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BacMeth
06-19-2002, 08:33 PM
bloodriot and absath did the models right?...

ok ... bloodriot.. are you the modeler?
i just wanted to know if youre going to fix the saber problem
i know i know... the fetts prefer guns anyway... but still
the saber points slightly into the wrong direction.. looks like a bone problem.. now if you do the red forward+attack thingy.. then the saber points slightly upwards... lowering the range and giving you a disadvantage in saber fights...
looks like you just assigned the hand vertices to te wrist bones or sumthin like that

plz try to fix that and release an updated version..
model is great.. i wanna use it but i'm a saber dueler and i'd prefer not to have any disadvantages :)

Delmar
06-19-2002, 10:04 PM
preach it, brother

gonk-raider
06-20-2002, 03:21 PM
absath disapeared... claimed that the forum was getting out of control.. kissing his ass too much has given him a swollen ego and is now demanding the star treatment

MessiahErebus
06-20-2002, 04:01 PM
no gonk, you are gravely mistaken. He's just tired of people whining and complaining, about bugs that are

A.) not a skinning problem which is his area of expertise

B.) they are both already aware of

or totally unrelated posts asking how to make a new model and skin, while having none of the programs or tools for doing either. Or people who say "When will this be fixed can i get this now thank you much. my e-mail jfladjfl@jfasfda.com Send to me now, okay I am fine bye now.

I mean after all, if these bugs are such a big deal, no one is stopping you from making your own more perfect models, in fact, im sure everyone will support you.

Arco
06-20-2002, 04:01 PM
well i was working on a replacement for the rather average skin. But then stopped due to the fact that i just couldn't be arsed to do it. You guys still might see a new skin for him tho. I agree about the saber problem bloodriot should fix that.

arco

BacMeth
06-20-2002, 07:32 PM
Originally posted by MessiahErebus
no gonk, you are gravely mistaken. He's just tired of people whining and complaining, about bugs that are

A.) not a skinning problem which is his area of expertise

B.) they are both already aware of

or totally unrelated posts asking how to make a new model and skin, while having none of the programs or tools for doing either. Or people who say "When will this be fixed can i get this now thank you much. my e-mail jfladjfl@jfasfda.com Send to me now, okay I am fine bye now.

I mean after all, if these bugs are such a big deal, no one is stopping you from making your own more perfect models, in fact, im sure everyone will support you.

i hope youre not referring to me...
i didnt whine, i didnt post my email and i asked them kindly...
and i AM working on my own models :D

well anyways.. i hope he'll see this post and fix it..

Delmar
06-20-2002, 09:51 PM
I don't think that kind of discussion will do anything but cause division and "bad blood" in the editing community here..

Klorel
06-20-2002, 10:00 PM
yeah i agree, dont create a competition between skinners (this isnt even a skinning problem). we're all here to give the community some kick arse models to play with. I think the problems should be fixed in the fetts, its a simple tag issue. the D.F.A move and back stab shouldnt be messed up, which is something that should be resolved. this isn't whining, this is... "beta" testing, cause obviously someone forgot to test 2 very commonly used moves. we're not asking the world of them, just that they re-release a great model with everything working correctly.

and hell, while they're at it, maybe they could find a coder to have it so when they jump, their rockets turn on. I dont think bloodriot and absath know how to do it (or they would have done it in the first place) so they could find someone who does. I'm sure there is a coder out there who would love to see the packs work when jumping.

just my 2 cents.

Delmar
06-20-2002, 10:33 PM
at this point, i don't even care about the backpacks, i just want to be able to use the saber correctly. :(

striderx2048
06-20-2002, 10:33 PM
I retract my poll, but who can argue that the janjo fett skin and the tyrion skins are just no more than average. Lets not fall into this touchy feely attutide of not giving real critizism, and tell the way it is. The same thing happened for the default aalya secura skin, it was "average" but no one said that more, but called it "great".

MessiahErebus
06-21-2002, 02:20 AM
nowhere did i say there was not a problem with the sabers...there clearly is. However it's a problem that has been known about since the day they were released. If blood decides to fix them, then you will get re-released ones, and if he doesn't well that is his choice. People bringing this up continually will not in any way speed up the process is all that i am saying. And the skins on both those models are good...so i don't know what exactly you are talking about.

gonk-raider
06-21-2002, 04:12 AM
Yeah.. heresa shocker.. if they had updates maybe it wouldnt be brought up so offten

Blamer
06-21-2002, 05:14 AM
Well, right now it's a pretty sad waste...they're great models and they would have been classics, but hardly anyone uses them anymore because of the obvious errors with the saber animations.

I've heard this sort of "we'll make our stuff as broken as we like so STFU or make your own" business all too many times elsewhere (i.e. XWA Upgrade deliberaty leaving out the missile slots from their TIE fighter models, which singlehandedly screws up an official mission AND way too many custom missions for them to even consider doing it, for the sake of "continuity"). I know what to expect from this, which is nothing.

I'm doubting they'll get fixed, but the creators could and should do the community a huge favor and go the extra 1% to fix this bug.

JangoFett41
06-21-2002, 05:23 AM
who gives a f***? they look fine to me. And I don't give a s*** if the lightsabers don't look right. It works fine for me.

Besides, Jango Fett kicks ass. nuff said.

striderx2048
06-21-2002, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by JangoFett41
who gives a f***? they look fine to me. And I don't give a s*** if the lightsabers don't look right. It works fine for me.

Besides, Jango Fett kicks ass. nuff said.

that all you got to say?

and its
Don't **** with the Jedi Master's Son

JangoFett41
06-21-2002, 09:20 AM
striderx, all I gotta say is check the link. then you'll know whre I'm comin from.:D

gonk-raider
06-21-2002, 09:22 AM
he didnt even get the qoute right

^Invader
06-21-2002, 04:17 PM
Ummm why does Boba Fett and Jango need lightsabers? Aren't they like uhhh Bounty Hunters? And hasn't people ever told you if you complain and whine you don't get nothing =]


Now children please leave Absath and Bloodriot alone they have enough to work on

remark 666
06-21-2002, 06:03 PM
why not do it yourselfs ?? or ask someone who knows how to. The models are released and fully editable, go ahead, no one is stoping ya ;) (while you're at it, add the guns :)).

striderx2048
06-21-2002, 08:43 PM
it the authors prorogative to fix their model, so unless they want a 3rd party to fix their error, no one is going to do it anytime soon.

D.L.
06-21-2002, 08:47 PM
Actually the quote is

"Don't f*** with a Jedi Master, son"

Darth Torgo
06-21-2002, 09:21 PM
I agree, they're pretty goos models that could have been great had the artists been willing to dedicate more time to their completion. As is, they're simply unfinished. You can get buy with saying Jango & Fett don't use guns, to a certain extent, but it's a bit of a stretch to use it to rationaize one's shortcomings in the modeling department. The Caps are a real problem--and one that just screams half-assed fan-made mod when they're cut in half.

Oh, and as for the wonderfull "If you don't like it, do it yourself" bit. Please. Stephen King writes a disapointing book, does he accuse the reading public with such a line? "What, you didn't like Black House? Well, look, there's paper and pencil out there--go out and write your own if you want better!"

Such an excuse is lame, really ****ing lame. If you create a work of art and sign your name to it, be it a novel or a JK2 model, stand by it and know that it's strengths are yours--as are it's failures.

- DT

sithlord-II
06-22-2002, 12:19 AM
dude... i thought i might take a step into this one. Now i'm not sure about what kind of background some of you have in modeling for jedi knight 2, but honestly, it is not an easy prospect. Bloodriot and i, workign together, had to figure out how to import models. As some of the models out there will show, making caps for these things is not necessarily an easy task, as sometimes you end up with wierd errors even though everything looks correct on your model. The weighting of the bolt_r_hand part to the r_hand_tag bone was not something well known at the time, hell i even released vader with unworking caps, an improperly working saber, and such. I was fortunate to have the time and desire to update it, and i'd like to think it worked out for the best. On top of this, Arco made up a cool skin, for which i am grateful. However, with bloodriot and abs, they had been working on the model for every bit as long as i had vader, as well as honestly had put more effort into the skin than i had ever had. I don't like it when people attempt to discredit their work, because you know, you say having no caps screams half-assed fan-made work. Well, i don't know about half-assed but theyre definitely Fan Made, and Amateur, which also means we are doing this simply for fun. In saying this you also discredit Aayla Secura, the lady Brena model, and various other amateur productions released.
This is not a matter of shortcomings in the modeling department, more of an oversight in the final touches, that i admit i had missed on vader as well. Give them some credit, between spacermonkey, bloodriot and myself, we were the first ones to put models into the game, and it was a learning process. I do understand your point is "why haven't they gone back to fix it" but from my take of it they were simply sick of dealing with jango fett, especially with all the episode II hype at the time. Cut them some slack and relax a bit, you will live longer
:)

sithlord-ii

Darth Torgo
06-22-2002, 01:13 AM
Well, I assue you I'm not one of those who has in the past or will in the future spend all my time hastling Model-builders on these boards--be it "when is this getting fixed?" or the ultra-annoying "I NEED THIS MODEL NOW!"

And I certainly admire the work that has been done by you and others--the Mandy models are, on the outside, quite lovely to behold. But I also don't beleive in unfair praise. The mandy models came out, I made sure to point out their faults along with saying they looked nice. The same thing with Aaula--I gave fair and honest feedback, the same feedback I desire in my won creative ventures. It was a great effort, near-perfect in many regards, but lacking. That said, my comments in this last post about bad caps looking half-assed and fan-made... those were ill-advised and I retract them. I've said before and I'll say now, the models look damn good on the whole.

And I can certainly see where one might wish or need to step away from a project for a week or two, even a month, before coming back to fine-tune it. Certainly, and I have absolutly no problem with that at all. Let them take their time. The "Do it and do it now!" posts that everyone likes to make annoy *me* and I'm sure they must annoy the moderlers.

What I strongly disagree with, and what stirred me to post again on the issue deal with two key points:

* The Idea that an artist doesn't have to improve his work.
* The Idea that an person who is not an artist himself or herself does not quite have the right to criticize or critique a work of art.

Now, I've seen enither idea put forth by you or one of the modelers in question, but I've seen posters express them. The first point is the artist's choice. Certainly, it's "finished" when they say it is--at least their hand in it. But as I've aid before, this doesn't give room for their model to be "compelte" or "perfect."

The second idea is the kind of BS one encounters in eveyr medium of art--I have seriously seen the opinion expressed by pro-wrestlers about their in-ring performances. The idea that one somehow can't judge a product unless they themselves have produced as well. Certainly, one cannot have quite the same appreciation for the work that goes into the creation of a wrestling match, paiting, novel, or JK2 model if they have not done the work themselves, but it in no way prevents them from passing fair judgment on the finished product.

But one again, these are things I've heard not from you or the other modelers in question, but just from the board in general. But let me be fair and say again the at models are largly great with just a few annoying small points.

Good luck with them and future ventures,

- DT

sithlord-II
06-22-2002, 03:36 AM
hi there
glad you're not one of those people who takes this kind of stuff for granted and insist others do all the work for you. i do appreciate good constructive criticism and points like that saying "Not having the fully working caps detracts from the model's overall look and presentation" work alot more than "OH GOD THIS MODEL SUX FIX TEH SABER HE SUCKS LOL"
i do understand the points you make, and honestly to me those things do stand out in my mind as well, missing caps, incorrect tag assignment - that is why i released the vader update, no?
:)
having them as complete as possible including caps, etc, and proper deformation makes the models look as close to the original models done by Raven as possible, and every bit counts towards this.
and to me it is the *DO IT NOW* posts that bother me as well. i haven't received any like that so far, and with vader i did realize the errors, acknowledge them and fix them within several days.
The more posts i see of people saying "DO IT NOW", the less likely they are to do it. If the requests are civil and polite i'd like to think that they will help the situation more, and make the guys more likely to update their mandalorian pack, if they choose to.

sithlord-ii

sithlord-II
06-22-2002, 03:41 AM
and Gonk your post saying
"absath disapeared... claimed that the forum was getting out of control.. kissing his ass too much has given him a swollen ego and is now demanding the star treatment"
if you don't have anything good to say don't say it at all. I am deciding to avoid posting updates to my models now on this forums because most comments prove quite unproductive. I have my own sources for comments and crits now. That is why absath doesn't post much stuff in here anymore.

And BTW i'm not saying that anyone in here was saying DO IT NOW in this forum, but i seem to have taken that feeling from some of the other threads.

CheshireKat
06-22-2002, 04:31 AM
Im pretty sure your all insane!

:p

inbredyokel
06-22-2002, 04:55 AM
I'm totally grateful for every model that has been produced. No matter how awful or great anyone thinks a model is, I know it takes a hell of a lot of work. However, one thing that bothers me is the somewhat conceited attitude I often see on editing forums. I'm not going to name anyone, but when someone posts, saying "Hey, I'm making a double-awsome-mega-secret skin/model/map, but for now I'm only going to show you select PREVIEW screenshots of this magnificent venture. You may now feel free to endlessly hype and praise my project," I can't help but feel annoyed. I've only seen crap like this posted a few times(and not just on lucasforums), but usually the thread breaks down into pointless ass-kissing, and anyone who criticizes in the slightest is shunned, belittled, or given the "make your own if you don't like it" excuse. I can't speak for everyone, but IMHO people like that insult every humble and hardworking artist out there. Just because their work is popular doesn't give them the right to boast and insult as if it is better or more important than anyone else's. I can't help but roll my eyes when those people disappear to "work in seclusion" because there are too many peeps of negativity in the endless flood of praise, and everyone acts like it's some sort of tragedy. Almost everyone works hard at something. Just because what they do is the center of attention doesn't mean I have to act like everything they touch turns to gold.
-end rant-

remark 666
06-22-2002, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by Darth Torgo
Oh, and as for the wonderfull "If you don't like it, do it yourself" bit. Please. Stephen King writes a disapointing book, does he accuse the reading public with such a line? "What, you didn't like Black House? Well, look, there's paper and pencil out there--go out and write your own if you want better!"

that was addressed to whom ?? because I think you're talking to the author but sounds like you're writing about what I said...just want to get it straight :)

and yeah, these forums really surprised me, I thought I found a nice civilized forum but I see so many ****ing noob and dumb questions/comments, please, I visit forums with some kids 13 years of age and they have much more better stuff to say, really shocked me there :eek:

polycount forums are nice, you got tons of professionals with hell of a lot to say about your work :)

the models are great BUT could get heck of a lot better if some more time is put into them, like

*add guns to the holsters
*tweak few things here and there (for looks)
*fix the remaining glitches (like the saber, and I think there was something wrong with the roll)
*maybe make few jet pack shaders for the jump animation
*add more detail to the skins

these are the things "I" think would make the model best of the best (and it is already)

if the original authors can't do it themselves or just don't have the time then they should at least allow other people to work on it and fix it

he's one of the coolest characters and a proper JK2 model would be sweet, I just hate for it to go to waist (and it is, not many people play as him)

I could at least edit the skin to have more detail, I think I can find the time for that but the others I don't know about

there is also another model released on this site, it has the guns and all (but doesn't look as good as this one)

also CTF skins were made, if someone updates this great model then they should include those :)

I donno, just few thoughts I have on my mind right now, I hope someone gets to him, he really is a great model, just those damn few things that bring it down.

BacMeth
06-22-2002, 05:59 AM
remark 666
if you're going on like "add rocket exhast to the backpacks, guns to the holsters" etc.
then you're prolly lookin for the mandalorian mod someone is developping
and about the "do it yourself" quote
i never said that
"why not do it yourselfs ?? or ask someone who knows how to. The models are released and fully editable, go ahead, no one is stoping ya (while you're at it, add the guns )."
it was you

i'm sorry that i brought this up... i didn't know that this has been discussed that much yet and i just wanted to ASK them to do it
i never said "DO IT NOW!" (and i dont say someone said i did :P )

i like the models alot and i think the skins are good...
very close to the originals
the problem for me was just that i'm not able to use them because of this saber story...
it was/is just sad that this model is rarely used because of such a small bug

and i really do understand why they dont post in here anymore...
its always like: you start a thread and post that you just began working on a new project and post some pics...
you get tons of posts like "WHOA LOOKS GREAT!!!!! KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK" and everybody wants you to release it as soon as possible...
then you release it, everybody dls it and comes back and says either "YAY ITS GREAT I LUV YA MAN!" or "argh theres this and that bug .. why did you release it that early?"
you get like 130 posts .. but only 10 of them contain useful stuff

i apologize for my bad english... and i'd say "thats it.. nuf said this thread is useless.. lets all stop posting in here :) "