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GoodSoup
05-21-2002, 09:19 AM
my god, when will it stop?!!

there's no need to discuss the fact that Episode I sucked, and we all hoped for Episode II to prove to us that george can still do it. but what has he done?

the first STAR WARS movies used to be originial and unique. but if we look at ATTACK OF THE CLONES.....

1. doesn't Coruscant remind us of Blade Runner?
2. car chase in Coruscant = car chase in 5th Element...
3. the clone factory is surprisingly familiar to the one in AI
4. the geneticist race bear a stinking resmblance to certain aliens in Mission to Mars or Stargate-the Series
5. is it just me, or does the arena look like the one in Gladiator?

...not to mention the countless plot errors, strange dialogue lines and sudden (frankly amatuer-like) camera settings.

look, i know i sound bitter, but as a true STAR WARS fan, i can't believe the cheap crap george is giving us, is really what STAR WARS is about.

the books and games that have come out over the last 25 years, are a million times better and more authentic than the last two movies (with their merchandise) will ever be.

however, i haven't given up hope for Episode III and i will never stop believing in the true essence of STAR WARS. i hope there are like minded TRUE fans somewhere out there who agree with me.

CmdKewin
05-21-2002, 12:34 PM
IMO, the last scene of AOTC (not the marriage... the previous one :D) perfectly represents the true SW spirit....

COJ
05-21-2002, 12:49 PM
your name disturbs me, and what ur saying is bull****, too lazy to explain, maybe tomorrow

Vader10
05-21-2002, 12:51 PM
For every lamer like you that THINKS they represent the TRUE fans in saying the movie sux, there are 10 people who like the movie. STFU. nuff said

Ferox
05-21-2002, 01:36 PM
cmdkewin has it right... for me personally i have never loved a star wars movie like this one, i have never been a bigger fan of star wars then i am recently, yeah i grew up with star wars(24), had the toys etc. but i was never a huge fan when i grew up. that scene with yoda leading the troops was my favorite star wars scene of all 5, and this movie is my favorite of all 5.

Sithxace
05-21-2002, 02:26 PM
yo about how all the scenes were like other movuies, George Lucas said that he had these plots and ideas since he wrote the orignal trilogy. So all the other movies copied off of him.

dorain8
05-21-2002, 02:38 PM
If you watch episode 1 then 2 you understand lucas needed to make episode 1 more happy and play ful to forther distinguish the fall to the imperial times in 2 and 3
(there are toher things in movies than just action and plot)
they are called MOOD SETTING BASIS.. THE LIST GOES ON
AND TO BE FRANK EPISODE 1 WAS PRETTY DARN GOOD
CMON JARJAR WAS ANNOYING but the story was great
and cmon how can you hate darth maul or the podrace
or even the droideca's. wait the best was
"coruscant coruscant umm wait that does not compute wait, umm hold on- YOUR UNDER ARREST!"

the arena 1st off
looked like ancient roman, which also looks like ancient mayan
ALMOST EVERY ANCIENT CULTURE HAD THOSE ARENAS!

2. car chase... 5th element
when were the police involved, when did willis jump out of his
vehicle, when did obiwan and anakin blast down the other
ship? (if your sayin cuz it had a car chase) alot of movies have
them THE ONLY SIMILARITY IS THAT THE "CARS" FLY THROUGH
A CITY

3. blade runner city,
the city in blade runner was like the slums i dont think it
resembles coruscant that much

4. AI SIMILARITIES
lucas's team has been building models for this damn thing for
years, and if it looks like anything it looked like the duel of
fates balconies.

5. Stargate the series aliens
dude there was about 1000 different species in that show
i think alot of their characters are based on ancient egypt
(hmm where di they get their ideas) o wait they took ideas
from star trek, and starwars.

not to mention the countless plot errors, strange dialogue lines and sudden (frankly amatuer-like) camera settings.

- what plot errors?
NAME ONE!
- ODD CAMERA ANGLES??
what film school have you attended?


look, i know i sound bitter, but as a true STAR WARS fan, i can't believe the cheap crap george is giving us, is really what STAR WARS is about.

IF YOU WERE A TRUE STARWARS FAN YOU WOULD SEE HOW EVERYTHING TIES INTO THE LATER AND PREVIOUS MOVIES, NOT TO MENTION ALOT OF THE BOOKS.

times better and more authentic than the last two movies

MORE AUTHENTIC?
IT IS LUCAS'S STORY!!!!!!!!!!
HE IS THE BASIS OF ALL OF IT!
BASICALLY HE IS STAWARS GOD WHAT HE WRITE DOWN IS WHAT HAPPENED!!!!!!!!
AND GUESS WHAT MOST OF EPISODE 2 THE BASIC STORY WAS ALREADY WRITTEN DOWN WHEN HE MADE THE 1ST TRILOGY
ALL HE DID SINCE HE STARTED MAKEING THE PREQUELS
WAS
1. CAMERA ANGLES
2. TIE STORYLINE INTO POPULAR CHARACTERS FANS WANT TO
SEE IN THE FILMS! BOBA FETT + JANGO FETT
3. WRITE THE STORY INTO SCRIPT FORM

okay you weak minded fool
EMAIL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE ABOUT THE MOVIE
BECUASE OBVIOUSLY YOU DIDNT UNDERTSNAD IT AT ALL!
DORAIN8@ATTBI .COM

Cracken
05-21-2002, 03:10 PM
Funny how you fail to mention the OT's similarities to the SF of the time. Cloud City? Very similar concept to an episode of Star Trek: "The Cloud Minders". Dressing up in Stormtrooper outfits to rescue a Princess? See "Flash Gordan Conquers the Universe". An impish master teaching an apprentice who goes off to slay an evil creature? Carroll's "Jabberwocky", please. Plus, look at all the movies that have been influenced by Star Wars! All of Kevin Smith's films, nearly all modern SF films, etc. etc.

MotionMan
05-21-2002, 03:21 PM
I enjoyed it. I didnt go see shakespere, or an oscar performance. I just wanted a kick ass star wars movie, and thats what I got. Yea it got pretty dull in the middle but I think it was necessary to tell the story. The reason the old star wars movies had more apeal to some is cause they watched them when they were younger and they have a bigger impact on kids.
Anyhow when I watch the saber battles of the episode 4,5,6 they seem dull compared to the saber battles in episode 1 and 2.

All the Star Wars movies seem fine to me...

lobotomist
05-21-2002, 04:33 PM
First thing i would say is this ... it is just a part of a rewiev of the film i read in newspaper:

"With this film Lucas have shown us that not only that he forgot how to fly, but he also forgot how to walk..."

Nuff said.

I am a hard core SF fan, starwars fan.But i am also art and film student. So i dont only watch nurdy films, but all kind of films, and i know the history and theory of film very good.

Lucas should be ashamed of himself.He managed do destroy even a little respect left for him by the fans, after the first film.He also finnaly showed that he can direct films.He also managed to totaly ignore every critic or sugestion by the fans. (Jar jar binks being back in the film again, after being considered the worst point of the first film).

Well let me give you some points, why the film sucks...

1.The actors Suck big time.It was soprising that the actor that plays young Anakin managed to be even worse than the kid that played child Anakin (which sucked aswell)

2.Dialogues SUCK!!!!! - Especilally the love scenes.I mean i saw cheap Latino Soap operas having way better dialogues - LOL.
example: Anakin finds his mother diying (after probably being raped to death by the sand people). What is the words she says to him (remember she is diying in agony) "Anakin you look handsome!" LOL!!!!! - Than as the cherry on top she says "I love...(than she dies)" LOL - Like what does that means :)) She love icecream? Was that sopposed to keep us in suspence??? Couldnt she say "I love you" and than die??? - I would really like to meet the mongoloid that written the script :)

3.The film brings absolutely nothing. Like what did this part bring, forgettable characters, forgetable story...nothing. I mean first part had at least Darth Maul...Now, Jango Fett- common - Did you know that by the Star Wars Encyclopedia - Jedis was sopposed to fight against the army of people with same armors like Jango?
But Lucas managed to put only one LOL.


-

Only cool thing in the film was Joda fighting count Doku - now this was something for hardcore fans :)

Anyways.I used to see all the star wars films few times in cinema (yes i am that old). This is the first (and i now belive not the last) that i regret waisting my money for the ticket!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

George Lucas-
PLEASE NO MORE STAR WARS FILMS!!!!

Dont emberess yourself even more, dont ruin the last drop of respect for the series...


Lobotomist

Jedi_Monk
05-21-2002, 04:54 PM
Lucas should be ashamed of himself.He managed do destroy even a little respect left for him by the fans
Hi, I'm a Star Wars fan; I respect Lucas more than ever. I knew the man could direct a fight scene, but in Episode II he proved he could do it all.

The actors Suck big time.It was soprising that the actor that plays young Anakin managed to be even worse than the kid that played child Anakin (which sucked aswell)
"They were animals! And I KILLED THEM LIKE ANIMALS!" Hayden Christensen can bloody act! He got one of the most complicated, most skitzo roles in film history and he pulled it off without a hitch! His eyes are so expressive, I can't believe it! You could just picture those eyes staring out from the Vader helmet...

example: Anakin finds his mother diying (after probably being raped to death by the sand people). What is the words she says to him (remember she is diying in agony) "Anakin you look handsome!" LOL!!!!! - Than as the cherry on top she says "I love...(than she dies)" LOL - Like what does that means ) She love icecream?
Listen, bud, last time she saw him, he was ten--she had no idea how he grew up to look, because there's a big frikkin' difference between how a 9-year-old looks and a 19-year-old looks. She was glad he came out handsome and not homely :p And she did get out that she loved him before she died, she just wanted to say it again! If you were laughing during that scene, there's something very, very wrong with you--in the head--mentally :eyeraise:

film brings absolutely nothing.
It shows 1) democracy is a very fragile thing and one wrong turn can bring it all down. When democracy seems to be in danger, you have to act swiftly before it's gone. IT CAN HAPPEN HERE! That's just one of the lessons in this epic morality play--someone can learn a lot from the Obi-Wan/Anakin relationship, and can learn from Padme as well. Obi-Wan is as arrogant as Anakin and he's pushing his Padawan too hard, expecting too much, doesn't trust him, argues with him constantly; pushes him over the edge. What will happen when the controlling father figure finds out his apprentice eloped?

Dont emberess yourself even more, dont ruin the last drop of respect for the series...
Don't embarass yourself by posting on this thread again.

TalonStryk
05-21-2002, 06:05 PM
Is it just me or did the dialogue in the movie sound more like people would say in real life, and not a movie? Come on, alot of stuff he used were cliches (sp?) used all the time in real life. No one sounds perfect in real life. I accually thought it added a little realism to the movie. Imo this is one of the better of the 5 starwars movies if not the best, and ive been watching starwars since i was 2 1/2 years old.

Jedi_Monk
05-21-2002, 06:28 PM
Yes, they do use some clichés, but mostly the dialogue was very timeless. Lucas doesn't throw around slang that will go out of fashion in a couple years which is why ANH, a movie made in the 70s, is still as fresh today as it ever was. What they say is ver deliberate--they tell what they feel, they show what they feel. Star Wars is a morality play, not an attempt at realism.

UnrealJedi
05-22-2002, 01:01 AM
Sometimes I get the feeling fans go to a Star Wars movie expecting to see Oscar caliber writing, directing, and acting, and then they feel let down when they don't get that. Personally, I think those fans have this huge expectation built up in their minds and then when it isn't what they expected they feel cheated. Fans who feel cheated about Episodes 1 and 2 need to take a good long look at what expectations they had for the two films and see if that influenced whether they enjoyed the films or not.

Star Wars is science fiction folks. It's going to be over the top, some scenes are going to be corny and some lines are going to sound downright ridiculous (and there were some ridiculous lines in Ep 2). But this is what makes Star Wars so cool, and if you watch it without any expectations or pre-conceived notions, you'll enjoy it much more and be enormously entertained.

And let me just say I think Natalie Portman is hot and Hayden Christensen, if his film career continues, will become one of my favorite actors. His dark scenes are his best. I think he'll really shine in Ep 3...guess I'll have to wait and see...

Jedi_Monk
05-22-2002, 01:17 AM
Sometimes I get the feeling fans go to a Star Wars movie expecting to see Oscar caliber writing, directing, and actin...
And ya know what? I don't give a great, steaming pile of poodoo what happens with the Oscars. Lost all respect for "the academy" since they passed over Lord of the Rings for Best Picture, Peter Jackson for Best Director and Ian McKellen for Best Supporting Actor.

dorain8
05-22-2002, 02:06 AM
hmm where did the word parsec come from

STARWARS!

and guess what a shiz load o movies use the term for distance in space

oya and lucas as a bad director
WHAT HAVE YOU DIRECTED


OYA HAYDEN = GOOD ACTOR
I WOULD KNOW
cuz i am an actor
i belong to a guild
my opinion is worth more than some snot nosed weed smokin film student that lives off mommy and daddy!


SO LETS JUST LEAVE IT AT UNTIL YOU DO BETTER
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO AN OPINION

THE ONLY OPINION THAT MATTER'S IS LUCAS'S
AND SPEILBERG'S (CUZ LUCAS RESPECTS HIS OPINION)

SO BAM! BIACH WENT DOWN
DORAIN8 BIACH BOOMER!

BlackDove
05-22-2002, 02:08 AM
Originally posted by dorain8
SO BAM! BIACH WENT DOWN
DORAIN8 BIACH BOOMER!

I find that part.....disturbing.....

x_Myth_x
05-22-2002, 02:39 AM
Most of you critics claim to be intelligent and yet you use poor grammer skills and half sentences filled with caps.

Episode 2 is the best Star Wars movie ever made. I came out of that theatre with complete respect for George Lucas. I mean come on, look at the creativity! He manages time and time again to create cool looking planets and even cooler almost complete unique aliens. When he makes 1000 aliens for a movie some may have a small resemblance to other aliens. Of course. You try to design 1000 completely unique never thought of aliens. You can only do so many.

I pity you if you fail to understand that "I love...." means "I love you" especially after she said that twice already.

Isn't what you would say in real life what you would want to see in a movie to add realism?

I'm not going to even waste my time replying to pure garbage like "odd camera angles" and "plot errors". How can the creator of a universe have plot errors? sheesh.

It was better than episode 1 because they showed as little Jar Jar as possibly to progress the story and they managed mush for the girls, awesome jedi battles for the guys and C-3PO for the kids (and weird sense of humor moms). Best of all he didn't add stupid childish characters like Darth Maul to kill off other characters.

Enough for now.

GUNNER
05-22-2002, 03:04 AM
I loved it, not much else matters. :rolleyes:

Jonas Bach
05-22-2002, 03:56 AM
i've seen this in forum after forum. if someone DARES to speak their mind on what they see as problems with ep II ppl go ape**** and start abusing the poster...guys and gals, it's a bloody MOVIE. let ppl have their opinions, even if you loved it.

for example, "impressive though the computer work is, it soon descends into video game overkill. only a teenage boy could find this kind of stuff continually diverting, and only a teenage boy would not notice flimsy emotions and underdeveloped acting."

--KENNETH TURAN, LA Times

i suppose i'll be attacked because i dare to agree with much of the criticism of this film. i saw the first film in '77 when i was 12, and seeing star wars then was like having your first love, you'll never get those same feelings back once it's over--even with a film like ep II, which i actually liked in many ways, it's never going to regain that magic...

lobotomist
05-22-2002, 07:36 AM
Heh, yes..my grammar is bad. But not as bad for sombody who is not a native english speaker.. :)

I agree, that everybody has a right on his own oppinion.
My oppinion however is that the new starwars films are WAY worse than the old ones. Old films had charm,story..and they were first class sience fiction films.
New films are Eye-candy...and nothing more.
Surely they are good action films.Yes, first class.
But if they came before the old films...i doubt there would ever been a starwars hype... :(

But thanks to the old films, we all love starwars.And that's why we all go to see the new films.And that is why we debate the new films...

I have high expectations.And i am not satisfied by nothing but the best.And especially not by the second rate action flicks.
And dont tell me, starwars is a sience fiction film, and that is excuse for it to have crappy dialogues???
Why than the old starwars had excelent dialogues?

Let me just remind you on a excelent love scene from "The empire strikes back"

Han Solo is about to be deep frozen by the empire soldiers.Princess Lea cryes : "Han, I love you!", and Han Solo answers with a smirk : "Yes, i know."

Now that is something to remember :)
And not "I love..." (icecream LOL)

But hell, at least i had few laughs in the cinema...so maybe it was not such a waiste of my money :)


Lobotomist
B.E.T.O.N productions

lobotomist
05-22-2002, 07:43 AM
Hey, one more thing :)

Although my critics for George Lucas are harsh , and in my oppinion thrue.
I must definetlly agree. The art design team of Starwars episode 2 really made it this time. Ships, planets, aliens, cities ,costumes ,weapons ... and genneraly every visual and sound detail is excelent.Jawdropping even! I may even say best we have seen until now.

So tumbs up for the ART DEPARTMENT!!!!
Let the people know who are the real heroes :)


Lobotomist

dorain8
05-22-2002, 03:23 PM
fat guy who sits on his fat ass watches movies all day

DON'T PAY ATTENTION TO THEM
THEY ARE SLOBS THAT HAVE NO LIFE OTHER THAN WATCHING MOVIES

ABOUT 100% OF THEM DIE OF HEART ATTACK ANYWAY CUZ THE CAN'T GET THEIR FAT ASSES INTO GYMS

OYA-
THEY CANNOT ACCOMPLISH ANYTHING FOR THEMSELVES
SO THEY SAY OTHER PEOPLE'S WORK SUX TO MAKE THEMSELVES FEEL BETTER!!!!!!!!!!!

ARE WE ALL BLIND FROM THE WORLD?

Master Qui-Gon
05-22-2002, 04:28 PM
All of his ideas are highly derivative of previous work. The original trilogy just as much as the new one. If you don't think so, try reading real science fiction writers like Asimov, Bradbury, or Weber.

I was reading the Foundation series again last night, and it amazes me how many Star Wars ideas came out of there. To pick one at random: Other than the dome over the planet, Trantor is the spitting of Curuscant. Or rather, Coruscant is the spitting image of Trantor (capital planet of the Galactic Empire). It's all fine and good to read books like Star Wars... but you gotta read the real books to. I hope there isn't anyone here who calls him/herself a science fiction fan and hasn't read the foundation series. That's even worse than someone saying they're a fan of modern science fiction movies when they've never even seen Star Wars.

I've got news for you. Star Wars is a derivative work. Period. That's part of what makes it good.

Darklighter
05-22-2002, 08:34 PM
This is in reference to the very first statement on this thread.

GoodSoup, if you were a true STAR WARS FAN you would be supporting the movie and not critising it. This is George Lucas' vision of how the second prequel would go. George Lucas, the same person who created the Star Wars universe and the original films. It is made now and will not be diferent again.

This is how Lucas wanted the beginning of the story to be presented, as well as in TPM. Beyond it's faults, this is Star Wars: Episode II. You can either accept, or moan.

I am a Star Wars fan as well, and I do not moan.

BlackDove
05-22-2002, 08:54 PM
Everyone has a right to disagree...if you didn't like it, that doesn't mean you aren't a true fan...

dorain8
05-23-2002, 02:14 AM
lobotomist boy what was your 1st language?

thats all i ask\

MORE PEOPLE READ THE WRITING WHEN IT ISNT IN PARAGRAPH FORM IF YA HAVENT NOTICED.

OYA ABOUT THE DERRIVED CRAP
(some of it is LUCAS SAID THAT HIMSELF)
BUT NOT FROM AI AND MOVIES POST 1972



all movies have similar ideas
IF YOU WATCH
"STIR OF ECHOES"
you realize that frigin osmond kid's movie
"THE 6TH SENSE"
copied the idea to the letter
i havent heard any bitchen about that
SCARY MOVIE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF THAT ISNT BASED ON SCREAM I AM GUNNA JUMP OUT MY WINDOW
.......... (NEEDED TO ADD A LITTLE COMEDY)

Vicious
05-23-2002, 02:26 AM
Where does anyone come up with this bad acting bull****?
I grew up in a little city called Stratford Ontario, it's main attraction is the Festival Theatre (3 theatres actually) My step mother worked at them, so was able to meet many actors and saw numerous plays and rehersals. I met John Nevil when i was about 6, remembered by most pop culture punks like myself as the well manicured man on the X files. The point is, I can recognize acting, and the cast of Episode 2 did act, quite well. Some of the romantic dialogue seemed wonky, but that's the flaw regarding the actor's perfermance, and seemed to have more to do with the scripting anyways.

BlackDove
05-23-2002, 02:39 AM
Originally posted by dorain8
lobotomist boy what was your 1st language?

thats all i ask\

MORE PEOPLE READ THE WRITING WHEN IT ISNT IN PARAGRAPH FORM IF YA HAVENT NOTICED.

I'm not the one with the caps, son. ;)

Son_e_boy
05-23-2002, 03:42 AM
Man so many of you people that are critising this film say's that everybody should have their own opinion. If that's the case then why do we get people writing: "DON'T WATCH IT!!! ITS CRAP" Oh... now who isn't letting people have their own opinion???

Oh yeah and i also picked this out of a review i read: "Eventually, he reteams with Anakin and Amidala to fight Count Dooku (Christopher Lee), a former Jedi knight who's turned evil and wants to take over the galaxy because ... who knows? He just does. That's how indiscernible the plot and motivations are."

Some people think this plot is written for toddlers. Well maybe it should be if critics can't even figure out why Dooku creates a threat.

And for any of you that wanna tell me off.. SCREW YOU IN ADVANCE :p ehhehehe

Chastan
05-23-2002, 04:17 AM
I think you're talking about Attack of the Cones, sorry, wrong forum.

Natty
05-23-2002, 06:10 AM
GRISSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSY :D *mwha* hi hunny... ok I'm over that, just wanted to give Grissy a special hewwo :)


Can I ask which will probably sound like a pretty stupid question, but why is it ok for people to be unhappy or not really like Phantom Menace that much, but if people say they don't really like Attack Of The Clones, then everyone jumps on their back and get accused of not being a real StarWars fan? Did I miss something? :confused:

OK fine- all 5movies have their weak points and bad points. Mark Hammil, springs to mind. Enough said :p (jk bout Mark Hamill, I still wuvs him BTW- still think he's better in Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back though...)

RichDiesal
05-23-2002, 06:20 AM
After reading this thread, I can't stop laughing... really... I can't... this it perhaps one of the funniest things I've read in a good while.

Bravo guys (and girl ;))... bravo. :p

Darklighter
05-23-2002, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by =SSC=Kal-El
Everyone has a right to disagree...if you didn't like it, that doesn't mean you aren't a true fan...

I understand that, but I reckon Lucas needs all the help he can get at this point. I admit the flaws were quite copious, but anyone with a liking of star wars no doubt must have injoyed the film a litle bit.

OldSkoolJedi
05-23-2002, 06:37 AM
Well, I Thought it was a kick ass movie.....the thing most ppl are doing wrong is comparing it to other star wars movies.

Sure it was'nt necassarly the greatest star wars movie (that is of course excluding others, including myself, that it was the best of all) but just pretend that you had NEVER even heard of star wars (ok so maybe not that harsh) and watch the movie and you will see or should see, that it is a good movie.

Ok, yes the romance was crap, but then look at the mentioned Garage scene ("I Slaughterd them like ANIMALS !), ok now for all you comparers, compare the romance to Mark Hamill's Scene where he tells Leia they're borther and sister and you'll see that the romance and that scene are...about the same =/

Later...
OldSkoolJedi

lobotomist
05-23-2002, 06:46 AM
Heh, my first language is Croatian...english is just one of the others i learned on the way :) (trough the galaxy natturally)

Vicious - You say John Nevil is known to you as a good actor. Well i dont know, but i wouldnt be soprised to find out he really is. But being confronted (and having to execute) some of the corniest lines i heared in long time (in movies, i do hear it every day in soap operas my granma' watches). I am sure that it posed a problem for him. Actually even the likes of Robert DeNiro, or Dustin Hoffman (etc) would have huge problem in acting it, and avoiding looking stupid ...


Darkligter - SUPPORTING???!!! Well let me tell you something about supporting. Supporting something that you stand behind and belive in 100% is surely the way to go. But supporting something that you belive should be done better, and you wish it would be done better is just the opposite of good. Why?
Because , we have the freedom..and not only the freedom. We have the obligation to change our world for the better. If i say starwars ep. 2 sucks. I am not destructive. I say it , because i LOVE starwars, and i wish from deep of my heart to see it as shiny as possible. And hopefully somebody who really mathers would listen and say....Hey, this guys are right, JarJar Binks really sucked....or wow, the dialogues are really stupid....
Lets change it in the next episode, let us take a man that can really direct (why not Steven Spielberg ? - him and Lucas woked together before, and made fascinating results), lets make story more rewarding to our real fans, etc...

I just wish more people wouldnt be afraid to open their minds.Put their feet down and say "I am not going with the stream any more!"
Than many things would have to change , and the comercial industries would just treat us as mindless cattle....



LOBOTOMIST

Darklighter
05-23-2002, 06:54 AM
I've just had a change of heart...

But seriously, I loved the movie. I came out think 'nothing more could have been done to it. Amazing'. I am not putting people down for having opinions - I simply want people to enjoy the film for being Star Wars.

And I do agree, Jar jar Binks whas the c***est charcter ever!

Kit Fisto
05-23-2002, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by GUNNER
I loved it, not much else matters. :rolleyes:

and thats what it comes down to, **** what others think, if you enjoyed the film, great, stay true.

GoodSoup
05-23-2002, 03:44 PM
Hey guys...take it easy...

I put up this thread intentionally because I wanted to see how some of you reacted to my provocative title. I just wanted to say I think it's great that some of you thought about my arguments and really proved them wrong!

Remember, this is just one man's opinion - a lot (hell, all) of my friends loved it and I'm really under fire. I wanted to say that I still revere George Lucas and that AOTC had the best SFX ever and the action scenes are the best I've seen in a long time.

I guess my expectiations were just a little high. Take a deep breath, everyone, and relax.

dorain8 - I'm just a nice guy, I'm not a fat, slobby TV-junkie or a film student. You'd probably get on with me, I'm an ordinary science fiction fan.

lobotomist - hey, are you really croatian? me too! where do you live right now?

Havoc Stryphe
05-23-2002, 04:04 PM
Originally posted by GoodSoup
dorain8 - I'm just a nice guy, I'm not a fat, slobby TV-junkie or a film student. You'd probably get on with me, I'm an ordinary science fiction fan.


I can't resist... that sounds a bit...kinky? :eek:

j/k

I think you meant "get along with me" ;)

By the way, I think the movie was good, but's that's because I don't think Lucas owe's me anything because I'm old enough to have seen the original films in the theatre. Star Wars has always been about Teeanagers, kids and families. So, if the dialogue comes across contrived and only a teenager wouldn't notice it, I say, "Yeah, that makes sense."

Just remember, We grew up (well, most of us, anyways ;) ), Star Wars remained the same. It's going to seem cheesy... we're not 13 yr olds watching it for the first time, are we? <- aimed at those who are older and film students and overly critical, not those who are actually 13 (you guys propablly like it! :D ) [Dont' get me wrong, I loved it! I was referring to those who... nevermind :p ]

squid808
05-24-2002, 01:51 AM
There are a lot of thoughts going through this thread right now, so i'll add mine. I, ever since i can remember, have been a SW fan. I absolutely loved the 70's movies, and i think they were well done. And yes, that's all that really matters. There is no point in forcing the views on anybody though, as it won't change. Mr. Vicious, I don't give a rat's butt if you grew up with Julia Roberts, the fact that you've been around acters doesn't make you an expert. My parents were teachers, but that doesn't make me an administrator. But that's besides the point. The movie lacked feeling. Sure some of the lines were delivered, "I don't like sand, it's hard and coarse, and gets everywhere, unlike you." (or something like that) or "i love you, truly, deeply" (gag me) but as they were delivered, they didn't feel like real people talking, they sounded like people bored of their jobs. Remember back: Natalie Portman (pardon any spelling mishaps) falls out of a flying craft; at least ten feet off the ground, at least going 20 mph. Now, she falls, and when we come back to her, she is obviously hurt. The clone comes over to talk to her, says something i forget what, and she immediately gets up, fine as a summer rain. Now, did she just MAGICALLY get all better? 'Annie' sounded like he was trying to be macho, and the rest sounded too mono-tone and formal. (Except Obi-Wan, I think he did a good job, kudos.) And there are the glitches, which can be accepted with any computer aided/generated movie. (Like in the restaurant, take a drink, nothing outs the cup...) But the worst i felt was the ending yoda sequence. I did not pay to see a comedy, but low and behold, when little green raisen whips out the lightsabre with this dark, ominous music looming in the background, does it feel like the all-important, deadly battle it should? no. The WHOLE audience is laughing. LAUGHING! during the final fight scene. The only time i laughed (besides C3P0) was when portman fell out of the ship. not because it was that funny, but because of the forementioned happening. Sad. I just want to know why many of these things happened.

So no, i didn't like Episode 1 or 2. Does that make me any less of a fan? Hell no. Am i telling anyone to believe exactly what i write, and to conform? no. this is my view. don't get all offensive about criticizing the best movie in the entire whole-world, but if you have something civil to say, even constructive maybe, please by all means reply.

and yes, LOTR was a superb movie, i loved it. i can't wait for the other two. i have the books, and i read them a good number of years before the movie was even thought about. i am a fan. did i have criticism for the movie? yeeeeeesss. am i now a lesser fan or not one at all? oh, it's a bit lengthy, sorry

lobotomist
05-24-2002, 06:04 AM
Hey GoodSoup :)

So you are Croatian also...Hehe , is it just me or is it a Croatian conspiracy against a new Star Wars film LOL
Anyways i am from Bjelovar, but right now i study in Vienna..and you?

The moments i laughed during the film:

1.Anakin finding Shmi and the stupid dialogue...this one really cracked me up.I couldnt stop laughing.
2.Anakins nightmare...why?Because in first few seconds it looked like princess amidala was giving him a blow*** under the covers LOL
3.Generally all the "love" scenes

The moments everybody else finded funny except myself:

Joda fighting Doku.
I dont know.For me Joda is a thrully remarkable personality in SW.And somehow i always wanted to see him in action.And it didnt disapoint me.Since i am a hardcore JK2 player (some of you may know me as Metabaron ),the fight beetween them seemed to be very good and realistically done.Like first they bash at each other with force, than Doku says that the true skill should be shown only with sabres.It reminded me to some great duels in JK2.
Surelly Joda is a midget, and his style of fighting looked funny...but deadly aswell.
Let me draw the paralel to Dungeons&Dragons (3e)
Halflings as the race are 3 feet tall.They are even to small to wield any sword except short sword.But they have +2 dexterity and +1 on Armor class. Meaning that they are so nimble and small that bigger creatures (humans) have trouble hitting them.
In a way Joda was fighting in a way halfling would..he was jumping around Doku, who was completely unable to follow him...

Lord of the rings...
Now look this film, and tell me if one of the actors acted badly, or if there was any corny dialogue? I dont think so ...


Lobotomist
B.E.T.O.N productions

BlackDove
05-24-2002, 06:09 AM
Pogodi odakle sam ja....and Concrete productions??? ;)

BlackDove
05-24-2002, 06:14 AM
Btw, I could go explaining to both of you (two last posters) in detail and defy your posts, but I think everyone should keep to his reality, so peace...

GoodSoup
05-24-2002, 09:10 AM
Thank you, squid808, well said. Exactly my thoughts.

lobotomist - that's cool, I'm studying in Cologne right now.

And everybody else...We aren't the scapegoats you're looking for. Move along.

deadpool99
05-24-2002, 10:10 AM
You forgot to mention how jedi's were based off samuri and the force is based off chi.

And the fact that darth vaders outfit is also samuri armor http://www.yojimbo.com/samurai/warriors.htm

Darklighter
05-24-2002, 10:13 AM
That's cool. I suppose they had to get inspiration from somewhere!

C'jais
05-24-2002, 11:03 AM
Oh puuhh-lease....

It's just like a friend of mine: the original series are untouchable and the movies doesn't have "that touch" to 'em...

-"I love you."

-"I know."

Not corny at all, no sir.

Episode 4-6 weren't that good either, and the only acting that was really good was that of darth vader, even though his outfit looked gay. And the one about the samurai influence: only his helmet *vaguely* resembles that of the samurai's.

The old corny lines between the jedi's/dark jedi's/sith were horrible, only vader could deliver them truthfully.

IMHO the old movies were just as bad as the new ones, with just as bad acting. But guess what, i liked the original films, and that means i like the new ones. No they aren't exactly the old films, but corny dialogue and cheesy acting is just PART of the starwars universe, people seem to forget this.

Episode 1 stunk big time, but that was because jar jar and lil ani were included in the movies. AOTC actually reminded me of starwars, with it's adventurous plot, bad acting and cheesy dialogue... And it was good.

RichDiesal
05-24-2002, 12:16 PM
"YOU DON'T KNOW THE POWER OF THE DARK SIDE!"

Said by any other actor, most of Vader's lines would have been horribly corny sounding. God bless James Earl Jones, he was one of the major forces that made Episodes IV-VI so good.

C'jais
05-24-2002, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by RichDiesal
God bless James Earl Jones

Amen to that!

I couldn't really remember who did the voice for vader at the time though.... James Earl Jones just has "that" voice... Awe-inspiring.

Well, I also liked Han solo, particularily his pathetic attempts at hook-up lines:

"YOU NEED A GOOD KISS!!!!!"
Unforgetable...

Heh, funny thing is, Alec Guiness (old ben) really *hated* his role in starwars, because he thought his lines were so corny and lame:

"Use teh forze Luke!!!1"

Now, not all of starwars acting is bad, but most of it isn't exactly master-class...

I really like Hayden Christensen's acting though: He seems to portray Anakin well (unlike Jake Lloyd) with all his cleverness, "lost innocence", built up hatred for his betters and so on. Good stuff actually.

Ewan McGregor's acting wasn't bad at all either: He really seemed like a younger, more vibrant Obi-Wan from episode 4.

MotionMan
05-24-2002, 09:20 PM
Hayden Christensen played his part well.
I like the part when the white haired naboo advisor says to him,"Master Jedi what do you recomend?" and Padame says, "Oh Anikin is not a Jedi knight yet". Anikin was PISSED!LOL:) He was like "EXCUSE ME!"

I really dont see what Jake Lloyd did wrong either. I mean He is a kid for christ sake.Thats his part. Thats how kids act! Did you guys expect him to act like a mental case child like the kid from the 6th sense??? Quiet, and keeping to himself???

Darklighter
05-24-2002, 10:29 PM
Oh come on! I know kids can't really act well when they're 9 years old. Surely if Anakin had been made 11-12 years old instaead he would have been a bit better. And don't tell me he would have been too old! Luke started training when he was about 30!

Seriously, Jake Loydd just p****d me off bad!!! Jar Jar Binks was bad enough!

Natty
05-25-2002, 06:26 AM
I like Jake Lloyd better- he seemed to play "I love my mother and can't live without her" better than Hayden did, still given his age and the fact he had never been seperated from her before in ep:1 probably has something to do with it :p

Just comes down to a matter of opinion really- saw it again last night, and Hayden is growing on me in some parts, probably coz I think he's yummy :D I still don't like the whole "lets compare Padmé to sand" part though. I quite like when they literally admit they love each other but decide they can't be together coz she's a seneter and he's a jedi (OK, well Padmé decided) and I love his reaction to it. Even when she admits she loves him, awwwwwwwwww I thought it was sweet :) He still irritates me a lot in some parts though

lobotomist
05-25-2002, 06:36 AM
Hey Kal-el :)
What is =SSC= ? A Clan? Jedi knight 2 clan?

Anyways
Hayden Christensen SUCKED! Actually it was his fault that the film sucked at all. Surely , i give you that , he had an extremely hard role to play:
a young padawan who bears powers far greater than his teachers.Ripped appart by his chaotic nature and a wish to become a jedi.And jedi nature is all opposite to chaos.In the time Obi-wan's tutorship starts slowing down Anakins progress to power , wich turns to rebellion and arrogance....what comes later we all know.
Now, such a thorn apart personality role would be a hard cookie even for the best actors today...so how it wouldnt be for Hayden Christensen, who is ,sorry to say - just a second rate performer :(

Anywayz

Yes the old films sucked to (especialy if you watch them today, and not 20 years ago , when they were apsolute BREAK TROUGH!)
But still there is something about them, something that most of the people see but doesnt notice...and this my friends is called :
The atmosphere ...

Nuff said...
LOBOTOMIST

(Onaj koji ce vratiti ukradeni B.E.T.O.N)

C'jais
05-25-2002, 10:54 AM
Actually i think Anakin doesn't compare padmé to sand, but compares the place they are to sand:

-"Not like this place"
-"Here everything is soft .... and smooth" - carressing padmé's arm and back.

That's what i think he said, i saw the movie for the second time last night:rolleyes:

I think Hayden played great, but that's just me opinion, and u can't fight opinions with bad/good taste.

Natty:

I don't think they should have put a child in a starwars movie, it doesn't suit them. I'll admit he wasn't that bad, but i still get the notion that he was just put there to appease the child-audience, along with jar jar, the podrace (which doesn't do anything to further the plot...) and the "roger roger" - battle droids. But that's just my opinion.

Lobotomist:

That atmosphere is called "nostalgia"...
No, the new movies doesn't have the same feeling, but in time they will develop a new kind of atmosphere, i think.
Our opinions about hayden are different, and i respect that.

JoelStoklosa
05-26-2002, 05:44 PM
I think your just an idiot and would not no a good star wars movie if it bit you in the face! P.S. learn how to spell moron

Exar Kun II
05-27-2002, 06:28 PM
When i go to see a Star Wars film, i'm not looking for a best picture candidate, a best actor nominee, or even a best screenplay. i'm there to have fun. I'm there to see the story of a family unfold. I'm there to see futuristic environments and devices laced with an underlying medieval flavor of chivalric honor.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, if you come to a STAR WARS forum and basically debase, criticize, and demean the man who created it all, expect some people to react. . .in a less than tactful manner.

As far as George Lucas "ripping off" other films, I dare anyone to tell me a 100% original film that has been made in Hollywood. Ever.

Just my $0.02.

squid808
05-28-2002, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Exar Kun II
[B]When i go to see a Star Wars film, i'm not looking for a best picture candidate, a best actor nominee, or even a best screenplay. i'm there to have fun.

EXACTLY. and my point is, the movie just didn't make it for me, so sue me. i'm not saying it didn't fly for others, just me. and my immediate family and friends. point being, it's just a movie, people shouldn't get all uppity about it and at the same time entitled to their oppinion. i didn't see the forums name as "completely positive and happy thoughts about the movie only" so again, don't read it if it makes you mad. or, be civil about it. lol, like i said in another thread, if you need to flame, pick something that needs flaming, like telletubbys, or whatever. they NEED a kick in the ass... =)

Redwing
05-28-2002, 01:33 AM
I've noticed that throughout this thread, the main reasons why we should agree that Epsiode Two sucked is that the people saying so are the TRUE Star Wars fans, and that if we don't agree with them, we aren't TRUE Star Wars fans. So we'd better agree, or else. Same thing with bitterly hinting that you have to be immature not to see what the critic sees, so you'd better agree so you'll be seen as "mature".

Sorry, you'll have to do better than that. All you've shown is that a few parts of Episode II weren't up to par. You've failed to show that the movie itself sucked.

My only major problem with the prequels is the lack of a non-aristocratic major character like Han Solo in the OT. That, however, is more an issue of personal preference then the decided factor of whether the movie "sucks" or not.

What plot errors are you talking about? I didn't see any! The plot actually had depth...but we can't have that, I suppose, at the risk of three year olds not understanding...

Odd camera angles? Huh? Isn't that putting down originality?

And did you really go to see a STAR WARS movie for good dialogue?

Basically...I think GUNNER and Exar Kun II summed it up pretty well earlier in the thread.

squid808
05-30-2002, 12:06 AM
so you agree that the dialogue was pithe? besides the older black and white soundless movies, isn't the dialogue a main part of it? imagine reading a book with not one piece of dialogue, even though it follows characters... tough, for me anyway. and yes, it's like those e-mails... "if you don't send this to 4,987,276 people in half a minute, you aren't a christian..." same thing, to me anyway. it's all about personal views.

Darth Facism
05-31-2002, 03:54 PM
I liked the movie overall , my only gripe with the movie is when that coward Anakin kills sandpeople's children and women. Then tells padme he killed them and she marries him ?. She is nuts and that to makes no sense. Then yoda can't tell he butchered all those people? The Jedi council putting up with Anakin's nonsense and murder ? If that's the case the Jedi knights deserved to wipped out.

Count Beefstew
05-31-2002, 09:04 PM
Is it just me or do most people skip over posts such as this:

"OYA, I'M DORAIN8. I FRIGGIN OWNED U. I'M A FUGGIN IDIOT TYPED ONLY IN KAPS. YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MOVIEZ. I KNOW EVERYTHING INKLUDING MOVIEZ, AND ZBELIING! BIATCH WENT DOWN. I MAKE CENTS. YEAH!"

BlackDove
05-31-2002, 09:08 PM
Yes we skip that because the post explains itself, and it doesn't need a reply, however why the hell would you bump the topic just to say that?

RichDiesal
05-31-2002, 09:09 PM
Originally posted by Darth Facism
Then tells padme he killed them and she marries him ?. She is nuts and that to makes no sense.

She is destined to marry him and cannot help herself. She is drawn to him because her place in history is to give birth to Luke who will force Anakin to bring balance to the Force in RotJ. :)

Then yoda can't tell he butchered all those people?

Yoda did know, but what are you going to do, kill the guy? They want to turn him back to the light. If they go up to him and say "Hey, you're turning evil, stop it," you think that'd do much good? :p

If that's the case the Jedi knights deserved to wipped out.

Eh, probably so in many ways, but that's personal opinion. ;)

zefreak
06-03-2002, 03:00 AM
Originally posted by GUNNER
I loved it, not much else matters. :rolleyes: :fett:

i saw it and i dont see why you are all whining about it. grow up, although the books are awesome, especially the ones by timothy zahn. long live yoda!

LooNBB
06-03-2002, 02:14 PM
Hey Guys... this is a little off topic but... sorry I have to..

MEXICO 1 - CROATIA 0

Viva Mexico Cabrones!!

Darth Facism
06-05-2002, 12:32 PM
We all know she hooks up with him, but to say destiny made her do it is a bunch of bull, it's called "bad story telling" take out the love scenes that weren't done well anyway, and u have a great movie.

AgentSmith
06-05-2002, 06:22 PM
They say they're true fans, entitled to their opinion that Episode II is bad and George Lucas owes them and screwed up.

Tisk, tisk, tisk. Jealousy, envy, vanity ... how sad.

My 2 cents :

If you think it sucked, don't go and watch it! Let it be! Quit nagging and go watch something you do like!

Think George Lucas does a bad job? Fine, go out to Hollywood and make 'your' version of the movie. Invent it, write it, start the necessary companies for the fx, direct the actors with good dialogues and acting. We'll surely go watch 'your' version and dissect it with as much pleasure. Will you be able to take the heat then?

Didn't meet your expectations? Your own fault. You should have gone to see it without any expectations. Perfection doesn't exist. It's a myth, an illusion. A personal, unique figment in your perverted brain.

Bad dialogue? You say that because you fail to realize that the characters in the movie won't talk and act like you because they are not you, they didn't have your upbringing and live. Therefore they'll talk and act differently from you.
E.g. Jedi are trained and thought to be calm, passive, and so on. I'm surprised their speech isn't even more monotone and flat.

Hey! Here's a concept that works! You're entitled to your own opinion and to express it here. Please do. But don't act like god all mighty who's come to give us his religion of truth. if you want people to respect your different opinion, respect other people's too and don't come in acting like your opinion is the only correct one.
Every person sees the world differently and has a very own opinion because it all depends on our own point of view.

Plot? You don't like it because you probably didn't get it! :p The clonetroopers that save the Jedi now in EP II will eventually be that same army that evolves into Emperor Palpatine/Darth Sidious' army that will fight and exterminate the Jedi with Darth Vader(Anakin Skywalker). Everything in EP II was expected and so manipulated by Palpatine/Darth Sidious. He counted on the Jedi and the Clonetroopers to fight the Seperatist army. He engineered the entire scheme so that the Jedi and existing armies in the Republic (Which all join the seperatist movement.) get wiped out and that only the army of clonetroopers which he in the end commands remains. He even was able to legalize and create the 'need' for 'his' clone army.
I thought for some plot elements it rated close to the Usual Suspects. Kicked ass!

You people focus soo much on the negative. Why not just enjoy it? Or are you just such poor excuses for people that you have to break down and bitch at everything?
I'd almost pity you...

ET Warrior
06-05-2002, 11:37 PM
You ask why Yoda couldn't tell Anakin had killed all those Tusken Raiders? Well, they couldn't see if there would be a war, the Jedi could not sense the creation of an entire clone army.....their ability to use the force had been diminished, because the shroud of the dark side had fallen.

And Padme did look frightened when anakin was talking about slaughtering the sand people, but she also understood his grief. and it was destiny that brought them together....and you cannot say destiny doesn't play a part in Star Wars.....because the emperor and Vader are ALWAYs talking about destiny in the OT..

I don't see why that upset you that anakin killed all the sand people though....i mean seriously.....he turns into Darth Vader....he's a BAD DUDE....and he was pretty much really really pissed off at the moment

xX-Ender-Xx
06-06-2002, 12:50 AM
I thought both SW movies were awesome, but i dont know what was better, the trilogy or the new episodes...

Redwing
06-06-2002, 01:03 AM
Originally posted by Darth Facism
I liked the movie overall , my only gripe with the movie is when that coward Anakin kills sandpeople's children and women. Then tells padme he killed them and she marries him ?. She is nuts and that to makes no sense. Then yoda can't tell he butchered all those people? The Jedi council putting up with Anakin's nonsense and murder ? If that's the case the Jedi knights deserved to wipped out.

Why does everyone miss it when Yoda and Mace are talking about the Dark Side clouding everything? I mean, they can't see that a Dark Lord of the Sith is the Supreme Chancellor of the Republic---even when they're told so! The Jedi's ability to use the Force is greatly diminished. Even Yoda can only sense Anakin's emotions, rather than his actions. Qui-Gon Jin is the only one who can see him...and Qui-Gon is dead. Big help. ;)

Padme is kinda nutty to be marrying him, yes. But Jedi kill all the time, in case you didn't notice. Knowing that would make it easier to accept what Anakin did, (for Padme anyway) especially when for all she knows (thanks Cliegg), Tuskens aren't even human. You have to understand that these people don't think like us.

AgentSmith
06-06-2002, 06:04 AM
Hey if someone hurt or killed someone I care deeply about (like my wife) I'd kill the sob's as well as their kids, their grandkids, their parents, their grandparents, any other family, their friends, the friends of their friends and everyone they know. :maul:

Plus with Padme loving Anakin. She loved Anakin already before he killed those Tusken Raiders. Why would her feelings change? Sheesh, how many people these days don't 'fall in love' or have relationships with people in jail/murderers? :confused:

And the Jedi council and Jedi order are not prone to letting padawans or Jedi to themself or banning them from the order if they do such things. They'll try to help or turn them back first. Whenever a Jedi is killed, dies or leaves the order that's a great loss that is deeply felt by the order.

lord xeen
06-06-2002, 11:43 AM
everyone has their own opinion....

some lines between anakin and padme were a little redundant tho..

honestly speaking.. it was a great SW movie

go yoda