PDA

View Full Version : I'm writing back and forth to a LucasArts Rep ...


QuietSith
06-21-2002, 09:19 AM
I got a response from Mr. Tom Sarris.

He wanted a better explanation about the MP backstab/assfighting problem and the link I see sent him (see below).

I'm sharing with you guys what I wrote to him and CC'ed to other Raven Devs so that everyone knows what I'm writing to him:

This is a long email but please read the whole thing - very much appreciated:

In regards to the poll - thread (I am QuietSith as well):

http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=62221

(You must register to read it)

There are just a few problems Jedi Knight 2 Outcast Multiplayer.

The very biggest and highest priority issue is the following:

Basically - there is an exploit in the game.

Instead of saber fighting with two people facing each other - a person can run around backwards and instantly kill another player.

Excuse the language it's been named "assfighting".

So if you join a JK 2 game server - and you spectate the top score players - you'll notice they run around backward all the time because the 'backstab' is THE most powerful move in the game.

The exploit is worse if someone kicks a person over and/or force pulls the person - essentially knocking them person down, and turns around in 'heavy stance' and does a 'backstab' - it's an instant kill.

So basically you see a bunch of people doing two things:

1. Running around backwards - known as 'assfighting'.

2. Pulling or kicking people over, turning around (back facing the enemy) and backstabbing them with strong saber stance (known as heavy or red stance).

This is a MAJOR problem in the game and has been discussed endlessly in endless threads at the 'lucasforums' for Jedi Knight 2.

Raven appears to want to fix it (as you have read with the quotes in that thread), but LucasArts doesn't 'seem' to want to support the game anymore or allow Raven to make anymore more patches. That's very sad.

We all really love and trust Raven - I believe I speak for a majority of gamers.

The poll in the thread was to see if people want Raven to have more power to fix the game - hence the name of the poll:

" LucasArts - Let Raven Takeover JK 2 For PC"

So far:

Yes, Raven rocks and they should have the power! = 91.30% (84 votes) - Yes

No, LucasArts is doing just fine controlling it = 8.70% (8 votes) - No

So it looks like a good sample that represents the diehard gaming section of the JK 2 community would like to see Raven have more control and be allowed to fix the game.

I suggest you give JK 2 multiplayer a try sometime and check out exactly what I'm talking about:

Spectate some MP games that have a lot of activity - spectate the top score players, and you will see them using those exact exploits - it really hurts the fun factor in the game.

BTW - Aside from this exploit - JK2 is probably one of the best multiplayer games ever made for PC since Quake 1. =)

I just saw your name on some web sites, and I wanted to write a person who works in the higher areas of LA to let everyone know we wish that LucasArts would give Raven the 'go ahead' to keep working on of the best game that ever existed - that being JK 2 Outcast. =)

I like many others just love this game - it's the best Star Wars game ever made - and one the best, if not the best, online multiplayer experiences ever created. The big site and personal reviews just can't get enough of this game - it's truly a masterpiece in gaming history.

Please forward this to others that you know who may have interest in this as well.

I really appreciate your time in reading my e-mail and giving this all some consideration.

If LucasArts continues to support JK 2 for PC - I can guarantee you that many people like myself (and there are a lot of us) will continue to have faith in L.A.'s game production - and we already know how great Raven is. Please restore the faith - or I should say "force". =)

I personally look forward each night to playing on servers (where the admin kicks 'assfighters') for a few hours and having fun saber fighting.

If LucasArts lets Raven continue to fix the game - you will gain an even bigger following and bigger and better reputation than you did at first release and after the recent patch - I can pretty much guarantee that.

Sincerely,

(My real full name here)

C.C. Raven Dev People

striderx2048
06-21-2002, 09:34 AM
does LA have to pay for patches?

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 09:36 AM
That's a really good question - I wonder how that contract works?

It's probably so secretive we'll never know.

They have to pay for the Xbox and GC version of the game.

Aren't those versions going to use the Q3 engine still?

Aren't they just simply ports?

I wonder who is doing the actual conversions - I take it the Xbox one is probably very simple, since the Xbox is basically a console "PC".

Raven_Xwing
06-21-2002, 11:45 AM
Good letter dude, you got to the point without being rude!
One point I wish you brought up isthe sound/ Freeze issue that caused the game to lockup {me included} I know there are at least 500 responses in the help section of the forum about that.
Again nice job!

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 11:56 AM
Cool, yah I'm just trying to get our foot in the door for fixes and perhaps after that we can put in a list and stuff.

What kind sound card, OS, etc are you running?

Cobalt60
06-21-2002, 11:57 AM
1) Raven screwed up the game in the first place.
they should not be allowed to write another patch.

2) Raven has a product (SoF2) on the shelf right now, as we speak,
which ~competes~ with JK2
(so Raven has a financial incentive, to make JK2 as ~bad~ as it can possibly be)

3) LucasArts Entertainment has competent programmers of their own, on their own staff.
and they know Star Wars better than .. well.. anyone.

4) Raven has already releasd the source code ,
so now even "JohnQ.Public" can write a new patch for this game.





therefore :

5) LucasArts should develop the next patch ~THEMSELVES~ (who needs Raven?)

5b) Raven should never be allowed to mess with this game again.

Lime-Light
06-21-2002, 12:14 PM
Um....I dont see the logic in that. Why in hell would Raven want to make JK suck, just to make SOF2 look better? They both speak for Raven's talent. They get money from both, and they are both in the top ten in unit sales. And name me one good in-house LA title from that last 2 years that hasent sucked sh*t.

What you say makes no sense whatsoever.

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 12:19 PM
I know and this guy is following my threads and completely trolling and making flaming remarks against Raven.

Sigh, I wish an admin would stop him.

This is getting extremely annoying.

:mad:

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 12:21 PM
And I'm not bashing LA or anything.

I'm merely asking in my poll if LA should give Raven more control over the game.

It seems from the interview with Raven dev, if that were the case, we'd be seeing more fixes and patches.

Sigh ...

Cobalt60
06-21-2002, 12:42 PM
Raven disabled 'ghoul2' in their v1.03 patch,
in an attempt to "fix the game"

(what else would you like them to disable for you?)
(maybe you should make them a list)

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 12:43 PM
Raven MADE Ghoul 2 ...

Sheesh...

We need an admin here. Help!

Cobalt60
06-21-2002, 12:45 PM
ya and I PAID for it when I bought JK2.


(you really don't get it , do you?)

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 12:53 PM
Wow, you're so full of disinformation, it's simply staggering.

Run a 1.02 server and type:

g_saberghoul2collision

Wow nothing!

Now run a 1.03 server and type:

g_saberghoul2collision

Wow - you can TURN IT ON OR OFF!

Maybe they ADDED Ghoul 2 as an OPTION?

NOWHERE in the readme does it mention disabling Ghoul 2:

And I quote:

"################################################## ############

Star Wars® Jedi Knight® II: Jedi Outcast(TM) Update ReadMe
Version 1.03
5/06/2002

################################################## ############

Thank you for downloading the Jedi Outcast(TM) Update. This
readme includes instructions on how to install this update as
well as information on what was addressed in this update. If
you are experiencing any issues that are not fixed by this
update, please check the Troubleshooting Guide which is
included on the Jedi Outcast CD. You can access this through
the game's launcher.

The use of this update is pursuant to the Software License
Limited Warranty found in the manual of the game.

This update is compatible with your saved games.

All Multiplayer users must use Jedi Outcast version 1.03.

Instructions for Installing the Jedi Outcast Update
---------------------------------------------------
After downloading the update, double click on JKIIUpdate.exe
to install. The installer will automatically search for the
folder where you originally installed Jedi Outcast and install
all of the updates. If the update does not locate Jedi Outcast
on your system, you may need to reinstall the game from the
original CD and then run the JKIIUpdate.exe

This update for the game has been modified to:
---------------------------------------------
* Provide EAX® 3.0 and OpenAL support. To enable these options,
you will need to enable 3D Sound in the Sound Setup menu.
NOTE: At the time of release of this update, EAX 3.0 is only
supported on the Creative Labs Inc. SoundBlaster® Audigy(TM)
and Extigy(TM) sound cards.

NOTE: This feature is not supported on Aureal® Vortex and
Vortex 2 sound cards. Enabling this feature with a card with
one of these chipsets may cause the game to lock up.

Multiplayer:
-----------
* Include 4 new Multiplayer Duel levels, which support BOTs.
* The new levels are:
duel_bespin, duel_temple, duel_hangar, and duel_training

Single Player:
-------------
* Provide Force Feedback mouse support.
* Provide limited Force Feedback support for joysticks.
NOTE: Force Feedback joystick effect is not fully supported
in this update.

Corrects various gameplay issues, including:
-------------------------------------------
Multiplayer:
-----------
* Corrects an issue where players were unable to cycle to
detonator packs and trip mines on the “explosives” key
unless they also had Thermal Detonators.
* Corrects an issue that prevented launching a multiplayer
game on AMD(TM) dual processor machines
* Corrected an exploit to prevent players from using illegal
models in the game.
* Corrected an exploit that allowed players to have force
powers outside of what the server rules allow.
* Added a keyboard icon that appears over the player's head
when the player is chatting or configuring force powers.
* Backflip now requires that you double tap the jump button.
* Lightsaber usage in multiplayer has been modified to work
similarly to the way it works in single player levels. This
will enable better saber battles up close with your opponent.
* Lightsabers will do less damage at the very start and very
end of a swing. This should prevent kills from just touching
an opponent with the tip of your lightsaber.
* Other players will not see the glow from a player using force
absorb until they are attacked.
* Force Heal and Force Drain have been adjusted to require more
force energy to use them.
* Corrected an issue that prevent lightsaber locking from
occurring in duels even if it was enabled by the server.
* Correct various Duel mode issues, including:
* Reconfiguring force powers will not place your player at
bottom of queue.
* If one player leaves during a match when dueling with more
than 1 kill limit, the next person in line will not enter
the match with the score of the person who left the match
* Changing skins will no longer produce a loss score on HUD
that includes fraglimit

Single Player:
-------------
* Corrected an issue that would cause the third AT-ST on
Artus_Topside to disappear that prevented Jan from landing.
* Corrected an issue that caused enemies not to be alerted by
the body of a comrade in their field of vision.
* Corrected an issue where enemies did not try to avoid
thermal detonators that were thrown at them
* Corrected an issue that would cause the player to be unable
to attack for about thirty seconds if they were force pushed
out of a saberlock

################################################## ############

© 2002 LucasArts Entertainment Company LLC.
© 2002 Lucasfilm Ltd. & TM or ® as indicated.
All rights reserved. Used under authorization.
LucasArts and the LucasArts logo are trademarks
of Lucasfilm Ltd.

################################################## ############"

Do they mention removing Ghoul 2 at all?

Where do you get this 'information'?

Your trolling is beyond belief.

I should be happy though, you are bumping my threads. :p

It seems you just make things up to get attention - but I guess it is working, eh?

StormHammer
06-21-2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Cobalt60
1) Raven screwed up the game in the first place.
they should not be allowed to write another patch.

I disagree. I think they delivered a very good game, which unfortunately contained some bugs, and required a little tweaking. The problem usually arises when a developer listens to too much game feedback, and tries to fix it to suit everyone. Some people were happy with MP as it was. Others weren't...and there will always be people who disagree.

2) Raven has a product (SoF2) on the shelf right now, as we speak,
which ~competes~ with JK2
(so Raven has a financial incentive, to make JK2 as ~bad~ as it can possibly be)

I've answered this in the other thread. It makes no economic sense whatever for Raven to make a bad game, because if it doesn't sell, they don't make money, and it hurts their reputation as a game developer.

3) LucasArts Entertainment has competent programmers of their own, on their own staff.
and they know Star Wars better than .. well.. anyone.

True...but from where I'm sitting they commisioned Raven in the first place because I don't think they had the necessary level of FPS talent available at the time to make a high-quality game. Raven is a high-quality game developer specialised in FPS titles, and based on their work on Heretic II, they were a natural choice for making JKII. That's just IMHO.

5) LucasArts should develop the next patch ~THEMSELVES~ (who needs Raven?)

The problem arises in that Lucasarts has not specialised in that particular game engine. Raven has, and probably know it inside-out by now. It makes sense for Raven, as the developer, to produce any further patches, because they are 100 per cent familiar with the game code.

5b) Raven should never be allowed to mess with this game again.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it. However, simply restating your case in this thread (word for word) accomplishes little. As I said in the other thread, Cobalt60 and QuietSith you should just agree to disagree and leave it at that. Sniping at each other does neither of you any favours.

Chastan
06-21-2002, 03:19 PM
Good work, QuietSith. :)

Are you getting responses from LA? Just curious, you don't need to post them I just want to know if they are listening. In my experience LA has always been a good company, I have faith in them.

Hirogen
06-21-2002, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by QuietSith
The exploit is worse if someone kicks a person over and/or force pulls the person - essentially knocking them person down, and turns around in 'heavy stance' and does a 'backstab' - it's an instant kill.

So basically you see a bunch of people doing two things:

1. Running around backwards - known as 'assfighting'.

2. Pulling or kicking people over, turning around (back facing the enemy) and backstabbing them with strong saber stance (known as heavy or red stance).

You fail to mention blue stance backstab, is a different move to yellow and purple. Im not saying its a bad thing that folk take it upon themselves to essentially represent players when contacting official peeps but leaving out key areas of concern kinda defeats the purpose. Ive mentioned this before in another thread but a player can maintain absorb indefinately. Half fixing a problem is not a solution even if Raven/LA did give a sh1t. Its also true that having all players happy wth every aspect of the game is highly unlikely but if you are trying to fix main probs then in my opinion Absorb needs to be dealt with. Being new to the game probably makes my opinion redundant to most readers but as a fresh perspective - Absorb needs to be fixed.

MrYepp
06-21-2002, 07:19 PM
I know this is for a good cause but....... people who are pushing for a new patch to remove cheap styles/moves are fighting a losing battle. You want to kill as many people in FFA or duels or TFFA, etc, in the least time possible, so moves that can deal good damage or even kill in one shot are going to be used, next thing you know after you remove dangerous backstabs, the medium stance inverted chop's gonna be whored, then come the kicks, then lunges..... its a never ending list, until we finally get to a game where we whack at each other with those "Sock 'em Boppers" things which deal 0.000000000000000000000001 damage because the last move, which died 0.0000001 damage was whored too much.:o

JaledDur
06-21-2002, 08:29 PM
Its not a matter of removing the moves that do massive damage. Its about either making them blockable or at the very least, making them not look stupid. If I'm going to be chopped to ribbons by someone at least don't make my last sight be his big Jedi ass.

Chewie Bakker
06-21-2002, 09:23 PM
Once again, the problem's not the move but the way it's used.

Perhaps restricting the amount that you can turn and still perform a backstab would solve the pull & backstab problem, but not the "assfighting one." Either that or upping Pushes ability to counter pull.

But then again, most people are complaining about the use of this in FFA. What does FFA stand for again?

:gben: The Force will be with you, always.

D.L.
06-21-2002, 09:56 PM
FFA == Free For All

CTF == Capture the Flag

Pear
06-21-2002, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by Cobalt60
Raven disabled 'ghoul2' in their v1.03 patch,
in an attempt to "fix the game"

(what else would you like them to disable for you?)
(maybe you should make them a list)

Ghoul2 is the whole animation and model system. Ghoul2 collision wasn't even IN 1.02 - it was added in 1.03.

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by Hirogen


You fail to mention blue stance backstab, is a different move to yellow and purple. Im not saying its a bad thing that folk take it upon themselves to essentially represent players when contacting official peeps but leaving out key areas of concern kinda defeats the purpose. Ive mentioned this before in another thread but a player can maintain absorb indefinately. Half fixing a problem is not a solution even if Raven/LA did give a sh1t. Its also true that having all players happy wth every aspect of the game is highly unlikely but if you are trying to fix main probs then in my opinion Absorb needs to be dealt with. Being new to the game probably makes my opinion redundant to most readers but as a fresh perspective - Absorb needs to be fixed.

#1 It's a way to get their attention - I'm sure if/when Raven does take more control they'll fix more than just the one thing I mentioned.

#2 You are welcome to do this yourself.

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 11:17 PM
Originally posted by JaledDur
Its not a matter of removing the moves that do massive damage. Its about either making them blockable or at the very least, making them not look stupid. If I'm going to be chopped to ribbons by someone at least don't make my last sight be his big Jedi ass.

Haha exactly.

It's bad enough to have it as an exploit, but the whole running backwards thing is just silly. :p

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 11:18 PM
Originally posted by MrYepp
I know this is for a good cause but....... people who are pushing for a new patch to remove cheap styles/moves are fighting a losing battle. You want to kill as many people in FFA or duels or TFFA, etc, in the least time possible, so moves that can deal good damage or even kill in one shot are going to be used, next thing you know after you remove dangerous backstabs, the medium stance inverted chop's gonna be whored, then come the kicks, then lunges..... its a never ending list, until we finally get to a game where we whack at each other with those "Sock 'em Boppers" things which deal 0.000000000000000000000001 damage because the last move, which died 0.0000001 damage was whored too much.:o

Well, it's just the assfighting that is really silly.

That's like playing a car racing game and finding out that driving backwards is faster than forward so everyone starts going backwards and using rear view mirrors. Just looks dumb, doesn't it?

QuietSith
06-21-2002, 11:20 PM
Originally posted by Chastan
Good work, QuietSith. :)

Are you getting responses from LA? Just curious, you don't need to post them I just want to know if they are listening. In my experience LA has always been a good company, I have faith in them.

Yah the guy I'm writing to just wanted a more clear explanation.

I'm not going to list all the problems people have encountered - just the biggest one - that's the foot in the door method - the other stuff can come when Raven is given permission to work on the game again.

I'll post in this thread if I read anything new - probably not direct quotes, just summaries.

Why
06-22-2002, 12:27 AM
hee there
Good of you to e-mail this dude. Maybe he can stop this *assfigting*.
But I read this guy wants more proof. Why don't you make a small demo and e-mail that too him.
Can I have the e-mail adress to, maybe I can e-mail my demo. Than he has the "more explaination" he wants.


But for the game, it's the community's fault. You guys started this. You e-mailt and posted this is lame that is lame etc. SO now you have your new Jedi *assfighting game* Outcast game.
The only thing that should have been fixed was the *DFA* (that's how you guys call the one hit move, with the heavy stance).
The move should only have been tweak like, it's still a one hit move. Only that when the move doens't connect and you excedently step on the saber it doens't kill ya. The game would then still be fun to play.

MrCrusher
06-22-2002, 01:15 AM
I would hope that Lucas Arts and Raven are in negotiations for an expansion to JK2 as we type this thread.

There was mention of other "secret" projects somewhere or other, that were under development at Raven.

My hope is for an expansion that adds content as well as some fixes.

I personally would like to see an extensive "context sensitive" (how you move determines how well you block) defense/blocking system added to sabre combat. If done correctly this would solve all sabre related issues and add twice the depth to sabering. This sort of system could also add defense modifiers for force resistance, ie: push, pull, lightning, kick resistance when in high defense.

The backstab is only an issue for FFA, in the other game types it is not a factor.

It is good to see feed back from Lucas Arts. :)

crazyplaya73
06-22-2002, 01:19 AM
Its not a matter of removing the moves that do massive damage. Its about either making them blockable or at the very least, making them not look stupid. If I'm going to be chopped to ribbons by someone at least don't make my last sight be his big Jedi ass.

Hehe, when I backstab someone it doesn't look stupid. A few times people have even complimented the way I backstabbed them saying "pretty". Suffice it to say that the people who really know how to backstab effectively don't run around backwards and they always face the target. If an opportunity presents itself they spin around really fast and try a backstab and if they miss they turn and face the opponent really fast.

I don't think some of you people complaining play the game enough. Whenever I see someone running around backwards I'm like cool an easy n00b to kill and I'm able to counter most of the kockdown and backstab moves that people try on me. Conversely when I go against a skilled player they are able to counter most of my backstab attempts. Once I see that they are skilled I switch to heavy and take em out old school style. :D

I bet You guys crying couldn't even hang on the same server with me. You'ld get frustrated when I beat you every way possible, call me a cheater or an assfighter, and leave so that you can send another e-mail to Raven begging for them to change the game again. I don't care how someone beats me. If they beat me I give them credit. I'm the only one to blame if I get beat in this stupid game or in the real world too.

Please don't let Raven touch thsi game. Don't nerf anymore moves!!! Don't water it down so that a duel takes 20 minutes!

QuietSith
06-22-2002, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by Why
hee there
Good of you to e-mail this dude. Maybe he can stop this *assfigting*.
But I read this guy wants more proof. Why don't you make a small demo and e-mail that too him.
Can I have the e-mail adress to, maybe I can e-mail my demo. Than he has the "more explaination" he wants.


But for the game, it's the community's fault. You guys started this. You e-mailt and posted this is lame that is lame etc. SO now you have your new Jedi *assfighting game* Outcast game.
The only thing that should have been fixed was the *DFA* (that's how you guys call the one hit move, with the heavy stance).
The move should only have been tweak like, it's still a one hit move. Only that when the move doens't connect and you excedently step on the saber it doens't kill ya. The game would then still be fun to play.

tsarris@lucasarts.com

defalc
06-22-2002, 12:17 PM
Well, I've been playing using the complied 1.03a code from the SDK, and backstabs, whilst still quite damaging, are no longer 1 hit kills. lus, with ghoul2 on, they can be parried. Still makes em lethal in the right situations (eg: you're about to snipe someone before another guy tries to sabre your ass), but means spammers are no longer able to run around like lamers.

Chewie Bakker
06-22-2002, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by D.L.
FFA == Free For All

CTF == Capture the Flag


Yes, I know what FFA means. It was a rhetorical question. FFA means Free For ALL and I was under the impression that it meant no holds barred.


<sigh> I'm just getting tired of all the whining.

:ben: The Jedi were the guardians of peace and justice in the Old Republic until they complained about all of the Force powers and had them all nerfed, then a squad of stormtroopers yelling "Hey! You there!" was all it took to take over the galaxy.

Darth Ball
06-22-2002, 05:24 PM
and then those stormies were attacked by a monkey on crack:monkey4: and killed

ha ha ha ha


stop whining

whah!!!
if they dont get rid of the slash i am never gonna play again:ball:

*Darth Vega*
06-22-2002, 09:36 PM
Having trouble with somebody running backwards? Throw saber at him, he cant even see you, you should have no problem picking him off.
I think the game is perfect now and hope there are no more patches.

Darth Kaan
06-23-2002, 12:03 AM
Lucas Arts and Raven were smart enough to realize no matter what kind of patch they made, people would complain and go on whineathons.

Releasing developement tools and source code = stop whining and make the game into whatever you want.

Keith[jolt]
06-23-2002, 12:52 AM
Everyone complains about patches to every game, but the majority of people have stated that something needs to be done. Yes there are unofficial patches out there, but without an official patch they'll take to long to become popular and the community will suffer as a result.

Orangina_Rouge
06-23-2002, 01:43 AM
Originally posted by MrCrusher
I would hope that Lucas Arts and Raven are in negotiations for an expansion to JK2 as we type this thread.

There was mention of other "secret" projects somewhere or other, that were under development at Raven.

My hope is for an expansion that adds content as well as some fixes.



I don t think people will trust Lucasarts or Raven enough to buy an expansion

I personnally paid for this game so i expect to have fun with it, expansion or not .........that s not the case actually with 1.03 ( and 1.02 servers are almost all vanished )

Actually i feel robbed and will hardly buy another game from Lucas considering they don t care about supporting their games ( the second thing happening to me with a lucas product ......the first one being Decipher s CCG )
The only exception being SWG cause Verant can patch this game as they see fit ( and cause in my mind it s the Heir of the unfinished UO 2 ) , but for other things Lucas Licensing lost a loyal customer with their repeated errors

QuietSith
06-25-2002, 10:35 AM
Update!

Just received an e-mail.

He's forwarding the e-mail to "Brett Tosti" the LA game producer of JK2!

Hey, at least he's doing something. :)

Emon
06-25-2002, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Cobalt60
1) Raven screwed up the game in the first place.
they should not be allowed to write another patch.

2) Raven has a product (SoF2) on the shelf right now, as we speak,
which ~competes~ with JK2
(so Raven has a financial incentive, to make JK2 as ~bad~ as it can possibly be)

3) LucasArts Entertainment has competent programmers of their own, on their own staff.
and they know Star Wars better than .. well.. anyone.

4) Raven has already releasd the source code ,
so now even "JohnQ.Public" can write a new patch for this game.





therefore :

5) LucasArts should develop the next patch ~THEMSELVES~ (who needs Raven?)

5b) Raven should never be allowed to mess with this game again.

You are a complete fool. If LEC developed the game, it would be absolute crap. Ever play Obi-Wan? Yeah... And besides, LEC can't develop the next patch, contract crap.

The 1.03 patch fixed many aspects of the game. The only thing it screwed up was the saber combat. If you take a look at the unreleased 1.04 code, it is nearly flawless. It was also made by Raven. Unfortunatly they can't release it due to the fact that LEC sucks.

Also, LucasArts doesn't really have competant programmers for FPS games. What's the last good FPS that LEC came out with? Mysteries of the Sith, back in 1998. All the programmers and developers are GONE that worked on that project.

And as for Raven purposly making the game bad so SoF II will be better...what the **** is going on in your mind? The games aren't in competition! One is sci-fi Star Wars, the other is first person tactical combat! If Raven really wanted to make as much money as they could, they would make BOTH games as BEST as possible, then both would sell very well and they would make more money. DUH.

QuietSith
06-25-2002, 01:27 PM
Patience...

ryudom
06-25-2002, 09:27 PM
everybody should just download the U104 patch mod for now

*Darth Vega*
06-25-2002, 10:54 PM
Everybody should just suck it up and play the official version or move on to another game.

QuietSith
06-25-2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by *Darth Vega*
Everybody should just suck it up and play the official version or move on to another game.

I guess you better tell that to the Quake 3, UT, and HL crowd - all they do is play mods. :rolleyes:

Old_Ben
06-25-2002, 11:04 PM
I do play the official Version. But why be satisfied with a game that needs tweaking when there is a chance of LA leting Raven come out with a new patch.

*Darth Vega*
06-25-2002, 11:17 PM
Speaking of other games didnt you see what the last couple patches for Counterstrike did?:p

Patton
06-26-2002, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by Cobalt60
1) Raven screwed up the game in the first place.
they should not be allowed to write another patch.

2) Raven has a product (SoF2) on the shelf right now, as we speak,
which ~competes~ with JK2
(so Raven has a financial incentive, to make JK2 as ~bad~ as it can possibly be)

3) LucasArts Entertainment has competent programmers of their own, on their own staff.
and they know Star Wars better than .. well.. anyone.

4) Raven has already releasd the source code ,
so now even "JohnQ.Public" can write a new patch for this game.





therefore :

5) LucasArts should develop the next patch ~THEMSELVES~ (who needs Raven?)

5b) Raven should never be allowed to mess with this game again.

You're a ****ing idiot. Seriously. I usually don't flame people on boards I don't frequent, but you deserve this, and anything else someone says. Raven purposely makes the game bad, so that SOF2 sales increase? Let me tell you something, you putz. When people buy a game in a store, they don't give two ****s about the patches that are out. They look at the back of a game, and they say "oh, this looks cool." And then they plop their fat sacks of cash money on the counter, go home, and play. If they have an interest in the multiplayer game, they'll try to play, figure out there's a patch, and then play. They'll find the backstab problems too.

Next in line, is the fact that Raven doesn't have to make patches. They could tell us all to eat their collective asses, and not support the game at all. If you don't like what Raven did/does to this game, then don't play it. And while you're at it, please die, and/or get cancer. Thanks.

Ready Wan
06-26-2002, 07:16 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith
Update!

Just received an e-mail.

He's forwarding the e-mail to "Brett Tosti" the LA game producer of JK2!

Hey, at least he's doing something. :)


In this thread you'll find the email to Mr. Tosti.
http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=615292#post615292


a number of people emailed him weeks ago, dunno if they are still mailing or not.

tosti@lucasarts.com

Darth Knight
06-26-2002, 08:30 AM
I just want everyone to know that this will happen no matter what. Ok they can take backstab away or something b there will just beother things. Like in CS(CounterStrike!) cheating got really bad, that can happen in JO too. There will always be something wrong with the game. I say just play it!

Pedantic
06-26-2002, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Patton
And while you're at it, please die, and/or get cancer. Thanks.

Wow, that was really needed. :rolleyes:

Nhoj
06-26-2002, 09:39 AM
The problem some (including me) have with backstab being used all the time is this game is "more" than just an FPS. Some of us have been Star Wars fans since 77 when the first movie came out. This, in a way, is more like role playing. There are certain attributes to a Jedi and Dark Jedi/Sith, etc that are being ignored by those whose only goal is to run backwards for reaching the frag limit. If back stab were used once in a while as a classy finish to a defeated opponent, then great. But to use it exclusively cheapens the game and takes it out of the context of Star Wars.