View Full Version : Saber Damage and Other Flaws
05-13-2002, 05:50 PM
I don't think that a hit from a saber should be a one hit kill. If hits from sabers were one-hit kills, Luke Skywalker would be dead, instead of handless. Who wants that? I think that saber damage should have a larger window. I think a normal light stance attack should do between 20 and 80 damage, depending on how solid the hit is. Medium, 30 to 120, Solid, 50 to 200. In single player, i can take a stormtrooper's head off very casually. This makes me feel like a jedi. When i kick someone over in multi-player and give him a heavy overhead slash to the chest while he's done, which by all accounts *should* be devastating, he hops back up and taunts me.
I was under the impression that a lightsaber was a large glowing laser sword that could cut through an AT-AT's armor. Remember that? Or how about when Qui-Gon melts through a blast door with one. Why is it again that this jerk just hopped back up to his feet after I hit him with the strongest possible strike to his unprotected and completely undefended torso? I suppose I could have attacked him with my ass and finished the job, but the idea of me having to do that is just ludicrous.
Saber combat should be exciting and dangerous. Imagine how anti-climactic it would have been if Obi-Wan slashed Darth Maul across the abdomen and he'd only been marginally wounded. "It's alright, I'm not cut in half or anything, It's just a scratch."
Also, if sabers were more dangerous, force powers would fade into the background and become the secondary powers that they are, as opposed to the primary offensive method.
I'm thinking about churning out a mod that makes a few changes like this, so I'm starting this thread. I would very much enjoy people's feedback about this stuff. I would love to hear about people's ideas for stance changes, weapon tweaks, force-power tweaks, etc. Anything and everything is welcome here.
Please don't flame this post, I'm serious about making something useful and fun for this community, because frankly I think this is just about the best game ever. The main problems with it are the choices made by the devteam ( I'm not criticizing them, it's difficult to predict what a community as a whole will think about something, and I think they were trying to please everyone. read: impossible ). I think if I could get a bunch of feedback and try and balance a few things out people would feel more like jedi when they play, as opposed to a force-spamming jerk with a glowing stick.
05-13-2002, 05:57 PM
I agree that the saber shouldn't be a one hit kill, but I made this post for anyother reason.
I'm just being picky, but, what you said at the start about luke being dead because of a one-hit kill isn't true. It is not possible to kill someone by chopping off their hand with the saber, because blood loss would be minimal due to its cauterising properties!!!
Sorry for being picky, just trying to boost my post-count really, as I said at the top, I do agree that the weapon shouldn't be a one-hit death machine in the game.
05-13-2002, 05:59 PM
Heheh. Yes, well, you're correct, which was more or less my point. I was just saying that as a disclaimer to get my point across quickly to the die-hard 1 hit people. Thanks for the bump, though.
05-13-2002, 06:01 PM
i actually whole-heartedly agree with this concept...
with the increased blocking, the saber SHOULD do more damage imho...
right now it definitely takes skill to win, but it's lacking a certain satisfaction...that feeling like you're holding something badass with the ability to kill someone. right now it feels like im smacking someone with a baseball bat, and i have to do it a bunch of times to make sure he's down.
05-13-2002, 06:03 PM
The way saber physics should be implemented depends a lot on the type of game. Physics for Duel aren't necesarily the best physics for CTF. And vice versa...
Throw force powers in, and you've even got a more complex system.
But if the damage system is too high, then the game becomes too random with too many lucky hits (think Counter-Strike :P).
1.03 seems ok for no-force dueling... but not so good for force-dueling or saber-only-force CTF :\
05-13-2002, 07:08 PM
I agree and disagree... In a game, you need to ensure it's balanced... and one hit kills arn't usualy the best way to go, espeicaly in a melee game... Not unless it is a bit like bushido blade... But that was one on one, and if you ask me was very bugged even though it was a lot of fun.
I personaly think the max damages should have remained the same, but I like the damage window idea... Basically in 1.02 blue did 30, yellow did I think 60, and red did 100 or so per hit no matter when the hit occurs in the swing.
In 1.03 the damage is more like:
20-30 for blue, 30-40 for yellow, and 30-80 for red...
Hmm let me think... LAME! Yellow was gimped in that way... Making it less useful to most people compared to red or blue... although I disagree that it's less useful, I do beleive it makes many people THINK it is less useful...
Overal in 1.02 you could single handedly take on 4 or more people if you had any clue how to play and they had just started recently. Now no matter how good you are, taking on more than 2 is a chore and a half, even if the enemies suck fat hairy nuts skill wise. It's just too hard to get a quick kill to thin out the herd now without resorting to spam... this is why I play now on duel servers, and FFA servers... Team FFA now is now too much if the teams are too large... totaly random in who gets the kill, and less fun if you ask me... But in one on one, or two on one duels or otherwise, this patch has made me very happy thus far.
ANYWAY heheh, I think it should have been:
20-30 for blue, 30-60 for yellow, and 50-100 for red.
This means you only need a minimum of two or three swings to kill someone with shields of varying strengths when using red. 3 or four for yellow, and 9 or ten for blue.
although this might not be FULLY realistic... Please note that it kind of is in a way... technically in real life losing your hand would end the fight as surely as losing your head... having a limb chopped off hurts enough as it is... cauterizing it must hurt even more! Have you ever tried using a sword, or swining a baseball bat with a tiny cut on your finger? Hard after a while isn't it?
Anyway 1-3 hits is all that is needed if your out of shields...
When coupled with the Damage windows (lowest amount of damage at beginning and end of swing highest neart the middle), one hit kills are still possible, but you can take risks... even if you have no shields... before the only option you had was running for shields when you got hurt.
As for the saber being a Laser... ERNT! Wrong there... common misconception though, so I won't hold it against anyone... for an idea of what a saber would probably be like check out this site: http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm My favorite is the 6th idea personaly. Though I feel the blade of the saber is NOt wieghtless, at the very least it probably would be a very awkward weapon without some form of wieght/mass/inertia in the blade... even if the blade is very light, if all the wieght/balance is in the handle, the Saber is more like a glorified flashlight, and fighting another saber user, with or without the force would be suicidal at best. for example to win any fight all you have to do is snap your wrist back and forth very quickly in the right places... I know some people feel it is only because the props in the movies had a blade that makes them move like it's a real blade... but for me this doesn't sit right. Like I said, very light blade maybe, but wieghtless? I doubt it... It would be IMHO silly.
Now on to Counterstrike:
I don't think anything in Cs is really random, at least not anything up to the latest 1.4 patch (which I haven't played).
I have been playing since 5.0 and I can tell you, if you think hitting someone is very random, you haven't been playing long. However I WILL agree they did tweak the hell out of the recoil effects of firing your weapon tho the point where it IS a bit more random than it used to be, it is STILL easily controlable...
In CS if you want to spot the best players, they are the ones crouching and firing 2-3 round bursts with any of the Assault rifles.
In my opinion the colt Carbine, and the AK are two of the most accurate non scoped guns in the game, with the commando coming in second unless scoped. But only in the right hands.
Most people just spray and pray with the various guns in CS. then they wonder why I can own the server with a 5-1 ratio even though I am shooting less...
Besides in ANY online game or any simulation you NEED an element of randomness to mimic how random things happen in real life. for example in Cs you cannot simulate the recoil on your gun in a force feedback way... IE you don't really learn how to shoot...
The only way to compensate for this inability to have total control, is to simulate the control a skilled rifleman might have with his weapon, by putting in randomized variables for the recoil ETC.
anyway liked your ideas overall man :) and it was different from the usual 1.03 SUCKS YOU BITCHES! posts... thanks :)
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