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View Full Version : How to make a patch everyone hates


HappyPrancer
05-09-2002, 09:09 PM
As most of you know, there has been a lot of negative feedback about the latest patch.

Let's look at some of the changes they made:

DFA move is worse
Heavy stance is slower
grip is slower
some weapons take more ammo
drain takes more power
heal gives less health...

They made so many things worse, but made very little better. The only thing I can name off the top of my head is that light stance is faster(I think).

I don't have a problem with them changing things, but at least give us something thats better than it was.

If you make a move do less damage, make it faster.
If you make a move slower, make it do more damage.
You get the idea. Balancing can be done not only by making strong moves worse, but by making weaker moves better.

No wonder the patch got such a crappy reception, they took everything , made it worse, and gave us nothing in return

-HP

UsEr-X-
05-09-2002, 09:23 PM
Your a retard HappyPrancer, just cause you cant do your cheap moves anymore, why don't you take the time to learn how to play it now that it has beenupdated and is MUCH better! And stop pulling all that stuff outof your ass it says no where on notes they changed that stuff!

Whatup1049-:p

Zek
05-09-2002, 09:51 PM
It's too bad a large majority of the community favors this patch, HappyPrancer, according to the polls. I'm sure the percentage is even larger except that the rest of them are off playing the damn game.

Darksider
05-09-2002, 09:53 PM
DFA move is worse
Heavy stance is slower
grip is slower
some weapons take more ammo
drain takes more power
heal gives less health...


Not one of those things is bad.

Whats the opposite of a fanboy? Oh yea, a dickhead. Go away prancer.

HappyPrancer
05-09-2002, 10:11 PM
seems everyone's wound a bit tight.

YOu'll note that I did not give an opinion of the patch, merely hypothesized about why there was so much negative feedback. In addition, all of my critisism was constructive. I gave suggestions on how to make a good patch. One would think with all the mindless whining on these forums, a little constructive critisism would be appreciated.

And to anyone who says the majority of the community like the patch, I beg to differ. Try reading a post or two in the official patch thread.

-HP

Darksider
05-09-2002, 10:38 PM
And to anyone who says the majority of the community like the patch, I beg to differ. Try reading a post or two in the official patch thread.


Thats because whiners are always the loudest. The quiet majority love the patch.

Lord Sokar
05-09-2002, 10:40 PM
Originally posted by Darksider
Thats because whiners are always the loudest. The quiet majority love the patch.

Bull****.

Darksider
05-09-2002, 10:42 PM
Plus they are off actually playing the game while the whiners are posting here about how crap the patch is.

spamburger
05-09-2002, 10:46 PM
Originally posted by HappyPrancer
seems everyone's wound a bit tight.


after the plethora of go-nowhere 1.03-smells-like-bad-fish posts, i'm sure you can understand why.


YOu'll note that I did not give an opinion of the patch


you pointed out a series of changes they made, and then suggested that these were "making things worse". Throw me in with Darksider here. I think the changes they made were great. Not only the balancing issues, but also the enhanced saber play.

So either you DID submit an opinion, or you were merely taking the position of someone who hated the patch, and thus disregarding any rationality. you seem to have done a nice job in this regard.


And to anyone who says the majority of the community like the patch, I beg to differ. Try reading a post or two in the official patch thread.


This is only slightly more meaningless than a poll.

Borf
05-09-2002, 10:51 PM
stfu

the patch owns

SpaceMonkey1315
05-09-2002, 10:59 PM
DFA move is worse
Heavy stance is slower
grip is slower
some weapons take more ammo
drain takes more power
heal gives less health

yeah, ok, now tell me whats wrong with ANY of these...DFA move is worse, when the only way to make that more powerful would be to freeze the person in their tracks while their being attacked

Heavy stance is supposed to be slow...why would you make an attack stance that deals that much damage faster, so you can make the kills cheaper and easier?

Grip is slower, so what, when it was fast, all people did was use it to get out of any situation with a catwalk leading into a chasm

Some weapons take more ammo, well, assuming your one of the people who believes that the most fair way to play is to abuse the hell out of the alt fire repeater, then i guess that WOULD be a problem.

Drain takes more power, and that couldnt be any better. drain was the easiest way to break out of ANY low health situation, leaving the other person defenseless, which was undoubtly a cheap move to be able to steal force, add health, and be able to kill them way too easier.

heal gives less health...and this is a problem to whom, people who repeately hit the "force key" while in a deul, assuming that any damage they take is automaticly replaced with only about a quarter of your force taken up?

i can guess that you must be one of the cheapest players alive, if all of these are such horrible things, when all they do is balance the game for the better, think about it.

Space Monkey

:mob:

Zek
05-09-2002, 11:26 PM
Yes, the majority does like the patch. Screw what topics you see on the first page; whiners are more likely to moan about why they hate it than fans are to rant about why they like it. The "Do you like the patch or not" polls generally are winning on the Yes side by at least a 2:1 margin, and I have never seen a poll with the No option in the lead.

SpaceMonkey1315
05-09-2002, 11:33 PM
well put, of course, its my opinion that most people who hate this patch are the people who (and they know it) spam the hell out of every cheap move they can find, and raven did a good job of finding what was annoying, and eliminating it

Space Monkey

HappyPrancer
05-09-2002, 11:56 PM
Just to interject,

I'd like to explain what I meant by worse. I meant it is worse to use, less effective. The value of these moves has been reduced.

Regardless of how that affects multiplayer, I don't like having the value of anything reduced. If anything other moves should be made more usefull.

continue

-HP

Borf
05-09-2002, 11:57 PM
ah yes, the days of dfa whores are over...

drallvekk
05-10-2002, 12:07 AM
CONS:

they removed all the medium stance moves

the backstab is to powerfull

less damage, it takes to long to kill someone (boring)

very limited hit indication

the hit range seems a bit too extended in every stance (unrealistic)

allows saber throw (as an option) in no force duel



PROS:

no more death from above spam

nice force adjustments

fixed some minor interface issues on the multi screen select

the ingame chat pop up box is cool (although it is over used)


the patch was a step in the right direction but all they had to do to the saber system was take out the dfa spam

Spider AL
05-10-2002, 12:16 AM
I'm not sure any of you (except Drall and Happy) truly understand the patch yet... there are two or three new cheap moves, that will win any player the game. The object of the patch was to eliminate such cheap moves, but instead it has nerfed a lot of stuff like gunplay and drain/heal, instead of beefing up the WEAK bits. It's made EVERYTHING weak. Except the three cheap moves, of course.

I will play ANY of you in FF Duel or FFA, and win using the three new cheap moves. I don't WANT to use these cheap moves, but when I'm under pressure to win, I will use them, because my rivals use them to win also. What I wanted from this patch was no cheap moves, no drain-spamming, no DFA turning subterranian damage... But I've got a boring three move game instead. Make no mistake, it's easier to spam the new cheap moves than it was to spam the old cheap moves.

That's why this patch, is not good.

Aiee
05-10-2002, 12:20 AM
Well I, for one, have complete faith that Raven will do something about the backstabs in 1.04. They listened to what people were asking for (less heal/drain spamming. Less powerful DFA. Less alt-fire repeater spaming) for 1.03, and I wouldn't be surprised if they're going to do the same for subsequent patches.

Zek
05-10-2002, 12:21 AM
Spider, that has nothing to do with it. Both versions have their cheap overpowered moves. No one's denying it; we're just going to have to wait for them to fix the remaining exploitable moves in the next patch. However, the amount of these moves has been drastically reduced since 1.02, which means it should be considered an improvement in that regard.

Spider AL
05-10-2002, 12:22 AM
Heal and Drain were over-nerfed however. Neither of them are ANY use now, instead of just having their power taken down a notch or two, which is what they needed.

(edit)

Zek, perhaps you haven't noticed the completely spanking brand-new cheap moves yet, but believe me, their proliferation will be swift. It's depressing.

(/edit)

Zek
05-10-2002, 12:24 AM
Originally posted by Spider AL
Heal and Drain were over-nerfed however. Neither of them are ANY use now, instead of just having their power taken down a notch or two, which is what they needed.

Not true at all. They're both very useful in duels; they're more just supplements rather than the driving force that keeps you alive. No single force power should be as necessary as those two were before.

Aiee
05-10-2002, 12:26 AM
you know, I did the pull+backstab combo back in 1.02 on occasion. worked just as well then, it was just overshadowed by DFA.

I still find heal and drain useful, though. I think the idea that someone should be able to fully heal on a single mana charge, be it with drain or heal is almost as bad as giving people god mode. As long as a player stays out of harms way, they can quickly get any and all lost health back that way.

Spider AL
05-10-2002, 12:26 AM
No single force power should be as necessary as those two were before.

That's entirely your opinion. However, it's worth noting that the one-hit-kill methods I employed to win duels before the patch, are EVEN more effective now. I've tried them you know. Darksiders now have no defence against me at all. Imbalance has been created, hence the patch is not a step in the right direction.

Zek
05-10-2002, 12:31 AM
Spider, there is only one really cheap tactic in the game now. Before, there were plenty... DFA, Heavy backslash(same as now),
Drain/Grip, Drain/Anything, Heal whoring... Nothing's been added, only taken away. I fail to understand how you consider the backslash tactic so much easier to do now, though.

Aiee
05-10-2002, 12:36 AM
It's because noone will DFA him while he's running around backwards now ;]

Spider AL
05-10-2002, 12:48 AM
Spider, there is only one really cheap tactic in the game now.

This is nonsense, born of unobservant mentality. There are at least THREE cheap tactics. The 1 hit kill, the standing still and letting your opponent damage themselves sufficiently that one shot from a gun will kill them, and the headless chicken accidental kill rush. People win FFA duels in groups in two ways, the backstabs and the headless chicken rush. Neither takes any skill, but I use both, because I'm FORCED to, because sadly, they are the most effective moves on the board. Yes, they're cheap, but when everyone does them, to win, you must do them too.

I fail to understand how you consider the backslash tactic so much easier to do now, though.

Then let me spell it out for you, Drain has been nerfed. Without the power of Drain, darksiders can no longer resist my one-hit-kill tactics, because I can hold them immobile with impunity.

GooglyMoogly
05-10-2002, 12:59 AM
"cheap moves"

They will probably always exist in thsi game and the answer is simple....DON'T OVER-USE THEM!!!!. I was playing a little while ago and the whole time (1.5 hrs) I used the backstab 3 times (only 1 ended in death). I took maybe 4 heavy swings total...and never once used the crouching uppercut. See how easy that was?

Sure I didn't win any games but who cares? The fights I had for the most part were fun and exciting. There were several other players just ganking around using backstab/crouch uppercut etc... yeah their scores were awesome, but I just can't see how they can consider that fun.

The WHOLE POINT of MP fighting with real people versus bots is that PEOPLE are unpredictable BOTS are much more predictable. Based on what I've seen there are MANY players out there that have LESS skill than BOTS!!!

If you're gonna do nothing but spam cheap moves you might as well just write a script that fights for you. This way you can sit back and watch the show without having to lift a finger!!!

Spider AL
05-10-2002, 01:06 AM
"cheap moves" They will probably always exist in thsi game and the answer is simple....DON'T OVER-USE THEM!!!!.

My aim in FFA is to win, friend. To kill the most people in the least amount of time. Now, when there is nobody on the server who equals my level of play, certainly I don't resort to cheap moves. But when someone appears who is a comparable player to myself, I must use cheap moves, as they also will use them.

I wish that cheap moves be removed. But I also wish that all Force Powers have a use, that both the light and dark sides be balanced, and that sabre fights be a matter of skill even in FFA. Currently not all Force Powers have a use, the dark side is weaker than the light and currently sabre fights in FFA are not a matter of general sabreing skill, but instead a matter of backswinging and headless-chickening one's way to victory.

I win. I win, by using the appropriate techniques... but even I can see that some of those techniques are cheap, and I therefore wish that they be removed, and/or the balance of force be restored. It was purdy good in 1.02 in my opinion.

FW_anty_kryste
05-10-2002, 02:21 AM
i agree, and always have, with the simple notion of playing for fun instead of points. if you think a move is cheap... don't use it. if you don't like others using it... avoid them. nobody says you have to walk up behind somebody, and having the ability to NOT end up behind an opponent in a duel is no different than the ability to NOT always be directly in front of an opponent. if you want to avoid being shot, don't stand in front of the gun, right? evasion is half of a duel. if it was just attack, attack, and attack some more, then everybody would end up looking like swiss cheese, because nobody would ever think to dodge or weave. do boxers glue their feet to the floor and just take turns punching each other (with the exception of power hitters like tyson)? anyone can exploit a move or combo for sake of winning above all else, but as Googly said.. you may as well write yourself a script to play for you. any DF2:JK veterans know that the fact that we HAVE options in saber battles is a HUGE advantage in JK2 over the previous swing, double swing. in fact, the best thing to happen to JK was the SBX patch, and i'd be willing to bet money that the Raven/LEC guys had that patch in mind when devising the JK2 combat options. in JK2, same as in SBX, we have the wonderful ability to dodge attacks via jumps and rolls. if anyone comes at you with a strong (aka: slow) swing, and you CAN'T get out of the way before getting hit, then you aren't paying attention, or you don't know how to dance the dance. a good multiplayer game has nothing to do with these debates surrounding the JK2v1.03 patch, a good mp game has to do with the multiple players in the game... good people make a good game... cheap, sorry bastards make a cheap, sorry game.

Vanor
05-10-2002, 02:36 AM
Originally posted by drallvekk
CONS:

they removed all the medium stance moves

the backstab is to powerfull

less damage, it takes to long to kill someone (boring)

very limited hit indication

Everything you listed above is actualy untrue.

The only thing they took out of medium stance, is the ablity to keep spining in the same direction.

The backstab hasn't changed in the least in this patch, it's the same as it was in 1.02.

The only time sabers do less damage is in heavy stance, and only at the very beiging and very end of the move.

And it seems even clearer now to me then before when I hit someone.