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MadKiwi
05-18-2002, 11:07 PM
Ok so I was playing in a ffa and I ended up having quite a long duel with some dude. After a while I figured he must be nearly dead because I hit him heaps of times, then suddenly he puts his saber away and presses the chat key just as I'm about to finish him off. I finish him off anyway then he kicks up a big stink about how I attacked him when he was typing and then he does his best to try and get me kicked. I'm just wondering what does everyone else think about this, was I in the wrong or did he just press the chat key because he was nearly dead and didn't want me to kill him. Sorry to rant but for some reason it made me really angry, has this happened to anyone else?

Kyth'emos
05-19-2002, 02:42 AM
hasant happened to me bt I would have killed his ass to.

Ferox
05-19-2002, 03:15 AM
yeah i fought a dude that kept going chat when he was about to die or in the middle of lots of enemies... i knew he was doing it on purpose.. thats the only time i would kill someone with the chat on, but when i go chat i get away in a corner and someone comes and dilibertly attacks me.


i had 2 guys do that today , but i ended up draining them as they tried to grip and then sweep me... i got em both though AHAHA. i always seem to end up on 3,4 or even 5 on ones.. i love it when i can take one or two with me before i eventually get overwhelmed.

Lord Sokar
05-19-2002, 03:30 AM
Ah, another benefit of the 1.03 patch. Newbie stop signs.

Homosexual Ewok
05-19-2002, 03:46 AM
Who gives a damn if someone type kills you. Does it take away from your score? No. I get nailed all the time and have never bitched once about it. Do I do it to others? Not unless they pull crap like what you read on the first post. If someone does that you should do nothing but type kill them.

Rogue74
05-19-2002, 06:40 PM
I've seen that a LOT now. I've even seen people camping by weapon/powerup spawn points with their chat icon on waiting for the items. I just put a warning through and tell them I'm gonna start killing anyone throwing their chat icon up when they are about to be killed or camping.

Another one is people who put their chat icon up and then as soon as you go past they try to kill you. Morons.

Agen
05-19-2002, 06:49 PM
Only kill em if they are doing it on purpose, if they are running and put it up and you kill them be ashamed of yourself.
Incase you didn't get that, if thery are trying to type but u keep charging at them whiel they're trying to type, That way, making them run.

MadKiwi
05-20-2002, 04:11 AM
Another thing I've noticed is that some people will run around with their saber turned off, force pull you over then turn on their saber and backstab you. This is ok until you see them later on, attack them, then they complain you killed them when they have their saber turned off. GRRRRRRRRR

Vestril
05-20-2002, 04:22 AM
I have a key bound to say 'One moment, Please' so if I'm dueling with someone, and something goes wrong with my computer, I can get a second. I think people who start trying to chat, or turn of their lightsabers in the middle of a fight are asking to be killed. I mean I ask, but if they decide to ignore it I fight back as best as I can (my usual problem is that I knee the CD tray button, and then knee it back in--it causes a good couple of seconds of really annoying lag when the startup screen pops lol).

JR128
05-20-2002, 04:26 PM
(my usual problem is that I knee the CD tray button, and then knee it back in--it causes a good couple of seconds of really annoying lag when the startup screen pops lol).



Dude just move your computer.

I have seen people kill typers that are in the corner with there backs turned. I think thats lame. But as far as a saber turned off I find that I leave my saber off and walk...not run to a fight. It kind of says to the other guy's " Your not so big and bad, so Bring it.":monkey4:

Vestril
05-20-2002, 04:39 PM
Dude just move your computer.

Dude, I wasn't complaining about that. I like my computer where it is, if I have to put up with a minor annoyance once in a great while, then so be it.

digital-entropy
05-20-2002, 09:51 PM
Personally, I think throwing up your type sign is lame, and I'll kill you regardless. IMHO, ESPICALLY in dueling, I hate sitting around waiting for some guy to fix his problem. No offense, but so something screwed up on your end? Too bad. I'd expect anyone else to treat me the same way.

Now, if the fight has just started, and you haven't quite figured it out, I'd give some leeway there. But not in the middle of the match, no, don't expect to be cut slack.

Thyme
05-20-2002, 10:06 PM
What's this about turning your saber off? That shouldn't put you in any safe mode. I turn mine off and run around so it is harder for enemies to zero in on my color, also they can't track my glow from underneath... I never thought I was safe by turning it off. Am I abusing some custom? The manual even says to turn it off for stealth, not for neutrality.

Sutek
05-20-2002, 11:31 PM
(my usual problem is that I knee the CD tray button, and then knee it back in--it causes a good couple of seconds of really annoying lag when the startup screen pops lol).

Then turn off autorun silly :> That'll stop that startup screen problem. Autorun is nothing but buggy s***e anyway.

I have seen this kind of problem before - the one about people going into chat just as you kill them, but I always apologise afterward with the proviso "I was in the middle of the move when it appeard, didn't have chance to stop".

I think I've also seen a few people try sneaky move like pretneding to be chatting and then blatting me. I just remember their names. If they do it twice or seem to be doing it to others a lot as well, then I take them off my mental "protected cos they're chatting" list. At which point I backsweep their stupid arses all over the place (I see no reason to play nice with them since they won't...)

PS: I think the convention for peaceful is now the chatting icon, but there is also still that convention in duels, but it only lasts until combat has begun (turning it off halfway through makes you fair game, and foolish)

Gar Suul Von
05-20-2002, 11:33 PM
how about this one?
i was in a nf saber only duel.
as most of you know by now, it has become sort of customary to holster and bow before a duel. well i was up against this dude who was 9-1, so, i crouched down and dipped my head for a large prolonged bow. (in most customs the lower and longer you bow, the more respect you show). well, guess what i saw as i raised my head? DFA coming right at me!!!! i managed to sidestep and swing ruducing some damage and hopefully inflicting a bit myself, but now i was at 60 hp and no sheild. i strung it out for a while and got it close, but eventually fell.
when i told him that i thought that was a cheap thing to do, he replied, "i am cheap, f***k you".
to be honest i just sort of laughed, and when he lost his next fight, he announced "i owned you all" and left the server, so no rematch.
only reason i am really posting this is to throw out an idea, if it hasn't been suggested before...
how about having a sticky topic where people can call out the names of anyone they think is cheap, with a brief discription of why. ???
it would be a bit of revenge anyways, and might stop all the other posts about ass fighting and the like...
............................by the way, this guys handle was Kaze. hehe.
that felt kinda good.

Sutek
05-20-2002, 11:42 PM
And what about the unjustified claims that would get added? If someone got annoyed over an isolated incident and decided to post a complaint, or even if someone just wanted to drag someone else's name trhough the mud?

I think that it would just end up being a mud-flinging contest, for those who have the most online friends alone. (he who has most friends, get's most votes/friendly support in an argument)

Gar Suul Von
05-20-2002, 11:53 PM
more opinions please, i don't like that one.. lol.
no, seriously, i do see your point, and your probably right, but i think for the most part it would give people a sense of justice. personally i wouldn't be too worried about my name popping up, as i play as honerably as i can. i would rather lose a fight w/ pride, then win it being lame. after all, what do those silly wins/losses really mean once you go to a new map>?

Sutek
05-21-2002, 12:02 AM
You're right, wins/losses mean nothing really, but it sure is nice to see your name with a big fat score next to it :>

I also try to play as honourably as I can, but I have no compunctions about resorting to "dirty" tactics against people who use them themselves. Which unfortunately leaves me open to similar accusations. I also had such accusations the first day I had the new patch, and was trying to master the backswing move (so I could use it WHEN I wanted to, not just if I was lucky - I don't use it anywhere near as much now as I did then)

MadKiwi
05-21-2002, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by Thyme
What's this about turning your saber off? That shouldn't put you in any safe mode. I turn mine off and run around so it is harder for enemies to zero in on my color, also they can't track my glow from underneath... I never thought I was safe by turning it off. Am I abusing some custom? The manual even says to turn it off for stealth, not for neutrality.

Thyme, read my most more carefully. I don't mind if someone has their saber turned off but I DO mind when they complain that I killed them while it is off (especially after they have just done lightning or something on me). I hope that makes sense :)

Thyme
05-21-2002, 02:38 PM
That makes sense. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't abusing an honor system out of ignorance. Sounded like they expected safety with their saber off and I hadn't heard of that. I like to play in the spirit of the game and not take advantage... you die more, but the experience is more fun cuz you're "In the game". So, Saber off is fair game. Thanks!

Nathan Wind
05-21-2002, 02:45 PM
you are at the mercey of other players. Why would you join an internet game if you wanted to talk on the phone all day?

Thyme
05-21-2002, 02:52 PM
Nathan,
Do you have multiple browsers open? Cuz your reply looks like it belongs to another thread. It makes no sense. Were you "contributing" somehow? Is this some sort of Yoda wisdom where two short disparate sentences seem to make you wise beyond your years? Who were you addressing? Try writing a rough draft and getting someone to proof it for ya...

SpaceMonkey1315
05-21-2002, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by MadKiwi
Ok so I was playing in a ffa and I ended up having quite a long duel with some dude. After a while I figured he must be nearly dead because I hit him heaps of times, then suddenly he puts his saber away and presses the chat key just as I'm about to finish him off. I finish him off anyway then he kicks up a big stink about how I attacked him when he was typing and then he does his best to try and get me kicked. I'm just wondering what does everyone else think about this, was I in the wrong or did he just press the chat key because he was nearly dead and didn't want me to kill him. Sorry to rant but for some reason it made me really angry, has this happened to anyone else?

stupid people who do things like that are like the ones who take advantage of the saber off no kill rule...they go into battle, and if they think they're gonna lose, they turn off the saber and run away...normally, i have no problem with the saber off rule, and i do it myself, but when i see someone try to abuse it, i go up and kill him

Nathan Wind
05-21-2002, 02:57 PM
a "no kill if saber is off" rule is bogus. that was my point.

Phr00t
05-21-2002, 03:27 PM
"You are unwise to lower your defences..."

Vader said it best. I would only kill someone with his saber down if we had already begun a fight. For example, in a duel, someone stops to type or fix something and I'll slice his waist with a strong slash. Nothing wrong with doing it after a fight has started.

HappyPrancer
05-21-2002, 07:14 PM
My philosophy is this: If a community invents dumb rules about when you can and can't kill people, the best way to deal with such rules is to abuse them until people realise they are stupid, dumb rules.

So, obviously you were in the wrong, but thanks to people like you opponent, it is becoming considered less irresponsible to kill people with type bubbles.

Kudos to those abusing dumb rules!

-HP

Gar Suul Von
05-22-2002, 01:29 AM
and who are you to call these "rules" dumb?
do you even know what dumb means?
these in fact, are what one would refer to as "unwritten rules".
they exist in all facets of life and games.
name any sport, and there are unwritten rules that apply- things that you just don't do. same goes for any job you have, any relationship you have, and anything else you could think of, which in your case, may not be much.

Vestril
05-22-2002, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by Gar Suul Von
and who are you to call these "rules" dumb?
do you even know what dumb means?
these in fact, are what one would refer to as "unwritten rules".
they exist in all facets of life and games.
name any sport, and there are unwritten rules that apply- things that you just don't do. same goes for any job you have, any relationship you have, and anything else you could think of, which in your case, may not be much.

They're unwritten because everyone does not have to follow them. Some people get annoyed when others don't follow their unwritten rules, and thats ridiculous.

Lets pretend it's your custom to jump up three times, crouch and spin around ina circle before every duel. You consider it a sign of respect. Just because I don't do it back, doesn't mean I'm disrespectful, it just means I play in a different way. People need to deal with this instead of getting furious about it.

To summarize--I might have been raised on a different set of unwritten rules than you, if you can't deal with that, you will waste a good portion of your life fighting useless battles.

MadKiwi
05-22-2002, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by Vestril


They're unwritten because everyone does not have to follow them. Some people get annoyed when others don't follow their unwritten rules, and thats ridiculous.



Most people agree on these unwritten rules because they make the game better. For example, in most mp games it is an unwritten rule that you don't kill your teammates. So you think you can go around teamkilling and nobody will get angry, welcome to the real world mate.

Vestril
05-22-2002, 07:13 AM
Originally posted by MadKiwi


Most people agree on these unwritten rules because they make the game better. For example, in most mp games it is an unwritten rule that you don't kill your teammates. So you think you can go around teamkilling and nobody will get angry, welcome to the real world mate.

Teamkilling is stupid. It goes against the goal of a team based game--for your team to win. Not bowing doesn't remove anything from the game, it doesn't work against the purpose of getting a better score.

Not killing someone with a chat sign is nice, it's polite, but I don't expect people not to kill me if I throw mine up and turn my saber off--I don't get angry at them if they do, killing is part of the game, and I was admitedly an easy kill.

If another person feels that they need the frag, good for them--it doesn't typically counter my purpose of winning the match. I can't say I've ever been in a game where I noticed that someone won because of a large number of type-kills.

In any case, my point is that teamkilling is more than violating an unwritten rule, not killing your team is implicit in joining your team--it works counter to your purpose. Not killing people who are typing, or have their Sabers off is nice, but it's JUST that, no more.

Essentially your point doesn't affect my argument is what I'm trying to say. You're talking about something different.

Master Rooster
05-22-2002, 09:21 AM
What annoys me is if you are in an unnofficial duel in ffa (not with blue glow, just fighting 1 on 1) and they run off and pick up health and shields. I wouldn't mind if it was in a normal fight, but if you've both bowed before hand, I don't think this is a fair thing to do.

My current solution is to turn off sabre and walk away if they do it. Then if they kill me it becomes a dishonourable kill. Of course if i carry on and then kill them I'll laugh.

SithMaster2003
05-22-2002, 11:49 AM
Personally, I believe in only one of the unwritten rules. No Weapon = Peace. I only believe in it because i find it annoying when i put whatever weapon i am using away so that i can do something without being interrupted.

To this point, i only play on servers where people actually play by this rule. If they say they play by it, then i wil probably play there. If not, i go somewhere else.

I don't mean to flame those who are in it for the frag. If that's what you're in for, go for it, just not on my server. I believe in a little bit of honor or order (whichever you prefer), so the game can be played without mayhem.

So, for all of you people out there whining because someone plays with no honor, please go f*** yourself and fall on your saber. If you want to play with honor, find a server for it, if not, play where ever you want.

funkshen1
05-22-2002, 01:53 PM
:newbie:

hi i am a total noob to the entire jedi knight series, but not to quake though.

i actually played online fo rthe first time yesterday and man was that a b!tch. 1 hit and i die. and those punks always use this 1 move but i haven't learned how to do it yet. and yeah i did see some ppl with a icon over their head but i didn't have enough time to figure out wtf that was.

i guess i'll be getting better soon. btw, that emperor's throne room map is the bomb.

ArtifeX
05-22-2002, 02:43 PM
so do a lot of others:

http://www.oculis.org/asc/

GooglyMoogly
05-22-2002, 03:06 PM
I run my own server that states "Saber Of = Peace". I do this because I run FFA games and like to duel, but don't like waiting in line on real duel servers.

Now, there are two cases when I turn my saber off:

1. To show I'm looking for a duel
2. If after a non-challenge duel I'm hurt bad and need health/armor.

Most players respect this rule (since I kick them if they don't obey it), but there are people that try to use it as a tactic and that doesn't fly in my book.

As far as I'm concerned, turning off your saber during a duel does NOT fall under the peace rule. Once a duel has started all is fair game. That being said if someone turns off the saber then types something Im ok with that...if they do it to avoid dying it's not ok. You have to take it on a case by case basis.

For those of you that thinks it's gay, that's your opinion. If you want to kill ppl that are OBVIOUSLY not interested in fighting at that moment then be prepared to suffer the consequences.

Following this rule brings me much more enjoyment from the game. I can't stand the random cluster-fuc*s that occur on most FFA servers, you know what I'm talking about...a group of people all mashed together swinging wildly or simply spamming backstab-backsweep moves into the crowd. I usually just stand outside the fray and will sometimes turn off my saber letting other players know I'd like to duel or fight one-on-one. Most of the time I leave my saber on and wait until someone strays from the pack.

Agree or disagree...I just find that *fighting* with the saber is MUCH more fun than swinging wildly like a friggin moron. People that agree with the saber off rule are generally better fighters and are more interested in having a good fight than having the highest score.

P.S. I've only seen ONE player in all the games I've played that actually topped out his score with skill. The rest are gankers and spammers that think the name of the game is "Jedi Anarchist".

DrNutz
05-22-2002, 04:25 PM
Here's my two cents on each of the main subjects here.

#1) It sux when you are playing against cheap bastards that will try to kill you while bowing. It's retarded and disrespectful. BUT, it is unwritten and not a rule, just nice. It shows that you are ready and that you respect your opponent eough to deserve a bow. Personally I will allways bow when playing on any public server, but if I am playing LAN against my roomates (who don't bow at all) I won't. But my roomies don't deserve that respect anyway ;)

#2) My saber is off allmost allways. If I am not defending an attack or attacking, my saber is off. The reason behind this is because I can tell what stance someone is in if they stop moving for just one second and they have their saber drawn. This way I know what to expect. I like to be unpredictable. If I need a min to gather my beer or whatever I will state so from a long distance away and make sure that my opponent knows that I need a second. If I get no acknoledgement, then I say game on and beat them, then grab the beer.

Nathan Wind
05-22-2002, 05:02 PM
playing disrespectful doesnt equate to cheating.

dumb manners.

flippo
05-22-2002, 05:46 PM
I never signed any agreement to bow, or not kill typers, or not kill people with their saber off. Personally, I don't kill people typing if they are in a corner or something. But if we are dueling then he decides it's time for a break, he's a dead moron. I don't bow either. I think it's probably the stupidest thing ever started in a game. If I am dueling someone and he is 9/1, I'm not going to bow to him, I'm going to try my hardest to kill him. Respect? Please. Do you honestly respect random people on the internet? No, I don't think so. I will, however, let people bow if they want, but if they are just walking around with no saber, trying to look like a badass, well, I can't guarentee their safety.

Fractal-Coffee
05-22-2002, 09:27 PM
I agree with flippo (and any of the other opinions that follow the same trend). People can bow if they want. I'll let them, and then stab them in the head when they're actually ready to fight. Same goes with people typing, or doing whatever else they do while the speech-bubble thinger is over their head. As soon as they're done, they're fair game. If, however, they "type" just to get out of dying, I say butcher them and move on. Too bad if they complain.

I'm a bit iffy about the "Sabre off = Peace" thing though. If someone's wandering around with their sabre off, they're either trying to look "bad" or they're trying not to draw too much attention (which makes sense, really). I might pause im my Slash of Doom if they show absolutely no interest, but other than that...
What Phr00t mentioned (Vader's comment "You are unwise to lower your defences...") is perfect. If I'm in the middle of a fight, and you (you in general) decide to turn off your sabre, you're a fool.

On another note, I find it amusing to taunt my opponent if they bow. One guy's showing the utmost respect, his opponent is flipping him off (more or less).

SithMaster2003
05-22-2002, 11:53 PM
I hope someone is keeping track, cause I lost count of how many times people have b!t**ed about this stuff.

Let's face facts here. People are gonna play however they want to. so until you actually learn how to use mind trick or something in the real world, there isn't any way that you can change their techniques.

If you follow some sort of code (sberist, anti-saberist, or some guns code) then i would recommend that you ohnly play with people who play by those kinds of rules. Because when you don't, and you get your @$$ owned becaused of it, you come here and complain that no one plays with honor or some crap like that. If you get owned because no one else will play by your rules, that's your fault.

So, if you want to solve your problem, go play on a server where your kind of rules are enforced, or even host your own.

As for the cheap @$$es who like to use one-hit saber moves and crap like that. Well, it's just that, they are cheap and there is no changing that. There are ways to beat them, you just have to learn how to do it.

There is no way to prevent them from being cheap, so just deal with it. And honestly, in my opinion, if they are only using one-hit kill moves, then they are really playing the game for the wrong reasons. I play it for the saber battles.

I thought the saber battles were cool to begin with, but after i downloaded the patch i thought they were even cooler. Of course that thought ended when i joined a live server and played against real people and found that the only way they could win was with one-hit kill moves. Now i have to play their dirty ways in order to win a few.

So like i said, just deal with it, stop your b!t**ing, and good gaming.