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Bl4de
05-15-2002, 05:36 PM
How about people stop criticising Raven for "such a horrible job" they did? Until you can code a game like JK2, don't criticise them and say they suck and they ruined the game with 1 patch.

They listen to the community, they didn't include anything in the patch no one asked them to include. You all whine about how Raven ruined the game, well in part, people from the community ruined the game, Raven just coded it in based off people's opinions.

I'm talking to all of the mature, intelligent people on this board. Not people who say Raven sucks, blah blah blah. Please keep this post civilized.

Anyhow, I fail to see the reason how they "ruined" the game, the only major things they changed where heal DFA drain, and made sabers do alittle less damage to make battles more interesting and challenging. No more "press attack and hope you hit" no more "if I have more health than him I will win" (which is true in the old patch, unless the other person got lucky). Now it's so balanced it couldn't be better, despite the fact of the ever-so growing popularity of the push + backstab/sweep combination.

If you complain about the patch, it's 95% of the time going to be because of one of those 4 things. I respect people who actually point out flaws in the game (such as graphic issues, crash issues, error messages, ect.), but not all of these children who hate not being able to kill in 1 - 2 hits. If you want that to happen, wait 'till someone makes a sort of "Instagib" mod for JK2, just like Raven did with the Elite Force expansion pack.

And if you complainers (just for those 4 reasons) keep yelling and whining long enough with uneventful posts and flames, I'm sure Raven will make the next patch based off of your "views". And guess what, it may be just me, but I have a feeling it will suck, and actually make the game suck, as you say it does now.

BTW, be mature if you want Raven to make a better patch, don't post stupid BS that Raven can't use to their advantage, and help Raven make a successful patch that EVERYONE agrees on.

I used to come to the boards and find people befriending one another and making small talk, showing off maps/models/skins ect. Now all I ever see is "whine whine the patch sucks" "whine whine Raven sucks". Maybe if the people saying such things would look in a mirror and see how stupid they are, people might get along on these forums again, and not be divided over the first JK2 patch.

Master Rooster
05-15-2002, 05:55 PM
If you think this place is bad (and it is) don't even think about entering a cs forum. At leaast people speak English rather than netspeak here. Most games (or most shooters anyway) tend to have pretty angry forums. Just ignore everybody and hope they go away.

On a sort of related point, are mods appearing yet, or are they all skins/models/maps at the moment. I seem to recall a jedi vs mercenaries mod, but I can't think of any others.

[Dom_Pmd]
05-15-2002, 06:14 PM
Total Conversions
- Dark Forces, a recreation of the original game.
- Rebel Strike, a team based, goal oriented, multiplayer mod.
- Attack of the Clones mod, contact Anakin for more info.
- Dark Horizons, TC based on original story.
- Trigun: The Donut is Real, TC based on the populair anime Trigun.

Gameplay Mods
- Kaiburr Saga, this mod strives to fix the multiplayer part of JK2 by adding doublesaber combat, balancing force powers better, etc.


I got that from Mod Central (http://modcentral.jediknightii.net/)

:jango:

Demise_SOK
05-15-2002, 06:22 PM
Bl4de wrote:

"I fail to see the reason how they "ruined" the game, the only major things they changed where heal DFA drain, and made sabers do alittle less damage to make battles more interesting and challenging"

Heal and drain were needed tweaks in my opinion as well as the change to DFA. What you miss is sabers do ALOT less damage, their damage is now dependent on the arch of the swing and the most eronious change- the increase in autoblocking. Battles are no longer "interesting and challenging" they are stilted and boring, with endless and impossible saber-block flashes. More then ever battles depend on who can successfully get off a 'finishing move' mainly backstab.


Bl4de wrote:

"No more "press attack and hope you hit"

Wroonnngg, with autoblock well timed and executed saber swings can be all for nothing. With the new patch I find myself "pressing attack and hoping I hit" most of the time. A players mobility and defensive skill has now taken a backseat to letting the game do it for you.

Bl4de wrote:

"no more "if I have more health than him I will win" (which is true in the old patch, unless the other person got lucky)."

A jedi with lower health then their oponent should be disadvantaged. Frankly, I fail to see what this has to do with anything, many times I have survived against multiple opponents under 1.02 rules and less then 50 health.

Bl4de wrote:

"I respect people who actually point out flaws in the game (such as graphic issues, crash issues, error messages, ect.), but not all of these children who hate not being able to kill in 1 - 2 hits."

Children who aren't able to kill in 1 - 2 hits? Just learn or 'bind' backstab and you will be leading matches in every game!!

Bl4de wrote:

"keep yelling and whining long enough with uneventful posts and flames, I'm sure Raven will make the next patch based off of your "views". And guess what, it may be just me, but I have a feeling it will suck, and actually make the game suck, as you say it does now. "

WE CAN ONLY HOPE!! Since you seem so interested in 'uneventful' posts why don't you try to explain to me what would be wrong with-

1. Returning saber damage to its 1.02 level.
2. Removing or severely toning down autoblocking.
3. Respecting the saber for the dangerous weapon it is. NOT treating it like a 'sword' when it comes to making damage dependant on the point of contact in the arch.

Alot of posters in this community have pointed to these changes as being the major problems with the patch. Is that what you would consider an 'eventful' topic to discuss? If yes, please reply then. Your reactionary post to complaints of people who have become invested in this community in the past couple of months is very troubling to me.

Bl4de wrote:

"Now all I ever see is "whine whine the patch sucks" "whine whine Raven sucks". Maybe if the people saying such things would look in a mirror and see how stupid they are, people might get along on these forums again, and not be divided over the first JK2 patch."

Maybe if you practiced what you preach and respect the opinions of the people who make up this community instead of dismissing them as 'stupid' I could take you seriously. Sadly, I cannot.

Bl4de
05-15-2002, 07:47 PM
You are the reason these forums suck. Go away. I tried to have a civilized conversation here. Your pointing out things in my post was l-a-m-e. I'm not bashing anyone except the people who purposely make posts flaming people, and even saying "Raven sucks" "this game sucks" and I even saw "I'm not going to buy this game" who based his opinion off of things people said on this forum. That is what I was talking about. I didn't want your stupid post making me look like some sort of bad guy. Howabout you try not to pick apart posts that are trying to stop all this arguement, and start helping.

The point of having decreased damage is to make saber battles CHALLENGING, if you get bored you shouldn't be playing the game. How on God's earth anyone can be "bored" while fighting someone is either ADD or has a short attention span.

Before 1.03 all the stances where the exact same with the exception red could only attack once, and yellow did a tad bit more damage and only chained 4-5 attacks. Now it's balanced so well each stance actually feels DIFFERENT from the other. The reason people get mad over this is they don't take the time to practice and get better. It isn't that hard. Now post something CONTRIBUTIVE to the thread.

GB_StormTrooper
05-15-2002, 07:52 PM
If someones bothering you, just ignor them.

Spider AL
05-15-2002, 07:58 PM
posts that are trying to stop all this arguement

Bl4de, I'm sorry, but if your intention with this post was to STOP arguments about the patch, it's not a very servicable effort in my opinion,.. The language you've used throughout seems aggressive and inflammatory towards even the most innocent anti-patch lobbyists. Just my take, don't shoot me. :)

Vanor
05-15-2002, 08:08 PM
Originally posted by Demise_SOK
WE CAN ONLY HOPE!! Since you seem so interested in 'uneventful' posts why don't you try to explain to me what would be wrong with-

1. Returning saber damage to its 1.02 level.
2. Removing or severely toning down autoblocking.
3. Respecting the saber for the dangerous weapon it is. NOT treating it like a 'sword' when it comes to making damage dependant on the point of contact in the arch.

Alot of posters in this community have pointed to these changes as being the major problems with the patch.
I'd like to respond to this. All of those things were something many people asked for. People wanted saber fights to be more like SP. So Raven put in more blocking and made them do less damage.

If we did those 3 things, then we might as well just keep playing with the 1.02 patch and deal with DFA.

For the next patch, I think increasing the saber damage some would be fine, and toning down the blocking slightly, say 30-40% less offten then it is now, would be fine. But what you've sugested basicly is reverting back to how 1.02 was, and despite what anyone else may say, Raven was in fact doing what people here asked for when they made the 1.03 patch. You can like it or dislike it, feel it was made to put the newbies on even ground with the masters or whatever else you like. But you have to admit that Raven did what they did because of popular opinion on these boards.

HappyPrancer
05-15-2002, 08:28 PM
Blade,

I don't think that you must be a better programmer to criticize the horrible decision that Raven made. Being their paying customer who now owns a product very different from the one they originally purchased is MORE than enough.

YOu justify what they did by saying that they listened to the community. That is exactly why our democratic society is going down the crapper. PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS. They can't decide for themselves what they want (fascism is the key, despite its bad reputation).

Anyhoo, I'd be interested to hear a convincing argument that actually supports Raven's decision to change major gameplay issues after the game had been out for months. To me, that seems like a pretty big software development no no. I'm sure even they are regretting it. People are complaining more about the patch than they ever did about any exploited moves.

-HP

Bl4de
05-15-2002, 08:48 PM
Then give me a convincing arguement as to why this patch sucks. I have yet to hear one.

Spider AL
05-15-2002, 08:55 PM
If you've read the entirety of the 98 post-long "Post-patch: Yes, I feel cheap... (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52403) " thread, which I'm very proud to have posted in, and you still can't see any legitimate arguments (in your opinion) that the patch has a lot of problems, then I don't think anyone will be able to convince you. Which won't be our fault. ;)

Agen
05-15-2002, 08:55 PM
It's a true fact that mostp eople are morons, like why does Fifa series sell mroe than ISS PES? Also the auto blocking is almost ifen, i mean you don't see jefi being able to jsut hti them anywhere and they don't block, i eman it's fien the way it uis if they tone it dowen by abotu 10% the firing is fine if you acutally time your hits, like i don't mean run by and hit them but why not try hitting them when they are ont expecting you, like when they are firing, hit them in the torso region and roll away (especially you demise, sheesh)
And if you do want to blame anyone, blame lucasarts as they're the ones that told them to do what they did.
In general it's the acutal whiners fault, they were whining aobut 1.02 now they got punished for being *******s. but IMO it is better for dueling, CTFD has been damged badly but dueling and sabers are actually better.

Spider AL
05-15-2002, 08:57 PM
Oh duelling is MUCH better. But I want FFA and CTF to be as good as they used to be toooo. :(

Agen
05-15-2002, 09:04 PM
Oh, I know, i used to be a perfectly balanced at palying eveyrthing, but sicne the pathc i have stuck to duels sicne the CTF is so slow now and FFA is thrown way off balance.
Even if they were as good as they used to be i woudl be hsappy, but now they're not, it would be great if they were better but if it's sjut as good i'll be happy.

Prowl lightstar
05-15-2002, 09:13 PM
My thoughts,
1)Increase damage for medium and heavy stances.
2)Leave blocking, it is how Jedi should fight.
3)There are a couple of sabre attacks that don't even do damage, they just pass straight through enemy's and enemy sabres. THIS definately needs addressing. The actual attacks were posted on another thread. Really bad bug.

w1ggl3s
05-15-2002, 09:16 PM
Funny thing is.. I never came to these msg boards Tell the Effin patch.

I was perfectly content .

Sabers where weapons that did dmg.

THe game play was exciting intense. not drawn out and static.

I did the nf 1.03 dueling today.

First off for some stupid reason everyones gotta start the match with this croutching bowing crap, wasting 30 seconds of my life watchin these guys prepare to fight.

Then they do a series of testing see what the player is made out of.

Not my idea of Fun.

FUn is chaotic battles where ya never know whats gonna happen who is gonna come up from behind and change the corse of the battle, never know whats around the next turn.

A game i once played six-seven hours a day and didnt realize it.

I now spend most my time argueing on the msg boards and Looking for another game to pass the time.

You guys bitch about us bitching seriously . I dont wanna be here trying to argue with people i can never tlak to or see.
a company for all we know might neve rput out another patch.
I wanna go back to playing a ctf game i can have fun at.

Demise_SOK
05-15-2002, 09:17 PM
Bl4de said:

"You are the reason these forums suck. Go away. I tried to have a civilized conversation here."

You are not trying to have a civilized conversation. You are telling fellow players to take their valid complaints and stuff it.

Bl4de said:

" The point of having decreased damage is to make saber battles CHALLENGING, if you get bored you shouldn't be playing the game. How on God's earth anyone can be "bored" while fighting someone is either ADD or has a short attention span."

I fail to see how challenging the new saber system is when the timing and technique of regular saber swings are constantly bouncing off your opponent. It took me a long time to learn proper timing and opponents defensive position to be able to kill them without relying on any special moves like death from above/med. twirl, backstabs or force powers- now those surgical swings are autoblocked and it is frustrating to the point of boredom. Instead of rewarding skill, the new patch rewards the spamming of special moves to get kills. With regular saber swings doing alot less damage and autoblocking protecting people in the midst of special moves, the one-move-wonder players live longer then they used too and have alot more chances to use their one-hit move. I don't even know how to respond to the last couple of sentences except say it shows how truly insulting you are to people who have opposing views to yours. The funny thing is- you don't even understand it.

Bl4de said:

" Before 1.03 all the stances where the exact same with the exception red could only attack once, and yellow did a tad bit more damage and only chained 4-5 attacks. Now it's balanced so well each stance actually feels DIFFERENT from the other. The reason people get mad over this is they don't take the time to practice and get better. It isn't that hard. Now post something CONTRIBUTIVE to the thread."

The saber stances were not all the same prior to the patch, they each had different qualities that could be useful depending on the situation. I never felt like I was using the same style when swinging a blue stance as oppose to a red stance- they have always been different!! I have practiced (I can now backstab like a champ!) and I find the new saber combat system to not match up to the pre-patch standard mainly due to the claims I made above. If they increased saber damage, lowered or earased the autoblocking (leaving it up to the skills of the player) and stopped treating the lightsaber like an iron sword it would greatly enhance gameplay.

is that contributive enough? Or would you like to flame me more? Perhaps, I am more then just a lamer with ADD?


____________________________


Vanor said:

" I'd like to respond to this. All of those things were something many people asked for. People wanted saber fights to be more like SP. So Raven put in more blocking and made them do less damage.

If we did those 3 things, then we might as well just keep playing with the 1.02 patch and deal with DFA.

For the next patch, I think increasing the saber damage some would be fine, and toning down the blocking slightly, say 30-40% less offten then it is now, would be fine. But what you've sugested basicly is reverting back to how 1.02 was, and despite what anyone else may say, Raven was in fact doing what people here asked for when they made the 1.03 patch. You can like it or dislike it, feel it was made to put the newbies on even ground with the masters or whatever else you like. But you have to admit that Raven did what they did because of popular opinion on these boards."

Vanor, I recall very few posts with people asking that saber fighting be the same as SP. In fact, most of the complaints I recall reading about ver. 1.02 were DFA and drain/heal complaints.

Instead of just altering DFA and slightly weakening heal/drain they totally changed the face of the most enjoyable part of the game- saber combat.

flippo
05-15-2002, 09:39 PM
Bl4de: if you honestly think the lightsaber stances were exactly the same in 1.02, then I'm certain no one here will take you seriously. In fact it's almost impossible for me to believe that you even played version 1.02. I'm not going to get in to a pros and cons debate of the patches with you, because there are plenty of other threads with intelligent and calm commentary on it. Obviously you're much to frustrated to bother reading any of them.

Also, let me point out that telling people they are wrong in a post made to calm everyone, isn't the best way to go about things. Your whole post is antithesis to it's purpose.

Vanor
05-16-2002, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by Demise_SOK
Vanor, I recall very few posts with people asking that saber fighting be the same as SP. In fact, most of the complaints I recall reading about ver. 1.02 were DFA and drain/heal complaints.

The "Why is MP different then SP" or "Make MP like SP" posts were Very popular, it was proably before you started posting here is all.

You may not recall it, but I do, there was typicaly 2 or 3 posts on the front page constaly talking about how people wanted MP sabers to be like SP sabers. And for the most part, the only thing anyone said contrary to this, was that they didn't think it could be done and not lag the game out.

Go looking though the archives if you don't believe me, but the popular opinion here was in fact to make MP sabers work like SP sabers.

They tottaly changed saber fighting yes, but it was a change for the better IMO, and the opinion of many others. It could be tweaked so blocking happens less, and/or damage increased slightly. But a tottal revertion to 1.02 is a bad idea, and won't happen acording to raven.

Vanor
05-16-2002, 12:59 PM
Here's some links to old threads.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43706


http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41901

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38931

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38795

Well I'm getting tired of looking, and need to get back to work, but that should give you a idea of what things were like back then. If you want to find more, go back to around page 75 or so, and start looking for posts. There was even a poll on it, but I can't find it.

This one is just interesting, a early email from Raven about the patch.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41530

Skidrowpunk
05-16-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by w1ggl3s

First off for some stupid reason everyones gotta start the match with this croutching bowing crap, wasting 30 seconds of my life watchin these guys prepare to fight.



Thats always happened. if your telling me that 30 seconds is so much you cant bear you shouldn't be dueling anyway. i'd like to see you waiting in a 10 player duel server, see how much you complain.

Originally posted by w1ggl3s

FUn is chaotic battles where ya never know whats gonna happen who is gonna come up from behind and change the corse of the battle, never know whats around the next turn.


Go play Doom.

Originally posted by w1ggl3s
A game i once played six-seven hours a day and didnt realize it.


I'm sorry but too me, that is just sad, if thiss is on a weekday, when your working/at school.

Originally posted by w1ggl3s
You guys bitch about us bitching seriously . I dont wanna be here trying to argue with people i can never tlak to or see a company for all we know might neve rput out another patch.


As much as you have a right to whine, so do we, and if we want to whine about you, then thats what we choose to whine abou.


BTW, type slower, you'll make less errors and be more understandable.