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Lord Darkblade
06-07-2002, 02:34 PM
I have made my Mace Windu Ep2 saber and I want to see how it works in game but I need to know how to compile it for when it's skinned. So what I need is to know, after I have the w_saber, parent, and flash tag, what do I do from there in Milkshape. How do I get it to work in game w/o the skin to test it right now, and how do I get it to work with the skin for when it's done?

If anybody can help I would realy apreciate it... :)

:slave:

Madjai
06-07-2002, 02:52 PM
well you need to export it to md3
then load it in md3viewer and convert it to glm

thats with no textures, and there might be problems, since its milkshape i cant help you there...

Lord Darkblade
06-07-2002, 02:57 PM
I have exported the model to MD3 with Milkshape with the saber_w, parent, and flash tags and then converted the model to glm and then made it a pk3 with the apropriate directory names but it didn't work. I also tried it with the saber_w, parent, and flash tags combined into one w_saber and then did the same as the last but it still didn't work...

Thanks for the idea though :)

I'm sure I'll get it eventualy... :slave:

Lord Darkblade
06-07-2002, 03:14 PM
ok, I might have found what was going on. For one, I didn't put the saber in the right directory path and that was part of the problem. I fixed that but now I am getting an error:

Error:
R_LoadMDXM:
models/weapons2/saber/saber_w.glm
has more that 1000 verts
on surface (3658)

Does anybody know what this error is or how to fix it? I have a feeling it has to do with the vericies on the model and that there are too many but how do I fix that?

:slave:

V!G
06-07-2002, 03:16 PM
Your on the right track. I think your the first person to do this using milkshape? So your the front runner, the pionier, the...umm...err first guy to do it...so your kinda on your own?

Can you see it in modview?

I can't help too much either beacuse I have not tried making weapon replacements :( If you do figure it out maybe you should write a tutorial and post it? I am sure milkshape users would love ya for it!

V!G

<EDIT>
In milkshape, go to tools, show model stats. If you have over 1000 triangles then you have too many. You should start to hack down the number of polys you have. Technicaly you are limited to 1000 verts (or so it seems). But I think you should keep your saber's under 1000 polys/tris MAX. any more detail above 1000 is not going to be seen ingame and just cause peoples systems to lag when they pull out your saber.

Keep in mind that it switches to 3rd person and displays the model your using, and the saber hilt. So the poly budget for sabers is less becuse you have to share it with the player model.

Lord Darkblade
06-07-2002, 03:24 PM
ok, I think the error is from having too many verticies. I have 2544 verts and 4773 triangles. most other saber models I've tested have around 400 on average so I am doing somthing wrong. I think I might have to go and redo most of the saber model and cut corners and such to get the verts down. I didn't realize making the saber look more rounded and such would effect the game being able to recognise it.

Also I think if I get this working that I will create a tutorial, as Gmax is way to complicated for my taste and maybe others as well.

V!G
06-07-2002, 03:42 PM
What is the poly count of your model?

If you post flat shaded & wire frame pics of your model I can help you cut out un needed polys. The best way to bring the poly count down is to snap and weld.
select the vert's you want to weld, and hit ctrl-n (to snap), then ctrl-w (to weld). It's a slow going process in milkshape but that is the best way.

OH wait there is a tool called prgresive mesh. Go to tools progressive mesh. and enter in 50% to cut the number of polys in half. The results are kind of mixed but test it out and see what you get. I would try and shoot for under 400 polys for a saber hilt, but that is just me. I am not sure what the REAL limit is?

Lord Darkblade
06-07-2002, 04:55 PM
I'm having some trouble posting the pics so I will post them on a different server later or if you would give me your e-mail address I would send the pics to you. If you don't want to post your e-mail publicly you can e-mail me and I'll get your e-mail that way.
zcoldfusion@hotmail.com

And even cutting the verts in half didn't put me under 1000, which is the limit in JKII. And when I cut them to 50% the model got realy weird and messed up.

V!G
06-07-2002, 07:05 PM
You can post images at Poly Gods (http://www.polygods.com) and link to them from any forum. That is what they are there for :) You don't have to post a 3d Viewpoint model of it, just upload your pics then link to them. My email accounts are really tiny like under 1.5 megs so unless they are small files don't send em.

markd@us.infogrames.com

You can also use the MilkShape Forum (http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/forum/) for help on reducing poly counts. It allows you to upload images also :)

V!G

Lord Darkblade
06-07-2002, 07:45 PM
Thanks V!G, here is the link to the Milkshape forums where I posted the pics:

http://www.swissquake.ch/chumbalum-soft/forum/showthread.php3?s=&postid=23368#post23368

Lime-Light
06-07-2002, 08:22 PM
Holy Crap! You might as well scrap that right now, theres no way you're gonna get that in-game. Thts got enough polys to be a player model!

V!G
06-08-2002, 02:08 AM
Take it easy thier lime-light. He is working on reducing the poly count. I don't think he should scrap it at all. It's a really good saber. I would hang onto that version because it looks nice. But I would not use it for ingame.

Anyway check my post in the Milkshape forum.

V!G

Lord Darkblade
06-08-2002, 05:55 PM
Thanks for your help V!G, I have sent out an e-mail with the saber model in it. I sure hope we can get it to work in game...

Your help is encouraging V!G :)

V!G
06-08-2002, 11:07 PM
I recived it and was able to hack alot of polys out of it. I packaged it up and sent it back to you. Let me know if you didn't get it. When all was said and done it came in just over 600 polys. 617 to be exact. it would drop down lower of you made the buttons on the upper hilt with the skin instead of polys.

Where I mostly found un needed polys where in the cylinders you used. They had too many stacks, and slices. In milkshape cick on the cylinder tool. Down below you will see 2 boxes pop up. Stacks and slices. The stacks are what got you in the most trouble. I almost always set my stacks to 1 that way you don't have alot of verts hanging around in the middle of the cylinder. If you set your stacks to 2 then you double the number of polys need to make the cylinder.
See Figure 1 (http://bg40kmod.clanpages.com/vig_junk/verts.jpg)
This is a side view of a cylinder with 8 slices and 2 stacks. If You make the same shape but change the stacks to 1 you cut your poly count in half.
See Figure 2 (http://bg40kmod.clanpages.com/vig_junk/verts02.jpg)
That little trick will save you alot of polys. Also as general rule of thumb you don't need to go above 8 slices to make something look round in game. The smaller the object the less slices you will need to make it look round. So something like a light saber you can get away with 8 or even 6 slices.

Trick #2
Now this next step will help trim only a few polys but it can drop you down quite a bit if you remember it. Lets say your going to make a piston shape. You will need two cylinders. To do this basic shape.
See Figure 3 (http://bg40kmod.clanpages.com/vig_junk/verts03.jpg)
Now cylinder 2 can slide into cylinder 1 and you have your piston shape. But wait cylinder 2 has hidden polys capping the cylinder. You can delete the extra ploys. You don't have to worry about anyone seeing into cylinder 2 beause cylinder 1 is capping off cylinder 2.

Trick #3
now we are going to get sneaky and creative. Lets say your going to make a exhaust tube for a motorcycle. It start out small on one end and then get fat where the muffler is, then skinny again where the exhaust comes out. Instead of using 3 cylinders to make this use 2. Make the skinny cylinder stick thru the fatter muffler cylinder, on both ends.
See Figure 4 (http://bg40kmod.clanpages.com/vig_junk/verts04.jpg)

I have more tricks but this should be enough to keep you busy for a while :) Good luck and keep up the good work.
V!G

Lord Darkblade
06-09-2002, 11:05 PM
Thanks V!G, that helps a ton! :)

I am stuck on another problem now though :\ I have the tags in the model set up as best I can. I followed the instructions of having a one sided triangle perfectly lined up on the x axis (or the y axis I can't remember) but I named the tag flash like I was supposed to do, but I don't know if I'm supposed to combine that tag with the saber_w group. I noticed in other models I've opened in Milkshape they do not have any tags hanging out, just the saber_w group and nothing else. I don't have a skin for the model but I doubt that has anything to do with the saber blade. Does anybody know how to set the tags up right so that the blade will come out?

Also I have set up the parent tag so the character holds the saber in a specific position. Could this be interfering with the flash tag? It is lined up on the opposite axis and is also a one sided triangle.

Any help would be great. I just have to get the saber hilt the apropriate size for the blade comming out of it and I should be ready to release a skin mesh for skinning... :D

V!G
06-10-2002, 11:36 AM
Helping you with your saber has gotten me interested in doing my own and getting it ingame. I am skinning mine right now and will try and put it ingame over the next few days. I will let you know how it goes. Also I saw someone post a tutorial about getting custom sabers ingame. I will try and find the thread again.

V!G

<EDIT>
Found it! HERE (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59315) it is. Thank you snakeyes.

I was just reading over it and it sounds like you have already done most of what you need :( I would not group the tag into the main saber group. Then it will stop being a tag. Try importing lukes saber and using those tags? They look different then the ones you had in your saber. I belive the flash tag needs to be twice as long as it is tall. Your height and length look to be the same. so I would import lukes saber and delete everything except the tags. Also you want the flat part of your tag to rest ontop of your model with the point going down into your model.

like This (http://bg40kmod.clanpages.com/vig_junk/screen06.jpg). Also make sure when you name your tag you call it *flash Don't foget the ----> *

V!G

SAIK HUAT
06-10-2002, 11:42 AM
pictures?? Where are they ;(

V!G
06-10-2002, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by SAIK HUAT
pictures?? Where are they ;(

Which ones are those? the figures in the mini tutorial? They are there and working.

SAIK HUAT
06-10-2002, 12:03 PM
nah... I wanted to know if this mosh has pics of his new saber...

Lord Darkblade
06-10-2002, 01:19 PM
some of the older pics are in this (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=59513) forum :)

:slave: