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Ascari
05-14-2002, 03:30 PM
How do u guys think about the new respawn (cloning) that will be implemented in SW:G

Ascari
05-14-2002, 03:35 PM
PS.


If u have "Rather have something else"


plz post what u rather have then :)

Darth Maxx
05-14-2002, 03:43 PM
Rather have cloning than dying.

Ascari
05-14-2002, 03:49 PM
Personally I think it's a great idea.


I know it's a bit against the continuity but it's the best solution so far.

Zendjir
05-14-2002, 03:51 PM
I would rather see 'normal' saving points, rather than cloning vats. I think a normal respawn would not do either, just hitting the attack button and appearing in town (like Ascari said while I was chatting with him).

Maybe 'ghosts' are a better option;

Every1 has a spirit, when some1 dies this spirit is set free. When a spirit is very strong (mentally strong) it can make itself visible to other people (like Yoda, Anakin and Kenobi could). The other spirits are there....you just can't see em.
In SWG, when you die your spirit appears near the last 'savepoint' you made; you must then go back to your body and drain its material energy to be 'normal' again. If you cant find or recover your body you can go to a healer type character (someone with some power in the force) who can materialize you back to normal. This last option has to have some penaltys so that players don't immidiatly rush to the closest healer after being killed.

just my 2 cents

Ascari
05-14-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Zendjir
I would rather see 'normal' saving points, rather than cloning vats. I think a normal respawn would not do either, just hitting the attack button and appearing in town (like Ascari said while I was chatting with him).

Maybe 'ghosts' are a better option;

Every1 has a spirit, when some1 dies this spirit is set free. When a spirit is very strong (mentally strong) it can make itself visible to other people (like Yoda, Anakin and Kenobi could). The other spirits are there....you just can't see em.
In SWG, when you die your spirit appears near the last 'savepoint' you made; you must then go back to your body and drain its material energy to be 'normal' again. If you cant find or recover your body you can go to a healer type character (someone with some power in the force) who can materialize you back to normal. This last option has to have some penaltys so that players don't immidiatly rush to the closest healer after being killed.

just my 2 cents


How will u be able to do this when your body has exploded in a million pieces?

for instance when some1 blows your ship up?

Juztyn
05-14-2002, 04:05 PM
I think it's a great idea, but the implementation is off. Forcing someone to visit a clong facility ever-so-often isn't the best thing in the world. :\

Saiyan22
05-14-2002, 04:06 PM
say you die somewhere that's not so safe (why you died in the first place) like alone in the middle of an imperial base surrounded by at-st's and at-at's and the likes....

if your cloned, your basically naked...all your "uninsured" items are on your body. that's got to be a bitch to get them back. perhaps if you log off your corpse will appear in your hut/home or lot?

Ascari
05-14-2002, 04:15 PM
Originally posted by Saiyan22
say you die somewhere that's not so safe (why you died in the first place) like alone in the middle of an imperial base surrounded by at-st's and at-at's and the likes....

if your cloned, your basically naked...all your "uninsured" items are on your body. that's got to be a bitch to get them back. perhaps if you log off your corpse will appear in your hut/home or lot?


I believe I read somewhere that u can also store your items somewhere...


dont sue me if i'm wrong though.

Jan Gaarni
05-14-2002, 04:15 PM
That's why you have a house ... to leave important items you have collected so you don't lose them. :p

Hey, Juztyns back. :)

What ever you do, people, if Juztyn offers you choclate coated Gnorts. DON'T EAT THEM!!!!! SAY NO!!!! :eek:

You've been warned. :D

Lord Helmet
05-14-2002, 08:05 PM
what are you talking about uninsured items...if you die with uninsured items im sured they'll be looted by your killer or someone around you

Lord Helmet
05-14-2002, 08:10 PM
one mroe thing...question* if you never got oa cloning facility its like having a permenent death...io wouldn't like that so i tihnk every time you complete a quest it automatically clones oyu...something of the sort

gavor
05-14-2002, 10:49 PM
Great idea. I just posted my thoughts on this at swgdownunder and i'm all cloning discussioned out for now.

:explode:

Amit69
05-14-2002, 11:05 PM
hmm, i think they should use something similar to diablo2, where when you die you lose gold(credits) and some exp, and your naked body would respawn in your house. You can go back to wherever you died to get your corpse back or you can just log off and back on and your corpse will be in your house.

MikeC
05-14-2002, 11:27 PM
Frankly, I predicted this one a LONG time ago.

It stays pretty well with the continuity. It's certainly better than any alternatives that have been posted here.

There is nothing we know of indicating non-Jedi ghosts. There is absolutly NO reason to think that your ghost going back to your body would revive you. And what if your body is floating in a vacuum? (after the space expansion of course)

Just respawning back at your house? Please, that's so not Star Wars. This way gives you a way to do it and stay with the feel of the game.

I think it perfectly fits that you have to go to cloning facilities to create your backup. How else would your clone be made?

The only possibly better way to go (that I can see) is the bacta tank (ie you aren't really dead and could be revived). If you look at our main page you will see the Dev's reasoning for going with cloning over bacta.

Ulic Quel Droma
05-14-2002, 11:57 PM
i just dont like the fact that you have to pay differnt amounts for how good your character is

gavor
05-15-2002, 12:57 AM
I think thats perfectly logical. The more skills you have to store, the more it's going to cost you. I'm really beginning to warm to this idea, it adds a more risk to being killed. Hopefully it makes people take a little more care and treat death a lot more seriously.

If there was nothing to lose, who would care about dying?

Ulic Quel Droma
05-15-2002, 01:48 AM
Yeah but then what happens if you cant afford it? how are you sposed to clone yourself

gavor
05-15-2002, 02:48 AM
<shrug> Thems the breaks of a capitalist society. Go earn some money I suppose.

Who really knows how much it will cost. It doesnt bother me. I'd prefer the challenges to be challenging and I don't expect everything to go my way. If you don't have the $$$ to clone yourself, sit down and work out a way to get those $$$ without risking your life. I'd hate it if everything in SWG was handed to people on a platter.

Wraith 8
05-15-2002, 04:54 AM
well first of all:

i think it is a good idea

second:

Juztyn is back :D grab him.. nail him to the floor :D

Saiyan22
05-15-2002, 12:46 PM
if you choose a "safer" occupation, like manufacturer or shop keeper where you get exp by making stuff and not having to battle, you won't have to clone yourself as much, cuz your at less risk...

the bountyhunters,soldiers, adventurers who go out and hunt animals/monsters/stormtroopers for exp/drops will be the ones who have to clone themselves more often.

shopkeepers and politicians and city oriented people will just have to worry about pk's and bounties...they won't have to spend as much time in cloning facilities....

perhaps this will be taken under consideration and adventurer types will get cheaper cloaning fees...

Ascari
05-15-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Saiyan22
if you choose a "safer" occupation, like manufacturer or shop keeper where you get exp by making stuff and not having to battle, you won't have to clone yourself as much, cuz your at less risk...

the bountyhunters,soldiers, adventurers who go out and hunt animals/monsters/stormtroopers for exp/drops will be the ones who have to clone themselves more often.

shopkeepers and politicians and city oriented people will just have to worry about pk's and bounties...they won't have to spend as much time in cloning facilities....

perhaps this will be taken under consideration and adventurer types will get cheaper cloaning fees...



We have yet to find out how much money 1 clone will cost.

Personally i'm against cloning ( ethically speaking that is )

And my plan is never to die :)

Zendjir
05-15-2002, 01:37 PM
A clone would probably cost alot (in reality).

Crazy_dog no.3
05-15-2002, 04:54 PM
I agree with Zen. It probably won't be in, but it would be cool to be a ghost.:)

Zendjir
05-15-2002, 05:17 PM
Yay! someone agrees with me :D

*jumps, while cheering and throwing rose-leaves into the air

FWB
05-15-2002, 05:49 PM
Something like this is being developed in another MMRPG called Neocron. That game has gene replicting factilities. For a price, a very high price, you can "save" your charcter to a machines loacted throughout the game world. If you die, you lose all your experience up until your last saved position (if you're new and haven't saved, well then you'll be starting from scratch). I think such an idea is pretty neat and would do well in SWG.

setsuko
05-15-2002, 06:54 PM
You say that now.

Wait until you are the one losing 49 hours of gaming experience because you get blasted to oblivion on your way to your next clone-save.

Possible reply by then:

"Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! !"

:)

Ascari
05-15-2002, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by setsuko
You say that now.

Wait until you are the one losing 49 hours of gaming experience because you get blasted to oblivion on your way to your next clone-save.

Possible reply by then:

"Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!! !"

:)


I dont believe they will make it expensive to clone yourselve...



At least, that's what I understand from what the devs say.

setsuko
05-15-2002, 08:31 PM
I am not speaking of expensive. I am speaking of not being available at all places. Say you go for a looong trek, find this really cool dungeon with treasures, after a long and hard fight, you manage to grab that rare holoprojector worth lotsa dough, and you make your long and ardous way back to town...

BLAM! shot by a rogue band of sandpeople.

What I mean is that there won't be able to save every hour, no matter how cheap it is, if the only place to save is in the major towns.

Lord Helmet
05-15-2002, 08:57 PM
then dont joina faction and they'll have a hard time killing you...now wont they

setsuko
05-15-2002, 08:59 PM
the MOBs won't have a hard time killing you, no.

Gaalgoth
05-15-2002, 09:27 PM
Oh come on guys, there needs to be some punishment to dying or else tehre's really no point in avoding it. This'll make sure you pay attention to your character, and if players can run clone shops then we have a new occupation right there. Besides, it's not that bad.....at least we can come back to life. They could have made it perma death.

setsuko
05-15-2002, 09:32 PM
Hmm.. true, AO have the same system, and it's a little bit annoying, but far less than in EQ (ie, losing all your possessions, having to backtrack to your corpse or lose EVERYTHING permanently). Though, I hope you don't have to insure all your items individually, which would be slow and tedious, but instead they'll give you a bulk prize for everything you have on you when you approach the terminal.

What I do hope is that there will be more than one terminal in each town, and that there'll be some scattered at various outposts. Otherwise, they'll be rather crowded!

Ascari
05-15-2002, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by setsuko
Hmm.. true, AO have the same system, and it's a little bit annoying, but far less than in EQ (ie, losing all your possessions, having to backtrack to your corpse or lose EVERYTHING permanently). Though, I hope you don't have to insure all your items individually, which would be slow and tedious, but instead they'll give you a bulk prize for everything you have on you when you approach the terminal.

What I do hope is that there will be more than one terminal in each town, and that there'll be some scattered at various outposts. Otherwise, they'll be rather crowded!



Lol, 1 hour line to clone yourselve :)


now I can see how that can be annoying

setsuko
05-15-2002, 09:49 PM
"come on, stop pushing! I have to insure this collection of bantha droppings now that I got 10 000 of them, so wait until I am done"

Noooo!

But yeah, with a couple of terminals in each town, and a modest cost, it might work. I believe that the theory will stand or fall on whether there is enough terminals (the idea of one big house in each town sounds terrible, it would be a very crowded place at primetime). But yeah, if they are EVERYWHERE, there would be no penalty for death. I hope for a healthy number in between.

Saiyan22
05-15-2002, 09:56 PM
what happens if you time out/ISP drops?
is that basically the same as dying in this system?
do you have to save before you log out all the time?
maybe you can save before you log out and save as many times as you want, so you can log on/off many times without cloning...but if you die, those saves are bypassed and it goes back to your clone save....except for your items maybe...because cloning doesn't save them....ahhh...i've gone cross-eyed again...:confused:

setsuko
05-15-2002, 10:10 PM
Saiyan22, here comes my guesses;

//Q:what happens if you time out/ISP drops?
A: In most systems, you simply stand around, and if the server gets no replies from you in, say, a minute, your character is saved, or you are killed during that period, and you go back to your last insurance (clone).

//Q:is that basically the same as dying in this system?
A: Propably not. That would be to be punished for having a bad ISP, not for playing badly. But if it happens in combat, you are likely to die anyway.

//Q:do you have to save before you log out all the time?
A: Saving and cloning is not the same thing. Saving is propably done by sitting down and typing /quit, as in any other MMORPG, which means that you wait for a while, and then your position and condition is saved, and you go back there when you log in again. Logging out without saving is only possible by pulling the cable to the modem, or turning of your computer.

//Q:maybe you can save before you log out and save as many times as you want, so you can log on/off many times without cloning...but if you die, those saves are bypassed and it goes back to your clone save....except for your items maybe...because cloning doesn't save them....
A: yes, that sounds like a qualified guess. Saving is done when you log out, cloning is done at a cloning thingy. Saving means you go back to where you were when you log in, cloning means you go back to where you cloned when you die. Two different things.


ahhh...i've gone cross-eyed again...
A: yes. :)

Remember, this is not based on any official words, this is based on my MMORPG experience. Nothing else. The devs MIGHT **** it all up, and you go back to your clone when your log, or something like that. However, this is what I expect as both most likely, and what would work best (IMHO).

If anyone has any other idea, I would be interested to hear it.

Gaalgoth
05-15-2002, 10:15 PM
If it works out like setsuko has stated, a good idea would be to go to a cloning facility first thing every time you log in, unless you cloned yourself right before you quit last time.

setsuko
05-15-2002, 10:21 PM
I'd say you'll propably go safe with just logging until you expect to get "into trouble". For instance, before going on a hunt or a risky space travel, you clone.

So, some professions will have you treating the clone center as your second home, while some will go there only once in a while, when they feel like insuring their hardearned skills.

Gaalgoth
05-15-2002, 10:24 PM
heh, yeah, those softy money dealers won't have much need for the cloning...its us hard working bounty hunters and law enforcement personnel that have it tough =)

FWB
05-16-2002, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by Gaalgoth
Oh come on guys, there needs to be some punishment to dying or else tehre's really no point in avoding it. This'll make sure you pay attention to your character, and if players can run clone shops then we have a new occupation right there. Besides, it's not that bad.....at least we can come back to life. They could have made it perma death.

My thoughts exactly. Death must mean something. Of course you're not going to be happy when it happens to you, who is, but it is just a game and so you get back on your saddle and try again. Without a major punishment for dying, risks will deteriate. This in turn means that players will be willing to pretty much do anything: try and collect a hard bounty, slay some major beasts or enter some huge astroid field. What does that mean? Well you start to lose your unique players; those who are willing to take things to the edge. Everyone is willing to do it, because there are no risks.

I have no problem with cloning but it should be expensive (and proportional to the character type, i.e. a rich super alien pays much more for a save than some poor weakling of a creature) enough so that you can't save more than once a week/fortnight (for an average player). And yes, once you die, you lose all stats (not weapons, since they'll stay on your body) since your last save.

There's another MMRPG that is using a ticket system, whereby you have limited lives (I think they're starting out with 100 in beta, but naturally that may be adjusted). If you lose them all, that's it, you need to start over again. Sounds interesting to me and should also promote character recycle.

Zendjir
05-16-2002, 07:25 AM
I remember a game, the legacy of Khaine, where you could collect items that gave you extra lives. And these items became rarer and rarer. I think that could be an option too.

But I think it's really important to let death mean something. That it means so much that you are sweating like hell while you are walking in a dangerous area ''please, don't let me die, please''
I love that in games.

Ascari
05-16-2002, 09:38 AM
Originally posted by FWB


My thoughts exactly. Death must mean something. Of course you're not going to be happy when it happens to you, who is, but it is just a game and so you get back on your saddle and try again. Without a major punishment for dying, risks will deteriate. This in turn means that players will be willing to pretty much do anything: try and collect a hard bounty, slay some major beasts or enter some huge astroid field. What does that mean? Well you start to lose your unique players; those who are willing to take things to the edge. Everyone is willing to do it, because there are no risks.

I have no problem with cloning but it should be expensive (and proportional to the character type, i.e. a rich super alien pays much more for a save than some poor weakling of a creature) enough so that you can't save more than once a week/fortnight (for an average player). And yes, once you die, you lose all stats (not weapons, since they'll stay on your body) since your last save.

There's another MMRPG that is using a ticket system, whereby you have limited lives (I think they're starting out with 100 in beta, but naturally that may be adjusted). If you lose them all, that's it, you need to start over again. Sounds interesting to me and should also promote character recycle.


All I have to say is:


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO



That would so suck, after a long hard time u have a good developed character. and u die. and it's al GONEEEEEEE :(

C]-[33S3/\/\@N
05-16-2002, 12:41 PM
Cloning facilitys, and a need for them to be visited frequently, SHOULD set up some pretty reliable trade routes/centres for those less inclinded to the dangerous paths, and becomes some type of trader...................hmmm

Just a thought

Cheers :c3po:

MikeC
05-16-2002, 01:21 PM
Hey, new career. Cloning technitian.

FWB
05-16-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Zendjir

But I think it's really important to let death mean something. That it means so much that you are sweating like hell while you are walking in a dangerous area ''please, don't let me die, please''
I love that in games.

Bingo. Operation Flashpoint was brilliant at recreating tension because of the one save per mission. Sure it got a tad annoying when you died for the fifth time, but then actually sat down and started to think things through, approach the problem from a different angle. On top of whcih, you haven't experienced fear in a game until you're sitting in your village, with your one life, and suddenly the sound of enemy tanks rolling of the hill breaks the calm. :)

In that game I mentioned with the limited lives they are planning to have items in chests that give you more. I really, like the idea. On top of which, as I mentioned you'll have more character recycling. A person joining or starting a fresh in a world that has been running for a long time, won't have to worry about everyone around him being so much "better" than him, since the number of high level charcters will be kept in check.

I doubt SG will have anything like this, since it'll be catering to the general masses and I fear they'd rather have death as nothing more than smidge of an inconvenience. But one can dream...

Ascari
05-16-2002, 04:57 PM
Well,


I for one am glad they dont put such a system in...


1 thing I like in SWG is that everyone's Health is the same.
Your health and other attributes are determined by what specie u choose.

And u cant see the level of other players, what would make for some interesting duels :)

Saiyan22
05-16-2002, 10:36 PM
i beleive the more str you have the more hp's you have in your pool. str makes the pool bigger while another attribute makes in regenerate faster.

i think this was on the database site

Lord Helmet
05-16-2002, 10:40 PM
can you have monre than one clone of yourself at a time...will it be a one deal thing..liek you get cloned will your character be saved like that forever can you have multiple saves of the same guy...and if you have enough money can you create an army of yourself?

Saiyan22
05-16-2002, 11:24 PM
the last time you save (donate dna to cloning bank:D ) it will replace your old clone/dna sample. your clone is inactive until you die, so there will only be one of you at a time

Gaalgoth
05-16-2002, 11:45 PM
Saiyan...I dunno where you read that, but your hp never increases. Strength raises one thing....strength. not health.

Saiyan22
05-17-2002, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by Gaalgoth
Saiyan...I dunno where you read that, but your hp never increases. Strength raises one thing....strength. not health.
read this:
http://swg-de.emr.net/a9.php
the whole system of pools is that one attribute increases your pool, while the other regenerates it.

Ascari
05-17-2002, 08:20 AM
Originally posted by Saiyan22

read this:
http://swg-de.emr.net/a9.php
the whole system of pools is that one attribute increases your pool, while the other regenerates it.


I am sure I read in the official faq that everyone's health stays the same...

Saiyan22
05-17-2002, 10:41 AM
here's some excerts from that article linked above:

1) Health Pool, Strength, Constitution
2) Action Pool, Quickness, Stamina
3) Mind Pool, Focus, Will Power

An example:
(all values are freely made up!)
Ania has 200 Health Pool, 10 Constitution and 5 Strength
Jon has 500 Health Pool, 5 Constitution and 20 Strength



Situation 1: Ania and Jon are both hit by a grenade which causes a subtraction of 250 points from the health pool. Jon can take the hit while Ania is immediately incapacitated.
Situation 2: Jon and Ania duel in unarmed combat. Because of her lack of training, Ania only hits Jon for about 6 points per round, while Jon achieves roughly 9 points per round. Ania will still win the fight, because her health regenerates at 10 points per round, while this value is only at 5 points per round for Jon.
Situation 3: A large crate blocks the way into an airing vent. It would take 15 points from the health pool to push the crate away. Only Jon can perform this action, because these 15 points have to be ‘paid’ all at once, and Ania can only spend 5 points at a time because of her low strength. Jon with his 20 strength points has no problems here.

Saiyan22
05-17-2002, 10:53 AM
perhaps if you have a large enough mind pool, you will be immune to jedi mind tricks..

or maybe mind tricks will drain your pool slowly, so if its low, you might be vulnerable to them

Jan Gaarni
05-17-2002, 11:14 AM
Health does not change, but you will be able to increase constitution, thus less health will be lost the higher constitution you have.