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View Full Version : RADIANT vs. UNREALED (must read)


Smood
06-17-2002, 07:54 AM
I'am definately impressed with the improved quake engine behind jedi knight ii. But in terms of atmosphere and effects, it simply can't compare to UNREAL.

To be blunt.. (because I don't want to speak to long and waste all of your and my time... ;) )

How will you ever match a level like Facing Worlds from unreal tournament? Try to, and you will see jediknight the quake engine and radiant cannot do it.

UNREAL ED... is the best 3D level editor hands down. Ease of use, variability, options, and great compatibility with the UT and U engine.

Grets Sirob
06-17-2002, 08:00 AM
I'm sorry, but this is a jk2 forum, if you posted this in the wrong place, I will forgive you. If you meant to post this here, die, right now:mad:. Who cares, we just want to have fun, and make good levels, so shut up and leave.




:gungan: Mesa stupid!

volrathxp
06-17-2002, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Smood
I'am definately impressed with the improved quake engine behind jedi knight ii. But in terms of atmosphere and effects, it simply can't compare to UNREAL.

To be blunt.. (because I don't want to speak to long and waste all of your and my time... ;) )

How will you ever match a level like Facing Worlds from unreal tournament? Try to, and you will see jediknight the quake engine and radiant cannot do it.

UNREAL ED... is the best 3D level editor hands down. Ease of use, variability, options, and great compatibility with the UT and U engine.

ease of use doesn't always generally mean good. IN FACT, if someone wanted to do Facing Worlds they could. The Quake 3 Engine is much more versatile than the old UT engine mainly because Q3 has the ability to pull off better effects plus supports things that Unreal truly lacks (i.e. true reflective mirrors, rain, snow, fog). Now if you're talking about the new UT 2003 engine, then you may be ok simply because it is an extremely powerful engine. Granted: UnrealED is a simple easy to use program. IT was designed for the editing community originally and was purposefully designed that way. Radiant is a true professional tool that was not designed with us in mind but more or less the companies that make the games and make the levels.

Just my .02, but personally I agree with Grets.

volrath

Grets Sirob
06-17-2002, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by volrathxp
Granted: UnrealED is a simple easy to use program. IT was designed for the editing community originally and was purposefully designed that way. Radiant is a true professional tool that was not designed with us in mind but more or less the companies that make the games and make the levels.

And thus takes more brains to use.

Hehe, I just had to say that, I'm very sorry if I've offended you...




:gungan: Mesa stupid!

volrathxp
06-17-2002, 08:44 AM
yeah it had to be said though Grets.... and I agree it does take a certain measure of intelligence to get used to using and working with Radiant... just not a pick up and go program you know.... Good point man.

volrath

Grets Sirob
06-17-2002, 08:51 AM
Why thank you.




:gungan: Mesa stupid!

Smood
06-17-2002, 09:55 AM
Firstly I was merely making a comparison. Saying things like 'die now' or 'leave' are inappropriate, and I have just as much right to be here as you, if not more (i.e. staff member)

With that said I'll move on...

Originally posted by volrathxp


ease of use doesn't always generally mean good. IN FACT, if someone wanted to do Facing Worlds they could. The Quake 3 Engine is much more versatile than the old UT engine mainly because Q3 has the ability to pull off better effects plus supports things that Unreal truly lacks (i.e. true reflective mirrors, rain, snow, fog). Now if you're talking about the new UT 2003 engine, then you may be ok simply because it is an extremely powerful engine. Granted: UnrealED is a simple easy to use program. IT was designed for the editing community originally and was purposefully designed that way. Radiant is a true professional tool that was not designed with us in mind but more or less the companies that make the games and make the levels.

Just my .02, but personally I agree with Grets.

volrath

Firstly, I'am not saying Radiant is tough... I mapped in radiant, and just didn't like it. The brains thing, is well, pretty silly if you know about both editors. It is almost like saying you need more brains to learn C++ then Java (loose analogy).

Secondly, I'am not talking about the 2003 engine. Furthermore have you ever mapped with unrealed... I have my doubts considering all the effects you've mentioned rain, snow, fog and EVEN reflective surfaces can and HAVE been done in UNREALED. Email me if you would like some examples of these effects.

I'll throw at you an example of a missing effect. Rotating sky... The Unreal engine greatly supports moving skys, in its skyboxes, and I think they are a vital element to an engaging atmosphere. I've not seen such a component in radiant, nor in any of the many maps that have been produced by it.

Radiant may be more widely used, but you must consider the older and much bigger and infamous company behind it, ID! I welcome comments.

Grets Sirob
06-17-2002, 10:16 AM
Even if you are just making a comparison, it doesn't matter. This is jk2, not unreal or whatever. Moving skies don't matter, you gotta ask yourself, how many times have you ever been fighting in a ctf or ffa battle and look up, and suddenly think:
tsk, that sky isn't moving, what a dumb game.
It's all about gameplay, not better graphics, not moving skies, and most certainly not moving skies. And furthermore, this is a jk2 based forum, so, you will find people who care more about jk2 than unrealed. I'm sorry for my behavior before, but this really doesn't belong(or is wanted) in this forum. I've personally never played those games, but I do know that this game is the best game I've ever played. Again, sorry if I've offended you...




:gungan: Mesa stupid!

volrathxp
06-17-2002, 10:21 AM
I have my doubts considering all the effects you've mentioned rain, snow, fog and EVEN reflective surfaces can and HAVE been done in UNREALED. Email me if you would like some examples of these effects.

show me an example. please. Because I've never seen a true reflective surface done in UT. Only in Q3 have I seen such a thing.

Firstly I was merely making a comparison. Saying things like 'die now' or 'leave' are inappropriate, and I have just as much right to be here as you, if not more (i.e. staff member)

Understandable. You do have as much right to be here as we do.

Also: Moving skies can be done. It's called a shader effect. It can be done it's just the time taken to create a great skybox that will take advantage of it and the shader code. Actually. that might be something for me to try out on this small little duel map i'm working on.

And yes I have mapped in UnrealEd and i never saw anything even mentioning rain, snow or fog.

and personally, I really like ID. They make good software and earn a good living doing it.

you can reach me further at volrath_the_insane@msn.com or on aims at dysfunktionalX.

btw on a lighter note... i didn't want my post to come off as offensive or nothing, just hoping that you didn't feel flamed by my post. I am glad this is a conversation of opinions about mapping editors and they're pros and cons and has only almost turned into a flaming contest once. Let's keep it that way.

volrath

Smood
06-17-2002, 11:15 AM
Firstly, thanks gret for being civilized. I respect your opinion even though I may disagree with some of it.

I will say that jediknight 2 is currently the best game ever! This is part of the reason I'am here!

Originally posted by volrathxp


show me an example. please. Because I've never seen a true reflective surface done in UT. Only in Q3 have I seen such a thing.



Understandable. You do have as much right to be here as we do.

Also: Moving skies can be done. It's called a shader effect. It can be done it's just the time taken to create a great skybox that will take advantage of it and the shader code. Actually. that might be something for me to try out on this small little duel map i'm working on.

And yes I have mapped in UnrealEd and i never saw anything even mentioning rain, snow or fog.

and personally, I really like ID. They make good software and earn a good living doing it.

you can reach me further at volrath_the_insane@msn.com or on aims at dysfunktionalX.

btw on a lighter note... i didn't want my post to come off as offensive or nothing, just hoping that you didn't feel flamed by my post. I am glad this is a conversation of opinions about mapping editors and they're pros and cons and has only almost turned into a flaming contest once. Let's keep it that way.

volrath

After about June.25 we'll get in contact, I can show you some examples of rain, fog, reflective surfaces, the works.

ID is an incredible game company, who is rivaled by few. I personally think that no one will ever beat the mastermind John Carmack, maker of the first 3D game ever! That is quite an accomplishment.

DOOM III, will most likely be the most dominant game ever, just as its great ancestor was, when the 3D world was first created.

well... thats it for now I suppose...

*Continues to dream about Star Wars Galaxies*

volrathxp
06-17-2002, 01:04 PM
After about June.25 we'll get in contact, I can show you some examples of rain, fog, reflective surfaces, the works.

sure. good deal.

The Truthful Liar
06-17-2002, 05:38 PM
ID is using a version of Radiant for making their maps in Doom 3. (God I wish I could get my hands on that... Game and editor alike ;))

RichDiesal
06-18-2002, 02:56 AM
Yeah, it'll kick some ass when someone actually makes a game with that engine... :p

The Truthful Liar
06-18-2002, 03:08 AM
Originally posted by RichDiesal
Yeah, it'll kick some ass when someone actually makes a game with that engine... :p

You mean when someone makes a map don't you? Also since Doom 3 is only going to be for Single Player gaming, then there is some doubt as to wether you'll be able to use Custom Created Maps in Doom 3 or not.

RichDiesal
06-18-2002, 04:32 AM
I would doubt iD would cause company-suicide in this day and age by not making a map editor. I mean hell, even Wolfenstein3D had a map editor. :p