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Galadrielle
05-17-2002, 01:47 AM
I love all the Star Wars movies. I'm an enthusiast, and was very excited at the prospect of Episode II. I had seen Episode I about 15 times now, and grew to really like it in spite of its problems (and I agree there are some).

A lot about Episode II left a bad taste in my mouth. Although I will say there's enough about it for me as a Star Wars fan to like it *anyway*, I feel let down by Lucas.. feels like he's caved in completely on whatever HE would have done, and just ended up doing what he thinks we want. Pathetic:

**SOME POSSIBLE SPOILERS FOLLOW **

In no particular order:

There was no hint of so many Jedi in E1, and yet now you see a few dozen saber-weilding idiots fighting in E2
In E1, the battle between Maul and the 2 Jedi was fantastic, and after a hard fought battle seemed like Maul might have finally won .. a well portrayed battle between a Sith warrior that's trained to fight above all else, and 2 Jedi. In E2, Obi-wan and Skywalker take on the dark Jedi (dooka or whatever his name is), who's more of a leader and political figure, and get their asses kicked in about 30-40 seconds. LAME.
They have Yoda jumping around and spinning like a jumping bean on crack, making these ridiculous battle cries, making him come off like some pathetic looking muppet meant to make kids laugh. What a joke. Sure he made Dooka retreat.. but what a pathetic muppet joke it was the way he was portrayed.
Obi-wan and Annakin come off like ameteur Jedi.. no sense of regalness whatsoever.. just a pair of flunkies that are flailing about trying to do their duties. Obi-wan goes to get an alcoholic drink at a bar rather than finally catch a deadly assassin. "Oooops, broke my saber again. Oh boy he'll be mad!".. I've never seen Jedi have so much trouble holding onto their lifeblood Sabers before, or keep them from getting broken.. what a joke.
The initial chase of the assassin was a joke.. Anakin and Obi-wan doing ridiculous things as if it's impossible for them to die, even if they do manage to fall 2 miles to the ground below.
No one seems to give a crap how utterly out of control Anakin acts, even from the beginning of the movie. Makes the whole "you are training to be a Jedi" look no more important than training to be a bagger at your local grocery store.
I must say amadala and anakin seem really flat in their portrayal. Amadala seemed much more solid in E1.. in this movie she seemed really devoid of much personality (or acting ability as it were.. she can do much better than that.. have NO clue why she came off so bad). And she's an ex-queen and politician, but she runs around fighting like she's been some hard-nosed rebel fighter all her life. That was a joke as well.


I'm sure I left out several things. And to be fair, there are some things that I thought were cool. Hell, I felt that the bounty hunter had more discipline and intelligence than Obi-wan and Anakin came across as having in this movie. He was almost more interesting to watch than those two .. his presence and intelligence was much more apparantly portrayed. As far as the Jedi were concerned, Samual Jackson's character did the best job by far of portraying a Jedi as we've come to know them from the previous 4 movies.

If you are a Star Wars fan, you will still definitely find much to like about the movie. I did in spite of my bashing of it. I'm just mad because it feels like Lucas TOTALLY caved in and didn't come close to telling the story the way HE would have saw fit, and instead did what he thought people wanted. In the end, in my opinion, he ends up making the whole Jedi order look like some screwball outfit that has very little idea what they're doing or very little sense of discipline, contrary to previous movies. What a shame.. such a huge, impressive world as he has created with his other four movies, and he treats it so carelessly as if it doesn't matter what he does. What a fricken joke and a total shame.

Galadrielle
05-17-2002, 01:55 AM
And don't get me wrong.. there are quite a few things I like about this movie that I did not mention. But it was expected that I would like this movie. So I mentioned that which was a shock to me.. all the aspects that I thought were pathetic. Still, overall, if you are a Star Wars fan, a movie worth seeing (many times) anyway. I will be seeing it a few more times in the theater at least.

[bh] Jodo Kast
05-17-2002, 01:55 AM
Ok, you know all those Jedi sitting around in Episode I?

Those are the same guys! Check again.

I stopped reading at that point. I'll let the others fill you in on the rest. Watch the movie again... ALL of them... I mean EP1, EP4,EP5 and EP6.

My wife recently understood what was going on. The whole lack of sequence of events causes big problems.

Why? Cuz the first movie was the fourth, the second movie was the fifth, the third movie was the sixth and the fourth movie was the first.

Easily confusing! Or was it the fourth movie was the first, the fifth movie was the second, the sixth was the third, and the first was the fourth??

YEAH that makes more sense! I think...

[bh] Jodo Kast
05-17-2002, 01:57 AM
That's the key for Episode 3.

Have NO expectations. Just go. Clear your mind. ;)

Galadrielle
05-17-2002, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by [bh] Jodo Kast
Ok, you know all those Jedi sitting around in Episode I?

Those are the same guys! Check again.

I stopped reading at that point.
Of course I recognized those. I'm talking about the other few dozen Jedi that were fighting in the arena that you've never seen or been hinted at before. Suddenly they've got an "army" of Jedi at their beck and call to go fight a battle? Please.

You stopped reading at that point? Seems like you didn't read it at all. Since you have trouble reading, let alone reading an opinion about a movie without taking it as an insult, and making your own weak attempt to return this imagined insult, please don't bother. Thanks.:rolleyes:

Breakin2'
05-17-2002, 02:04 AM
I just got back and absolutely loved it. There were some slow parts in the middle, but overall it was great. As for Dooku handling Obi-Wan and Anakin easily - he's a master. Yoda obviously could have beaten him, but it was no walk in the park for him either.

Galadrielle
05-17-2002, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by [bh] Jodo Kast
That's the key for Episode 3.

Have NO expectations. Just go. Clear your mind. ;)
That is exactly it. When the movie first was starting, I can't remember the last time I was that excited about a particular movie. I have absolutely no expectations whatsoever about E3, and I bet I end up walking out of the first viewing of that one liking it. LOL.

[bh] Jodo Kast
05-17-2002, 02:12 AM
Ok after reading your entire post. I have this to say:

Your opinions are interesting. Are you gonna see the movie again?

Galadrielle
05-17-2002, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by [bh] Jodo Kast
Ok after reading your entire post. I have this to say:

Your opinions are interesting. Are you gonna see the movie again?
I already said I would go see it again, and see it several times I shall. :) And when it's out on DVD I'm sure I'll watch it a few dozen times more. There's much to like in spite of it all. My rant has to do with this movie and series having the potential to be mind-numbingly brilliant, and instead is just pretty damn good at best (if you're a SW fan, as I am) since E1 and now E2 hit the waves. I was shocked and hugely dissapointed at all the huge flaws I saw in E2 that kept it from achieving such brilliance. :(

Bowen
05-17-2002, 02:37 AM
I loved the movie and I liked Episode I and thought Episode II was much better but I also agree with you on some of your points here. Don't get me wrong either....I loved the movie but no one seemed to correct him on his angry attitude. They were concerned about him but it seemed more to be about his problem with authority. What about when Anakin and Obi-wan caught the changeling and Anakin was so angry....Obi-wan said nothing. I didn't have a problem with the Jedi that we've never seen before because they don't have to show all the Jedi in Episode 1. I agree that at least Obi-wan seemed a little bit on the amateur side fighting Dooku. Anakin can be excused because of his lack of patience and inability to follow directions. Darth Maul was much better with the Lightsabre than Dooku was. And yeah...it seemed Amadala didn't seem to worried about going off and fighting. One more thing....Portman did seem a little flat though with the love scenes. Not to leave on a bad note so...the movie was much better than Episode I but the best Sabre scene was with Maul in my opinion and perhaps the only thing that could beat it would be Anakin fighting Obi-wan in Episode III. BTW....Jedi Knight II's sabre fights look very much like Star Wars!! I love this game!

striderx2048
05-17-2002, 02:47 AM
It just proves that Obiwan was always just average to medicore with the lightsaber. He got whooped in EP1 and now in EP2.

[bh] Jodo Kast
05-17-2002, 03:11 AM
That's true, plus he lied to Luke about his father!

striderx2048
05-17-2002, 03:11 AM
Maybe the stories are not too good is because he rushing everything. If you read Star wars version 1 vs Star Wars version 7 of the original script, you know what i mean

ed1371
05-17-2002, 03:22 AM
[list]
There was no hint of so many Jedi in E1, and yet now you see a few dozen saber-weilding idiots fighting in E2

Actually they have mentioned over and over that they are the jedi council, not all of the jedi. also in E1 they say they catch children early to be trained. E2 you see a bunch of kids and considering how old (yoda) some of the council is you can figure there are quite a few.

In E1, the battle between Maul and the 2 Jedi was fantastic, and after a hard fought battle seemed like Maul might have finally won .. a well portrayed battle between a Sith warrior that's trained to fight above all else, and 2 Jedi. In E2, Obi-wan and Skywalker take on the dark Jedi (dooka or whatever his name is), who's more of a leader and political figure, and get their asses kicked in about 30-40 seconds. LAME.
not a leader, He used to be a jedi...now darksided and quite powerful (never saw Maul using lightning)

They have Yoda jumping around and spinning like a jumping bean on crack, making these ridiculous battle cries, making him come off like some pathetic looking muppet meant to make kids laugh. What a joke. Sure he made Dooka retreat.. but what a pathetic muppet joke it was the way he was portrayed.
I actually liked what he did with Yoda, He showed why he IS the number one guy(?)
Obi-wan and Annakin come off like ameteur Jedi.. no sense of regalness whatsoever.. just a pair of flunkies that are flailing about trying to do their duties. Obi-wan goes to get an alcoholic drink at a bar rather than finally catch a deadly assassin. "Oooops, broke my saber again. Oh boy he'll be mad!".. I've never seen Jedi have so much trouble holding onto their lifeblood Sabers before, or keep them from getting broken.. what a joke.
Both of them are still young...the drink thing was a bit odd though.
The initial chase of the assassin was a joke.. Anakin and Obi-wan doing ridiculous things as if it's impossible for them to die, even if they do manage to fall 2 miles to the ground below.
I thought it was ok, but all of the movies have done that sort of stuff: Speederbike chases, pod races, taking down an AT-AT all by your lonesome.
No one seems to give a crap how utterly out of control Anakin acts, even from the beginning of the movie. Makes the whole "you are training to be a Jedi" look no more important than training to be a bagger at your local grocery store.
Actually, they do mention it, but ole yoda reminds that soon to be darth is the key to balencing the force


Again everyone has thier opinion...I just dont happen to agree.

OH, and you have to see it in digital format...OMFG was it amazing!

EekTheKat
05-17-2002, 03:52 AM
There was no hint of so many Jedi in E1, and yet now you see a few dozen saber-weilding idiots fighting in E2

IIRC there was something about there being 10,000 Jedi or so in the republic in either the title crawl of E1 or in some other form (something like Obi Wan mentioned it in E4 or something like that).

In E1, the battle between Maul and the 2 Jedi was fantastic, and after a hard fought battle seemed like Maul might have finally won .. a well portrayed battle between a Sith warrior that's trained to fight above all else, and 2 Jedi. In E2, Obi-wan and Skywalker take on the dark Jedi (dooka or whatever his name is), who's more of a leader and political figure, and get their asses kicked in about 30-40 seconds. LAME.

Disagree. Obi Wan and Anakin got taken down by a true master of the saber in E2.

Dooku took them both without even breaking a sweat. How exactly does this make his saber skills "weaker" than Maul's?

Dooku was also the guy who trained Obi Wan's deceased Master. It's almost expected that he was able to take down Obi Wan in that short amount of time.

I also noticed that Obi Wan seemed to have adopted parts of his old master's fighting stance into his own as well. And throughout E2 his fighting style had a lot more thought and substance than how it appeared in E1 as well (where he was doing a lot more show off moves). He seemed more calm and collected now relying more of a balance of his skill and physical ability rather than just pure raw physical ability that he showed in E1.

Heck even Obi Wan knew this as well before he + Anakin went into that final battle with him.

His fighting style was very strong defensively, and was able to keep up and overwhelm even the "chosen one" who was almost 4 times younger than him as well.

Dooku fought like more of a traditional fencer ( with a hybrid Japanese/European style) almost along the same vein that Obi Wan and Vader were portrayed in E4 as well.

That and Christopher Lee is just way wicked as a villain.

They have Yoda jumping around and spinning like a jumping bean on crack, making these ridiculous battle cries, making him come off like some pathetic looking muppet meant to make kids laugh. What a joke. Sure he made Dooka retreat.. but what a pathetic muppet joke it was the way he was portrayed.

Yoda's saber fighting style was probably so fast because it's harder for his opponents to actually hit him given how small and how fast he was actually moving.

IMHO the real reason why he was moving so fast was more a product of the long (some 20+ year old) running gag that Yoda has always been some small green crippled hobbit midget. That whole gag at the end of the saber fight where he force pulls his own cane to him and proceeds to continue limping again pretty much just reinforced this. This gave that very large OMG factor that everyone literally had when they first see that fight.

Nebelwerfer_
05-17-2002, 05:58 AM
thats the first time I heard anyone say they liked TPM and not AOTC (exept for that fata$$ roger ebert).
AOTC was not a perfect movie, but I love the crap out of it, I've seen it thrice and am going to see it this sunday again. Possibly the reason why I like it so much is because after being disapointed about TPM, I came to AOTC not expecting it to be good and was surprised by it's greatness.

Count Beefstew
05-17-2002, 08:17 AM
"Obi-wan goes to get an alcoholic drink at a bar rather than finally catch a deadly assassin."

Obi-wan was using the art of hunting without hunting. He just sits there at the bar casually having a drink and the assassin will come to him. Low and behold, that was the result.

BS - soundwave
05-17-2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Count Beefstew

Obi-wan was using the art of hunting without hunting. He just sits there at the bar casually having a drink and the assassin will come to him. Low and behold, that was the result.

Exactly. Obi wan was in complete control of that situation and whos to say a jedi can't have a drink or two?

Breakin2'
05-17-2002, 10:16 AM
I actually loved the drink scene. It showed how cool Obi-Wan is. While Anakin stalked around like a madman, Obi-Wan just got himself a drink and let the assasin come to him.

Chaotic~Angel
05-17-2002, 10:24 AM
The drink scene was sweet. Especially the guy selling 'Death Sticks'. hehe everyone smiled at that part :)

happydan
05-17-2002, 10:33 AM
the whole point about yoda fighting so powerfully was to reinforce the fact that his strength lies in the force. he calls upon it when is needed, and never abuses it. it also demonstrated his firm belief that a jedi should not use the force as a weapon. he needed to defend himself, not attack.

thrEEpaGe
05-17-2002, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by Breakin2'
I actually loved the drink scene. It showed how cool Obi-Wan is. While Anakin stalked around like a madman, Obi-Wan just got himself a drink and let the assasin come to him.

meh thanks for ruining my 4th movie viewing for me!!!!

Divine Spirit
05-17-2002, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by Galadrielle
There was no hint of so many Jedi in E1, and yet now you see a few dozen saber-weilding idiots fighting in E2

why does there have to be evidence? as jedi are such a big force (pun not intended :D) we can assume that there are many of them. in Ep1 did you want the camera to suddenly show a 10 second clip of lots of jedi in a room cheering and then go back to the story?- just so we can be sure that there are many of them

In E1, the battle between Maul and the 2 Jedi was fantastic, and after a hard fought battle seemed like Maul might have finally won .. a well portrayed battle between a Sith warrior that's trained to fight above all else, and 2 Jedi. In E2, Obi-wan and Skywalker take on the dark Jedi (dooka or whatever his name is), who's more of a leader and political figure, and get their asses kicked in about 30-40 seconds. LAME.

just because he has only trained to fight it doesnt mean he IS a better fighter...im think that dooku is more powerful than maul is anyway. and dooku uses a different sabre style to everyone else- he fights like fencing because its more effective against other saberers unlike the standard type of fighting which is suited to fighting in a galaxy full of guns

Obi-wan and Annakin come off like ameteur Jedi.. no sense of regalness whatsoever.. just a pair of flunkies that are flailing about trying to do their duties. Obi-wan goes to get an alcoholic drink at a bar rather than finally catch a deadly assassin. "Oooops, broke my saber again. Oh boy he'll be mad!".. I've never seen Jedi have so much trouble holding onto their lifeblood Sabers before, or keep them from getting broken.. what a joke.

ur right about obi wan...he should have been a bit more regal but the fact that anakin wasnt regal is an important point because anakin is meant to be wild and ignorant in the ways of the jedi...thats why he doesnt follow the code and...(massive spoiler)

becomes darth vader!!!

The initial chase of the assassin was a joke.. Anakin and Obi-wan doing ridiculous things as if it's impossible for them to die, even if they do manage to fall 2 miles to the ground below.

the scene is meant to show of how powerful and skilled the jedi are...i think this scene does it well but i agree slightly- obi wan is a bit too wreckless, but anakin isnt because his character is meant to be- especially when defending padme

No one seems to give a crap how utterly out of control Anakin acts, even from the beginning of the movie. Makes the whole "you are training to be a Jedi" look no more important than training to be a bagger at your local grocery store.

i thought that it was a bit stupid that no one cared but at the time noone knew that anakin would become darth vader so everyone just carried on thinking that he just needed a bit more training. and anyway, yoda and mace thought that the situation with the separatists was more important and dangerous. it just shows you: "cloudy the dark side is"


Divine Spirit

nattydred
05-17-2002, 02:56 PM
By all the standards of good movie making this one is crap.

There is no excuse for bad acting, writing, editing and storytelling.

Biohazard
05-17-2002, 08:05 PM
I agree with some of the comments made by the author of the thread. All out action was expected and when it finally came, it was too late to rescue a film with some obvious flaws. I firmly believe that the more it is seen the more us starwars fans will begin to love it. There were some great moments between Anakin and Obi-wan ie "We came to rescue you", "good job!"

One thing I noticed is that there seems to be confusion over the Obi-wan drink scene. I thought it was obvious that, rather then chasing around after Zam wessel, he allowed her to come to him, giving Obi-wan the advantage. After all no bounty hunter could resist a seemingly undefended jedi stood at a bar