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View Full Version : Hey Raven, I hope you have learned a lesson here.


w1ggl3s
05-09-2002, 11:11 PM
Next time Beta test with a large amount of your gamers over a broad spectrum of the styles of jk2 before puting in such a game changing patch.

Ive been gaming for six years. Tired of this nonsense.

Eq sucked at it, Uo sucked at it.. DaoC have been the first orginized beta testing of up and comming patches that ive seen thats been consistent.. Heck they removed one patch cause it sucked so bad from beta testing and went back and worked on it again.

Get a clue Raven.

Oh, and next game put a cd check and some other id on it.. maybe ya wont lose so much money to hackers.

And yes I spent my 50 bucks on a game that Ruled. But has lost its touch.

Ive never been so captivated by a fps in MUltiplayer. Now i can barely stand to load up All seeing eye.

I expect a bit more customer service out of ya guys next time before ya throw a patch at us . And for gods sake make a way so that we can go back to a patch before and test out the differences.

Return to 1.02!

Ctf / team dm saber/force only have suffered greatly with this new auto block crap.

Wiggles

Woodster2003
05-09-2002, 11:22 PM
Play a little longer bud. I was really mad at first once the patch came out, but i got used to the medium style, and its really good now. I still hate the guns, but sabers are pretty good now. Also, mess around with the light side powers now, theyre pretty good. Just a suggestion.

SpaceMonkey1315
05-09-2002, 11:24 PM
my god, how many of these useless "anti patch" threads are we going to have to go through before we realize that it is a GOOD PATCH if your serious about playing...if you just want to spam, them by all means, stick with the other version, but if you want to play like your in jedi knight, then learn to cope with a good patch

Space Monkey

Aiee
05-09-2002, 11:24 PM
Know what the really sad thing is? If they made a 1.04 patch that reverted everything back to the way it was in 1.02, I'd probably be a "whiner" and stick to 1.03 ;]

I just enjoy the changes too damn much

Norvolt
05-09-2002, 11:26 PM
Spend some time with this patch you will realize that yes some things have change for the worse but there are still many improvments that have come about because of it. I am sorry you feel this way. See ya in CTF.

DannyJAllTheWay
05-09-2002, 11:28 PM
Yeah, they should have really made it so that ALL of us would be happy. We should have whined some more and then they could have made the patch all better by fixing all of our problems. Then, we wouldn't have any problems with the game and we could have just played happily along without a care in the world. La la la la la. Oh, no! There is something that I don't like about this game. WAAHHHHHHHHHHH! I can't work around this. I had better go complain in the forums and then when they do make the patch, they will have to try to please all of us. But they failed didn't they? They were unable to please all of us. N00bs! Gay llamas! :mad:

(I was being sarcastic. For all those people who are out there that would have taken this seriously and then quoted me saying, "See, See. This patch sucks and this guy agrees with me!!! Hey, look. I don't need to wear diapers anymore.")

SpaceMonkey1315
05-09-2002, 11:36 PM
the only people i'm complaining about are the people who cry because they know raven eliminated their cheap moves

regardless what game you play, there is always people who dont play for fun, they play to win, and it is annoying, but you cant get around it

Zodiac
05-09-2002, 11:37 PM
hmm.. you people could also think:"why are those people complaining that much?".

Just look at all those people who don't like the patch. Do you think they enjoy whining? No of course not. Please look beyond your own enjoyment and try looking at it from their point of view.

It's like episode one: Initially every Star Wars fan made lots of excuses why the movie was great, and a lot of people thought it wasn't good from the start. And after a while all rational Star Wars fans came to the same conclusion: the movie wasn't fantastic and Jar Jar wasn't funny.

A lot of people like the patch, but there are also a LOT (And I'm talking about a LOT) of people who dislike it.

And with that many people disliking it: are they all wrong? I don't think so.

PurplWulf
05-09-2002, 11:38 PM
I suspect if Raven has been reading the forums they have learned a lesson, and that lesson would be:

don't try ever try to put out support for a game, because the community is filled with people who can only think of themselves, and the way they want the game to play, and will be ungrateful bastards.

I expect a bit more customer service out of ya guys next time before ya throw a patch at us

let's see, they answer hundreds/thousands of emails about a game they've ALREADY sold us, they come to these forums and read thru this endless bull****, they actually take the time to replay to some of said bull****, then they put out free patches....I repeat FREE patches to fix aspects of the game that the community has complained about. they plan to release the source code for MP so that others in the community can code in as many changes as they want to satisfy every little wet dream a player could have about the game, but that's not good enough for you.

I wanna know who you've been doing business with, because if you get that kind of glowing customer service from them on a product you already bought and can't return, I would love to meet them and do business with them myself.

the purple one

w1ggl3s
05-09-2002, 11:47 PM
If the world was perfect i wouldnt be posting here.

If raven had a clue I wouldnt be posting here.

If 1.03 didnt suck so much , i wouldnt be posting here.

I am not a duelest, I find no enjoyment in watching and waiting my turn so i can spin in circles hoping to hit some guy spinning in circles.


I enjoy the chaos and competitive nature of CTF.

I am a team player. THis new patch destroyed that.

making it hard to kill people quickly and effeciently.

You guys complain about the lack of skills i some how now have because i dislike your duel patch that ya got.

Duels are easy.. You face the same situation over and over and over again.

Come play a real mans game when ya never know if yer gonna get saberd from behind or what the next guy has cfgerd as his force pwrs.

What your missing here is the fact that in DUels You dont get to go for health like in ctf.

So as you whittle away at your oponent in Duels it turns into a waiting game for a small mistake...

Thats all and fine untill ya get to ctf saber/force only matches

Where the guy you been fighting can sudenly run off and get 100 health 100 armor all of a sudden and all u can do is run behind him and watch as he blocks all your moves.

In all fairness someone has to see my point.

I have to deel with the same amout of Bs raven has to in my day to day life.

Its not like the bs they are getting thrown smells any worse then the stuff i gotta deel with.
I played with the 1.03 patch for six straight hours.

I had such a head ache i could barely operate the next day.

Its very frustrating to fight the same guy you competly owned the day before. and watch as all your perfectly timed shots are harmlessly blocked by some moron you schooled the day before 100 times.

1.03 might have made no force saber duels fun.

but everything else sucks

Wig

Aiee
05-09-2002, 11:50 PM
Well said PurplWulf. (Notice I spelt your name correctly. It is a rare occurance fo rme to get someone elses alias correct ;))

Speaking of customer support, why does it feel like I'm the only person who noticed that not only did they fix balancing issues (DFA) and go through the trouble of doing large revisions based on what the community wished (the saber blocking. (Yes, a week ago, you could pick 5-6 different threads from the front page, asking that mp sabers be more like sp sabers at any given time)).

They also went and gave us, the community, 4 new maps. That's correct, not only did they try to fix the game, they also ADDED to it. Noone were asking for them to make more maps in the next patch, but they did go ahead and give us added content.

That's what I call customer support. Those who played JK1 and MotS will probably remember that ever since Jedi Knight (the original) was released back in late 1997, Lucasarts did not post a single patch, sdk, map, model or feature to the community. Within a month, Raven has replied to several questions in the forums here. They have released a map editor (and even before the map editor was released, Chang offered to compile any and all maps sent to him to work with JK2). They have replied to countless emails, and now they've released a patch whose largest changes are taken directly from requests made in this very forum.

I was taken by surprise by the changes to the lightsabers as well, but after 4 rounds of duels to 15, on each of the 4 new maps, I felt comfortable with the lightsaber again.

Con. Snake
05-09-2002, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by w1ggl3s
If the world was perfect i wouldnt be posting here.

If raven had a clue I wouldnt be posting here.

If 1.03 didnt suck so much , i wouldnt be posting here.If you weren't a complete and utter retard that is horribly frightened of change you wouldn't be posting here.

The only bad thing about the patch seems to be isolated just to me. Ever since I updated it says my CD isn't in the drive. Open the drive, and the cd is sitting right ****ing there. That's it.

You have to realise, this is LucasArts' and Raven's game. Not yours. You have absolute no say in the matter, therefore all threads by you and your fellow retards mean exactly jack and ****. You have no choice but to accept they're decision on the matter.

Sit down, Shut the **** up, And enjoy the ride.

Aiee
05-09-2002, 11:59 PM
That's what they're doing, Snake. Only, some of them are screeching, just like that annoying 10-year-old girl sitting right behind you in a rollercoaster ride, that nearly makes your ears bleed ;]

Zodiac
05-10-2002, 12:00 AM
People'd take your post serious if you'd leave out the personal insults. :( Cursing and insulting don't help to help others understand your point of view.

w1ggl3s
05-10-2002, 12:01 AM
Ah yes. the you have no say arguement.

Which realy meens.. You have a valid point so the only arguement imma say against you is that yer stupid and they own the game.

Thanks.. COme again

Con. Snake
05-10-2002, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by w1ggl3s
Ah yes. the you have no say arguement.

Which realy meens.. You have a valid point so the only arguement imma say against you is that yer stupid and they own the game.

Thanks.. COme again No, your lack of intelligence is becoming clear. It means "The game developers are under no obligations what so ever to make even one single patch. They do so on their own accord, and what they choose to do in the patch is only what they feel like doing.

It is a FACT, you have NO say what so ever, how hard is this to understand? There are MILLIONS of things you have no say in. It is a fact (http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=fact). If you cannot understand a simple concept such as you are not the omnipotent best of the best end all god, you are nothing but one single individual 100-200 pound sack of decaying flesh.

To the powers that be, you are nothing just as I, Only I, unlike you, have accepted these facts of life. Only once you accept these facts can you truely begin to live. Get a job, and move out of mommy's basement. Grow the **** up.

And this kiddie brings us back to the topic. You have no say. And until you have a ****load of money, you never will. So once again, Sit down, Shut the **** up, and enjoy the ride.

Aiee
05-10-2002, 12:23 AM
Well, he's alive enough to type, so his flesh cannot be decaying yet. Don't let the smell fool you ;P

geronimo27
05-10-2002, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by Con. Snake
No, your lack of intelligence is becoming clear. It means "The game developers are under no obligations what so ever to make even one single patch. They do so on their own accord, and what they choose to do in the patch is only what they feel like doing.

It is a FACT, you have NO say what so ever, how hard is this to understand? There are MILLIONS of things you have no say in. It is a fact (http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=fact). If you cannot understand a simple concept such as you are not the omnipotent best of the best end all god, you are nothing but one single individual 100-200 pound sack of decaying flesh.

To the powers that be, you are nothing just as I, Only I, unlike you, have accepted these facts of life. Only once you accept these facts can you truely begin to live. Get a job, and move out of mommy's basement. Grow the **** up.

And this kiddie brings us back to the topic. You have no say. And until you have a ****load of money, you never will. So once again, Sit down, Shut the **** up, and enjoy the ride.

Wow, you may have resigned yourself to the fact that your are meaningless sack of crap, and I am sure you fully live up to that as well, but most of us feel, and know, differently. Also, we DO have a say in anything we want. It doesn't mean others will take our ideas and run with them, or that they will even listen, or even that there may be negative consequences in things that we say, but we have a say in EVERYTHING.


Furthermore, if Raven is like most of the other gaming companies, and so far they seem to be following that trend, I am pretty sure they will not learn a lesson.

I can't wait to see what nerfs 1.04 brings about.

Ae0N
05-10-2002, 01:05 AM
Originally posted by w1ggl3s
Hey Raven, I hope you have learned a lesson here.



They did nothing wrong, there are more people that like the patch than there are that don't. The reason you don't see those people posting is becuase their busy actually playing.

:rolleyes:

geronimo27
05-10-2002, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Ae0N




They did nothing wrong, there are more people that like the patch than there are that don't. The reason you don't see those people posting is becuase their busy actually playing.

:rolleyes:

Actually, they did a number of things wrong.

They made HUGE changes in the gameplay of a game that changed the playstyle of the game dramatically.

They unbalanced what was already balanced, and broke what was already fixed.

And they split the JK2 community in half - huge no no for a game.

Spider AL
05-10-2002, 01:28 AM
Hear hear Geronimo, I agree 100%.

L3onheart
05-10-2002, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by geronimo27


Actually, they did a number of things wrong.

They made HUGE changes in the gameplay of a game that changed the playstyle of the game dramatically.

They unbalanced what was already balanced, and broke what was already fixed.

And they split the JK2 community in half - huge no no for a game.

I'm getting sick of these stupid patch posts. This will be my last post about this!

They made changes to the gameplay to FIX gameplay. Make it more competitive. Make it more saber centered. People, HELLO!!! It's star wars! The game has been created to be centered around the saber!!

Want to play CTF? Go play TFC in Half-Life or Q3F!

Want to spam fast with weapons? Go play Q2 Railgun!

They BALANCED what was UNBALANCED and fixed what was broken, not the other way 'round!

RAVEN didn't split the community in half. The community itself decided to be split in half. Just like the CS community did when CS 1.4 came out.

So i'll tell you guys what I told the CS guys.
LIVE WITH IT! If you're a REAL player, you'll adapt and re-learn your skills. But if you're just a stupid lamer who just spams, then you won't be able or even REFUSE to learn.

End Of Line.

NK_Zephorath
05-10-2002, 08:24 AM
I'm getting sick of these stupid patch posts. This will be my last post about this!

They made changes to the gameplay to FIX gameplay. Make it more competitive. Make it more saber centered. People, HELLO!!! It's star wars! The game has been created to be centered around the saber!!

Want to play CTF? Go play TFC in Half-Life or Q3F!

Want to spam fast with weapons? Go play Q2 Railgun!

They BALANCED what was UNBALANCED and fixed what was broken, not the other way 'round!

RAVEN didn't split the community in half. The community itself decided to be split in half. Just like the CS community did when CS 1.4 came out.

So i'll tell you guys what I told the CS guys.
LIVE WITH IT! If you're a REAL player, you'll adapt and re-learn your skills. But if you're just a stupid lamer who just spams, then you won't be able or even REFUSE to learn.

End Of Line.

What are you smoking?
They didn't make it more competitive, they absolutely screwed ctf. Its your own damn fault if you get killed by a gunner on a guns only server!!! What part of that do you not understand?
They also increased the repeater and flak secondary ammo costs to 25 each.
The game was NOT unbalanced!

Add to that, like someone said before,
it is frustrating to have to re-learn everything you knew because some retard wants to be a real jedi. The saber fighting is horrible now. Even if you get an opening, you might not hit, because its blocked.
WAY TOO FORGIVING TO NEWBIES.

We don't want to play q3a or cs or whatever. JK1 had a large gunner commuinity. You'd never see someone try to saber on oasis. Face it, some people like CTF. In any game, people will try to use the most dominant weapon. Grenades and rockets in quake, rockets and railgun in Q2 etc.. and nobody has complained before. Just because some IDIOTS whine about getting killed on a guns server, the game is drastically changed!
Ya know what you could've done?
Stayed the **** off the gun servers.

ninelives
05-10-2002, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by SpaceMonkey1315
the only people i'm complaining about are the people who cry because they know raven eliminated their cheap moves

they remove the cheap move but also add in new cheap move.

which is...... back stab

Mero Vilul
05-10-2002, 09:28 AM
Originally posted by w1ggl3s
Next time Beta test with a large amount of your gamers over a broad spectrum of the styles of jk2 before puting in such a game changing patch.

Ive been gaming for six years. Tired of this nonsense.

Eq sucked at it, Uo sucked at it.. DaoC have been the first orginized beta testing of up and comming patches that ive seen thats been consistent.. Heck they removed one patch cause it sucked so bad from beta testing and went back and worked on it again.

Get a clue Raven.

Oh, and next game put a cd check and some other id on it.. maybe ya wont lose so much money to hackers.

And yes I spent my 50 bucks on a game that Ruled. But has lost its touch.

Ive never been so captivated by a fps in MUltiplayer. Now i can barely stand to load up All seeing eye.

I expect a bit more customer service out of ya guys next time before ya throw a patch at us . And for gods sake make a way so that we can go back to a patch before and test out the differences.

Return to 1.02!

Ctf / team dm saber/force only have suffered greatly with this new auto block crap.

Wiggles

Hey Raven, I hoped you learned a lesson here.
Don't listen to the community again, they will only hate you.
Please don't do what we tell you to do again, cause we only make sucky ideas, and you know it.
So please don't never ever again make my voice heard, cause I dislike being a part of something.

Yes, do like EA do for MOH:AA, do nothing!
That's the best thing to do, and learn it quickly!

Listening to the community will only lead to one thing:
100's of serious gameplay changing patches.

Everyone who wanted SP sabers will now mostly be quite, and those who want the origianal MP sabre, will now scream they hate of the patch. And if you reverse it again, you will have the SP sabers screaming again...

I hope you guys at Raven knew that more ppl wanted SP sabers over the OMP (Original Multi Player) Saber... But I don't really care, I haven't played for 4 weeks (except today, testing patch), I just wanted to laugh at the "I want to be a Jedi"-community... This community is far from great, some few are great ppl (you know who you are) but most are just ppl that wants to change the game to their "reflection of the Star Wars Universe"...

idlemind
05-10-2002, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by geronimo27


Actually, they did a number of things wrong.

They made HUGE changes in the gameplay of a game that changed the playstyle of the game dramatically.

They unbalanced what was already balanced, and broke what was already fixed.

And they split the JK2 community in half - huge no no for a game.

ok look, I'm gonna give the new patch a try and hopefully become a good fighter again. But I don't see how you can't say that Raven really made a big mistake here. If they wanted to fix gameplay they should have done it in increments. Not all at once. They did create a huge rift in the community, which was one of their most valuable assets. I mean, what did they expect when they put this patch out? that was their biggest mistake.

i appreciate the fact that Raven tried to improve gameplay, but they really should have taken a step back and looked at both the pros and cons of making so many huge changes. Look at the number of threads on these forums concerning the patch. They're not there just because all of a sudden the forums spawned hordes of whiners. They're there because all of a sudden there is a very big division here, and Raven have only themselves to blame.

HBK
05-10-2002, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by ninelives
they remove the cheap move but also add in new cheap move.

which is...... back stab

That move has always been in the game, though there are claims it is stronger than before(?). It is just more prominant because the "I only know/use 1 move" spammers have moved on to it from the DFA, which is still effective in the right, skilled hands.

As for the gun folks who are complaining, you knew with all of the bit**ing about the guns there was going to be changes. Instead of telling all of the complainers to shut up, deal with it, or go to sabre only servers, you should have been suggesting acceptable changes to the guns. Perhaps some of you did, but I cannot recall. So blame yourselves, Raven was listening.

SpaceMonkey1315
05-10-2002, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by geronimo27


Actually, they did a number of things wrong.

They made HUGE changes in the gameplay of a game that changed the playstyle of the game dramatically.

They unbalanced what was already balanced, and broke what was already fixed.

And they split the JK2 community in half - huge no no for a game.

i can tell right now that your not that bright..."they unbalanced what was already balanced"?????? how the hell is having 8 out of 10 people in a ffa room dfa spamming balanced...how did blocking lightsabers ruin the game

broke what was already fixed...lemee guess, you were a dfa spammer, a drain whore, a grip monkey, and you spend half of your time playing making bad comments towards "noobs"...look at the game from a point of view like someone wanted to play for a fun, jedi related game, and not a bunch of whiny idiots who are mad because they cant spam people as much anymore, get off it

Space Monkey

Xombie
05-10-2002, 11:56 AM
(reposted from another thread, think it applies here)

I'd like to take this time to applaud the people being polite and reasonable in their complaints. They're most likely the only people that Raven will actually bother reading. And with damn good reason.

Here's a few tips, guys:

1.) As soon as you use the word "gay" or have "*****" in a post.... the dev will most likely skip over it. The same goes for any insults toward them.
You've already paid for the game. Your actual transaction is over. They have no obligation to sit there and take insults from someone on a message board. They DO have an obligation to make the game better. So they'll listen to those who want to be reasonable and make the game better, not just make the game better for themselves.

2.) There's complaining, and there's whining. If they don't take whining from their own children, why would they take it from you? Contrary to popular belief, there IS a way to complain without being a jerk about it.

3.) You are NOT (n-o-t, not) married to a weapon in the game. If you happen to not like the way a weapon works, use one that you have more fun with. Ask for them to make the other weapon better, and wait it out until the next patch. If you really really want to use the other weapon, then either stay with the old patch or get used to it being harder. Someone with "skill" can adapt. If you can't adapt to some changes, how can you claim to have any "skill" at all? Do what is most fun for you. You're not beign tortured into any decision here.

4.) Clans didn't pay more for the game than anyone else. Nor do they support the community more than anyone else. Clans TEND to be more elitist than the rest of the community (and yes, i'm in clans and competitive play, so I am speaking from experience). Saying "THE CLANS DON'T LIKE IT" isn't going to intimidate the developers. At all.

5.) They do want to fix the game, and don't happen to have a bias towards those who use a certain weapon. They MADE all the weapons. If they didn't like a weapon, they probably wouldn't have put it in the game. They aren't sitting back going "HAW HAW! Look at dem silly gun uzerz! We shur showd thm!". You all paid for the game, they want ALL of you to buy their future games, so they are going to try to make it an enjoyable experience for as many people as possible. Their job is to make games for people. They aren't going to try to screw you over for the sake of screwing you over.

Developers will listen to those who help them the most. Calling them gay isn't helping them. Insulting them isn't helping them. Going "this entire patch sucks" doesn't help them either. And certainly refraining from telling them what they're doing RIGHT just for the sake of being stubborn, is not helping them.

You should have learned this in kindergarten: Play nice with others, and you'll get to use more toys.

Mister666
05-10-2002, 12:36 PM
Well said Xombie. :)

You're totally right in everything you say there.

I too wasn't too pleased with the patch when I first played it, after all I had got used to how things worked, and had some good tactics and techniques for winning saber battles and the patch did make some major changes which neutralised some of my best moves. :(

However, after persevering, I have got used to the new styles (blue style is actually useful now, and yellow and red are more balanced than before, to which end I now use all 3 styles, whereas before I only ever used yellow) an I have developed some new techniques and moves to use and I rather like it now.

So, no complaints here, well played, Raven, you listened to what the majority of the community were asking for and implemented changes to give them what they wanted.
With any change, you'll inevitably pi$$ some people off (usually the ones who are afraid of changes), but like I say, Raven have made the changes that the majority asked for, so well done.

w1ggl3s
05-10-2002, 01:03 PM
I started using a backstab combo about 2 weeks into playing jk2

The only reason its so pwrfull now is cause players are not ping ponged off hits.

IE before when you where move to the ground u could jump up and hope for the saber to throw you realy far away.

Now the saber passes threw you doing dmg on both ends of the move

there for ending the poor newbs life who hasnt a clue


And your right Raven did even out the playing field.

Now 99% of my timed shots dont get threw.

And one move is so pwrfull it can kill 3 people at once.


I removed 1.03 logged onto my fav 1.02 ctf server.

The enemy flag runner runs around a door..

First sword swing i make i timed it to meet the guy as he came out the other side. hit him square in the forhead.

In 1.03? woulda been blocked

in 1.02? Dead flag carrier

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Why this patch is stupid.

Do you think a house owner would come to his home he purchased one day and find the building contracter had totaly removed the house and put in a parking lot so he could add better parking for his neighbors the Duelest. Do you the think the house owner.... better known as Ctf saber/force only combat. would like the changes he never knew where comming ?

Heck no. I think the guy would be incredbly frustrated.


I had absolutly NO qualms with the game that was out of the box.

Probably the best game ive ever played as a fps.

My house was perfect. but someone turned into better parking for the duelest without me knowning.

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