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Komodai
05-17-2002, 06:52 PM
I know this is probably a well already discussed topic amongst junkies, but I don't go on the forums much.

I'd like to ask if anyone knows if the direct connection between Palpatine and Sidious is official?
are they totally different people?
or are they the same, but distinguishable only in their two visades.

It has been an ongoing debate between a friend and I.
He has seen them talked about as two different people.

But I, since they look the same obviously, and context clues such as the shift of power in the senate and the "there are always two" quote, I think otherwise.

Thanks..

Cobalt60
05-17-2002, 07:01 PM
considering the title of the film,
I think it's a strong possibility that Palpatine is a clone of Darth Sidious

Robbiesan
05-17-2002, 07:38 PM
Aren't Senator (Ep1)/Chancellor(Ep2) Palpatine and Darth Sidious one in the same? I'd like to say more on this regarding Ep2, but I don't want to ruin anything for those who haven't seen it yet.

ed1371
05-17-2002, 08:16 PM
Palpatine IS Sideus! Notice the power he is gaining as a senator? YUP YUP...Kinda sheds light on things now huh? (hint, watch episode 1, last scene, Ole yoda is talking about how the sith come in twos...a master and an apprentice...they killed the apprentice...but who is the Master? Gee, the camera pans on to Palpatine.)

Also take note how The senator speaks with Anikin...hmmmm

Bl4de
05-17-2002, 08:58 PM
Keep in mind, Sidius was cloned numerous times during the Clone wars. There are things that lead you to believe they are the same person, but then again, there are reasons to believe they are not. Such as Yoda not sensing the dark side in Palpatine. I think Palpatine is a clone of Sidius. Sidius was one of the strongest of his time, who wouldn't want to clone him just in case.

Kyth'emos
05-17-2002, 09:03 PM
man anyone who hasnt figured out that they are THE SAME PERSON by now is reeeeeaaalllyyy sssslllloooowwww.

Awol
05-17-2002, 09:10 PM
Ok while Sidious does have clones (at least in the books) and he is very powerful, I'm sorry why would someone as powerful and evil as Sidious is, would want a clone of himself. Hell its a clones so doesn't that mean its just as powerful (in the force) and intelligent as the originial. Whats stops the clone from killing you and taking over the universe? If I was all powerful I wouldn't make a clone of myself for that very reason I know it would take me out and rule.

BTW the Ep1 and Ep2 makes it really clear the dark side is unclear and hard to see, Ep2 makes it known that the Jedi's power aren't as strong as they were. So its seems to me that even Yoda might not sense that Palpatine is Sidious.

Awol

Avalon
05-17-2002, 09:31 PM
I'm of the understanding that the Dark side is hard to sense because the user wants it that way. As it's been said in books and officially stated (through LucasFilms media announcements, interviews, etc), those who wield the Dark side have spent a millennia honing their skills in stealth and deception, in order to stay hidden until the time is ripe for their triumphant return. Also, the very presence of the Dark side can "dull" the power of the Light.

Palpatine and Sidious seem clearly one and the same to me. But then again, it would be a really interesting plot twist if it turned out differently, such as Sidious being a clone or someone else entirely. I wouldn't hold my breath on that, though.

Jahs
05-17-2002, 09:42 PM
Did anyone see Sidious in the sub titles?!?

ed1371
05-17-2002, 09:42 PM
Something just popped into my head...I remember he is actually called "Emperor Palpatine" in the previous movies and in the books. Done deal

digl
05-17-2002, 09:51 PM
Thread swamped

Jedi_Monk
05-18-2002, 04:34 AM
I don't think Palpatine would trust even a clone of himself to either do the dirty work (i.e., what Sidious is doing) or the political scheming (i.e., what Palpatine is doing). They're probably the same person...

Kyth'emos
05-18-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by ed1371
Something just popped into my head...I remember he is actually called "Emperor Palpatine" in the previous movies and in the books. Done deal

Yep, thats what makes it so obvious. :)

Prowl lightstar
05-19-2002, 12:57 PM
If the two ARE clones they would have the same name (last name at least, Jango and Boba Fett anyone?) Also it's TOO obvious to assume sidious = palpatine . There needs to be some kind of plot twist, to wipe the smirk off all the smart arses who think they've solved it already. Remember "luke....I am your father!", lucas isn't a stranger to insane plot twists, i'd expect more of the same in this trilogy. I think the're different people, Sidous is almost white in appearance, palpatine is still human coloured.

People exploring other ideas than the imediately "obvious" aren't slow, it's called being open minded.

Breakin2'
05-19-2002, 06:49 PM
I think Episode III will reveal that Darth Sidious is actually Chewbacca. Han Solo (as an infant) will save him from Yoda, thus beginning Chewbacca's life-long debt to Solo.

Divine Spirit
05-19-2002, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by Kyth'emos


Yep, thats what makes it so obvious. :)

perhaps thats what makes it untrue- the fact that it looks so obvious is to distract people when really they ARE different people...it seems too obvious for my liking. this arguement is too fair to come to any conlusion until we know the truth


Divine Spirit

Homosexual Ewok
05-19-2002, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by Cobalt60
Considering the title of the film,
I think it's a strong possibility that Palpatine is a clone of Darth Sidious

Indeed, take a deep breath, relax and read this:

I think that Palpatine and Sidious are two different "people".

I think the "original" Palpatine is Sidious. By original I mean a guy named Palpatine gets to be one bad mother in the ways of the Dark side. He wants to take over the galaxy but knows it won't be a matter of one big "mind trick". He needs an army and lots of political power in addition to being able to shoot lightning out of his fingers.

He creates a clone of himself for that very purpose. Evil guys are not too trusting, so whom would you trust better than a copy of "yourself"?

Now this part can be speculated on forever, but at some point the "real" Palpatine steps out of the picture and the clone steps in. This could even be before he was a senator.

Now the notion that the clone Palpatine and Sidious are not in league is hard to buy, but the notion that Sidious and his clone are working together for the same goal are not. Look no further than Jango and Boba...

This makes perfect sense as to why the Jedi can't sense the Sith lord that is standing 3 feet in front of them. Is he Force sensitive? Yes, but then again I bet there are millions of people on Coruscant that are Force sensitive also. Is he trained in the ways of the Force? No. That’s why he can't be sensed. Sure they sense deceit, he is a politician after all.

Besides, think about it. If he gets busted who takes the bullet? The clone. That and the fact that I doubt he would be able to juggle the "Sith evil plan stuff" and the senator/Supreme Chancellor stuff from the same apartment without one person or another stumbling upon his plans. The Supreme Chancellor has to be one busy, well-guarded man, when would he have time to sneak away for all the evil Sith stuff?

A lot of people bring up the point that this or that fact says Emperor Palpatine. Well of course it does, that was his name to begin with. I am not saying Sidious has the last name "Jones". The dude you see sitting in the chair in ROTJ IS the original Palpatine. Besides, I'll be dammed if I didn't see an interview with GL or RM recently that stated something about "looking at the original films in a whole new way after this is over".

In ATOC of course Palpatine strokes Anakin’s ego, it's what his boss told him to do. They need a powerful ally.

The Palpatine you see in these last two films knows what’s going on and Like Vader thinks it's a "We will rule the Galaxy" thing. And once again, like Vader he does not realize he is just a weapon being wielded by a master manipulator.



The point everyone argues is either "The have to be the same because his name is Emperor Palpatine".

Well of course, Sidious gave his clone his real name, Palpatine. Remember the Sidious name is just like the Vader name, it's one they took on after becoming a Sith.

Then what about "It's the same actor playing both parts, it's so obvious!"

Well of course it's the same actor, I doubt anyone would buy they were clones if two different people played each part...duh.

Answer me this, why has George never stated they are one and the same? Why have there been no scenes in the last two movies where it shows Sidious taking off his Sith robes and changing into his Palpatine "image"? Or any scenes where he shuts the door of his office, then holograms his Sith apprentice?

And as for this or that book stating otherwise, George has contradicted the ROTJ novel twice in these last two movies by making Owen Anakin's stepbrother, not Obi-Wan's brother and the part in the novel where Vader/Anakin whishes he "would of met this Yoda" when he is dying.

I think George is counting on 90% of you believing the obvious so his surprise is that much more unbelievable.

Prowl lightstar
05-21-2002, 09:30 AM
Exactly, and i for one can't friggin wait.