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Kanubis
05-16-2002, 02:18 PM
Right, I play JO online fairly frequently, as well as make a few posts here, but I haven't been on the forums much since the patch.

Here's the thing: I use the back stab/slash in combat a bit. I will try and jump a charging opponent and back slash or occaisonally run behind and try. Likewise, if a player jumps me, I'll stab. If I miss with any of these moves, I'll face my opponent and carry on the fight.

Is all this for some reason wrong? Wouldn't a jedi do this? I always bow (if it's that kind of game), play on saber only servers if I'm not in the mood for gun users and don't use the force for anything other than protection. I've therefore considered myself a fairly honorable player.

I know that the backslash has been unbalanced, but I don't want to change my technique because of a patch.

So am I an 'ass-fighter' or does this invlolve using the back attacks in some nefarious way that I'm missing??

Thanks

Smitty
05-16-2002, 02:25 PM
:) Yep, your a "ass fighter". But if it works for ya, what the heck. Just a game.

Reaper21x
05-16-2002, 02:34 PM
Yes you are, ass fighter.

waxdart
05-16-2002, 02:38 PM
I don't know what the above people are trying to sell you, but you're not an ass-fighter.

The backstab/swing is a valid move. The obvious reliance on that single move is less valid. Running into a room backwards whilst mouselooking down (to increase your field of view behind you, increasing your ability to pull off the move) is what makes one an 'ass fighter'.

Sounds to me more like you use it sparingly, rather as just another color in the broader palette of moves.

C'jais
05-16-2002, 02:41 PM
LOL!

You ARE joking, right? RIGHT?

Ok, just in case you aren't joking, i have SUCH a nearly unstoppable urge to slam you in the head with all 4 starwars movies and tickets to AOTC...

Now, weren't they great movies? And wasn't it some nice saber dueling they had going on? Wouldn't you like to play JUST like them jediknights and sith lords? But you can, young padawan, i see you already have a copy of jk2...

Seriously, wouldn't you want others to have fun as well? I'll bet they'd have more fun if they didn't have to back off whenever you arrived on the scene along with your... ahem.... dubious fighting style...

Trying to use backstab is pathetically annoying because everyone else HAS to stay clear of you whenever you come charging at them with butt up front. It's pathetically lame because you use(read: spam) the same move over and over. And that move looks pathetic and has nothing to do with starwars at all. IIRC no jedi used this... this... "backstab" on any other lightsaber wielding adversary in the movies, pls correct if i'm wrong.

i bet if they imported the whirlwind move from diablo2 into this game, you (along with others) would use it to no end. I don't think i need to state how ridiculous that would look... stuff of nightmares...

Learn to vary your attacks and make sure that others have fun as well... my favorite method is trying to fight like a jedi from the films, though i'm still a complete newbie in your eyes probably...

I'm sure i could bring forth a bunch of great arguments why you SHOULDN'T use the backstab like there's no tomorrow, but sadly.... i'm in a state of complete shock and horror and nearly brought to tears because you had the dare to post something like this and admit that you use this horrible fighting "style".... Please tell me you're joking...

waxdart
05-16-2002, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by cjais
I'm sure i could bring forth a bunch of great arguments why you SHOULDN'T use the backstab like there's no tomorrow, but sadly.... i'm in a state of complete shock and horror and nearly brought to tears because you had the dare to post something like this and admit that you use this horrible fighting "style".... Please tell me you're joking...

Did you or anyone else actually read the original post? He doesn't use/abuse/"whore" the backstab incessantly, or "like there's no tomorrow". He uses it "a bit" and as part of a larger repertoire.

Luc Solar
05-16-2002, 03:07 PM
Ass-Fighter: A person who SPAMS the move..someone who RUNS BACKWARDS blindly hoping to hit someone.

There is a difference between an Ass-Fighter and someone who only "uses" the move. The Ass Fighter's sole strategy is to bump their buttocks on someone and get the backslash/stab-move off. They are ridiculous and lame.

Using the move in "legitimate" situations (like, when someone tries to sneak behind you, or when attacked by multiple enemies) is quite acceptable. But if you're only trying to place your butt in your opponents face, then YES, you are an Ass-Fighter and I hope you die a horrible, yet entertaining death. :D

DrazMan
05-16-2002, 03:08 PM
You're not an "ass fighter" in my book. "ass fighters" are the people who run around backwards trying only the backstab. Just because you use the backstab when the situation calls for it doesn't make you an "ass fighter". Anyone who thinks backstab should be completely removed is just a whiner in my opinion.

C'jais
05-16-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by waxdart


Did you or anyone else actually read the original post? He doesn't use/abuse/"whore" the backstab incessantly, or "like there's no tomorrow". He uses it "a bit" and as part of a larger repertoire.

A BIT?!?!?!!!

He uses it as his first 3 moves against an opponent...
I don't think he should be burned on a stake, and I apologise if my post came across as that (it probably did) but i really can't stand those players...

He even dares to ask if "a jedi wouldn't do this"... In short: NO, a jedi wouldn't run around with his back to his opponent if he can help it. The only reason he uses this pathetic move is because the patch allows him to. If backstabs weren't such a killer and so easy to do, I would be fine...
Backstabs are lame, some people just think they have a some f***** right to abuse a good game like this... play properly guys...
And don't be a loser and give in to "patch pressure".

Sutek
05-16-2002, 03:29 PM
whinge whinge DFA whinge lamer whinge whine moan grumble DFA mutter whinge patch patch patch whine whine.

Oh, sorry, I meant to replace "DFA" with "backstab". I shouldn't use cut and paste so liberally.

This isn't the first time I've seen this argument, and it won't be the last until we're all playing f***ing Quake3 instead of JK2 (just think, eventually the whiners will be saying "lightsabers are too powerful! Only lamers use them because they can block AND attack!")

Use the backstab by all means, occasionally is best because if you overuse it then you only teach a person that they have to attack in a different way. We call this feature "learning", and those of us with an IQ >=10 are capable of this meagre feat. When you get attacked by someone running around backwards constantly, you whip them into next week. How? Kick them, sidestep and saber, pull/push them and backstab em yourself. Whatever. It's possible to avoid this move. It's possible to BLOCK this move (but hard). Just for god's sake stop calling someone a lamer because they have to tactical sense to use something that's USEFUL. I suspect you would rather your opponents all used toothpicks so you could beat them easily.

TexRoadkill
05-16-2002, 03:29 PM
Where does he say he uses it as his first 3 moves?

The reading comprehension level around here is almost as bad as the tactical awareness. You kids need to grow up and start fighting. There is nothing invinceable about the back stab. Just step away and hit them with a Red attack. Their defenses are down and you can often kill them with one hit.

If they sneak up on you in a group they could just as easily kill with any other move. If you are engaging the enemy and leave your flank open to attack then you have it coming.

I mainly play NF Duels and I love the spammers because they are easy to defeat.

Kanubis
05-16-2002, 03:33 PM
Okay.. I shall quote myself..

I use the back stab/slash in combat a bit. I will try and jump a charging opponent and back slash or occaisonally run behind and try.

I'd like to pick out two parts of that: 'A BIT' and 'OCCAISONALLY'

How the hell does that imply it's my first three moves? these are situations you can sometimes find yourself in in combat.

I haven't seen this running backwards thing (so indirectly you have actually answered my question), but if that is what is happening then I agree: it's lame.

I can't believe you construed my post to suggest I would do that.

So, here we go:

The only reason he uses this pathetic move is because the patch allows him to

My technique has not changed since the patch came along: I implied this in my penultimate paragraph

Learn to vary your attacks

Well, I use every attack in the light and mid stance. Am I missing something?

my favorite method is trying to fight like a jedi from the films, though i'm still a complete newbie in your eyes probably...

Only at reading... No seriously, if you somehow interprepted me as the kind of player you describe, I see your point.. but I proably use backslash about once in every 50 or so attacks.. at the very most. But I'm not going to cut out that odd one, because sometimes it's valid.

I hope that at sometime we meet 'in the field' so you can witness my fighting and see that it invloves none of this running backwards ****e.

SnowMongoose
05-16-2002, 03:35 PM
Ha ha!

Ass fighting...lol

Its OK by my book...just means they are facing the other way when I hit them with a rocket or opne up with H. repeater
:D

As for dueling...I just jump over em!

Snow

Sutek
05-16-2002, 03:40 PM
There you go, simple counter tactics, as simple as the ones required for avoiding the old DFA move. Why do some people find it SO hard to do this?

I often get creamed by a force pull/backstabber. Do I whine and whinge? No. I respawn and come back for more. Again, and again, until I work out a chink in their defences. I don't pretend to be perfect, but I don't start whining and calling people names because *I* am doing badly.

In fact, the only times I *do* get rude is to those who use terms like "lamer" to cover their own inadequacies.

Cracked
05-16-2002, 05:13 PM
You are most certainly not an Ass-Fighter. In fact, i pretty much fight the same way you do i think. If the situation calls for it(in that, if my opponent has ended up behind me somehow) you can bet i'll be using that backstab/slash.

1. It looks cool

2. Why would i turn around and do a regular ol slash and possibly continue the battle (and therefore increase my chances of losing) when i could end it right there.

I don't go around waving my butt in the air hoping to hit someone, and actually i've never seen anyone really do that, though i do usually play on only one server.

grandmasterlee
05-16-2002, 05:38 PM
People can play the game anyway they want, stop telling us how you "think" it should be played because 90% of us could give a flying hoot about your opinion.

ass-fight all you want, you bought the game play how you like.

Smitty
05-16-2002, 07:08 PM
Yep, an ass fighter. Not saying it is a valid move, it is a valid move, and cool to boot. But tis ass fighting :D

Chanke4252
05-16-2002, 07:52 PM
ass fighting is worse than DFA because its so much easier to hit and pull off. If it were fully blockable then that MIGHT be ok, but one hit kills, in general, are lame unless they very difficult to pull off or if you can anticipate people using them (like people swinging a heavy stance move at you from 10 feet away. you can guess what comes after it). Its hard to anticipate when someone will quickly flick their mouse so they turn 180 degrees lightening fast, and then hit back and attack. This is not difficult to do and the attack covers a very large area.

Pre-patch the light stance backstab was very powerful and ,if use properly, could take away most of a person's health. But, no move should be so powerful that a person has the option of wracking up kills by using that move over and over again. It should be an option, but not the only option.

I had more fun with backstab before the patch. I would use the light stance backstab to launch people off cliffs, or just off a ledge of some sort. Now I just kill them in the same manner that ass fighters do, and that makes me feel cheap because I know it isnt very fun for the person I'm killing.

Anyway, talking about this just gives me a headache. Good day.

Tyrion
05-16-2002, 07:53 PM
You guys think that's its bad for ass-fighters to run around with thier backs to kill other players? Ha, I switch to my blaster or whatever range weapon I have and blast his sorry butt into Oblivion:D

Phr00t
05-16-2002, 08:19 PM
If someone DFA's me, I will dodge and backstab them while they recover.
If I knock someone down after a saber lock, I will sweep them.

Am I an ass fighter? NO.

The term ass fighter refers to the constant spam of the move where they do not know how to use any other.


You're not an ass fighter.

Prowl lightstar
05-17-2002, 12:18 AM
I know of ONE single solitary instance when the backstab is used in the movies, In the Phantom Menace near the begining, while qui gonn is melting the door, obi wan spins araound and backstabs one of the crappy droids. Go on, go check if you don't believe me :P.

Never the less, Ass fighters (read: raiders) are still the poorest examples of a specimen of life on this planet. Kanubis you are NOT an Ass raider, it souds like you use the move as it was intended, i.e when the situation presents itself, NOT forcing the situation to get a cheesy kill, Kudos.

Yes you can play the game anyway you want, but being a kn0b generally gets you zero respect, zero friends, zero women and zero sex. Therefore you will die the last of your line, in a gutter somewhere, having spent your last few quid on a pro so you can get laid, but you decided you wanted an ass fight so you couldn't even get that right, so she beat your head in with her dildo.

At the end of the day ignore the homo ass raiders, if they kill you so what? You know it was cheap, they know it's cheap, the whole of the community knows it cheap, why moan. If your having fun dieing shouldn't bother you. Do those little number (frags) really mean that much? Sensible people (non ass raiders) will say "no". There's no point giving them verbal cos what do you get, the ever so inteligent and mature "fook you n00b!".

Ah well why is it the people who are incompetent, insecure, "need to get to the top of the score board or i'll wet my pants" types who always use a non existent vocabulary to hurl insults, probably because they failed primary school (1st grade) and never learned their ABC.

Death to the Ass raiding culture!!!!!!!!!!

DeFrio
05-17-2002, 12:38 AM
You are a master ass fighter. I agree it is much worse then DFA since you could see that from a mile away. Only hit me in narrow places.
Don't know where this ass fighting came from. You didnt see vader and luke going back to back and swinging around. O yes Darth Maul was an ass fighter. That stab that killed Qui-Gon was definitly ass fighting

Elegy
05-17-2002, 06:34 AM
LOL yeah it gets pretty rediculous when you see a guy run around the level with his ass up trying to butt-rape everyone. But likewise it's rediculous to immediately cry out "ass fighter!" every time you randomly get impaled by it. I don't know how many times I've been called that during a saber battle when I don't even spam the move at all. My goal is to be in constant motion as to reduce the risk of getting hit as much. This means I'm running forward and then slashing. Sidestep, slash. Dart backwards to try to avoid a glancing blow. And sometimes, when you're backing the hell up out of your opponent's way while slashing away at him yourself, and the mouse is moving around wildly as you maneuver around while likewise your opponent is manneuvering around the battle field, then yeah a backwards stab presents it's self. Half the time it's accidental. And it ****ing pisses me off to sit there during a minute-long lightsaber battle hacking and darting back and forth with some fancy lightsaber work, and get called an ass-fighter when I have like 4 health points left and right at the end the guy gets impaled from behind. It pisses me off to no end that after such hard work of grilling down my opponent's defenses, I get compared to some mindless spammer who spends his multiplayer games running ass-end up all day. It's time to get real. This is a good move if only you incorporate it properly. Like all powerful moves, it's a trump card in a time of emergency. Don't cry out "ass-fighter!" when the guy who pulls this move clearly wasn'ty spending all day running ass-end first.

Dea
05-17-2002, 08:25 AM
my favorite method is trying to fight like a jedi from the films, though i'm still a complete newbie in your eyes probably...

this means you are a darkside jedi who only uses lightning and grip right? oh and maybe push against the battle driods who aren't in the game. Because, we haven't seen any jedi do anything else. They didn't absorb, protect, or push/pull eachother using the force (haven't seen AOTC, so correct me if I'm wrong).

Hell you can't even go to a server, because a jedi wouldn't be on a 'holy crusade' to kill others, they are peace keepers and only fight when they have to.

Point is you can't play like a genuine movie Jedi, because it's a game, and not the movies.

Neo Honor
05-17-2002, 10:20 AM
I know of ONE single solitary instance when the backstab is used in the movies, In the Phantom Menace near the begining, while qui gonn is melting the door, obi wan spins araound and backstabs one of the crappy droids. Go on, go check if you don't believe me :P


Yes, you are right my friend. Obi wan also uses it (in the same fight scene) to deflect a droid blaster. I don't have the game yet (will get it next week) but i really want to deflect a blaster with a back slash. It was such a sweet move. Back on topic: Ass fighting seems horrible a degrades the tiers of skill levels. But it is unavoidable as people just wanna win, not caring that there is a right and wrong way to winning as well.

Final note: the move the maul used was a legit backstab. He, was truly a skilled back stabber :)

m64253
05-17-2002, 10:52 AM
I feel the backstab is only a problem when fight alot of ppl and not 1 on 1

ShockV1.89
05-17-2002, 03:19 PM
So wait, lemme get some of you straight. If somebody uses the technique even occasionally, only in certain circumstances, they're an ass fighter? Ignore the fact that he mostly uses other moves, he uses the backstab as well, he's a lame ass fighter.

Thats ridiculous. A move is in the game to be used. If one uses it the way they might use any other move (such as the forward diagonal slash), then theres nothing wrong with it.

Should I put forth effort to not use the backstab? If the enemy ends up behind me, shall I run away or leap high into the air instead of giving him the backstab he is lined up for?

If I leap over an opponent and land and he's behind me, it's like the Q3 equivalent of being pointblank with a railgun. It's probably gonna kill, and you'd be an idiot not to pull the trigger.

The occasional usage of the backstab does not make one an assfighter. The spamming of it (running backwards, etc) DOES make one an assfighter. But just because someone says "Yes, I use the backstab" does not mean that they run backwards at people, spamming the move. It could, but it was clearly said in this case that he doesnt.

People get stupid about these things, damn...

ShockV1.89

Agen
05-17-2002, 03:57 PM
He's not an ass fighter as long as they don't run around backwards trying it, if he tries to jump over them and do it then he is a spammer.

ShockV1.89
05-17-2002, 04:32 PM
I thought spamming was the constant, nonstop usage of a move. Jumping over a person and backstabbing is not spam. The usage of it over and over is.

ShockV1.89

Agen
05-17-2002, 04:35 PM
That's what i emant, if you keep doing it but ont walknig backwards you are spamming the move.

simeon2000
05-17-2002, 05:05 PM
ROFL this is rich.

If it's in the game, it's in the game.

The backstab is an overpowered move. Every game has overpowered moves. Only the inept whine about "overpowered weaponry".

For example, last night on a CTF match, someone was whining about one of my teammates sniping with... duhhhh... the DISRUPTOR! OMG!!! CHEAP! SNIPE WHORE!

I got backslashed probably 20 times by the same guy last night over the course of several CTF games. Force pull + backslash == dead me.

Did I whine? Did I complain about imbalance? Did I cry myself to sleep? No. It's a game. A fun one at that.

There are counters to EVERYTHING in EVERY game unless there's a big button marked "WIN GAME" on your controller/keyboard. @$$-fighting can easily be countered if you've got more sense than the average groundhog. But perhaps my expectations are too high.

Neo Honor
05-17-2002, 05:15 PM
"I got backslashed probably 20 times by the same guy last night over the course of several CTF games. Force pull + backslash == dead me."

Ok, and what was your counter for getting killed 20 times by the same move, useing by the same guy?

ShockV1.89
05-17-2002, 05:37 PM
Ya know, if there was a counter for everything that is done in this game, it really wouldnt be any fun at all, now would it? Fights would end up either never ending or taking forever to finish. (As if they're not long enough as it is)

ShockV1.89

Dea
05-17-2002, 09:53 PM
not true shock, the duel ends if someone makes a mistake, they way it should be, one mistake is fatal. You get pulled to the ground you die, the way it should be. If you remove all power moves there need to be 10-20 mistakes to end a duel, can you say SUCK? :)


As for the pull/slash counter, Absorb my friend. And if you don't have that learn from your opponent, i f he does the same move 5 times in a row you're an idiot if you let is happen a 6th time. If you see him making it, back up, jump over him, kick him, slash him, whatever.

Jah Warrior
05-19-2002, 12:12 PM
I know what you are saying mate,

I almost felt guilt with 1.03 for using backstab, but i do it with a clear conscience now.

I had just about perfected the use of backstab with 1.02 when it was still a fairly rare thing to see on duel servers. Since all the ex-DFA abusers have discovered it it has definitely lost some of it's magic, but i follow some guidelines when playing to at least keep myself happy.

1. i only use it if the player gets behind me of his own accord.

2. As an opening against arrogant players. hehhehe

3. If it doesnt hit first hit of the button i dont steam around flailing if only because it makes you look stupid. (I think it makes you look desperate when you do this)

4. never do it incessantly as that is what constitutes lameness.

From what you say kanubis you are doing it about right by me.

so good on you mate.

Peace to you all

Jah

kf6tac
05-20-2002, 03:30 PM
Believe it or not, I just discovered how to intentionally perform the backstab two days ago... and I agree that it is an insanely overpowered move. It sounds to me like the guy who originally started this thread isn't an ass-fighter, it seems more like he just uses the backstab when his opponent is unlucky enough to have set himself up. It happens, and I don't understand why everyone seems to be selectively deleting the words "a bit" and "occasionally" from his original post. Using the backstab from time to time is definitely not the same as running around ass-backwards waiting for someone to come at you. I mean - the other day I was dueling my roommate and he came charging at me just as I landed from a jump (so I was facing backwards to him by sheer chance) - and I gored him with a saber backstab. Now if that qualifies me as an ass-fighter... well I don't know what to say.

And by the way, the scene during Duel of the Fates in Episode I went by quickly but it actually looks like Darth Maul finishes off Qui-Gonn with a sort of backstab move - if you look at the shot where he's pulling his saber out of Qui-Gonn, Darth Maul has his back turned to him. Obi-Wan also uses the backstab once or twice against battle droids - not the same thing as in a duel, I know - but still it looks like Jedi use the move when it is convenient to them.

ShockV1.89
05-20-2002, 05:16 PM
Dea, thats sort of what I mean. There are some situations during which counters shouldnt be availible, such as when you're rolling around on the floor in front of your opponent. If you're on the floor, you should be as good as dead. of course, there is a counter to prevent from being on the floor (absorb), but people dont want to have to use that. Sucks for them.

ShockV1.89

Sutek
05-20-2002, 11:05 PM
I feel the backstab is only a problem when fight alot of ppl and not 1 on 1

What? But that's the time when the backsweeps are USEFUL! If you are being gang chased by a bunch of peopel determined to climb on you and hit you with their little glowy sticks, then what exactly is wrong with taking one step backwards (or a couple if they aren't fast runners :>) and killing them all? If you try to duel them all at once then chances are you'll get murdered.

The problem is spammers. Nothing else, just the people who use it and nothing else. I use a fair bit, but I also use a lot of other moves. I run, I swerve, I kick, I slash (often I slash in fact), I use pull, I use push, I jump over, and then back again. I use whatever is necessary to take down my opponent, and if circumstances dictate a backstab (or swing, as I prefer red or yellow stance), then so be it. I have been called an ass-fighter a couple of times, both by a fellow who had the misfortune of being killed by that move several times (other than that, we didn't meet on the map). this meant the only move he *SAW* me do was the backswing, but does that mean it was the only move I did?

kf6tac
05-21-2002, 02:19 AM
Originally posted by Dea


this means you are a darkside jedi who only uses lightning and grip right? oh and maybe push against the battle driods who aren't in the game. Because, we haven't seen any jedi do anything else. They didn't absorb, protect, or push/pull eachother using the force (haven't seen AOTC, so correct me if I'm wrong).

Hell you can't even go to a server, because a jedi wouldn't be on a 'holy crusade' to kill others, they are peace keepers and only fight when they have to.

Point is you can't play like a genuine movie Jedi, because it's a game, and not the movies.

Actually, I believe the Jedi have done a little (and I mean little) bit more than just those. In TPM, Darth Maul uses push to toss Obi-Wan into that pit. In ESB, Darth Vader uses some variation of Protect to deflect Han's blaster before using Pull to yank it away from him. Granted Vader doesn't actually pull Han, but he pulls. It's true though that the light side Jedi in the movies don't do all that much. Although they could be using Protect without our knowledge, since it's sort of a field that just surrounds them. Hmmm.... anything else I'm missing... well I'm not gonna spoil AOTC for anyone so that's about it from me.

Sutek
05-21-2002, 08:51 AM
I'll just plug the RPG (the pen and paper one):

The old d6 system for Star Wars the RPG was based much more closely on the movies than the JK games - Vader uses absorb to absorb the energy of the blaster bolt (in the RPG absorb works only on energy weapons and explosions, not force powers to my knowledge), and pull/push are merely aspects of the Telekinesis power.

Protect doesn't exist at all, as do a number of powers from the game. The powers in the game are just ones which make for an interesting game really.

shaolin_blade
05-21-2002, 06:43 PM
Trying to use backstab is pathetically annoying because everyone else HAS to stay clear of you whenever you come charging at them with butt up front. It's pathetically lame because you use(read: spam) the same move over and over. And that move looks pathetic and has nothing to do with starwars at all. IIRC no jedi used this... this... "backstab" on any other lightsaber wielding adversary in the movies, pls correct if i'm wrong.


Obi-Wan uses the Backstab against a battle droid in TPM, moron.

Count Beefstew
05-22-2002, 04:23 PM
I use the ass fighting method quite alot. But I don't use the same ass fighting method with the backstab or backsweep. I do the same thing trying to back my ass up to other jedis, only I don't swing the saber, instead a spray of diahhrea comes out of my butt and does 50 damage! Try it.:jawa