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grandmasterlee
06-02-2002, 10:32 PM
I'll make this as short as possible , there are enough "essays" and diatribes from people on their thoughts.

-Force powers are not balanced. It should be a strategic choice in which powers you choose. Every force power should have an advantage and a disadvantage.

-Backstab is necessary to top the board. This move needs some sort of a penalty to prevent spamming.

-Lightsaber feels like a whiffleball-bat. Reducing the damage of the lightsaber was not a good idea. By default it should be like 1.02 with an optional setting to lower the damage for those FEW that like drawn out fights.

-There is no developer to community communication. Everyone has been posting here for WEEKS with no feedback. Seriously, it only takes 1 minute to look at the board and see how upset everyone is. A single sticky post from the developers acknowledging the complaints would reduce the pleas for change by 10 fold.

-The chances of a new patch making things better is quite slim, in addition any new gameplay imbalances will probably go weeks and weeks without change or even comment.

I see no hope for this game for at least 3 months.

/sad.

BlackDove
06-02-2002, 10:48 PM
Just die.....

icefox98
06-02-2002, 11:35 PM
I agree with Kal....

Gandmaster...i have a plan for you. if this game isnt going to last 3 months, beat the crowds and QUIT, and dont post messages on this forum. I have a feeling Ive heard what youve said a few times before.......so just shut the hell up. im really sick of your bitching. Go play Quake.

BlackDove
06-02-2002, 11:38 PM
Many people are bitching. This is just +1 to them. They all say the same thing, it is only comprised in a different sentence....

SeraphimII
06-02-2002, 11:48 PM
I have to say that I agree with every said above exceptwith what Grand Master Lee said.

If the game, sucks play another. Sure some things need ajusting, in your view your just expressing your feeling, but having thread after thread saying the same damn thing over and over is pointless.

BlackDove
06-02-2002, 11:57 PM
You got it...

paulbob
06-03-2002, 12:06 AM
Originally posted by =SSC=Kal-El
Just die.....

I wouldn't put it that way, but I agree with that sentiment. grandmasterlee, if you don't like the game.. well...
a) Dont play it
b) Dont ruin it for the rest of us. I don't want to hear your whining and I'm sure others would agree with me
c) Give some constructive criticism instead of just saying the game sucks
d) If you dont like it, make a mod. The tools are out now, so there's no reason to say the game "sucks". The ball's in your court now

-Soldier2200

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:09 AM
Well I just wanted to shorten it up in 2 words. I don't want him to ACTUALLY die...

jarek
06-03-2002, 12:10 AM
I'm really tired of people getting bashed because they have a negative opinion about the game. Grandmasterlee presented an arguement, rather than just saying "this sux0rz". There is a difference between that and bitching. If you fail to see it, ok whatever.

We've all paid good money for this game, if it isnt meeting our expectations we have the right to be angry. I cant speak for the rest of you, but I don't like throwing away $50.

For every moron that screams, "this sux0rz" theres another who screams back, "stfu quit bitching! die!". Idiots outnumber intelligent people in this game 10:1. If you disagree with someone thats cool, but telling them, "whiner! u suck!" only makes you look like an ass. It also doesnt add any weight to your opinion.

Yeah, theres probably 100 other threads written by people who dislike the patch, but theres also 100s of threads written by people who love the patch too. So what? Threads get buried over time. People dont like it when old threads are bumped. So what are people supposed to do? Not talk?

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:11 AM
You just don't get it do you?

jarek
06-03-2002, 12:19 AM
Yeah, you're an example of the type of people I'm refering to.

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:20 AM
Can anyone explain to him why we said what we said in the 5-7 posts after the begining of the thread?

jarek
06-03-2002, 12:25 AM
You're tired of the "bitching". Why not just ignore those people then?

icefox98
06-03-2002, 12:25 AM
Jarek - Haven't I told you to go away on your other threads? Well, I really wasnt kidding. Your "witty banter" is getting kind of old. You sound like a broken record. Please, do it for the kids. Go away. And don't come back.

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:28 AM
He seemes...uninformed...and foolish to post like that, because he just showed how *cough* BEHIND *cough* he is...If I wanted I could slam dunk with the posts he made, however I feel sleepy so I won't bother...

jarek
06-03-2002, 12:29 AM
LOL, grow up icefox.

Don't start some lame online forum war between us.

Same goes for you Kal-El

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:29 AM
3rd post and he still doesn't get it.....

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:31 AM
Sorry...4th...

DeathDragon
06-03-2002, 12:35 AM
jarek i think some people enjoy trying to make others look bad by trying to demean what they had to say any way possable. supiority complex , they get off on it i. i cannot say for sure but yor wasteing your breath trying reason man

icefox98
06-03-2002, 12:41 AM
No one has to make you look bad, Dragon....I think you are the chief, GM, President, God, of that department........Two words, I bet youve heard these all too many times.

LEARN ENGLISH.

DeathDragon
06-03-2002, 12:41 AM
im not sure whats up with what in this whole thin now just fight win die but fight how hard is this


i keep hitting new thread ack

Lime-Light
06-03-2002, 12:52 AM
can we just sum it up here?

How about: This game sucks. Whiners suck. Non-whiners suck. Everybody else sucks. This thread sucks. DeathDragon's English sucks. This forum sucks. The world sucks.


CLOSE, PLEASE

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:52 AM
This is actually quite funny hahahaha. You don't see this every day ;)

jarek
06-03-2002, 12:55 AM
At least we can agree on something.

DeathDragon
06-03-2002, 12:59 AM
here i am speek to jarke yet everone must take a shot at death ....another fine example of the morons makeing my point for me surely the ironic humor of this hasn't escaped you

Xombie
06-03-2002, 01:01 AM
I'm really tired of people getting bashed because they have a negative opinion about the game
Then don't let them voice a negative opinion.
That's the thing about free speech. It goes both ways. If people are allowed to be negative, then people are allowed to be negative about the negative people. If people are hurt by being torn down, they shouldn't bother speaking.

We've all paid good money for this game, if it isnt meeting our expectations we have the right to be angry
Yes, but you don't have the right to be repetative and bothersome. No one cares if you dislike the game.

I cant speak for the rest of you, but I don't like throwing away $50.
Buying video games is throwing away $50 dollars. If you really valued your money, you wouldn't be buying toys.

Idiots outnumber intelligent people in this game 10:1
Welcome to gaming. Enjoy your stay.

Yeah, theres probably 100 other threads written by people who dislike the patch, but theres also 100s of threads written by people who love the patch too
"But he started it!!" isn't a valid reason for anything. Neither should have 100s of threads.

People dont like it when old threads are bumped. So what are people supposed to do?
There are still active threads about the subject, so that argument holds no ground.

Don't start some lame online forum war between us.
1.) What the hell would an "offline forum war" be?
2.) If you don't like people disagreeing, don't talk.

The reason why people dislike whiners here is because this is a community that PLAYS the game. No one really cares if someone hates the game. It's just annoying.

jarek
06-03-2002, 01:06 AM
Feel better Xombie?

You kinda changed what I said into youre own twisted version of what I said. In other words, you misunderstood me.

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 01:07 AM
I sure do...

Lime-Light
06-03-2002, 01:08 AM
wow, one of those 1 in 10 intellegent poeple.

Hurrah for Xombie.

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 01:14 AM
Fact of the matter is that they both missed the purpose.....

Emon
06-03-2002, 01:27 AM
As I have said in other threads, this game's Force, weapons and lightsaber combat are greatly balanced in comparison to the original JK and MotS, so quit whining. You should be happy with this.

Xombie
06-03-2002, 04:44 AM
You kinda changed what I said into youre own twisted version of what I said
I quoted you directly.

You kinda changed what I said into youre own twisted version of what I said. In other words, you misunderstood me.
Is that why you refuse to tell me how I misunderstood you? Or is it because I didn't?
Care to follow through? Or just make a BS excuse?

Xombie
06-03-2002, 04:50 AM
Every force power should have an advantage and a disadvantage.
Which, of course, would make no ****ing sense whatsoever in the context of the star wars universe.

There is no developer to community communication.
Yes, they don't like to toss money out windows. This isn't an MMORPG, there is no garaunteed semi-permanent support.

Everyone has been posting here for WEEKS with no feedback.
That's because it is a FANSITE FORUM.

The chances of a new patch making things better is quite slim
Of course, based upon your amazing powers of irrationally negative speculation

jarek
06-03-2002, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by Xombie

I quoted you directly.


Is that why you refuse to tell me how I misunderstood you? Or is it because I didn't?
Care to follow through? Or just make a BS excuse?

I never "refused" to tell you.

jarek
06-03-2002, 05:53 AM
Xombie, Since you wanted it so bad, here it is.

If people are allowed to be negative, then people are allowed to be negative about the negative people.

Thats true, I never said they weren't. But I can say I dont like it. Intresting how you mentioned freedom of speech, cuz thats what I was using :)

Yes, but you don't have the right to be repetative and bothersome.

Um, actually I can be repetative and bothersome about it. However, I dont think I was. Once again freedom of speech.

No one cares if you dislike the game.

OK, now youre just being an *******.

Buying video games is throwing away $50 dollars. If you really valued your money, you wouldn't be buying toys.

Whatever Mom.

"But he started it!!" isn't a valid reason for anything.

I never said it was. stop putting words in my mouth.

There are still active threads about the subject, so that argument holds no ground.

I didnt start this thread.

1.) What the hell would an "offline forum war" be?

Yeah, there you go being an ******* again. The fact that its "online" is implied. So I guess the word didnt need to be there. I didnt know we were in English 101.

2.) If you don't like people disagreeing, don't talk.

Dont EVER tell me what to do.

The reason why people dislike whiners here is because this is a community that PLAYS the game.

Hmm, ok well if you wanna play instead of talk, then why are you here?

Gambit808
06-03-2002, 07:22 AM
ok, why dosent everyone just shut the f$%^ up for a few! this a forum right? right! are we all adults? i think we are so why dont we start acting like one then! oh yea, i missed the last Ep of Freakazoid! damn! oh well, dexters labatory is on! later all! : P:evanpiel:



by the way, i still think O.J. still did it! later






GO FRESNO STATE(i know they suck)

NerfYoda
06-03-2002, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by Gambit808
<snip>

Welcome to the JK2 forums. :) Just ignore these kinds of threads. No fun!

Nathan Wind
06-03-2002, 10:05 AM
superman needs to quit being a prick. the community is saddend.

Demolisher
06-03-2002, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by grandmasterlee

-There is no developer to community communication. Everyone has been posting here for WEEKS with no feedback. Seriously, it only takes 1 minute to look at the board and see how upset everyone is. A single sticky post from the developers acknowledging the complaints would reduce the pleas for change by 10 fold.

Dude, you are so so so right about this. I think it is so unfair that Raven doesn't respond to us. The tech support forum is loaded with posts from people like me talking about the freezing bug. Mike Gummelt finally read one thread that I started and all he did was ask me to email him. I am not going to email him because there is no reason he can't read all these threads. He doesn't seem to understand that this game freezes for no reason at any time! So I can't just give him specifics in an email; this game freezes or crashes at any time during the game. It either crashes and performs an illegal operation and takes me to a really bright desktop, or the game itself just freezes and I have to restart my computer.

And guys, grandmasterlee is right about the lightsaber. I was starting to get good at this game and now I suck at it with the patch. From day 1 of this game I always stuck to light and medium stances; hell, I can't even do a DFA move so I'm not one of those people.

I think Raven or Lucasarts should get off their lazy asses and start reading every forum and message on this site.

Xombie
06-03-2002, 11:43 AM
I can garauntee you that they're reading the posts here. The guys at Raven make it a point to find and read feedback. Just because they aren't replying doesn't mean they aren't reading.

BlackDove
06-03-2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Nathan Wind
superman needs to quit being a prick. the community is saddend.

Hey what's wrong with Superman? Superman rules. ;) Besides, if I was saddening people, then this is really some screwed deppresive hole.

Darth Sazah
06-03-2002, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by jarek
I'm really tired of people getting bashed because they have a negative opinion about the game. Grandmasterlee presented an arguement, rather than just saying "this sux0rz". There is a difference between that and bitching. If you fail to see it, ok whatever.

We've all paid good money for this game, if it isnt meeting our expectations we have the right to be angry. I cant speak for the rest of you, but I don't like throwing away $50.

For every moron that screams, "this sux0rz" theres another who screams back, "stfu quit bitching! die!". Idiots outnumber intelligent people in this game 10:1. If you disagree with someone thats cool, but telling them, "whiner! u suck!" only makes you look like an ass. It also doesnt add any weight to your opinion.

Yeah, theres probably 100 other threads written by people who dislike the patch, but theres also 100s of threads written by people who love the patch too. So what? Threads get buried over time. People dont like it when old threads are bumped. So what are people supposed to do? Not talk?

it is always good to see positive attitude....i agree with jerek, yet i will ignore both sides~~~~~~ damn why am i writting this..... i was supposed to ignore....ignore....:p

Yoda_623
06-03-2002, 02:01 PM
I'm sure they will do something about all the problems, but for now I guess we'll just have to ride it out.

grandmasterlee
06-03-2002, 03:44 PM
Thank you for the response jarek.

Patton
06-03-2002, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by Demolisher
I am not going to email him because there is no reason he can't read all these threads.

I'd bet there's a really good reason.

HE HAS A JOB AT A LARGE GAME DEVELOPMENT COMPANY, AND YOU DON'T. You're lucky he responded, assjack.

Jarek: Calling someone a <whatever> (the forum masks it) for saying that no one cares about your opinion of the game is just silly. Everyone has an opinion, and 9 times out of 10, no one really cares what other people think. At this point in time, I read reviews of games for pure entertainment, not because I value their opinion. The fact that you dislike the game doesn't give your opinion any more weight than mine. I think people on this forum are getting a little annoyed because new topics keep popping up, like this one, where someone says something thats been said 900,000 times. I think its clear by now that about half the people here like the patch, and half do not.

Community-Developer feedback is not a necessary thing with FPS games. You already gave them your money... guess what, you're ****ed. Welcome to real life, the place where you don't always get what you want, and nobody cares what you think.

Do us all a big favor though: next time you want to post your repetetive opinion, follow these important steps, especially if you don't want negative feedback on negative feelings.

1. Write what you'd post on a peice of paper, or use notepad.

2. Throw that peice of paper out, or delete the .txt file.

There, you've just accomplished the same thing, and annoyed less people. That makes you a winner. Here's a peice of candy.

[HoT]Dark-Sith
06-03-2002, 04:54 PM
well, i have to say that this thread has cheered up my boring day at work anyway

since i already like the game (minus a few points, but like a lot of people have already said, no-one wants to hear what i have to moan about) then i just love watching people argue over it

And i have to say, i love this line:

Idiots outnumber intelligent people in this game 10:1 - Welcome to gaming, enjoy your stay

So true :D

:dsaber: :dsaber: :dsaber: :dsaber: :dsaber: :dsaber:

slice
06-03-2002, 05:17 PM
:violin:
I'm a little teapot, short and stout
Here is my handle, here is my spout
When I get all steamed up, hear me shout
Just tip me over and pour me out!

I'm a clever teapot, yes it's true
Here's an example of what I can do
I can change my handle to my spout
Just tip me over and pour me out
:violin:

Krazikarl
06-03-2002, 05:22 PM
I think that people do have a right to complain about what they don't like about games. After all, the forums would be very boring if everybody got along. However, that doesn't mean that people should just go flaming each other; when you disagree with somebody, feel free to write about it, but try and be mature and post your opinion, not a blatant attack on people.

Anyway, if you are satisfied with the product support that Raven/LA has offered so far, well, thats fine with me, but I'm not. I expect more. Of course, I rarely play mainstream games for the very reason that big companies don't value their customers as much as the smaller companies. JK2 is a decent game, but it could have been so much better. I'll probably play it a little more, but I can tell you one thing: I will probably not buy another game in the series, and I will avoid Raven's games in the future. They didn't do a bad job, but I'm not rich, so you won't see me spending my money on mediocre games that have potential. I want a good, complete game with support. You may not require that, and thats fine, just don't flame those of us who expect a bit more.

Actually I enjoy playing this game over a LAN where I know people and we all get along and agree on rules (no excessive backstabbing, duels have certain rules that everybody agrees on), however, once you get out on to the other servers, well, you're always going to have lots of immature people in the game, and it is oh so easy to lame in this game. Raven doesn't care, and it probably makes them money. They would lose a lot of 12 year olds if you couldn't spam one specific move, or one specific force power and win. I enjoy games that can be played competitively, and well, this game can't. Its a recreational game (CTF is probably a good competitive environment where you can't lame that much, but there aren't enough people with the game on my LAN to get these going), thats easy to learn, but skill plateaus too easily IMO.

Demolisher
06-03-2002, 05:47 PM
:evil5:
I guess you like having to reboot your computer all the time when playing a game. You must like being in the middle of a duel with another player, free for all, or in some important part of single player and then all of a sudden the game crashes or stops then having to wait for your computer to reboot. I feel bad when it looks like I've abruptly left a server; I don't want to seem rude or lame. Second, I have a real good computer and it's ridiculous that this game has to have problems with it.


You all have to understand that Raven screws gaming communities over and over again. They never keep their promises and always abandon the community. They screwed over the Hexen II community by leaving Hexenworld unfinished in beta and loaded with bugs. They kept adding more and more bugs into Heretic II instead of fixing them. I think Elite Force is the only game they got right. Raven's problem is that they only care about money. Hell, that's the problem with the world! Instead of doing something nice for gaming communities who bought their games, Raven just sits back and says "**** them, we got their money already, so lets go"

jarek
06-03-2002, 05:53 PM
Its just a shame people cant discuss things and be civil even tho they disagree. With my first post, I tried to do that. But now lamers have turned this thread into a war zone.

Sadly I sunk to their level on a few of my later posts. Unlike most people, I can admit when I'm wrong. (wrong about sinking to their level, not my opinions of the game).

I've realized that I cant discuss things with people who just want to instigate fights and/or people who think they are always right about everything. Some people use this forum to discuss the game, others use it to vent their frustrations with the problems, and then there are those who sit back and look for opportunities to attack people.

Lime-Light
06-03-2002, 05:54 PM
Ok, so whats the piont of this? If everyone thinks Raven pays no attention to these forums, or any others, why are you talking about it, good or bad?

darth dragon
06-03-2002, 05:58 PM
Why take up some one elses battle JEARK. Have you noticed that master has left the forum and i think u should follow suit and join the minorty of people who hate this game. P.S are u a trekkie.

Nathan Wind
06-03-2002, 08:06 PM
people should complain all they want and not be called whiners. they should be flamed on how ignorant and moronic they are when they post their suggestions up instead.

Uranium - 235
06-03-2002, 08:14 PM
Okay kiddies grow up. Just because you have 'l33t' skills doesn't mean your in charge of the forum. Most people voice their opinion within two lines of starting. If you don't like the negative talk, then here's a magic trick.

Click the back button and it dissapears!

Just think: You wasted five minutes of your life typing a message that contributed nothing to the discussion, just to make someone feel bad.

PS: Xombie, did you play Tribes2? I think I remember you.

jmvrett
06-03-2002, 08:33 PM
I just spent quite a bit of my time reading all of the posts in this thread. It was actually kind of enjoyable. My question, however, is: what is this argument over? Is it about the so called whiners or about backstabbing? I'm just a little curious that's all. Thanks!

Uranium - 235
06-04-2002, 01:42 AM
It started with a guy saying why he thinks the game is going to die (Like Tribes 2, similarily enough) and all the StarWars geeks who consider themselves forum moderators came in and started crying.

slice
06-04-2002, 03:17 AM
yup, and i think my post added A LOT to the argument..... you are all welcome for my contribution
:D

Xombie
06-04-2002, 04:07 AM
Tribes 2? Yes. Yes I did.