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View Full Version : what should raven do for the next patch?


blowdpanis
05-13-2002, 09:07 PM
i think this is a tricky subject...

i'm actually kind of amazed raven changed the gameplay as much as they did in 1.03. changing things drastically from the release version is kind of dangerous in my eyes...i suppose the logic in excusing this was that multiplayer came to mimic singleplayer, so the transition was easier than just a brand new form of gameplay.

i kind of like the idea of mimicing single player...but they left it at that and it doesn't seem like it completely fits into multiplayer. as many, many people have suggested the actual DAMAGE caused by the lightsaber seems too little...while it might be seen as fostering more skill to execute MORE hits, i'll use the following example:

say in quake3 (or name any other game with a cool weapon) the rockets did half of their normal damage...while it might technically be true that it takes greater aim/patience to kill someone with reduced damage as such, part of the 'fun' is lost in feeling that the weapon is no longer deadly. it's kind of a no-brainer that people use the lightsaber to kick some ass with...if it takes *7* hits to kill somebody with something that slices through steel, skill or no skill, part of the fun is honestly lost.

i don't think raven can afford to try out all kinds of concepts, though...that will be left to the mod community. for the next patch i think they have one, maybe 2 chances to establish the 'base' off of which everyone will operate. they can't keep tweaking endlessly or they'll alienate progressively more people. obviously it's their game and it's up to them, but i hope they look through forums like this for constructive criticism in regards of what is wise and unwise to change.

i remember id software bringing in various clan people to test out the quakes, which wasn't an entirely bad idea. i hope they work with people who have a strong pule of the competitive community and can represent their needs in the vast configuration of what the majority wants.

i'm curious what other people think about this subject...can raven afford to keep releasing patches that alter the gameplay like such?

NeoTrunks
05-13-2002, 09:18 PM
I personally don't have a hard time killing with the saber. The damage seems fine to me. Anyone who has a very long saber fight probably doesn't know what they're doing. My only gripe is the backstab. No, not what you're thinking. Anyone notice, that if you're infront of the guy backstabbing (he's backstabbing the guy behind him, not you) you still take full damage if he hits you with the butt of the saber? That's just kinda weird. You go in forward, and you die by tapping his saber handle. As for the damage, it should be reduce at the end of the stab. It's like the old DFA; you touch the saber after it's done moving and you still take full damage. Same with the sweep. Those two things don't bother me all that much. I actually love what they did with the new patch. Makes MP much more enjoyable after you beat SP. After I beat SP, I was disappointed with MP's sabering. Now, it's almost at the SP level. Keep it up Raven.

BlackDove
05-13-2002, 09:31 PM
Already discussed in other threads, someone needs to close this, the "individuality" syndrome has been dragging far enough....

blowdpanis
05-13-2002, 10:09 PM
i think you're kind of missing the point...

lots of people are complaining about what should change, others defending changes.

is anyone addressing the larger scope of how much raven can afford to keep changing things without creating schisms in the jedi knight community? if that's already been addressed, then excuse my lack of meticulous browsing, but i haven't seen it yet.

BlackDove
05-13-2002, 10:18 PM
Yeah I got the point allright...the point is that everyone wants their own little JK2 where they can't lose, and when they do lose, they blame the patch...now the thing is that some things need to be changed, however as much as that is creative, threads are being spawned, and they are being CONSTANTLY spawned, which is kind of stupid and not very sane. Just stick to one topic, don't go and create another one about the same thing.....

blowdpanis
05-13-2002, 10:22 PM
i created a new topic because i felt this specific point was not being properly addressed.

if you don't like that, i suggest not reading the thread instead of whining within it that it shouldn't exist :)

Rocketman
05-13-2002, 10:27 PM
they should fix the bug that makes your vision not looked ducked when you really are when your holding the saber in first person single player.

i'd like to see every switch and lever be able to be activated by force push level 2, farther away with level 3. that would be really sweet. like the vader finger point.

maybe make multiple style sabers for people to choose in multi player.

perhaps make it so the enemies can't see you through everything, like when you JUST peek out of a door and one of those damn rodians snipes your eye from a mile away in .01 secodns. make them slower for all characters in seeing you when you first com eout, or make the sniper shots blockable by the saber, at least in multi.

make force pushing missile type weapons like rockets and grenades easier to deflect back. ESPECIALLY secondary fire reapeater. both single and multiplayer.

make the weapons projectiles go faster. i mean for crying out loud a freakin LASER going so slow, even slower than in the movie it seems.

Rocketman
05-13-2002, 10:29 PM
oh and fix the damn multi bug where when you get pushed on your ass sometimes you freeze once you get back standing for a second or two, like you cant move your saber.

BlackDove
05-13-2002, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by blowdpanis
i created a new topic because i felt this specific point was not being properly addressed.

if you don't like that, i suggest not reading the thread instead of whining within it that it shouldn't exist :)

It's taking up space, wether I read it or not...and the specific point HAS been discussed about 50 times by now...

Now, if you are lazy to look and read all other posts, that is your problem, but please dont bring that kind of **** AGAIN...look at other threads...they are having the same discussion over and over and over

blowdpanis
05-13-2002, 10:45 PM
alright, then point me to a thread where discussing the impact of continual changes by raven in terms of the competitive community is being addressed.

what should be changed, ie good vs. bad, pro patch vs con patch is not what i'm addressing per se.

inferno81x
05-13-2002, 10:46 PM
I know it's probably a bit much to ask, but Raven really should fix the bugs in the Multiplayer bot code.

If you don't know what I'm talking about- try and Force Push a bot through an area you know to have a 'Do Not Enter' brush (like off the edge of the Bespin Air Vanes) and see what happens.

NeoTrunks
05-13-2002, 11:04 PM
Um.. something crawled up his ass and died. Well anyway, we're not complaining. We're just talking about the next patch. I love the patch.

w1ggl3s
05-13-2002, 11:32 PM
My thoughts for 1.04
I wrote this as a response but i think it should be a thread

These are wiggles thoughts on 1.04 and what he would like to see to try and balance out all the game styles of jk2.



First of Dfa Was Far from un stopable.

Infact i got killed more times DFAing Intelligent players then I did using a straight up broad swing.

There is a moment in 1.02 where dfa leaves the guy totaly open.

he can be pulled. Hit, kicked.

-------------------

Absorb is way to pwrfull

Invis absorb so over imbalances the game its not even funny.

Then to give the game an almost impenetrable defense.

Fast action chaotic games like saber/force only ctf goes right out the drain.

If you took backstab out. A player with absorb rolling around the map would never die.

The only way is to

A: get hella lucky with a pull and hope u kill him in one shot.
B: get hella lucky with a dfa and hope it dont get blocked
C: Get hella lucky with normal hit.
d: crowd him into a corner with all your buddies and turn around and spam backstab.


Seriously this 1.03 patch has slowed the tempo down of ctf games to a boring level. You can take so many chances now and not get burned its rediculas.

Do i like some things about 1.03?

Ya the ping pong from saber hits is gone.. No more baseball home runs from getting tapped by a saber.

The extra offensive moves are sweet.

To much saber collission.

Come on guys this isnt rl. we cant have everything perfect .

This is the internet, with thousands of variables we cant even see going on, not to mention various lag components.

most of the well timed shots i have in 1.03 glance harmlessly off.

I think Light/med/heavy should be 70/80/100

Light gets blocked a bit more then med

Med gets blocked a bit less then light and has a slight chance of stunning the aponent.

heavy Often stuns the oponent and can destroy the enemie in a big hit.

These weapons are weak now.

Im sorry but if a saber hit me. Ied be running like a mad man for the nearest bacta tank.

I think saber dmg should be huge. Being able to stun someone with a heavy hit should last long enough to get your combo off atleast.


Backing up should be slowed down considerably

Why game makers have not figured this out or balanced this Eons ago ill never figure out

Have you ever tried to walk backwards at the same speed of walking forwards? its un confertable. Ya cant see anything.


Rolling should take Force pwr.

Rolling should be used as Set ups. And for a quick get away .

Not roll around the map.

Absorb combined with roll ='s Inpenetrable defense.. only the highest speed can keep up with a good roller.


Absorb needs to either

a: Cost 2 times as much
B; when its on the mana cost should be much much greater.
c: should be taken off invis.

There are no down sides to absorb.

Easy recharge time.
Invis so players mistakenly give you mana.
Slow, and low pulse cost.

I meen come on cant anyone get a clue about that?

Heal/drain needs to be un nerfed

and whatever they did to Grip please change it back to normal.

Grip/drain is as valid as Absorb/forcepull

or absorb/heal

Or absorb/protect
or absorb/push

or absorb/invis
or absorb /speed

I hate it when players bitch to other players about how lame grip tactics are.

its a surprise attack Your supposed to die.

People cant stand Dieing/losing

SO they gotta complain tell they get there way.

This game for Ctf saber/force players has been slowed down so much it pains me to even log on.

1.02 is fast action, and paced.. NO ROOM FOR ERROR

You eff up? u pay the price.

I was chuckling to myself i got caught and some guy pulled me down and 30 guys hit me. Of course i died.

HAd that been 1.03?

I woulda lived, blocked them all, turned on absorb, used all the mana they gave me to heal myself back to full life, clicked the invis button and grabbed a buncha armor, ran to the flag grabbed it and run back to my base and turn it in.

You think 1.03 is tuff?

Go back and play 1.02. There was and never will be room for error.

I hope 1.04 is better balanced for us ctf saber/force only players.. I think ive come up with some viable solutions.

Sabers need to hit for more damage.. ANd they need to make the enemy pay. I dont like to play with my oponent. I like to kill or Die.. No room for mess ups.

Absorb needs to be nerfed (this comming from someone who has used absorb to live more often then not) it is a major imbalance to the game in ctf/saber/force only games.

Saber blocking and connection needs to be toned down alot.

Jump needs to be an option for those of us who tire of hitting jump twice.

My personal preference is to have dfa returned to its former way.

But the hit box and residual hit after the move is over, lessoned.

NOT THE PWR OF THE MAIN HIT

but that nasty hit u get if you time it wrong.

and back stab should be like the light backstab.

one oponent is effected.

I DO however think that backstab should be a Killer.

Do not nerf the backstab damage

Just take away the twirl. So that you have one hit, on one guy at one time. The guy your taking out.

This will leave the backstabber Open for attack. and people around him can not worry about getting hit from random sabers.

Dfa/backstab/themed, and light stance specials Should have no defense.

People should be able to easy hit them when they are doing those moves.

Walking backwards needs to be seriously Slowed down

rolling needs to take mana. Just like Jump.

Wether you add this to neutral pwrs or just give it a standard one bar of mana usage for all people

drain needs to take less of a mana hit.

Lighting needs to do more damage

Grip needs to be returned to its original thing( i think alot of grippers complained about that)

there are some of my ideas for 1.04

Wiggles

Homosexual Ewok
05-13-2002, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by Rocketman
oh and fix the damn multi bug where when you get pushed on your ass sometimes you freeze once you get back standing for a second or two, like you cant move your saber.
I thought it was just me...good to know others get this.;)
Actually I would not mind a new "get up" tactic in the next patch that is fast but does not involve jumping or flipping into the air. I have found an easy way to kill people (if more or less near a ledge) is pull them, but don't go for the backstab when they are down. Instead move so they are between the pit/hole and you. As they flip up to avoid the suspected backstab, just Force push them in the air to send them flying.
Maybe a quick side roll (faster than the current version)?

Darth Skyw@lker
05-14-2002, 12:03 AM
Saber do more dmg!

JaledDur
05-14-2002, 12:07 AM
Fix the explotable moves such as this classic favorite:

Push, turn around, down arrow, click, repeat.


All they have to do is push you down and then turn around and swing, thats it. At least with DFA you can get out of the way, but with this, you are totally helpless. And if you are moving trying to avoid their rear swings, you'll get your butt pushed on the ground a whole lot quicker...


Raven, I emplore you, dont go back to the way 1.02 was, but dont stay with this latest abomination. Just either:

A) Take out all the one hit kill moves or any other move that will be used repeatedly.

B) Make the special moves have a recovery time that is so great they are only used in special situations, and are not feasible for use all the time, such as what you did with the new DFA (bravo on that one btw).

HappyPrancer
05-14-2002, 02:00 AM
Exploitable moves don't really bug me. If I think someone can kill me, I just run away anyways. People running around backwards never even get to fight me.

I'll tell you want Raven should do for their next GAME though: Get it right on the first try, then leave it alone. This "Release it and patch it later" mentality in the PC game industry really gets my panties in a bunch. You'll notice that console games do not get patched, and there is usually little complaining about balance issues. If some move is strong, then everyone uses it. Since there is no patch about to be released, no one (well, almost no one) complains about it. You also don't see the uproar that initiating serious balance modifications well after the release of a game brings about.

Now, I don't mind patches that fix genuine bugs (like game crashes). I feel a little miffed that these bugs were not fixed before the release date, but hey, they're only human. I think that the game should be balanced ON RELEASE. If it is not, then it's too late to fix it. Now Raven must deal with the people who bought the game, loved it, and now that it's patched want nothing to do with it. I think that it was very unproffesional of Raven to to **** with balancing issues this late in the game, and there are a number of very unsatisfied (paying) customers as a result.

Regardless of whether the game play was improved, JO is now a very different game than what I, and many others, shelled out the dough for. Raven: Congrats on alienating such a large group of your consumer base.

I know I would be much more willing to deal with a delayed release date while the kinks get worked out than having to put up with this **** later on. Of course, you already have my money, don't you Raven?

-HP

Lord Sokar
05-14-2002, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by =SSC=Kal-El
Already discussed in other threads, someone needs to close this, the "individuality" syndrome has been dragging far enough....

After hanging around this site for a week, it never ceases to amaze me how much of a prick you are.

Are you really that threatened by 'individualty'? What country do you hail from?