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FalloutGod
06-17-2002, 01:40 PM
I think absorb should be removed, its totally cheap. You shouldn't

be able to not be affected by force powers. If not removed it

should be atleast tweaked so it doesnt last as long. Thats just

my opinion and plz dont reply with flaming posts. Comments are

welcome, morons are not.


PS: Im not whinning just telling my opinion.

X R Kun
06-17-2002, 01:42 PM
Methinks Raven should not let players use force powers during absorb. Much like using a ysalmiri. Its very annoying if u cant push a guy when hes gripping/absorb

DarkHarlequin
06-17-2002, 01:45 PM
your overlooking drain.... if absorb is gone then the bloody light side will suxor a whole lot agenst sith guys.... absorb is put up so they both players have to use their saber skills to kill eachother like in episode two when yoda absorbed all of dooku's lightning attacks and dooku said we have to use our saber skills blah blah.

dont whine just pull out your saber and chop his arm off with yur l33t ski||z! :lsduel:

FalloutGod
06-17-2002, 01:49 PM
Originally posted by X R Kun
Methinks Raven should not let players use force powers during absorb. Much like using a ysalmiri. Its very annoying if u cant push a guy when hes gripping/absorb


I Think X R Kun gots a good point, maybe raven should do that.

Fossil25
06-17-2002, 06:29 PM
what would a yalasalmi be for then?

I don't see any unbalance when it comes to absorb. Without absorb, the darkside is practically the only feasible side to play, unless you want to roleplay. Lightning against a darksider can be drained. What's a lightsider gonna do? Heal?
If you ask me, the lightside is created as a counter to the darkside. It's the defensive side. when 2 lightsiders meet, it quite evens out and has to go down to saber fighting. When 2 darksiders meet, they can circle strafe (something only practical in games) and lightning/grip/drain each other to death.
Then again, if u make an absorber have no chance to use other force powers, than absorb is purely for cancelling out darkside effects without giving any advantage. While darksiders can vulture and lightning or drain, and grip throw the slower reacting people, the lightsider is just standing there.
hey at least absorb isn't reflect or something !! would be nice taking in all the lightning, then unleashing them all back on the darksider.

The Truthful Liar
06-17-2002, 06:51 PM
Yeah but people who use Light force - absorb ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS (especially in fall-type levels like Nar Streets) just spam Pull/Push against darksiders. Very un-jedi like, isn't it? :p ;)

<>Phant0m<>
06-17-2002, 07:44 PM
I dont think Absorb has any bad points, it promotes saber fighting, so thats all good IMO. :eyeraise:

The Truthful Liar
06-17-2002, 07:57 PM
But most absorb users just abuse their power and pull/Backstab continously, I would know since I used to be a Darkie - now I'm playing as light due to the fact that v1.03 makes Dark forces useless especially against 1on1 lightie.

ellowyne
06-17-2002, 08:49 PM
In my own opinion,

Absorb is one of the most useful skills for Lightsiders. I know, it does get extremely fustrating when you can't do nothing to him but attack with your lightsaber (or weapon if you are one of those types).

Of course you can wait for him/her to run out of force, because usually they leave it on, and if they don't, catch em with a lightning blast or a push/pull & backstab.

Well, if you can't beat em, find a way to. So well, Use drain on them. I figured that drain gives them no force. So well, just tap your drain button to see if they still have absorb on, and if not, hey, free hp, and less force for them. But hey, that is just me, you may have your style, do share!

-Ellowyne

striderx2048
06-17-2002, 09:05 PM
dont f*ck with absorb
just jack all the other powers up
nerfing is not the solution

Pedro The Hutt
06-17-2002, 09:24 PM
Well I also agree on that absorb should be kept in, many a times it has saved my skin against a lightning/drain freak. And as it's been said, it is part of the nature of the light side for such a power to exist. Remember "A Jedi uses the Force, for knowledge and defence". So it seems natural that they'd absorb an enemy's attack to defend themselves. And besides this.. I can only agree with what my fellow absorb defenders have said.

Swingin'Baws
06-17-2002, 09:36 PM
.....is way too powerful against Dark Jedis.

I know, because like AB_Legion up above, I too was a darkie until 1.03 came out. Although infinately more fun, when 1-on-1 with a light jedi, a dark jedi does not stand a chance. They just get pulled and backstabbed.

So, im now a light sider, and I find myself (rather annoyingly) beginning to spam the pull/backstab move.

Folk complain, you make an effort to stop, and the same folk that complain pull & backstab you! I mean, WTF?

Its "DO, OR HAVE DONE TO".

Oh, yeah, back on topic. Absorb is too powerful. When I first went light, I was surprised at how little force it actually uses to initiate, and how little force it uses when running.

And if some1 grabs you, and you turn absorb on, you get more than 50% of your force pull back almost straight away!

Perhaps absorb should use slightly more force to keep running........

Fossil25
06-17-2002, 09:46 PM
you are complaining that absorb is abused, and that it gives them a chance for pushing and pulling but even without abosorb on, they can do the same thing. It doesn't help in their offence towards you. It merely defends them.
I also always play dark, until recently when i felt that it was getting pretty lame being a darksider using lightning/drain/grip. It got too easy especially since not everybody in the server knows counters. It did frustrate me when i couldn't do anything with my force when they had absorb on, but that's why i decided to go train my saber and i think i've gotten better...at least i prefer NF servers now.

Imagine is absorb was reduced.
Darksiders would basically be able to use lightning and grip, and drain, on anyone unless they had absorb on. Yet with absorb you are offfering, the lightsider is almost equal to the darksider except that he's wasting force powers. Moreover, if saber throw was introduced, that would mean that the darksider can still use saber throw to deal physical damage while the lightsider cannot.
Once his force runs out, or he switches it off, the darksider, upon knowing so, can use darkside force without restrain.
Protect is used by few. I think it substitutes some force for health, so this isn't exactly very wise to use unless you're about to be hit real hard and you knew it in advance. Mind Trick isn't that great. I have never been killed by a mind tricker. Maybe it's luck. Maybe it's not. Heal is useful, but requires half the force for 30 health if i remember right. A well placed drain can easily give you as much as a Bacta Canister could while removing opponents' force. Effectively, Absorb is a substitute, but more of a counter, for lightning and grip and toning it down is merely making darksiders too powerful. Sure...the darkside is supposed to be enticing. But in MP, we want balance especially since many oppose role-playing and just want to have fun, something not wrong at all. As for making absorb last shorter, it was lengthened by the patch i believe. Why should it be shortened when it's passive in nature and hardly affects anyone except those who try to do something to the absorber? Considering lightning, a powerful force tool, can deal enough damage to kill a player with full health (and probably 25 shields) and has a wide arc requiring no skill in aiming, it's pretty hard to say absorb is overpowered.

How many kills have you gotten thru lightning and grip/throw? How many have you gotten thru usage of absorb?
How many times has drain saved you and given you a certain advantage over your opponent(s)?
How many times has Heal done as much for you?

As they say, just find a counter or a way out. Besides, the push/pull down pits is only as useful in situations where grip is useful. Otherwise, the worst they'd do is spam pull/backswing. But without absorb, you could have gotten that same treatment...that is unless you drain every single player you meet or have absorb yourself.

D.L.
06-17-2002, 10:00 PM
Lets look at it like this.

Light Side Powers and the Dark Side Counter

Push countered by Pull

Absorb is a counter to Drain and Lightning.

Pull countered by Push

Backstab countered by GETTING HELL OUT OF THE WAY!!!

I have had no problems with any of these online. I've always been lightside. Heal is next to useless now but I didn't complain. I adjusted. Do the same please :)

Hirogen
06-17-2002, 10:44 PM
Originally posted by FalloutGod
I think absorb should be removed, its totally cheap.
Originally posted by D.L.
Lets look at it like this.

Light Side Powers and the Dark Side Counter

Push countered by Pull

Absorb is a counter to Drain and Lightning.
Ive only been playin for a few days but 1 thing i have noticed - Absorb is unrivalled by any other force power be it light or dark. Drain doesnt counter absorb. Fact is there isnt a force power that has the potency of absorb making it impossible to play the game how u want to. Dark side has a huge disadvantage because of absorb. A player can maintain absorb indefinately because hes always gonna be pushed/pulled or gripped at some point, filling his force meter. I have to agree with FalloutGod to some degree, removed no, but take some of its potency away yes. Using absorb should consume way more force power.

striderx2048
06-17-2002, 11:10 PM
slightly increase inital cost and maintaince
mind trick?
would need to increase saber dmg but if you are being mind tricked, you dont auto defend

<>Phant0m<>
06-17-2002, 11:21 PM
IMHO Absorb is perfect atm as fossil25 has explained, If u have a problem with it, turn on your lightsabre and strike down the person who uses it, simple.

Absorb is the whole idea of the light side, no agression just defence and sabre skills, not including the backstab as its cheep and requires zero skill thats why Kal-El does it :p

Once the backstabbing situation has been resolved (patched) then we should look at the force power balances, bcus alot of peepz are blaming the pull force power for the backsweep problem, i personally think pull is fine as it is as i only use it 2 slow peeps down and if im fighting them i pull and hack down at em(very blockable not like backsweep), so i get longer fights rather than dispatch the enemy with the gay backsweep, and if anyones dueled me then they know wot im like. :eyeraise:

Dark Begger
06-17-2002, 11:31 PM
lol...absorb. I don't see why you dark jedi are complaining...does absorb hurt you? no...Then what's the problem? Would you rather have it where you can spam lightning and grip? I see I see...that makes a lot of sense huh? LOL

The only thing I can see it having an advantage right now is used with ah pull/backstab combo, but with fanmod out and numerous other mods out, that is gone..so I think it's evened out again...

Cal-Gon Gin
06-17-2002, 11:51 PM
1) Its cheesy, not "cheasy"
2) you can't absorb/grip
3) with all the bitching, its a wonder we can do anything on the servers beyond looking at each other...

Oh, wait, you're monitor is larger than mine, unfair! Raven should make the next patch so that everyone gets to play in a windowed 14" display at 30 fps.

:rolleyes:

Dark Begger
06-18-2002, 12:07 AM
exactly calgon..that's exaclty what will happen. everyoen should just..SHUT UP! lol

Darth Kaan
06-18-2002, 12:10 AM
I have been playing the U104mod that eliminates one hit kills (IE: Wont kill someone with full health and shields)and was thinking GREAT!

Now force powers are being disputed.

Here we go again...

w1ggl3s
06-18-2002, 02:33 AM
Several things need to be done to absorb

Drain needs to become half unnerfed so its effective.

Absorb needs to Not be invisible.

Absorb needs to Either

A: cost a hell of alot more

B: Cost over time needs to be a Hell of alot more.

Absorb Effects six other Offensive Force pwrs. Has Absolutly No cost. ANd is a bait trap without anyone even trying anything.

Now ask yourself how fair is that?

Along with absorb ROlling needs to cost atleast a bar of mana.

Do you find yourself rolling around in rl? no a: it hurts B; dont get as far as just walking quickly

This is a roll used by jedi knights. So make rolling take up force pwr. I think thats a big part of how come absorb is so pwrfull

People can lag roll with amunity and even speed cant keep up with them.

Wiggles

Cal-Gon Gin
06-18-2002, 03:27 AM
Originally posted by w1ggl3s
Several things need to be done to absorb

Drain needs to become half unnerfed so its effective.

What does that have to do with absorb?

Absorb needs to Not be invisible.

It isn't when its absorbing. It also makes noise--listen for it.

Absorb Effects six other Offensive Force pwrs. Has Absolutly No cost.

Nonsense.

Now ask yourself how fair is that?

No offense, but you sound like a frustrated Dark Sider.

Along with absorb ROlling needs to cost atleast a bar of mana.

Oh ffs...

Masonis
06-18-2002, 04:46 AM
Absorb needs to be left the hell alone. There are other ways to kill lightsiders beyond the simple spamming of lightning, grip and pull/backsweep.

Dark Begger
06-18-2002, 04:54 AM
This is quite hilarious, backstab/sweep was fixed with some mods that came out and now already there are other complaints. Just be quiet already please? This is the worst one of all, because absorb doesn't even hurt you dark siders! I don't see how this gives light jedi an advantage. Way I see it, if there was no absorb you dark siders would have an advantage where you can just lightning a guy to death. It is balanced, with absorb, what is virtually happening is that the light jedi made it so it coems down to saber skills to see who wins. I can't believe you guys are complaining about a NON offensive power. You must have lost things to complain about.

DannyJAllTheWay
06-18-2002, 05:46 AM
I personally don't like absorb. I didn't like it in 1.02 and I really don't like it in 1.03. They made it worse in 1.03.

Redwyng
06-18-2002, 05:49 AM
Absorb should NOT be nerfed. It is fine as it is. What needs to happen is the dark side needs some sort of counter to it - in JK1, both grip and throw were great counters to absorb. I'd like to see them put throw back in, but integrate it with grip - you grip an item, then hold your crosshair over an enemy and it throws it at him. :)

And actually, decreasing the mana cost for drain WOULD affect absorb slightly - right now, you actually use more mana than you drain, nullifying any force advantage you have over your enemy. In 1.02, drain left you with FAR more force than your enemy, preventing him from pulling/pushing, etc. If drain is unnerfed so that it can be used to put the force advantage in your favor, which is pretty much what absorb does (since the enemy can't use force against you).

edinflames
06-18-2002, 05:51 AM
absorb is the only power that makes the light side even worth taking.

even mind trickers max absorb.

why?

cos absorb prevents the following:

push-pull backstab(dont get me started)
Lighting(remeber the LLamers on 1.02? so many of them)
drain(irritating)
choke(the single most irritating bitch of a move ever)


ppl who h8 absorb r the same ppl who lack the skill to kill without offensive forcing sum1 to point of death.

Sutek
06-18-2002, 06:40 AM
Oh good grief.

I knew this would happen. This would have been the complaints had an official patch been released, which modified the backstabs.

Always they will find something to complain about. Methinks I may just hang up my f***ing lightsaber and go play something else. Sure I'll miss the great fun I had with the quite excellent melee combat (try playing Morrowind sometime...you begin to appreciate JK2 even more after combat in that game), and some of the people I've met online. But the rest of you? Not a whit - I'm sick to death of seeing "this is overpowered", "that 's too powerful...this suxors", "patch it Raven, my willy's too small".

Just stop it, act like adults and then maybe you'll be treated like them. If you're only a kid, try acting like an adult - you'll find people respect your opinions more. This game is *NOT* Quake 3, but this community has become all that I hated about that game.

Kurgan
06-18-2002, 07:24 AM
THE FORCE is cheesy, get used to it. That's why Jango Fett got his ass handed to him twice by Jedi!!

Then again, this probably should go in "Game Feedback"

Tyrion
06-18-2002, 07:43 AM
I dont mind absorb...except when they pull-backstab with it.Dark Users have no way to counter that....sure, if the guy didnt have absorb I could push him back or grip him...but with absorb your only way to survive is to run like hell....

Edit-and I agree without absorb light users would be toast...

Sutek
06-18-2002, 07:52 AM
Technically three times if you include Boba Fett's death in RotJ, but then that's a VERY technically :>

Fossil25
06-18-2002, 02:44 PM
......

absorb has no faults...


see...if it wasn't invisible when not absorbing, everybody knows you are using it and they won't even attempt to use force on you. Also, absorb is passive and it shouldn't let the world world know...protect has a green beam because it's a shield...lightning looks like lightning...in the fan's mod, grip doesn't have the crappy red light...why should absorb beam out blue light?
No one complains about absorb unless they are darksiders who rely heavily on their force powers. And i was one of them, still am but less i hope.
AS for rolling...everyone can roll...and it's made faster (than in SP) to allow escape...otherwise it'll be useless...

edinflames
06-18-2002, 03:18 PM
if mp has sp rolling then there wud be no point cos ud just get booted about wen ur on the floor.

sp rolling is good for single player but as u may hav noticed sp is not mp dispite the exelent saber combat.

BlackDove
06-18-2002, 03:49 PM
Absorb is great. Nobody can't do anything to me with force, so I can easily pull/backslash them.

Redwing
06-18-2002, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Redwyng
Absorb should NOT be nerfed. It is fine as it is. What needs to happen is the dark side needs some sort of counter to it - in JK1, both grip and throw were great counters to absorb. I'd like to see them put throw back in, but integrate it with grip - you grip an item, then hold your crosshair over an enemy and it throws it at him. :)

And actually, decreasing the mana cost for drain WOULD affect absorb slightly - right now, you actually use more mana than you drain, nullifying any force advantage you have over your enemy. In 1.02, drain left you with FAR more force than your enemy, preventing him from pulling/pushing, etc. If drain is unnerfed so that it can be used to put the force advantage in your favor, which is pretty much what absorb does (since the enemy can't use force against you).

A) Your name scares me. :D

B) I don't get drain...but that's just me I guess...

C) Be glad there's no Reflect that Yoda used in Ep 2. That would be interesting to see against lightning. I think Yoda in AotC basically showed the advantages of the Light side...

Fossil25
06-18-2002, 07:55 PM
yes...be glad there is no reflect as i said earlier
:D :D
besides, erflect is technically easier than absorb...absorbing is taking in the dark side force powers and converting them to the light side force powers...that requires skill to take it in, and skill to convert the raging force to passive calm force...without the converting, it's just taken in and wasted...BUT BUT BUT as Newton's law of conservation of energy states, energy is neither created or destroyed...uh...so if not converted, u could actually return it back to the darksider...
now if that was available in the game, then i won't mind the whining cause yeah it's gonna be pretty powerful...

also, i don't think absorb had to be toggled ON and OFF in star wars...if you're some light side jedi master, absorb is probably always surrounding you...

SteelFury
06-18-2002, 09:10 PM
absorb is fine as it is thank you very much.
seeing as its the most offective way of combating the pull/backstab lamers. i h8 those ppl.
its been said b4 on here above too. if im using absorb then the only way my opponant is gonna get anywhere is to fight toe to toe with me. lol and they usually lose like that.
SteelFury.

Chewie Bakker
06-18-2002, 10:07 PM
Attack of The Clones, P347

More lightning poured forth from Dooku's hand, but Yoda continued to catch it and turn it, and seemed to become even more settled in his defensive posture.

"Much to learn you still have," Yoda remarked.

Dooku disengaged the futile lightning assault. "It is obvious this contest will not be decided by our knowledge of the Force, but by our skills with the lightsaber."

Yoda reverently drew out his lightsaber, its green blade humming to life.




Absorb is a Jedi's only defence against the offensive Sith powers. Any respectable lightsider wouldn't use absorb and the pull+back-stab/-swing.

Seems to me that the pull + backstab's the problem. Perhaps the auto-defense against pull should be jacked up rather than taking away a lightsider's only defense against the dark offensive powers. Jedi are all about defense after all.

The Force will be with you always.

LightningRod
06-19-2002, 12:51 AM
Well, This is just my opinion but..........
Absorb is a bit overpowered, and doesn't really have a counter force. Light side users can just slap on absorb, and run around without a worry of getting pulled or pushed, and thats fine.

But the problem is...
when you use absorb in ctf or ffa, and the game is saber only, there really isn't much of a way to stop someone from turning 180 and backing themselves up like cars about to park.

Another problem is.....
when you use absorb with guns like flechets and rockets.......
try playing ctf or ffa against others that use guns and slap on absorb.
Unless you do the same.......there is no real way to stop them.
Absorb needs some more balance to it. That or introduce a new force power that could counter it.

Sutek
06-19-2002, 01:39 AM
The simplest way to counter such people is to pund the living sh** out of them. On the other hand, I tend to play on saber only servers, so I don't consider myself too qualified to comment on vs guns w/absorb.

On saber only servers, people who turn on absorb and run backwards towards me suffer the same fate as those who simply run backwards towards me - I use a wide variety of tactics from a quick swipe and flip backwards on their sade as they go past, to kicking them onto their arse and backswinging them into last month. I don't use pull/backstab because I don't find it to be very effective, combined with the fact that I enjoy "proper" saber combat.

Absorb is the only useful power against power like grip, drain and lightning - all the offensive DS powers. It provides almost no protection against pull/push while in the air (so if you are alert you can still use them), or against other LS powers.

That being said, it *might* be too cheap to use, but I'd prefer to see some of the dark side powers upped first before passing judgment. I'd like to see the damage on grip pushed up a lot more, but it's maneouverability rate (speed of moving victim) dropped some (you're CHOKING them, not playing swings). It still needs to retain enough speed to move them sideways to drop them off a ledge.
Drain's cost should be reduced to it's original level, but then the rate of force drain decreased as well. In other words, it drains the same amount for the same cost, but it takes longer to do it. There should be enough time for ordinary human reflexes to react to it.
Lightning is fine. Probably. It's pretty damn powerful as it stands. The only other power I'd adjust is heal - IMHO, EITHER increased cost or decreased healing was enough, both makes it less than useful, especially against my suggestion for Drain.

Compare those changes, which all up DS powers significantly, to Absorb - at worst it might want a *slightly* increased rate of force use (between current and 1.02 levels).

IronJedi Kaga
06-19-2002, 01:58 AM
The problem with absorb which I have felt was overpowered since day 1 is that it neuters the darkside to the point where the lightside player has more offensive options. All of the offensive darkside powers are blocked, as well as the offensive neutral powers. Forcewise this leaves the darkside player with saber throw, and kicking from force jumps. The lightside player on the otherhand has the same options as the darkside player, as well as being able to use push and pull. As for the push/pull effect in the air, its reduced a great deal when absorb is on. Dark rage, sure I can use it if I want to lose a great deal of health and be slower after using it.

For those of you arguing, it makes light and darkside fights about the saber, your in denial. I'm sure that the lighsider wont take advantage of being the only one able to push/pull in a duel.

In weapons vs saber, its still unbalanced as the lightsider can fire away without worrying about having to lose the weapon while the darksider will get the weapon pulled right away.

If absorb had the reverse ysmalri effect, aka cant use any other force while its on, it would be more balanced. The lightside player still has the defensive advantage as all the neutral offensive powers and the offensive darkside powers are still negated. They still get force back from the negated attacks. They just wont gain the offensive ADVANTAGE that the current version of absorb gives.

Also there's no need to alter drain, it was intended to be used for healing, which it does just perfectly now. Changing it back towards 1.02 would just make people go around using it for offense, not for healing.

Masonis
06-19-2002, 03:50 AM
Only problem with that argument is that with absorb constantly on, lightsiders will run out of force very quickly if they try to pull/backstab repeatedly.

When this happens the lightsider will be helpless if the darksider has refrained from lashing out with force powers while absorb was up; he can now attack because the lightsider will have exhausted his mana and either cannot activate absorb or can only run it for a few seconds.

Celedhel
06-19-2002, 04:03 AM
Just do what I do! JOIN SERVERS WITH ONLY JUMP AND SABER THROW! its the only wait to stop the bitching and complaining I have found out. Cuz then what is anybody gonna be complaining about.. "You sUx0rz! You wouldn't win so much if you weren't a pansy hitting me in the back and all!" ?? ya know!? so just find some servers with just JUMP and SABER THROW and things will be alll niiiiiceee! whoope.. BTW THIS IS IMO!

Guardian Omega
06-19-2002, 04:53 AM
Heh, I have a counter to that absorb and gunning trick, although not that effective. I just crank up speed and rage at max and go chase their ass! Since they dont have the defensive edge with the saber, they wont block the hits. Recommend using medium though................(AND MUST HAVE FAST REFLEXIVES!)

solo2070
06-19-2002, 07:08 AM
I am a dark jedi and i don;t see any problem with force absorb i have usesd the light side maney times just to try it anad in ctf or team ffa it is nice to have team heal so i get it and in the proces i get to use force absorb and sure it takes cvery little force to use. but if you use push or pull of speed (in ctrf to get away) your force goes bye bye and i still get killed by the lighting adn caught by choke when it shuts off and still get drained so don;t ever get to use it but i have found to be a light jedi you muset use your saber aonly to win teh batles and some people have found there move that kills others faster and alot ofpeople use that back stab so waht why don't we all just quit complaining about all of theis and just play the game and let your sabers do the talking i love to challenge because you can;t use the force and it is nothinf but yoru sabers that do the talking. but any way me as a dark jedi i go up againts light siders ll the time adn i the force absorbe is not that big of a problem. one reason is that i am not a baby that hast to rely on lighting and grip to win i use my saber i just use the force to stop them or hurt but it is not my primary way of atacking i just every so ofton push my lighting button adn if i don;t hear theat very noticable noise i drain as much as i can so they can;t use it any more then i hit them with my saber wich i had been doing all along all teh while i still draqin them so they can't use it . so every body there is teh way i conter it so why don;t you all quit acting like a bunch of wusses and find yuou r own way or jsut use that shiney object in your hand called a light saber and just deal with the parts of the game that you don't like

IronJedi Kaga
06-19-2002, 08:17 AM
Originally posted by Masonis
Only problem with that argument is that with absorb constantly on, lightsiders will run out of force very quickly if they try to pull/backstab repeatedly.

When this happens the lightsider will be helpless if the darksider has refrained from lashing out with force powers while absorb was up; he can now attack because the lightsider will have exhausted his mana and either cannot activate absorb or can only run it for a few seconds.

The thing is absorb is invisible so odds are that some force power will be used on them prior to the lightside running out of power. In addition it only takes 1 successful pull backstab to kill a person.

This is also pointless in several game modes such as CTF. Waiting for the person to run out of mana often means its too late to stop a cap.

Skuttle24
06-19-2002, 09:02 AM
Hey...Ya know what's happening here? all u darkside lightening/grip spamming wussies are just going to complain about every lightside power that actually works until u can get Raven to patch it so it's as weak as heal is now.:snear: :eyeraise:

However, for fairness, methinks that drain should cost less mana but drain slower, so it actually has a use. Heal should also be put back to its original position in the amount of HP healed, though not in force cost.:cool:



Don't try and kill the power just cuz u can't spam lightning.
U must learn balance.:yoda:

MasterD-LeyAmas
06-19-2002, 09:34 AM
This whole argument seems to be getting really old about now, but just as a suggestion:

-drain should still work while absorb is on, only at about 1/4 the power, so a dark jedi can still heal *a little bit* while dueling, less than heal, but enough to work

-push and pull should work as they normally would while absorb is on, therefore eliminating the pull-backstab unbalance


This way, it would make absorb simply about leveling the field. I use absorb myself, and because it does leave a dark jedi helpless to heal while saber dueling, it does create a *very* small inbalance just for while it is being used.

It seems that the main complaint of the darksiders is the cheap lightsiders who use the pull-backstab, so if you make it so that push/pull can be used against the cheap lightsider, it should make all things equal.

:ben::saberb:

Chewie Bakker
06-19-2002, 10:05 AM
LightningRod might have a point about Absorb and guns. I use Absorb for defense so am unsure.

If Absorb takes away the ability to push away rockets then that's just wrong, but I'm unsure on the matter. I use Absorb only to counter Drain, Grip, Lightning, etc...

<shrug>

:gben: The Force will be with you, always.

ryudom
06-19-2002, 01:40 PM
i was fighting a guy today using the old drain lightning combo and he was really really hard even with absorb, i don't think its unbalanced in that way

Masonis
06-19-2002, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by IronJedi Kaga


The thing is absorb is invisible so odds are that some force power will be used on them prior to the lightside running out of power. In addition it only takes 1 successful pull backstab to kill a person.

This is also pointless in several game modes such as CTF. Waiting for the person to run out of mana often means its too late to stop a cap.

The sound is enough of a giveaway to keep you from wasting Force. The only time you might not be able to tell who is using absorb will be in a crowded blind melee on an FFA server.

Well, not even another lightsider can stop a FC running with absorb(by using Pull), but you can use speed or speed/rage on the dark side to catch them.

Masonis
06-19-2002, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by ryudom
i was fighting a guy today using the old drain lightning combo and he was really really hard even with absorb, i don't think its unbalanced in that way

Exactly....I play both light and dark regularly and find this strategy to be effective against lightsiders. I'll also mention that while playing on the light side, I use Absorb very sparingly... I rely on being able to flip out of the way or kick my opponents when pulled down. 9 out of 10 times I can escape being hit with backstabs if Pulled to the floor. I only use absorb in quick bursts when someone's trying to throw me off a ledge with Grip, or really hosing me down with the lightning.

edinflames
06-19-2002, 03:10 PM
if absorb was nerfed then lightside would have NOTHING against darksiders.

simple as that lighting gip drain are 3 moves that whtout absorb lightsiders wud get wooped around.

Chewie Bakker
06-19-2002, 10:38 PM
Jedi Master Yoda The Empire Strikes Back
A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence. Never for attack.


Lightside isn't meant to be offensive, and Jedi aren't meant to carry blasters (or Imperial Heavy Repeaters). If Raven take this Jedi vs Merc thing to the next step in the next patch <crosses fingers> at least part of the absorb problem would be fixed. As for the backstab, maybe restrict the pull so that players can't turn 180 degrees after a pull. Backstab was meant to catch those sneaking behind you off guard.

I didn't see Obi-Wan and Darth Maul running backwards and trying to backswing/sweep each other...

:gben: The Force will be with you, always.

Fossil25
06-19-2002, 11:20 PM
why? why? why?
If absorb is really causing you so much trouble, then indeed you are relying too heavily on your force powers...possibly meaning you are spamming darkside force powers...possibly...
i have been playing darkside for a long time and i switched over only because i wanted to try out the supposed 'right' side and because it was giving me easy kills with my darkside powers sometimes while i wanted to restrain myself and train saber. Although those with absorb were harder to fight, they were not invincible...i fought them with saber and didn't rely on using pull or pushes to win. That led me to find that i was actually weak in saber and getting most of my kills thru force spamming, another reason i came over to lightside.
Fight them saber to saber if they have absorb and most players out there won't use it for backswinging you...as far as i have found. It requires more effort playing a lightsider than a darksider because the force powers don't help you as much in offence. I have gotten countless of cheap kills using grip/throw, lightning, and along with drain, it makes it easier.

Absorb is fine !!!

If you didn't know they had absorb on, it only affect you once u use a force power on them. Being a darksider (as i doubt lightsiders would complain about absorb), if you use push, you're probably trying to push them down pits or on the ground for an easy hit. Pull would likely mean you wanna BS them. Lightning means you were probably gonna use all your stored force on him and so in NO way would absorb be considered overpowered here. Grip means you wanna throw them off or saber throw them...NO way is absorb cheating here. Drain...he can't possible let you drain him forever to engage in a saber fight where he has practically unlimited health rite?
sooooooooooooo....what is the problem??

All you can complain against are lightside absorb-pull/BSers...
but in the first place, everybody complains against pull/BSers...absorb is not the cause of the problem

Fossil25
06-19-2002, 11:24 PM
just to add, i only use absorb in situations where i notice, or efel there is a risk of me being 'force attacked', mainly in maps where i can fall down and die. I don't want to intentionally leave myself open for a grip which i can counter by switching on absorb (which i might as well do earlier), or do a push/pull which requires more force. Also, i can do absorb AND push/pull once i notice them attempting a grip and it's NOT unfair because there is a high chance they didn't grip me just to deal choking damage but were intending a fling off, saber throw, or getting team-mates (in team games) to kill me off. Now some lightsider must have some defence against that.

Isildur29
06-20-2002, 11:39 PM
omg, why don't we just say this like it is:

"I don't like absorb b/c it takes away the spam advantage that I've grown to love using lightning/grip/drain. What is the world coming to when I don't get a definitive, unreversable advantage from using the dark side force attacks!??"


If some schmuk is lightning spamming - I have no problem using absorb to get a force imbalance and backstabbing them.

If some schmuk is making a living grip throwing people off ledges - I have no problem backstabbing this person too.

Fight like a cheese, die like a cheese.


For the rest of you who don't depend on lightning/grip/drain to get your frags - well, absorb isn't that much of a problem for you is it?

DarthVenom
06-21-2002, 06:17 AM
I think absorb is good, specially in the push or grip then fall to your doom levels - its the only way to counter those powers..

IronJedi Kaga
06-21-2002, 10:57 AM
First off I personally have no problem with absorb stopping the darkside forces. However with that said some of you seem to have been on the wrong side of a lightning or grip attack seeing as there has been claims that the dark side powers are cheap.

Secondly, my main complaint is not that aborsb stops the darkside powers, it is that it gives the light side the offensive advantage in basically all scenarios. When the lightside has more offensive force options than the darkside there's a flaw in gameplay. Hence I'd like to see the reverse ysmalri effect applied to absorb. In other words, it'd still block lightning, pull, push, grip, and drain, it just wouldnt let the lightside player use any other force powers while absorb was active. The result would be a return of the offensive advantage to the darkside with regards to attacks with the force. Darkside players would be able to saber throw (easily blockable) , and attempt kicks on players using absorb while lightside players would not be able to use any of the offensive force powers while absorb was active. As of now the lightside can do the above, in addition to using push/pull which as I have previously said gives them a huge advantage.

HellFyre69
06-21-2002, 11:18 AM
well without absorb, then the darkies will have the advantage.. I think absorb is just fine,and should stay, dunno the complain

Twins of Doom
06-21-2002, 12:08 PM
Yeah but people who use Light force - absorb ALWAYS and I mean ALWAYS (especially in fall-type levels like Nar Streets) just spam Pull/Push against darksiders. Very un-jedi like, isn't it

do we now? i never use absorb and pull/push
i just use absorb to put myself on even playing grounds, so that it's saber fighting, not force power fighting

the light side is defensive, isn't it obvious, protect for the lightsaber, heal to heal (duh!), absorb for force powers, and mind trick to run away like the little coward you are

and making it like the ysalimari would be dumb, haven't you read "I Jedi"? Corran Horn has the ability to counter the force powers and absorb them and then be able to use it against his opponent, exactly like in the game
(another example is vader absorbing han's blaster bolts with his hands....but not really the same situation)

Fossil25
06-21-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by IronJedi Kaga
Secondly, my main complaint is not that aborsb stops the darkside powers, it is that it gives the light side the offensive advantage in basically all scenarios. When the lightside has more offensive force options than the darkside there's a flaw in gameplay. Hence I'd like to see the reverse ysmalri effect applied to absorb. In other words, it'd still block lightning, pull, push, grip, and drain, it just wouldnt let the lightside player use any other force powers while absorb was active. The result would be a return of the offensive advantage to the darkside with regards to attacks with the force. Darkside players would be able to saber throw (easily blockable) , and attempt kicks on players using absorb while lightside players would not be able to use any of the offensive force powers while absorb was active. As of now the lightside can do the above, in addition to using push/pull which as I have previously said gives them a huge advantage.

I already said that in one of my earlier posts i think...but i mentioned this as being a PROBLEM and major DISADVANTAGE to lightsiders, whereas you are saying that without doing this, it is a major ADVANTAGE to them.
As i said, if absorb merely renders darkside powers useless except things like saber throw and kick, then the lightsider would simply NEED absorb to help him almost achieve a balance. He is using up force while using absorb, and all he gets in return is not being vulnerable to some force powers but not being able to use his own force powers. Doesn't that seem very unfair? Basically it puts darksiders at say level 5, lightsiders at level 2, and with absorb they reach level 4. Darksiders win. Balance?
Also, saber throw and kick aren't the only problems. They are directly offensive...but what about those indirectly affecting this problem? A lightsider defending himself with absorb will not be able to force jump, force speed, or force see (assuming he wants to use them). A darksider can. In this manner, the lightsider is merely playing defending with no advantage.

As for you mention of lightside having more offence than darkside meaning a flaw in gameplay, yes in a way i agree. The lightside is not offensive. But you have to see that the offence given to the lightsider is not really force powers. His advantage would still require (assuming no guns) saber skills. Saber skills has no light or dark. The offensive options are merely push and pull. These are neutral in nature and whether or not he has absorb on, it doesn't really affect you as i seriously doubt anyone is fast enough or anyone does a push once he gets pushed or something. Basically, it does not give offence to the lightsider, it just removes offence from the darksider. It may lead to similiar consequences, but they are different things. They way to block a push, standing still, is still very much possible. I'm not sure if i've also said this is earlier posts, but by removing this push/pull advantage from absorbers (like making them able to use all force with absorb on but push and pull), it makes lightsiders to level 5.

What i'm saying is, darksiders are (say) level 5 (numbers are just to show which is higher and which is lower)
Lightsiders without absorb on at that time are level 2
Lightsiders with the absorb you offer are level 4
Lightsiders with absorb (but unable to push/pull) are level 5
Lightsiders with current absorb are level 6

Now, tell me what makes the game fair. Having absorb at level 4, 5, or 6?
If you say anything (4 or 5) but level 6, then please rethink from an angle of making a fair, more or less balanced computer game.
And if you still think anything but level 6, please ask yourself if you are leaning towards the side of relying heavily and heavily on darkside force powers for kills.
If then you still think anything but level 6, then why don't you try playing lightside?
If still, you feel 4 or 5 is better, then i'm sorry, i just simply cannot see your point and i want you to know that i (and probably many others) disagree.

:D

Chewie Bakker
06-21-2002, 11:27 PM
Dooku: 4b$0b $lut!
Yoda: Lightning \/\/|-|03!


<sigh> Where is this gonna end?

If you want to see what the communities view on Absorb check out the Poll (http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63711) and make your vote count.

:gben: (http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63711) The Force will be with you, always.

Obi-Doo
06-22-2002, 01:22 AM
I have noticed that all the complaining darkies have said about this:

"Absorb is too strong, WAAAAAAAAHHHH, i cant use my noob ligthning and grip to get cheap kills on absorbies, wah wah wah, dark side forces should do 20 times more damage so that i could get lotsa cheap frags, waaaah, i should be invunurable so that i could win evrytime, waaaah waaaah WAAAAH!"

I think u get my point.

SpyCatcher
06-22-2002, 02:13 AM
May be a suitable solution be to disable the use of combination of force powers all within seconds of each other.

Example:
push + push + pull

In time "absorb" will have to be dealt with regardless if you agree or not for one simple reason: "everyone will be using it thereby taking away from the true nature of the game.

I would like to see this feature added: when a player gets knocked to the ground they have the ability to use "push" or "tuck n roll"I don't if everyone has noticed when you get push/pulled to the ground you have "no" force powers other than jumping.

Lord_PhilMil
06-22-2002, 02:16 AM
I think it should be removed because it is so hard to grip people and throw them off in to a bottemless pit. Any way iv never seen a person use it in a move.

Fossil25
06-22-2002, 02:28 AM
what do u mean?
you mean you haven't seem people do the grip/throw? or something else?
the grip throw thing is actually very simple to do as long as you aren't countered. But not everyone there knows how to counter it, or not everyone there thinks of countering it once they get gripped. Also, sometimes u get problems like the push didn't take effect when u pressed the button...random problems. It's possible to fling them off before they can counter you too, in some cases it requires only a split second.

spycatcher, i agree with you.
I feel when you fall, you should be able to use force powers like the neutral ones, like push as u said. I think they should also be able to roll like u said. Maybe a roll where u roll on your sides, to your left or right, then recover and get up. That could help solve push/pull BS to some extent.
As for the normal assfighting and BSers thing, ahh...i i hope they solve it. I hate backward walking jedis. But i don't really like the ghoul2 thing at the moment. Not very sure how it works...but like the idea that backswings are unblockable as it allows me to kill somebody quick if they try to hit me from the back. I suppose that was what the moves was meant for. Too bad people had to discover assfighting and flipping 180 degrees to BS. argh

SpyCatcher
06-22-2002, 03:01 AM
Another issue with "absorb" you can not pull a weapon from that player.

striderx2048
06-22-2002, 04:25 AM
Originally posted by SpyCatcher
Another issue with "absorb" you can not pull a weapon from that player.

change weapons and shoot him
jump/evade and use saber throw

Fossil25
06-22-2002, 10:16 PM
I don't think the inability to pull his weapons should be considered a problem in the sense that absorb should be revamped.
While it's hard to move in such a way that you can avoid every shot or be 100% sure you'll never be killed by anything less than a jedi's weapon, it isn't impossible to dodge fire. You can deflect most things, some require quick reaction, some don't. But I'm certain pulling of weapons wasn't supposed to be the most important way to counter weapons.
Personally, i never pull weapons and yet don't get gunned down too easily. Also, that doesn't mean i use offensive force powers to do so. While i may not be able to go head on with him often, it's not too hard to escape and run away.