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Exar Kun II
05-28-2002, 08:09 AM
Though I am looking forward to the game, I am a little concerned with the combat system. In the trailer the saber combat looks a little stiff and limited. I have heard that Bioware's other RPG's have had a slash and hack type system. I hope this is not the case with KOTOR, though I know the game is still in development.

Com Raven
05-28-2002, 10:50 AM
how do you define hack&slash ??

Exar Kun II
05-28-2002, 01:15 PM
Look at the trailer and you'll see what I mean.

Com Raven
05-28-2002, 04:38 PM
no, I mean hack & slash in BG ??

Not that I know off....

so, explain what you mean by hacK&slash combat, and what is "normal" combat...

Exar Kun II
05-28-2002, 09:04 PM
I am thinking of the more free combat interface of Jedi knight II. It looked like your moves were very limited in the trailer, but again, i don't want to make any judgements because I know the game is still in development.

Basically when I use the term "hack & slash", it means that all of the duels look the same. However, I'll wait and see. :D

qibbish
05-29-2002, 02:44 AM
Basically when I use the term "hack & slash", it means that all of the duels look the same. However, I'll wait and see.


Ahh, but keep in mind that not everybody uses this definition. 'Hack & slash,' to me, means something that has nothing but combat and little in the way of role-playing content.

The term comes from pen and paper, and referenced sessions that only exercised the combat aspects of the RPG.

Exar Kun II
05-29-2002, 04:56 AM
Originally posted by qibbish


Ahh, but keep in mind that not everybody uses this definition. 'Hack & slash,' to me, means something that has nothing but combat and little in the way of role-playing content.

The term comes from pen and paper, and referenced sessions that only exercised the combat aspects of the RPG.



I see your point. the term is crude, to be sure. I just meant I am hoping to see more variation in techniques for the saber combat. :D

Com Raven
05-29-2002, 12:21 PM
hack & slash, to me, is DS and Diablo...

well, the point is: a system like Jedi Knight means that your skill decides if you win or lose....

and that's the contrary of rpgs....

I love JK II, but lots of rpg fans don't, so it would be difficult for them...

Merkava
05-31-2002, 07:54 AM
hack & slash, to me, is DS and Diablo...

well, the point is: a system like Jedi Knight means that your skill decides if you win or lose....

and that's the contrary of rpgs....

I love JK II, but lots of rpg fans don't, so it would be difficult for them...

Exactly the point I just brought up on the bioware boards, glad to see it brought up here also :)

Each game has their own place, this isnt supposed to be an FPS free style raw player skill based fighting.

While I favor both types (fps and rpg) I dont like the idea of mixing too many elements together from both.

I just really dont want this game to turn out like a JK2 clone...not that JK2 is a bad thing, but copying to many features out of JK2 is pointless, if I wanted to play a JK2 type game, I'd do exactly that and play JK2 itself.

Com Raven
05-31-2002, 08:12 AM
Yeah, that's exactly what I mean...

strange thing is, it seems as if more ppl want it JK style...

Merkava
05-31-2002, 09:40 AM
strange thing is, it seems as if more ppl want it JK style...

I think this is mostly due to an influx of new fans (due to E3 and other sources of coverage) At least thats what I am hoping it is, mostly just people unsure about what type of game this is supposed to be, and therefore assuming certain things about it.

Com Raven
06-01-2002, 12:46 PM
Hmm, that already happened on the official boards prior to E3...

Demolisher
06-02-2002, 06:07 PM
I was gonna post a new thread, but this seems to be on my topic. Will this game be like JK2? Movement, controls, etc? I've never played anything outside of Quake engined games except Diablo II. I like Jedi Knight II so much, but an RPG version of it would be so cool.

Com Raven
06-02-2002, 06:31 PM
It most likely won't be like JK II...

Alfyboy
06-04-2002, 02:11 PM
JKII is what I would define as hack and slash... people seem to make out like it has a really revolutionary combat system. It doesn't... It definately isn't as tactical as most people make out.

Personally I would much rather play a more RPG star wars game than a beat-em-up imitation...

Norin Radd
06-05-2002, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by Alfyboy
JKII is what I would define as hack and slash... people seem to make out like it has a really revolutionary combat system. It doesn't... It definately isn't as tactical as most people make out.



I would agree to a point. The problem with JKII is that you have players that try a Quake 3 or Counterstrike stategy. Running in and trying to takeout the opponent with one hit, instead of utilizing technique and finesse. I've found a select group of players in JK2 who actually make dueling an art, and interesting as well.

ComRaven posted a link to an article on KOTOR and one of the quotes was:

The combat system will feature some phat lightsaber moves and around 50 (!) Force Powers (fifty!?).



So, it looks like this game is going to be on a far more evolved level than JK2. Anticipation can be unbearable.:D

Com Raven
06-05-2002, 12:24 PM
hack & slash is Diablo II and co...

JK II dueling can be very sophisticated if you know some ppl who are familiar with the system...

ppl of course who playit for the first time play button-mashing...

Sithcloak
06-06-2002, 10:23 PM
JKII is not Hack-and-Slash or button mashing if you know how to use it.

An rpg on the other hand is based on skills so I don't think you will have as much control. It will probley be more like the Phantom Menace combat system except you can control cameras while doing it and tons of force powers. (50 is almost 5x as many force powers as the onew that come with JK2.)

Sithcloak

ForceApprentice
06-12-2002, 02:12 PM
where do I find the trailer??
anyway...It is going to be good.. I feel it..;)

Com Raven
06-12-2002, 02:52 PM
www.lucasarts.com/products

Jed Dye
06-13-2002, 01:51 PM
This game could be brilliant if the fighting could be controlled in a JKII manner, with all the other RPG elements present. Controlling your NPC's for example could be thru simple "wingman" commands, or something along those lines.:3headed:

P.S. 3 headed monkies are funny.

ForceApprentice
06-14-2002, 02:44 PM
Controlling the NPC like a wingman command would be nice indeed, only one thing I don't like in JKII fighting method, is that you can not interact with the object in a room with the force, pulling/pushing them, like in JK:Dark Forces2.
In JKII you can do it only when the game wants which happens only twice If I remember right.

P.S. the 3 headed monkey from Monkey Island!! Looking good!!:) ;) :mad: :(

Norin Radd
06-14-2002, 03:57 PM
Well, after reading Jay Watamaniuk's reply on Bioware's boards here, http://forums.bioware.com/viewtopic.html?topic=36408&forum=26&sp=0, I'm more encouraged, though still a little skeptical. For those of you who have more experience with RPG's, especially Bioware products, than myself, you probably already know what the saber fighting will be like.:D



OOPS! Meant to put this under the "saber combat" thread:eek:

Com Raven
06-14-2002, 07:13 PM
but there's no sense in stats if you do things yourself...

Sar'uun Mourtus
06-14-2002, 10:05 PM
There is plenty of sense in stats when you control yourself:
-bad stats could make certain parts of your attack to be sluggish or weak
-good stats could improve this

Com Raven
06-17-2002, 12:48 AM
and it be damn frustrating...

imagine you're good yourself, but hit nothing due to stats....

Darth Simpson
06-17-2002, 09:11 PM
Yeah, I agree with Com, it would be damn frustrating.

And Com, you really like your "..." don't you? :p

StormHammer
06-18-2002, 07:15 AM
Hmm...I'm in two minds. On the one hand, making the combat like JKII would seem pointless...because then you're sure to draw comparisons between them, and wonder why you can't pull off such-and-such a move. And then there's the problem that we already have a fast-paced saber combat system in JKII anyway, so why bother trying to emulate that?

On the other hand, constantly hacking at an opponent and seeing if you hit or miss according to a set of complex rules can also be marginally frustrating, and it could turn into a button-mashing exercise to see how many hits you get in before your HP bottoms out.

Hmmm...I hope they find a compromise or balance between those two scenarios. It'll be interesting to see what they come up with, and I have faith it'll work within the context of the game without being detracting.

Norin Radd...

OOPS! Meant to put this under the "saber combat" thread

No problem. Consider it merged. ;)

Norin Radd
06-18-2002, 07:42 PM
. . .StormHammers, thanks. . .:D

As far as the combat system goes, I'm still skeptical. If this turns out to be as some are describing it, it may turn many people off.

JKII had a very good combat system that emphasized techniques, parries, and counters. The problem is that many people, a lot of them Counterstrike and Quake transplants applied the same principles to the dueling aspect of the game and what you had were players mindlessly running in, swinging their sabers in the "Oh Lord, just let me hit my opponent" style. What I liked about the JKII system was that it gave you freedom to do what you liked. The system for KOTOR sounds more movement restrictive. :D

Master Rile
06-27-2002, 01:27 PM
Xbox magazine say KOTOR has the best lightsaber fighting in it. Its in issue 9.

techsurfer
07-14-2002, 01:12 AM
I think that a sber style like JK2 would compliment the game. I doubt that you'll need to fight with your saber all the time - a lot of the things will be recon missions, finding information etc so when you do need action it should be fast paced and skilled/controlled like in JK2. The difference is that in JK2 its fast paced throughout whereas in KOTOR I think it'll be more varied pace as you go through the game.

covenant_bad
07-16-2002, 09:32 PM
I think having choriographed (bad spelling?) moves would enhance the game. In Jk2 as mentioned before quake and CS players would constantly jump to avoid and slash then run away again. I have only ever found several people who actually duel with blocking and force powers. Id like to see this in kotor. So when you hold down A (or whatever your left key is) then swing your sabre, depending on your stats, you will swing it towards the enemy and if they are more powerful they could deflect your hit or if they are weaker you could knock their sabre to the ground.

:)

Com Raven
07-16-2002, 11:41 PM
I don't think combat will be done as you describe it...

Obnavox
07-17-2002, 06:24 AM
Jedi Knight 2 has a horrible lightsaber system, I hope KOTOR makes it nothing like JK2. All you do is run around in circles or move back and forth, if Bioware can pull off a more movie themed kind of lightsaber battles, it would be great.

Com Raven
07-17-2002, 01:48 PM
KotOR's combat will be rules-based...

joda-kan
07-17-2002, 02:31 PM
I know that most of you know that there are seven VII forms of lightsaber fighting and thay all have a diffrent styles so will you be able you pick what form that goes best with your style.


And say that you can what form would you go for and why
for me it would have to be form VII like what windo has beacuse its close to the sith in terms of fighting...

Com Raven
07-17-2002, 06:46 PM
those styles aren't covered in the rpg rules...