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View Full Version : bit OT : Lightsabres


EekTheKat
05-16-2002, 12:24 AM
Heh...came across this + found it quite amusing...if not a bit overwhelming in the amount of info that was written up about lightsabres.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

What's interesting are the analysis of each Jedi/Sith's fighting stance as it appeared in movies (pre episode II)

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres12.htm

This is also a good read too :

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres9.htm

Demangel
05-16-2002, 02:30 AM
I know I posted this home page for someone no more than 2 or three days ago, tops maybe a week heheh...

Anyway good call Eek, lots of very cool/accurate stuff on that site, although I think some of it is a bit biased, it doesn't make it incorrect either.

This site was one of the ones that helped me theorize myself how sabers might work, and might be used.

I do not however feel the blade is massless, or very light, even the author of this site says a wieghtless blade would make a saber a bit impractical, IE hard to control. I don't think the blade would need to be exactly heavy, but any sword like weapon needs some form of balance between the hilt, and the blade.

To sort of see what I mean, if the blade is wieghtless it would be like a flash light when turned on... all the wieght in the hilt itself.

This would make it totaly imbalanced, and dificult even for a force user to manipulate properly. A win/win technique would be to simply wave the saber back and forth rapidly, or simply twitch your wrist the right way and with a little luck you could win every fight...

however comparing saber fighting to Keno, and Kenjutso (as well as other forms of Japanese sword fighting, like possibly aido), is well done, and the maker of the site really put some thought into comparing the two. Overal I give the site 2 thumbs up and a :yoda:


:joy:

UriDiuM
05-16-2002, 03:14 AM
The lightsaber moves are based on a mix of real life arts kendo being 1 of them (according to Mr Lucas anyway)

Yes a lghtsabers blade would be weightless as it is light, there is no getting round this, the balance in the hilt is used, yes it would be very hard to weild properly but only if you approach it like a sword not a lightsaber. Not to mention the Force which enables people to jump high and run quick and have lightning fast reactions, is it so hard to think that they could use a weightless blade? Hell if you stuck a sword in a jedi`s hand he might be all fingers and thumbs with it, not knowing what to do with all this weight.

Demangel
05-16-2002, 04:03 AM
But a lightsaber is NOT made of light, or at least it's not likely.

The name "Light"Sabre is used to describe the weapon, not what it's made of. We don't call a sword, a Steel blade do we? might be cool if we did though LOL.

There are a million and ten reasons why the blade oif a saber might be luminescant, and only a handful involve the blade being made of actual light like a laser.

As for the force being behind it, if you read the rest of the site, and some other source material considered tobe conononical until disproved by the movies, it is clearly stated that light sabers where once widely used a LONG LONg time ago, before Episode one in fact. By people OTHER than just jedi.

No doubt a Jedi could use it better, but without some form of force feedback like what actual mass gives you, no normal human/alien could easily wield a saber remotely like a sword.

Again their would be no reason for swings at all, a simple flick of the wrist would win any and all fights, and the poor SOB who does make a arcing swing will get owned every single time by the guy who simply tiwtches his wrist and maybe pokes a little.

In other words, the saber would end up being used more like a rapier, or light fencing saber than a hacking weapon like a broadsword or cutting weapon like a Katana (or Daito as some people call them).

Some say the broad arcs are used for blocking blasters... well then fine, that makes sense sort of... but is it that hard to switch back to fencing style when fighting? Especialy if you have the force?

No... all circumstancial evidace goes in my book to show the Saber is balanced more or less like a sword, albiet possibly a VERY light sword... but still a sword with mass in the blade, enough to balance the weapon.

there is also plenty of evidance to show the light saber does not simply destroy anything it touches without some effort. why did luke wind up at all when cutting into the at-at's armor before throwing in the detonator?

If the blade was massles, winding up would simply delay the cut, not empower it much. He could simply have pushed the blade through the armor.

this doesn't mean the blade isn't highly destructive, but I think it repels most matter to a certain degree... why would Qui gon needed to put some effort into cutting into the blast door? He didn't just poke it in slowly... he jammed it in with some effort. sure the material was dense, and that explains some of it... but it means the saber needs some effort to be propelled through an object.

If the blade was massles, swinging the saber would be foolhardy since the same amount of pushing force can be more easily applied by simply putting the saber against the object and pressing into it.

Swinging a wieghless obeject into something also overlooks the effect of the fulcrum of the wrist. If the blade has virtually no mass, it has virtualy no inertia/velocity... all the force of the swing would be in the hilt, NOT the blade. The hilt and wrist would be jarred to compensate for the impact of the wieghtless blade. This would tip/push the blade against the direction of the swing more than velocity could compensate for, possibly disarming you (literaly and figuratively).

again some people will say wide swings are flashier... I agree wholeheartedly... But even non flashy fencing movies are exciting and the duels amazing looking even to the untrained eye... Fencing movies have plenty of flashy moves as well, but are totaly different.

As a final thought, if lucas says the sabers are used a LOt like a combination of a tennis racket, Kendo and baseball bats... this in my book TOTALY rules out a wieghtless blade with or without force powers. Those kinds of techniques would be more deadly to the user than the enemy.

If his statement and the movies are Cononical, this means the saber MUST have some balanced weight with the hilt. It may still be extremely light, fast and manueverable, but not wieghtless, or have so little weight it is neglegable.

I could argue this for days, giving points, and even demonstrations if in person... the bottom line is, there is a LOt of misconceptions about how a lightsaber might work, and what the cononical sources say about it.

Most of these mistakes come fromthe Name the weapon has, making people think it is a saber made of light, the rest come elsewhere...

I do recomend you look at the site Eek has put in there though. It may or may not sell you on my weighted blade opinion, but you WILL be shown WHY the lightsaber blade is NOt made of light, in scientific terms, and cononical terms.

Some people say it's light because of the crystals "focusing effect" But as is stated on the web site, the term "Focus" Doesn't remotely have to mean focusing a beam of light. you can focus a lot of things... your attention for example... is that light?

Ok so thats a metaphoric use of the term focus, but remember you can focus energies, and even Matter that have nothing to do with light.

heck if the saber blade is made of a highly dense highly energetic plasmoid substance, cased in a force field of some kind... then maybe to heat up the plasma a laser is needed to heat up the plasma! a crystal is a great way to focus light into a laser beam, or is at least PART of what goes into creating a laser beam. Remember that. heheh