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ThirdGenRX7
06-23-2002, 01:46 AM
then everything will be nerfed so badly that lightsabers will basically be about as useful as running around trying to beat each other to death w/ spoons doing about half a point of damage a hit. Backstab isn't an exploit it's just that none of the other attacks do enough damage to make people want to use them.

SaberPro
06-23-2002, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by ThirdGenRX7
Backstab isn't an exploit it's just that none of the other attacks do enough damage to make people want to use them.

Well, people somewhat abuses it by turning around and around when backstab appears. That's just unrealistic. Same goes to backsweep.

In the original 1.02 patch, when you do DFA, the little TIP of the lightsaber can kill you on 1 hit..that's why Raven nerfed it...

I hope Raven can do something about the backstab/backsweep in the next patch...something like you can't turn while doing it, so it's just one big complete circle, and probably make it blockable too

Darth Kaan
06-23-2002, 02:02 AM
Since the developement tools and the source code have been released, I doubt new official "Patch" will ever be made.

CapNColostomy
06-23-2002, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by SaberPro


Well, people somewhat abuses it by turning around and around when backstab appears. That's just unrealistic. Same goes to backsweep.

In the original 1.02 patch, when you do DFA, the little TIP of the lightsaber can kill you on 1 hit..that's why Raven nerfed it...

I hope Raven can do something about the backstab/backsweep in the next patch...something like you can't turn while doing it, so it's just one big complete circle, and probably make it blockable too

"Unrealistic"?!?! You're kidding right? It's a Star Wars game man! The whole premise of the game is "unrealistic".

Citanul
06-23-2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by CapNColostomy


"Unrealistic"?!?! You're kidding right? It's a Star Wars game man! The whole premise of the game is "unrealistic".

I have to disagree on that one. I know Star Wars is unrealistic but there's even a certain level of... um... what's the word? I guess reality. There's a certain level of reality even with Star Wars.

If you throw a saber and bring it back with the force, that seems like it could happen in real life if the force really existed. But spinning at 230715908178934791 miles per hour after doing a backstab isn't. The person doing it isn't even moving their feet!

WarteX
06-23-2002, 03:34 AM
I agree with Citanul!

And I dont c y some ppl dont like the 1.03 patch.

I know that assfighting is lame, but the fights in 1.02 look like n00b padawans fighting and not like those cool duels in the movies and except from the backstab move the fast stance is alot more useful in 1.03 then it is in 1.02.

ThirdGenRX7
06-23-2002, 03:36 AM
in sp when you do the backstab you are locked in place... i dunno if that's how it was in mp 1.02 though?

Kurgan
06-23-2002, 06:08 AM
... then there will be NO GAME LEFT.

All we'll have is a movie. Think about it.

I say to these folks: watch a movie. I'll play a game thanks!
; )

jarek
06-23-2002, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by ThirdGenRX7
then everything will be nerfed so badly that lightsabers will basically be about as useful as running around trying to beat each other to death w/ spoons doing about half a point of damage a hit. Backstab isn't an exploit it's just that none of the other attacks do enough damage to make people want to use them.

This was said like 2 months ago.

Cal-Gon Gin
06-23-2002, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
Since the developement tools and the source code have been released, I doubt new official "Patch" will ever be made.

That didn't stop id from patching Quake3. However, a few times (when they changed protocols drastically) it broke mod codes, which required modders to release new versions.

Saber_Trails
06-23-2002, 08:42 AM
this is an old topic but ill be happy to comment on the neverending argument:

1. I think backstab is awesome i love it. i use it to kill about 70% of the time. i know it will be nerfed forcing me to stay with 1.03
All the special moves are cool. if all the people complaining get their way it will be like JK1 where everyone just ran back and forth pressing the strong attack button and thats how duels will commense.

2. Maybe they should change how the moves are executed like make a missed special leave you open to attack but not nerf it.
that is how games are ruined. Im keeping a copy of 1.03 on my computer just in case :P

QuietSith
06-23-2002, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by Saber_Trails
[B]this is an old topic but ill be happy to comment on the neverending argument:

1. I think backstab is awesome i love it. i use it to kill about 70% of the time.


Thanks, I'll keep your name in mind for instant-kick if you join our server. :p

Homosexual Ewok
06-23-2002, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith


Thanks, I'll keep your name in mind for instant-kick if you join our server. :p
:newbie:

-[MotU]-Lyger|=-
06-23-2002, 09:46 AM
Well i dont seem to mind the complainers, i just kill em and tell them "Quit whining like the littel b!tch you are" then if they keep whining ill just keep aiming to kill them

SquallLeonhart
06-23-2002, 02:51 PM
WHINERS SUCK, THEY MAKE THE GAME NOT FUN, END OF STORY.

SaberPro
06-23-2002, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by CapNColostomy


"Unrealistic"?!?! You're kidding right? It's a Star Wars game man! The whole premise of the game is "unrealistic".

Unrealistic against the standard physics law. Yes I'm serious :)

Can you twirl at 10,000 RPM?

Neumonic
06-23-2002, 03:03 PM
Ok- the pull-backstab move is stupid. STUPID,STUPID,STUPID! The only way that I've found to counter it is to do it myself. It has ruined this game for me. Ill go play Urban Terror until Raven fixes this. Thank you and goodnight.

Lunatic Jedi
06-23-2002, 05:52 PM
I pity people who are lame enough to register on a forum to post a single whine. :p

Fossil25
06-23-2002, 06:11 PM
yesh the thing i hate is the assfighting...
and to some extent the part where people run to you, spin 180 degrees, let you see their back, and kill you.
even in a star wars game, that's pretty lame.
but i like the BS when used in the right situation, like when someguy runs up from behind and tries to whack you. then u finish him in one move. that's provided you didn't plot anything.

considering its power, i would actually love to see the yellow stance combo (i dunno whether it's called DFA or heavy stance one is) be improved. not until the tip kills, but this move is less used, and it no easier than a BS, yet does not kill beacuse the saber just sticks into the guy, the longer, the more damage. so if he reacts and runs out before 0 hp, he lives. otherwise i tested it does 100.

ahh but i'm not complaining...i'm just saying..

The only thing i want changed is something to prevent backward walking freaks...
and yes more complains (on other stuff) will lead to a screwed up game



ah ah ah

Saber_Trails
06-28-2002, 10:32 AM
hey everyone does it and you know ive changed my style of fighting now. i dont use backstab as often i usually keep my distance and wait for them to make a mistake instead while using absorb at all times for protection

CapNColostomy
06-28-2002, 12:34 PM
Originally posted by SaberPro


Unrealistic against the standard physics law. Yes I'm serious :)

Can you twirl at 10,000 RPM?

The laws of physics are completly ignored about every ten seconds in every Star Wars movie there is.

Anytime I see someone discussing the laws of physics and Star Wars in the same sentence, I know I'm not listening to a serious person. ;)

power_ed
06-28-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Citanul


But spinning at 230715908178934791 miles per hour after doing a backstab isn't.

Rofl!! :lol:

thats allotta Mph!!

seriously though.. i agree completely..

Mercen4ry
06-28-2002, 03:01 PM
Woo, yet another "nerf backstab" thread. Here I go again:

I make it a point to hate backstabbers in general, but at the moment I'm going to attempt to be neutral in this matter, and take it from both perspectives. Hopefully then I can put a bit of a healing salve on the wound to JK2 that is 1.03.

Now then, let's start with the anti-backstabber frame of mind. This mindset stems from 2 little words - "nerf backstab," and carries on until said individual gets flamed, yelled at, or labeled as :newbie: , because said individuals always complain about how often this move leads to their own demise or the deaths of others (I know I've cited this a few times in my posts). Bad approach. Instead, the problem they're trying to get across here four-fold:

1) It's not cinematic. Where in Episode 1, AotC, or the original Trilogy did you see anyone ANYONE running around backwards slashing at air in attempts to perform a "stab" on their opponent? Certainly, you can debate this fact until the cows come home, but as weak as the fact is, it's just not what our favorite silver-screen jedi would do.

2) But putting the movies aside, let's move on to fact 2: It looks stupid. Where in any FPS, sword-fighting simulator, or any game with a melee weapon have you seen someone face the other way, spam attack, and walk backwards until they miraculously score a hit? Could I try that in Q3, T2, MOHAA, JK1, Unreal, or any other conceivable game title? Nope, I'd be dead in three seconds flat. Or, throwing ALL references aside, just look at it. Look at me everyone, I'm a real jedi! I run backwards slashing air until I hit something and somehow get a kill. It's stupid, and everyone, even the folks that use it as a staple, know this. (Excuse the above taunt. I'm getting a little too engrossed in the role :p )

3) It's not skillful. Once again, we could just sit on this board arguing about it like children for the next decade, but just ask yourself: Was pulling that guy and chopping off his head with that move really that hard? Come on, you know the answer - it wasn't, and don't you DARE try to lie to me. :)

4) When it all comes down to it, it's just one big spam fest. Do you honestly think Ravensoft or Lucas Arts really intended for all of their hard work on the guns, the other special moves, the saber mechanics (as screwed up as they may be in many peoples' opinions, including my own), the duels, and the force powers for ALL OF IT to take a back-seat to one combo? It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the answer - they didn't.

Wow that took a while, but I promised I would take both angles into account here, and as such, here are the arguments I have seen FOR the move. Forgive me backstabbers, but I'm also going to attack these arguments, because many of them are not particularly valid IMO.

1) It's a legit move. Lucas Arts intended it to be this powerful for a reason - to make sabering as powerful as it should be.

Sorry, but that's false. If LA had wanted sabering to be THAT powerful, they would have upped the power of every special move, and instead, come 1.03 they nerfed the DFA. That's some fairly valid proof that their intentions were the opposite, however successful you personally believe it has been. The fact is obvious - the residual power from the backstab was due to an err in their judgement or at the hands of Raven. When they upped the blocked-attack ratio, it's fairly obvious that their aim was to please the "but saber fighting should last as long as the films!" folks (I'll leave the term "whiner" for any of you to fill in, if you so please), but the result backfired, and instead of us having long, cinematic duels we either have prolonged, special move contests or an abrupt end caused by a quick backstab/sweep/DFA. I really hate to put words in their mouths or to pretend that these facts are true, but just look at the trend of *nerfs* in 1.03. The fact is fairly obvious. :)

2) And I quote:
hey everyone does it and you know ive changed my style of fighting now.
Would you throw yourself off a cliff onto jagged rocks below because all the "cool" kids were doing it, or is this a form of the old "If you can't beat them, join them" mindset? No offense SaberTrails, but this is a horrible defense. Instead, try developing a little skill in the matter (I'm not implying that you do not have any, I'm saying this for the sake of my argument). I've found that, even with 3+ backstabbers playing on my favorite gun server, I can still win without a single backstab. However, this doesn't address the Saber-Only folks, and all I can say to them is: Beat the backstabber at his own game when dueling him, or show him that there are other legit moves that can get the job done just as well. Don't backstab innocent people, unless they're Padawans - it's liable to get you flamed, kicked, or worse, and it's just not worth it. Which leads up to our next point.

3) It's a legit move. Deal with it.

I already addressed the former of these two statements, but the latter I must agree with in some respects - If you intend to play 1.03, yes, you will have to deal with it. However, you don't have to just "deal with it." There are plenty of mods out there aimed at fixing the game; try a few of these. I've found JK2 ++ to be a good one, but due to the emptiness of QS's server, I don't think enough people agree with me. Just try it - just because you're playing on a modded server doesn't mean you have no skill (I'll address HE later in this post), but instead it allows you to build skills in a different form of the game, and possibly return "fun" to your gaming, which is the whole aim of a VIDEO GAME in the first place. Or if you're entirely sick of any modded version of base, try Hydroball. It's a good break from the monotony of JK2 pubbing. Remember - no one is forcing you to play JK2 base; take action instead of just complaining here. (once again, you may fill in "whine" if you want. For the sake of my neutrality, I'm not going to say it)

But anyway, let me address one person in particular, for myself. Ewok, read the above, and see what you can make of it, then read this. Certainly, you are entitled to bitch, moan, and relentlessly call people who don't wish to "just deal with it" newbies, but it doesn't make you right. Instead, you have become a whiner. What makes the difference between a whiner and a real person? I'll tell you. While whiners just sit on their hands and complain about a problem, real people offer solutions and at least try to cope with that which is ailing them. First and foremost, people who move on to mods instead of putting up with the flames of spammers are not whiners, nor are they newbies - they instead have found their method of coping with the problem, as they are entitled to do. Does it make me that much less of a JK2 player because, even though I can achieve up to 60 kills in a 20 minute game of base 1.03 without spam, I prefer playing on a mod at this point? Similarly, your favorite flame target, QuietSith, is not a whiner or newbie either, as he is doing his damnedest to give the JK2 community his solution to the 1.03 problem, just as the folks at WD (JK2 ++) are. I know I'm going to get flamed for this, but all I'm doing is offering you advice - stop complaining that people should just live with 1.03 and like it. People are totally within their right to move on to what they believe to be better things, and trying to stop that is a suicidal tactic. :cool:

In any event, I hope that lengthy post helps to address most of the sides of this problem. I'm positive I missed a few, but the point is this: Yes, you should deal with 1.03, but that doesn't necessarily mean you should PLAY 1.03. Take action, for ranting all over this board has about a slim or nill chance of reaching the ears of Raven or Lucas Arts. And most of all, do yourself a favor - learn the whole game, not just one move, as it cripples your knowledge of the game and limits your abilities. That way, should the unspeakable happen (and Raven / Lucas Arts release a new patch to nerf backstab), should you be caught fighting an assfighter yourself, or should you be on a server with attempts of winning, you will be fully equipped for the circumstances and will, for the most part, avoid flames and actually be proud of yourself when you emerge victorious. :cool:

Merc out. :fett:

Mercen4ry
06-28-2002, 03:17 PM
Oh, and one more thing - the spinning at x miles per hour is not legitimate - it's the cause of either a script (I know the command myself, but I'm not going to share it to avoid having more script kiddies than there already are :p ) or a stupid configuration, and it's not cinematic either. Certainly, jedi don't have to conform to the normal rules of physics in that sense, but have you ever seen or heard of a power called "force spin?" Please. :rolleyes:

The truth of "spinning" is it IS the exploit that is tacked on to an already bad move, making it infinitely more deadly while making it illegitimate (sp?). Don't try to con us with this crap - it shouldn't be in the game, and you know it. :D

Merc out, again. :fett:

QuietSith
06-28-2002, 03:40 PM
Wow, thanks Merc!

:)

And on that note, if you guys want to stay away from backstab, assfighting, exploit whores, be sure to find the nearest JK 2 ++ server near you.

You can get on my server anytime - there's even a mailing list now.

You can find any of JK 2 ++ via ASE with a filter:

All Seeing Eye (ASE) - http://www.udpsoft.com/eye/

When you run ASE (All Seeing Eye) do the following:

Filter - New

Name JK 2 ++

(In the filter put the following): <--- don't put this in:

1 if servertype != "JK2" remove
2 if gamename ~== "JK2++" keep
3 remove

Click on Normal Filter.

Click OK.

To use the filter:

Right click on the "JK 2 ++" Filter on the very bottom under "My Filters", choose refresh, and you'll quickly find JK 2 ++ servers.

Char0n
06-28-2002, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by ThirdGenRX7
then everything will be nerfed so badly that lightsabers will basically be about as useful as running around trying to beat each other to death w/ spoons doing about half a point of damage a hit.

I believe this already happened, it was called the 1.03 patch ;-)

[i]Backstab isn't an exploit it's just that none of the other attacks do enough damage to make people want to use them. [/B]

Very true, but people are always taking this the wrong way it seems...

Why is the reply to something being over powered always "it needs to be nerfed/removed?" The reason assfighting is so prevailant now and wasn't before isn't because it was upped in 1.03, it's because regular saber hits were reduced to said "spoon" power where it really is less powerful than using a baseball-bat (closer to a nerf crotchbat) while it actually got upped slightly in light stance. I don't think that things need to be removed or nerfed, but if you make regular attacks powerful enough so that backslashes aren't the only sure way to get a HIT, let alone a kill, I bet you'll see more real fighting than spin-ass love.

Don't get me wrong, I like the parries and blocks 1.03 gave us... it's just that on ultra-high power (where you come at someone who's idle from behind and somehow they manage to block some of the swing and they only take minimal damage) mixed with nerfed saber attacks really makes the game annoying and almost boring. I don't care if in the movies saber battles last for half an hour or whatnot, this is an ACTION game, a FPS at heart with a cool saber weapon that adds to the mix greatly, and it's annoying fighting a guy for 2 to 5 minutes and neither of you manage to land a solid hit (unless by luck or the other did something stupid) due to constant block-parries. If you want to watch a long saber battle, watch one of the movies. If you want real fast-paced action, get Q3A or UT or such. I just want fast paced saber action, not split-second kills, but the kind where you have to take risks to get an attack in, and when you do take those risks if you have enough skill the attack will work. 1 to 2 minute duels are perfect in my opinion, and the ghoul/tracesaber settings seem a decent sized step in the right direction. Now it's up to lucasarts to let raven make a new patch, or the community to agree to a standard (hah! we have 2 official ones we can't seem to agree to, and a new 1.03a/1.04/JK2++ patch popping up every week, so there's no standard to learn/you can be sure to always find in your server browser) and make a patch by that standard.

end rant

Mercen4ry
06-28-2002, 05:03 PM
Top. :D

Marvelous*
06-28-2002, 09:50 PM
Im not bothered anymore, cos i think that assfighters, and people who just
rely on backstab and dfa are easiest to kill, because you know what they
are going to do next,

the people who do best in the game, and are most difficult to beat, are the
people who mix both, good sabering skills, and the occasional use of dfa, backstab/slash ..
As they are unpredictable, and deadly :D

I think the point of these moves are to make lots of different styles of play,
because thats just what they are really, different styles of play.
So how can you say that one is wrong? it comes down to whatever gets the job done.


So lets stop moaning and get on with the fragging :o

CapNColostomy
06-29-2002, 02:37 AM
Originally posted by Mercen4ry
Oh, and one more thing - the spinning at x miles per hour is not legitimate - it's the cause of either a script (I know the command myself, but I'm not going to share it to avoid having more script kiddies than there already are :p ) or a stupid configuration, and it's not cinematic either. Certainly, jedi don't have to conform to the normal rules of physics in that sense, but have you ever seen or heard of a power called "force spin?" Please. :rolleyes:

The truth of "spinning" is it IS the exploit that is tacked on to an already bad move, making it infinitely more deadly while making it illegitimate (sp?). Don't try to con us with this crap - it shouldn't be in the game, and you know it. :D

Merc out, again. :fett:

Hey genius, had you bothered to read my post before you wrote that novel of a post, you'd see the word "MOVIES" mentioned. You also may have noticed a" ;) " in there, which I thought was an almost universal sign of jest. I wasn't flirting with him by putting a ";) " in my post for crying out loud.

*Darth Vega*
06-29-2002, 03:47 AM
You don't like backstab? Cry me a ****in river, my heart bleeds for you. I'll make sure to laugh at you when I backstab you. It's a legit move, just cause a few idiots whore it all the time doesnt mean it cant be used by the rest of us when the opportunity arises.
If you say you're gonna kick/ban me from your server for using it thats fine, but I say I'm gonna use backstab whenever I please whether you like it or not. I really could care less if I get banned from whiner #80423987's p2 dsl server.
Cya round;)

Ricta53mm
06-29-2002, 04:28 AM
I'm kinda new to JK2, so I've never known anything but 1.03. However, I had my first encounter with backstab a week ago, an I can already say I don't like it. I was dueling someone, when all of a sudden they turned around. I thought to myself, "What the hell is he doing? Is he letting me kill him?". Of course, I died a split second later. So, I agree with Mercen4ry: it doesn't make much sense to run around backwards, or turn around in the middle of a duel.

I also agree with whoever said that normal attacks don't do enough damage. For example, just yesterday, I was on the Jedi Academy server dueling with Phr00t. He was teaching me how to be aggressive, attacking constantly and never letting your opponent rest, so we were both in blue stance. We were probably fighting heavily for close to 5 minutes, (very)slowly wearing down each other's health, when I did a saber throw and instantly killed him. Which, of course, didn't make any sense.

So, in conclusion, the lightsaber's implementation has some obvious flaws. I'll be looking into that JK2++ just in case I ever decide to host a server....

FatalStrike
06-29-2002, 04:32 AM
I hear all these dang complaints about making the game more realistic. By this I assume they mean more like the movies. I agree I say great they SHOULD be more like the movies. Then I read them complain about these special moves that are "too strong." Too Strong?

I have a question for the realistic and anti-strength people.

In what movie have you seen a jedi get hit with a lightsaber and not lose a limb or die? Have you seen weak lightsabers in the movies? How realistic is it that a saber can leave burn marks on the wall but barely hurt you at all?

You people are full of it! You want weak cue tip fights because you can't last more then 5 sec against strong hits because while you may know how to swing your saber you can't seem to get out of the dang way of one. You killed a legit move like the DFA, which had a problem, but could have been fixed by making it harmless once it hit the ground (as opposed to the land mine affect).

Now I see whining about backstab. boohoo for you! Pull backstab is used in 1.02 as well but since it is easier to avoid then DFA's are it slipped under whiners radar.

I play 1.02 and 1.03.

I never get hit with a DFA in 1.02 because instead of whining i learned to actually use the strafe buttons and move out of the way. As far as the step on it and die problem, I watch where it is and don't step on it. Simple isn't it. But whiners aren't good enough to do even that.

In 1.03 I rarely get pulled and backstabed because of such wonderful force powers as absorb, drain, and push. Ever heard of them?! There are also non force ways like rolling into the pull or kicking when pulled. Also having full strength push makes it harder to be pulled down.

if you people spent half the time learning to counter these moves as you do whining about them you would be GREAT players.

Mercen4ry
06-29-2002, 06:32 AM
Hey genius, had you bothered to read my post before you wrote that novel of a post, you'd see the word "MOVIES" mentioned. You also may have noticed a" " in there, which I thought was an almost universal sign of jest. I wasn't flirting with him by putting a " " in my post for crying out loud.

Well then, let's have a look:

The laws of physics are completly ignored about every ten seconds in every Star Wars movie there is.

Anytime I see someone discussing the laws of physics and Star Wars in the same sentence, I know I'm not listening to a serious person. ;)

It looks more like you're mocking SaberPro with that ;) than labeling your post as kidding, but tell me this: Are you trying to make a point for or against the little "spinning" exploit in 1.03? If against, I apologize for the bluntness of my post, but if for, my post stands. :cool:

And I read your post about the movies, which is why I stated that the movies didn't precisely have to follow the laws of physics to the letter, but I disagree with this point:

The laws of physics are completly ignored about every ten seconds in every Star Wars movie there is.

Wrong. For the most part (and a good portion of all the films), the actors follow one of the basic laws of physics - gravity. Likewise, there is another law known as momentum, as well as acceleration. Granted, the jedi tend to "bend" a few of these laws via a flip 30 feet into the air, force jump, or what have you - but they have to make it look at least a little believable. Is it really that believable to see a jedi suddenly turn into a twirling tornado of death at the drop of a hat, using a script in JK2? :)

That said, try to actually read my "novel-long" post for yourself. It would have been much smaller if I could have addressed the issue of backstabbers in its entirety with fewer words, but since there are so many views in the argument, I tried to get to most of them in one, lengthy post. :D

Merc out. :fett:

Saber_Trails
06-29-2002, 06:47 AM
id like to defend myself by saying this: i dont just use backstab anymore now i use whatever it takes to defeat my opponent and i dont spam anything. ive changed because i noticed that everyone spams the move so the best way for me to kill isnt by doing it back the way to kill well thats my secret but everyone has their way :)

Mercen4ry
06-29-2002, 07:08 AM
Woo, go SaberTrails. Now, if only other backstabbers would follow his example... :)

Merc out. :fett:

Marvelous*
06-29-2002, 07:25 AM
i still believe that everybody has their own tactic,
but backstabbers, no matter how much i try and defend you,
you suck, all of you.. sorry..
i just use good sabering skills to win my matches, not how quickly i can activate a script.
So thats where i stand, go saber_trail and go merc..

Kurgan
07-01-2002, 05:32 AM
Can you twirl at 10,000 RPM?

No, I can't. Neither can you I bet. No?

Well, you're not a Jedi, are you? ; )

Agen
07-01-2002, 05:44 AM
beat each other to death w/ spoons doing about half a point of damage a hit
Ahem, The spoon is the msot powerful weapon and device ever to surface the universe, do not use the name as a mockery tool!

If there was to be a patch, they should sjut half the damage of backsatb to 40-50 it would stop them from spamming it.
Now they have released tools and the source code,b i tihnk they are giving us a hint to make it oursleves, which isn't a good idea.