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View Full Version : Next patch suggestions (not a complaint thread)


Homosexual Ewok
05-09-2002, 05:36 PM
1-Better audio clues on if you did or did not hit your opponent. When you are dueling and you and your opponent are using the same model it can be tough to tell who is doing the screaming when in close combat. Quake 3 had a system where if you got hit you would do your "pain scream", but if you hit your opponent it made a very distinctive "bonk" noise. I am not saying this should be the default setting, just a console toggle for those who want it.

2-Better visual conformation on hit detection. Once again, how many times have you been dueling and wondered, "was that my green bubble (shield getting hit) or his?" I am not suggesting a blood patch be integrated in to the game, just something simple like a quick white flash (I suggested white due to yellow/red/blue being colors used with various powers/items). 90% of all FPS's have this, or something like it.

Granted I know all you have to do is stare at your status bar each time you hear or see a strike, but that kind of leads to distraction and getting killed...

Crack 6K
05-09-2002, 06:32 PM
EXCELLENT points. These two are my major complaints other than the single player quicksave bug.

D.L.
05-09-2002, 06:38 PM
Actually the second point is very valid (though it doesn;t really need a patch perse)

JK2 has a small heath meter, where Quake3 eye had huge numbers.

Ther eis a way to edit the info bars containing this information. Email Raven about it.

ps2maddenman
05-09-2002, 08:22 PM
Homosexual Ewok hahahahahaha LMAO, I haven't laughed that hard at a screen name for months!

by the way, nice post.

Nill the Mean
05-09-2002, 08:41 PM
I'm all for the "bonk" sound. It was a good way to confirm a hit and it wasn't at all irritating. Maybe not the actual Q3 "bonk" but something a little more appropriate, or something...
Furthermore, I would like to see the saber clashing toned down a bit during attack animations. I'm not saying it should be nerfed, just toned down.
Make the blocking radius more narrow. Allow the player to block almost all attacks but still get knocked back if the full damage from the attack is blocked. You would then be open for attack for a split second (it already happens sometimes) so you would have to dodge the next one.
Make all attacks do more damage, apart from the backstab. I say about 30-50 range damage for light, 50-70 for medium and 70-90 for heavy.
Backstab needs to be toned down a bit. Right now it isn't hard to get away from the supposed "new lamers" but it isn't much fun to play against these people. After getting away from it for the millionth time today I was very suprised they weren't giving up :p.
A little less sparking when sabers touch would be nice too...
And add the fists to the MP game!

Just my two cents for what I would like to see in the next patch.

Sifo-Dyas
05-09-2002, 09:39 PM
1. Change back light/blue stance backstab so u can't move it.
It has turned into the new cheap move. Lots of ppl walking around backwards now :p

2. Disable saber throws on NO FORCE duel matches.
If there is no force than why can u throw a saber? :confused:
Doesn't make sense and VERY EXPLOITABLE.
I owned a server 15-0 because of it. My first shut-out ever :D

3. Weaken Lightning force a bit by slowing down the damage rate.
Either it's too strong or too fast.

4. Found a weird bug on the new Bespin Vanes map.
I was jousting between air currents againts someone.
We both clashed in mid air and fell to our deaths.
I died first and then my opponent but I ended up getting the win. :confused:

Overall patch is good! Keep up the good work Raven!

Prowl lightstar
05-09-2002, 09:57 PM
I think the "i've been hit" anims should be the same in MP as in SP i.e electrical field around the player. And i think the bubble abound the player should be closer to the player, and be the same colour as the persons lightsabre.

Sifo-Dyas
05-09-2002, 10:10 PM
Oh i forgot one more thing I would "wish" to see in the next patch.

How about enabling first person view (while holding a lightsaber) in MP! :fett:

HappyPrancer
05-09-2002, 10:16 PM
I think seeing needs the following tweaks:
shouldn't work on those carrying yasalamari/using absorb.
should have a bigger radius of effectiveness

-HP

The_Mormegil
05-09-2002, 10:27 PM
ok my view is that the dfa should be the strongest saber swing in the game, i like the way it only goes straight and the leaps length is arguable but it makes sense (2 me anyway).

Thats just my view and im not saying its any gospel or its gay any other way im just saying it makes sense to me.

Heal should be put back the way it was, kicking is to hard for me now, double tapping in a fight isnt worth it if u use spacebar to jump.

Thats all.

Ko'or Oragahn
05-10-2002, 12:35 AM
Anyway, don't force people. Let it be a server option, and votable btw.

EekTheKat
05-10-2002, 12:57 AM
How about slowing backpeddling speed? I think quite a lot of people have mentioned this before.

Just had a thought that this would effectively limit the effectiveness of the "backstab spaming" that so many people are now complaining about. If they can't move nearly as fast running into a battle backwards they run the risk of people catching up to them in the front + opening them up with a well placed slash.

Several people have mentioned slowing the backpeddling speed before on this board as well.....as I'm not too experienced with the run and gun game or CTF (I dig the saber fights much more) I'd like to hear some other type of players opinions on this tweak.

Maybe I'm just weird or something but, I really don't think the damage caused by the backstab or the sweep is too high. It's the risk that people take when they do these moves that's too low that makes them so abuse friendly.

Now before I go on I'd like to add that I think the backstab is by no means an "instant" death and guaranteed kill move. There's quite an inital windup a la the DFA that allows one to pretty easily read your opponents intentions and move out of the way. Just because your opponent overuses it doesn't mean that you have to stand there + eat it.

From watching a few FFA games today, the main problem is that in a heated 4 or 5 way saber fight someone always runs in and tries to cash in on some quick kills by catching the 4 or 5 people saberfighting off guard with it. In a one on one situation or a less hectic environment the backstab's effectiveness is very limited due to the high telegraphability of the move.

Also being able to use the mouselook to "sweep" the backstabbing saber while it's stabbing isn't good as well. If anything this feels a lot like back in the 1.02 days of being able to move + aim in midair while using the DFA. With the new saber collision code in 1.03 being able to sweep in a rather large arc with the backstab sort of allows one to manually block while facing backwards.

Another possibilty is to slow the recovery time of the backstab + swing some more.

The point is to make people realize what a risk it truly is to run into a saberfight with your back turned towards your opponent. If there were more risk involved in doing the various backstab/backslashes then I'd feel as though their high damage would be justified.

These suggestions would in fact make the backstab more in fact a finisher a la the DFA.

The_Mormegil
05-10-2002, 10:39 AM
heres another suggestion, I'd like saber throw to be better ie. not come back as soon as it hits one person. U should be able to hit a good few ppl with it b4 it comes back and the damage it does should be higher.

And u should be able to pull sabers out of the air if u have more force or higher pull than the guy who's thrown the saber.

Tenshu
05-10-2002, 10:46 AM
The angle of blocking is too wide. An effective block should be the result of skill (accurate aiming and positioning).

The damage is too low. If blocking area is decreased, and attack damage slightly increased, we may have a good duel balance.

Guns are too weak now. I suggest restore of pre-patch guns. But gunners should walk/run slower than saberists. So gunners = distance <---> saberists = speed. That'll balance the two.

Forces should have a greater chance of success against gunners.

Forces should be balanced. Pushing/pulling involves a great deal of luck, and a few of the previous over-effective powers have been made too weak (drain, heal,...)

Wicket the Ewok
05-10-2002, 11:02 AM
Wow, a constructive thread! This is a treasure!

I agree with most of the points here. Backpedalling should be slowed, heal needs too be a little more powerful (I think drain is fine personally), there needs to be more ammo for weapons, the block radius needs to be reduced to perhaps the front 180 degree arc and the light sabre damage needs to be upped for all modes apart from duel.

I think that's a list of needed changes personally. Other things I'd like to see are maybe an objective based mode for MP (like assault mode in UT or RtcW), more maps for all modes and a big pile of money. Although I'd settle for just the last one. ;)

rut-wa jodar
05-10-2002, 11:53 AM
how about getting Bots to accept private duels. I have tried with no success anyone managed to do it yet ?

Etz
05-10-2002, 12:20 PM
I'm going to add my stick to the pile :)

Lightsabers by their very definition are lethal weapons, if you get cut with one, something will most likely drop off. I can see the reasoning behind light, medium and heavy stances, but lets face it. Having to slash someone multiple times with a weapon that can cut through steel isn't exactly realistic, but then games rarely are.

Somebody (quite few somebodies actually) mentioned that the arch with blocking should be smaller, I whole heartetly agree. Should Raven change this it would be very good indeed. Also although I mentioned above that lightsaber damage isn't very realistic at the moment I also understand that one shot kills aren't that fun either. How ever I think that you should be able to kill a person with 3-4 hits max. Now with shields added it can really take forever to bring a guy down. I don't remember seeing any personal shields in the movies, do you? Originally in Darkforces shields were simply a cool way of replacing armor that was used in games like Doom at that time. How ever now I feel it's more like a relic from that past age where three dimensional enviroments were only dreamt of and if I could make the choice, I would take them off alltogether.

Now most of you will probably flame me for saying that, and of course it will never happen so save your breath. But think about it, that would change the game quite a bit and although guns might be overpowered the lightsaber combat in FFA games and similar would become a lot more interesting. More tweaking in stance damages and blocking would be needed of course to balance things out.

Perhaps it would be better if actual armor rating would replace shields. It would work out exactly as now, except that lightsabers would pass it by as falling damage and kicking does now. People have said that double clicking jump makes kicking harder, it does. But it's not funny to see somebody to use only kicks. And why not? When you kick you'll by pass all defenses and shields. Five hits and the person is dead unless he gets medkit or has heal. Kicking is almost more effective than using your saber because while you kick you can still use block (except when you're upside down in the air). Using armor instead of shields would have the additional benefit to make kick more of a tool than a weapon. You could still kick someone over but armor would take the worst damage off.

That's the kind of stuff I would like to see implemented. And maybe I will, with the ability to create mods perhaps enough people would like to see that happen to make it possible. Do you?

Wicket the Ewok
05-10-2002, 12:52 PM
Didn't those rolling droid things in episode I have personal shields?

:ewok:

Aiee
05-10-2002, 01:09 PM
An alternative to merely decreasing the blocking arc would be changing the amount of blocking depending on the anglethe saber hits the player in. That is, if someone hits right in front of you, that would be 0 degrees from center, and 100% would be blocked. If someone hits in a +/-30 degree angle (that would be slightly to the left or right), 70% of all attackes would be blocked. at 45 degrees (that would be halfway between dead center and either side, and still within a field where a skilled swordsman could reasonably deflect an attack), 45% would be blocked. at 90 degrees, or right on the side, 10% would be blocked etc.

This way, a player can still get lucky and deflect an attack, but they will be rewarded for greater accuracy.

Also, I know it's minor, but I'd like to see a feature from Alien vs Predator 2 be included; namely toggle keys. I know it's really minor, and I could probably script it if I wasn't too preoccupied with the exams and trying to get into university afterwards to learn QuakeC (I beleive that's what the sripting language is called). The most obvious of these toggles would eb a run/walk toggle, so I could slow down and keep more control of where I'm going in confined spaces. Currently, having to hold down an additional key, as well as having fingers free for moving, changing saber stance, using force, jumping and crouching can get a little problematic.

Etz
05-10-2002, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by Wicket the Ewok
Didn't those rolling droid things in episode I have personal shields?

Yes they did :)

But I haven't seen any human characters use them. Besides a droid that has its own powersource would probably sustain forcefield more easily than a human with a generator in a bagback :D

Desslock
05-10-2002, 03:07 PM
I myself would like Raven to do some more testing on the current Saber system, and see if the decision to put the SP damage and blocking system into MP was wise, and works, or if it may need some tweaking due to the difference in intellegence levels of NPCs vs. humans (Though some would argue otherwise :) ).

Since I am not a veteran game designer I cannot tell you what would be wrong besides my opinion, and that there is something that needs to be adjusted for MP because you are playing AI in SP and humans in MP, and therefore the mechanics might be different to hold a successful and well developed MP aspect, though I can't tell you exactly what needs to be adjusted because I don't have the experience or equipment to do so.

I think that needs to be done before any changes are implemented. Its only logical. Then, setup builds to test changes, and see if they work.

CheshireKat
05-10-2002, 03:16 PM
I hated the patch util I got playing it for a bit.

The only thing I don't like now is the kick. Kick was fine before, and almost useless now unless you cheat and put it on a double click.

Heal and Drain are perfect! And even a Grip whore like me knows that it's much better now. Not sure what to think of Absorb now though. Especially since Drain takes so much more FP now, it's a bit upsetting to use all your FP on someone who's absorbing.

But this game defenately needs a better hit sound!!! I had it down pat before the patch, but now I never know when I've hit someone. Bonk, like Q3's is very unfitting though. The SP shader is a good idea, but I think it would happen to you if you got shot too, and cuase alot of FPS troubles in FFA and such.

NK_Zephorath
05-10-2002, 03:41 PM
Restore guns to pre-patch. Gunning is absolute crap now, ctf is horribly lame.
Another suggestion, what about restoring saber animations and damage to pre-patch as well, but keeping the blocking? 1.03 sabers have too much reliance on luck and blindly slashing away at your opponent.

forethought
05-10-2002, 03:51 PM
Fix the running backwards speed.

Seriously, how many people can run the same speed backwards as they can in a full sprint?

Tenshu
05-11-2002, 04:41 AM
I 'm gonna bump this to make sure someone important wil see it...
(+ there's still room for more suggestions!)

*bump*

Crusader
05-11-2002, 07:21 AM
Suggestions:

1) Ability to bind a specific saber stance to a key. (Yes, I know there are scripts to approximate this but if possible I'd like the 100% certainty of binding a button to a builtin command :) ). eg bind x "lightstance"

2) Ability to configure force powers (not controls for force powers) when not connected to a server. Its annoying to have to create your own server just to be able to allocate powers and save configs. Have a selector for force mastery level on the config screen so you can go through each level, configure your powers, save the config and move on, instead of having to waste time on a server (even if it is loopback) doing the same.

That, or a quick document detailing which powers are which in forceconfig files so they can be handedited ahead of time.

BugFix:
3) Once g_synchronousclients 1 has been turned on, doing /record on its own boots you from a server with an error message. 100% reproduceable. It creates a demo000.dm_15 etc. file but its only ~6Kb long, should create a new demo file in the series demo000-demo999 and continue recording until /stoprecord is entered or server is left.

Chastan
05-11-2002, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Crusader

2) Ability to configure force powers (not controls for force powers) when not connected to a server. Its annoying to have to create your own server just to be able to allocate powers and save configs. Have a selector for force mastery level on the config screen so you can go through each level, configure your powers, save the config and move on, instead of having to waste time on a server (even if it is loopback) doing the same.

More like the JKI system (sort of), I think is what you mean. Good point.

Crusader
05-11-2002, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by Chastan


More like the JKI system (sort of), I think is what you mean. Good point.

I don't remember JK1 very well :D

What I meant is that, at the moment, the only way you can get to the "configure force powers" screen, is to join a server, or create a server.
Everything else about the player can be configured without connecting to a server at all.

Its not really a major thing to have to create your own server just to do this, but seems an obvious part missing from "offline" config :)

Prowl lightstar
05-11-2002, 09:05 AM
In order to address the fact that certain moves are "whored", i suggest the following:

Either, Special moves (DFA, Backstab, etc use alot of force power to pull of)

OR

Have a secondary "power bar" that fills up as you build up combos and hits. And each "special move uses so much of this bar.

Aoshi
05-11-2002, 09:29 AM
I would like to see a manual blocking enabled. This would greatly reduce the time it takes to saber duel (unless you and your opponent are equally skilled) cause when i play MP i normally play on servers with guns and it gets kinda unfair when the person with the most explosives always gets the most kills. It simply takes too long to saber people with the blocking system as it is right now and while it may take a minute or more to saber someone it takes a whole two seconds to just rocket them both. In this aspect i think that guns are superior to lightsabers when they really shouldnt be (i think they should be about equal maybe with lightsabers even a bit stronger). Thus i think a manual block should be incorporated so that there are a few rules to it but it's not overly difficult
- you can be standing still or moving (but if you are moving blocking is slightly reduced % wise)
-you must be facing your opponent or at a 90 degree angle (but if you are at a 90 degree angle and the enemy attacks from the side opposite of your saber you cannot block)
-if you are attacked from the back or open side you will take more damage (this is where light/med stances could do more damage)
-bullets ect would be auto block like normal.
-while holding a weapon all damage from back/sides is increased (except for lightsaber in which the arm that you carry your lightsaber{as long as it is ignited} is capable of blocking{bullet fire would still be blocked like it is now in the little arc}
-blocking would depend on the stance that you are currently using ~heavy would block all, med would block light/med and 50% chance to block heavy, light would block only light with 50% chance to block med. this way people couldnt just use light to block and quickly ripost all of the time.
-blocking when someone shoots you with an explosive weapon reduces damage a bit. (this way if you become really good at blocking you can just use forcepush/block and overcome the explosive spammers)

I also have my opinions of the new force powers. I dont like it that Raven disabled running while gripping. I dont really think that is fair. Heal should be made a bit better. Drain is ok... maybe even it out with lightning so that if someone lightnings me i can drain them at the same time and not lose health. I think force powers were better in .02 but that is just me. I also agree with the gunners in that there should be more ammo on the maps (though i like the current setup of weapon consumption). Anyways these are just my opinions feel free to disagree with me if you please.

Tenshu
05-11-2002, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by Aoshi
I would like to see a manual blocking enabled. This would greatly reduce the time it takes to saber duel (unless you and your opponent are equally skilled) cause when i play MP i normally play on servers with guns and it gets kinda unfair when the person with the most explosives always gets the most kills. It simply takes too long to saber people with the blocking system as it is right now and while it may take a minute or more to saber someone it takes a whole two seconds to just rocket them both. In this aspect i think that guns are superior to lightsabers when they really shouldnt be (i think they should be about equal maybe with lightsabers even a bit stronger). Thus i think a manual block should be incorporated so that there are a few rules to it but it's not overly difficult
- you can be standing still or moving (but if you are moving blocking is slightly reduced % wise)
-you must be facing your opponent or at a 90 degree angle (but if you are at a 90 degree angle and the enemy attacks from the side opposite of your saber you cannot block)
-if you are attacked from the back or open side you will take more damage (this is where light/med stances could do more damage)
-bullets ect would be auto block like normal.
-while holding a weapon all damage from back/sides is increased (except for lightsaber in which the arm that you carry your lightsaber{as long as it is ignited} is capable of blocking{bullet fire would still be blocked like it is now in the little arc}
-blocking would depend on the stance that you are currently using ~heavy would block all, med would block light/med and 50% chance to block heavy, light would block only light with 50% chance to block med. this way people couldnt just use light to block and quickly ripost all of the time.
-blocking when someone shoots you with an explosive weapon reduces damage a bit. (this way if you become really good at blocking you can just use forcepush/block and overcome the explosive spammers)


I'm against. Manual blocking would make things extremely complicated. These 2 posts are what blocking should be like (in my humble opinion):

Originally posted by Tenshu
The angle of blocking is too wide. An effective block should be the result of skill (accurate aiming and positioning).

Originally posted by Aiee
An alternative to merely decreasing the blocking arc would be changing the amount of blocking depending on the anglethe saber hits the player in. That is, if someone hits right in front of you, that would be 0 degrees from center, and 100% would be blocked. If someone hits in a +/-30 degree angle (that would be slightly to the left or right), 70% of all attackes would be blocked. at 45 degrees (that would be halfway between dead center and either side, and still within a field where a skilled swordsman could reasonably deflect an attack), 45% would be blocked. at 90 degrees, or right on the side, 10% would be blocked etc.

B0rG
05-11-2002, 10:14 AM
Here's my wishlist for an updated patch for JK2.

1: Make the alt-fire for the bowcaster travel faster
2: Restore weapons back to previous glory (not because I notice much difference after the patch, but obviously many of the hardcore CTFers do, and they don't seem too impressed. Given I plan to be making more CTF maps than anything else, I'd like those players to be around when I release them.
3: Reveal how much health your opponent had when you die in duels.
4: As much limb dismemberment as possible. At least this way, long and drawn out battles (which are now more common) will be more satisfactory to the eventual winner.
5: More skill injected into the process of blocking somehow. I don't see the sense of any player being able to block anything whilst they aren't even sitting at their PC.
6: Improved means of knowing if you actually hit your enemy and some sort of clue as to how much it hurt them (much like Q2/Q3 had different pain shrieks depending on how low the players health became as a result of the injury.
7: Spawning with saber off in duel matches.
8: A slight decrease in movement speed for each new weapon picked up. This is one way to inspire a little more reliance on the saber, or at a bit less weapon tanking at least.
9: The ability to drop weapons. Not only to ensure players don't get inadvertantly bogged down with too many weapons if they don't want them, as well as spicing up the strategical possibilities of CTF matches.
10: Last but certainly not least, some way of forcing particular models for Team FFA and CTF matchs, depending on whether the player elects to play red of blue. Imperial models only for red, rebel models for blue. This will match existing CTF texture colour sets and give team based games a much more realistic STar Wars experience. ie: A lavish imperial base will be guarded by imperial looking players. Much better :D

Oh, and the ability to specify this within the editor would be awesome. Oh, and multiple brush face selection for the editor would be dandy.

Assault3000
05-11-2002, 10:28 AM
Who would WANT the bonk sound? Well I suppose it is better than a gonk sound but still, that was the most annoying part of quake 3. That and other reasons are why I stuck to Unreal Tournament.

HertogJan
05-11-2002, 10:39 AM
An alternative to merely decreasing the blocking arc would be changing the amount of blocking depending on the anglethe saber hits the player in. That is, if someone hits right in front of you, that would be 0 degrees from center, and 100% would be blocked. If someone hits in a +/-30 degree angle (that would be slightly to the left or right), 70% of all attackes would be blocked. at 45 degrees (that would be halfway between dead center and either side, and still within a field where a skilled swordsman could reasonably deflect an attack), 45% would be blocked. at 90 degrees, or right on the side, 10% would be blocked etc.

Yeah that would be cool :) I think most of the ideas here are good, but I have one bug I'd like to see fixed in SinglePlay!

You see, I don't know if anyone else has this, but it seems that JK2 only displays a limited number of saves. When your list is full, you games ARE saved, but you can't load them. You have to delete older saves to see them again...

Okay I know that deleting some saves isn't hard, but I still would like to have it fixed... Did any of you have the same problem? I don't know if I'm right though...

Tenshu
05-11-2002, 10:57 AM
Originally posted on JKII.net's main page

We see that the patch has made some people unhappy, but I'm told that Raven is addressing people's concerns, including server issues.

Raven is addressing people's concerns?

*bump*

Be sure to read this thread through then!

Skarfays
05-11-2002, 01:44 PM
make everything the way it was during 1.02 except make the hit detection/box/range/whatever better. THAT IS IT. what happened with this patch was that raven did the right thing but made it so right that it went wrong.

Trannyn Covnant
05-11-2002, 01:59 PM
I think the Lightsaber combat system and Guns should be restored to the way they were in 1.02. And this may seem like a stupid question but what is dfa?

Tenshu
05-11-2002, 03:34 PM
How about this: There should be more special moves. But in order to perform these moves, the player would have to enter a certain key combo really fast (like back, back, attack; back, for, jump, attack;... ; think Mortal Kombat. You had to work for your moves there.)

For every special move you make, you'll have to wait a few seconds to perform a special move again.

Chastan
05-11-2002, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by Aiee
Also, I know it's minor, but I'd like to see a feature from Alien vs Predator 2 be included; namely toggle keys....

There are two ways I've implemented crouch toggle here (with the help of a friend ;) ):

1. Use a different key for normal stance and crouch stance
set crouch "toggleconsole ; +movedown ; wait ; toggleconsole"
set stand "toggleconsole ; -movedown ; wait ;toggleconsole"
bind CTRL "vstr crouch"
bind ALT "vstr stand"
2. Toggle between crouching and standing
set crouch "toggleconsole ; +movedown ; wait ; toggleconsole; set ctog vstr stand"
set stand "toggleconsole ; -movedown ; wait ;toggleconsole; set ctog vstr crouch"
set ctog "vstr crouch"
bind CTRL "vstr ctog"

To bind a key to toggle between always run/walk
bind SHIFT "toggle cl_run"


If you need more help with this PM me or make another thread or something.

UsEr-X-
05-11-2002, 03:59 PM
Thanks for those tips Chastan they are definetly useful!

Father Ruckus
05-11-2002, 04:53 PM
i had an idea for the not being able to tell if you got a hit or not. I was thinking you barrow the console RPG system. so say i slash a guy and hurt him for 25 damage, have a box that displays how much, or have 25 float up above the opponent. might work.