View Full Version : Comparison of "assfighting" to UT

05-13-2002, 04:03 PM
I've played Unreal Tournament for a long time now, got very good at it. I've seen just about all there is to see there, and I'm seeing a glaring comparison between a certain technique that some use here in JK2 and in UT.

For those of you who dont know, there is a weapon in UT called the Shock Rifle. When one fires the primary, a blue laser shoots out, instant hit. Secondary launches a slower moving ball of energy. However, when one strikes this blue ball with the primary laser, the ball explodes in a huge purple shockwave, and can kill virtually anything in one hit, or at least send them to the other side of the map, literally. http://forums.prounreal.com/images/smiles/s-shock.gif
People use this. Its very easy to do, its an almost instant kill, and it can be done from a distance, unlike the backslash/stab.

Its one of the most commonly used techniques in the game, and if you check ngStats, a lot of really good players have shock frags that almost double their next highest frag count (usually rockets or minigun).

Now my point is this. People whined and moaned about shock whores briefly, before they learned ways around them, learned to do it themselves, and so on. Now barely a minute passes in a match without someone doing it, and nobody says a word. Its just part of the game. What is to say that the same wont happen here?

We have a precedent for a supposedly "cheap" move, which was integrated into the game, used, bypassed, and is now an every game thing. I suspect the same will happen with the backslashes. (although my sense of pride dictates that I not look like an ass, runnig backwards at someone swinging at stuf I cant see.)

I dont want to start a flame thread, I just wanted you critics to see that this is not the first time something like this has popped up. (and yes, it can get REALLY bad. Ask a UT veteran about a clan match of ThornsV2.. :rolleyes: )


05-13-2002, 05:23 PM
I agree, unfortunately it takes time for this to play out. So we just have to put our waders on and slough around the forums for the next couple of weeks until it washes down stream.

...or the moderators start a new forum called "Why I really hate what I hate...."

05-13-2002, 06:59 PM
IIRC the shock combo was good but was unwieldy because of the fact that you either had to stay completely still to do it, or have very good aim. Most people I knew prefered the other weapons. I also don't recall people really spamming it, or complaining about it (although admittedly I joined the community a little late, just before the last patch / update pack).

05-13-2002, 07:03 PM
The reason this combo blew off in UT was because it took skill to execute it, rather than backstab does.

05-13-2002, 07:03 PM
People running around with their butts flaring trying to stick their saber in someone is GAY.

There is NO comparison with UT...

05-13-2002, 07:44 PM
The Shock Rifle Combo isn't as whored as the Translocator is in CTF. That's why I pretty much left UT, because all anyone does is Trans spam around the map. Then theres the auto-shoots, quite prevalent in CTF InstaGib, my mode of choice. CSHP is trash and easy to get around =/

I can't wait until UT 2003, we should get a demo at the end of the month, should be great :)

/me conditions GF3 for lotsa work

05-13-2002, 08:08 PM
God I remember the translocator craziness. ugh.

05-13-2002, 09:06 PM
lol Yeah, trans is spammed but the shock rifle is actually the counter spam to it. Fire a combo at the puck, and they gib. Its great.

Anyway, LoonBB, your post is ignored, as your attitude clearly shows you to be too immature to partake in an intelligent discussion.

I didnt run into many aimbots, but then again, I played mostly on CTF. Aimbotters are mostly concerned with personal gain, not teh good of your team. (unless you count Face)
I often got called a cheater because of good aim, though. Some people have aim that is positivley unreal, Tawana, so you may not have been getting cheated.

The combo in UT really didnt take much skill, imo. It was one of the easiest things one could do. Just stand in one place or run in a straight line, fire seondary, then immediatley hold primary fire. As long as you dont move your mouse (which isnt hard) then you'll hit it. Ask any UT player, they'll tell you its simple. Doing it on the move is hard, though, not many people did it tht way.


05-14-2002, 12:56 AM
The shock combo takes a lot of skill to do it quickly and reliably. Good players using it actually got to where they are with practice. Backstab takes maybe 30 seconds of practice and you can backstab with the best of them; not only does it look ridiculous, it's overpowered and just screws up games in general. Nothing that easy to spam should be so effective.

05-14-2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by LooNBB
People running around with their butts flaring trying to stick their saber in someone is GAY.

There is NO comparison with UT... It's great to see people that read and understand threads...:rolleyes:

Lord Sokar
05-14-2002, 01:32 AM
In the world of 'Unreal', perhaps this is part of how things work. People shooting blue balls from a distance to kill everything. Not much different that having really powerful det packs with a remote.

However, in the world of Star Wars, it's been pretty well established that Jedis DON'T WALK AROUND BACKWARDS IN HOPES OF STABING SOMEONE FOR THAT 'QUICK KILL'.

05-14-2002, 01:34 AM


05-14-2002, 02:19 AM
I played a lot of UT back in '99 and '00. I played CTF exclusively (I've never been a fan of DM, really). And honestly, I never noticed this stuff. I didn't play any organized clan matches, and I did see people use the move, but not spam it.

In my experience, the rocket launcher, flak cannon, and sniper rifle were my babies. I had a friend who got REALLY good with the ripper. I mean, this guy was like a pool shark with that thing.

Honestly, though, the shock rifle never did much for me. That said, if it became "accepted" to simply use an easy killing method, that would kind of irk me.

There is, however, a key difference. In UT, the game was structured around fast paced kills. Even with the other weapons, usually any fight would be over in a matter of seconds. You either gibbed the guy, or he gibbed you. Or maybe it took you three shots. Regardless, that was how gameplay worked in that game. Run, gun, and pray.

JK2 is FAR more complex than that. We have force powers, lightsabres, AND guns. Because of that, we have games and fighting that takes a bit longer.

Honestly, if people spammed the repeater or the flechette cannon in a guns only game, I wouldn't care. Sure they're easy moves, but it's a gun game. I accept that.

When you throw sabres into the mix, though, things change for me. A sabre should not be a one-hit kill weapon, unless ALL hits are kills. Or at least all locationally significant hits (IE: if you stab my toe, I shouldn't die).

Plus, look at how the rest of the game is structured currently. DFA was nerfed. Heavy stance was nerfed. Light stance was beefed up. Medium stance was...well...mostly left alone, but tweaked so you couldn't just spin ad nauseum (as it should be). AND blocking was SERIOUSLY beefed up.

All this tells me that the backstab was never INTENDED to be played that way, in the current patch. Plus, we've got ChangKhan's admission that he thought the backstab was being fixed in the patch, but the coder never got around to it.

This move is the exception to the rest of gameplay. It just doesn't belong in its current form. As they used to say on Sesame Street, "One of these things is not like the other."

In that sense, I think there will always be a vocal portion of the community that condemns the move as cheap and lame and generally unacceptable.

Plus, it's NOT fun to play against. I went on servers last night and found mostly assmasters playing. Let me tell you, it took me, oh, MAYBE 3 minutes for me to say, "The hell with this...what's the point?" And to switch to a new server. Unfortunately, this move is becoming more and more prevalent.

You see one guy use it on a server, then EVERYONE starts using it because they feel it's the only way to counter the one guy, or they figure they want to get fast kills too.

It's possible for me to beat an ass master a fair amount of the time (or at least drive them off me) if I simply kick them to death (BOOT TO THE HEAD!). But when it's an entire server of people doing nothing but the backstab...well, you can count me out, man. That just bores the crap out of me.

Star ReaVeR
05-14-2002, 12:25 PM
I played alot of UT, when it became filled with shockers, it was the gayest game of all time imo

ok over n out

05-14-2002, 12:31 PM
It is really simple guys... Ass Spamming is not the same as UT.

Get over it. Go Away!

Spider AL
05-14-2002, 01:37 PM
when it's an entire server of people doing nothing but the backstab...well, you can count me out, man. That just bores the crap out of me.

Hear hear! Very boring, must be fixed, Raven, take note!

Ass Spamming is not the same as UT.

Well, it sort of is the same, in that so-called "shock-whores" tend to use very little except the shock rifle, and some of them have become very skilled with said shock rifle as a consequence. I mean, I'm excellent at the backstab. No, really. I can do it without thought now, and I don't have to (and never have) run around backwards. But, and here's the but of buts: It's overpowered. If every sabre strike killed in one hit, it'd be MORE BALANCED. Then, people would use the sabre in all sorts of ways, and gunners would become more skilled in avoiding the sabre. I'd like that as it'd be the same as 1.02.

But now, the backstab is BY FAR the most effective move in the game. No other move rivals it for damage or potential usefulness in a Force game. If such a move exists, it forces people to use it to defeat other people, and this has reduced the entire JO game to a backstab-heavy fest.

Sabre combat should be rich and interesting, not reduced to one move. Even I, the uber-gunner, declare this.

05-14-2002, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by LooNBB
It is really simple guys... Ass Spamming is not the same as UT.

Get over it. Go Away!

Ohhhhhhhhh, well, LooNBB has spoken! He says its not the same as UT, so it MUST be true, right? After all, we need no justification from him, his word is proof enough!


I played on a FFA server last night where ass spamming was prevalent, and I agree that it should be curbed a little bit. However, I dont think it's an entirely pressing issue. After all, even though the main ass spammer (everyone else only did it a little) was on top of the scoreboard, there were snickers from everyone else about how he got there. It really was more like his name was on the top of the board, but he got no respect for it, like others might by using less spammy techniques.


Spider AL
05-14-2002, 04:00 PM
Go Away!

Can't we all just get along? There's no need for any of this.

It really was more like his name was on the top of the board, but he got no respect for it

Hmm, almost nobody gives a winner any respect, regardless of his methods. Sure, there are some fawning types, but they mostly just want to butter the winner up, on the offchance that he/she'll show the fawner some technique or other. After five years of Quake, Quake II, Jedi Knight, HL TFC, UT and now JO, I can say with assurance, that in my experience, being a winner is just a case of laughing at the insults, ignoring the fawners and playing to have fun.

Let's face it, the serious and honest players, when they want to appreciate someone else's skill, will simply say "pld" or "gg mate" at the end of the match.

05-14-2002, 04:09 PM
I think the problem that myself and many others have with the 'ass move' is not its balance. Yeah, it is a powerfull move, so what. Other moves are powerfull to.

The thing that annoys me is that it makes the game look so terrible. It is just beyond my limits of stupidity to think that 2 jedis, masters of fighting that have spent their entire lives training, will end up spending half their time charging backward at their enemy. Or, run up in an amazing advance, only to turn around and press their but into their enemies saber right when they get close. It just looks so idiotic it blows my mind.

I have no problems with one move being better than another. I do have a problem with the best move in the game looking idiotic. If there is going to be a move that people will want to use all the time, the least they could do is make it so that move looks good.

In most games, 'bend over' means 'I'm about to kill you.' In JKII 'bend over' means 'please kill me.'

05-14-2002, 04:18 PM
Well i still play UT....I can pull off the Shock combo pretty easily
It really depends on your crosshairs style...i just use a dot
Only time i really use it is from a distance & into a room full of ppl....but only if I dont have a REDEEMER!

I prefer the green pulse gun to the blue

I love to use the FLAK CANNON...its just so visceral, plus the flak bounces around corners

The Minigun is nice but not very accurate

The sniper rifle is good..i used to run around & nail no scope headshots

My all time fav is to cap someone with just a pistol & take it from them & run around with double pistols...ive stood toe to toe with minigunners & dropped them with the alt fire of double pistols.

In every game there "blank whores" fill in the blank with what ever technique or what ever
In Quake3 - Rockets
& so on & so forth

I say adept & overcome
Bitchin gets ya know where cept labeled as a whiner

You grip, i pull
You DFA, i sidestep & slash
You come running at me with yer ass first, im gonna shoot you in it

Spider AL
05-14-2002, 04:31 PM
Yeah, it is a powerfull move, so what. Other moves are powerfull to.

There are no moves as powerful as the backswing. Just so you know. Not even the most powerful guns dispatch someone in one shot, the backswing dispatches anyone standing close enough in one hit. Therefore the game now consists of endless backswinging. There's no point in having the force powers, the sabre moves, the other stances and the many guns... as long as shoving people over and backswinging them is this powerful.

But everyone knows this now and the backswing fix is almost a foregone conclusion if there IS to be another patch at all. I think the important thing to concentrate on is asking Raven for ammo consumption to be restored in FFA and CTF, and the restoration of the Darksider as real rivals to us Lighties.

05-14-2002, 04:40 PM
It is NOT the same thing...
not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not not

05-14-2002, 04:59 PM
a 2 year old's arguements aren't going to get very far...

no, they aren't the same, no duh. but a comparison can stil be valid

I haven't played much the last week, I have seen someone running backwards at me once... it was like, WTF?? he looked like an idiot, and I still kicked his ass,

05-14-2002, 05:10 PM
Spider, its not one hit that kills. Its multiple hits that kill. The backslash hits several times as it passes. If not aimed properly, or if one jumps quick enough, you can come away with only being hit once, which is only above average damage, not one-hit kill.

It needs tweaking, but its probably a small tweak.

LooNBB has spoken, though, his word is law! Bow your heads, infidels!!! He needs no justification! What he says, go's!!!!!


05-14-2002, 06:44 PM
Thank you Shock for Understanding the weight of my word... You are free to go now.


Spider AL
05-14-2002, 07:03 PM
its not one hit that kills. Its multiple hits that kill. The backslash hits several times as it passes.

Oh I'm quite aware of that Shocky. I'm sure you're aware also however, that when one is... ahem... in a prone position, any backstab is impossible to avoid. The strong backstab, is unstoppable. Realistically, you go down, you aren't getting up again. Even if some people escape through luck or judgement every so often, that's what I call a one-hit kill. Nobody can defeat someone who does the knockdown/backswing combo, unless they do it themselves. This is a hard lesson I've learned, while on the FFA servers. You may not want to be cheap, but by god, you have to be.

05-14-2002, 08:43 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL

You may not want to be cheap, but by god, you have to be.

All the more reason to remove this.

It makes the game boring.

It's unstopable (if it connects).

It has no real costs associated with it.

Either add costs, make it blockable, reduce the damage, or get rid of the thing altogether.

Personally, I'm for a reduction in damage (to the point where it will not kill a person at 100 health, but would do about 80 damage), but that it has MAJOR costs associated with it.

And I think the backstab move should be the same for all stances: a back STAB as in light stance. Meaning you kill the guy behind you and only him.

05-14-2002, 08:57 PM
Well, my point was actually that the move can be fixed by removing the multiple hit aspect. Make it so one hit will do about 45-50 damg, and then wont hit anymore during the animation.


05-14-2002, 09:05 PM
there's another 1 hit kill thats much worse then this backwards attack stuff everyone on here is talking about. I am suprised no one has found it. Hint - it can be done in any stance and always kills in 1 hit instantly.

Hell Raiser
05-14-2002, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by Jessicka
there's another 1 hit kill thats much worse then this backwards attack stuff everyone on here is talking about. I am suprised no one has found it. Hint - it can be done in any stance and always kills in 1 hit instantly.

Hrm... lets see here, oh wait, that sounds like the backstab and backswing moves. :rolleyes:

05-14-2002, 09:28 PM
nope it has nothing to do with any special moves. in fact it was there in 102 but i guess they didnt catch it. you can stand still and all you have to do is ONE thing. I just said in my first post it wasnt all the backward attack stuff. You need to be facing someone for sure and it's a very simple thing. A bug in a bind. Very simple to do.

05-14-2002, 09:29 PM
I really don't understand all the whining. There is a great difference between a newbie trying to backstab, which usually equates to running around backwards flailing your saber, and the expert person trying to backstab, which usually equates to quick spins and fast executions, a sign of skill.

I personally am very good at the backstab/sweep, and I NEVER run around backwards. The majority of the times I use it to hit and kill are when I either a) crouch roll behind them, b) jump over their head and backstab after landing or c) pull them down on the ground and cut them up.

I do believe that if you hit someone in the back with a light saber, they should die. And it just so happens, that the best way to accomplish said objective is with the backstab/sweep, as you don't have to turn around after getting behind them. If you get pulled onto the ground at someone's feet, and are prone, you deserve to be dead if you don't get up.

Which is another thing! I have fought my grand share of "assmasters" since the patch, and our fights do go on a sizable amount of time, because we are usually both adept at getting up very quickly and leaping out of the way, which CAN BE DONE! I have fought and killed 4 ass fighters at once, mainly because I could get away from them, and they could not get away from me. It is about skill in it's use.. it does one hit kill, but any retard running around backwards is a VERY easy target. Just forward+jump+attack while in yellow mode and they die, at absolutely no risk to you. It's pretty easy to avoid moves that stay so close to the ground if you JUMP!

Newbies whining because they get owned by an experienced assmaster is just a sign of the great different in skill levels. Newbie ass fighters run around backwards, expert assmasters spin and execute. And if you are standing right next to someone constantly attacking them, and they manage to turn around IN YOUR FACE while having THEIR BACK TO YOU, and still kill you, well, you deserve what you've got coming. It is a short range attack, after all. Just, for god's sake, don't stand there.

All I'm saying is, I have had little trouble against assmasters by constantly staying in motion, and not letting my force drain down to a level where I will be constantly susceptable to force pulls. And if you can't dodge newbies running around backwards, then you're still a newbie.

05-14-2002, 10:50 PM

The move itself is not unbeatable. It's incredibly cheap, it makes the game dull and boring, but it's not unbeatable. IF you're only dealing with a single enemy. IE: if I'm in a duel, I may die from the backstab/sweep maybe once out of every fifteen duels.

The problem that I have is that with this move in the game, games degenerate into masses of people backstabbing and doing nothing but that. The game becomes a pointless exercise in seeing who can do the backstab fastest in a crowd of people. If you do it quicker than everyone else, you win. That's the game in a nutshell when you are on a server with a lot of people doing this move. Eventually, it becomes unavoidable, and you either switch servers or join in in the chaos.

The point that I'm making about this is that having this move as it is in the game makes the game MUCH less fun. Picture this. You're on a server. You're having great duels with other players. They use force powers, different moves, you counter with your own, etc. The game is intricate and fun.

Then some guy shows up on the server. He starts pulling people towards him and doing the backsweep. He runs up to people engaged in a one on one duel (not a challenge, just a fight), and sweeps 'em both. Pretty soon, using ONE MOVE, he gets to the top of the score list and pisses a number of people off on the way. Then, one of the pissed off people decides to give the guy a taste of his own medicine. He starts using the move exclusively on the guy. But he manages to catch someone else with the move while killing the first spammer. The guy HE kills ends up spamming the move too, now, to fight off TWO guys using the move. And it spreads. Until the whole server is dominated by assmasters doing one move over and over again like a broken record. Maybe a few other people join in the game and try to fight 'em off using different moves. And maybe they can fight off one or two of 'em. But then three or four others show up, and cluster around them, all trying to backstab each other, and even if you ARE agile and fast, you get caught in the crush eventually. As everyone backs into each other and spams the move over and over and over again. The game ceases to be fun.

THAT's my problem with it. Aside from it being cheap and not really belonging in the game, it's just no damn fun playing on a server dominated by one move.

I can handle myself easily against a single opponent spamming this move. I'll just keep running and kicking the guy until he stops. Or I'll dodge, or throw, or use lightning, etc. But against three or four assmasters, the game just isn't any fun and I lose interest VERY quickly.

THAT's the point.

05-14-2002, 11:45 PM
So, what, YOU can't handle people, so it's not fun, so it deserves to not be in the game? Hmm.

Well, you know, when I fight against 4 assmasters at once, I usually don't even try to backstab, as it requires standing still for longer than I like, I usually just change to red style and slash them to death since they are constantly swinging and unable to block.

OR you could do the yellow jump attack.

OR you can use force powers to protect yourself.

And against backstabbers/sweepers, it does NOT have to degenerate to that on your part. There ARE MANY ways of killing someone who is trying to MAKE HIMSELF VULNERABLE TO YOU. Next time it happens, try switching to red style and slash him to death as he flails around with his blue/yellow style. Now, if you can't avoid getting killed while do nothing that keeps you stationiary, then well, I'm sorry for you. You can pull someone down and axe chop them to death just as easily as you can pull someone down and backsweep them, it just so happens that the backsweep is a more guaranteed kill than the previous.

It comes down to this, if you can't handle newbies walking backwards, then you suck. If you don't know to not walk into a crowd of 4 people trying to assmaster each other, then you suck too.

It isn't only assmasters killing the assmasters. Not to even mention guns... and I don't know about you, but it's PRETTY HARD to expose yourself to and kill a guy running around with a gun while he's shooting you in the back and head.

And during 1on1 duels, I do use backstab/sweep, I just mix it in with everything else I do. The process of setting up a backstab/sweep does leave you open, and easy to kill if yo see it coming. Not really the best tactic to use 100% of the time, as you are constantly exposing yourself to the enemy. So you roll around, jump over your enemy, etc. I usually get ready to turn and back attack my enemy whenever I notice I am low on force, as you can usually expect to be pulled next to someone.

A good jedi uses every tool available to him, and if you think you can't beat 1 guy using a gay technique then you're sadly mistaken. Worst comes to worst, just use the light side, turn on Protect and it's all a moot point. Just WAIT for him to backstab you, even STAND BEHIND HIM to encourage it, and when he does, cut him in half. Even if he hits you too, you'll stay up and he'll go down.

I think it's the people like you who I get the most enjoyment against in combat. I use backstab/sweeps against random people, then they whine and I go kill 3 of them at once. Then they just all start trying to back attack like newbies, RUNNING AROUND BACKWARDS and I switch to red and hack them up. Then they whine some more and try fighting me normally again, and I sweep them all to death. If you aren't as able, don't try acting like it. And until you can successfully fend opponents from this tactic, and COME OUT ON TOP (which can be done!) then there is some obvious room for improvement. So instead of whining about people who are better than you, using the current best tactic in the game to kill someone because they CAN, go play some and get better and maybe you'll have a different view of it all tomorrow.

05-15-2002, 02:21 AM
>applauds Torin<

Well said, well said!


Spider AL
05-15-2002, 12:33 PM
Torin, you obviously haven't played against anyone savvy enough to knock you over before backswinging you. The backswing by itself is not the most annoying thing in olde christendom. Pull/Backswing is. Force games degenerate into "who pulls wins." It's a one shot stop. When prone, you can't "switch to red and hack them up" because you're lying down on the floor. They can't miss either. If as I do, your opponent is using absorb, it degenerates into "wait until he's run out, then pull/backswing him."

If all you play is NF, then... erm... Fine. Whatever turns you on. :rolleyes:

I think it's the people like you who I get the most enjoyment against in combat

This is just getting personal. Solo's just making his points, don't be childish.

05-15-2002, 01:37 PM
Yes, I have fought against people who pull me down before attempting to backsweep me. What do I do? GET UP!!! Start hitting the jump button the second they pull you, and TADA, no sweep! NOT TO MENTION, if you keep enough force power in reserve WHILE YOU ARE FIGHTING, then you will NEVER be pulled down to someone's feet. It's like you people have never played the game before, and don't even understand how force powers work. And, obviously if you don't use level 3 Push, then you deserve every pulling down that happens to you.

You are losing to force powers, not the backsweep. So, if I pull you to my feet, and instead axe chop you to death, does that still make the backsweep broken??

Geez. Try keeping some force power in reserve next time, and IF YOU RUN OUT, run away for a minute, regenerate a little force and run back in! TADA, NO PULL DOWNS! Imagine that..

JediKnight Dave
05-15-2002, 01:57 PM
you newb stfu omg please just go away Torin. people are piss because they want a good duel fight not ass in your face ****. i hope u use that name to play jk2 cause i am going find you and slap you around like a...

05-15-2002, 02:09 PM
Well, actually, yes, I do use Torin as my name in game.

So Mr. Know-It-All, since you know what people want and exactly why they are complaining, what makes a good duel?

I know that I don't run around ass first, so I obviously don't fit into your category. And when I duel, I am not always looking for an opportunity to backstab/sweep. I do however, switch to yellow and backsweep if ever I successfully pull them down on the ground to my feet, but generally I use heavy style and try to cut them down while they are frantically swinging, which is what all these backwards walking twits you refer to are doing.

So please, if you can't recognize a newb from someone's who has actually played the game, then I can't wait till you find me on a server, and I hope it's a duel server.

And Spider, you're right. I apologize Solo. I just get aggrevated easily by people whining about dying to a certain move over and over when it's obvious they aren't doing their part to avoid said move.

Spider AL
05-15-2002, 04:10 PM
Yes, I have fought against people who pull me down before attempting to backsweep me. What do I do? GET UP!!!

This isn't technically true, though it is true in the majority of cases as a lot of people who try the combo have trouble positioning themselves correctly to start the sweep. I and many others however, have cultivated the ability to pull and sweep in one single motion. No amount of button-tapping can help you evade it. That's why it's now known as the cheap one-hit-kill, and that's why it's the most popular move among those who wish to win. It's still boring however... I mean, since the move is so fast, one must use it almost exclusively. One tedious move all the time taints even the sweet, never-dulled taste of victory.

NOT TO MENTION, if you keep enough force power in reserve WHILE YOU ARE FIGHTING, then you will NEVER be pulled down to someone's feet.

That's simply not true. In the middle of a strike or shot, or while running, you can always be pulled or pushed with level 3 of both powers, regardless of your force stock. That's another reason the move is so prevalent, and cheap. Nobody but Absorb users like myself have any immunity to it.

And Jediknight Dave, you appear far too young to post on these boards.

05-15-2002, 04:22 PM
UT is the most ballanced and fun MP game that I have ever played. I dont really think that any game, except early versions of counterstrike (which i never played so I wont pretend to know about it), can stack up against it when it comes to MP. I didnt really like some of the guns, but that was just for cosmetic reasons usually. The redeemer is always fun if you can manage to get your hands on it. (insert The Beatles' song "yesterday" here) Sadly, I havent played that game in a while due to my newly found lack of a broadband connection. Those were the days.

05-15-2002, 06:55 PM
The potency of the move is exactly what I'm talking about in comparison to the shock combo of UT It's so damn useful. Is it cheap? Sorta. Is it a one hit kill? Almost always, if it hits right. Is it fast? Hell yeah, shock combo is real fast at close range, and so is the backstab. Backslash is a little slower, but it has a greater range.

Perhaps the shock combo is a bit more counterable than the backstab, but not by much.

All the backstab needs is a little bit of tweaking, and its a perfectly viable technique, much like the shock combo.

I must admit, though, clan games of UT became incredibly boring. It boiled down to "who can shock combo the fastest, and who can pin the enemy spawn points with combos." Bleh.