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ArtifeX
05-29-2002, 12:22 PM
I've put up a post on my site that marks the end of my JK2 gaming. Give it a read and let me know what you guys think:

http://www.oculis.org/asc/guides/retirement.html

I won't repeat anything it says here, but the skinny of it is that I don't think this game's current incarnation is worth my time anymore.

Ferox
05-29-2002, 12:24 PM
im kinda getting burnt out on the game myself. more for playing it too much then any idiot players or patch stuff. although the idiot players are a small factor.


neverwinter nights and shadowbane beta come out soon :P.

NeoTrunks
05-29-2002, 12:33 PM
If you played that game for fun and not to just get points or rise to the top, the game would still be fun. But if you whore 2 or 3 different moves or combos, sure, you'll get bored fast.

FatalStrike
05-29-2002, 12:54 PM
I said it before and I'll say it again v1.03 ruined the game. It leaves saber throw and back swings as the only viable combat options!

I'll stick with the few v1.02 servers that are left.

ArtifeX
05-29-2002, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by NeoTrunks
If you played that game for fun and not to just get points or rise to the top, the game would still be fun. But if you whore 2 or 3 different moves or combos, sure, you'll get bored fast.

If you don't stick to those tactics, then you'll just get your ass handed to you on a plate over and over again by people who are willing to use them. That'll make you bored really fast too.

PrhOOt
05-29-2002, 01:08 PM
Greetings, non-intelligent lifeforms! I come from a distant server, just so I can make this:

;P

MrCrusher
05-29-2002, 01:47 PM
Sorry to see you go... I like reading your stuff.

I only play non force, as force powers add a whole slew of exploitable tactics. There seems to be better balance with pure sabre, no throw, no pull, backstabs are far less effective (backstab is actually well balanced when dueling NF), sometimes force jump can be added in, but there are those good enough to exclusively kick lesser players to death (read exploit).

This game is so complex and has really never been done before. I'm sure in time with mods, expansions, maybe even patches the bugs will be worked out.

Try playing for fun, not just to win all the time. Try to kill with the sabre using outragious combos or flashy wall jump attacks etc.

When strategy boils down to only a few tactics for a win then try not to win for the sake of winning. Win because you were able to pull off that outragous combo and had fun doing it. :)

You may not win as often but when you do win you'll sure piss off the power-move spammers.

Master saberist never retire they just change their alias and haunt the game community. ;)

Good luck

Dark Begger
05-29-2002, 01:49 PM
well Artifex..you do not know who I am, but I have been watching your ASC promoting around these forums ( not recently). Anyways, I must say, although I did not agree with the ASC code..nor the SC code...I found that I gave our your saber and force guide url to anyone who needed information on damage of sabers. It was complete and well compiled, and I praise you for making such an excellent guide. As for quitting, yes 1.03 has ruined the game, but before you quit, you should atleast wait for 1.04, and maybe, just maybe, there is a hint of hope that Raven will change some things back. As it stands now..if 1.04 is worse or does not get released..I may fall into the shadows as well.

Phr00t
05-29-2002, 03:42 PM
If you don't stick to those tactics, then you'll just get your ass handed to you on a plate over and over again by people who are willing to use them. That'll make you bored really fast too.


Yes, you'll get your ass handed to you if you have no SKILL.
From what I hear, you were supposedly the most skilled player. If you have to resort to newbie tactics to beat these people, your skill is non-existant. Goodbye.

ArtifeX
05-29-2002, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by Phr00t



Yes, you'll get your ass handed to you if you have no SKILL.
From what I hear, you were supposedly the most skilled player. If you have to resort to newbie tactics to beat these people, your skill is non-existant. Goodbye.


Take two players of equal skill level, and take away the ability of one of them to use backstab/sweeps, and Pull, and the other player will win every single time.

There's no such thing as a "newbie tactic". People who have just started playing the game have access to the same moves as people who have been playing it for 2 months. The only deliniation I make is between moves that work and ones that don't.

BigHairyWookie
05-29-2002, 04:28 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX
I've put up a post on my site that marks the end of my JK2 gaming. Give it a read and let me know what you guys think:

I won't repeat anything it says here, but the skinny of it is that I don't think this game's current incarnation is worth my time anymore.

LMAO...

Someone here has an over inflated sense of self importance, now don't they. :rolleyes: The game will go on without your presence...lol.

ArtifeX, since you'll have so much available free time now that you are retiring from JKII, here's something you can do instead:


GET A LIFE!!!

GooglyMoogly
05-29-2002, 04:29 PM
Can I have your stuff?...no wait...er..this isn't an RPG.

I don't think 1.03 ruined anything...I still play the game and enjoy it very much. I don't need to whore any of the special moves in the game to win. I find combos are only slightly less effective and actually a lot more fun to use.

My goal is never to top out the score on the server, it is to take each duel as it is and try my best.

Last night another player and I did a 1 on 1 for about 2 hours, it was a blast...neither of us abused any of the specials and we pretty much were an even match the whole time. Sure we'd pull out the specials every once in a while, but it was far from being abusive...and you know what?, we managed to kill each other.

Sorry if some of you think the specials need to be whored to win, but thats just not true.

BTW...in our last match we played to 15 and it was down to the wire...we each had 14 kills and it was do or die....my oponent did, I died...but it was so much fun.

Anyhow...sorry to see ya go Artifex..I'm sure you reallly are a very skilled player...but how much joy can you expect from a Saber game when your philosophy is Anti-Saberist? Kind of speaks for itself.

ArtifeX
05-29-2002, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by BigHairyWookie


LMAO...

Someone here has an over inflated sense of self importance, now don't they. :rolleyes: The game will go on without your presence...lol.

ArtifeX, since you'll have so much available free time now that you are retiring from JKII, here's something you can do instead:


GET A LIFE!!!

Hey, I know, maybe I'll adopt a clever star wars alias and troll about on messageboards flaming people I don't know.

Krak3n
05-29-2002, 05:33 PM
Back stab the only viable plan of attack saber wise?.......

Personelly i don't use back stab too much, i use a combination of swings against the slash of the yellow stance, workd quite well.

I don't believe 1.03 has ruined this game, t has simply changed it and i think for the better.

But there is a valuable lesson to this, would Raven have changed it at all if all tho's ppl when the game was relased moaned and nagged 24/7 asking for SP type saber combat in Mp......didn't moan.....

It's a shame that many ppl are leaving simply becasue of a patch they don't like......this game is much better then others out there.

Orangina_Rouge
05-30-2002, 12:13 AM
Your retirement just make me think more of this :

The lifespan of this game is almost at end if no Balanced 1.04 soon .....thanks raven for takin the cash and screwin this game

The Truthful Liar
05-30-2002, 12:27 AM
Hey ArtifeX too bad :(

I hope you're not planning to pull down your server any time soon, I can't get enough of it :D

Aegis
05-30-2002, 12:51 AM
Originally posted by ArtifeX



Take two players of equal skill level, and take away the ability of one of them to use backstab/sweeps, and Pull, and the other player will win every single time.

There's no such thing as a "newbie tactic". People who have just started playing the game have access to the same moves as people who have been playing it for 2 months. The only deliniation I make is between moves that work and ones that don't. I contest that statment, as I have many of your other statments. This is not always true. I have played many games where that tactic has been whored and spammed, yet have come out above that player. How? By being the better saberist. It's simple to avoid being backstabbed, even after being pulled to the ground, as I have done, multiple times. Granted, it does happen to peg me occasionally. But, to blatantly say that a whoreing player will always win out is just absurd. I have learned in the game (the hard way I might add) that skill will always win out over the whore techniques.

Someone here has an over inflated sense of self importance, now don't they. The game will go on without your presence...lol. Anyway, I agree with this statment. I personally have not seen you play, but I have read your stuff, and gotten a pretty good idea about your ego. You retiring is no grand event, its merely a player that no longer wishes to play.

jarek
05-30-2002, 02:05 AM
it would appear jk2 is yet another example of games that are successful failures. its gained alot of attention and sold alot of copies simply cuz its star wars. but it seems like almost all of its players are unhappy. including myself. in the end raven wins. theyve got our money and theres nothing we can do about it.

i agree with about 95% of what Artifex has said in his article.

unlike most people who post on these forums, he makes his arguements and backs them up with facts and figures, rather than trying to be a l33t d00d with just another lame opinion.

Demise_SOK
05-30-2002, 02:48 AM
Seeya in SW:G Art...

NeoTrunks
05-30-2002, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by jarek
it would appear jk2 is yet another example of games that are successful failures. its gained alot of attention and sold alot of copies simply cuz its star wars. but it seems like almost all of its players are unhappy. including myself. in the end raven wins. theyve got our money and theres nothing we can do about it.

Let those who are happy play it with each other. I rather enjoy this game. Shame you don't like it.

Count Beefstew
05-30-2002, 03:49 AM
Artifex, hey bro. I've visited your ASC website. You are very analytical. The site have help me lots. I understand what you are saying in this post. Don't give up playing though. Go play on NF dueling servers and you can still have fun there.

QuietSith
05-30-2002, 03:55 AM
Umm.. nice guide but:

Kick needs to be a choice between double or single tap.

Saber throws in ffa duels are in 1.02 too, hrm.

They need to remove 1 hit kills.

And make all changes (non-cheat/bug oriented) server side.

Easy enuff.

Oh and ...

Get a job. :p

SnaKeYeZ
05-30-2002, 04:49 AM
Well ArtifeX, now that JK2 is losing a good player (i think, im not a gheyberist) maybe they'll rethink their ways. Its funny that the game has been a just a few months and already people and sick and tired of this game. I hope Raven will just come to their senses and come out with 1.04.

Pedantic
05-30-2002, 05:00 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith
Saber throws in ffa duels are in 1.02 too, hrm.


A bit of an oxymoron there, don't you think?

Lord Sokar
05-30-2002, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by SnaKeYeZ
Well ArtifeX, now that JK2 is losing a good player (i think, im not a gheyberist) maybe they'll rethink their ways.

I'm sorry, gheyberist? And that would be?

If you're saying that people who are saber only players are gay, then perhaps you're missing the point of the game. Thankfully, you'll have Q3 and it's rocket launcher to keep you from having to face someone up close.

And thanks for reminding me why I NEVER play on gun-enabled servers.

Kurgan
05-30-2002, 11:46 PM
Artifex:

It seems a shame to give up a great game like this after barely 2 months, but I guess strong feelings about the latest patch abound.

At first glance, reading your "retirement" statement, it sounded like this was all because Raven shows no definitive signs of releasing a new patch to fix what you considered wrong with 1.03. But, on closer inspection, It seems for you, the fun was learning how to play the game and "mastering" it, and once you had percieved you had achieved this goal, the fun was over. I guess for me, mastering it is only the beginning, but that's just my general impression. It's up to you, in the end.

Oh well, best of luck to you guys, sorry to see you go (most of you before I've even had a chance to play you). If it's not fun for you anymore, there's no point, I'll agree.

Mutiny32
05-31-2002, 04:04 AM
They better damn well release a patch for their own sake.

Drepanon
05-31-2002, 12:33 PM
Sorry to heart about this.... I still read the Anti-Saberist code and tell others too also.... you web page was over it's limit but i email em a copy of mine :). I consider myself an apprentice of yours since i learned from your work.

I personally have a different view of what needs to happen here in reguards to the current incarnation. I have 4 servers running on 1.02 and plan to have more soon. I would like to suggest we Create a thread or a website with a listing of dedicated 1.02 servers. (i can do this).

work in progress: http://jkii.50megs.com If you like this idea please email me and help with the effort. Even if it is just good ideas or good criticism.

my servers are:

Drep's Duel~Adept 1.02 - 209.204.71.212:28071
Drep's Duel~Master 1.02 - 209.204.71.211:28070
Drep's Saber~Adept 1.02 - 209.204.71.214:28071
Drep's Saber~Master 1.02 - 209.204.71.213:28070

another great site is:
Clanmage.net - 66.45.101.43.28070

I have full servers and i know clanmage i can rarely get into. I am modeling my servers after the clanmage servers.

The one thing we have yet to try is to collectively keep 1.02 alive. Until we do this we will not nkow just how strong the 1.02 camp is. Come on... Join the rebel alliance. Lets stop attacking 1.03 and work on a 1.02 emergency rescue. I am aware of other game nightmares like Tribes2... but we have a chance to do something different. I want people to say things like... "hey maybe we can do something like those JKII players did"

Lets write own own history here!!!!!

What have we got to lose?..... oh yeah a great game.

What can be shaken.... will... what remains never could

That is my 65c worth.

Drep

ToKe
05-31-2002, 02:49 PM
artifex is so right. i haven't played jk2 in weeks except for the occasional 1 on 1 with a friend that i KNOW will not resort to the pull/backswing to win. gg while it lasted.

for you people bashing artifex, think for a moment, he took his time to set that site up with all that useful information on this (once?) great game. he gave alot to this community and it is exactly this type of player that this patch is running off.

that said i really hope raven does something to make everyone happy...what that would be i do not pretend to know.

flippo
05-31-2002, 04:37 PM
Great idea Drepanon! Good initiative.

MastaRza
05-31-2002, 05:19 PM
I understand all the above points, but I must say I still play JO just as much as I did a month ago. If you are one of those who is tired of cheap tactics, just start finding regulars to play with. I use cheap tactics, but only when someone does it to me first. I play with the same people most of the time, and I have a great time. Once you get the cheap combos done to you enough, you will be able to anticipate them before they happen.

I personally like the patch, because I play for the fun of the the duels, and the saber combat is much better than 1.02 if you play for this reason. Anyone tired of boring spam fights, look me up under "Master RZA" online and I'll give u a fun challenge.(sorry so long-winded)

Oh Yeah, the Master Server is back up!
:gben:

Hateplow
05-31-2002, 06:54 PM
It is? yay!

And if 1.03 has tought me anything its to keep my ass off the floor. :atat: :biggs: :deathstar

IronJedi Kaga
05-31-2002, 08:03 PM
It's always entertaining to see someone with such a huge ego that they have to announce that they are quitting a computer game. It's one thing to post it on your own site, but he has to come here and announce it on the forums.

Nill the Mean
05-31-2002, 08:17 PM
I just don't get why anyone is whining on these forums. I never had any trouble with the stuff that was "unbalanced" in 1.02 and I longed for some of the features 1.03 has. Now in 1.03 I still don't have much trouble but I long for some of the things in 1.02. Nothing needs really needs dicussing apart from the ridiculous amount of saber clashing and lowered damage. If these were changed I'm sure everyone would be happy again (well, almost).

There are four types of people here:

1. People who like 1.02 and call the people who like 1.03 whiners and n00bs.
2. People who like 1.03 and call the people who like 1.02 stupid and unskilled.
3. People who liked both, and are willing to make compromises untill the game gets patched (very rare).
4. People who hang around here waiting to dissagree with something.

Kralj
05-31-2002, 08:37 PM
Have any of the whiners on this forum ever heard the phrase "Adapt and overcome"? Doesn't seem so. I liked when it was 1.02, I think it was good the way it was, and I did not use DFA or anything like that.

So, it gets patched to 1.03. Sure, I thought it sucked in the beginning. But I learned how to play and how to counter all the spam attacks again... and now it's going as well as it did before the patch.

Remember this phrase: ADAPT AND OVERCOME!

Nill the Mean
05-31-2002, 09:39 PM
Adapting and overcoming is good and everything, but that doesn't take away the fact that certain things still need work. Look at the poll on the main page... says it all really.

{TSL}-Irrenarzt
06-01-2002, 12:50 AM
I find it funny how people make a big fuss and deal when they are quitting a game, just for attention. :lightning

Who cares if you are quitting. It's not like its anything important.

CoreyGH
06-01-2002, 01:00 AM
Why don't you just go play on a no force duel server that has force throw disabled? I've been on them before. They do exsist. Seems most of your problems with the game stem from different abuses of the force. Seems like a good no force/no throw duel would solve that. . .

Just my 2 cents

inbredyokel
06-01-2002, 01:10 AM
I find it troubling that people think raven isn't releasing patches "fast enough". Did you ever stop to think that maybe they want to CAREFULLY make changes and test them? I'm sure there'd be a lot more people pissing and moaning if they released a patch every other month that got rid of existing spam tactics, only to create new ones and require everyone to relearn the saber.

JediGunny
06-01-2002, 01:12 AM
To all of you!...
Ok Ok I've heard enough, Raven did not ruin the game with a patch, they only failed at doing what so many games try to do :make eveyone happy. They did not grab you cash and leave the game to rot: Expansion is in the works. And if you don't want to play the game any more, please save us the time and just go away. If you want to whine go find a Counterstrike forum and bitch to all the 14 year old punks kickin you ass (no offence to the 14 year old's who always kick my ass). And last... You make a Star Wars game that does not suck donkey ass !!!!!!! Because asside from Outcast, all SW games for the PC in the last 3 years has sucked major ass!!!!!!! I love the game , hate the patch, but I like to hurdle obsticles instead of bitching about them.

Nuff Said

Lime-Light
06-01-2002, 03:41 AM
Originally posted by JediGunny
To all of you!...
Ok Ok I've heard enough, Raven did not ruin the game with a patch, they only failed at doing what so many games try to do :make eveyone happy. They did not grab you cash and leave the game to rot: Expansion is in the works. And if you don't want to play the game any more, please save us the time and just go away. If you want to whine go find a Counterstrike forum and bitch to all the 14 year old punks kickin you ass (no offence to the 14 year old's who always kick my ass). And last... You make a Star Wars game that does not suck donkey ass !!!!!!! Because asside from Outcast, all SW games for the PC in the last 3 years has sucked major ass!!!!!!! I love the game , hate the patch, but I like to hurdle obsticles instead of bitching about them.

Nuff Said

YOU F-ING SAID IT! This is the philosophy people need to adapt.