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View Full Version : Saber Throw is getting out of hand


iceman9722
06-10-2002, 01:07 AM
I just went to one the duel servers I frequent and conducted a little test. I used nothing but saber throw. No attacking, nothing. Just saber throw. This is a NF server with only L1 jump, and all the saber skills enabled. Went through 10 people, no sweat. Without ghoul2collision, I don't see why anyone would need anything else.

Old_Ben
06-10-2002, 01:13 AM
Of course you could win by just saber throw but then the deuls get boring really fast and soon you have no one to fight because they all leave the server,

Datheus
06-10-2002, 01:19 AM
You mean like how people try to win with nothing but pull/BS?

BlackDove
06-10-2002, 01:30 AM
No I think he means how people can win if they throw all the time.....

Luvac Zantor
06-10-2002, 01:37 AM
While I think there are issues that need to be addressed, this just sounds like people who want to beat each other up with a glowing tree branch.

Let's remove push/pull/throw/grip/lightning cause people use them too much.....

It's easy to beat a thrower,,, with patience

it's easy to beat someone without patience,,,, throw -- Maybe they'll stop trying to swing madly and chain combos and actually think.

Just my humble opinion though, I'm sure someone will tell me I'm wrong. :D

BlackDove
06-10-2002, 01:39 AM
Being that the jump was "on" I would just kick the bastard who threw the sabre to death...

G0G0GadgetForce
06-10-2002, 01:44 AM
LOL!!! You said saber throw is getting out of hand !!!!

Well of course it is... if it wansn't out of hand, it would be called a hold er something....

Sorry thought the title was funny...

BlackDove
06-10-2002, 01:45 AM
Good man for noticing it. I am so tired (6am about to hit here) I didn't even notice.

Redwing
06-10-2002, 02:34 AM
*gets deja vu*

I think concussion rifles are getting out of hand!

Wait, *cough* sorry, wrong game. :D

SPY_jmr1
06-10-2002, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Redwing
*gets deja vu*

I think concussion rifles are getting out of hand!

Wait, *cough* sorry, wrong game. :D


hehe, in the SBX3.1 mod, it made the CR bolts saber bouceable.... it was a riot to play CR tennis:D also bouce the conker right in the teath:D


the fun... the wonder... the gunzers laying in the heap in the corner...:D

SPY

C'jais
06-10-2002, 08:39 AM
If someone throws his saber at me, I pretty much take it as a sign of "no holds barred", and begin to kick him to death. Or hit him when he's laying on the ground. Or just stand there and let him come closer.... real close...

SeraphimII
06-10-2002, 10:09 AM
I say to fix saber throws make it like single player where ur saber can be knocked out of the air, and double the amount of time it takes to automaticly return to you.

Dark Begger
06-10-2002, 12:05 PM
well...saber throw should only be activated on force duels. NF duels should not have saber throw, and Raven already addressed that small problem. So I don't think anyone hsould have a problem with saber throw. If you find it on a nf server, then leave and find another one, that server is probably a less experienced server as compared to one where they fix it so that saber throw is not included in nF.

So if they are throwing you to death..you can pull/push/grip/lightning them to death...I don't see anything too bad about that.

JandoFett1842
06-10-2002, 12:09 PM
Saber Trow? Thats not out of control, it is the newbs on NS_Streets that use grip. Thats what out of hand.

JandoFett1842
06-10-2002, 12:10 PM
Pushing is what you are suposses to do, it requires more tallent than just walking up to someone and using grip to drop them to there doom!

BlackDove
06-10-2002, 12:22 PM
:violin:

Bah, cry me a river...

Fossil25
06-10-2002, 12:31 PM
but gripping is easier to get counter
i find it real funny when one guy grips and i grip him back (or vice versa) and when try to get each other down the hole, with almost half the time ending with both of us falling.

BlackDove
06-10-2002, 12:36 PM
I just like it when they WANT to grip me...always gives me full force so I can push em

RahnDelSol
06-10-2002, 12:43 PM
There's nothing wrong with saber throw ;)

If you went and beat 10 straight people using only throw, then those 10 people weren't very good...lol

I mean, seriously...if someone can't adapt to ONE tactic, they shouldn't be playing.

Masonis
06-10-2002, 03:35 PM
I see nothing wrong with Saber Throw as it is. If I throw my saber at someone it's because they're swinging wildly or attempting to perform a DFA or backstab. Otherwise, any skilled player will just flip out of the way or face and block the saber. There's nothing unbalanced about it.

Beyond
06-10-2002, 07:54 PM
Hmm I didn't even know saber throwing was sort of taboo - I do it all the time. I just get a couple close range throws in while I'm fighting just to diversify things a bit. That's definitely not all I use, but it is a great way to knock down a little health.

I think it just gets boring in a duel when it's two people swiping at eachother unsuccessfully and intermittently trying to land kicks for 10 minutes I haven't encountered anyone who uses throw to the point of it being really lame, either. If someone was relentless, I would just leave them alone and do effective yet cheap pull/BS's whenever i happened to bump into them coming around a corner or whatever.

Redwyng
06-10-2002, 08:38 PM
In a NF server, is there any way to counter someone who saber throws excessively (or exclusively) without throwing back at him as much as possible? He can run backwards as fast as you can chase him, so you will NEVER get into hitting range. I think they stated that it's a bug that you can saber throw in NF servers - I don't know why more server admins don't disable it if they know how (since they often enable higher levels of jump).

BlackDove
06-10-2002, 08:51 PM
Start kicking the thrower and when he is on the ground backslash him. That'll teach him to start changing the tactic heh...

Redwyng
06-10-2002, 09:12 PM
I don't know... its alot harder to kick people who throw constantly down because they jump alot (hence don't get knocked down), plus you have to get close enough... not to mention kick requires level 2 jump I believe, while on some NF servers they only have lvl 1 jump.

Lime-Light
06-11-2002, 01:27 AM
Now we're complaining about saber throw? Its completely balanced. If someone is stupid enough to attack when they are far away from you, they deserve to die. Otherwise, it takes zero effort to block it.

DannyJAllTheWay
06-11-2002, 02:14 AM
Saber throw takes away too much life...

Datheus
06-11-2002, 02:33 AM
Someone called me a throw whore earlier today...what crap that is... he shouldn't be swinging his saber when he's way out of range of a swing...

Anyway...yea, saber throw, the only thing that annoys me about it is some time still does dmg even after you blocked it...but saber throw is realitivly easy to counter...most people don't put it at 3 (I don't think) So you could most often just jump out of the way

XERXES
06-11-2002, 02:41 AM
i think everything is out of hand in this game...

Swingman
06-11-2002, 02:48 AM
Don't you see what's going on here. Saber throw wasn't complained about enough in the forums so he's here to make sure it gets due attention.

We want our complaints about the game to be well balanced.

edinflames
06-11-2002, 03:56 AM
apart from the fact that sabers throw sumtimes duz damage to sum1 wen they block it, its fine.

but the bug about spinning the saber aroud u without it returning to ur had sux.

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 05:55 AM
Some people find SaberThrow lame. I don't really think the move in itself is lame, just the way some people use it.

In duels, some just wait you out and every time you move/attack, they walk/roll backwards and throw. This makes red stance almost completely useless, since any red stance swing renders you helpless against saber throw long enough to inflict damage upon you. In this situation the most succesful counter against saber throw "standing still" doesn't apply. So you can only dodge, which is rather difficult when going into a red stance swing and trying to get to your opponent. (Ok, I am whining. Sue me. Or...no, wait... anyone has a good counter against the above mentioned "tactic"? )

Apart from that I don't really see the neccessity of such a move. The way it is implemented in the game, it doesn't feel starwars-ish anymore. The only situation in the movies where I can recall a saber throw is Darth Vader in ROTJ when fighting Luke. Other than that, Jedi VERY RARELY give the lightsaber away. Remember Obi Wan in EpII criticizing Anakin for not taking care about his saber. "This weapon is your life!" It doesn't make sense to throw it all over the place.

What I also absolutely can't understand is:

- why is it not more likely to lose the saber on throw? When it hits or is blocked, why can't it fall down?

- why, oh why can't you push a thrown saber like any other projectile. Heh, you CAN push a rocket, but not a thrown saber?! CRAP!!

Suggestions:

- If a thrown saber is auto-blocked, make it at some likeliness fall to the floor so that it has to be retrieved by pressing primary attack.

- Instead of facing the saber standing still, make it so you can swing at the thrown saber. With the right timing (and at the risk of getting hit by it when in the middle of a swing just like it is now) you can hit it and make it a 100% chance of falling to the floor or even bat it farther away, making it more difficult to retrieve it. Heh, imagine lightsaber baseball

- Make a thrown saber affectable by pull/push so you can either push it back or stop it cold and make it fall to the floor or maybe jump and push it through under you.

- It should be possible to completely lose your saber. When it falls into an abyss, it's gone. Period. You'll get a new one when you respawn or when you take a saber from a killed opponent (like when you are left saber-less and then kick your opponent to death, you can take his saber.)

Additional suggestions (nice, but unlikely to be realized):

- Make it so you can collect the saber of your opponent and fight with two sabers like Anakin did in EpII against Count Dooku

- In team games like CTF or Team FFA, your team mates can collect your lost saber and give it back to you.

I'd like to hear your comments...

Sutek
06-11-2002, 06:26 AM
I rather like most of those suggestions, and all of them are do-able to my knowledge.

I always got the impression Raven weren't entirely happy with the current probability of saber loss after a throw. I especially like the suggestion were a thrown saber could be struck deliberately by a skilled opponent, losing it for a longer period of time (or completely). It gives us something to practice and allows more skilled players another counter against a tactic that DOES get overused.

Fossil25
06-11-2002, 07:28 AM
i would like having sabers on the floor after the throw for me to run and force pull them...
in sp, i throw them a lot since they are just so simple to use and effective as well...when they get stuck and eventaully drop, i tried to force pull them but i had to walk and grab it instead :(
i wish the last battle with desann could (or must) end in a way when both sabers get locked and or parried or something and our saber drops to the floor and you gotta quickly force pull it and kill him. just a nice way to make an interesting kill. or maybe after both drop on the ground he does a grip on you again like in artus, and it doesn't allow you to push him (also like in artus cuz i was wondering if i could kill him in artus, used cheats but found that he couldn't be pushed even when doing a normal grip on me). and so you just pull your saber to you and either perform a saber throw to slice him in his shock or maybe he will be shocked and quickly narrowly escapes the throw. he then looks for his saber and onces you reach near him and do any form of attack, the game automatically makes you do a slow motioned death from above the very instant he pulls him saber towads him but with you chopping him up just before it reaches his hand and his saber flies past and lands with a clang clang on the floor...

:D
ok that was quite irrelevent i just realised

by the way, there's that grip and throw saber to kill but it doesn't let me throw while gripping. when i stop the grip and do a throw, usually there's this delay and it usually doesn't kill the guy, perhaps only killed him those time when he had low hp. is this actually a viable strat? and would it be considered cheap?

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 08:37 AM
I rather like most of those suggestions, and all of them are do-able to my knowledge. Someone told me that it would take a massive coding effort to implement this in multiplayer. I don't quite understand that since it happens in single player all the ime. I am no programmer, though...
in sp, i throw them a lot since they are just so simple to use and effective as well...when they get stuck and eventaully drop, i tried to force pull them but i had to walk and grab it instead Actually you can press primary attack and the saber comes flying back to your hand. So that is in fact force pulling it to you, just that it is performed by hitting attack, not force pull.
and so you just pull your saber to you and either perform a saber throw to slice him in his shock or maybe he will be shocked and quickly narrowly escapes the throw.I think this is crap. Like I said, a jedi wouldn't throw the saber like that. Way too dangerous. Especially against such a powerful foe. It would be likely that he pushed the saber away from you or something (if this were in the movies, that is).
by the way, there's that grip and throw saber to kill but it doesn't let me throw while gripping. when i stop the grip and do a throw, usually there's this delay and it usually doesn't kill the guy, perhaps only killed him those time when he had low hp. is this actually a viable strat? and would it be considered cheap? I wouldn't think it's a cheap strategy since it can be countered very easily (absorb, push ...). To perform this, simply don't let go the grip. Keep gripping him and throw the saber. You probably need to remap your keys (just guessing, for what other reason would you let go of the grip in order to throw, if not for some "I can't reach the secondary attack key while pressing grip"-reason?).

If you like a nice screenshot of this maneuver, check out the "Sweet featured screen" on www.jediknightii.net.

Sutek
06-11-2002, 08:43 AM
Well the sp game allows the saber to be lost, at least temporaily. What happened to the code for that? And if it *is* in there, surely it's just a matter of finding the right variables and altering them?

Just having a reasonable chance of losing your saber for a while if your opponent blocks it is good enough, everything else is just candy.

Fossil25
06-11-2002, 11:27 AM
my grip button is 'C' and my throw saber is the alternate fire, mouse 2 being the one i use.
i guess i just did something wrong everytime i try it...

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 11:30 AM
Yes, people spending time writing posts is really gonna change the throw.....

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 11:53 AM
Well the sp game allows the saber to be lost, at least temporaily. What happened to the code for that? And if it *is* in there, surely it's just a matter of finding the right variables and altering them?

Just having a reasonable chance of losing your saber for a while if your opponent blocks it is good enough, everything else is just candy.Exactly what I think. I don't know why this shouldn't work.
Yes, people spending time writing posts is really gonna change the throw..... And your point with that reply is...WHAT?!

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 11:59 AM
Try and guess

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 12:43 PM
Try and guess
well, my first guess is: There is no point.

What you probably were trying to say is:
"Stop the whining and go write a mod if you don't like it the way it is" :violin:

If that's the case, you unfortunately missed the point of my post. Go and read it again. :rolleyes:

My second guess is: your point is "please don't write such extremely detailed and long posts because my concentration span doesn't suffice to read it. Rather than that, keep your posts short and mysterious like mine. This way you quickly get more than 280 posts and seem like you are really an active community member. Also this way you stand a chance of being misunderstood and making your community fellows grumpy and confused :confused:."

If that's the case, well, sad enough. :mad:

If there was another point to your post that I may have missed, I kindly ask you to explain yourself. :D

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 12:51 PM
Try again

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 12:58 PM
Ah well, it's not that your opinion is THAT important to me.

You don't wanna tell, guess what: I don't wanna know.

So there. :cool:

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 01:00 PM
Then why did you ask? You even tried to guess...How are you not interested when in two separate posts you showed interest?

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 01:10 PM
Look, I'll explain it to you. :rolleyes:

This is a discussion forum. It is about having a discussion. That involves exchanging opinions.

If I make a statement, I am interested in the other people's opinion. Because that is the point in posting it into the forum. Okay? You can follow me there? ;)

When the first time I didn't see what you mean, I asked. Of course this was when I still believed that your opinion would add to the discussion.

Since you are not willing to make a valuable contribution, I don't care anymore, neither will I beg you on my knees to give your opinion. If you don't wanna tell, keep it for yourself.

Suggestion: Don't spam the forums with posts saying nothing but "hello, I don't want to say anything concerning this topic. I just liked to say that I don't like to say anything."

Have a nice day. :)

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 01:12 PM
But you were interested and then said you don't care about my opinion at all...that is what you said before you edited of course...:D

Dark Begger
06-11-2002, 01:18 PM
calm down you two europeans. lol...let me try to put this back on topic.

Throw is perfectly fine imo. If someone uses throw, then you have the choice of using pull, absorb, grip, lightning, drain, bleh bleh bleh. So it puts them at a great disadvantage also.

In NF duel servers, it is now KNOWN that throw should NOT be on. If you find in a NF duel server that throw is on, it is obvious that the server host does not read the forums and does not know that he has to change something..you should tell him. LOL..eyah well anyways,....back to working..

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 01:36 PM
*watching the post go off topic*

=SSC=Kal-El, I grant you that: this is getting funny :D

However, I never said that I don't care about your opinion at all. I will only take a limited effort to make you talk about it. That effort is: ask once.

I heard there are psycho-analysts who have very sophisticated question techniques to make people talk about stuff they don't want to talk about at first. Maybe check in with your local therapist.... :D

*getting back to the topic*

In NF duel servers, it is now KNOWN that throw should NOT be on. If you find in a NF duel server that throw is on, it is obvious that the server host does not read the forums and does not know that he has to change something..you should tell him. LOL..eyah well anyways,....back to working..What about privat duels in Force FFA games? Force is disabled there, not so saber throw. Also, I like the idea of low force servers, where at least Jump is enabled. Mostly, the Admins also enable saber throw. Of course that's his right, since it is HIS server, and I might go find another server.

My main point is that it is not really starwars-ish IMHO. It should be more risky to use saber throw, e.g. by making it likely to lose the saber.

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Bluezman
*watching the post go off topic*

=SSC=Kal-El, I grant you that: this is getting funny :D

However, I never said that I don't care about your opinion at all. I will only take a limited effort to make you talk about it. That effort is: ask once.

Well I can't proove it because I didn't quote it but I do know what you wrote before you edited.

I heard there are psycho-analysts who have very sophisticated question techniques to make people talk about stuff they don't want to talk about at first. Maybe check in with your local therapist.... :D

I don't even know how you managed to put that in the context...

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 02:33 PM
Well I can't proove it because I didn't quote it but I do know what you wrote before you edited.So now you are trying to say that I altered my statement afterwards because I didn't like your answer to it.

In fact if you "know what wrote before I edited it", what was it then? As far as I remember it was the following:

post before edit:
Ah well, it's not that your opinion is that important.

You don't wanna tell, I don't wanna know.

So there.

After seeing it I made some minor changes which were only cosmetic such as adding a smilie making a little clearer what I mean.

Between my post and the edit were only minutes if not seconds. But you obviously were so eager to reply - of course again without getting to the point - that you assumed my edit was due to your answer.

Which leads me to the following:
I don't even know how you managed to put that in the context...Well, you don't want to say what the point in your initial post was. Not that I still want to know, I'm just explaining why it obviously needs a therapist to make you talk about it, since simply asking for it doesn't do the trick but only makes you engage in stupid riddle play: Try and guess

Cal-Gon Gin
06-11-2002, 02:45 PM
Not to interrupt this little flame war...

I was duelling this llama who kept spamming DFA and I kept sidestepping and throwing to his back. He picks up and runs away saying "All throw." Well, duh, you leave me little incentive to do elsewise. This from the person who would only DFA folks who were duelling and had their backs to him.

Throw, like all moves, has its place. Nothing finer than a well timed throw that slays an opponent from behind as they close in to kill the weaponless opponent >:)

Biggest problem with JKII as it is now are the lame asses who should return to CS IMO.

diablos0
06-11-2002, 03:02 PM
In my opinion there is not enough skill required... people can win by a simple backslash I believe this should be made MUCH less powerful as I have patience and attempt to beat these people but it is too difficult... it's becoming quite easy to be a Merc now... which is nice.. all these backstabbing whores running backwards alls you gotta do is pop a couple rounds from the imperial heavy when there frantically running backwards hoping to get a kill... Yeah and while i'm on a rant... I believe that this is a good game BUT.... how many Star wars films you see with a jedi running backwards waving his glow stick like a flag?

Dark Begger
06-11-2002, 03:05 PM
well if you're comparing it to saber fights in movies, then let me say this. how often do you see a saber slice a guy but the guy not die and only lose like, 10% of his health? lol....it's not about realism, it's about fun..granted I hate how the damage system works..but you can't compare this game to how the movie potrays it...

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Bluezman
So now you are trying to say that I altered my statement afterwards because I didn't like your answer to it.

In fact if you "know what wrote before I edited it", what was it then? As far as I remember it was the following:

post before edit:


After seeing it I made some minor changes which were only cosmetic such as adding a smilie making a little clearer what I mean.

Between my post and the edit were only minutes if not seconds. But you obviously were so eager to reply - of course again without getting to the point - that you assumed my edit was due to your answer.

Which leads me to the following:
Well, you don't want to say what the point in your initial post was. Not that I still want to know, I'm just explaining why it obviously needs a therapist to make you talk about it, since simply asking for it doesn't do the trick but only makes you engage in stupid riddle play:

And you just posted 5 times for a pointless subject I made up. Congratulations, you are the first one to whom I managed to do this (which was my point from the start by asking you to guess).

NEXT.....

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 04:45 PM
Make it 6 times.
And thank YOU for clearly showing that you lost this argument and don't see any other way to get out of this.

At least you proved my first guess right: well, my first guess is: There is no point. LOL you just said it yourself. :D

Case closed.

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 05:18 PM
No, actually there was a point to my post, and there still is, however when you started asking I went with the "guess" because I wanted to toy with you.

Trying to win an argument by twisting my words? Weak.....

Bluezman
06-11-2002, 06:07 PM
And exactly how am I twisting your words?

BlackDove
06-11-2002, 08:12 PM
Well how do you think you are twisting my words?

Bluezman
06-12-2002, 10:36 AM
Well how do you think I think I am twisting your words?

*YAWN*

Look, this is getting boring.

Being the resident jackass that you are (sorry, it says so in your status :D ) you for some odd reason decided after my first question to "toy with me" as you put it.

Then you brag with how you make me post several times to clarify what I thought to be a misunderstanding. Wow, you are just so smart, aren't you. :rolleyes:

You also stated, I'm "the first one to whom you managed to do this". So you try to do this to other people, too. Wow, that's just so cool... :rolleyes:

Tell me, how does your behaviour go together with your ideals "Freedom, Equality, Honor, Integrity, Friendship" ?

Ah well, what can you expect from a sixteen year old kid anyway, eh...

Grow up.

ShockV1.89
06-12-2002, 12:57 PM
Tell me, how does your behaviour go together with your ideals "Freedom, Equality, Honor, Integrity, Friendship" ?

Gosh, where have I heard this before? Hmmm....

And so we see, THIS is exactly why I (and probably many others, at this point) dont like you, Kal-El. You take a perfectly normal thread (and face it, its normal for this board..) and turned it into a flame. Theres no need for that, except you get your kicks causing trouble. Grow up, already...

I mean, when he asked, you could've just told him...

ShockV1.89

Bluezman
06-12-2002, 04:59 PM
Thanks, ShockV1.89. I was almost starting to think that it was just me...