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View Full Version : Ok, some news on 1.04


BlackDove
05-28-2002, 01:13 PM
Ok, this has been around on another forum that I visit for some time now (ok *cough* about 2 or more weeks *cough), and I was too lazy to transfer it here, but ok, here it goes.

The quote from the personal e-mail was quoted by the person writing the e-mail, in which there were no copyright violations that have been presented if the given e-mail was quoted on a forum, or in public. The forum is not private, and everyone has a direct access to it upon acquiring membership which is free, prooving that the content is viewable by everyone. The quoted material has been somewhat cut from the parts that are not relavant to the subject by the poster however there was no alteration from the original thought of the message. Also all personal information such as e-mail adresses of the original poster of the message and the official at Raven, have been removed by the poster of this message, ie ME :D


Originally posted by Aiee:
On the behalf of myself and a couple of danish friends, I sent an email to Mike gummelt, who is one of the two lead programmers at Raven. In my email, I mentioned several of the things me and my friends have found slightly imbalanced, as well as suggestions as to how to fix it. I just received a reply, and from the look of it, the days of people running backwards into fights in the hope of scoring a quick kill with the backstab are nearing an end.

Quoting the mail:

Subject: RE: Patch 1.03 feedback and 1.04 suggestions
Date sent: Fri, 10 May 2002 10:57:40 -0500

I was prepared for yet another ranting, raving, offensive and childish
e-mail from panicky, impatient 12 year olds, but I was very pleasantly
surprised by your e-mail. It was calm, logical, rational and well-thought
out. These are very good suggestions (I definitely want to fix the
backstabs, I thought they had been fixed, but apparently the other
programmer never got around to it, and I like the idea of more ammo per
pickup and/or faster respawns... and I've always been in favor of moving
slower when running backwards) and I have written them down on my list for a
second patch (if we do one).

Thanks again!

FEAR_IS_MY_ALLY
05-28-2002, 01:15 PM
Cool.

Thanks for the info.

BlackDove
05-28-2002, 01:16 PM
Basically.....THERE IS A LIST!!!.....;)

BlackDove
05-28-2002, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by FEAR_IS_MY_ALLY
Cool.

Thanks for the info.

Bah you beat me to it, I didn't think anyone was gonna post that soon :p

Nathan Wind
05-28-2002, 01:18 PM
aaaaahhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!! !


im done. i have little hope

Nathan Wind
05-28-2002, 01:19 PM
i need to have a long chat with some of my peers and send a letter soon!

Dark Begger
05-28-2002, 01:20 PM
Then by the looks of it 1.04 is going to destroy JK2 more...so now they're nerfing backstab...great...

next they' nerf the medium overhead finisher...

next they'll nerf heavy...
next they'll nerf medium...
next they'll nerf light....
next you'll have my mod...(read my mod suggestion if ya dont' know what i'm talkin about ;) )

maartenl
05-28-2002, 01:22 PM
hey Nathan that's funny :)

The Truthful Liar
05-28-2002, 01:25 PM
Go Sweden! :D Thanks for the info Good or Bad :)

Nathan Wind
05-28-2002, 01:30 PM
yeah, i know. looking back it reads like a bad afterschool special about writting to one's congressman.

still, it wasnt meant to be funny. i find this far from humerous

da_rat
05-28-2002, 01:31 PM
I definitely want to fix the backstabs, I thought they had been fixed, but apparently the other programmer never got around to it

From this quote alone it might mean that your gonna have to wait awhile since theyčre jacking off and dont know whos doing what

Krash
05-28-2002, 01:32 PM
I disagree with just about every suggestion for 1.04 that you made....

Instead of faster respawns... just kill yourself as your falling.
More ammo per pickup will just make everyone spam again like they did in 1.02 instead of actually having to aim like you do now.
Moving slower when running backwards? That means everyones sensativity would have to be a billion so you can always walk forward.

I hope that 1.04 doesn't gay the game because of that e-mail...

Dark Begger
05-28-2002, 01:36 PM
a team Valar here? hmmm...I believe on the TWL forums that most of you dislike the new ammo restrictions....

and as for running backwards slower..it is quite a stupid option..they just keep catering to those who cannot handle the game, instead of those with real insight to it.

Aegis
05-28-2002, 01:40 PM
Originally posted by Krash
I disagree with just about every suggestion for 1.04 that you made....

Instead of faster respawns... just kill yourself as your falling.
More ammo per pickup will just make everyone spam again like they did in 1.02 instead of actually having to aim like you do now.
Moving slower when running backwards? That means everyones sensativity would have to be a billion so you can always walk forward.

I hope that 1.04 doesn't gay the game because of that e-mail... He was talking about the weapon dumps respawning faster. Also, with increased ammo being given per dump, that wouldn't remove the need to aim, or bring spamming back, it would just make it so players don't have to rely only on fire modes that a jedi can reflect back with ease.

Also, do me a favour. Run backwards, and tell me you move as fast as when you run forwards. If you can, well then I guess the current situation is fine.

C'jais
05-28-2002, 02:36 PM
Godammit you people are brickheads!
No one is going to change your opinion on anything, since you're all so stubborn. Go back to your cave of grumpiness.

The comment about "We have insight. You have NOT" just tells us about how you cannot adapt, and is a silly excuse for slamming a very good idea. And don't give me any elitist crap, this forum is so newbie-hating that it hurts my head to read it.

Moving slower while *running* backwards IS a very good change to an already good game IMHO. How would it destroy the game? People wouldn't run like chickens from saber fights, and "saberists" would actually catch up with those people who ran from them. It would be closer to realisty without sacrificing gameplay. I can't count the games that get this thing wrong.

You guys want a bad change? Make the blocking system like 1.02. "Now we can have the pathetic jousting fights like in jk1, and it would be all fun 'n stuff!".

In this order, these are the changes i'd like to see:

1) First of all fix backstab ASAP. I dont care how, make it blockable, unturnable, remove the move altogether or whatever. Fix it, it was never meant to be like this, according to that developer letter.

2) Backtracking should also be fixed ASAP, IMHO.

3) Make it so you could actually lose your saber when throwing it, *completely* like single player.

4) up the damage on the lightsabers a tiny weeny bit. They're not lethal enough, and without backstab, fights can drag on endlessly.

5) Adopt the push/pulling of items from single player. Raven has already shown us that it could be done, there's really no reason not to do it IMO.

6) Implement the idea of manual blocking, though automatic blocking can happen if your guard is not up, but it will cost you force. This idea is commented in the feedback forum.

That is all for now, please comment and tell me what i get wrong.

Ferox
05-28-2002, 02:39 PM
heh, you guys are argueing about the new patch.. but you missed one sentance he said


(if we do one)


that might of been the last patch :P.

C'jais
05-28-2002, 02:49 PM
True.

Didn't actually see that, but i'm sure they will make another patch.
This community is so hostile that they must be getting death threats on a daily basis, and someday they will give in to all the people sending mails for improvement (and improvement IS needed!)...

Really, i think they'll make another patch...
Well, i'm quite sure anyway....
Raven, don't give up on us guys!!!

I'll ******* kill you if you dont, you ******* **** *****!!!!!!

(The last part was a sarcastic parody, for the slow of mind.)

BlackDove
05-28-2002, 02:56 PM
Uhm, at least they have a list...

Nathan Wind
05-28-2002, 03:03 PM
ugh, and quite a list at that

Dark Begger
05-28-2002, 03:11 PM
Hmm...quite amusing there, your nice long message of what YOU want to see...you are exactly right though, everything is in YOUR opinion. Exactly why does backstab need fixing? Is it that you cannot handle it, so you want Raven to fix it for you? ahh I see...

And as for blocking, blocking is good in 1.03, but damage is bad, it should be raised ...to the point of 1.02. Battles will be longer, less hits will be accounted for, but there still is that sense of danger when approaching an enemy.

oh and I see, you have real insight, so YOU know what is a bad change and what is a good change and WE do not..okay, if you say so.

As for the rest of your suggestions they are valid and I agree with them.

One thing is certain though, I have adapted to the changes, but what I am angry about is how the people who complained about DFA/heavy stance in 1.02, are back again to complain about backstab. there is no satisfying them, yet Raven continues to attempt to.

Oh, and have we changed your opinion? If we are stubborn, than so are you. I have not seen you change your opinion about liking 1.03, why? because YOU think there was no good reason to change your opinion. Well we are on the same boat, because I have not had one good reason to change my opinion on the patch or on JK2.

Therefore if we are brickheads, so are you. THank you, have a good day.

Agen
05-28-2002, 03:15 PM
Then by the looks of it 1.04 is going to destroy JK2 more...so now they're nerfing backstab...great...

Er.... yes, that is great actually.
:cool:

BlackDove
05-28-2002, 03:18 PM
No more idiot people trying to backstab...can't wait till that happenes. Not because I can't handle it. I am one of the worst backstabbers there are, however it's really not fair to the people who can't do it.

Dark Begger
05-28-2002, 03:23 PM
well, then let's just all make it fair to the people who can't do it..

heavy stance - Can't use it well? awww... let's take it out for those who can't!

Medium over head finisher - some people diefrom it? aww..let's take that out too..

Medium stance? - since heavy is gone and this is the strongest awww, new players can't use it well..that's gone too...

...well you got my point...

If we constantly take out things in order to make it 'fair' for those who cannot do the moves or cannot counter it (but there is a counter), a new 'move' will appear that will have an advantage over others and that will be abused and taken out....Raven started with putting out a platter of a variety of different moves...and one by one...because some people cannot do them or cannot handle them...they are being taken away. There is no end, so why not keep variety in the game and not take this any further?

Dark Begger
05-28-2002, 03:34 PM
Oh hey Cjais, you said this yourself, how long did you play 1.02? how long? ohh yeah...3-4 days..I see. So you're making assumptions on it for your 3-4 days of play? I see..I played 1.02 for how long? 2 months....and we ahve both been playing 1.03 for how long? 2-3 weeks...hmmm...so I see..this is what I mean when I say insight...do you know anything in detail about 1.02? no. how can you make comments on it?

I've played 1.02, and 1.03, and can play them both. I dislike 1.03, but have adapted and still play it, just not with as much passion as I had for 1.02.

When you commented on why we have more insight, you just answered yoru own question on another thread. We have somethign to compare it to, while all you have to compare to 1.03 is the outer shell of 1.02.

SithMaster2003
05-28-2002, 07:34 PM
I honestly find this subject rather funny.

Let's see, not long after the game came out, we had people complaining about the DFA move and that grip and lightening were too powerful (and a long list of other stuff).

So, what did Raven do? They made a patch that nerfed grip and lightening and basically eliminated DFA's lethalness. Just what everybody wanted (well, almost everybody).

OK. So, here we sit again complaining about light stance backstab and that grip was nerfed too much (and another long list).

Anyone see a pattern forming here???

Seems like no matter what, people are gonna nitpick the hell out of this game until it is customized individually for each person.

So you all really think backstab is that big of a problem??? Whatever floats your LITTLE boat. IMHO, I think they ought to send DFA and backstab back to v1.02. Why? Because, even though people spammed the hell out of them then, they were still beatable. The only big gripe I had about DFA was the damage radius (i know, there is another word for it). If you were dueling with someone using DFA in v1.02, and you were standing behind him, then you ended up paying for it. THAT's why it was spammed.

Now we have @$$-fighters who run backwards trying to do backstab. And if Raven nerfs that, then someone will find another move to spam. And the cycle will keep on going. Leave the moves alone, the idiots that spam them are beatable, you just have to know how. Let them spam the hell out of the move, there is always a counter move/force.

In v1.02 I could easily beat DFA spammers with a little practice. With a little more practice I have found ways to beat backstab spammers. So, instead of patching it everytime someone whines, just let them spam until they learn better.

BTW, has anyone else noticed some people spamming heavy stance backsweep (or medium, whichever one it is)? My one friend likes to spam it every now and then, and usually racks up the kills from it. If there are 2 or 3 people behind him, they all die. Oh well.

Now go back to your b!tch!n'!

G0G0GadgetForce
05-28-2002, 08:02 PM
This better not be the last patch! People are still buying this game daily. You would think it would continue to be supported and even expansion packs would be released in the future.

Sounds like Raven is pulling the same crap Valve did with Counterstrike.

If you are not going to support this game, release the sp and the mp SDK so we can support it ourselves!

Rogue74
05-28-2002, 08:59 PM
I'm glad they are working on some of the problems!

I don't think that backstab/backsweep is a problem as a move (more the players) but there needs to be a penalty to the player performing the pull and backstab/sweep. Maybe make it so that if a person pulls than performs a backstab/sweep then it will totally run out their Force meter. You can usually get away if you're prepared for it, so that would give the pullers something to think about, and the pullee a way to retaliate. Usually the people doing those moves aren't the brightest or most skilled of players, so once their trick has puffed out they would get it. Just an idea.

Chang Wufei
05-28-2002, 09:03 PM
I completely agree with the first 5, but not sure about the last one:

1) First of all fix backstab ASAP. I dont care how, make it blockable, unturnable, remove the move altogether or whatever. Fix it, it was never meant to be like this, according to that developer letter.

2) Backtracking should also be fixed ASAP, IMHO.

3) Make it so you could actually lose your saber when throwing it, *completely* like single player.

4) up the damage on the lightsabers a tiny weeny bit. They're not lethal enough, and without backstab, fights can drag on endlessly.

5) Adopt the push/pulling of items from single player. Raven has already shown us that it could be done, there's really no reason not to do it IMO.

6) Implement the idea of manual blocking, though automatic blocking can happen if your guard is not up, but it will cost you force. This idea is commented in the feedback forum.


Well said.

Nill the Mean
05-28-2002, 11:03 PM
I don't really care about the backtracking... it might be cool if they change it. The most important issues are still:

1. Too much blocking. The radius should be smaller and the collsion needs tweaking. So now and then I see my saber bouncing off people who are draining or even when I hit them in the back. I have seen people take it in the gut and suddenly block. I'm seeing this happen with a ping of 30-40 so it isn't lag.
The same blocking you have now but then in a 90 degree arc, with the collision detection only functioning within this arc. You could keep the effectiveness this way yet make it more believable. Collision feels really bugged now.

2. More damage. If the blocking gets toned down, this might not be needed. But to make sure, I think they should up the damage on all normal attacks. Sometimes I now see someone get cut clean across the mid-section in medium and only lose about 30 hp. I would say you should lose at least 50 for something like that.

3. The backstab... tweak it a bit. Make attacking things in front of you more rewarding than backstabbing. Then who'll ever want to spam it again?

4. Remove damage noise for anything less than 10 hp. Good way to know if you landed a hit or not.

5. Add the fists!!!

Havoc Stryphe
05-29-2002, 05:16 PM
Artifex and others are claiming that this new patch 1.03 takes away from the competitive players and ruins the game for them. I ask you, this is a computer GAME right, not an olympic sport?

WEBSTER'S Defines Game as:

game (gâm), -n 1.an amusement or pastime 2. the apparatus employed in playing any of certain games 3. a contest for amusement in the form of a trial of chance, skill, or endurance, according to set rules 4. a single contest at play, or a definite portion of play 5. the number of points required to win a game 6.a particular manner or style of playing a game 7. a proceeding carried on like a game 8. a trick; strategy 9. fun; sport of any kind 10 wild animals, including birds and fishes, such as are hunted or taken for food or profit

etc... the rest of the definitions have to do with the wild animal and hunting themes

the ongoing theme here is fun and/or amusement. You purchased a game just as everyone else here did. By definition, we expect to have fun with this game. Instead you would rather define your existence with the statistics you acquire playing this game. You have lost site of what it is this product was designed for... fun.

If you believe that it is only fun to acquire points/frags/wins, then you will lead a most disappointing lifetime. You can't always win, and if you base your happiness off winning, then you will find yourself amongst some serious bouts of depression within your lifetime. You do realize you could still win, with every aspect of this game nerfed, but it would take a little (or a lot) longer?That is unacceptable to you. You must acquire points/frags/wins as fast as possible and accumulate enough to keep your "cyber status" of uber-coolness. Why is this? Is it because your reality is out of your control and not as you'd like it, so you find something that you CAN control and slowly base your happiness on that reality, and if someone came along and changed things to where your amount of control waivers or even diminishes you become indignant and/or aggressive to the point of elitism?

We as a gaming community want to have fun, of course this is why Raven & Lucasarts released Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast as just that: a game. Perhaps if it was released as a Job, career, utility, weapon, tool etc. you could justify the amout of complaining and vocalized bashing you have spewn forth, and rightly so. THose devices are meant for more serious and exact apllications. However, games are meant for fun. Sometime I wonder if you guys can even say that word without twitching and/or falling to the floor convulsing madly.

I, for one and as many others have mentioned, can have fun when being struck down by a player in all their ass-fighting glory. I can get a kick out teh many ways I've died. I have fun learning from my mistakes and those of others. But I sense that you base your existance on your ability to amass large scores, maybe even your self worth, therefor stripping the game of it's inherent "fun factor". It becomes nothing more than war waged on each other. The kind of war that to the winners goes the spoils of status. It becomes a mental drain, an obcession to prove yourself to those noobies or unknowingly wander into your self-proclaimed crusade and to continue your dominance over those you've sent packing before.

Why else wuld you need "instant" kills, If not to acquire large amounts of score as quickly as possible? You simply ignore the fun aspect and begin your crusade to control that which has replaced the reality which you can't control, all the while ruining it for those who have come to experience fun with a game that delivers 3D immersion and a Star Wars atmosphere.

Shame on you for ruining the community, and discouraging noobies from darkiening our doorway! Shame on you for attempting to single-handedly muddy a software developing companies good name by rash and judgemental verbal bashings! But most of all, I feel sorry for you that you would rob yourself of the experience of true fun. It is you who will go through life strangely imcomplete and lacking true happiness. You will try to live your happiness through the lives of your children, all the while pushing them into the viscious cycle you yourself could not escape. If you can get this worked up over a game, just imagine what how you'll deal with the real delimmas you'll undoubtedly face sometime in your lives. Jobs/careers, layoffs, breakups, deaths, mortgages etc...

You should evauluate your lives and your definition therein of "fun", because that's what this game is all about, wether it be version 1.03 or 9.64, so sit back relax and enjoy the simple things in life, like getting lucky and accidentally killing an opponent online with a move you never intended to make! ;)

Havoc Stryphe
05-29-2002, 05:35 PM
Artifex and others are claiming that this new patch 1.03 takes away from the competitive players and ruins the game for them. I ask you, this is a computer GAME right, not an olympic sport?

WEBSTER'S Defines Game as:

game (gâm), -n 1.an amusement or pastime 2. the apparatus employed in playing any of certain games 3. a contest for amusement in the form of a trial of chance, skill, or endurance, according to set rules 4. a single contest at play, or a definite portion of play 5. the number of points required to win a game 6.a particular manner or style of playing a game 7. a proceeding carried on like a game 8. a trick; strategy 9. fun; sport of any kind 10 wild animals, including birds and fishes, such as are hunted or taken for food or profit

etc... the rest of the definitions have to do with the wild animal and hunting themes

the ongoing theme here is fun and/or amusement. You purchased a game just as everyone else here did. By definition, we expect to have fun with this game. Instead you would rather define your existence with the statistics you acquire playing this game. You have lost site of what it is this product was designed for... fun.

If you believe that it is only fun to acquire points/frags/wins, then you will lead a most disappointing lifetime. You can't always win, and if you base your happiness off winning, then you will find yourself amongst some serious bouts of depression within your lifetime. You do realize you could still win, with every aspect of this game nerfed, but it would take a little (or a lot) longer?That is unacceptable to you. You must acquire points/frags/wins as fast as possible and accumulate enough to keep your "cyber status" of uber-coolness. Why is this? Is it because your reality is out of your control and not as you'd like it, so you find something that you CAN control and slowly base your happiness on that reality, and if someone came along and changed things to where your amount of control waivers or even diminishes you become indignant and/or aggressive to the point of elitism?

We as a gaming community want to have fun, of course this is why Raven & Lucasarts released Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast as just that: a game. Perhaps if it was released as a Job, career, utility, weapon, tool etc. you could justify the amout of complaining and vocalized bashing you have spewn forth, and rightly so. THose devices are meant for more serious and exact apllications. However, games are meant for fun. Sometime I wonder if you guys can even say that word without twitching and/or falling to the floor convulsing madly.

I, for one and as many others have mentioned, can have fun when being struck down by a player in all their ass-fighting glory. I can get a kick out teh many ways I've died. I have fun learning from my mistakes and those of others. But I sense that you base your existance on your ability to amass large scores, maybe even your self worth, therefor stripping the game of it's inherent "fun factor". It becomes nothing more than war waged on each other. The kind of war that to the winners goes the spoils of status. It becomes a mental drain, an obcession to prove yourself to those noobies or unknowingly wander into your self-proclaimed crusade and to continue your dominance over those you've sent packing before.

Why else wuld you need "instant" kills, If not to acquire large amounts of score as quickly as possible? You simply ignore the fun aspect and begin your crusade to control that which has replaced the reality which you can't control, all the while ruining it for those who have come to experience fun with a game that delivers 3D immersion and a Star Wars atmosphere.

Shame on you for ruining the community, and discouraging noobies from darkiening our doorway! Shame on you for attempting to single-handedly muddy a software developing companies good name by rash and judgemental verbal bashings! But most of all, I feel sorry for you that you would rob yourself of the experience of true fun. It is you who will go through life strangely imcomplete and lacking true happiness. You will try to live your happiness through the lives of your children, all the while pushing them into the viscious cycle you yourself could not escape. If you can get this worked up over a game, just imagine what how you'll deal with the real delimmas you'll undoubtedly face sometime in your lives. Jobs/careers, layoffs, breakups, deaths, mortgages etc...

You should evauluate your lives and your definition therein of "fun", because that's what this game is all about, wether it be version 1.03 or 9.64, so sit back relax and enjoy the simple things in life, like getting lucky and accidentally killing an opponent online with a move you never intended to make! ;)

Spider AL
05-30-2002, 02:59 PM
You posted it twice, and it made twice as little sense.

Tennis is a game, it's also a sport.

Quake is a game, it's also a sport.

Soccer is a game, it's also a sport.

A sport for MONEY. Cash prizes are common to all three above. The odd one out? Quake. It's a computer game. But it's also a competitive sport with hefty prize money in certain tournaments. I love it when people drag out a dictionary definition for nothing.

BlackDove
05-30-2002, 03:48 PM
lol, I love that too

C'jais
05-30-2002, 04:26 PM
Dark begger, stop shadowboxing and putting arguments in my mouth and in everyone's else.

I ALDREADY stated why i don't like the backstab, and i think i must've stated it at least 10 times now. I also proposed several solutions to it. Don't you think something is wrong with it? If backstab was removed what would then be spammed? I don't know, nor care, but i'd rather see a frontal attack be spammed than a backwards. And i'd rather see someone's face than his butt (though that rodian butt is quite cute IMO).

Also, I realize that you haven't read all of my posts, but (surprisingly) my opinion on 1.03 has changed. And it wasn't because I played 1.03 more, but rather because of the fine articulate people in here. But you, dark begger, haven't changed my opinion on 1.03, because you have a very hostile way of "argueing". Calm down for heavens sake.

Yes, I haven't played much 1.02, but i knew the moment that i started my first botmatch that this was just like jk1. Not boring in itself, but it could be so much more, if you catch my meaning. Raven is trying hard to make it better, but they need help. Posting in these forums in a polite, thoughtful manner helps them. But screaming aloud and cursing does not.

And of cause it's my OPINION. The way you're describing it, it sounds like i'm a serial killer or that the way i post somehow limits your god-given right to speak freely.

Have a good day, i just passed a test in school with flying colors.

Dark Begger
05-30-2002, 04:43 PM
"Godammit you people are brickheads! "

-posted by our very own cjais...


You were telling me to be calm, and argue in an 'articulate' manner. I would advise you to take the time to figure this out YOURSELF, before you are so quick to judge me.


I played JK1, and JK2 1.02 was COMPLETELY different than JK1...you must have gone online into some server with BGJ duel map running and didn't actually watch the fights...I don't know..but IMO, JK2 1.02 was nothing like JK1...

ok, well here's some things YOU said to me:

1)"because you have a very hostile way of "argueing". Calm down for heavens sake. "

2)"

Posting in these forums in a polite, thoughtful manner helps them. But screaming aloud and cursing does not. "

Now here's what you said to me in ANOTHER post:

1) "Godammit you people are brickheads!
No one is going to change your opinion on anything, since you're all so stubborn. Go back to your cave of grumpiness.

The comment about "We have insight. You have NOT" just tells us about how you cannot adapt, and is a silly excuse for slamming a very good idea. And don't give me any elitist crap, this forum is so newbie-hating that it hurts my head to read it. "


Now cjais, my turn to give you some advice, calm down for heavens sake, you should be posting in these forums in a polite, thoughtful manner. Screaming aloud and cursing does not help.

Havoc Stryphe
05-30-2002, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Spider AL
You posted it twice, and it made twice as little sense.

Haha, that's funny, well done! Did you think that one up all by yourself? OK, are we done being immature 10 yr olds? Forgive me if you really are 10, it's really hard to tell simply by your posts. My computer gliched and I ended up double posting, sorry I messed up your perfect forum experience, maybe we should scream for a patch for the forums that helps make it impossible to double post, that seems more your speed!



Tennis is a game, it's also a sport.

Quake is a game, it's also a sport.

Soccer is a game, it's also a sport.

A sport for MONEY. Cash prizes are common to all three above. The odd one out? Quake. It's a computer game. But it's also a competitive sport with hefty prize money in certain tournaments. I love it when people drag out a dictionary definition for nothing.


Okay, so you managed to redirect focus to some of our other short-comings as a society to make the first half of my post seem less damaging and even less pertinent. what about the second half, the actual meat-and-potatoes? You know the real question as to what's the driving force behind your costant droning of inhumanities committed against you by Raven and other general shortcomings of the new patch.

Why is it SO important to you to retain some kind of one swing kills or "fast frags"? How does this simple variable equate fun in your minds? Where does this make or break a game? Please be so kind as to share with the rest of us the reasoning behind your perverted need to acquire wins So fast and doing so without requiring much skill!

Oh, and by the way, if money is what makes your world spin 'round, and puts a smile on your face, then that answers some of my questions. And all I can say, if that is the case, is good luck, let me know what it is like to have happiness within arms reach but never getting there and never figuring out why!

C'jais
05-30-2002, 04:52 PM
Hehe, you got me there begger...

Yes, i called you a brickhead, but I won't delve any deeper into what you've called other people.

I contradicted myself there, and I'm sorry.... I guess you're not.

Please find some other posts where i lost my temper, and please adress my other points.

I'm not your personal punching bag for christs sake.

Dark Begger
05-30-2002, 05:16 PM
Tennis is a game, it's also a sport.

Quake is a game, it's also a sport.

Soccer is a game, it's also a sport.

A sport for MONEY. Cash prizes are common to all three above. The odd one out? Quake. It's a computer game. But it's also a competitive sport with hefty prize money in certain tournaments. I love it when people drag out a dictionary definition for nothing. --------------------------------------

What he's saying is that those things are all games, and many people take them seriously and have careers in them. There is nothing wrong with taking a game seriously, if you think there is, then go find another society to live in where people don't..I'm sure Africa has some places..although they love soccer also...so guess not.


And as for why is it important to have 1 hit kills?

Well let me put it this way, next time, take a knife, and put it through your body into your left chest...all the way in. Let's see if you live.

Ok ok...I understand how some people want fun over realism, but the way I brand fun, and I'm sure others too..is when you play the game, you think that at any moment you could be sliced down by a light saber and die. if the 1 hit kills were taken out...then that sense of danger is gone. I am not saying 1 hit kills should dominate the game, but should be present to insert a sense of caution to the players during a duel. The 'I may die on the next hit' thrill of setting up your next attack is great, and inevitably 'fun'.

As to yoru comment of not requiring much skill, I bet you that a new found 1 hit kill user (new assfighter..) won't do nearly as well as a skilled backstab user (usually not ass fighters..but do a last minute turn and slice kind of deal..). The move requires skill, and also requires skill to dodge it. if you are telling me you are dying to no skill 1 hit users, then obviously your skill level is not really as high as you believe it is?

Dark Begger
05-30-2002, 05:19 PM
I usually try not to make personal attacks at any one person, but sometimes I just lose my temper when someone attacks me, and that's why I attack back. The post where I responded with the snide remark about his mother was out of line, but I don't understand how his post helped in anyway. He was just trying to attack me. I guess I over defend myself at times, which I am sorry, but somtimes it can't be helped.

But I still keep my stance on 1.02 and 1.03. lol

Robbiesan
05-30-2002, 05:21 PM
lol

C'jais
05-30-2002, 05:39 PM
Good then begger,

I am sorry, and you are sorry.... we are both sorry.
I guess....

Talking about this patch is really starting to feel like beating a dead horse for me....

Dark Begger
05-30-2002, 05:43 PM
that's true...but it seems, if we want (we as in pro 1.02) changes in our favor, we have to complain like the rest so that 1.04 will turn out in ah appy medium between 1.02 and 1.03.

Awol
05-30-2002, 05:44 PM
quick way to solve everyone problems with v1.03 leave it as it is but make all the specials currently 2 per stance use force power. The backstabbers will still have there one hit kills but they can't spam it all the time. Lets face it JK2 is a fighting game (duel servers that is) follow what they do in fighting games all specials have use a power bar that needs to be charged, well since JK2 doesn't have a power bar use the force bar.

Awol

My $0.02 take it or leave it doesn't matter to me I'm having fun playing this game.

Dark Begger
05-30-2002, 05:50 PM
that is an interesting idea, but the idea of using force to swing your saber? Just doesn't sit well with me when it comes to starwars...

C'jais
05-30-2002, 06:16 PM
So true begger,

And everyone is in their good right to complain, no doubt there, but this topic in all of its entirety is just starting to wear on me.

Tired about talking about the same thing, you could say.

Awol, you idea is good. BTW, begger, what he meant was that only the specials use force (lunge and so on i take it). But i also agree with begger that moves shouldn't cost force in themselves, it's just that they need a way to be less spammed. Whatever that way is. It might feel a little forced if you so blatantly restrained people's choices. I don't know about this really, but this idea has been mentioned recently in the feedback forum i think.

Dark Begger
05-30-2002, 06:27 PM
well, it is difficult to find a way to have it less spammed. I don't think it is actually a problem in nf servers, as the n00b assfighters don't do too well in nf...

when it comse to a ff server, the main problem is pull-special. I guess the only way to stop this is to have pull not knock you down. I know I know..knocking down is integral, but I think, if they changed kick back to 1 button tap, and kept pull, the 'making fall down' effect can still be pulled off...*with the kcik obviously.

Now, with that, I remember the kick pushing the player backwards, slightly further, so you would have to go up close to get some shots in.

So, if this was done, then after the person was kicked down, when the kicker tries to run forward and do 180 degrees back specials, there is more time for the kicked to get up and away.. but if the kicker decided to run up and swing..they could probably get 1 hit off..not a special, but a clean hit. what do you think?

Awol
05-30-2002, 06:52 PM
Don't think that swing a saber uses force power than the move needs it to work, Take for example the yellow flip slash special I know very few people could flip like that but think what it involves to jump flip and swing a sword like that, force is used for that move for sure. The backstab could be agrued that the force does the seeing for the blade blah blah blah. normal swings would still be normal no force or anything. Also another idea for the pull/knockdown - backstab would be let the player decide when to stand up as it is now it automatic with a chance on making a little faster (tho it never seems to work for me) take the automatic stand out that way people who are knockdown could wait until the backstaber is finished and then stand.

Awol

C'jais
05-30-2002, 06:54 PM
Yup that'd work i think. Granted, I haven't seen much pull/backstabbing when i play, but it's really horrific to look at...

I don't mind the kick thing, i hardly ever use it, only if someone decides to spam it and i feel like showing that i can play along just as bad... so to speak.

Good workout around the problem.

Kurgan
05-30-2002, 10:41 PM
I hate to get involved with another (IMHO) pointless argument (since the devs will do what they want, not what "whiners" want, as the old saying goes), but here's one point I had to make:

Also, do me a favour. Run backwards, and tell me you move as fast as when you run forwards. If you can, well then I guess the current situation is fine.

This is completely irrelevant. Why? Well first off, it's a game, and games are full of unrealistic, impossible things and situations. Why? Because realism doesn't always equal fun. Most games are wildly unrealistic. Multiple lives, guns that don't break down and need to be cleaned, people who run and jump around and don't get tired, or take major damage and still function as if they just got out of the health spa or something, etc. Multiplayer even more so.. why are these people fighting to the death? Why not use diplomatic means.. why not call in for backup, why not figure a way to escape from that battle arena and find food??

So you see, it really doesn't matter at all if YOU (who aren't even a Jedi or world-class commando like Han Solo or Kyle Katarn) can't do something, but in the game you can. Games are about fantasy. In games you can do things that are impossible (or would land you in jail or a mental institution) in real life. That's why we have games, to indulge these fantasies safely and have fun, while we compete in games of skill and chance. It's not about having the most realistic simulation of real life possible (at least not when it comes to Star Wars games or first person shooters).

Heck, even the so-called "realistic" games like Rainbow 6 are wildly unrealistic when you get down to it. So who cares? If it's fun and balanced, that's all I care about. If they can do that AND make it look cool, all the better.

Chastan
05-31-2002, 05:42 AM
Very good point! We play games to have fun... real life is realistic... it isn't always fun... I think you know what I'm saying :D

Vestril
05-31-2002, 06:35 AM
since the devs will do what they want, not what "whiners" want, as the old saying goes

I think the release of 1.03 invalidated that statement, at least when it comes to Jedi Knight.

Beyond that, good point about realism--how realistic is a Star Wars game anyway?...:p

The_Wounded
05-31-2002, 06:37 AM
lol in the original mail they where talkin about 12 year old kids and most of u react like 12 year old kids. :rolleyes:

Razage
05-31-2002, 07:13 AM
The flames keep me warm =)

Anyways, I don't want instant kills. What I do want is to have fun. Right now I can't have fun in this GAME (I put that in bold because so many are pointing this out over and over and over again. I know it's a game! Yeah, I tried looking in the 'Anti Virus' section of Future shop too, but eventually I found it in the games section.) Why can't I have fun? Not because of so-called 'assfighting' but because of the people that do it. I go into a server and play normally, get some good duels in and then suddenly I see this backstabber. He thinks he's pretty hot ****. Since I detest people that think they're so damn good because they can exploit, I decide to show him that he's not the only one that's able to do that. I single him out and do pull-backstab combo on him over and over and over. Sometimes I even variate and do pull-backswing! Some concede that maybe they need to try something else. Some will just go bazerk and start calling me a hacker and garbage. Some are particularly funny and attempt to get me kicked off the server for some unknown reason. I found it amusing to pick on backstabbers at first, but it gets old. Especially once they begin their 'back up plan' where they spam chat with a barage of 'Stop hacking! You suck! blah blah blah." I'd rather they just slapped in a server option to disable special moves. That's just me though.

Oh, and don't flame this post or you'll get it back 10 times worse. Use a brain cell (I heard some folks even have two or more of these!) and if you disagree use actual facts and arguments. Thanks and have a nice day =)

Master Niko
05-31-2002, 07:57 AM
Since i lag in the 700s i dont play the "actual MP " i play agaionst the bots so i dont really see them @ss-fighting me :) . But a way to make the backstabs blockable would be that if a player is not attacking (guard up) the backstab is parried knocking the saber from his hands IMHO this would both look sweet and force more strategy and timing into the backstab . Oh BTW keep its damage the same .
No flaming me saying i have no exp with mp i can play it if i can find a good dsl line to piggy back on :)

Silent_Thunder
05-31-2002, 07:59 AM
It's been awhile since I posted on the boards, yet I don't remember them to be this hostile before...

Anyways, I agree with the majority of people that say the current form of backstabbing/backsweeping is an unblalancing move.

So... IMO what I think needs to be delt with are these things:

Leave the backstabbing(s) in the game, but decrease their damage by atleast 65% . Also make them blockable. It just doesn't make sense that the most powerful move would be coming from someone with his back turned. I don't mean to say that it's "unrealistic" or what... This is purely based off of a gameplay stand point.. and what I consider a waste of a possibly great lightsaber system if it wasn't for a few major flaws.

Give an option to remove "Special" saber attacks on the server (someone above game this idea, and I think it's a good one). Personally I think ALL of the special saber attacks are too powerful for how easy they are to pull off.

Make the heavy swings alittle more blockable. This isn't because I can't handle defending against those swings, but because the best defense is to run when someone is swning heavy. This causes heavy fights to become too much of a hit in run fight I think. When it should be more close combat.

Remove the "flying lungers". This isn't all that big of a deal, but I would imagine Raven would like to remove all obvious bugs such as that. Incase you don't know what I mean: try falling off a high cliff in the game while doing the forward (light stance) lung, and hold. You'll float all the way down without taking damage.

Decrease running backwards speed... Again, I'm not saying it's unrealist, or what not, I know it's just a game. I simply think that it would be cooler for people to actually run away when their in trouble, instead of watching their opponent the whole time.

Decrease running speed slightly as health decreases... I really doubt this would be implemented... but I think it would be nice if it was. This would be to prevent people from running to get health whenever they get hurt in NF FFA saber games. That way the rightful winner should be able to catch up.

Anyways; those are just my opinions of what should be added in the next patch, and I respect everyone elses opinion just as much as my own. I'm curious to see what gets added in the next patch (assuming there is one).

The_Wounded
05-31-2002, 09:21 AM
U guys should write a book it's way to big to read everything.

Vader10
05-31-2002, 09:45 AM
boohoo! What a bunch of whiners. You know who I am talking about.

My 2 cents worth.

Anyone who says slowing down running backwards is a bad thing is nothing but a newbie backstabbing spamming lamer.

People bitching about Raven nerfing something else for their own benefit DO NOT have a clue about what is going on. Go back through the old forum posts and see that 90% of what they did was requested, no BITCHED about, in the 1.02 build. The other 10% came from rebalancing somethings and bugs/omissions that always creap in patches.

Dark Begger
05-31-2002, 01:13 PM
actually, no, I don't agree with moving slower while goign backwards, you want to know why?

I am a saber user, I barely play guns, but I KNOW for a fact that making this change will SCREW over the gunners in CTF. How will it be possible for a gunner to defend against another gunner who is running at him? or the flag carrier trying to defend himself from attacks from behind? This will competely slow down the CTF game, and MANY and I mean near ALL the gunners won't be happy about it. We can't make that change...

And please don't say "who cares about gunners", or , "this game is FOR the lightsabers, if they want guns go to quake". that's not the point. Guns are in the game, and thats how it is, so you can't tell Raven to completely destroy that aspect of the game just to fix a little problem with assfighters. all they need to do is up damage on sabers and assfighters are no more..or atleast less than now. And this alternative doesn't screw over others in the game.

BlackDove
05-31-2002, 01:31 PM
Guns are in the game, but I didn't buy the game because of the guns. You wan't guns, go play Counterstrike or SoF2...

Dark Begger
05-31-2002, 01:36 PM
ugh..I know I know...you're just saying that for the sake of arguement aren't you? heheheh...

you may not have bought the game for guns, but like you said, guns are there, and some people had bought the game..(for guns)...You can't ruin a HUGE part of the game (CTF) just so that it fixes a rather SMALL problem in the sabering universe....

Although the uniqueness of this game comes from the lightsabers, Raven is more interested in the majority of the general JK2 community, not the sabering community. Therefore gunners have a say.

DarkMadMax
05-31-2002, 02:02 PM
I think most ppl just don't understand what are they asking for . The worst thing raven can do is nerfing . They asked to nerf force ,saber,DFA before 1.03 .And they got it . All nerfed .Ppl can now live longer but there was moves that wasn't nerfed much - kick ,backstab ,medium finisher . Now they ask to nerf them as well.... What u will have left? Duels lasting longer ?- they already
last beyond any rational reasons.

All the problems ppl have with backstab,kicks (put any effective move here ) is because the saber itself is now almost useless. They nerfed saber damage - now u can take 5 hits and still be alive .While trying to bakstab u can take 1 ,2,3,4 hits and still trying .No wonder ppl spam it .Why ppl didnt do it in 1.02? Because u got 1,2 with medium ,some saber touch - and u were dead . Same was with dfa - 1,2,3 - oops spammer's health on zero .

Kicks were dangerous - for 20 possible damage u could easily get 60 urself . So moves were used with care. Spammers didnt live long enough to get more than 2 points in duels.

Force duels actually involved some moves besides push/pull/backstab .Saber played a major role . Now saber in force duels is useless except for backstab .Any other move (kick,throw) is more reliable and does almost same amount of damage than almost impossible to connect saber swings.

So why all u ask for more nerfing? Whats the point? Sabers should be deadly ,they shouldnt be equivalents of glowing broomsticks .

Havoc Stryphe
05-31-2002, 02:35 PM
Okay, let me clarify something here:

Here's the irony behind my posts: I agree with you guys, well... to an extent. I think something needs to be done, and nerfing the backswing is not the answer.

But, here's the catch, There needs to be a hybrid between 1.02 and 1.03. Because, I feel the added len's flares are a nice touch, the support for dismemberment in MP is great, the hitboxes are much better, DFA not being able to turn is wonderful etc. But the lessening of the general saber damage was probably off-base and perhaps too much adjusting of the Force powers.

Here's the difference betwen you and me: I'm not going to start verbally bashing Raven or Lucasarts over the ordeal, nor am I going to claim in all my egocentric elitism that I know what's best, or I'm retiring from the game after 2 months. I mean come on, it's a game your retiring? I think some of us have to reprioritize our lives. We have to be rational here, what each of us think is simply an opinion, and maybe others like what we dislike, that does not make them wrong or conversly, it does not automatically make us right. We must be willing to accept that we are not, infact, infallible nor are we Gods that must be reckoned with. We are simply Gamers who have ideas on how to make the gaming community better. Let's make them known in a constructive and respectful manner, and perhaps Raven would be more willing to listen. After all, let's not bite the hand that feeds us, metaphorically speaking. Fair enough?

First of all, screaming "Raven sucks!" or "Thanks Raven for ruining the game!" isn't going to make things better. It's all about the golden rule, If I were Raven, I'd tend to ignore you after reading any of the aforementioned verbal tirades. Let's try to approach this from a civil and intelligent angle, shall we? To be fair, some of you have constructively pointed out flaws or inconsistencies in the new patch, and made them known to the rest of the communtiy with an air of dignity and self-control. Believe it or not, these are the ones that will be listened too.

Before you go and say "Well, during 1.02 the whiners and bashers is who Raven listened to last time!", I will say this, I know that, and Raven is probably regretting that as we speak, and probably won't make that mistake again. They are probably sick of hearing them being called ignorant, incompetant, mindless etc... At this point in the game, it's most likely safe to assume that they will listen to intelligently constructed debates, rebuttals and suggestions.

I'm trying to make you understand that I actually agree with you, or at least mostly, but I feel that you guys are hurting the cause and/or the community by the way you have approached your problems. And of course, I certainly don't agree with your approach to the game either, I mean, if you can't have fun with the game when you losing as well as winning, than you've missed the point. Life is too short to worry about winning, have fun with what you've got and then, and only then, you'll be the true winner.

Dark Begger
05-31-2002, 03:23 PM
hmm..well good points havoc. anyways...
the thing is, the world is one big competition now, competition is shown everywhere. In our sports, in our businesses, in our streets, etc..etc..

I for one am quite competitive, and love to win. If I lose, I do not feel particularly well about myself, and try my best to make myself better so I will win next time. My priority is to succeed and be well off in life, and to do that, I will need to be competitive and win. If I had 'lost' in getting into university, I would have lost my goal in life (well a good part of it...). To enjoy life to it's fullest one has to win in life. That's how I see it. I know people will say it's not all about winning...but to me..it is. lol..I lead a pathetic life, I know, someone else already stated that in another post. But I am now 19 years old with a summer job making around 15 thousand for 3 and a half months of work...so I don't think I'm doing too shabby in my life. I feel I'm on the right track for me.

Havoc Stryphe
05-31-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by Dark Begger
the thing is, the world is one big competition now, competition is shown everywhere. In our sports, in our businesses, in our streets, etc..etc..

Yeah, I know... it's a shame really, people don't take the time to enjoy the majority of what's around them because they are to cought up in the scores/money/status etc of winning. Wether it's "winning" at their careers, athletic events, or schooling etc. I believe that the competitiveness that our society is overly displaying in recent genrerations is what will lead us to collapse of our society as we know it. Too much emphasis is taken off family, friendship, relaxation, and good 'ol fun and instead is placed on winning, scoring, making money and gaining power and/or social status.

There's so much that can be satisfying and enjoyable in the simple things. In just taking a step back, taking a deep breath and just "living" by actually taking a good look at the wonderful world around you. Friendship, family, nature, warm sunshine on your face, the ocean waves tumbling onto the sandy shore, a hot dog at the ball park, picnics on lazy summer afternoons, long walks with friends, playing bloody murder until midnight on a summer's eve. A new sparkling crisp snow on the tree branches, driving with the windows/top down, a puppy dog's face complete with floppy ears, late night talsk over the phone with your friend, a gentle spring rain and the scent of new life in the air, swimming in a cool pool, a juicy steak dinner, your favorite musical artist in concert, building a snow man and so much more can be so fullfilling and wonderful without the need for competition and the inevitable score.

The world has literlly forgotten the "good" things in life that came from caring for one another and looking for the good in the bad. Instead of learning from our mistakes, we obsess about them, becoming angry that we have failed, holding unto our anger until we right the wrong, which for some people never happens. They go along life with this knot of anger/hurt/frustration inside them spoiling all the wonderful times they could be experiencing until they die from a broken heart or spirit.

There's too much emphasis on winning if you ask me, but that's just one man's opinion, to each their own I suppose. But do me a favor, next time you get a chance, just take a breathe and really stop and evaluate all you passed up for the big "score" in life, don't wait until it's too late to really "live". :)

zenroth
05-31-2002, 04:57 PM
I think Im gonna have to agree with Dark in general.
Personally I have no idea why raven released 1.03 the way they did. The big requests that I recall was to fix the damm bounding box on the dfa, and a few minor tweaks, not revamp the entire saber system.

As far as a 1.04 goes what I would like to see personally is a return to the 1.02 saber system, the restoration of the DFA, and all stances, but tweak the dfa so it has a normal attack radius.

Keep the increased saber locks

ditch auto blocking and implement manual blocking that requires skill.

Return the saber damage to that of 1.02, but also add more fatality to them. A good saber attack from any stance that contacts a player without shields, or force protect/rage should die.
If i hit in yellow stance with a 45degree shoulder/neck hit you should be dead if it made full contact.

I think what we would have overall would be a much more realistic damage for sabers, and a game that requires high levels of skill and tactics.

Aiee
05-31-2002, 05:17 PM
...Did it ever occur to you that I posted the email on the Cynosure forums and NOT on JKII.net for a reason? ;P

BlackDove
05-31-2002, 06:31 PM
That's why I made my little EULA before I posted it hehehehehe

Aiee
05-31-2002, 08:46 PM
The reason I posted it at cynosure is that it isn't frequented by "Panicky Impatient 12-year-olds", and I thought it wouldn't be fair to chang to have him quoted as saying such in front of them. ;] After all, that email was from just after 1.03 was released, and the poor guy was probably pretty stressed with all the "OMG! U KILLED T3H DFA! U SUK!!!!11!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!" raven was most likely getting at that time.

Razage
05-31-2002, 09:04 PM
Indeed Aiee, Indeed...

BlackDove
05-31-2002, 09:11 PM
I understand Aiee, but I still had to do it because it did say they are working on something. Don't want people to lose hope. Anyway, you posted the thing, not me, so don't kill the messanger :p

M@nd@lori@n
05-31-2002, 09:15 PM
Ijust hope they leave it as it is now, players must adapt to the current patch. Weather its the old patch the current or a new future patch either way you have to adapt to the stronge and weakness of sabering. Just keep it at the current version, I'm just now getting the feel of it.:rolleyes: :fett:

Razage
05-31-2002, 09:18 PM
It could have been worse, he could have LINKED to the cynosure forms.

BlackDove
05-31-2002, 09:20 PM
And then they could see the whole post heh.....

JK Legacy
05-31-2002, 09:24 PM
I think the 1.03 patch was an improvement in the way of sabers, the DFA move was successfully balanced imo, the blocking may be a little high.. maybe a slight increase in saber damage or just less blocking would _balance_ it more.

as for the ammo, totally agree, slightly faster respawn on ammo and a slight increase in actual amounts of ammo....taking the skill away from aiming? if it was increased too much yes, but if it was balanced.. no... i'm not saying thats easy for raven to achieve being as its a personal preference depending on the players skill/style of play.

the backstab, I think it's damaged should just be reduced, like DFA was in 1.03. it wouldnt stop ppl using it but it wouldnt be so effective, in "unrealistic" situations (yes, fighting with lightsabers isnt realistic but for the sake of the game).

the force powers, i dont think its possible for raven to get a perfect balance with the.. 10+? factors. I think its fairly balanced right now, there's ppl who complain about push/pull etc. but then thats personal preference again.

i dont think its possible to make a patch to please everyone, due to styles of play, levels of play, gametypes. but i think the current patch is quite close to being fairly balanced, in the way that in a game you dont come out thinking 'god, that move's so cheap/spammed/annoyin' theres always going to be moves better than others, but i think as it is now it could be made slightly more 'balanced'

ok now flame me, call me a 'noob', just my view on this shindig.

BlackDove
05-31-2002, 09:27 PM
I need Eminem.....

Kurgan
06-01-2002, 03:05 AM
Sheesh.. how many more of these threads do we need? It started out interesting enough, with something somewhat new being said, then it turns into the usual Raven/1.03 patch bashing and flaming between people over what should be changed if anything.

It's really old, can we talk about something else for a change? Or better yet, find a way to consolidate all of these cookie cutter whining's into one thread? (I can dream, can't I?)

Okay, got that off my chest... time to move on!

Nathan Wind
06-01-2002, 03:15 AM
these solutions, as well as the overly long posts, are making my head hurt. the right way to go about it is, "how can i make this like 1.02 and not messed up in any overly glaring ways"

Vestril
06-01-2002, 03:30 AM
It's really old, can we talk about something else for a change? Or better yet, find a way to consolidate all of these cookie cutter whining's into one thread? (I can dream, can't I?)


I thought admins could do that, merge threads or something...

BlackDove
06-01-2002, 12:37 PM
I didn't mean the thread to be this big actually. Just wanted the people that things are being worked on (well apparently), but I guess there is an over amount of people thinking how Raven will take their opinion into consideration...

Perniciosus
06-01-2002, 01:13 PM
Havoc is right.. the game is supposed to be about fun.

Unfortunately, 1.03 made the game a lot less fun for me. But rather than mope about, I played 1.03 for a while and then wrote a well-written letter (not e-mail, for some things, being professional is better) to file my complaints with Raven Software. I still occasionally play 1.03 and, just as I didn't have any problems with the DFA in 1.02, I don't have any problems with the backstab spammers. It's the endless spinning and blocking just bores me to tears and the increased lag that keeps me from playing it more.

This is not to say that there aren't some fun aspects of 1.03, so I agree wholeheartedly with Havoc's post about a "hybrid" version between 1.02 and 1.03.

In my most humble of opinions, I'm saddened to see (and hear of) increased nerfing of the saber and force powers in a game that's sold off of the name Jedi Knight. Continue nerfing the saber and force powers and all we'll have is a Q3A wanna-be game set in a galaxy far, far away... If that happens, JK2 will probably be forgotten by most in late June/August when UT2k3 hits the shelves.

BlackDove
06-01-2002, 01:16 PM
ZZZZZZzzzzzzz, btw, someone wanna lock this? I think the first post in the thread was important, the rest is just garbage. And me being the creator, I ASK THAT THIS BE CLOSED MOHAHAHA :p