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View Full Version : The Source is a peek at 1.04!!!


WD_ToRMeNt
06-01-2002, 03:06 AM
Check this out. In 1.03, the alt FC1 and HR took 25 ammo units, in the source just released it's 15.

So, it looks like Raven is actually listening to the community. Sweet. I'm actually starting to have faith in them again.

Who knows if they'll officially release 1.04 or not, but at least we have an idea of what they're thinking.

I wonder what other changes there are from 1.03 to the released source.

Nathan Wind
06-01-2002, 03:10 AM
who knows the source intimately yet? ammo alone does not a good game make. im a little happier. (i know i (and by i, i mean we) am going to get screwd on absorb staying invisible)

WD_Rage
06-01-2002, 03:12 AM
Absorb was like this in JK1. As I got used to seeing it in JK2, it's alright that it's now invisible.

SPY_jmr1
06-01-2002, 03:12 AM
interresting.... wery interresting.... BUT GOOD!:D

question: I am dling this updated pak now... is it somthing that mere mortals can understand, or is C++ blahblahblah king status a prerec?

also, what was theammo useage level in 1.02? if its off of a old build vs. a new one...... it might not be hot stuff so much:D

WD_ToRMeNt
06-01-2002, 03:14 AM
JK1 absorb is still stronger then JK2 absorb because in JK1 you couldn't hear it.

Also, I found another intresting thing. Check out game_version.h in qcommon. It says 1.03a.

jipe
06-01-2002, 03:20 AM
So, it looks like Raven is actually listening to the community. Sweet. I'm actually starting to have faith in them again.

Wait.. when did they ever *stop* listening to the community? JO was released and people whined/complained/offered suggestions. Raven was listening, so they put out a patch. They're still listening.. at what point did they ignore the community? And yes, 1.03a is the newer version - part of the reason this tools release was held up was the decision to release with the 1.03a build or earlier builds, which might have screwed up coders.

Nathan Wind
06-01-2002, 03:36 AM
jk1 revolved around force play and saber play. mainly divided into 2 camps, nf sabes and ff guns on oasis.


the nature of force power and gun play in jk1 effectively eliminated sabers from that camp because it heavily relied on distance to be successfull.

jk2 was designed to combine both camps. they did this by making a limit to the distance and ammo usage on strong weapons. secondary repeater distance limit, rocket speed and ammo limit for examples.

however, in order to force people from using just force powers and guns, ala jk1, the vast majority of force powers are all short distance powers. all agressive powers that rely on force to damage or drain require a dark player to get down and nasty up close with their victim.

bottom line: with a visible absorb it allowed a person to get up close to a light player without fear that a power that they were about to do would be useless. pull is essential in keeping sabers balanced with guns. pull only worked up close. in v1.02, you knew without hesitation (which could be honed into instictual action for some players) wheither pull would work or not. in ffa, with lots of things going on at once, hearing absorb becomes increasingly difficult depending on how much action is going on in the situation. due to the fact that absorb is invisible, a light gunner has an insanely greater advantage against a group of saberists, any one of which in 1.02 (with enough skill mind you. i was one of them) could take out the gunner and dispatch him in a fair although extremely fast paced sequence of instinctual actions. with invisible absorb, if you are a saberist, you are s-o-l. i think raven knew this and is why they nerfed the living crap out of the ammo. there is no point to invisible absorb other than to give light siders a redicilously greater advantage with guns and against all darksiders in general (who are intrinsically forced to get up close)

anywhooooo



yahoo for 1.04. lets hope ammo = goog guns again = visible absorb = everyone happy wheither they realize it or not

Nathan Wind
06-01-2002, 03:38 AM
Originally posted by jipe


And yes, 1.03a is the newer version - part of the reason this tools release was held up was the decision to release with the 1.03a build or earlier builds, which might have screwed up coders.

does that mean no patch?

WD_ToRMeNt
06-01-2002, 01:23 PM
Ok, rage and made a mod out of the 1.03a source that was released. Basicaly we were playing the next patch. Here are some finer points...

1) The guns are un-nerfed a bit. 15 ammo units to fire alt hr or fc1. This is great news for gunners. 1.03a TDM/CTF will be worth playing again yay!

2) Overall the saberists get screwed I think. Heavy stance damage seems to have been increased, but the backstabs have been nerfed. It took like 3 blue backstabs to kill rage.

3) Pull/Push seemed to NEVER result in a knockdown. We tried and tried, but we played for 40 min and neither one of us was knocked down by push/pull. We both had push and pull maxed.

4) Heal and Drain are still nerfed to uselessness.

Honestly, 2 and 3 could kill the last part of the competative saber community. Now is nothing do to but run around swinging saber. No combos, very little learning curve. They've completely changed the gameplay yet again. I can easly see many of the remaining duelists quiting.

On the bright side, making the guns decent again will bring more life to the real competative players; the CTF/TDM players. I just hope it won't come to late to save JK2. Many have already moved to other games.

WD_ToRMeNt
06-01-2002, 01:40 PM
Now that I think about it, Nerfing Pull/Push puts Light and Dark on more equal footing in duels.

rionikuanjiru
06-01-2002, 01:46 PM
Actually the impact of force push on someone is dependant upon his rating in force pull, and vice-versa, so having it both maxed out would explain why neither of you ever got knocked down.

WD_ToRMeNt
06-01-2002, 01:54 PM
Yes I thought about that. But you could still knock down with push/pull in 1.02 and 1.03 some one with pull/push maxed.

I'll have to test it to how much of a dif it makes not to have them maxed.

Solo4114
06-01-2002, 03:59 PM
Nathan,

I gotta disagree with you on the absorb thing. Back in 1.02, yes, it's true that you knew exactly when someone had absorb on and when they didn't. You still can find out in 1.03, though. If you use a power on someone and they flash blue, then wait 'em out, just like you used to in 1.02. It's not as easy as it was in 1.02, but then again, in 1.02, absorb was basically worthless. All it did was give you an extra, say, 20 seconds of force-free action, when folks wouldn't spam you with lightning or grip or pull. Now, it's actually a gamble for darksiders and lightsiders alike to use powers on people, because you never know whether someone's got absorb on until you use your power on them. BUT, once you DO use your power on them, if you're observant enough, you'll be able to tell that they have absorb on. As long as you don't, say, lean on the key (IE: if you're using lightning or drain), you should be alright and your force will have regenerated by the time they're done absorbing. At the same time, their force will have decreased, so you'll be in a better position.

Making absorb less visible, in my opinion, leveled the playing field. Prior to 1.03, the blue glow of absorb was just a "Don't bother wasting your force power on me" sign, and people would simply run around you and not attack until the glow wore off. Then they'd spam lightning or grip, or pull you, etc.

Keep in mind, also, that absorb will NOT eliminate damage if someone uses a higher level of power against you. IE: if I have absorb 2 on and some guy fries me with lightning 3, I'll still take damage. Yes, I'll absorb his expended energy, but at the same time, my health is dropping VERY quickly. Too quickly to really counter, in fact.

If I've got absorb 3, though, you'll be wasting your time on me, if you use force on me while I have absorb on. The simple solution is just to pay attention.

Think about it this way. Absorb is the great equalizer. It essentially turns a battle into a test of sabre skills. Much like what you see in the final confrontation in Ep. II. Count Dooku could spam lightning all he wanted, but Yoda had absorb turned on. :) End result? We decide things with sabres, not force powers.

Sometimes you can still catch people unawares, though, and fry them. Hell, I've had darksiders hit me with lightning 3 before I could get to the absorb key, and they took off a good chunk of health, giving them an advantage when things turned to sabres.

However, I do see the frustration if you're a darksider and someone's got absorb turned on. Maybe the solution would be to have some effects leak through if you're at an even level, power-wise. IE: if I hit lightning 3 against an absorb 3 user, then I should at least be able to drain his shields, if not his health. Grip 3 vs. Absorb 3 should result in immobilization, but no loss of health. Drain 3 vs. Absorb 3 should be a stalemate. The drainer doesn't gain health, but the absorber doesn't gain force, either. You just kind of break even.

Regardless, now that we have an SDK, I'm sure there will be mods for every style of play, and we'll no longer have to worry about Raven releasing patches.

digl
06-01-2002, 08:06 PM
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
Ok, rage and made a mod out of the 1.03a source that was released. Basicaly we were playing the next patch. Here are some finer points...

1) The guns are un-nerfed a bit. 15 ammo units to fire alt hr or fc1. This is great news for gunners. 1.03a TDM/CTF will be worth playing again yay!

2) Overall the saberists get screwed I think. Heavy stance damage seems to have been increased, but the backstabs have been nerfed. It took like 3 blue backstabs to kill rage.

3) Pull/Push seemed to NEVER result in a knockdown. We tried and tried, but we played for 40 min and neither one of us was knocked down by push/pull. We both had push and pull maxed.

4) Heal and Drain are still nerfed to uselessness.

Honestly, 2 and 3 could kill the last part of the competative saber community. Now is nothing do to but run around swinging saber. No combos, very little learning curve. They've completely changed the gameplay yet again. I can easly see many of the remaining duelists quiting.

On the bright side, making the guns decent again will bring more life to the real competative players; the CTF/TDM players. I just hope it won't come to late to save JK2. Many have already moved to other games. hmmm
It's 1.03a, they'll probably listen to what we say now before releaseing 1.04.

Did you notice the damage made by the red stance backsweep?
Were the back moves still like now, or they have been changed like DFA in 1.03, where you can't turn while doing them?
Did you try jedivmerc 1.03a? It should be balanced, because if the saber is nerfed even more, and the ammo use reduced then the biggest part of the community (everyone except weapons only players like you torment ;)) will start complaining.

H-street
06-01-2002, 08:53 PM
Glad to hear they "fixed" ( not nerfed) the blue backstab. It should take a minmum of 3 anything blue to kill. Other wise there is no difference between blue and red.. if anything a red backstab should be the same damage as teh blue backstab is now.

M@nd@lori@n
06-01-2002, 09:13 PM
I also hope they take this new 1.04 and at more model and maps.

:fett:

QuietSith
06-01-2002, 09:17 PM
Or it could be they are encouraging the community to make their own patch.

Ever think of that?

Mutiny32
06-01-2002, 09:30 PM
If they're listening, please, please, fix the infinite loop bug. How is it that when you install this game, the iLoop bug is amplified? Why is that? is it an illegal instruction call or something like that?

[WD]8541Doc
06-02-2002, 12:47 AM
Here's my input:

Drain
-lower the mana cost (it is extreme with 1.03 put it back to 1.02)
-more effective in healing the user (by more effective healing you don't have to use it as much, or you can still drain enemies force to no mana)

Heal
-more effective

Force Lightning
-little more damage
-same mana cost

Grip
-increase walking speed
-little bit more damage (offset by absorb to balance gameplay)

Duration based force (Speed, Seeing, Absorb, Protect, etc etc)
-same mana cost, but
-a diminished regeneration during use of the power

Absorb
-let it truly absorb all effects of force aka (not getting jinked while jumping, or someone pulling/pushing and throwing the saber at you to get you while your hand's up blocking the pull/push), because that's why they call it absorb... it absorbs the force being used on you.

Protect
-at highest level, let it friggin protect (none of these percentages of damage absorbed)

Dark Rage
-fine IMO (shouldn't be as fast as Force Speed, because speed is a seperate skill that takes learning. It's a "specific" force, whereas Rage concentrates on numerous things like, Damage taken, received and speed) so based on that, it should not be as fast as Max Speed.

Force Jump
-Maybe a little higher jump?

Force Speed
-less cost? Maybe.
-faster... sure, not by that much.

Push/Pull
-definitely keep the knockdown (that's what it's there for isn't it? If Vader was pulling pipes/vents off of walls, it should definitely pull/push someone to the floor. That's why there's Absorb and Protect)

For some reason I don't have a problem of pulling people to the ground? It works quite fine for me...?

Sabers
-back to 1.02 version
-backstab should only be fatal on Strong except if target has 100/100-200
-backstab should have a smaller arc of activation, make it a challenge to execute.

If possible, if saber is being thrown, have it be able to be pulled/pushed from/to the user.

Guns... fine IMO. You might have to switch to a different weapon instead of spamming 1 gun during the game to kill someone...?? How is thinking about what ammo could be available in a certain area not be skill related? Look at the Massassi Temple map... people SPAM the rocket launcher. Hardly ANYONE uses the Repeater at the top of the level, because most don't want to waste their time finding ammo for it. So, instead... lets all just congregate in the center and wait for the Rocket Launcher to show up, and then grab the ammo as soon as it's available... OR lets hog all the RL ammo, then wait someplace and observe everyone congregating in the center and then spam the f*ck out of them with the RL. Bah!

There's my 12 cents.

flippo
06-02-2002, 01:42 AM
With Raven releasing the source code, they are basically saying, "We made it, now you fix it. Bye."

WD_ToRMeNt
06-02-2002, 01:48 AM
To answer a couple questions on the backswing/stabs. First, yes you can still move/rotate while doing them. It seems that the hitboxes have been reduced but it might seem that way since I was playing local and not on the net. It's not a one hit kill anymore.

It was just about impossible to get a push/pull knockdown when the target had the opposing force maxed. This combined with the above paragraph spells the end of "assfighting" and pull +backswing combos.

At first I wasn't so sure I liked this, but it has grown on me. The only thing that needs to be done to the saber is make med and light stronger.

Anyways, I say Raven did a good job on the 1.03a. CTF/TDM are worth playing again, and sabering is more like 1.02. Prepare to face people using nothing but heavy stance again. Heavy does massive damage and can break through defenses. I think light and med should have increased damage as well.

1.03 Forced me to use saber more in games. There ammo was scarce and the pull + backswing was a quick and easy kill.

1.03a puts me back to using guns more, but not 100% of the time like in 1.02.

Tchouky
06-02-2002, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by flippo
With Raven releasing the source code, they are basically saying, "We made it, now you fix it. Bye."

you re stupid of course not !

it was just easier for them to release this version of the code ....

and they won 't have to release a new version of the sdk when the next patch will be out .....

Spider AL
06-02-2002, 10:13 AM
Ahem, note ye all that the disabling of pull (g_forcePowerDisable 16) in games, makes the two sides of the force better balanced offsetting the huge advantage of absorb/pull/backswing, negates backswing spammage and encourages creative use of push, which never has the same devastating effect. IMO :) Pass it on.

Yoda_623
06-02-2002, 10:39 AM
Sounds Great,I hope they make a lot of things better in a new one.

WD_ToRMeNt
06-02-2002, 03:39 PM
Pull isn't disabled in 1.03. It's just can't seem to knock down an oppenet with maxed push. The same is true for push/pull.

Newbies who don't know enough to max them out will still get knocked down. It doesn't matter so much because the backswings have been nerfed. It's better to attack with normal red stance since the damage has been upped bigtime. That's not to bad, every game should have a learning curve.

It did seem that even though the knockdown power was reduced, push/pull still moved the target more when you used it.

One note to Raven; Good job upping the damage of the red stance. Now you need to intrease the damage of the other two. Red is very dominit in sab v. sab in 1.03a. There are a lot of blue/yellow stance fans that'll complain unless those stances get upped damage as well.

Emon
06-02-2002, 04:01 PM
I think the best thing for saber combat would be to revert it to 1.02, reduce damage on the DFA, and add GHOUL 2 hit detection as default. It really doesn't add much lag, it's hardly any at all.

When it's like this, it's almost just like SP saber combat, and it's awesome!

Solo4114
06-02-2002, 04:22 PM
Torment,

It sounds like this might be the first step towards the happy medium everyone seems to want. Anything done with blocking at all, or did they leave that the same as 1.03? See, the way I always thought was that 1.03 blocking WITH 1.02 damage levels would really be pretty damn good. I never had a problem with how much damage the sabres did in 1.02, just with the fact that you couldn't block at all, so all people ever did was joust with heavy stance (very boring in my opinion).

I don't think any one stance should be the dominant stance, necessarily. I mean, each should have their perks and drawbacks. Personally, I like medium because of the balance between speed and damage, but I'll switch back and forth between it and heavy/light.

The knockdown effect of pull SHOULD be negated when both parties are maxed in that force power. Push is less of a problem since someone has to close the distance between you if they push you down, giving you a split second do, say, backflip your way out of it.

Backstabs need nerfin', if you ask me, but as long as they up the damage of regular attacks (and leave the blocking or tone it down a smidgen), things should be ok. I like the idea that the blue backstab takes three hits to kill. Medium should take two, and red should take maybe, 1.5 (so as not to be an insta-kill). Unfortunately, you really SHOULDN'T be able to rotate around like you can currently.

I don't know if this is possible, but maybe someone could make a mod where you can rotate the CAMERA around, while doing a backstab, but not the PLAYER. That would allow people to maybe get a sense of what the hell is going on behind them (one reason to try and spin), without letting folks spam the move.

Ammo consumption on guns is fine either way. The way that I see to fixing Jedi v. Mercs is to let mercs start with more weapons than just a stun gun and the bryar pistol. Jedi basically start with every power and weapon, so why not let the mercs start out with a blaster rifle, a couple of thermal dets, and their choice of ONE heavy weapon with maybe two shots worth of ammo in it. This way, if they spawn right next to a jedi and are taken by surprise, they may have at least SOME chance of surviving. As it is, if you spawn by a Jedi with only your pistol, you're screwed.

I actually am glad to hear that the ammo consumption is a bit different for CTF now. I never had a problem with it, but I can see why other folks did. Oh! Another cool idea for a mod: class based CTF play. IE: you can be either a merc or a jedi, but you can have both on the team. That way you could have sort of a balance between styles of play.

Or maybe, instead of having things be so strictly black-and-white, give people the option to either be a full guns specialist (no force), a mixed player (guns, with full starting force points), or Jedi (no guns, but a bonus to force powers -- IE: not QUITE dark/light mastery, but pretty damn close).

Regardless, now that this SDK is out, we'll see all sorts of mods, hopefully, that will let us basically play how we want to play.

WD_ToRMeNt
06-03-2002, 12:28 AM
First off, from what I could tell 1.03a blocking was the same as 1.03.

As far as the Jedi vs. Merc game goes, It is unimportant. First it's not supported, secondly it's not fit for competative play. Balancing the two for ladder/tourney play would be impossible.

As far as classes go, Raven won't do it, and for good reason. The reason they whent with JK1 style characters over MotS style classes is very simple. They got on the zone and saw the JK rooms were very active while the MotS rooms were dead. Some one will prolly make a mod sooner or later though.

You don't really need classes anyways for teamplay. When I play CTF with other WDs, we each choose a role and pick our forces accordingly.

I don't see anything wrong with making red the best stance, why else would it cost more points then the others? Howerver as it stands in 1.03a it is overly dominant and the other stances need a damage increase.

Personaly, I respect players who kill me with red stance and timing way more then people who just run at me swinging with med/light stance. Red stance is all about timing.

Solo4114
06-03-2002, 01:17 AM
I wasn't just talking about competetive play, just play in general. I'm sure someone will make a mod with classes, though. They always do that eventually with this type of game (though how good it will be is another question altogether...).

I don't mind blocking being as high as it is in 1.03, but, from having dueled the bots and dueled online, I'd have to say that it does take a while in 1.03 to get a kill without doing the backstab or some other finishing type move (flip-attack, a lucky DFA hit, etc.). Upping the damage on all stances would help this problem, as would nerfing the backstabs. Put simply, no hit should be a one hit kill. They should all be roughly comparable in terms of damage, with no one type of hit doing INORDINATELY more damage than another type. That's not to say that you shouldn't have harder hitting moves, just that no hit should, far and away, be the most damaging hit.

As far as the stances go, I see where you're coming from in terms of "Red should be the best since you spend points to get it." Under that system, I agree, it should be the "best", but I don't think the point system should work the way it does with sabres. The way I see it, red stance, blue stance, yellow stance, they're all just different tools to get the job done. No stance should be the "best" stance. Instead, you should pick stances to suit your style of play. If you prefer slow but incredibly damaging swings, you should be able to pick that. If you prefer fast swings, good defense, and lower damage, pick blue. If you like a mid-range stance, pick yellow. I guess that rather than have a stance progression as it is now, you should simply have, say, a choice of evenly balanced stances (no one stance being "best", just different), and get to pick which ones to use. Instead of having it be a blue-yellow-red progression (which would make you think that, logically, red should offer the best benefit since it's the most expensive), have the stance purchasing be more of a question of how much mastery you've put into your sabre skills as a jedi. IE: your first skill level costs two points, your second skill level costs five, and your third skill level costs eight. BUT, you can pick WHATEVER stance you want at each level. Then you wouldn't really need to have one stance stand out from the crowd as the "best" stance. Instead of buying a "better" stance, you're buying the ability to use MORE stances, which, in and of itself is better, while at the same time, no single STANCE on its own is better than any other.

To me, this would encourage developing your own style of play online, rather than sort of forcing people to pick red stance in order to compete. Think of it this way. If there is a "best" stance, people will pick it, and use it, almost exclusively. The other stances will end up being used less, and sabre fighting will devolve into simply timing out when to swing your red stance swing. Not quite as dull as JK1 style fighting, but not much better. On the other hand, with the system I propose (where you just pick whatever stances you want and pay more for the ability to use more stances, rather than pay for a specific stance), some folks would prefer to specialize in heavy offense style (IE: they'd pick only red, or would pick red and yellow), some folks in a defensive style (they'd pick blue and yellow, or just blue), and some folks would want all the options they could have (and would pick all three). No single stance would be better than another, so the REAL question would come down to how well you know how to use the stances that you use.

I just don't like the idea of having one particular stance or weapon being clearly the best weapon. Take UT for example. That was a balanced game in terms of weapons, I thought. No single weapon was the "best" weapon. The redeemer was awesomely destructive, but only had two shots and would toast you if you were too close. The rocket launcher was also destructive, but had a slower firing rate than other weapons (from what I remember). The flak cannon was awesome, but you had to get used to lobbing your shots, which took time. The ripper was cool because you could decapitate people and bounce it off walls, but it didn't do the same level of damage as other weapons. The shock rifle was an insta-hit weapon, but took SERIOUS skill to aim (at least, if you didn't have some sort of aiming program or something). Etc., etc., etc. No one weapon was the BEST weapon, they were just different tools to get the job done, and you picked whichever one you liked best. Hell, I'd regularly switch between the rocket launcher, sniper rifle, minigun, and flak cannon, while my friend LOVED the ripper and got damn good at getting headshots with it. The point is, rather than have an entire server of people using nothing but one weapon, you'd regularly see people using all sorts of different weapons. To me, that's how JK2's sabre fights should be. No one stance is the best, per se, you just pick which ones you want to use, and use 'em. If you're best at blue stance, pick blue and beat up on people with that. If you're best with red, pick that and use it. If you're best with yellow, use that instead. Or if you like to keep your options open, pick 'em all (but it'll cost ya). Thus, you don't end up with servers of people doing nothing but red stance. Plus, with this method, you don't have to make red the "best" or blue or yellow. They all balance out, and no one stance needs to be really nerfed or beefed up (just balanced).

Anyway, if I knew jack about coding, I'd make a mod like this myself. Unfortunately, I have NO idea how to do any of this.

exmarez
06-10-2002, 03:07 PM
You are listening to an elite gaming god

The suggestions you recieved in creating jk2 were from the newbie community of jedi knight, the character moves too slow, the guns are all horrible, inacurate, or slow- the saber is too slow, and its swinging radius is too small. By taking away so much to create a more rounded game you have limited the combinations of moves and counters that you can produce in the game, the force powers dont match up with your moving speed or weapons.

The reason so many people find this game fun:
They all suck- you reach a certain level of skill fairly quickly in this game where you realise that improvement is almost impossible, anyone can get good at it because its such a slow moving game that movement means almost nothing, there is practically no avoiding or escaping at such slow speeds, its more of a camping newbies game with next to no skill involved than any game I've ever seen, The game is considered good because anyone can become good at it in a short period of time, there is no higher level of gameplay to reach.

Maybe thats what you wanted though, create a game anyone can play and have fun, appealing to a wider range of people, but you forgot about the people who kept jk1 alive, you forgot about how long some of us were waiting for a new game to play for fun.
So many of us were so dissapointed. Games arn't everything though- I'm not angry at you or anyone, but I had to say this at some point.

It's just a bunch of flashy kiddie ****, you could play this game for years and not get any better at it, I'd rather play an old game like doom2 than this game.

dont even bother trying to shut down what I've said, I dont even play computer games anymore after what you released as jk2, as far as im concerned- JK1 was the greatest first person shooter multiplayer game ever made and this sad excuse for a sequel is just that, you shouldn't have made a sequel, or worked on the game for a couple more years.

Dark Begger
06-10-2002, 03:26 PM
Well, I think the game was screwed over from 1.02-1.03, for the same reason as exmarez, but I don't agree with his approach on this situation. First of all, calling himself a gaming god right away puts him in everyone's mind as a braggert, and isn't worth our time. Secondly, skill is still required in the game of 1.03, although the learning curve is not as steep. The best are still the best, if you aren't up at the top all the time, it means you aren't the 'elite gaming god' you claim to be.

Anyways, that is way off topic, back to the stuff about 1.03a.

Overall, I think it is an improvement. I must say though, that nerfing the backstab/sweep was not a good idea. Raven tried the 'nerfing' approach with 1.02-1.03 and ended up with bigger and problems than they bargained for. What they should have done was add something to eliminate assfighters. As Torment noted, increase in saber damage will in turn help stop ass fighters..as now there is danger in running into the guy backwards.

I enjoy the decrease in alt+fire ammo usage although I don't even use guns. I am a dueler, but I dont' think there was a problem before in 1.02, and am glad that reducing the usage made more people happy then it made people angry.

As for saber combat, I still prefer 1.02, as 1.03a still has the hack/slash mentality to it. But hopefully with the increase in damage, people will swing more wisely, and maybe with a ghoul-2 set up, blocking will be decreased and damage will occur more often, which will make duels a lot more intense and fun.

just my 2 cents...

RahnDelSol
06-10-2002, 05:04 PM
"You are listening to an elite gaming god"

ROFL

Pardon me while I bow before you, O God of Gaming 1337N355

Am I the only one who read that line and just burst out laughing? hehe

Nobodi Kenobi
06-10-2002, 06:50 PM
I know that this thread is primarily about the 1.3a patch or Mod that is now out (which I have played btw...)

However, it of course comes back to the 1.2 versus 1.3 debate and I think there are legitimate claims for both priase and frustation on both sides of the argument.

I myself am primarily a dueler, but of course know how to use all the ranged weapons and have been on all weapons enabled servers before.

But, speaking strictly as a saberist, I must concur with my fellow posters who are asking for blue and yellow stances to be brought back to their 1.2 roots as long as red is now the "dominant" stance in terms of its strength and effectiveness.

I think the ideas proposed here would truly be the compromise that a lot of players were wanting once the differences between 1.2 and 1.3 became obvious (in all respects from guns to force power imbalances to saber-nerfing in some respects).

In addition, while exmarez may not know how to properly express him or herself...

I also agree partly with what they said in that while I never played JK1, I agree that 1.3 -- which is what exmarez references in no uncertain terms -- Made the game "too easy" and there really is NOT a level of progression to try to attain as in other games like CS and UT imo.

I'm not saying there is no skill to be a top player or competitive player in JKII.

Don't get me wrong.

However, the point I'm making is that a majority of people playing JKII are NOT competitive players and simply playing to have fun...

BUT event THAT is becoming a "problem" because of the imbalances that the original 1.3 patch introduced (I.E. push/pull/BS spammers, lightning whores, absob, assfighters, etc).

This is where I agree with exmarez in that I think that the whole purpose of 1.3 was to make the game even more accessible to non-skilled casual players -- I am an average-skilled, casual player -- Especially since AOTC was due out only six months after JO was released back in Dec '01, which is around the time 1.3 came out (April wasn't it?)

Anyway, I am sure I will get flamed for these views and that is fine.

I agree that the 1.3a Mod is a step in the right direction and hope that the talented JO Mod community will start producing mods that will appeal to ALL players concerns so the game goes back to being what it is meant to be in the first place: Fun.

Peace :)

Robbiesan
06-10-2002, 06:55 PM
LOL

you are not alone in this.....

edinflames
06-10-2002, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by flippo
With Raven releasing the source code, they are basically saying, "We made it, now you fix it. Bye."

with the announcement of the "no more patches we are happy with the game" policy im afraid hes right.

anyway has sum1 got a big source code list or sumthin or can they tell me where i can get it?

WD_ToRMeNt
06-11-2002, 03:25 AM
Heh. Marez might be an ass some (well, most actually) of the time. If you don't know who WD_NiGhTMaReZ was, you know NOTHING of the competitive JK1 FF community.

What he was trying to say was simple, but as normal he adds enough trash talk to take focus away from the meaning. Basicaly he is right in that JK2 is very much dumbed down compared to JK1. JK2 was made for the kind of people that called my playing style "lame" after raped them into the negs.

Raven bowed down to the all mighty dollor. They didn't make the MP good, the just made it so that the millions of SW fans would spend money on it. It's obvious by the relative inactivity on many of the ladders and the mostly non-hardcore gamers that populate the servers, that the real gamers have moved on.

QuietSith
06-11-2002, 03:36 AM
Again I repeat:

Source release = patch the game yourselves community.

Source release = more cheats.

edinflames
06-11-2002, 03:47 AM
yeh ur right but i know lots of people that consider any change to the source a cheat. even stuff like ghoul2 is cheating to them.

i can see where there coming from(silicon hell most likely) but they are very very wrong.


the source release bodes good and bad news for the community, firstly bad cos there will be no new official patch for every1 so if we update our games not every1 will be able to play c3:)! BUT its good cos it means we can customise the game servers WITHOUT creating a whole new total conversion mod, and that cant be a bad thing can it?

exmarez
06-11-2002, 02:43 PM
glad to see you remember me torment hehehe.

I just wanted to see how many people felt the same way as I did about the game.

someone should make a mod so jk2 plays like jk1, then we could at least have a jk1 game with better gfx and net code, I really dont even think the game is fun to play, I'd rather play board games online than jk2

you know what? jk2 wouldnt have been that bad if theyd made it fast at least, but they just made it too slow, the force powers are stupid but we all still could have had fun if it was fast paced.

they didnt even have a mp level in it that was better than oasis either, I couldn't believe that.

most of my friends in real life love jk2, they're all newbie gamers though.

as if you didnt think that *you are talking to an elite gaming god* was a joke hahahaha

but I was at one point in time- I doubt I ever will be again, unless a mod comes out to make jk2 a LOT better, because playing ****ty games just reminds me how much fun jk1 was, but there is no more jk1 community, theres just newbies left, plus the game gets old after years of playing it.

I don't really care if I upset anybody by saying jk2 isn't much of a game, because if you never played jk1 back in the day you dont even know what level a fps can reach.

I hope the guys from raven read this.
and if you guys at raven decide to make a jk3, CONTACT ME ILL HELP MAKE THE GAME, ASK PEOPLE LIKE ME FOR SUGGESTIONS NOT A BUNCH OF RETARDS, on the forum where you guys were taking suggestions those people had no idea what they were talking about at all.


ex NiGhTMaReZ

WD_ToRMeNt
06-11-2002, 03:22 PM
Umm MaReZ lol. You should pay more attention to the WD site lol. Rage and I have been working on a mod called JK2++.

Origionaly, we wanted to make JK2 just like JK1. However, the Q3 physics just don't allow for pin-point control at hight speeds the way JK1 did. Tried to double JK2's speed, but even though it was slower then JK1 by far we had less control. You know how Rage and I moved in BGJ and it just wasn't possible in Q3/JK2. It would be difficult or impossible to truely emulate JK1.

One more thing kept us from modding JK1 mod for JK2. Why do all the work to make a JK1 mod when we could just install JK?

So, we decided on sticking with the basic JK2 style of gameplay. We changed the way the forces worked to make it faster and enhance gameplay.

There is a link to the WD dev site on the main WD site, and I'm sure you know the URL.

Raze
06-11-2002, 03:32 PM
Originally posted by WD_ToRMeNt
[B]Heh. Marez might be an ass some (well, most actually) of the time.

I can second that heh..
Actually I think Marez was one of the biggest [insert bad word here] in the JK1 scene.. I still have those screenies showing him using Godmode in CTF Nar NF.. either hacks (what I think anyways) or taking ss (which is just as bad) heh.. Oh and I can still laugh over that collection of images Molgrew showed me of Marez whining and bitching lol..



-Raze

WD_ToRMeNt
06-11-2002, 06:01 PM
Screen shots of god mode? LOL yeah right, post if them you've got them. If you are talking about that god mode detecter program, then forget about it. That was one of the most useless programs for JK1 because it consistently gave false positives.

I never cheated in JK1, yet some one used god mode detecter on me and got a (false) positive. People are always quick to accuse others of hacking to protect thier pride after getting negged.

exmarez
06-14-2002, 08:52 PM
dont ban me for saying this but rze youre an IGF newbie if i remember, probably one of the newbies that made jk2 suck, I hassled you for fun because you sucked so much dick, youre a dick sucking faggot that eats cum beetles out of your own open ass

any good player knows I didnt hack or cheat, I wont even argue it actually.

BlackDove
06-14-2002, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by exmarez
dont ban me for saying this but rze youre an IGF newbie

You really are new, aren't you?

exmarez
06-25-2002, 03:19 AM
Dont talk to me I dont even know you, Youre defending that faggot so you must be one too.

qute mE 0n m3 sp3ll1ng 1f u w4nt, it doesnt change the fact that youre a faggot, ill take you on any day in jk if you want biches, ill give you unfair teams and a handicap on me if you want i dont even care you little bitches need to get raped, ill put you in your place, ****ty newbies that talk **** like you are pathetic, you want some come get some ill face both of you at the same time

YOU HEAR ME FAGGOTS YOURE NOTHING

I dont come to this gay board so yes im new here, im new here because i came simply to say jk2 sucks, I heard the people who made the game come here so basically I was coming online to tell them they sucked for making jk2 suck so much, I didnt come to listen to newbie faggots talk **** to me.

youre the retards that are playing that game, you DONT EVEN DESERVE TO TALK TO SOMEONE AS DISTINCT AS ME IN THE GAMING WORLD, YOURE **** ****ING ******S COMPARED TO ME, YOU FAGGOTS COME MEET ME IN REAL LIFE IF YOU WANT ILL BEAT YOU IN ANYTHING YOU WANT ANY WAY YOU WANT

RAZE HAHAHAHAHAHAHA YOU WORTHLESS GAMER FAG, WHY DONT YOU FIND SOMETHING YOURE GOOD AT TO WASTE YOUR LIFE DOING, BECAUSE YOU SUCK AT GAMES, YOU SUCK AT LIFE, just another little kid that doesnt understand what hes getting himself into, thats what you are.

you want to prove yourself against me then try it, I havnt played jk in months and i know id still crush you like a baby

so why dont you cry some more *wahhhh wahhhhh you dont spell good im ssc faggot* stupid little bitch, why dont you go live your life at spelling school for faggots that suck dick.

I challenge your whole clans to clan war now faggots

**** you

gonk-raider
06-25-2002, 05:42 PM
boy im childish because I find this new situation funny :)

<>Phant0m<>
06-25-2002, 08:52 PM
If any moderators are about plz delete his post as its completely of topic and childish, and it seems like his mum doesnt allow him to swear much so hes taking it out here where she wont know about it. :eyeraise:

Anyhoo back to wot we were saying, this news has made my day as i was just starting to get bored with the backstabbing and the noobs that find out the 1 hit wonder then spam it endlessly.
I think this patch should fix all the major problems atm with JK:-

More damage will definatly create better fights with less "risky" special moves eg. Meduim finisher, DFA, backstab.

Nerfing the backstab was the best news i heard as its the only really really easy 1 hit kill move that everyone can pull off, new to the game or not. now it will take time and experience to acheive a more or less 1 hit kill.

Blocking has stayed the same hopefully so the battles will again be epic (me hopes).

Evening out the force powers is great as it will take time and experience to fight light and dark, no more just spam the best force.



All in all it looks as if the game could be vastly improved.




:)

<>Phant0m<>
06-26-2002, 08:06 PM
Bump this up plz!!

Cus i think this is a good discussion minus the children. :eyeraise:

gonk-raider
06-26-2002, 08:42 PM
oh and phantom shut up :) we have enough busy body do gooder here

MrYepp
06-26-2002, 09:22 PM
I say we do it Marez vs. SSC

it'll be like:
>Marez:atat: killing SSC :jawa :jawa :jawa

Agen
06-27-2002, 03:07 AM
Marez never cheated but he had an ego problem, which isn't necesarilly a bad thing
:D

FatalStrike
06-27-2002, 03:56 AM
Why is no one demanding that 1.04 (if its true) return the speed to at LEAST 1.02 levels. 1.03 is too slow, didn't you people notice?! I think higher speed always demands greater skill to be considered "good".

The pace at which you run when you have force speed level1 active should be the normal pace of the game. The swing speed of rage level 1 should be the normal swing speed (maybe a little slower).

The DFA should come back to the point where you can move in the air. It should not have the splash effect (you missed! oh wait he died anyway) or the land mine effect (i.e. step on it and die). It should have the same hit strength as a medium regular hit hit, no more, no less. It made duels more interesting by making people think twice before hitting and then backing up a little out of range, thus exploiting heavy's slow speed in a cowardly way. A little out of swing range was exactly in DFA range.

They should make one change to saber fighting to even out the stances. If you get hit while in a swing, you DO NOT FINISH THE SWING. That way a medium or light stance user could come in on a heavy user and stop him in mid swing. This would make heavy more difficult to use and more even with the rest. That way the speed of the other too would really be a positive over the strength of heavy. That way challenging a heay stance could be done with out running in and out of the action. You could (in theory) actually charge a heavy user and win.