View Full Version : Klorel's Mace Windu in progress

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05-25-2002, 11:29 PM
here is a preview of my mace windu [textures not yet added]:http://www.geocities.com/crazyhamster03/macewindupreview.txt
*geocities is wierd about linking to forums so it doesnt work the first time, just delete the http:// and try the link again and it should work.

i have exported it as a .md3, but cannot export it through md3view as a .glm. has anyone done this before? did the textures from the origional skin file still work? also i dont want to lose the origional animations, i am only modifying the model, i dont have the software or patience to animate one :p
any help is appreciated

05-26-2002, 01:51 AM
One suggestion I have for you is to make sure his "shirt" goes down as far as mid-hip, and then his tabards a bit farther.

Hope it works out well! :)


05-26-2002, 08:13 AM
Oh yes! I desperately need a Mace Windu model for my Single Player level.. please please please include the facial bones so I can use him for cutscenes?

Also, feedback regarding the model.. very good, as Brad said.. the tabard goes a bit further down.. can't wait to see it textured...

05-26-2002, 11:32 AM
thanks for all your support :) i'll pull the tabard down like you suggested, i actually was getting to that when i realized i had no way to save the file without loosing the animations :( -- cheek bones are going in too. if anyone knows how to save or export as a .glm it would be most helpful. or atleast export without loosing any animations. I had previously skinned the origional model but decided that it would be best to modify the model itself if i'm going to make a really good Mace.

05-26-2002, 11:39 AM
* Pats Klorel on the back *

As for the saving stuff... hopefully, Cheshire, Monkey, Blood or Sith will stop by and give some info....

05-26-2002, 12:06 PM
thanks, i hope it works out too :p , here is a new more updated pic: http://www.geocities.com/crazyhamster03/macewindupreview2.txt , it wont work as before, you guys know what to do...
i made the cheek bones more prominent and did some work on the tabards. tell me what you think, and if anyone out there knows how to solve my problem please help!

05-26-2002, 01:32 PM
Ahh cool... big improvement, definately taking shape more now.. I think he needs to be a little bit better built though...

[edit: Actually, instead could you make his tabard and sleeves baggier? Also is there any chance of having the tabard detail across the chest meshed instead of textured? Check out some pics below....]


Darth Odisse
05-26-2002, 02:16 PM
Some more reference images:





05-26-2002, 03:02 PM
pls note: on geocities if you want people to be able to link directly to your images, just rename them to .txt, and people will be able to click the links without copying... just fyi

Oobedoob Benobi
05-26-2002, 03:16 PM
yes I fully agree with AKPiggott it is very good, but the sleeves do need to be baggier and the tabard should be meshed like a downward pointing isosceles triangle from his neck to his chest. Good job so far:thumbsup:

05-26-2002, 04:14 PM
i'll work more on the tabards and making his suit "poof" out more, thanks for all the reference pics, they should help out a LOT, for textures as well. I think that i lost the animations for the model by importing it into milkshade. i was origionally just going to modify the model, but since i dont have animations to worry about i might as well just go all out and add little things like a tabard mesh. anyone who knows about animating would be a great help because i dont think i have the software or knowledge to do it at this time.

05-26-2002, 05:10 PM
I don't think it's like Half-Life where you animate yourself... you just anchor onto the humanoid skeleton..

05-26-2002, 05:27 PM
heres a new update. still not complete, working on a few things, any other comments would be cool. hopefully the animation work. i tried to export it as a .glm with modview but it didnt use my model or skin... :( it was just kyle. anyone know anything about this?

05-26-2002, 06:56 PM
Lookin good! The "shirt" is about the right length now :) I would model the tabards in as well, so they can stick down a few inches farther (The tabards are the wide strips of cloth that the Jedi wear over their shoulders).

This one listed by Odisse is the perfect reference shot for you: http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/Episode%20II/Mace%20Windu.jpg

Keep up the good work!


05-27-2002, 05:13 PM
heres mace with tabards meshed:
now all I have to do is figure out how i'm going to get the model from Milkshape to JO, and how I am supposed to texture it, i've textured models before, but that was just by modifying old textures and I assume that the files will have to be different for the actual model once it is changed. any help is appreciated

The Rel)ee(V)eR
05-27-2002, 05:23 PM
That is very good...Only thing I can reccommend is to make the sleeves baggier...they are much more wide than that. Other than that, excellent work

Oobedoob Benobi
05-27-2002, 05:43 PM
yah the sleeves need to be baggier. good job!

05-27-2002, 05:45 PM
Cool! Tabards look about right. Agreed on the sleeves, they're looking good now, but if you make them slightly baggier at the shoulders, then taper to about twice as baggy at the wrist openings, it'll be perfect. Can't wait till you're done with this, looks like it's going to be a good model :) Can't wait to see it skinned! :D


05-27-2002, 05:48 PM
hey Klorel,
JW, how did you make the face? I couldn't make one in MS3d (it looks like thats what youre using) to save my life!

Garik Loran
05-27-2002, 06:35 PM
Yes, I think this is going to be a fine model. Good job.
Hmm, one thing I recognized. The model seems to be too thin, Mace Windu is bigger, more bulky.
But you are definitely on the right way. Keep it up!!!

Oobedoob Benobi
05-27-2002, 06:47 PM
Ah yes now that Garik Loran said that I see it too. The sleeves need to be baggier and his shoulders need to be more bulky.

05-27-2002, 07:30 PM
Fantasmatic! Are you gonna skin it yourself Klo'?

05-27-2002, 09:11 PM
Originally posted by winner_rex
hey Klorel,
JW, how did you make the face? I couldn't make one in MS3d (it looks like thats what youre using) to save my life!
This model is a modification of the Galak model. but if your trying to do the face by scratch i recomend you use a geoshpere, delete the faces you dont need, and use the divide edge under the vertex tool to make more polys near the eyes and for the nose and such. then just drag each poly individually, should work fine.

05-27-2002, 09:31 PM
thanks for the advice!

05-27-2002, 10:34 PM
no prob.
here is a new updated pic with baggier arms, i also made him a *little* bulkier, but not too much cause i think that it looks pretty "mace-esque" as it is. anything else? does anyone want me to attach a box or two onto his utility belt? or will that be fine as a skin on the belt? i plan to texture it myself, but i am wondering if anyone knows how to create the origional mesh .tga's to do the modeling on from the model? here's the newest updated pic:

05-27-2002, 10:49 PM
Sorry to nitpick, but you might wanna taper the sleeves as they open a little. :D

Oobedoob Benobi
05-27-2002, 11:02 PM
ah much better but you do need to taper the sleeves just a bit, if you feel like adding stuff to his belt you can add that strange brown thing in his belt and this silverish square next to it.

05-27-2002, 11:03 PM
you mean make the sleeve openings not as baggy? or just make them get less baggy as the sleeve goes towards the hands

Oobedoob Benobi
05-27-2002, 11:06 PM
to taper is the gradual lessening of width in a long object.

05-27-2002, 11:13 PM
this what you mean?

Oobedoob Benobi
05-27-2002, 11:18 PM
I can't really see the difference from the last pic you posted and this one, but if you look that the picture http://www.vengeance-unlimited.org/Jedi%20Outcast/Episode%20II/Obi-Wan/Hi-resolution_Mace_Windu.jpg you can see how the sleeve width gradually shortens as it goes to his body. In your model the sleeves seems to stay the same width.

05-27-2002, 11:19 PM
^Yep, that's what I meant.

05-27-2002, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by Klorel
this what you mean?

Other direction, actually. They should get slightly less baggy as they go toward the shoulder. The wrist openings should be the most baggy part of the sleeve.

Looking good, though! One thing that might make it more seem more bulky is to make the neck a little thicker.


05-28-2002, 01:17 AM
Mace Windu: thicker neck, retapered baggy sleeves:
and if anyone knows how to get this model into modview linked to some .tga's so i can start skinning that would be great. also i dont think there is any skeleton information in the file when i converted to .md3... so i may need some help on that too. does anyone know of any good tutorials on this? or has anyone done this before? please, don't hold back, bestow your knowledge upon me :deathii:

The Rel)ee(V)eR
05-28-2002, 02:25 AM
Ok now it is pretty much perfect, but ONE more thing... I think the cloth on the shoulders should go out more...kind of hard to describe, look at that ref pic a few posts up to see what i mean...

05-28-2002, 04:42 AM
Nice model. I'd like to see him with a cloak mesh that can be on or off dependinf on what skin you want to use.


05-28-2002, 12:29 PM
a full body cloak would be a little too ambitious for me right now, especially since i dont have softimage, but when I get more experience i may put out a cloaked version. here is the newest pic, I played with the tabards on the shoulder a bit, i think this is looking done. just asking again, does anyone think i should model the pouches on the belt, or would that look fine as a skin? well, anyways, heres the pic: http://www.geocities.com/crazyhamster03/macewindupreview8.txt

05-28-2002, 01:50 PM
Preview shot 7 had better sleeves IMHO.

Mr. Data
05-28-2002, 02:26 PM
Definately do the pouches so it is as authentic to the real Mace as possible ;)

Data :aobi: :saberb:

05-28-2002, 02:32 PM
the preview8 pic has been fixed, i accidentally, changed one of my ealier models... :rolleyes: so i fixed the correct model and screenshoted him... retry the link... also i still need to add the pouch(es)

05-28-2002, 06:27 PM
heres the newest pic... i think its done... any comments?
http://www.geocities.com/crazyhamster03/macewindupreview9.txt :mace:


Oobedoob Benobi
05-28-2002, 06:33 PM
Nice job, yes i also think you are done with the modeling job. Now you just need to skin him. Good work!

05-28-2002, 06:41 PM

seriously, though, very impressive model you got there. and i agree with you and Oobedoob Benobi, i think the model is nailed down now. it's time to make him really look like the jedi master that he is. can't wait to use him in some purple-saber, dueling action.

dunno if it was asked before ... any idea on taunts/sounds you plan to use?

keep us posted on the finishing touches, and definitely keep up the great work!

Oobedoob Benobi
05-28-2002, 06:49 PM
Ah yes adillon is right we need to think about a taunt for mace. anyone have suggestions?

05-28-2002, 07:00 PM
in doing a preliminary search for episode 2 multimedia, there doesn't seem to be a whole helluva lot out there of mr. windu. however, if somebody had a "copy" of ep2, i'm sure we could find something that's perfect. hmmm, if only somebody had a copy ... ;)

05-28-2002, 07:10 PM
what about "this party is over". you can take it from one of the trailors and it would make a good taunt.

05-28-2002, 07:22 PM
I have the "This Party's Over" taunt... I recorded it when I was making my own Mace skin a while back... e-mail me if you want it...

Oobedoob Benobi
05-28-2002, 07:23 PM
Ah good idea because most of the time trailors don't have much or any backround sound.

05-28-2002, 08:39 PM
Yep, stick a fork in him, he's done! :) Looks great! Can't wait to see him skinned! Now that you've finished this model, you can use the body for other Jedi! Just swap the head (and hands of necessary) and you can make endless Jedi models!

And I agree, there's no question, "This Party's Over" has to be the taunt :D


05-28-2002, 08:47 PM
Looks good, but his head looks a wee bit too big for his body.

Ray Stantz
05-28-2002, 10:08 PM
That was the first taunt I ever decided to use when I downloaded the first Mace Windu skin.

05-28-2002, 10:13 PM
looks great...i am a man of few words:D

05-28-2002, 10:15 PM
"this party's over" was going to be the taunt from the beginning. I mean, if my mace was gonna absolutely positively kill every motha-f$&%# in the room, "this party's over" is the taunt to use, except no substitute. Its from the trailer for TV, when all the background noise is absent, its crystal clear, and i even trimmed the front and back to optimize space, so all you hear is Mace saying "this party's over". should be good.

ANYWAYS, I am wondering if anyone knows how to bring the root.xsi into gmax... I'm having trouble with this, any suggestions? :mace:

05-28-2002, 10:26 PM
have you got an xsi exporter for gmax?

You will need one. What formats are easily importable for gmax? I know theres a bunch of custom scripts for gmax - I would save a copy of the root.xsi for you if you find out what formats that you will be able to import. It has to be a format that will support the Max bone system - md3 is out of the question since it only saves the vert info. (That is why you can use any animation system you want to animate a model for quake 3)
Obviously jk2 is different and everything depends on you weighting your modelling to the skeletan.

05-28-2002, 11:05 PM
ok, my .xsi EXPORTER for gmax won't load, i think it has something to do with the core.dll, not sure. I can IMPORT:
.3ds .prj .dxf .md3 .shp
.ai .ige .igs .iges .stl .wrz .wrl .wrz
but i'm guessing none of those will do. Is it possible to save the .xsi as a .gmax(cause i can open that)? I also have 3d Studio Max R3 if thats anyhelp.

by the way spacermonkey, i've used your tutorial so far, great job, its really helping - quick question on it though, where do i alter the LOD, is it in md3view? or do i have to do something in max. also when you apply the checkered texture, it appears in the edit uvw window on your screenshot, but not on my computer. thanks for all and any help

05-29-2002, 10:29 PM
ok, well i have Max 3, that may be a problem with .xsi files and such. anyone have any suggestions? also, once i have done uv unwrap... what do i do to get my texture to a .tga or a .jpg? am i missing something here?

05-29-2002, 11:53 PM
I assume that ridge on his forehead will be less noticeable when he's skinned?

05-30-2002, 12:26 AM
assuming your talking about where the face meets the top of the head, it will look better in game, but thats why bald models aren't as common as hairy ones :wookiee: . it won't take away from the final coolness that is mace... 's'all good. :p

05-30-2002, 12:34 AM
he just looks a lil small , but oh well.
Maybe if u widen his chest or thighs it would look better for me
But it looks great right now still

05-30-2002, 02:09 AM
I *may* make him thicker, more worried about him fitting the skeleton properly at this point (if i ever get it imported :barf: ) also the uvw mapping part of the tutorial is a little confusing, so that will take some time too...any help is appreciated.

hey, wouldnt the line "waste the motha f%*($s" from rules of engagement be a good samuel L jackson quote... to bad he had to say the cool "party's over" line in ep. 2, that sure would have been a good taunt. i know i would be scared to fight him... :p
what my model should be: :deathstar: what my model is: :deathii:
what my model will be if no- one helps me figure out how to do this (my first model): :edeaths:

:holosid:~Help me obi-wan kenobi, your my only hope...

05-30-2002, 04:21 AM
Wow, Impresive, most Impresive. The best Mace Skin I've seen, even without being finished, it looks magnificent.. Cant wait till its ready.. Well Done!!!! Tyrael D.

05-30-2002, 03:07 PM
Ok, you UVW mappers out there. is it better to UVW map it in gmax or in 3D Studio Max, i have R3, and it seems there are more material options (a lot more) in Studio. also... when i save the UV unwrap its a .uvw file, is this supposed to be like this? will it change to a bunch of .tga's and .jpg's when i turn the model back into a .glm? ... which is another problem.... i can't export .xsi... or import for that matter. can anyone send me a .gmax and/or .max file with the .xsi skeleton in it? I guess i'd also need them to export the .gmax file when i'm done too so i can start skinning it. any help is appreciated.

:holosid: -help me obi-wan kenobi, your my only hope

master steve
05-30-2002, 06:19 PM
umm this is isnt much help but i think your model looks really good and mace windu like :)

05-30-2002, 07:16 PM
i'm a perfectionist :rolleyes: so here is another modification... my last modification... to the model. His upper body is bigger and stronger, and his "shirt" poofs out more where it is tucked into his belt. I played with the jawline a bit, and fiddled with the lips. this is it, mace windu, now in pog form!!


hope you like it :mace:

Oobedoob Benobi
05-30-2002, 07:29 PM
whoa that is even better then before! excellent job!

05-30-2002, 07:39 PM
thanks. ok, here it goes...
It has come to my attention that JKII is designed to work with max R4.x.... and I have R 3.x SOOOOO..... i can't import or export .xsi files. therefore: i need help. If i email you the .md3, can someone (with experience) attach the skeleton and uvw map the model? then send it back to me with the .tga's and .jpgs for the skin so I can texture (skin) the model. I know this sounds easier than it really is, but unless I get some help here, my mace won't be slashing up any jango's anytime soon. Perhaps Absath or Bloodriot (not to bash on the jango, actually i think thats the best model i've seen, its up there with sithlord-II's vader (and the yoda and wookie when they are finished) could offer some help(not to volunteer you guys, just using you as an example because you put out quality work)? or maybe someone of similar experience.

also, mad props so far to spacermonkey, his tutorial is awesome and i think anyone with max R 4 should give it a good look. if it werent for my software limitations, that would be the only way i could ever attach the skeleton properly(i got as far as the hierarchy :( ) but couldn't load the skeleton)
the model has everything it needs, even the caps and segments, it should even fit the skeleton perfectly since i based it off of galak. so if anyone can help it would be most appreciated.

05-31-2002, 12:51 PM
anyone? common, you know you waaaant to.
think about it:
my mace: :deathii:
if you help: :deathstar:
if no one can help: :edeaths:

05-31-2002, 04:22 PM
Hmm.. try e-mailing the model to spacermonkey....

05-31-2002, 06:11 PM
Well id be happy to load the skeleton for you and connect the bones. But I havent been able to get the weight working correctly yet. And im sure i wouldnt be able to uv map it well enough. But im pretty sure u can do all that in gmax. Only problem i can see is exporting the xsi. (cept maybe the uvmap which i havent really tried yet)

05-31-2002, 06:59 PM
thanks for offering to help darthcobra. since i dont have max R 4.x, would it be possible for me to work on the .gmax once the bones have been imported by someone else?
maybe all i would need is for you to email me a .gmax file with the bones in it, i could then merge the scenes, and then i'd email you the end result to export once i've uvw mapped it and weighted the bones and such. my email is mirenner@vt.edu , and hopefully that will be enough to keep me going.
also, if my plan doesn't work as stated above, would someone please tell me of another way?

thanks for all and any help.

05-31-2002, 07:34 PM
thanks for the email cobra, i'll get to work and see how that goes.


ok, well the skeleton.md3 crashes my gmax, but the skeleton.gmax works so i'll try that.... here we go...

05-31-2002, 09:03 PM
Wow, I really like the improvements in that last pic! :D

05-31-2002, 09:27 PM
thanks :) .

ok, heres the deal, the rest of the skeleton is inside the mesh.... except the hands. this is wierd because i didnt' modify the hands at all from the origional... so i dont see why this would happen. also the finger bones are bigger than the fingers anyway, so what do i do?
heres a pic: http://www.geocities.com/crazyhamster03/handproblem.txt
this skeleton deal is hard.... :rolleyes:
modeling and skinning are easy... its the in between stuff that makes it difficult(and by difficult i mean impossible)... i def. have a whole lotta respect for the guys who know how to do all this "skeleton" stuff...

:confused: -help me your name here , your my only hope

05-31-2002, 10:21 PM
I would have to guess that you scaled it not exactly correct. Its kinda a pain. What i did was put the top of the head just below the neck before i scaled it. But it is very important to make sure all the bones are lined up to the mesh properly. So im guessing you imported a glm for alot of the model. Not that you would wanna restart but i wanted to note that the new glm importer keeps the uv maps so any unaltered mesh shouldnt need to be remaped.

06-01-2002, 09:49 PM
I dont mean to be too harsh but as a 3d modeler (non game models so dont ask) and artist, I have to be highly critical.

1. Head is too big
2. Have you even LOOKED at the reference pictures???
3. The Vest and tabards are WAY too thin.
4. The vest should extend slightly past the shoulder, It is not a pair of suspenders pal. PAY ATTENTION to the reference pictures the other posters have provided!
5. Smooth things out some, especialy the sleeves.
and finally, 6. Taper the shoulder of the sleeves some more, The shoulder fits fairly close and THEN gradualy flares out as it estends to the wrist.

As for the general fact that I am being critical of a model I myself cant make, I am HIGHLY knowledgeable about Jedi "Uniforms" As I am into costuming.

Darth Odisse
06-01-2002, 09:57 PM
Jedi are free to wear whatever they like from the time they become Padawans, the Jedi have no uniforms.


06-01-2002, 10:26 PM
As for the general fact that I am being critical of a model I myself cant make, I am HIGHLY knowledgeable about Jedi "Uniforms" As I am into costuming

he’s also a hair stylist, a therapist, a chiropractor, a biologist………

as for my Opinion:
i see nothing wrong with The Jedi Badass... but i cant FULLY tell untill you skin it

06-01-2002, 11:13 PM
When you finally texture the model, one good idea would be to make a "Shaft" skin as a tribute to Samuel Jackson. It wouldnt be hard, just make a leather jacket and black underclothes. Another good idea would to make his taunt as "feel the force mutha *@$%@$":atat: remember, its just an idea.

06-02-2002, 12:10 AM
ok. well... this first part will address DigitalVapors "suggestions"

1. Its already modeled, in the can, sealed... finito.

2. I do appreciate criticism...CONSTRUCTIVE criticism. and NO i didn't look at the reference pics, why would i go do something dumb like that!? :confused: . If theres anyone's figure i know off the top of my head better than my own its samuel l. jackson's.

3. Of course i looked at the reference pictures... I would be stupid not to. and when i finish modeling this and someone sabers you to death with him in a duel, the last thing you see will be samuel L. Jackson in jedi badass garb staring down at you uttering "this parties over". I think its pretty accurate.--he has a pretty big head in real life by the way, but what can i say, the ladies love him.

4. I can't obviously please everybody... I personally like the model. if you don't like it, feel free to make a mace model yourself more "tailored" to your grievences.

5. :mace:

to everone else -- sorry about this post, just addressing some issues.

thanks for the support YoDa2k2 and everyone else. and vogtrob, good idea. But I think i'll leave the other Samuel L. Jackson characters to the rest of the community-- to add thier own flavor to my model. Can't wait to see what people do with the skins when he's done. And i'm pretty sure someone could clip together such a taunt using the many S.L.Jackson movie quotes from over the years. of course they would most likely all be inappropriate, but thats the fun and intimidation that is samuel l. jackson.
have a nice day :)

06-02-2002, 12:13 AM
If you guys would look at the other posts on this thread from Klorel...he needs help UVW mapping, while spacermonkey's tutorial is really good it is Klorels first time UVW mapping and could use some help. While i dont know jack about UVW mapping i know many of you modelers out there do. other wise if no one speaks up, you wont be seeing a skinned Jedi Bad Ass :mad: any time soon. :(

Model looks awsome... cant wait to saber people with him

Duct tape is like the force, it has a lightside and a darkside, and it holds the universe together.

06-02-2002, 07:49 AM

Help him so we can get the model! :D

06-03-2002, 05:06 AM
What is this? Mace Windu, at the bottom of the page? :D

Anavel Gato
06-03-2002, 07:10 AM
Originally posted by Klorel
ok, heres the deal, the rest of the skeleton is inside the mesh.... except the hands. this is wierd because i didnt' modify the hands at all from the origional... so i dont see why this would happen. also the finger bones are bigger than the fingers anyway, so what do i do?
heres a pic: http://www.geocities.com/crazyhamster03/handproblem.txt ...

Just keeping this question alive in this tread because I kinda have the same problem and want to know the answer too.
I'm wondering also if you need all the bones in the hand. This since the hands are already in the position to hold a weapon which they'll be doing all the time.

06-03-2002, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by DarthCobra
I would have to guess that you scaled it not exactly correct. Its kinda a pain. What i did was put the top of the head just below the neck before i scaled it. But it is very important to make sure all the bones are lined up to the mesh properly. So im guessing you imported a glm for alot of the model. Not that you would wanna restart but i wanted to note that the new glm importer keeps the uv maps so any unaltered mesh shouldnt need to be remaped.

If u dont have the hands and bones scaled and lined up properly you will have lots of deformation. And this is really the least of your problems .. wait till u get to the weighting...


06-03-2002, 12:20 PM
So i guess i'll have to modify the vertices of each finger so the finger overlaps each respective finger bone then huh..... sounds fun. And this isn't even the hard part, i can't wait to see what wieghting and uvw mapping have to bring :rolleyes:

Oobedoob Benobi
06-03-2002, 07:14 PM
Sorry to hear that....well take your time.

06-04-2002, 01:44 AM
Too bad there isn't an easier way.

06-04-2002, 06:09 PM
Saw this at Massassi, I think this may help you out somewhat:

There's a new version of my Ghoul2 model import plug-in for Milkshape3d available. It can be downloaded on my website. http://jedidreams.codealliance.ca/

New in this Update:
-Changed the name of the importer in Milkshape's menu to "Ghoul2.glm"
-Now imports Texture Coordinate UV info

06-04-2002, 07:01 PM
ok.... well still tinkering with the bone attachments and such. no picture updates.... dont think anyone cares about seeing a weighted grey head mesh. The tutorial said everything, even the tags have to be wieghted to a bone, is there more specifics on which tags to which bones? and should i uvw it before or after i weigh the skin? any help is appreciated.

Ray Stantz
06-05-2002, 11:12 AM
Just a worthless bumping up the thread post...

06-06-2002, 02:18 PM
...and again...

06-07-2002, 11:24 PM
Hmm, can't have mace slipping onto page 2, but since I don't like to bump for the sake of bumping, I'll ask a question:

Any progress? :mace:

06-08-2002, 01:13 AM
Ya, gimme already ;)

Maybe I can get lucky and fix it.

06-08-2002, 02:03 AM
ok, well the hand issue is solved, just selected each finger joing in my model one by one and moved them over the skeleton (not as fun as it sounds). I modified my model one last time, and then imported that into max. i'm gonna use the skeleton DarthCobra sent me for the model and perhaps he can export it for me when i'm done. I'm new at all this model>> game stuff, so any advice/thoughts on what i have so far is appreciated. I'm working on the uvw mapping right now, cause thats what spacermonkey's tutorial said to do first... so i am. heres a pic: http://www.geocities.com/crazyhamster03/macewindupreview11.txt anyways, any "professionals" wanna give thier input on it (i.e. distortion issues, will this be fine to skin and such)?

Well, as you have imagined, i too have a real life outside of the game, and dont get to spend as much time working on my projects as many of the people on these forums, so i'll work as fast as i can, but want to do a good job so i only have to do it once :p . wish me luck, personally i think the face is gonna prove to be easier than anything else to unwrap. and just wait till i get to weighting the bones.
2 issues though:

1- i shortened his neck: lowering the head, how will this effect the skeleton fitting properly within him? was this a bad thing? is there a way i can have him have a short neck without screwing up the skeleton locations..... just trying to be as accurate to sammy l. j. as possible.

2- the legs and hips are semetrical, i know there is a way I can just uv unwrap one half and have it semetrically texture the other half, anyone know exactly what that method is?

06-08-2002, 05:54 AM
I rarely reply to topics, but here I just have to. This model is gonna rock!!

oddjob: A-Team
06-08-2002, 12:05 PM
Yeah, delete one side, UVW map the remaining side, then mirror copy it, attach it to your original and weld the verts back up. Done. That's what I have done with my Boushh/Leia model's legs and arms.

06-09-2002, 02:22 AM
cool thanks, i'll give that a try. I'm assuming i can leave all the tags where they were right?, that way i wont have to rename anything. also, theres still the short samuel l. jackson neck issue... will this screw up the head tags? hope not. thanks for all and any help. :)

oddjob: A-Team
06-09-2002, 04:56 AM
It's not the tags you have to worry about if you make your model a different proportion than the skeleton. You have to worry about how it will deform if it's different. You may just plain have to conform to the skeleton. But modeling isn't so much about being accurate. It's more about tricking the eye to THINK it's accurate. And most probably won't notice a slight difference in the shape of the neck, so don't get too attached to the idea.

§ith Lord
06-09-2002, 06:04 PM

Fear...Fear Attracts the Fearful...
The Strong...The Weak...
The Innocent...The Corrupt..
Fear...Fear is my Ally...

06-09-2002, 07:44 PM
I realize that you are already in the skinning phase but I just have to say that his head is huge! Take a look at some of the reference shots posted on this thread and you'll see what I mean. Aside from that, though, it's looking great!

06-10-2002, 02:46 AM
this model is awesome...thats one bad brutha...f*cking cool...i think you should make an anakin model next with the baggy sleeves and alll.....and the braid and make his hair and face look perfect and such...i think your one of few who finds modeling and skinning easy cuz damn i punch myself in the face for even thinking about trying...thanks dude, but seriously think about making anakin ur next project, peace.

06-10-2002, 03:51 AM

§ith Lord
06-10-2002, 01:14 PM
how many times do we have to bump to get some UPDATES AROUND HERE! ;)

his head looks fine, not too big. the face looks exactly like Sammy L. Jackson. but for your next project..how about a luke skywalker that actually looks like luke skywalker?

Fear...Fear Attracts the Fearful...
The Strong...The Weak...
The Innocent...The Corrupt..
Fear...Fear is my Ally...

06-10-2002, 03:33 PM

*hiss* :vadar:

if only this thread knew the power of the dark side.. *hiss*

06-10-2002, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by DarthFreak

*hiss* :vadar:

How about *ho-bur*? :)


06-10-2002, 06:49 PM
ok, heres somewhat of an update:


this post is to address some issues i'm having with uvw unwrap. I uvw map his leg (2 objects: half of torso, and boot) and then go to uv unwrap it. Once i'm in to edit the uv unwrap, i move a vertice, but when i click again it just pops back in place. and also, if a can get it to move, it doesnt show any change in the perspective window so its no good to me that way either. also it will either show the boot or the thigh, not both at once, but i want them to be in the same texture file just to make things less complicated. anyhoo, thats all the trouble i'm having for now, i've looked at the skinning tutorials, but they dont mention this problem (happens with cylindrical, box, and pretty much any form of mapping you can use to optimize the mapping coordinates. any help is appreciated.

perhaps it has to do with the stack? not sure, just throwing out something to think about.

remark 666
06-10-2002, 07:34 PM
looking forward to this model (this model, darth maul, padme, yoda and fully finished kronar).

DaJo Kesea
06-11-2002, 02:48 AM
Lots of good models on the way, I must say. Don't forget to supplement this model with Tex and Mark_Li's Obi Wan(s) and Qui Gon Jinn. The ultimate prequel package, I think! Those guys seem to have mastered the Jedi robes.

Klorel, I'm looking forward to your Mace Windu. Good job with it! I've asked this question of other modelers as well, so it's time I ask you. Will the public be allowed to reskin your model if we want? Do you just want credit for the mesh?

I was working on a few Episode 2 models, still in their early stages, as I am trying to refamiliarize myself with Max. But a few modelers on these forums have already beaten me to the punch, and my attempts are nowhere near the calibur of the ones on the way, so I'm just going to lay low for a while. Keep up the good work everyone!

06-11-2002, 03:58 AM
Man it looks really great! Just one thing. Can you estimate when it will be done?

06-11-2002, 11:55 AM
ok, to address a few questions:

I will be skinning and releasing my model with my skin (and the mesh skin files for other skinners). I encourage other skinners to do thier own variation of my mace (maybe a sith mace). But I would like credit for both model and skin.

Unfortunetally, nud0, I've been really busy lately and I'm also new at modeling for video games, so I can't really say when this will be done. It would be nice to just give the model to someone the way I have it now and they give me back all the files once converted to .glm. But everyone else seems to be really busy with thier own projects, and I would be worried about the quality of thier work on my model as well because I put a lot of effort into the model and I'd hope someone uvw mapping and wieghting the bones would do the same. I've already uv unwrapped the head and face, so all they would have to do is the rest of the body, and i guess the eyes and teeth. But since its just me working on this I can't really say how long it will take. I'm more of a skinner than I am a modeller, and when I tried my own crack at the mace skin I couldnt get past the fact that there was no good model to do it on. Thats why I began this project, cause I didnt see anyone else making one- and hey, there has to be a mace model.

And maybe if someone who knew what they were doing did volunteer to finish the rest of the model > game compiling process (mapping, bones, weighting, hiearchy, converting) then I would let them try the dark mace and release that with the model. It would probably look best if they work off my mace head when I'm finished with it (which is what I start with when skinning anyways).

I do have issues with that because I see with other models, when the modellers who include a lot of different skins with thier model, 3/4 are great, and the rest need some work. So quantity isn't always greater than quality. And I dont think I could say to someone: your skin isnt good enough for the pack. But then again, that was my opinion, but I dont want people to question downloading mace Just because there's a skin they dont want showing up on thier console.

What would be cool is if someone decides they'd like to finish him up to the skinning point, later, I could redo new jedi master heads and hands for the model and eventually get any of the jedi masters who are on the council and wearing a similar uniform. who knows, i'm getting ahead of myself.

One last thing. I'm still having trouble with the mapping in my previous reply and hopefully someone who reads this has read atleast the last page of the thread. Also geocities has informed me that my sight is getting too much traffic (OH NO! :eek: )lol. Which i'm pretty happy about but my links may not work, so if you click on a link, just click once, and keep your window open, cause the problem lies with the fact that people are viewing more than 3 GB/ month (I really only have these 1mb worth of pictures on the sight :p . so if you've seen the picture, dont click again, maybe even save it if you want to look at it later, sorry for any troubles this causes. well, here i go, gonna try the chest, maybe that will work better than the leg.

06-11-2002, 12:20 PM
quick afterthought....what about LOD's? spacermonkey mentioned the need for them in his tutorial.... unclear on how to make them. thanks for the input and all the help everyone.

06-11-2002, 04:02 PM
From the shots I've mananged to see it looks pretty good. Damn Geosities!

AKPiggot , I knew when I saw this you'd have already mentioned your want of a Mace Windu and there you were like first or second reply.
I havn't seen any new updates of that level at Massassi for some time. Whats happening. There isn't even anything at the Editors Corner.

Klorel, cant wait to see it skinned. It looks damn nice.

§ith Lord
06-11-2002, 04:43 PM
Hey Klorel,
ask Kman@Polycount to help you, he seems very good at unwrapping and such, also he is a great skinner and I am sure he could create a very detailed Sith Windu for you, I am very anxious for this model to be released. It is very High quality. good luck getting this sucker ingame and can't wait to play as this bad mofo in MP.

Fear...Fear Attracts the Fearful...
The Strong...The Weak...
The Innocent...The Corrupt..
Fear...Fear is my Ally...

06-11-2002, 04:53 PM
Must...Have...Mace Windu...

06-11-2002, 08:36 PM
DaJo Kesea, it might just be me, but I was under the impression that Tex and Mark_Li wanted to make their own Mace Windu for some reason, so I'm not too certain they'd want to be part of any team effort.
But if you ask me, Klorel's Mace looks quite a bit better than any of their models(though they're still pretty awsome too).

DaJo Kesea
06-12-2002, 02:46 AM
Sorry... wasn't suggesting any kind of team thing happen here. I was just passing along a recommendation for all of us to download the Obi Wan and Qui Gon from TEX/Mark_Li (once released), along with the Mace Windu from Klorel to make a nice prequel collection. I really like TEX's work, so I thought I'd say "If you like Mace Windu, check out what these other guys are doing," just in case you all hadn't seen it yet. :)

Actually Windu is my test project for getting back into Max. I know Maya may be better for character modeling in some cases, but I am thouroughly enjoying the surface tools in Max. Klorel, your Mace still blows mine out of the water. (Mine's still just a quarter of a head bust...lol.) Keep up the good work.

06-12-2002, 03:38 AM
No need to apologize for anything, I'm actually wondering myself if Tex and Co. were actually making their own Mace skin.
And upon reading your post again I see what you were actually saying with the whole supplementation thing. My apologies :angel:

06-12-2002, 01:44 PM
Why do I only see an unskinned model when I look at the pics? Is there no skin for it yet?

§ith Lord
06-12-2002, 02:05 PM
Nope, no skin yet. at the moment he is fixing the model and UV mapping it. he can't skin it until he is done UV mapping it.

Fear...Fear Attracts the Fearful...
The Strong...The Weak...
The Innocent...The Corrupt..
Fear...Fear is my Ally...

06-15-2002, 12:39 AM

hua? ITS ALIVE! ALIVE! ..... well at least for now....


06-15-2002, 02:06 AM
Keep up the hard work Klorel...

[jediknightii.net staff]

06-16-2002, 01:20 PM
thanks for all your support guys. I'm currently in the process of getting someone to weigh the bones, uvw the body, and all the other fun stuff before i skin it cause i just dont have the tools. But once i start skinning it i'll do the face first and get you guys a screenshot so i can make his skin as accurate as possible. probably wont be for a while though.

06-16-2002, 01:21 PM
sounds good to me

Hope it works out nicely:D

Master Shawn
06-16-2002, 01:24 PM
This model seems promising, will do nicely in my collection :)

-[JO]Master Shawn Kenobi :yobi:

06-16-2002, 08:29 PM
impressive... most impressive...

06-17-2002, 01:11 AM

06-17-2002, 05:23 AM
Hey, iTeM. You have my avatar. Change it soon, OK? Also, if you got it before you saw mine, then you can keep it.


Darth Torgo
06-17-2002, 11:42 PM
But when this model is done, it really needs to have sound files not only from the Star Wars movies, but also from Pulp fiction. Such as:

'Shiiiitt, Negro--that's all you had to say!"

'Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?'

'And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.' (the part towards the end where he speaks this in the dinner would fit best, IMO)

'Aw man! I will never forgive your ass for this ****. This is some ****ed up repugnant ****!'

Hey, could be fun. :)

- DT

06-17-2002, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by Darth Torgo
But when this model is done, it really needs to have sound files not only from the Star Wars movies, but also from Pulp fiction. Such as:

'Shiiiitt, Negro--that's all you had to say!"

'Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?'

'And you will know my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.' (the part towards the end where he speaks this in the dinner would fit best, IMO)

'Aw man! I will never forgive your ass for this ****. This is some ****ed up repugnant ****!'

Hey, could be fun. :)

- DT

That's actually a good idea!

06-19-2002, 04:32 AM
I think "This party's over" would be best though.


06-19-2002, 04:50 AM
Oooh! How about replace his saber ignited noise with the instrumental (beginning) portion of the Shaft theme! I don't know about anybody else, but that music started playing in my head when I saw Mace walking down the corridor toward Dooku's Balcony in Episode 2!

06-19-2002, 05:12 AM
You guys are kidding, right? I mean, Pulp Fiction and Shaft sounds would be great for skins/models from those movies, but this is Mace Windu we're talking about, and hearing the shaft theme when I turn on his lightsaber for a duel is going to get pretty annoying, and will make it hard to take this model seriously. But it's all up to Klorel, of course, and if he decides to include those sounds I can always change them on my computer.

06-19-2002, 07:35 AM
those are pretty cool ideas, but as inbredyokel said, this model is a serious one, and if anybody out there wants to do a shaft skin with different sounds thats cool too. I wouldnt mind hearing some of those classic SLJ lines when fighting, but not for the windu skin. Also, once i release my model, i'll include the meshes for others to use for a shaft skin or whatever you have in mind.

ok, new news: someone experienced is now doing the uvws, bones and such, and then i'll skin it. :thumbsup: not sure how long it will take, but i want it done well, so im not gonna rush it. Once i start skinning, i'll post some previews for everyone to critique (constructively i hope).

*does anyone know how to get a bot personality in the game? i tried it before, copying another model, reskinning, and changing the bot file to point to my new skin, but the bot wasn't even in the bot menu. Any thoughts?

Darth Torgo
06-19-2002, 07:37 AM
Well, the Mace Windu character is so undeveloped and poorly written in the film, it stands to reason that one would have to look to Jackson's other films to find sounds. I mean, aside from "Party's over," is there anything else out of Windu that is worth quoting? Just a bunch of poorly written lines if I recall correctly. And besides, if Lucas puts B.M.F on Mace's saber hilt, then I think it's just the next logical step to add some Pulp Fiction lines to it.

- DT

Darth Torgo
06-19-2002, 07:48 AM
Oh, and all kidding aside, I do think other films by SW actors should be considered for skins when good lines are hard to come by. For instance, while it would be silly to have some of the Pulp Fiction sounds on the model that have cursing and all in it, if one were hard-pressed for sounds, I'm sure one could find some lines by jackson in some films that fit the charatcer of Mace Windu. Know what I mean? It would probably be better to stick to lass-famous lines or total non-quotables, but especially with Expanded Universe characters, there are tons of interesting choices out there to turn to.

For instance, if one needed voice sounds for Exar Kun (and mind, I know next to nothing about him but I'll use him as an example) they could perhaps think of an actor that has a good voice for the character and seek out a few lines. Say one decided that Max Von Sydow had a good voice for the character--as Max has no shortage of cool villian roles throughout his film history to choose from, one could look to sampling bits from Ming the Merciless in Flash Gordon, his villian in Needfull things, etc.

At anyrate, despite the above joking, I think non-SW films should still be considered from time to time

Good luck with the model!

- DT

DaJo Kesea
06-19-2002, 12:01 PM
Darth Torgo,

I agree with what you said about searching other films for good taunt lines. I actually think that the best one you mentioned was "Oh, I'm sorry. Did I break your concentration?" The others have cursing you won't find in the SW universe (like you mentioned) and unfortunately, references to the Lord don't fit either...unless you're fighting Vader or something, but it would still be a stretch.


Looking forward to your update! Mace Windu is my favorite character in Episode II, and Obi Wan is a close second. Anakin was alright, especially when he fought akimbo, but I still think there were other characters in the film that had a lot better "stage presence" if you will, especially when fighting. Mace was one of them. Keep up the good work.

06-19-2002, 12:44 PM
... might be a good movie for source quotes. I can't recall anything of merit that Samuel says, but he has some very even keel conversations near the beginning.

I think looking for taunts from other audio sources is a good idea, myself.


06-19-2002, 12:55 PM
One thing is for certain though: if someone makes a Prince Xizor model, his taunt better be "To contend with Xizor is to lose." Dammit I love that book :D (and the comic book too)

06-19-2002, 02:04 PM
Has anyone thought of using audio books for taunts from these EU characters?

Would that work?

I haven't heard them, but it might work.

06-19-2002, 03:01 PM
*Bump* Don't ever want to see this thread on the second page. ;D
I need to come post in this thread more often too. :D
Great job Klorel, I'm sure your skin shall own.

06-19-2002, 03:13 PM
Btw, sorry if you already said, but what do you think your next project is gonna be? :D

06-19-2002, 06:56 PM
Originally posted by Aka
Has anyone thought of using audio books for taunts from these EU characters?

Would that work?

I haven't heard them, but it might work.

that's a good idea

06-19-2002, 11:00 PM
Never thought of that! Good idea, man! The only thing I'd make sure of is that it actually sounds like him. I've listened to a few SW audio books and not all the actors sound like their roles.

06-20-2002, 05:49 AM
not sure about the audio books. how about "hold on to you butts!" from Jurassic Park? lol. but i may include a few non- cussing, or, non-memorable, SLJ quotes in there. Then again, i could always splice some samuel L. Jackson stuff together to make my own little sayings up. maybe replace Mother F****r with "sith" or something :D but i'm still aiming to make it a Mace-like-quote, so dont expect mace getting shot then replying "this is a tasty burger"

06-20-2002, 06:27 AM
lol that would be funny but I'm not sure it would fit with Mace, but its your model, heh' and a dam nice one btw.

06-20-2002, 06:41 PM

Oh, and, who's skinning this model anyway?


Uber Sith
06-20-2002, 07:13 PM

When watching the film and i saw Mace Windu walking down toward Count Dooku...

All of a sudden.....WABADOW WAOM.......the shaft theme pops into my head........

hahahahaha excelent..

you could make 2 seprete skins released seperatly one shaft.. one windu

"This Partys Over" has to be the best taunt

06-21-2002, 02:12 AM
Mr.EFF - i'll be skinning it.
is there a way to change the taunt for red and blue teams? I'm not gonna do it on this model, but its just to know. also, for the icon would you rather have a photo-realistic picture of mace, or a ingame screen with the backgrounds just like ravens? i've already made the photo-realistic ones, but its no biggy to change that. any thoughts?

06-21-2002, 02:19 AM
Just like Raven's. That's my suggestion- I think it makes the game look more consistent...

06-21-2002, 02:31 AM
Originally posted by Aka
Has anyone thought of using audio books for taunts from these EU characters?

somebody (i think it was (IK)Lucifer - sorry if i'm wrong :( ) used snippets from the audio books for the kir kanos skin he made. and since kanos doesn't have ANY speaking parts whatsoever in the movies, it worked very well. i do think mace windu's taunt should be a SLJ line, just so it BECOMES the character. whether you get that taunt from ep2 or any other SLJ movie doesn't matter, but to make the model as authentic as possible, IMO it has to be the voice of THE MAN.

been keeping my eye on this thread for a while, klorel. i'm very excited about your project, and really enjoy watching its progress. keep us posted and definitely keep up the great work!

06-21-2002, 02:38 AM
so far this model of Mr. Windu sounds and looks great!!!! Keep up the excellent work, and post updates :)

06-21-2002, 06:38 AM
Looks great klorel...I guess this needs a little bump...bump

06-21-2002, 10:56 AM
Very nice...keep up the good work.

06-24-2002, 06:03 AM
Sorry if this has already been mentioned, but will he have a custom lightsaber hilt? *cough*bump*cough*

06-24-2002, 10:53 AM
1 or 2 people are working on a saber hilt for mace. but i have yet to see his gold plated hilt being made. maybe someone should give that a try. but i'm not going to include extra files with my mace, cause if people want a mace hilt, they'll find on and download it. i dont want my model to not be downloaded cause it forces extra addons that people dont want. but i'm sure there is a mace saber out there. uvws are being finished up and will start texturing soon.

06-25-2002, 06:57 PM
very veryu good - do you know when it might be finshed? i very egar for it!! what pic are you gonna use for when i'm winning!!;)

06-25-2002, 08:12 PM
aARRRRRRRRR has this thred dieD!!!!

06-25-2002, 09:01 PM
Not anymore :evil3:

ok... this pic is really early - so dont expect too much. I still have a lot of work on the forehead (when I mirrored it the highlights look strange, so i'm gonna redo them) and other facial and head touchups:

hope you guys like what i've got so far. If anything looks weird shadow wise its because i'm rendering it in max, my preview pics will look a lot better when i get into modview and in-game.

06-25-2002, 09:06 PM
Looking good, just one comment, don't make him stare up that much :)

06-25-2002, 09:37 PM
Impressive !!!


06-25-2002, 09:37 PM
wow, klorel... for an early skin, that looks really great.

06-25-2002, 09:56 PM
That is one bad motha F****er.

06-25-2002, 10:02 PM
Ok, heres another update. I have no idea why theres greenish skin near the nose and why max is making wierd shadows and highlights in certain places, trust me, whe i get it to modview, it will look 1000 times better, but i moved the eyes down a smidgen and what have you. still needs work, any constructive criticism is welcome. :D


06-25-2002, 10:28 PM
Excellent likeness!! If I may make a few observations and suggestions:

The eyes are a tad too big and round. If you could add some more flesh or bags, for lack of a better term, under the eyes it may look better.

Take a look at this pic and you should see what I'm talking about.


06-25-2002, 10:58 PM
well in your pic he's squinting -- look at the mace on the left of that page, he has large, alert, ready to rough somebody up, dont f**k with a jedi look to him. thats the look i was going for when i modelled him. :cool:

06-25-2002, 11:28 PM
so when will be be ready for action,,,,,,, i have been watching this thred with green eyes!!:c3po:

06-25-2002, 11:43 PM
If this has already been answered I apologise (There's too many pages to check.) Will this model come with his own light-sabre hilt?

06-26-2002, 06:06 AM
when do we get it!! it rocks!! knowing my luck no servers will have it for ages!!!!

06-26-2002, 06:51 AM
hey, that skin is amazing, are you placing the photo on the model or is it by hand? if its by hand, you're a very good skinner man... i dont like the eyes though, they look all black, i dotn know what color samuel l jackson's eye´s are though. very good job...

06-26-2002, 08:09 AM
mostly like brown

06-26-2002, 08:13 AM
This is gonna be the best yet!:D

06-26-2002, 09:23 AM
He is still one Bad Motha F****er

06-26-2002, 04:31 PM
it does look so good anymore pics mate?

Uber Sith
06-26-2002, 04:53 PM
Very nice..i like it klorel

ill give ya a little bit of tidbit advice though

his eybrows seem to me the problem. the kinda swoop from the center and curve over instead of out...they also fade a bit

he also has fint wrinkles and a very slight bulge from his forhead, just above the eyebrows..his eyebrows are a little darker as so are his lips apart form that he's perfect

06-26-2002, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Klorel
well in your pic he's squinting -- look at the mace on the left of that page, he has large, alert, ready to rough somebody up, dont f**k with a jedi look to him. thats the look i was going for when i modelled him. :cool:

I think that the size isn't the problem. It just kinda looks like someone is pulling his lower eyelids down to uncover part of his eye, ya dig? Anyway, very good likeness overall. :D

06-26-2002, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by TEX360
hey, that skin is amazing, are you placing the photo on the model or is it by hand? if its by hand, you're a very good skinner man... i dont like the eyes though, they look all black, i dotn know what color samuel l jackson's eye´s are though. very good job...

Most definitely from scratch, a photo wouldnt look THIS good, photos are always a bad idea for these kind of models, unless of course you photograph the actor (scan his face) but, we all know you couldnt do that ;P . Anyways, great job klorel, looks like he needs a heavier eyebrow, maybe adjust the model? (not eyebrow hair, like.. facial structure) Heh then again, its probally 3dsmax, we should wait for the modview images to judge..

06-26-2002, 08:56 PM
he has already got past the part of editing the model

06-26-2002, 09:23 PM
the reason you are getting green bits is because you have photo sourced it (this may have already been mentioned) I think that photosourcing can work but what you really need to do is greyscale the bugger and then recolour from the beginning. looking nice indeed tho, I must say I couldn't do better myself.


06-26-2002, 10:20 PM
no, the green is from Max, i re-did the coloring, and the eyebrows and made the eyes browner. but yey max still renders that area greenish, you'll see it better in modview, but for now, ignore the greenish blue area (just pretend his nose is broken. lol)

06-26-2002, 10:55 PM
The skin looks good, but his eyes and headsize are a tad bit too large.

06-26-2002, 11:00 PM
that looks good! but I think you should move his eyes closer to eachother. He might look more "normal" then.

Can't wait for the release

06-26-2002, 11:02 PM
You might want to take one of the reflections, or whatever those white circles are, in the eyes.

06-26-2002, 11:04 PM
I changed my mind! saw the pic higher up and I think it looks good. It was the spooky angle that was messing with my mind.

06-26-2002, 11:07 PM
For all of those wanting him to change his Mace model, he cant. He has already past that stage. Plus you guys should have spoken up sooner.
I agree though with morphius_doh, you need to take out one of the eye reflections.

06-26-2002, 11:08 PM
Yeah, the eyes do look pretty far apart, other than that it looks awesome.

Uber Sith
06-26-2002, 11:25 PM
I really like it... but theres somthing about it that doesnt hit me and say " THIS PARTYS OVER"

i mean i love him n all.. the nose and cheeks are perfecet. maybe its the yes casue he looks like 10 years younger than he does...or maybe a little sharpe around the cheek area...i dunno.. and the black bbit around the lining of the eyes needs to go i think

Its almost perfect though.. just a little bit more touch upo.. and give the guy a pupil if it looks good :D

06-26-2002, 11:47 PM
oh ok dude. Anyhew the eyes do look al ittle scary, jus shade em up a bit round the bottom to make em look more round and less WHITE. maybe add some red in on the edge of the whites as well. Looking nice indeed!


Sounds Risky
06-27-2002, 12:31 AM
You sure you can't adjust his eyelids and eyebrows to make him look a bit more serious? He will be fighting a lot remember.

06-27-2002, 12:52 AM
Originally posted by Klorel
no, the green is from Max, i re-did the coloring, and the eyebrows and made the eyes browner. but yey max still renders that area greenish, you'll see it better in modview, but for now, ignore the greenish blue area (just pretend his nose is broken. lol)

hey the skin is great - don't listen to the hole pickers who can't even finger paint!

06-27-2002, 01:19 AM
altmira, he can still change the model... its not like when you start to skin you cant cahgne teh model at all.

The Rel)ee(V)eR
06-27-2002, 01:23 AM
Well, I seem to think what everyone else thinks...The skin itself is perfect...All you need work on is the eyes, make it less white and a more natural color and you're fine..

Sounds Risky
06-27-2002, 01:38 AM
To get my idea accross better, I made a picture.


06-27-2002, 01:52 AM
Och i have sent you a PM....

06-27-2002, 02:25 AM
The picture that och posted is similair to what I mean. In the original, there is a little too much white under and on the sides of his eyes. The skin itself looks very good. The only other thing to me is the head shape. It's a little too big and his chin is less round. Just some constructive criticism. I think all in all its a very good effort though.


I did not post this while you were making the model because I just got an account on these forums yesterday.

06-27-2002, 03:52 AM
Well i can make the chin less round by altering the skin, but as for the eyes, sorry, but i'm done modelling. The only way to make the eyes smaller would be to texture on the eye itself. besides, i personally think it looks like his eyes, if you look at pictures of samuel L. Jackson with eyes wide open, you'll see that he has rather large eyes, most of you i think have looked at the picture ref. above where he's squinting. thanks for your input though. and also, i think the reason you guys think his head is too big is cause max does wierd things to the image when you render up close. the model is fine, trust me.

The Rel)ee(V)eR -- "All you need work on is the eyes, make it less white and a more natural color and you're fine"
you mean the white as in outside of the eyes? if so, i have taken the whitish-brown color directly from a photo of mace and surounded the pupil with it, pure white just looks stupid. you can see this in preview pic 15.
Also, did everyone want me to get rid of the lower right highlight on the pupil? or just fade it so its not as bright?
I really do appreciate all the constructive criticism. Thats the only way one can learn. thanks for everyones support. :)

Sounds Risky
06-27-2002, 04:18 AM
I don't mean to argue, but here's a picture of him not squinting and his eyes aren't as wide open as you have the model. Wouldn't this just involve moving some vertices up?


06-27-2002, 04:40 AM
As far as the eyes go, I was just suggesting that you lift his lower eyelids. Would have to do with the skin itself or the model?

06-27-2002, 10:30 AM
Its the model that would be changed. I tweeked the eyelids, so heres a pic of the progress i've made:
anyone object?
-and dont bother saying the head is too big, it isnt. yours is. lol. j/k. but seriously, 3d max has a happy way of distorting the head, plus i'm up close to it, and rotated a bit, so it just looks bigger cause its closer- thats what i'm focusing on right now is the head, the body will come soon, then you can tell me the heads too small. :D

Sounds Risky
06-27-2002, 10:40 AM
That looks much better Klorel. If you could move the sides of the mouth down a bit, I'd say it's perfect.

Uber Sith
06-27-2002, 10:47 AM
That looks much better now. looks almost exactly like him....brilliant job klorel

06-27-2002, 10:48 AM
My goodness.... A GREAT Improvement. That is near perfect. Excellent.

06-27-2002, 11:17 AM
That likeness is awsome, I think this is going to be the best looking model yet, Way to go man!

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DaJo Kesea
06-27-2002, 11:38 AM
Klorel, Awesome! You fixed the eyelids so i'm not making a suggestion here, but let me explain why the eyes needed to be fixed, and why the community was going nuts about it. When Mace, or any person for that matter, tilts his head down and looks up, more of the eye is exposed. In the movie, and in pictures, Samuel does this a lot for a dramatic, fierce looking effect. However, when you have him looking straight on like that, like the models do in the game, leaving his eyes big like that would have given the impression that they are popping out of his head! Excellent fix.

I have a hell of a time with this too. Notice there is a slight difference in color between your face skin and head skin? That's what is causing the line across his forehead. It's not an easy fix, but getting it right will make a world of difference. (I could be wrong on this, though. If that is a ridge on the model, plese smooth it out.)

I also agree on moving the corners of his mouth slightly down. Right now he looks quite pleasant and blissful. With a slight adjustment to the mouth you can make him look ready to crash any party.

And last but not least, you're on the right track with the eye color. However, I would follow Arco's advice and change the white to a more sandy off-white. I'd also darken the iris, and give him a little more pupil. His eyes shouldn't be totally black, but they should have colors close enough that you "think" they are all black from a distance, but realize they are not up close. The reflected light in the eyes should also be no more than a pinprick of white.

Hope this helps!

06-27-2002, 11:44 AM
Thanks for all the support guys. I'm thinking about redoing the eye texture, or atleast severly modifying the one i have. Also, I'm going to play with the mouth idea, but whatever I do will be very subtle, so dont look for anything resembling a frown, but trust me, he will look meaner than any ill-tempered sea-bass with fricken laser beams attached to its head. have a nice day :)

oh by the way, do you guys want the eye color to change based on team colors? does anyone have any preferences on how i should go about this. There are basically 2 possibilities:
1- i could make a red sith mace (completely origional) and a blue jedi mace
2- just have the normal mace but change the cloth colors

3 - [just for laughs :p ] have the blue version of the mace do blue steel, and the red version do magnum. lol.

06-27-2002, 11:45 AM
Just thought I'd post a body shot as a reference pic.


The pic is at the bottom, just click on it. Its a little far away, but you get a good feel of his proportions.

06-27-2002, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by OCH
That looks much better Klorel. If you could move the sides of the mouth down a bit, I'd say it's perfect.

hey quit hole picking is damn good!!

06-27-2002, 07:51 PM
The improvement to the eyelids is monumental. They look just perfect now. :)

06-27-2002, 08:57 PM
i have to say that, in my humble opinion, i have found the ultimate taunt for mace using an actual clip of SLJ's voice. i was watching sportscenter this morning, and a commercial for the ESPY awards came on, hosted by SLJ himself. it talks about how he wants to get "in character" for each of the various awards ... this particular commercial centering on the best female athlete. and i quote ...


how absolutely awesome would it be to hear this bad@$$ jedi master taunting his opponent this way?

btw, don't take me seriously on this one. i am, without a shadow of a doubt, joking around. i just couldn't resist.

oh, and klorel, the head is looking *BLEEP* incredible. it's eerie how accurate it looks. keep up the great work!

Sounds Risky
06-27-2002, 11:26 PM
Originally posted by slimking

hey quit hole picking is damn good!!

Hey, I just want to make sure the model is the best it can be.

06-27-2002, 11:27 PM
thanks once again. Can anyone locate a detailed ref pic of the back of SLJ's head? since he's a celebrity, they always photograph his face. if not, maybe just the back of some other bald guys head would do, but SLJ's is preferable. i've looked, and all i could find is rogain and propecia (dont ask) adds- lol. :mace:

06-27-2002, 11:31 PM
look for ep2 pics there should be Samuel.L.Jackson:)

06-27-2002, 11:41 PM
I have, but only straight on and some side pics, nothing that details what the back looks like.

Sounds Risky
06-28-2002, 01:09 AM
Here's what I was able to get. It looks like he has two creases going from ear to ear.


06-28-2002, 01:38 AM
Awesome, those should work great.

06-28-2002, 05:36 AM
Well Klorel, "I guess you can Dere-lick my balls, capi-tan."

06-28-2002, 06:35 AM
JangoFett41, "I can Dere-lick my own balls thank you very much" lol.

06-28-2002, 06:48 AM
"Damn its that Klorel, hes so hot right now!"

"relax, dont do it..."

"Its not everyday that your freinds die in a freak gasoline fight accident"


06-28-2002, 09:18 AM
can anyone find the "i dont think so" line from the new trailor? i'd like to use it as one of the sounds when mace gets hit or something like that.

06-28-2002, 10:42 AM
Well, heres some pics of the back of his head. Who would have thought that the back was almost as hard as the front.:rolleyes: anyways, tell me what you think. I'm thinking about maybe adding some highlights, but not sure where as of yet cause the light source was different in almost all my ref. pics, but i'll figure it out. or maybe i'll leave it as is, whatever looks better i guess.


06-28-2002, 10:49 AM
The actual back view of his head is very good. However concerning the angled shot, His head is too curved. If you could decrease the curve and push the back in a litle bit, youd have it. Great work though, its really coming along!

06-28-2002, 10:55 AM
Its not too curved, it was, then i fixed it earlier. in the screenshots its a good curvature, in all the ref pics where you can see the back of his head he's looking down. that gives the head the flattened look. so when he looks forward it would bulge out a little. So the skins good then?

Sounds Risky
06-28-2002, 11:03 AM
Looks good. It does need some kind of highlight though, but I'm just not sure where.

06-28-2002, 11:12 AM
If you have an email address I could email you what I mean. I edited the photo in photoshop. Or if you could tell me how to attach a file to the messageboard I can do it that way. Trust me, I don't know the model software, but I am an artist too. I hope my critcism has been percieved as constructive and not just nitpicking.

06-28-2002, 11:39 AM
All Im saying is that from the side profile, the back of Sam Jacksons head is nearly flat, Look at the pictures. And thats important sice when you use him you only see the back of his head. But I know its harder to do a headshape for a bald head, than for a full head of hair. Leave me an e-mail, so I can send you this pic of my photoshop adjustments. I guess you can decide from there.

06-28-2002, 05:32 PM
what pic are you gonna use for the icon when playing?

06-28-2002, 06:10 PM
Absolutely incredible... and it has facial bones.. I can use him in my SP level, yes! Klorel, you rule...

06-28-2002, 06:23 PM
it looks totalyy awsome i can't wait 2 get it!

06-28-2002, 08:00 PM
Wow, it really rocks, nice one :D keep up good work ;)

06-28-2002, 08:06 PM
cool model Klorel.:)

06-28-2002, 08:40 PM
Can't wait to see the entire model when it's done!

06-28-2002, 09:53 PM
i don't wanna rush you mate but WHEN CAN WE PLAY!!!!! - it looks soooooooooooooo good!! i can't wait!!

06-28-2002, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by nucular_jedi_14
don't bitch about it altimira!!!

riiiiiight. I'm not bitching at all, they were just movie quotes. i think this is the best model out there, and keo - I see nothing wrong with the back of the head, its fine (could use some highlights though). great work Klorel.

"the files, in the computer, ahhhhh" -Hansel

06-28-2002, 10:32 PM
I cant really say when its going to be done, cause i'm still waiting on some revised meshes for the body, but when I get those, i'll start on the body and post some previews.
and neo, this (mirenner@vt.edu) is my email. I cant say i'm going to change it though- i personally think its fine, but your free to present your thoughts on it.

anyways, anybody have any luck getting the "i dont think so" wav from ep II?

And as for the icon, i had origionally created photo icons of SLJ (mace), but now think i'll just use my model and the default backgrounds that the game has so it fits in with the whole game theme. have a nice day :)

06-28-2002, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by Klorel
And as for the icon, i had origionally created photo icons of SLJ (mace), but now think i'll just use my model and the default backgrounds that the game has so it fits in with the whole game theme. have a nice day :)

Good idea. :)

Edward Peretti
06-29-2002, 04:31 AM
looking good. The only thing that looks a little wierd are the eyes. Mabey shrink the iris a little in the texture and bring up the lower eyelids, like this


06-29-2002, 05:22 AM
Klorel, this is some amazing work! Great job on the model, and great job on the skin so far. I personally would say don't change a thing on the face, it's looking great. I did want to comment on the back of the head. I think it looks really good, but one thing I would suggest is increasing the highlights in the back so it matches the look of the front a little more. The front should definitely be brighter and have more distinct hightlights just like it is now, but the back could use a touch more. Here's one thought... How about a shader for the back and top of his head that is every so slightly reflective, so based on the lighting of the level, his head can look shinier? I don't know jack about shaders, but I'm fairly certain that's possible. On the other hand, though, it would increase the file size of the final pk3 considerably I beleive (unless you don't need a .tga to achieve the shiny look?).

I'll see if I can snag a high quality "I don't think so".

Can't wait to see this guy finished!!!

06-29-2002, 06:56 AM
thanks bradfu, i really appreciate it. I actually have been thinking about a shader for his head, that would be really cool, but i dont know how to make them. theres always tutorials, so the question then is this - do you guys think the model would be better if his head had a shader on it? or would you just not download the file due to the larger filesize for this reason?

06-29-2002, 07:13 AM
i wouldnt care what size the file was....but what the hell are shaders?

06-29-2002, 09:59 AM
Hey Klorel I sent you a PM.

Model is lookin good. Both Mace AND Zoolander.

Sorry, I can't help quoting....

"People always ask me 'Are you a model?' or 'You look like a model' or 'You should be someone who...models.' And I just have to laugh, cus I'm so good LOOKING. Of course, I'm a model!"

If you don't have the DVD (or the Deevehduh, as Zoolander would say) then you won't know what the hell I'm talking about. :D

06-29-2002, 10:14 AM
Shader Shader Shader!!!!!!! sweeet

06-29-2002, 10:37 AM

"and keo - I see nothing wrong with the back of the head, its fine"

No one said there was anything wrong with the back of the head. My comment was concerning the side(angled) profile of the model. Look at his last preview post, it is the middle picture I'm referring to. Now honestly tell me whether or not that looks like Samuel L. Jacksons head.

06-29-2002, 10:52 AM
Keo718, stop being such a whiner, Im not trying to be mean or anything. To me, it looked like you where commenting that the back of the head was to rounded (you can do that all you want, i have my opinion too). Yes, i can tell you honestly that the back of the head looks like the back of SLJ's head.
Also, no model can be perfect (except Zoolander of course, lol). You will hardly see a detailed angle shot in the game, just the back and sometimes the front.

06-29-2002, 11:11 AM
- "To me, it looked like you where commenting that the back of the head was to rounded"

Know the facts before you speak.

- "Yes, i can tell you honestly that the back of the head looks like the back of SLJ's head."

Why is that relevant? I'm not going to repeat myself.

- "Keo718, stop being such a whiner"

Don't call me a whiner. I'm a grown man. I thought the reason for these forums is to give feedback.

Im not tryin to cause drama or be offensive, but theres just no need for all that.

06-29-2002, 11:35 AM
This is where im coming from...


'and keo - I see nothing wrong with the back of the head, its fine'

No one said there was anything wrong with the back of the head. My comment was concerning the side(angled) profile of the model. Look at his last preview post, it is the middle picture I'm referring to. Now honestly tell me whether or not that looks like Samuel L. Jacksons head. "

look at the bolded stuff.

for the first bolded part, YOU said the head was wrong.

and for the second, you did ask me if that looked like SLJ's head.

ok after this im just going to ignore you...this is not gonna be another flame thread.

06-29-2002, 11:36 AM
:ewok: - "ok ok ok, lets not turn this thread into a battleground. we are all entitled to our own opinions. yub"

obey my ewok!!!

I tweeked the back of the head a little, keo you probably still wont like it but I didnt want to have to re-uvw it, so its the best i can do. I also rotated the sleeves back so they are hang correctly in-game, thanks to the palpatine thread for bringing this issue to my attention.

"yub. I haven't done anymore on the skin, so i'm not going to post a new preview pic, but just for further notice, since i'm not the one who has to uvw and weigh the bones there will be no more model changes (I think the model is close to perfect now- we're beyond that step), so please just address skin issues from here on out. yub" - :ewok:

06-29-2002, 11:52 AM

The actual back view of his head is very good. However concerning the angled shot, His head is too curved. If you could decrease the curve and push the back in a litle bit, youd have it. Great work though, its really coming along!

Posted by me on 06-28-2002 03:49 AM

In response to Klorel's update post.


"and keo - I see nothing wrong with the back of the head, its fine"

No one said there was anything wrong with the back of the head. My comment was concerning the side(angled) profile of the model. Look at his last preview post, it is the middle picture I'm referring to. Now honestly tell me whether or not that looks like Samuel L. Jacksons head.

Posted on 06-29-2002 03:37 AM in response to your post

Look at the bold.

I don't see how thats confusing.


don't get me wrong I don't dislike your model, I was just giving my input. Your doing a good job.

06-29-2002, 11:57 AM
Lets just drop this ok, neither of us are gonna win. We all have our point of veiws. otherwise it will turn into the ''stop the pit of carkoon thread''.

06-29-2002, 12:49 PM
Whatever man. It was never an argument for me, it was a misunderstanding on your part. But let it rest.

07-01-2002, 08:23 AM
Is it about done yet?

07-01-2002, 09:07 AM
Nope, not yet. I'm still waiting for the new uvw's to be emailed to me, then I can start skinning the body, but until then I guess you'll have to wait, as will I. But i'd rather them take thier time and do a good job than rush it to put out a model thats not the best it can be.