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View Full Version : 1.03 Blocking - or the illusion of more blocking


EekTheKat
05-10-2002, 11:38 PM
Raven did not change blocking at all with this patch. If you take some time to analyze what ChangKhan said about what was changed in this patch you'll see that in fact the blocking system is the same in 1.02....it's the much improved saber collision code that's making it seem like it's blocking more.

The actual auto blocking arc feels almost exactly the same pre-patch. And some of the same holes in defense in pre-1.03 blocking still exist - albeit they're harder to reach now because the sabers now accurate collide with one another in multi-player.

They simply made it so that lightsabers made contact with one another much more frequently, which was what the community generally as a whole asked for when the game first came out. This is how two lightsaber should behave when they collide.

The side effect of this change is it makes saber combat feel like there's more blocking.

Essentially what people are complaining about is that lightsabers no longer pass through one another with regularity. This is what people are complaining about.

I suspect a good portion of the problem 1.02 people who complained about blocking are having is actually more with the new saber damage scheme and with the new parry, interrupt, knockback animations that were put in. Where before their "combos" were passing through the other person's lightsaber a lot of 1.02 people are now finding that their combos are being interrupted by the parry/interrupt animations that were put back into the game.

What a lot of people are missing is that auto blocking in 1.03 IS NOT GUARANTEED. It is still possible to *crush* your opponent's guard using certain heavy swings. Whereas before a heavy swing would simply pass through the other person's lightsaber, in 1.03 the heavy swing now actually knocks away the other person's lightsaber - leaving a split second opening on the other person's guard for an attack.

If memory serves, this was stated in the manual as well regarding how lightsaber combat worked. Light stance guard is not completely unstoppable by all means.

Before we continue, the term *sweet spot* I'm referring to in the following paragraphs is the "middle" part of the swing. In the patch it was specfically stated that the starting and ending part of the swing of a lightsaber now do less damage than the middle part of the swing. This change was sorely needed to address in part of the problem 1.02 had with DFA killing you outright even though your opponent's lightsaber was already buried into the ground.

One possible way to address problems some 1.02 haters are having (and possibly many other problems people are having now is)is to play around with the damage output of the *sweet spot* of the swing. Between the current need to hit with sweet spot of swing scheme and the apparent extra blocking that occurs when lightsabers touch one another, this is what's making lightsaber fights last longer.

The one problem I see with this is currently it is still possible to kill people in 3 or 4 hits it just takes more skill to make those 3 or 4 hits connect cleanly, mainly because lightsabers do not pass through one another like it use to.

The skilled 1.03 player can still kill their opponent in a reasonable amount of time in a duel that's face to face. Several people have already attested that once they realize the difference between the original game and the 1.02 game and adapted to it, they can still connect a good portion of their swings for full damage like they use to.

Playing around with the damage output of the sweet spot can also have an adverse effect of making lightsabers too powerful ) where one or two sweet spot swings can kill a person outright).

But if the power of the lightsabers were increased, then chances are giving more ammo back to the guns would be a possible balance as well to the whole saber vs. gun issue.

In short, the requirement to score clean hits to do more damage is and the new lightsaber collision code is what's making saber fights last longer. What the people who complain about too much blocking really want is for lightsabers to pass through one another again like the 1.02 game, and possibly to have the new parry,interrupt animations removed from the game because they're now interrupting their combos.

I feel as though if any lightsaber combat is to be tweaked right now, it's not in the blocking scheme (which is almost dead on perfect with 1.03) - but rather the various issues people have with stances, the speed and the recovery time of various moves (a lot of high damage moves right now are very low risk due to their relatively quick recovery), the strength of the lightsaber, and perhaps most important of all player movement speed (slowing down the player's backward movement).

1.03 was a major step in the right direction as to how lightsaber battles should work - blocking is now working as it should be.

With a little polish up work as to how certain moves behave now the saber combat in this game can easily go down as one of the best sword/saber fighting games out there ever made on any platform (that title now currently belongs to the several year old Bushido Blade).

EekTheKat
05-10-2002, 11:46 PM
Forgot to add -

Someone brought up the suggestion of lowering the blocking arc for lightsabers - this is possible but it might have an adverse effect vs. gunners if they tweaked it.

If they lowered the blocking arc we might be seeing posts today about how gunners are owning the saberists bad today.

The blocking arc of the lightsaber should be controlled by your force defense skill anyway (if in fact this isn't how it currently works right now). Those complaining about too much blocking might look into those settings on some of the servers they're playing on.

BlackDove
05-10-2002, 11:49 PM
Thank you for proving my point that I made in another thread. However, I still like my 3-4 hit kills, since I really don't want to drag a duel into a "forever" stage...besides if there wasn't a 3-4 hit kill on a medium stance, the blue one would not be effective at all...

Nill the Mean
05-10-2002, 11:59 PM
Excellent post. I agree with you that the blocking system has been changed for the better. However, I think if they toned it down a little bit it would be more fun. There is no harm in it requiring a little less skill to land a hit. The people who are good at the game will be able to do it more often than the newbies so you can still be better than someone, if that is your primary concern.
The smaller blocking arc (it was me) is only an idea. It would have to be fine-tuned of course. I don't have to much trouble with keeping my opponent in front of me however, so I don't feel the need to have the same arc as now to protect myself from gunners. If I am getting shot at from behind or beside me I just move myself into a position where I can block them both. Even then I usually just pull to steal their gun :D.
I don't think gunners would get that much of an advantage out of it...

EekTheKat
05-11-2002, 12:08 AM
Think the fix then might be to up the damage of the residuals (the starting + ending portion of a swing).

I noticed I'm still connecting a lot of swings like before, but I'm just not doing nearly as much damage as I use to due to the new residual damage system (since most of my hits are not clean hits).

Of course people are complaining about the power of the backstab now, and this might make running into the end part of a DFA more dangerous now.....

BlackDove
05-11-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by Nill the Mean
Excellent post. I agree with you that the blocking system has been changed for the better. However, I think if they toned it down a little bit it would be more fun. There is no harm in it requiring a little less skill to land a hit. The people who are good at the game will be able to do it more often than the newbies so you can still be better than someone, if that is your primary concern.
The smaller blocking arc (it was me) is only an idea. It would have to be fine-tuned of course. I don't have to much trouble with keeping my opponent in front of me however, so I don't feel the need to have the same arc as now to protect myself from gunners. If I am getting shot at from behind or beside me I just move myself into a position where I can block them both. Even then I usually just pull to steal their gun :D.
I don't think gunners would get that much of an advantage out of it...

Same goes for me...if you are concerned about the ark, I suggest turning your MOUSE SENSITIVITY TO MAX!!!...as much as the arc is concerned, I was able to deflect gunners that were, in my sight, one on a 10 o'clock, and the other on the two o'clock position...

EekTheKat
05-11-2002, 12:22 AM
I said this before in the thread but..

I think the blocking arc should be (if it's not already) controlled by Force Saber Defense.

Some people might be simply seeing a lot of random swinging newbies with max Force Saber Defense right now.

Maybe Max Force Defense's blocking arc has always been too wide, but it's not only until now do we see it more in action with how they fixed lightsaber collision.

Conversely maybe saber damage should be controlled by Force Saber Offense as well.

Maybe these two factors (Force Saber Offense/Defense) should tie more into how the lightsaber mechanics work. And maybe the Force Point cost of Offense and Defense should be tweaked conversely as well..

Blamer
05-11-2002, 12:30 AM
Yeah, I really do think the blocking is fine. You can autoblock just as well as the enemy does, so the emphasis is on finding a good opportunity to attack and exploiting your opponent's mistakes -- instead of jousting at each other and trying to catch someone on the tip of your swing.

TheDarkSide
05-11-2002, 12:48 AM
Great thread here. Debunk the 'uber-blocking' myth. You *can* break through saber defenses with well placed heavy swings. I've done it, and I've had it done to me.
I'd be interested to get on a server with someone and go through the new saber offense and defense analytically. Try to quanitfy some of these things we're talking about. Seeing how well saber defense 1/2/3 block comparatively vs different attacks, etc. Sound like a good idea to anyone?

TDS

TheDarkSide
05-11-2002, 12:59 AM
Great thread here. Debunk the 'uber-blocking' myth. You *can* break through saber defenses with well placed heavy swings. I've done it, and I've had it done to me.
I'd be interested to get on a server with someone and go through the new saber offense and defense analytically. Try to quanitfy some of these things we're talking about. Seeing how well saber defense 1/2/3 block comparatively vs different attacks, etc. Sound like a good idea to anyone?

TDS

UsEr-X-
05-11-2002, 01:29 AM
HEY! ITS LETS PULL USELESS **** OUT OF OUR ASS AND SPAM THE FORUM WEEK!!!!!!!!WOOOHOOOOO

EekTheKat
05-11-2002, 05:15 PM
Just tested something a while ago -

Thyere is a significant difference between Force Defense 2 and Force Defense 3. Quite a lot of moves get through Force Defense 2 as opposed to 3

Odds are a lot of people who are complaining about excessive blocking are merely running into people with Force Defense 3 set.

w1ggl3s
05-11-2002, 08:59 PM
Ive had my defense set on 0 for past 2 days, Have not noticed a diference in saber shots getting through.

Walking backwards needs to be slowed down drasticaly.

Sabers need to be more pwrfull when they hit again.

That meens tuning everything up

I think red should be able to slice a man in half in one shot

I think Yellow should be able to chop a guy down in 2-3 good solid shots

and BLue.. WHo cares about blue :P

I personaly think the collisions of the sabers is way to much.

Needs to be toned down just a bit.

and saber hitting needs to be turned up alot.

and keep dfa as it was in 1.02