View Full Version : WIP: Sidious\Palpatine very early model

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Adonai Saboath
03-14-2002, 09:00 PM
it would be BEST if you showed Palpatine against a white or light gray background. Not black, as it doesn't contrast with the robes very well at all....

03-14-2002, 09:02 PM
Yes! the head looks beautiful.
I happen to think he's rather handsome :holosid:

One great thing about this guy, is that he likes the sound of his own voice. He loves to talk... while he's devastating his opponent with his Ultimate Power!! :lightning

His taunt is "In time, you will call me... Master!"

But he has a whole slew of spiteful, manipulative, and evil comments that he'll likely throw your way.

The sounds for him are a little different than most other models, but that's because I believe he's a little different than most other characters. I hope you all will enjoy the sounds as much as I have so far.
I really enjoyed listening to all his inciteful lecturings while I was editing the sound files. It made me feel much more... powerful... and hateful...


"Use your aggressive feelings..."

05-28-2002, 11:03 PM
Just figured I'd hop on over on my way out tonight and show you guys what I've been working on.

Started late last night, sorry for the crummy image, I didn't have time to take another one. Comments/Suggestions always welcome. Again, it's a very early model

(Old Link Removed)

Hope you guys dig it :D

05-28-2002, 11:24 PM
tee hee
cant wait to be a lightning **ore with this lol

05-29-2002, 10:14 PM
Figured I'd post another shot, this time it's rendered better, and I changed a few things. The robe will be longer, probly to just over the bottem of the ankle. I'm also planning to mess with the verts once I get the shape down pat

(Link removed due to being extremely outdated)

I have a seprate face in progress that I'm trying to get to look like Sidious from RoTJ, still kinda strange looking so I won't post a shot until I have it skined (the face)

I have a question for all my fellow modelers, I want to make the hood loop and drape over his forehead, but one of the problems I'm running into is that once I get it shaped properly from the side, I can see through his hood from in front. Will I need to model the entire inside of his hood? Or would I UVW map the inside of the robe as well and fix it with a black/dark blue texture?

(*) <-head with hood
(-*-) <-head with hood, - = blank space/see through

Any advice you guys can offer would rock :D

Count Toonces :deathstar

05-29-2002, 11:44 PM
Face shouldn't be so visible. And Palpatine is NOT Darth Sidious! We don't know that yet! Why does everyone make that mistake? Am I missing something?

05-30-2002, 12:36 AM
Very easy task to accomplish Toonces.

Ok do this:

First select the hood. If it's part of another mesh beisdes the hood, detatch the hood.

Now clone the hood so that you now have two hoods that overlap eachother and occupy the very same space.

No select the clone hood... convert ot editable mesh, select the faces sub object and flip normals. That will make the faces in the clone hood face the opposite direction while still occupying the very same space as the original hood... there.. no more see through hood. It would be wise to skinmap the hood beofre you clone so that you dont have to skinmap the clone as well.

now all you need to do is either keep hi mthat way or attach both hoods (it's best if leave them as separate meshes so you can apply a diferent texture to the inside, making it darker.

There... that should help... if you need anymore help just lemme know.


05-30-2002, 12:43 AM
not bad so far, perhaps you could open the hood up at the bottom so the sides droop down? here are some reference pics:

05-30-2002, 01:00 AM
Originally posted by Epimetheus
Face shouldn't be so visible. And Palpatine is NOT Darth Sidious! We don't know that yet! Why does everyone make that mistake? Am I missing something?

Well, I think everyone assumes that 'cause it's so dang obvious.

05-30-2002, 01:04 AM
What makes it so obvious? Physical appearance? I mean, sure it makes sense. But we still don't know for sure. Its unsubstantiated. Its been hinted at, but can't be absolutely certain until Ep3.

05-30-2002, 01:16 AM
That's a great start! Some good suggestions have been made already :) Open up the lower part of the hood opening, bring down the bottom of the robe, and make sure you put a bit of a hunch to the back :)

And Palpatine IS Sidious, unless we see otherwise in Episode 3. I don't know why people try to say we have to assume they aren't just because they haven't been specifically connected in the movies. It's quite clear based on all we've seen that they ARE the same person. They could pull a fast one on us in Episode 3, but it's doubtful. There's really no reason for them to be seperate people.

Anywho, enough straying from the topic. Keep up the good work on Palpy/Sidious, can't wait to see him done :)


05-30-2002, 01:18 AM
Originally posted by Epimetheus
What makes it so obvious? Physical appearance? I mean, sure it makes sense. But we still don't know for sure. Its unsubstantiated.

Not just physical appearance, but also the approximately billion hints they've dropped in TPM and AOTC. :D

05-30-2002, 01:29 AM
and Ian McDirmind(bad sp) plays both characters

05-30-2002, 01:47 AM
If Palpatine and Sidious arn't the same person I'd be shocked beyond beleif. Even starwars.com has a picture of Sidious on the same page as Palpatine's bio is on.

Thanks for your suggestions guys, and thanks for the tip Blood, that really helps alot.

I had the hood tapered in because I didn't know how to do the inside of the hood, it should look 10x better as soon as I straighten it out. I'll post another shot tommorow.

Back to Max :D

CT :deathii:

05-30-2002, 01:58 AM
Originally posted by Epimetheus
Face shouldn't be so visible. And Palpatine is NOT Darth Sidious! We don't know that yet! Why does everyone make that mistake? Am I missing something?

you might wanna take a second to check out this:

Quote - "Palpatine crafted an elaborate trap that was to be the end of the Rebellion. He also concentrated on converting Luke Skywalker to the dark side of the Force, even at the expense of sacrificing Vader."

Heck, even look at Palpatine's weapon on the left side of that page, Dark-side lightning

as you can clearly see, Palpatine is indeed Darth Sidous

05-30-2002, 02:05 AM
It always made sense, I guess... it all makes sense now. Still, Sidious and Emperor Palpatine have different hoods... Sidious' face is hidden, while Palpatine's is not so much while he sitting. But then again, his face was mostly covered when coming off of the shuttle in RoTJ...

The point is, I'm a complete, oblivious moron. People should just stop listening to me.

And no, that is not a joke.


05-30-2002, 10:05 PM
hmmm. i wouldnt be so sure. lucas has contradicted himself before with his strange twists.... c3po built by anakin, Quigon, not yoda instructed obiwan and such. besides, there needs to be a really crazy twist in this one. one that will make all the fans shocked. the emperor seems like an obvious answer. palpatine could have a twin, who knows, dont merge the two just yet, call me crazy, but lucas hasn't laid it all out in plain daylight yet. hey, maybe sidious is anakin's father.... "there was no father"... well if you ask me, shmi is pretty weakminded >>
:sithm: [waves hand]~ "you did not just sleep with dark lord sidious" ....
:elaine: ~"i did not just sleep with dark lord sidious"

hope to see a model update soon! :D

05-31-2002, 07:40 PM
Ah ha! I've finally been able to log on, man these forums get busy at night. Anyway, I'm posting a few more shots, the model will soon be going into beta testing, I'm getting ready to UV map it soon. I'd like to get as much feedback as I can get about shape and size

here goes :D

(Links removed due to being totally outdated)

The face still isn't 100% ready, but it's looking much better than it did the other day, and once I apply a skin to it (and some more tweaks) I think I should have a pretty convincing Sidious face.

On an other note, I got a question about poly count for all you experenced JK modelers, the model by itself is about 2200, so I beleive I have alot of room to to work with, but if I factor in the skeleton It says I'm pushing 3800. Do I have to factor in all that extra junk? Or do only the parts of the model matter? I hope it's the latter since it will allow me to really get a great flowing look for the robe

Back to JK (need a break from Max) :D

CT :deathii:

05-31-2002, 10:37 PM
I think the hood should come a little further down. But the hood is really constantly changing. In the prequels, it comes waaay down. When exiting the shuttle in RoTJ, it's about the same. Then when he sits down, it comes up to reveal his face. Whatever.

05-31-2002, 11:16 PM
I agree with you Epimetheus, I'm going to bring down the hood a tiny bit and see what happens. I tried it yesterday and it looked awkward, but I optimized quite a bit today and now have some additional room to work with. The poly count right now is a little over 2200 so I have some room to add additional detail.

Back to Max :D

CT :deathii:

Angry Sandwich
06-01-2002, 12:07 AM
I'm looking forward to your model. :)

I think the sleeves should be a bit longer and more baggy (or something to that effect). Check out this reference picture. Its picture of a Darth Sidious Action figure from Episode 1. I love how he looks in the shot:


06-01-2002, 12:08 AM
Yay, I made a valid point! Score!

And by the way, it always strikes me as odd to see the hood mismatched in terms of color. But it's not even skinned yet, so it doesn't matter.
Your model is good; skinning will be nice and easy.

06-01-2002, 12:17 AM
Heh, yeah, I made it blue so I could see better how it flowed, I just changed the color to match the rest of the body and it actually looks solid which looks cool, I'll post any further shots like that, it just looks much more uniform

And thanks for the shot Sandwich, I havent seen it before. I'm not sure how much longer I can make the arms and have it work right with the animations, that's what beta testing if for though :D

Back to Max :D

CT :deathii:

06-01-2002, 02:23 AM
Wow, those are big sleeves. That's something I'm pretty sure the Emperor doesn't have...

06-01-2002, 02:34 AM
You don't suppose when you finish this awesome Sidious skin that you could maybe work on a robed anakin, where he does have a hood, but it is on his back, not his head. its the one with him wearing that black jedi robe. I've posted many a time for this model, but no one seems to be able to do it, or doesn't have the time to.

06-01-2002, 04:49 AM
Ok, I've smoothed it out a bit, and adjusted the hood a little more. The hood definatly needs just a tiny bit more tweaking and I'll be happy

(Link removed due to being way old)

I didn't forget you Epimetheus, I remembered to change the color on the hood so you could see how it will be it blends together :D

Still tweaking the arms, I'll have to test them before I release it

Oh, and andy, I was considering giving that a shot, Blood riots new model looks like that might be what your looking for. If BloodRiot doesnt mind, you could skin an Anakin on him and see how it looks. I might give it a shot though

CT :deathii:

Darkhold X
06-02-2002, 12:13 AM
The opening to the hood should have more of a bell kinda shape. Yours just goes straight down. http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/darthsidious/img/movie_bg.jpg

OOOOoo http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=58804 his hood is shaped the right way. Thats the shape it should be. THats the only thing I see wrong with yours other than making the face a bit wider looking maybe.

06-02-2002, 04:03 AM
I worked on is a bit this morning and the hood is rounded on the bottom. I'm unfortunatly not home right now or I'd post a shot.

The model is esentually done, I'll be adding tags and weighting it tommorow. Now I just need to find a good artist that would be willing to skin it for me

More shots soon :D

CT :deathii:

06-03-2002, 03:06 AM
Unfortunatly I haven't had too much time to work on the model in the last few days, but I figured that I'd post a new shot of the updated hood


Not finished yet, but should give everyone a good idea where I'm going with it.

More to come :D

CT :deathii:

06-03-2002, 03:08 AM
The model looks like hes wearing glasses, lol

Darkhold X
06-03-2002, 02:31 PM
Hoods much better now. *golf claps*

06-04-2002, 01:47 PM
Wow. He's got some serious baggage under his eyes. But that is accurate, I suppose. Palpatine is a very creepy man. Have you noticed the bags under his eyes got bigger from Ep1 to Ep2? Then by RotJ, he's got yellow eyes, red patches under his eyes, huge bags, and he looks like an albino.

Darkhold X
06-04-2002, 01:52 PM
Well you wouldnt be getting to much sun if you were sitting around that dark throne room in space, with that big ol hood either.:D

06-04-2002, 05:05 PM
Don't make fun of Palpatine or I will smite you all! By the way good model, perhaps just make the sleeves just a bit longer and make a little rectangular bump for the Sith Clasp he wears under his neck.

:emperor: :saberr:

06-04-2002, 06:22 PM
Unfortunatly I havent had time to work on him yet this week. I have a little block made for his clasp, but since the hood isn t completed just yet I havent attached it to his chest. I'm definatly shooting for his RoTJ look, maby a little younger. Mapped the eyes this weekend, yellow and creepy :D

I'll try to find time to work on him tonight, should have a few shots tommorow, I'll try to include his freaky eyes :D

On another note, I have a friend in the industry (not a big SW fan ironically) who uses Softimage at work, I'm trying to talk him into animateing the robe for me. He's really busy, but who knows

CT :deathii:

06-05-2002, 08:27 PM

06-05-2002, 10:47 PM
The Model Looks great

Originally posted by Epimetheus
Still, Sidious and Emperor Palpatine have different hoods... Sidious' face is hidden, while Palpatine's is not so much while he sitting. But then again, his face was mostly covered when coming off of the shuttle in RoTJ...

Sideus didn't want people to know he was really palpatine cause he had things as Palpatine so he hides his face.

06-06-2002, 12:23 AM
I know, I know. Sidious had to live in the shadows like a warehouse on Coruscant before "moving on up, to the east side" to a deluxe palace in a more centralized area. But I noticed... maybe the robes are too smooth... I notice that they're always rippled in the films. Though that might be hard to do.

06-09-2002, 08:42 PM
Any update on this?

06-10-2002, 01:53 AM
Yeah, we need 50 cc's of bump, stat!

06-10-2002, 02:52 AM
*1 CC of shameless bumpage*

06-10-2002, 06:35 AM
Sorry guys, been away for most of the week, I'll post some more shots in a few hours.

Thanks for the bumps :D

CT :deathii:

06-11-2002, 01:40 AM
Alright, I know I promised screenies, they will hopefully come tommorow, the model looks pretty much the same as the last shots I've posted, his sleeves look much baggier, and I've almost nailed the face. Anyway, here's what's going on though.

I've got a buddy in the industry (he has XSI 2.0.1) who I was trying to get to make some animations for our pal Lord Sidious. Anyway, to make a long story short , He gave me the CD's for his copy of Softimage 3D (3.9) which he doesnt have use for anymore, so I'm going to learn softimage (thankfully he will help me :D ) and attempt to make some animations for him (I have a really cool idea about the hood)

More shots soon (I have to start adding some textures to my next shots (color is good) so Jediknightii.net will post a link to this thread too :D

CT :deathii:

06-11-2002, 02:18 AM
Yeah, giddy up. Sounds good.

06-11-2002, 11:56 PM
Need I say, bump!

06-12-2002, 03:19 PM
Thanks for the bumps, I'm glad you guys dig the model :D

Here is another shot, it's not too diffrent from how it was before, mostly optimization and smoothing of some lines.

I'm really happy with how the hood lays on the shoulders now. I still have a bit of work to do on the body itself, smooth out that line between the torso/hips, tweak some verts to bunch up the robe in some areas.


I've begun to texture him, just the hood right now, I'll post some textured shots asap, I'm looking for the perfect peice of fabric to base it off of

more to come soon :D

CT :deathii:

06-12-2002, 03:25 PM
lookin' good. keep up the good work!

Darkhold X
06-13-2002, 12:51 AM
THe only thing I could suggest is if there is some poly count to work with yet, or soem ploys that arent needed were the are is to make some waviness int eh cloak. Even a realy good skinner might have a hard time making it not look so smooth. I think you kind of said somethign to the effect already, but thats all I think thats needed.:)

06-13-2002, 12:54 AM
Ooooh... purdy...

He's wearing an elegant evening gown...

06-13-2002, 01:26 AM
His big secret is out now, Sidious is a crossdresser ;)

Still tweaking thoes verts, I'll post a shot when I get an effect I like (Being a perfectionist is very time consumeing) :D

CT :deathii:

Darkhold X
06-13-2002, 01:59 AM
It sure is. You never get stuff done.:(

by the way I think of that driving cat from snl every time I see your name.:D

06-14-2002, 06:09 PM
Heh, Toonces was one of my favorate skits ever on snl, I got a big kick out of him everytime he drove over a cliff :D

Here's the latest with the model:


I'm going to start capping and weighting him tonight or tommorow, I need to get him in game with a basic set of textures to really know what I'm going to have to tweak. I'm pretty happy with the way he's comming out, I might still want to add some ruffles here and there, but I'll get a better Idea of what to do once I get him in md3view

Hope you all dig the changes :D

CD :deathii:

06-14-2002, 06:13 PM
oh yeah! your sidious/palpatine model is looking *BLEEP* incredible. good luck getting him in-game.

do you think the ruffles could be dealt with in the skin instead of having to modify what you have already? just a thought.

06-14-2002, 06:19 PM
Heh, you made my day Adillon, thanks :D

That's why I'm not going to touch him till I get a skin on him, so I can see what various effects I can do with the robe before I tweak any more. I love the effect I got with the bottom half of the robe

Glad you like it :D

CT :deathii:

06-14-2002, 06:45 PM
I think it looks ... why isn't there a smilie with his hands touching his lips ... great. But is it possible to make him a little bit shorter like in the movies. And his back a little bend. I like it also this way but it's just a suggestion.

BTW which taunt are you gonna use? :D

06-14-2002, 06:54 PM
I hate to butt in like this and just straight-up give you some criticism, but I want to be constructive. It really seems like his chest/torso area is unusually wide...

I like the idea of a mad hopping Emperor wielding a lightsaber, though. Way to go on this project, and I hope you make some righteous skins for it!

06-14-2002, 08:18 PM
Critisism is very welcome Dredd, I wouldnt have gotten as far as I did without some help :D

I think it's the angle that I rendered it at that gives the look of his chest being wide. I had his shoulders quite a bit wider in earlier models, but after watching RotJ again I realised that he was quite a bit smaller than I made him innitally. If I have some time I'll post a square frontal view for you to take a look at.

As for his height, there isnt much I can do with it, we're all stuck using the MP skeleton that Raven gave us with the SDK, a problem that Kinja knows all too well. (see his fab Yoda model :D ) As soon as I get him weighted, tagged, and in md3view, I might be able to adjust his height just enough to make him appear shorter, I might not be able to do it, but I'll give it a shot :D

CT :deathii:

Oops, forgot to add, the hump IS there, it's just hidden by the hood. It's one of thoes things I'll look at making more prominent once I get him into md3view

06-14-2002, 08:49 PM
You will make an amazing model and skin. I have forseen it. Everything that has transpired, has done so according to my designs.
-sorry- got carried away...again!

Great job so far. Best of luck in the trials ahead.
Have you used Dark DNA's Emperor Skin? It is quite good, except that it's Reborn's Model. The reason I ask is because I LOVE the sounds that they used. Especially the AMOUNT of sounds. (His laugh when he jumps is great!)
My only request is to give him a lot of different sounds for a bunch of different actions. This, combined with what looks like will be a great model, will make it hands down the ultimate object of Sith-Holyness!


06-15-2002, 02:50 AM
Can't wait for you to get this done. Awesome job!!
Oh, and for the earlier posts about Palpatine/Sidious; read the books Episodes 1-9.
All becomes clear.

aL BeasTie
06-15-2002, 04:18 AM
First of all he looks great - just make sure you get that nice smokey black colour for his robes. not so much related but why diddn't Raven at least release the ugnaught as a root.xsi.

At least we could have some models that are a tad shorter -oh well, this means my Jawa skin is going to have ears! :(
oh well if any one wants him -


please don't expect the excellence of work that has been seen here

06-16-2002, 11:09 AM
2 critical points. Robe needs to flow and have a little extra bit at the back to drag behind him, the hood needs to be extra large and fold over the top of the robe at front and back.

06-17-2002, 12:56 AM
Originally posted by DarExc
2 critical points. Robe needs to flow and have a little extra bit at the back to drag behind him, the hood needs to be extra large and fold over the top of the robe at front and back.

Flowing robes aren't possible without a special $1000 program. It ain't gonna happen!

06-17-2002, 06:33 AM
I'd love to be able to nail the flowing robes. While I do have a friend with a copy of Softimage, he's not an animator and neither am I :(

I might tweak the hood and the robe a little still, I'll have to see how things go. I UV mapped the face early yesterday and just started to texture the face

Here is a really really really (alot of r's) early shot


A mountian of work left to do :eek:

CT :lightning

06-17-2002, 07:28 AM
looking damn good!!! :D Only thing i cane see wrong with the model so far it that your palpatine seems to have grown in height over the film version!!! Maybe shorten him by 6 inches scale? ask you can see this mock up below is a lot shorter and dumpier than your model...

You should also try and model the face on the actor who played palpatine in the movies... heres a good reference pic!

keep working on it... its not there yet but ive got a feeling it will be!!!;)

06-17-2002, 07:43 AM
Glad you like it :D

Thanks alot for that pic! I hadn't seen it yet, that'll help me quite a bit when it comes to the wrinkles on his face.

I modeled the head off shots of the emperor from episode VI, I think I pretty much nailed the shape of his head. Now the hard part comes :D

I'd really love to be able to get the height and posture right, unfortunatly us modelers are rather limited when it comes to that (the root.xsi skel is a pain) Once I can get him into MD3 view I'll get a better picture on what I'm able to do with that

CT :lightning

Darkhold X
06-17-2002, 11:17 AM
It will be cool to make his eyes kinda glow, or something. To kinda imitate the light on RotJ.:)

Just because I couldnt resist... :o http://gfx.jt.org/snlmm/vid.gfx/snljtorg-sketch-toonces-02.jpg

06-17-2002, 11:54 AM
Maybe you could move the head forward and down to include the bad posture if you made an extra head behind it that would be attached to the skeleton in the correct location. Then you could just alpha the extra head out and weight the real head(the one we would see) to it. You might get some wierd stretching or warping during certain animations in-game, but it could be tweaked to near perfection. A few bugs would be worth seeing the emporer in his full decrepid glory :D

06-17-2002, 02:49 PM
Looks cool man, keep up the good work. I think the body is a bit off, i.e. to wide, but like you said you are not done. I can't wait to see the finished product. Maybe we can get your Emporer and Yoda they are doing to duke it out. :syoda: :lightning

06-18-2002, 12:56 AM
Heh, I'd love to see that, the ultimate showdown, the two polar oppisites of the force square off :D I'll have to talk to Kinja about getting Yoda in SP so I can get a few cool shots of him fighting our boy Sidious :D

I had some fun in photoshop last night, here's what I came up with


Still a ton to do, I havent added any color yet, just wanted to outline the basic facial features. The eyes are creepy which is good, but I have to work on them a bit, and the bags directly under his eyes are a tad too dark, but like I said, I've only just begun his face :D

I'm planning on working on the torso, reshaping a bit as soon as I get bored with photoshop, I was just really psyced up to work on the skin for the face, so I went for it

More to come :p

CT :lightning

P.S. Great Pick Darkhold :D

06-18-2002, 01:24 AM

That's really creepy looking. But just make sure his skin is more white than gray on the final version...

Geez, that scared me...

06-18-2002, 02:18 AM
Yes, another update!!
Keep up the good work.
It's always good to start doing a little facial outlining, and get the feel for how it's shaping up.

When you get furhter along, shadows upon his creased face should really help to scare people.

Let your hatred flow.

06-18-2002, 02:27 AM
This looks to be a great model/skin, there is only one huge problem I see coming with it. Lightning does not do enogh dam. to show the true power of Sidious...some people are gonna wanna woop with evil lightning and get beat to death with a sabre handel.

Someone should make a mod (and its not hard 2 do I used to make Diablo II mods) where the lightning dam. is better, and the mana drain is slower, um force not mana.... You can offset this by when using lighting or after using it you move slower, for like 20 secs, so the person could run away.... Call the entire mod something snazzy.

Well I'm Out,

06-18-2002, 02:38 AM
If you would make one skin for Sidious maybe you could make it so most of the face was dark except for the mouth, kind of in the movies where you can not see his face.:deathii:

06-18-2002, 03:52 AM
Here's a good facial reference pic I came across if you're in need:


06-18-2002, 05:09 AM
Good work, the model's looking great! One thing about the skin though...

I know you said it's an early, early, early version, but still. The skin on his face looks kind of tight (well, FIRM, I guess). It makes him look younger than in RotJ. Also, something about the eyes: The pic in the above post shows it well. The eyes are a bit tilted downwards. Also the bags under his eyes are looser. (God DAMN he looks horrible in the photo! The skin on his face looks so tired it could just... fall off!!!)

You're on the right track, keep it up!!!

06-19-2002, 05:43 AM

Lucko Mabri
06-19-2002, 06:11 AM
its not at the top! pointless bumping!

06-19-2002, 06:33 AM
Toonces, some sugestions for you.

Model some wrinkles in his cloak, and before you go any farther you need to think about the game.

If his sleeves stay the way you have them, they will point outwards once he's ingame. They need to be drawn backwards to they look right ingame.

Keep at it!

06-19-2002, 07:22 AM
Originally posted by inbredyokel
Here's a good facial reference pic I came across if you're in need:


Excellent reference pic!!! :D

06-19-2002, 07:35 AM
Hmm, I never knew ET was a Sith lord.

06-19-2002, 08:44 AM
Thanks for the additional refrence pic :D Will definatly help me out with detailing.

CheshireKat : The sleeves were something I was thinking about, I was going to actually post a message about that but you beat me to it :D I'll fix thoes asap

I'm definatly going to model some additional wrinkles into the model, I was just getting ansy to get into Photoshop, so I UV mapped the head. I was hoping that with my friends help (he has a copy of Softimage3d) that I would be able to animate the robe to give it some flow, but it looks to be a real hassle

I'm a pretty inexperenced modeler so I really apprishate how helpful everyone here has been :D Hopefully my art background will be able to overcome my modeling inexperence :D

I've gotten the face to look quite a bit like Palp, I'll post an update as soon as I get a little further along

CT :lightning

P.S. ET?

06-19-2002, 08:49 AM
Yea, ET as in Spielberg's short extra-terrestrial with a finger/forehead and telephone fetish. You've got to admit there's an amazingly strong resemblance between him and our Sidious, perhaps they're really the same person. Or something. Or perhaps I should be quiet and wait patiently for you to finish this highly groovy model.

06-21-2002, 03:39 AM
heh, yeah, now that you mention it they do look quite a bit alike :D Now that's a good idea for another model, ET! :p

I figured I'd write an update since the post fell down a few pages. The skin for the face is really shaping up nicely, I still have quite a few lines to add to it, but I'm convinced that I'll be able to nail the face completely :D

I was skiming through RotJ late last night looking for potential sounds when I noticed something I hadnt noticed before. Sidious appears to have a light weight gown on the interior of his robe, complete with a rope belt on his waist, so I decided to open up the front of the robe completly, and model the inner robe, Should look really cool in game :D

I also sloped the head down a bit more, and brought the hood over his face a little more

He's getting there, step by step

CT :lightning

06-21-2002, 07:13 AM
Your doing a great job! I can't wait to see this guy in game. :lightning

06-21-2002, 10:07 AM
Can't wait...

And apparently, all messages must end with :lightning:

06-21-2002, 10:41 AM
To Name all the Darths

Darth Maul
Darth Vader
Darth Bane
Darth Sidious isn't Palpatine
Palpatine's name is (Emperor Palpatine)
Darth Tryant

THats all of them

How I can prove it that Sidious isn't Palpatine is in Espidos 1 Sidous was the guy with Darth Maul and Palpatine was with the Queen

06-21-2002, 10:43 AM
Tread isn't down yet

06-21-2002, 10:50 AM
blackice, ROFL good one.

they're the same person dude.

06-21-2002, 12:10 PM
It's been debated to death.

I'm convinced it's the same guy, and that doesnt even have anything to do with the fact that the same actor plays both charecters in episode I & 2 and played the Emperor in Return of the Jedi

Anyway, this would belong in the skining forum if not for the fact that I'm making a model too :D


I flipped out when I rendered this shot, needless to say I'm :D :D :D

I have some finishing touched to add to the face, and the body of the model, then I can begin to texture the rest of the model

More to come :D

CT :lightning (I love this icon)

06-21-2002, 12:11 PM
Cool! Layered robing... I love it.
I figured you just didn't want to be bothered with the extra robing. Gad you've added it.
Best of luck!



06-21-2002, 12:16 PM
That face is getting there! The lines are looking great!
Excellent job!
I just saw this after I posted. Guess I could have just edited my post, but I wanted you to see that I think it's looking tremendous.

Let your HATRED flow!

With each passing moment you are becoming more and more the model's servant.



06-21-2002, 12:24 PM
heh, nah, I just never saw it before. It's been a while since I've seen RotJ, and I pretty much just did the model from refrence pics. Once I knew it was there, it would have bugged me too much to release the model without the inside layer

Glad you like the face :D

CT :lightning

06-21-2002, 12:25 PM
Very nice job on that face, Toonces!! This guy is looking great!

And that crap about Palpatine not being Sidious, you guys really should give that up. It's been very definitively stated by Lucasfilm that they ARE the same person. There is no room for debate. It's like saying "Perhaps the sun is really made of brocolli."

06-21-2002, 02:27 PM
I've actually heard that the sun may be made of a type of broccoli.
It has some similar moleculer make-up within it's protien structure and the photon pattern of certain light waves tastes very good with cheese which has led to some scientists hypothesizing that the sun may in fact be made of some form of green vegetable and most probably a distant relative of broccoli. So, you'll be happy to know, that by eating a minimum of 2 grams of sun each day, a person's chances of getting cancer is reduced immeasurably.
Er, at least that's what I read on the internet.


"I love democracy. And I love the Republic."


Just to stay on topic: Yes Toonces, I am really liking the face!

06-22-2002, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by nomad
I've actually heard that the sun may be made of a type of broccoli.
It has some similar moleculer make-up within it's protien structure and the photon pattern of certain light waves tastes very good with cheese which has led to some scientists hypothesizing that the sun may in fact be made of some form of green vegetable and most probably a distant relative of broccoli. So, you'll be happy to know, that by eating a minimum of 2 grams of sun each day, a person's chances of getting cancer is reduced immeasurably.
Er, at least that's what I read on the internet.


"I love democracy. And I love the Republic."


Just to stay on topic: Yes Toonces, I am really liking the face!

Damn...he has a good point.
Nice model toonces,i like the robe!

06-22-2002, 03:44 AM
Thanks Brakiss :D

I've got a request for the community, does anyone have any really close up (and detailed) pics of the symbol that sidious wears on his colar? I've found a few semi-close pics, but nothing I can find shows enough detail for me to skin it

I'm going to try to finish modeling tonight or tommorow so I can start skining the rest of him (and the tedious job of weighting and taging)

CT :lightning

06-22-2002, 04:14 AM
Im a Sidious freak so I can tell you anything you need, http://webhome.idirect.com/~tk421/DSbrooch2001sm.jpg
thats as close as it gets. I actualy own one of these as well =) but not from this guy.

06-22-2002, 04:27 AM
Toonces I just went to The Magic Of Myth:Star Wars Exhibit at the Brooklin Museum the other day. They have tons of actual movie costumes and props.
It is an Absolutely Awesome experience. If you live anywhere NY, you should definately check it out.
Anyway, the reason for my Homerism is that they have the Emperor's Robes in a display case, complete with all the robes, his cane and his cloak clasp, but my digital camera ran out of batteries BEFORE I got to his display!

The clasp is very strange. It's actually a rectangle with strange holes and contours carved smoothly into it's surface. It looks like it could be made out of something like hematite, or some other type of shiny, smooth rock.
It really looked different than I thought it would. In the movie it usually shines and it gives the appearence of a carved metallic clasp, but it's actually a stone (possibly dark grey metal) rectangle with routed carvings.

I can try to draw it from my memory, but I'll also check what reference photos I may have (I've got a few books that might have good stuff, including the one I grabbed at the museum) Also I'm picking up my girlfriend's pictures later, and I'll see if we took any pics of the almighty emperor with what was left on her roll of film.
Small detail, but the more the better right?

I may even go back to the exhibit next week. Not sure if I should :)

Hope I can help


06-22-2002, 04:38 AM
He he, Good job DarExc!
I can sure ramble hehe!

That pic is the real deal.
Did I explain it well? :rolleyes:


06-22-2002, 04:51 AM
Nice, thanks DarExc! That'll be a godsend :D That website has some nice pics of the robe that I might be able to use

Nomad, your discription is dead on. Don't you hate when you run out of film? It definatly looks nothing like I thought it did, I thought it was curved :)

I didn't know there was an exibit up there. I actually live in central NJ, so it's pretty easy for me to get to the city, I should really go up and take a look. How long is it running? I'd love to get a natural light shot of his robe for the texture, I really want to nail the pattern on it

CT :lightning

06-22-2002, 06:19 AM
Central Jersey? Definately GO!
The exhibit ends July 7th and it's $10.
I thought I was fine since I had a digiatl camera, but instead of running out of film, I ran out of batteries >:(
The cloth is really grainy, kind of like long-john material. While I was looking (in awe) at The Emperor's Robes I was thinking about the model you're making and wondering wether Toonces would like to check this out. I'm really glad you're concerned with making all these things right with the model. This is my most desired character model and it seems like you're going to do it the way I would have imagined doing it.
I'm starting to learn about editing stuff in this game myself. I decided to make a bot for a Han Solo skin that I downloaded, and right now I'm trying to give him custom sounds. Unfortunately I can't get the sounds to work and at this point I honestly do not know what I've done wrong. After I learn how to do that (simple) stuff, I'm going to give a go at model making. I am an artist, but I have no idea how I'll do with 3dsmax.
Keep up the good work, it is looking great.

You will go to the Exhibit. The Emperor has forseen it.


06-22-2002, 06:40 AM
Almost perfect..but I think the nose/mouth is looking just a little bit off. In pictures the nose is much fatter around the bridge, and the tip is more round and knobby-looking(but that's more of a model issue). Also, the mouth looks a bit too pronounced, almost like he's holding an orange in the front of his mouth. It think the innermost cheek creases might be a little too far from the mouth. He just doesn't have that evil Mr. Rogers smirk. :D
Its kind of hard to put my finger on..but a good idea that someone tried in the Padme thread when the face wasn't looking right was to take a screenshot of the skinned face from the same angle as an actual photo(like the high res one I posted). Then, on the photo, draw straight lines marking the sides and top of the nose, mouth, eyes, cheeks, chin, and any other pronounced creases or features, and apply those same lines to the screenshot of your model and see how everything lines up.
Most of this stuff is just little nitpicks, but I'm guessing that after putting so much work into this model you want to make it as perfect as humanly possible, so this will be the only sidious/palpatine model and skin anyone will ever look for.

I foresee this becoming the greatest of all models... :emperor:

06-22-2002, 07:10 AM
That looks great Toonces, it may be just me, but are his eyes a little more red? i havent seen the movie in awhile so im nolt very sure myself, other than that it looks great.....

06-22-2002, 07:31 AM
Nah...i watched ROTJ..they have more of a Greenish/Yellow tint

06-22-2002, 08:20 AM
The eye texture isn't quite finished yet, but the eyes are definatly yellow, I'm going to make the eyes a little more bloodshot, it should give a more convincing look

Inbredyokel, that perspective trick is a good idea, I'll give it a shot and see what I can get. :) That'll help with the mouth

I haven't really detailed the noze just yet, I beleive the part at the tip your noticeing is mostly the skin, the bridge however might be a diffrent story, I'll flatten it out a bit and see what happens :D

More to come :D
CT :lightning

06-22-2002, 10:21 AM
I've actually heard that the sun may be made of a type of broccoli.
It has some similar moleculer make-up within it's protien structure and the photon pattern of certain light waves tastes very good with cheese which has led to some scientists hypothesizing that the sun may in fact be made of some form of green vegetable and most probably a distant relative of broccoli. So, you'll be happy to know, that by eating a minimum of 2 grams of sun each day, a person's chances of getting cancer is reduced immeasurably.
Er, at least that's what I read on the internet.

Nomad, any protein on the sun would be immediately denatured once it got withing a few tenths of an astronomical unit. Also, broccoli are made of primarily cellulose and a bit of glucose, not protein.

Also, photons don't have discernible patterns, nor do they travel in any structure that would have a recognizable structure.

Before you ask, I was aware that you were speaking in jest but I chose to educate you.

06-22-2002, 10:59 AM
ooooooooooooooh......jello went to college,huh?
anyways.....that lil Broach thing looks cool....i wonder how you will get that on him in the right spot?

06-23-2002, 03:02 AM
Im adding a post to keep it towards the top, cant wait until the emperor comes out because none of the skins give him justice like this model will. Looks great!


06-23-2002, 06:43 AM
No, I haven't yet gone to college. I'm just a learned fellow.


Anyways, I can't seem to see the WIP screenshot. Is something wrong with the page?


Oh, and a little bit on indesputable evidence that Sidious=Palpatine....

They wear the same clasp on their hood.

They also walk the same. In TPM, Sidious walks on Coruscant with his hands held in front of him a certain way... when Palpatine walks with Anakin in AOTC, he walks the same way. In ROTJ, he also walks with Vader the same way.

06-23-2002, 06:50 AM
Hmm, the links work fine for me, go to www.boomspeed.com/toonces They are on the main page, just scroll down a bit.

Might as well add a little update while I'm here :D

I'm weighting the mesh right now, gonna check out how he deforms and such. I've pulled the hood out front a bit more, as well as bunched it up a tiny bit over the shoulders. The body looks much better now, I'll post another shot soon to show the changes :D

CT :lightning

06-23-2002, 07:09 AM
Ah, I got it now. Thanks.

06-23-2002, 07:25 AM
The Model looks great so far, however i think the arms on the cloak need to be draped down alot more like this:


06-23-2002, 08:32 AM
Thanks Dalhectar :D

scroll back a page and check out one of my earlier shots. I have to model the sleeves backwards because of the skeleton, the actual sleeves are really long and baggy. As soon as I'm finished weighting I'll put him in a pose where you can see them well. They should look quite good ingame :)

Back to weighting :(

CT :lightning

06-23-2002, 11:16 AM
Anytime, Also have you thought about adding some shadows under the hood. It might be a good effect. Just a thought

06-23-2002, 12:32 PM
I'm definatly going to darken the sides and top of his face and head to get that effect, as well as add a very dark texture to the inside of the hood. I can't texture anything but the face until I get him weighted, I'm a little stuck on that now sadly :( I'll work it out though :D

CT :lightning

06-23-2002, 03:34 PM
Still looking great Toonces, can't wait. Just wanted to bump this up near the top again, and for the 2nd time address the Sidious/Palpatine issue. READ THE BOOKS or VISIT FAN SITES. Palpatine is indeed Sidious, let me guess what's next: There's only 6 episodes of Star Wars right? (For those that don't know, there are 9).
Well, I vented; keep up the good work Toonces.

06-24-2002, 02:27 AM
great work, something about his face still doesn't strike me as Ian McDarmid (or however you spell it). Cant quite put my finger on it, think maybe the area between the lip and nose is off somehow.

Still unsure though, who knows, theres some twist coming up, maybe its not the emperor/palpatine controversy, maybe the emperor is related to someone or something. but it has to do with the emperor, whatever lucas' sick twist is. and thats right, 9 episodes. hope Digital Technology gets better so they wont need the real actors in the last 3 movies so they can reproduce the old actors. I want them to make all 9, but if you've seen Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher lately, you know thats not happening any time soon :p --the funny thing is, McDairmid looks like he hasnt aged a day.

06-24-2002, 03:05 AM
Actually, sorry to burst your bubble, but there won't be 9 movies. That was Lucas' original plan, but he has stated repeatedly over the past several years that Episode 3 will be the last Star Wars movie, period. His current vision is that the Star Wars movie saga is the story of the downfall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker.

Maybe his plans will change in the future for 3 more movies, but for now, don't count on it.

And to stay on topic--- Toonces, that face looks VERY good! I can't wait to see this finished, I can tell it's going to be a great model!

06-24-2002, 03:07 AM
There aren't 9. That whole storyline was scrapped around ROTJ. 7 was originally about Luke becoming a Jedi. 8 was about Luke going to the Dark Side. 9 was the first appearance of the Emperor.

That was all changed when he made ROTJ, and Lucas has no plans to make any further episodes.

06-24-2002, 03:16 AM
Mhhh i don't think its realy good. but for a hobby-modeler its quite good

06-24-2002, 04:29 AM
That's because it hasn't been skinned yet. For an unskinned model, it's very good indeed. Think before you criticise, please.

06-24-2002, 04:41 AM
Great work Toonces.

This is off subject, but aren't you people pissed that you only use one hand while doing force lightning. I always thought force lightning would kick ass with 2 hands :)...Bah..just my bum tastes..

06-24-2002, 10:20 AM
Yeah, that would be nice :D Who knows, maby down the road we'll be able to add that animation to the game. While I have access to a copy of Softimage, and a pretty good understanding of how to animate in Max, we have to wait for Raven to start talking to us about animation first.

It looks like Sithlord-ii solved my problems, I was having trouble with the skin modifier, I think I've got it now. Thanks again Sith :D

Anyway, I'm going to put the finishing touches on the model in the next couple days, then all that's left to do it UVmap and Weight, and the in-game testing will begin :)

Need zzz's badly

CT :lightning

06-24-2002, 11:35 AM
Can you post a flat shaded render? It'd be easier to see whats goin on that way.

06-24-2002, 11:39 AM
you should give him the expression he makes when using lightning, like the darth maul model has the expression when hes fighting, right now he looks kinda sad (the emotion, the model kicks ass!)

06-24-2002, 01:45 PM
Yes, double-handed lightning is certainly more menacing.

06-25-2002, 02:06 AM
Sure Chesire, I beleive this is what you want :)

Overall, I'm pretty happy with how he's coming out, the only problem I have is with the torso area, but perhaps I should see what I can do with the skin. Other than that I just have some minor tweaks to do before I uvmap the rest of him and begin weighting


CT :lightning

06-25-2002, 02:12 AM
Toonces, that rocks! Keep it up, you're doing great man!

06-25-2002, 04:53 AM
Still lookin good :) keep it up! Have you considered adding a rope or belt around his waist just for contrast between the lower and upper body. Also there seem to be some hard lines where the arms and torso connect, is there a way you can soften those (actually that might be solved when the skin is added but im not sure).


Darth Patronus
06-25-2002, 04:56 AM
:D :D Looks great!!!!

06-25-2002, 07:47 AM
Thanks guys :D

I wen't back and actually found a I had accidently snapped the wrong vert to the torso (from the waist) so that line at the waist is pretty much gone. As for the arms, I'm going to wait until I map the arms/torso before I mess with thoes lines, I think the skin will do the trick, but if not I shouldnt have a hard time getting rid of them

As for the belt, there definatly be a belt on the inside layer of his robe, I noticed that there was one there last week when I was going through RtoJ looking for sounds. I really love getting little details like that :) Right now I'm just trying to finish up the torso, to get as much of a flowing look as I can get before I skin it

Gettin Psyced :D
CT :lightning

06-25-2002, 10:00 AM
Excellent, Lord Toonces.
Everything is going as planned.

Are you going to take a day off to go to the Star Wars Magic Of Myth Exhibit?

You deserve the reward :lighting

Have you gotten some good sounds?
I'm going through Empire tonight to try and grab some ESB-Luke sounds.
I also plan to go through Jedi, because I've given Luke some new sounds, and I'd like to add to it.


06-25-2002, 10:26 AM
Toonces, flat shaded means no smoothing. Like it looks in the viewport, but rendered. Just add smooth to the stack click autosmooth then uncheck it and render while smooth is selected in the stack.

That way we can get a better idea of how the model is built.

Keep it up!

06-25-2002, 10:39 AM
Nah, no day off yet Nomad, but I'm going to definatly make time in the next week or so to do so :)

I haven't recorded anything yet for him, I just watched certian parts and took mental notes. I havent decided on any taunts yet, but thoes shouldnt be too hard to do. The grunts and groans will be a little tougher

Luke could definatly use diffrent sounds, the "I want you to let go of your anger" seems a little too timid for Luke

Cheshire, my bad, I wasn't quite sure what you wanted, I'll render some shots like that now

Getting sleepy again :o

CT :lightning

06-25-2002, 10:45 AM

Here you go :D

CT :lightning

06-25-2002, 02:23 PM
Oh man those shots make it look even better than the ones you posted earlier!!! amazing!!! *sighs and lies back content that this is one model being done well*

06-26-2002, 03:48 AM
Love the work you're doing!

I have a ROTJ Luke skin (gives him one glove, black belt) that someone else made, but I gave him:
"I'll never turn to the darkside. I am a Jedi Knight, like my father before me."

I took out "you have failed your highness" from the middle of the line.
The skin also came without a BOT, so I've attempted to add that feature, but I'm having a problem. There is some kind of conflict between Raven's Luke and the new skin. Luke-rotj as a BOT comes out like Kyle. I haven't figured out what I've done wrong yet. I do have it working so that YOU can use him without a flaw, but for a BOT opponent, you have to use the original Luke.

There are SO many great lines for the Emperor. Hard to choose from for only ONE taunt.


06-26-2002, 10:44 AM
heh, sounds pretty cool Nomad, It'll be cool to hear the new sounds. :)

I was really busy today so I didnt have alot of time to work on Palp, I did have a little fun with max and made this


I'm intrested to see what you guys think about it, I might start a new charecter based on it, or adjust it to fit around the Emperor. I think it might make a better robe for him. Let me know what you guys think :D

CT :lightning

Sounds Risky
06-26-2002, 12:03 PM
I would say use it for the current Palpatine, it looks more accurate to me.

06-26-2002, 01:55 PM
I find this model kinda weird. Neithier of The peaple used lightsabers and a force attack. (Except for the one in ROTJ) But Great Work Anyway!:)

06-26-2002, 02:15 PM
That's a great face! I almost didn't realize it wasn't skinned! :D

06-27-2002, 03:22 AM
It's a tough call Toonces.
The new robe looks great, but I don't have any problems with the original one either. The texture and skinning will make all the difference. Really it's something probably only you can answer, but I know sometimes you have to ask out loud.

It also depends on how easily you can swap cloaks.

Did you start this model based around the root.xsi?



06-27-2002, 05:59 AM
I've spent a few hours putting the cloak on him today, I'll post a pic in a little while with the results. I really liked the old robe too, I just wanted it to look a little more solid, more flowing :D

Yeah, it's definatly a tough call, and yes Nomad, I started the model around the root.xsi, but I've completely replaced every part minus the hands. Using that as my initial template was a great learning experence, I learn well visually and through trial and error.

Edit: (Figured this didnt warrent a new post)

Ok, It doesnt look that much diffrent than it did before, but I think I'm happy with the torso now. The sleeves and hood and torso from various angles appear to be one solid peice of fabric now with some overlaping.


A few minor tweaks and I'll declair the model final, and begin to skin and weight the mesh :D

CT :lightning

06-27-2002, 09:07 AM
lookin great man

06-27-2002, 09:25 AM
Looks good, Toonces. Only one bit of criticism - he's about 2 feet too tall. If you're going for Prequel-era Palpatine, he's probably only about 1 foot too tall, but by ROTJ, he's hunched down even more. Either way, though, too tall :) Otherwise, looking really good, especially the face!

06-27-2002, 09:36 AM
Something like this:


Chopped a bunch from the bottom of the robe, and brought the arms up.

06-27-2002, 09:43 AM
Wow this one keeps looking better and better. Great Job :D

06-27-2002, 11:29 AM
I agree with brad fu, too tall. "we are the knights who say.... NI!" lol. Great work on the new cloak and face, this looks incredible. remember that there really isnt much if any color in the face, just the eyes. and I think the cloak is either crazy-dark blue, or black, i know this is just to show us the model, just thinking out loud i guess-- or online i suppose :o .

06-27-2002, 11:52 AM
Bradfu, I know you've been to the Yoda thread... haven't you?
Anyway, you cannot alter the height of multiplayer models. All skeletons of all multiplayer models are identical.

The new cloak looks nice, it does have more flow. Are the sleeves still long (going towards the back in the latest pic)?



06-27-2002, 12:06 PM
yeah, the height cant be altered, but it will scale the model down. and if the model is "chopped" to the height bradfu suggests, then when scaled it will be proportionetally correct. otherwise he'll be a beanpole with a tiny head.

06-27-2002, 12:38 PM
BLUE STEEL!! Great icon Klorel :D

Thanks guys, that was my only real gripe with the model, that the torso didnt seem to flow enough to me, and yes nomad, the sleeves are still nice and long. :D I'll have to tweak them once I get them in game to ensure a nice effect :)

One thing I'll add to the height issue, when (crosses fingers) Sith/Kinja/K-man, or one of the great coders in the community discovers how to shrink our little green friend Yoda, I'll be able to shrink him (I'm invisioning sith-II raising Vader a foot also, that would rock)

I'm gonna uv map him tonight, and perhaps get a basic skin on him tommorow :)

CT :lightning

06-27-2002, 01:15 PM
I suggested it once before and I'll suggest it again:
Couldn't you just create a simple head over the actual skull as a separate surface(to be turned off), move the REAL head(the one we would see) down and forward to make a more accurate hunch, and do some creative weighting of the visible head to the skull/upper spine area to at least give the appearance that he is shorter? It would be work, but it would solve your height problem for the most part.

06-27-2002, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by inbredyokel
I suggested it once before and I'll suggest it again:
Couldn't you just create a simple head over the actual skull as a separate surface(to be turned off), move the REAL head(the one we would see) down and forward to make a more accurate hunch, and do some creative weighting of the visible head to the skull/upper spine area to at least give the appearance that he is shorter? It would be work, but it would solve your height problem for the most part.
If the game thinks that the invisible head is the "head" then it will not work correctly. It will be misaligned and his head will just sit there and possibly even some nasty stretching and unalignment will happen. Not a pretty site.

06-27-2002, 07:41 PM
Y'know Klorel, one of these days, you're just gonna have to do Magnum, too. We can't live with just Blue Steel. ;) :D

06-28-2002, 01:44 AM
is that face skin the final one? something looks really off about it to me. the mouth may be too large or the eyes too small, im not sure, it just looks strange to me. i think its the mouth, looks way too wide. its about twice as wide as his eyes are. also, id make him a little more pissed off looking. like the look when he is shooting the force lightning. thatd be cool.

06-28-2002, 03:57 AM
It's kinda hard to see in most of the shots, but his head is definatly bowed forward a bit, I also have his shoulders rounded quite a bit in the back. When I'm weighting him I may experement with moving his head a little more forward. I've watched the RotJ Emperor scenes quite a few times over the past few weeks, and I've noticed that he's got much less of a hunchback then I initially thought. Ian McDiarmid has a build very similar to my own, same rounded shoulders for the most part. (alough I'm signifigantly taller) He pretty much just leaned over a bit (for the cane scenes) Twards the end, when he's walking down the stairs, he's pretty much standing straight up. He gets the "hunchback" effect from tilting his head forward, and pointing his chin up and out (kinda uncomfortable)

I'm fairly confident that I'll be able to get an in-game effect that you guys will like :) I really wish I could use a custom skeleton and animations, I beleive I understand enough about how the Emperor moves that I could animate him very convincingly

IPHDTD: The face is definatly not final, I think it's the angle of the screen shots that makes his mouth look so prominant, that and I have it shaded in such a way that It sticks out and really makes it noticable. That will definatly be changed for the final :D

CT :lightning

06-28-2002, 01:28 PM
Man, I am so excited after reading the update on the Yoda Model!
Toonces, Glad to hear about the sleeves. I figured, but I just had to ask. Your model is really looking great. Even without seeing it in game or anything, it just seems to capture something about the Emperor's essence. I figure that you must have some kind of tap into his soul or something. :lightning

So, the news of the scaling coding is great. I wonder how long it'll be before it can be fully implemented.
LOL You may have even more work cut out for you now.
Regardless, the height of the Emperor in game is not a huge factor for me. With the right sounds and the right dark look, wonderful immerssion is extremely possible.

I'm tired, I've been working on some new sounds for Bespin-Luke for many many hours. Now I've got to make all the files a little louder, test it out some more, and it should be ready for distribution.
I want to try to do some 3D modeling. I have Gmax.
Toonces, Do you think you could give me a few pointers to get started? I can't even look at the root.xsi yet.
Anyway, if I could ask a few questions elsewhere, maybe you could give me a few answers. I just can't learn from Tutorials alone, and I need to be able to get things running before I can learn via the usual trial and error.


Shadow Angel
06-28-2002, 08:37 PM
THANK YOU for working on an Emperor Palpatine model! You are now officially the coolest guy on the JKII forums! You see, I'm a huge Palpatine fan. In fact, he's my favorite fictional character of all time. As you probably know, I'm in desparate need of an Emperor skin for multiplayer. Unfortunately, there just isn't an abundance of Palpatine skins on the Net (unlike all the Darth Mauls.) Sure, there's Dark DNA's, but that's just a black Reborn. Then, there's Rob H.'s, but the Tyrion model just doesn't work for the dark Emperor.

I am seriously looking forward to the completed product. May the Force be with you. Oh, and best taunt is probably, "Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the Dark Side."


06-28-2002, 10:14 PM
I second that taunt Shadow Angel!

Toonces, you are the MAN! Can't wait to see Mr. Dark Side skinned! :D

Also, not to change the subject, but did I hear that Kinja's Yoda team fixed the height issue in MP?!

:slsaber: :lightning

06-28-2002, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Vindicator
Also, not to change the subject, but did I hear that Kinja's Yoda team fixed the height issue in MP?!

you heard correctly. go check out a thread by sithlord-ii in the coding section. tchouky (sp?) figured it all out, and there are a couple of incredible screenies of yoda VS luke. made me speechless.

06-29-2002, 12:57 AM
Toonces, I noticed some things you need to look at on your model from the flat shaded pic. Anyways, I have some questions, and a ref pic to show you what Im talking about.

Anyways, did you model the cloak around another model? I ask because it looks like you have a sinlgle layer of polys wrapped around another model in a thin layer. If so this could be a real pain because the cloak will clip into the model. The cloak should probably be part of a solid model.

Also I noticed the polyflow. It appears to be a bit messy, and there aren't any "rows" such as how the verts are set up.

Anyways, here's a pic of Maul with Edged Faces so you can see what I'm talking about.


He's not the best ref pic to show off arms, but the rest is pretty solid. Notice the rows of verts and teh polyflow more than anything. You need to keep these in mind to get the best deformation.

Hope this helps.

And sorry if my bandwidth is hosed..........................

Shadow Angel
06-29-2002, 01:39 AM
I almost forgot. Addressing a couple of posts earlier about the mannequin of Palpatine at the Magic of Myth exhibit, I have a picture of it. It's pretty cool.


06-29-2002, 03:54 AM
heh, Shadow Angel and I think alike, that one tops my list for possible taunts :D I was also thinking about using the "Strike me down with all of your hatred" line, I'll have to put some serious thought into it.

Chesire, would you like to see a wireframe of the model? I'll PM you one if you'd like. I did innitially model the cloak over another model (a majorly adjusted root.xsi) but the torso and the hips have since been replaced by a much thinner "chunk" in the middle to give the illusion of having an inside layer to the robe (to save polys) The robe itself is segmented into the torso and hips. I'd like to know how BloodRiot pulled it off, I'm not sure if he still lurks around here, I'll have to try and get in touch with him.

There are some set rows, mostly on the hood, and the head. For the robe itself I pushed some verts around to get a wrinkly look, peraps I went too far. I'll send you a wireframe if you'd like to see it? I'd be intrested on your oppinion. :)

adilion & Vindy, yeah, I read about it yesterday and I must say, tchouy (sp) is a coding genious :D I can't wait for the code to be done, I will definatly scale the emperor down a bit as long as he doesnt mind :)

nomad (yes, I didnt forget about you :D) I'll send you a pm, I have like a million great links that can help you get started, and of cource I'll give you some tips :) I'm definatly no modeling guru (Chesire is much much better than I), but I'd be happy to share what I've learned in the last month or so :D

More to come guys, I'm working for the perfect texture for the robe, I hope I can do the Dark Lord justice :)

CT :lightning

06-29-2002, 05:25 AM
Ya, a WF would be great, but mostly what you need to look at are the areas that will bend alot. I'll try to get back sometime today if I can.

06-29-2002, 09:15 AM
Here's what I want to do in JKII...

Emperor Palpatine is walking along, hunched over on his cane, and out pops a flechette wielding stormtrooper. Palpatine raises one hand and zaps the stormtrooper with a pulse of Level 10 Force Lightning. (Seriously, even the level 4/9 Force lightning that Desann uses doesn't do Palpatine justice. I do hope that you can contact a coder or something to include a mod only for Palpatine, or something to that effect.)

Perhaps a Level 5/10 (5 or 10, since 4-9 are all the same strength) Force Lightning could be in pulses that knock the enemy to the floor and do tremendous damage (unlike the slow drain for level 3. A pulse that pushes the enemy hard would also make it less cheap.)

I don't know, but I want to see this Palpatine as realistic as possible.

Speaking of which, I'd love to see a scene in Ep. III of some powerful Jedi in Palpatine's room suddenly discover that he is a Sith. Palpatine lifts a finger, and the Jedi are smashed against the wall--instantly killing them. He then goes back to gazing out his window. :lightning:

06-29-2002, 09:35 AM
Right on cheshire, I was going to say the same thing. I just posted somthing along those lines in that thread of Skaters asking me to help him. Anyway, toonces, what cheshire was talking about is the key to making good clean models. The cool part about this is that once you get a grasp on this it just makes modeling so much easier:) Good luck man! Keep it up.

06-29-2002, 09:39 AM
Hoo haw, it'd be nice to see the emperor use a full powered lightning.

06-29-2002, 10:18 AM
Thanks Kinja, I'm going to work on cleaning him up. It's a learning process alright. I think the artist in me is getting a little too anxious to get into photoshop :D I'm a much better 2d artist than a modeler, but then again, I've spent most of my 23 years designing on a flat canvas. Thanks for the tips, I'm gonna do my best to get his verts into a uniform pattern

CT :lightning

06-29-2002, 04:04 PM

OK Toonces, Im not the best at explaining stuff, but check out this sketch. I just kind of show how the arm should be built. You'll have to work it out for deformation and create a sort of elbow in the back, but this is your basic polyflow you want.

What you have now, is going to be trouble when it's weighted, and you dont want to get that far before you realise it, so I hope it helps. If you don't quite catch on to what Im trying to show you just yell, and I'll try to get more detailed about it.

06-30-2002, 05:05 AM
That link is broken I think, but I think I understand polyflow now, I looked at your maul pic, as well as poked around at one of Sithlord-II's models. I started to uvmap him the other day, but I'll put that on hold until I clean him up a bit and check out how he deforms around the joints

CT :lightning

06-30-2002, 08:50 AM

Think I fixed the link. May as well have, since I'd already put the pic up. I'll leave it there for a few days if you like. Take the entire polyflow thing into consideration for the entire model as a whole, and ripp some pk3 files so you can see them im Modview too. I personally did that to see how people where overcoming some of the deformations of JK2.

Keep it up!

EDIT/ The white lines are just to show the skeleton, but I didn't draw in the double bones for the shoulder and forearm. You probably know what I mean.... Hopefully anyways.

06-30-2002, 09:20 AM
Cool, thanks, that's actually really helpful :D I studied Exar Kun (Thanks again Sith) a little bit and began to reconstruct the lower half of the model. What took me hours to do before I was able to finish in about 20 mins.

One thing I'm concerned with are the sleeves, I have a theroy that they are going to deform badly no matter what I do to them.

From what you've seen of the torso, should I reconstruct that part as well?

more to come :D

CT :lightning

06-30-2002, 10:14 AM
I think I've got it now, damn, I wish I had been doing it this way the entire time, It would have been so much easier. You were right Kinja, it makes the entire modeling process substantually less complex :D

Back to Max :D

CT :lightning

06-30-2002, 12:25 PM
[kicking myself]
WHYYY!!!!!!!!!!!! i wish i heard about this earlier. not only did i give my model's sleeves a baggy look, i also had to twist them with a space warp cause they would be hanging incorrectly in game......... i hope this doesnt totally screw me over. its your model that brought the sleeves issue to my attention though... thanks by the way. I too I think was too anxious to get into photoshop, i dont even know how many model tweeks i've done since skinning began. atleast the bones are being weighted by "experienced model boners" and not me. lol, sorry :p

btw. i'm gonna have to stick with blue steel for a while, Magnum is still a WIP, gotta tame the bull before you let it out of its cage.

great model toonces, its come a long way. as for the height issue, i know you can shrink him like yoda, but i was referring to proportion as was bradfu i believe. good luck.

06-30-2002, 01:59 PM
Just a quick update, I've reconstructed most of the model. Thanks again Chesire :D Your sketch clicked with my brain. I have a bunch of things still left to do, finish the sleeves, turn some edges, make some caps, ect...


Klorel, I'm glad I could help in some small way ;) I've been folowing your Windu thread for quite some time. His face is dead on, incredible! I cant wait to see him in action :D

As for Sidious, I'm attempting to get the proportions just right. I have his shoulders rounded quite signifigantly behind his head, I think it's just really difficult to see with that big hood covering his shoulders. I think what I'll do is pull the bottem of the hood in a little bit, and slope it over his neck and around his shoulders, perhaps that will show off his posture better.

Oh, one last thing, Cheshire, I noticed how strait your Maul model was in the wireframes you had posted on your website, but I've noticed that in game it appears that mauls chin is pointed down and strait out. (looks incredible, and makes him look like an even bigger badass than he is) My question is, how did you weigh his head to get an effect like that?

CT :lightning

06-30-2002, 07:05 PM
Looks great keep up the good work

07-01-2002, 01:15 AM
Iv been looking for pictures of this for a bit but havn't found any so I made my own, this shows how the hood looks at the back, notice how it points out in the non holo pick at the back and how its so big at the back it kind of folds over the robe in the hologram. I think the point isn't realy because the back of the hood is pointy ;p just because it fold over so much there.


07-01-2002, 07:46 AM
Thanks DarExc, that second shot inspired me :D I've begun to shape the hood in the back to bunch up


I've also hunched his neck forward like he is in RotJ, as well as brought his shoulders up to almost his neck. I am also going to make his shoulders more prominant.

I've got a favor to ask of one of you guys, what I really could use is a dead on side view of the Emperor. For what ever reason I cannot find a good detailed shot of him like that. I have been using the frame after the Luke-Palp exchange "Your over confidence is your weakness." "Your faith in your friends is yours!" He then turns to the side, and we get a great side shot from waist up. Let me know if any of you guys find a better and possibly brighter shot like that. I'm going for the whole nine, I want to get his body perfect, I'm getting there :)

CT :lightning

07-01-2002, 10:37 AM
Now Your Cooking With Gas!

Glad to see you got things heading in the right direction.

07-01-2002, 11:56 AM
This isn't to clear but it is from ROTJ. The only other time I could think of that you might get a clear view of his side is when he arrives and is walking beside Vader.


Here are a few more I made of his side, you can also see more of the back of the hood as well.


Notice in the 4th one how the folds at the front of the hood don't touch the robe they kinda stick out from the side view making a gap between them.

07-01-2002, 12:13 PM
Hey, Nice reworking!

What took me hours to do before I was able to finish in about 20 mins.

That's great. Sure, before you were spending a lot of time paying your dues, but now you have a greater understanding. And you can apply it.
It's great to see Cheshire helping you out. Gotta love a great community.
Anyway, from the little I know about modeling, I can see what you're driving at with the poly-flow. The rework is looking nice, and I hope that you can get it to move and deform the way that you want it to. The facets on the robe seem to make sense to me, I can't quite explain it other than it looks like it has rythm, or symmetrical sense... I guess "flow".

Good Luck, don't forget about the Museum Exhibit (It ends July 7th) and when you can take a bit of a breather (probably not until after this model) I've got to see if I can pick your mind a little bit. Cheshire, you're Way out of my league. Right now, I'm just an artist that wants to see what I could do (as a complete noob with 3D modelling).

I don't seem to have any good side pics of The Emperor either.
The only one I have from ROTJ is the same one posted above. I couldn't post it anywhere though, so good job DarkExc. I'm not sure that the design of Sidious's hood in TPM is the same as ROTJ, but regardless, those are some good ref pics of the hood's folds and creases. I know that The Emperor's hood falls and folds (loosely) over the front of his shoulders.

Best of luck



07-01-2002, 01:20 PM
DarExc! Your a total life saver :D Thanks for the shots! I've almost got the hood shaped correctly now. I pushed some verts around to get that gap look. It's going to be intresting to unwrap like that, but I'll figure it out. The shots will be great for his torso as well, should be able to nail the proportions now :)

The arms are going to be kinda tricky, the way they blend into the robe, it might be hard to animate properly, I'll have to experment when I get that far

(Did this while sitting here typing this message)

I still have to shape the back of his shoulders/back of neck region, but the hood is almost finished now :D

Nomad, you can pick my brain anytime :) I'm sure I can answer most of your basic to moderate modeling questions. Cheshire, Sith, Kinja, they are the real experts here, I'm just trying not to screw up much :p I didn't forget about that Exhibit, I'm going to schedule time later this week. I'll be sure to bring a good camera, I want to recreate that thick cloth texture that is on the robe. :)

Oh, thanks again Cheshire for that sketch you make, looking at your wireframe, then seeing the sketch made something click :)

Really moving now :D
CT :lightning

07-01-2002, 02:07 PM
Assorted Palpatine pics:


BTW, it's not my site.

Lucko Mabri
07-01-2002, 02:36 PM
Now thats one good hood :D

-Lucko Mabri

07-01-2002, 03:29 PM
Toonces, I know that those guys are the experts :) I'm not close to being worthy or ready to bother them with my questions,
but now by the looks of it, I shouldn't be bothering you either! :p
You keep getting better and better.

Anyway, I'll bug you soon enough. Right now... I don't want to disrupt the roll your on. Keep going, man!

Tchouky's Mod is amazing! You think the Emperor's .9 or less? We''ll have to do the math and get it right on.
(.86 -.2 [for hunching]) *(10 for ultimate Sith Power) = :lightning


07-01-2002, 10:58 PM
Excellent, the hood looks great, you sure have come a very long way with this! I find it hard to believe you havn't been making models for a long time. Now for my next bit of nit picking ;p, the clasp. I gave you the link to this before but might as well put it up for referance again.


and also this I took myself of the size of the clasp on the robe and where it sits.


It looks as though its a bit larger than his mouth when its in a stait line (if that'll help) and it sits under the folds of the front of the hood at the top corners. Also it is in the shape of a rectangle but it bends inwards a few times on each side (if that is possible to do). Another thing I would sugest is to keep the robe in the closed position because if it doesn't flow it would look kind of strange and I think he would close it (like Sidious keeps it) when in battle. If you do close it just keep the line down the centre of the robe like Sidious robe has, you can see it in the above picture. If you keep it open I will help you with that look later =)

Sounds Risky
07-02-2002, 12:22 AM
I did the math, and Palpatine would be 0.95 in mulitplayer.

07-02-2002, 12:28 AM
My god, this is definately another must have when completed this is so ****ing good!!!!!!!!!! Great job you the man!!!!!!!!!:lightning

07-02-2002, 06:57 AM
You guys are too much :D I'm just glad somebody other than me is actually intrested in this project, keeps me going :)

Keep on nitpicking DarExc, I'm going to try my best to get him as accurate as possible, and there always seems to be some little minute detail that I miss, it's extremely helpful. I moved the clasp up just under the hood, looks like it's in the right position now. I made that rectangle template in about 30 seconds just so I'd have something there, it's definatly not the final shape. When I get to the exibit this week I'll take note of the shape and general depth (not to self, bring sketchbook)

I'm almost finished with shaping his back, I used a still frame from RotJ (that exchange I was talking about earlier) I'll post some shots when I get a little further.

Found a funny little pic over on the AtoC forums :)
without a doubt a fake, but cool none the less (note to Lucas, give Palp a sabre next movie, and have him fight Windu)

I'm also toying around with the idea of including a sabre model, I found this somewhere (I forget where)
It's from the EU I understand, and belonged to one of Palps clones (Or host body, I'm not 100% clear on that)

I was thinking of perhaps just making up a cool design. If someone wants to model that saber, or has a cool idea for one for the Dark Lord, give me a shout, I'd love to be able to include a badass saber with the model.

CT :lightning

07-02-2002, 08:18 AM
This is the pic of the clasp from Ep. I posted earlier: http://www.magma.ca/~lcauley/Temp/Sidclasp.JPG

But if you look at a pic from ROTJ, it appears to be lower: http://www.dmeb.net/speb/foryoureyes/Emperor04.jpg

Feel free to look at that site I posted earlier... they have lots of Palpatine pictures.

07-02-2002, 09:46 AM
It is in about the same place, the folds still go over the corners in one pic. One thing though is that Sidious and Palpatine robes are aranged different. Personaly I prefer Sidious robe but thats just me. The new robes for the Jedi are different as well because if you look at obiwan in ANH the top of his robe is pointed.

If you notice the old Emperor robes were very basic and didn't even have a very big hood. I am certain the new robes will be used when they redo the Palpatine scene in ESB.


07-02-2002, 10:18 AM
Here's where I am now with the upperbody, ignore the pointy arms, I havent touched them yet

The robe in RotJ is extremely close to the one in TPM, I put (damn, WinDVD wont let me capture grr) DarExc pointed out the main diffrence, the robe, the clasp, it sits lower.

Right now I have that in the position it is in TPM. His robe doesn't have the point at the top of the head like Obi's did in ANH, but I beleive in both movies (RotJ and TPM) the hood is shaped the same way, the other big diffrence seems to be that the folded over hood slopes further down his back in RtoJ. I think I'll keep the hood like Sidious has it in Phantom and AotC, I just dig the style :D

It's too bad I cant take this screeny I'm talking about, it's at 1hr28:16 in RotJ. Palp is in the exact same position as the screenshot below.

If I can get windvd working I'll cap it

Still adjusting, looking more and more like final :) Thanks guys

CT :lightning

Grets Sirob
07-02-2002, 10:45 AM
Now, who could I replace.......

Looks good:thumbsup:!
Can't wait to own it(and the bot:D)

:emperor: I shall rule the galaxy.

07-02-2002, 12:54 PM
Here are 3 images I got from around 1hr 38min because the time you said for me was a rebel seen *YUK* ;p. Hope these are what you wanted cause I tore my shirt pulling the VCR out the rack for these =) but Sidious will be worth it. I think the 3rd one is the clearest but you can't expect much out of VHS. Let me know when you are ready to move on to the lower part of the robes or where ever you are heading next. I still prefer the look of Sidiouses robes as well =). Also I looked at him and the clasp is in the same spot its just hard to notice in MANY scenes but if you look hard enouph you will see it. In a few shot maybe the front where it sits just get wieghed down a bit if it isn't there.


07-02-2002, 01:28 PM
Nice job DarExc,

Those screenies pretty much match up the camera angle of your lates model screenshot, Toonces.
I do believe that's what you were looking at :lightning

It's nice and subtle, but I can see the slumped shoulders and the curve near the neck, just barely, beneath the hood. Very Nice looking Toonces! It's really matching up with those shots.

The real difference in the cloaks is that in the prequels it's nice and new. It's still stiff in places, where in ROTJ it's basically old rags. Yes, I'm looking forward to using this model.
Notice how we're not even rushing you at all. (unlike some other threads) :lightning
Take your time... slowly build your power... Out of the spot light... silently take over...
:lightning :lightning

wow sorry for all the lightnings... I was going to edit them out, but this page is almost done anyways. I'll leave them in All their glory.

07-02-2002, 04:10 PM
heh, building my power ;)

You nailed the pic I was looking at, I hid the windvd window in the bottem corner when I was doing the hood/back earlier, now I can put it in as a viewport background


That second shot really doesnt do the model justice, I think it's the shader I was using, totally flattened it out. Anyway, that's where I am now, I might have the ends of his shoulders too low, perhaps I'll raise them a bit. I'm going to try and finish up the shape and size of the robe, just the torso and hips, then uvmap them, I can make adjustments once I get a basic skin on it, I just need to put something on it to get a little depth. As for the arms, they are going to be tricky, I might have to completely weight them in order to adjust them too much further

It's like 4am here, bedtime ;)

CT :lightning

07-02-2002, 04:14 PM
looks really good :D good job so far man how much longer till release :confused:

07-02-2002, 11:22 PM
Toonces, I haven't gotten a chance to read all the new posts and look at all the new screens, but I know you are doing great. (I'm leaving to go get my driving permit now hehehe). If you have AOL or AOL instant messenger, message me at LINKER2K2 tonight. If not, my email addy is LiNuXProggy@cs.com I'd really like to talk to you.

07-02-2002, 11:53 PM
Your hatred has made you powerful...

Now, fulfill your destiny and KEEP IT GOING!

<This has been a shameless BUMP and MAD PROPZ session>

Toonces, did I mention you rock? :D

:slsaber: :lightning

07-03-2002, 03:41 AM
*nomad jumps up and down like a giddy, little school boy*

Can't wait to see it with skins!
Those screens deserve another :lightning

07-03-2002, 07:05 AM
(Blush) You guys are too much, did I mention you all rock too :D

Alright, Time for a bigtime pic fiesta, I feel the model is almost complete, I just think It's missing something, perhaps (and I asked Sithlord-II and he agreed) it just needs a good texture to show depth.

Let me know what all you guys think about the proportions, the size of the robe, anything really that you think is missing or a little off. I'm shooting for his body size/shape from Phantom Menace, with just a few minor details from the RotJ robe (the crease on his back, just looks cool)


Two notes though, I keep mentioning it for some of the newer people on the thread, sorry if I sound like a broken record ;) The arms are going to undergo major tweaks once I get the model weighted, so it looks good ingame, (but still tell me if you think the shape isnt right in the front) second, the skin on the face isnt even close to finished, which is minor, but I havent shaded his head yet to give off that mysterious look that Sid is famous for :D

The next pics will have textures I promise :D We're almost there guys!

"Jumping has made you powerful my young nomad.....er, or was that hate? The Dark side has made me senile" ;)

CT :lightning

07-03-2002, 07:10 AM
WOW! Very Nice!

07-03-2002, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Toonces
The arms are going to undergo major tweaks once I get the model weighted, so it looks good ingame,
so the sleeves wont look silly when his arms are at his sides? :D

07-03-2002, 09:18 AM
Ok, this is for extreem detail, the folds in the robe. As you can see the are in the same spot most of the time(near the arms and on the sleeves), just to let the extra robe out. Also there are a few folds in the hood as you can see. I also must once again urge you to close the robe as the two layered robe isn't a god idea for game play. If you close the robe be sure to include the line where it looks like his robe opens down the centre.


Also notice how in your model his robes come down like a triangle but they are more rounded here. ITs kind of like a tube or something. They don't even come out that much though either.


Lastly the boots, Im sure you will have to animate boots under the robes so one thing to remember is that they used German Riding boots for the Sith. If you want to look at them those can be found on ebay if need be.

Woops I made the links wrong it should be shap not sape ;p. They should work now.

07-03-2002, 09:28 AM
Alright Toonces, I'm not posting this to make you feel bad or to hurt your feeling or in any way offend you or your work. I just want this model to be as good as it can be. First of all, the torso is too wide. It needs to be more of a bell shaped (looks nice just make it smaller on the sides). I took your screen and redid a little bit of it (just in windows Paint hehe) just to give you a small idea or my perspective of sidious.
Also I noticed a polygon sticking out in that same screen...
Now I know how hard it is to do that kind of stuff (mainly because it's difficult to get to). I had that same problem with Nikto when I was extending his neck and making it smaller, and yeap it was a pain in the ass to get fixed (took me hours to get one poly like that out). Again I am in no way worthy to disrespect your work, I jsut want it to be as great as possible.

07-03-2002, 09:49 AM
hehe Link thats what I thought as well, 2 great minds think alike =), it wont hurt his feeling he wants the cirisism and when he gets it we can sure see what he is capable of. This is turning out to be agreat model.

07-03-2002, 09:55 AM
Yeah, I'll definatly remember to keep the seam there. I think I'll close the robe, I can always experement with it later if I change my mind.

Thanks the the rear view shots :) I've pulled the corners of the robe out a little bit to give a little depth to the robe. All the little folds will be done with the skin, it should look pretty cool when I'm done with it. :D

T3rr0r, I'm gonna do my best :D I've got some ideas about how to animate the sleeves. At worst when your standing with your hilt and the saber off they might look a little strange, but durring combat I'm pretty comfident that They'll look cool :)

I'm UVmapping right now, I'm not all that great at mapping, so if it looks wierd when I'm done I'll find some help

edit: just saw your post Link-er, It's all good, I'm definatly intrested in all suggestions :D I had his body tapered in like you have it there at first, I brought it out maby a little too much.

I pulled his waist in just a touch. To make it really look like a robe I can't taper it quite like you have it, I still have to line up the shoulder joint. I pulled it in a bit, he looks less like a fatass now :) I'll post a shot of it once I finish maping and you guys can tell me what you think :)

Oh, that little poly you noticed was a tag. I havent re-adjusted them since I rebuilt the model, oops :p

edit #2: Just saw your edit DarExc. The shape of the robe at the bottem is that way because of the raven skeleton, It'll definatly be strait in the game. I'll do a quick search for thoes boots right now, thanks for the tip :D

CT :lightning

07-03-2002, 10:04 AM
Recheck out the last 3 pictures in my previous post, I fixed the link =).

07-03-2002, 10:08 AM

Nice boots :)

Sidshape is gold btw DarExc, just the exact shot I needed :D

I'll have a few more shots up for you guys asap

07-03-2002, 12:34 PM
Don't close the robes!
It looks to me like you are creating an Emperor of ROTJ just a little bit more than a Darth Sidious of the Prequels. Sure you can re-skin it and make both, but The Emperor as seen in ROTJ definitely has his robe slightly open in the front with his under robes and belt benath... like you've had the model looking.
Just my vote anyway, for what ever it's worth.
I know you've said you want to get all the little details right, so you're going to have to make some decisions one way or the other.
Looking forward to the new screens... thanks for all the preview pics, I'm enjoying watching it's development.

Good luck mapping too.


07-03-2002, 05:11 PM
I was really tired last night so I didnt really touch the model, finished the uvmap on the torso and hip sections of the robe, should have a basic texture on it soon.

It's funny, everybody is split on what I should do with the robes, even here in my house :) It's such a minor detail that I've decided that I'm going to try both and see what happens. I'm also going to do more than one face, the RotJ face you guys have already seen an early version of, and the younger Palp with normal colored skin like the prequels. Should look cool :D

Back to sleep, I've still got a few hours before I have to get up :o

CT :lightning
www.drivingcatstudios.com :cheers:

07-03-2002, 06:35 PM
just wondering.......

07-03-2002, 11:05 PM
Excellent idea! Here is a picture of Sidiouses face.


07-04-2002, 09:58 AM
heh, I figured you'd like that DarExc :D As much as I love the face from RotJ, his face in Phantom and AotC has an element of mystery that I would like to be able to pull off with the model, hopefully that skin will do it :D

To answer your question nucular_jedi, I'm in the process of skinning as I type, then I will weight the model and put him in game for testing and adjustment. I really can't promise a release date because as soon as I do I'll run into some huge problem that will push that date back so for right now all I can say is soon :)

Sorry I can't be more specific then that, but I hope when I'm finished you guys will all love him, and you'll consider him worth the wait :D

I'll try and post some skinned shots as soon as I have something I am happy with

Plenty of goodness to come
CT :lightning

07-05-2002, 01:42 AM
Yay, let's get this model out already!

07-06-2002, 10:32 AM
Be sure when you skin it to get all the stitching details of the robe, notice in some of those pictures the little squares or what ever that make up the robe, the texture of it or what ever you call that. Im not a clothing expert as you can no doubt tell ;p

07-06-2002, 12:53 PM
I've got a bunch of refrence images now, I'm even thinking of experementing with a hair engine (see chewie model, alough much much smaller hairs) to simulate a little bit of fuzz. on the robe :D

I've got him completely skin mapped, and will start weighting verts tonight. Next screenshots will be ingame shots (with a basic skin) look for them within the next few days

CT :lightning

07-06-2002, 01:03 PM
You are serving the Empire well. *salutes*

Two things: The Magic Of Myth Exhibit ends on Sunday, just in case you're not aware. I'm not trying to push the issue for you to go, but it was one of the best experiences, so I highly recomend it.

After the almighty Emperor, can you make a Holik model so that we can chop him up into bits? Or actually we could blast him into charcoal with Sith Lightning :lightning


Weapon X
07-06-2002, 02:27 PM
haha! i've never been tempted but i'm gonna put at least one spam on as many posts as possible!
I'm sorry:(

07-06-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Klorel
hmmm. i wouldnt be so sure. lucas has contradicted himself before with his strange twists.... c3po built by anakin, Quigon, not yoda instructed obiwan and such. besides, there needs to be a really crazy twist in this one. one that will make all the fans shocked. the emperor seems like an obvious answer. palpatine could have a twin, who knows, dont merge the two just yet, call me crazy, but lucas hasn't laid it all out in plain daylight yet. hey, maybe sidious is anakin's father.... "there was no father"... well if you ask me, shmi is pretty weakminded >>
:sithm: [waves hand]~ "you did not just sleep with dark lord sidious" ....
:elaine: ~"i did not just sleep with dark lord sidious"

hope to see a model update soon! :D

hehe.... sidious IS anakins father.... wait and see.... (Im not joking)


07-08-2002, 09:40 AM
Yeah baby, update time, Ok, I've got him into modview now and he's deforming much better than I expected, especially considering I've never weighted a model before. I'm confident that he'll be ingame with a basic skin by tommorow. (tonight if I have time) I'll post some ingame alpha shots as soon as he's in game :)

nomad, do you mean Bobby Holik? I went around to starwars.com and poked around and found nothing so I assume that's who you meant :) My bud Craig would love a Holik model to cut into peices, he cant beleive he'd go to the Rangers of all teams

Mr.EFF, I wouldnt be too suprised if that actually was the case, considering how powerfull the Emperor is (he made Vader look like an Amature in RtoJ) and how intune with the force the Skywalker family seems.

I was actually thinking the other day about the "Prophecy" of the one who would bring "Balance" to the force. (forgive me if this has been discussed before) Could it be that instead of Anakin bringing balance to the force, could it perhaps be Palpatine? I guess it depends on how you define "balance." Assuming that he revived the Sith, he would in theroy "Balance" the force, by providing an avenue for the Dark Side to flow. (equal parts Dark and Light) It just seems that of all the Jedi, Dark, light, grey (heh) ect... that he could be the most powerful of all Jedi. Somewhere on starwars.com it says that his body was ravaged because he had an enormous amount of power

Just a theroy, I'm sure this has been debated before

CT :lightning

Sounds Risky
07-08-2002, 09:53 AM
Actually, George has mentioned what Balance of the Force means. It means the absence of the Dark Side. So yes, Anakin is in fact the chosen one.

As for the model, it sounds like he is coming along just fine.

07-08-2002, 12:27 PM
I've got him into modview now and he's deforming much better than I expected, especially considering I've never weighted a model before.

That is great news Toonces.
That makes me pretty excited actually. We could use some nice robes in this game.

I'm sorry I made you poke around at starwars.com heh, I was talking about Bobby Holik LOL!
I've been trying to figure out who it is in your avatar pic... but I can't make it out. Albelin? Oliwa? Neiwendiek? The pope?

I know my brother and I had a theory that Palpatine (With his ultimate powers) orchestrated Anakin's "miraculous" birth to make him appear as the one that will bring balance, only to control and turn him... of course not realizing (due to his overconfidence) that he was actually creating the one that WOULD bring balance and ultimately seal his fate. Although it would happen later through the bravery of Anakin's son.

Not that we believe that to be the case. We just kind of liked the way it worked. Just our little theory, but I'm not so sure that we'll ever have that stuff explained in the movies.
I don't care... what ever Lucas wants to do... he's earned my respect :)

For those that think they KNOW...
Attempt unlearning what you have "learned"...
Life can be much more interesting that way.

Feel free to keep the updates coming Toonces :lightning


07-08-2002, 04:29 PM
heh, I figured you mean't Holik, it's all good though, I was looking at pictures for a possible new project :)

I'll most likely be content with wherever Mr. Lucas decides to take episode III. I've heard your brothers theroy a bunch of times, as long as it can be explained in the movie without being silly, it's all good. :)

Oh, and that picture is actually of me, from a charity game a couple years ago

The model is now in alpha, with an extremely basic skin. I've found a few minor problems (flipped cap faces, a couple ugly deformations, a big line between the back and right arm) but for the most part he's deforming well. He's also missing his inner robe in these shots, so you can see through him in the middle. (inner section is in progress) The inner robe will be Emperor Palpatine only, Darth Sidious will most likely have a completely, or mostly closed robe (and a diffrent glm)


Thoes are my 5 favorate shots, there are about 21 total in the alpha gallery on my website incase you guys want to see a few more shots :)

I have to adjust the bottom half of the robe a bit, make it a bit bigger in some places. The lightning seems to shoot out from the wrong place as well. (a little too far down and too the left) Backstab works properly though ;)

CT :lightning

07-08-2002, 08:57 PM
looking great so far, toonces. keep up the good work!

07-09-2002, 12:45 AM
Don't forget to do a Sidious skin with normal coloured skin! =) Also can you post a picture of the model in that model viewer so I can see it a little better, the ingame is a bit dark for me. Other than that I am thrilled to see this working and in game.

07-09-2002, 12:56 AM
Is there any highlights where there are folds in the robe because I just see solid black?

07-09-2002, 01:07 AM
heh, don't worry DarExc, I got the Sidious face coming. (normal colors and all :D ) I'll take a few shots in modview for you, so you can see him closer up. One of the things that the Q3 engine loves to do is wash out the colors quite a bit, so I have to darken the highlights on his face up some.

morphius, I'm definatly going to highlight the robe, it's going to look much diffrent once I get a decent looking skin on him. I just wanted to get him ingame so I could work on a few modeling issues before I started painting my nice patterns. :) I simply applied a very dark blue color layer, and added some stock burlap texture with photoshop. I'll begin painting the pattern (the real patern) sometime today, which will include highlights for the various folds and creases in the robe.

Much more to come :D

CT :lightning

Triiiple Threat
07-09-2002, 09:32 AM
The alpha shots look good, however I was wondering about the robe animations. It looks as if his robes spilt while walking as if it was a pair of pants not a robe.


This might be the inner robe thing you were talking about but not sure.

07-09-2002, 09:42 AM
Nice to see the progress :D
If the ship in the alpha13 pic was an Imperial Shuttle... that would be priceless.
Looks sweet so far. Thanks for the pics.

Any major clipping going on that you can't figure out yet? Or is the robe moving pretty much as you figured?
I'm really eager to see how this robe turns out, because I would love to try making another robed model myself. So details about what problems you have or how you've avoided having them would be much appreciated.

About the avatar, that's funny, I just assumed it was a Devil... but then again... you are close to the darkside :lightning

I was only kidding about making Holik. I'm only into Star Wars characters for this game. If you are looking for ideas... I've got lists of 'em.

Did you make it to the exhibit? With the work you've done, I'm guessing "No".

Great job so far, man.


Oh! One other thing. You mentioned that you used a dark blue for this initial skin (which I know is just to check him out with in game -yadda, yadda, yadda), but I was just wondering if for the final skin you were thinking about using a blue shade, because his robe is definitely black. It just gets the blue shading from the lighting through his window and such.
I think we've all talked about this earlier in this thread LOL

I love this stuff

07-09-2002, 01:27 PM

And rock on Toonces, the Master of Disaster is looking better and better!

:slsaber: :lightning

07-09-2002, 03:07 PM
Triiiple, That's exactly what I meant, I have not added the inner layer of the robe as of yet, or capped the bottem of the robe, so you can see through parts of the robe. I'm still playing with the weights, right now I have the bottem of the robe set up almost like a model with pants. I'm going to experement with some other areas. He actually looks rather good the way I have it now, the robe moves with his feet, with no cliping at all, it moves quite a bit like a real robe, with the exception of certian moves. (jump) Take a look at BloodRiots (and of cource Asbath) Robed Tyrion model, it moves for the most part the exact same way :)

nomad, I actually thought of the same thing when I saw the shot, I just need an imperial shuttle prefab now :)

The robe has come out much better than I thought it would with the first weighting. When I exported the model again today with some bug fixed (fixed all the normals, got the head lined up right, and got rid of all the visable segmentation lines) the robe looked proportinally correct (the bottom has to come out some though) to me, and much to my supprise the sleeves almost look perfect now. (medium sabre stance really looks the best, the sleeves are perfect, and he's bigtime hunched over) I was expecting to have to tweak the hell out of them, but with the exception of adding caps to the sleeves, and some other positional tweaks I'm going to make, they look great :D

Unfortunatly I couldn't make it up to the exibit on time, I was a little too busy to get up there. I've heard that the Smithsonian has the same (or simmilar) exhibit, and I might actually be able to get down there sometime this summer.

Oh, the color I used on the robe was R 0 G 0 B 2, so it's essentially black. For the CTF blue skin, I'm going to try and match the color of the reflected light in some of thoes shots. The main robe will definatly be black, with some highlights of cource ;)

Time for some zzz's

CT :lightning

07-09-2002, 03:14 PM
Now your gettin there Toonces!

Keep it up!

07-09-2002, 06:28 PM

awesome model you've created toonces. it took a bit getting used to the idea of this guy wielding a saber, but i REALLY dig it now.

and in all honesty, i don't have anything to say ... i am literally speechless. keep up the great work!

07-10-2002, 11:19 AM
nomad: It's the Lady Luck

07-11-2002, 07:17 AM
Any updates?

07-11-2002, 07:28 AM
In those in-game shots, I notice that his face is quite deformed. Although he was pretty ugly in the movie, he wasn't quite THAT ugly.

Also, the cloak isn't too good. It looks like just a black cutout on the screen.

Perhaps you could add some more shades into it, like some grey, and give it some texture it would be better.

07-11-2002, 07:30 AM
heh, I was just about to post one DarExc. I'm almost finished with the Sidious face. Just the lower section of the head is visable. I'm getting close, I'll post a shot of his face soon.

The model for the most part is done, I just have to skin it now. I've almost finished with the faces and hands, but I havent really started on the robe yet. I'm not so great with cloth.

I'm also having a little problem with the mp icon. For some reason I get an icon on the main menu, and can even use him as a bot in mp games. The problem is that his icon seems to be missing in the avatar select tab IN game. I have to type model palpatine to get him to load, wierd

I'll try and get a couple shots of his face up asap

CT :lightning

07-11-2002, 08:04 AM
Elkin, If you read a few posts up you'd understand why it looks that way. I haven't put more than a very basic skin on him. It looks like a black cutout because that's basically what it is. It's an extremely basick skin, just color, that's it, this will change.

As for the face you see now, that's not finished yet, but it's close. I think I have a pretty good likeness so far, and have received countless compliments on it, but you cant please everyone

CT :lightning

07-11-2002, 09:13 AM
sidious, anakin's father? *shiver*
:lsduel: :emperor: family reunion

07-11-2002, 02:19 PM
You've got me, that's a theroy

Alright, time for an update :) The model is officially in beta as of tonight. I spent most of my time tonight in max fixing some modeling bugs. The model is now 90% complete. All surfaces have been modeled. He'll be 100% as soon as I realign some tags, and play with the weights on the back of the hood. With his rounded shoulders, the hood clips a bit too much, I have to find another bone to weight it to.

I added some minor highlighting to the robe, it's no longer a "black cutout" as was described earlier, it now has recognisable folds, as well as a cloth pattern that I beleive it close to the actuall robe.

It's go time, I'm going to try my hardest to get this model out asap. Most of what's left to do now is skining :D

Shots to come tommorow, (I promise) and bright ones too DarExc ;)

I'll keep everyone posted

CT :lightning

07-12-2002, 02:44 AM
The pink elephants love beta!!

Great news, Toonces! I can't wait to use my favorite hero :lightning

:holosid: I sent you a PM yesterday to ask about some modeling steps. I still can't find any info on how to import the root.xsi!
(I've been working on two different musical recording projects, messing around with Gmax, and learning how to juggle... seriously)

Are you good as far as sounds are concerned?
Let me know if you need any help on that end, as I've done some work on other models in that area.

Looking forward to the next update too. This has been a great thread :)



07-12-2002, 03:47 AM
Good job Toonces, another top notch classic Star Wars character model. I love Jedi Knight II!

07-12-2002, 08:05 AM
Heh, thanks Xyphox :D

A little mini update, no new screenies yet, but tonight when I get home for sure. I've teamed up with nomad to help with the sounds. This'll speed up the project signifigantly :) He also has a digital copy (I think that's what he said) of RotJ so we'll be able to get higher quality sounds. I'm going to try and go through TPM tonight and take notes for Darth Sidious. I'd love to have completely diffrent sounds for him, hopefully we'll be able to pull that off, will definatly add more charecter to the models :D

Let me know if you guys have any good suggestions for Sidious, I've got a pretty good Idea about the Emperors sound pack, but not for Sidious

I hate to say this, because I might end up jinxing myself, but as long as we can get the sounds ready in time, I beleive we're looking at a release date sometime next week. I work good under pressure, so perhaps seting a soft release date is a good idea :)

CT :lightning

07-12-2002, 08:13 AM
If I had a scanner that didn't require inserting the paper into it, I'd send you two cool pictures from the New Essential Guide to Characters...

Shadow Angel
07-12-2002, 08:18 AM
Hey Toonces,

Do you need Palpatine lines for a voice pack? I think this link will help. It has pretty much every Episode I Senator Palpatine and Darth Sidious line in .wav format. It also has a lot of Emperor lines from ROTJ (including my fav, "Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the Dark Side.") No Episode II, though.


You might find this to save you a lot of time. I don't know. Tell me if they work or not, eh?

07-12-2002, 01:03 PM
Thanks Angel :) It gave me a good idea on what I could use for Sidious. Unfortunatly thoes wav files are much too low quality to come with the model, but thanks for the link :D

Here's a new pic, I havent really touched the faces yet, thoes I'll do last. I did add plenty (maby too much) highlights twards the bottem of the robe


Sorry the pics are so big, I wanted to get them up fast and they were a little inpromptu (I didnt intend to take any shots)

CT :lightning

07-12-2002, 01:06 PM
Nice very very nice! Unfortuneately I'm using crap_comp_01 so the screenies are really really dark...don't worry about the size of the pics -- any update is a good update!

Great job! Keep up the good work!

07-12-2002, 09:44 PM
Nice model, but yes a little bit too many highlights at the bottom. It makes it look uneven.

07-13-2002, 11:14 AM
Time for a quick update. I was able to work quite a bit on the skin this morning (no face work yet, soon) I took some time and put up some new shots, hopefully they are a little brighter this time (Let me know if they are still too dark DarExc)


There are still a couple of modeling flaws to work out, every time I update the skin I seem to find a new one. Right now the hands are the problem, they bleed through the sleeve a little and dont grip the saber right. Other than that he's coming along nicely :D

When I get home tonight I'm going to work like crazy :)

CT :lightning