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cj7816
06-23-2002, 10:46 AM
I found the JK2mp sdk. Is there one out yet for sp? I've seen people make mods for the sp game. How are they doing this?
I'm planning to do a total conversion and I may want the option of moding the sp version. (I may just diced to mod Quake3 instead since all of the tools have been available for a long time).

Emon
06-23-2002, 01:39 PM
You can't actually make mods for SP that change code, because there is no SDK for SP and there never will be. You can do things like new sabers, models, NPCs, etc.

Harukaze
06-23-2002, 03:10 PM
Ahh but can you do new NPCs? That's something I've yet to see anyone pull off.

LordEradicator
06-24-2002, 03:11 AM
There are NO mods for SP. Just people replacing **** and saying oooh look a new mod. Personally I believe that a mod isn't a mod without a change to the code.

cj7816
06-24-2002, 09:48 AM
So all people are doing in SP is replacing resource files?

PuppyStuff
06-27-2002, 10:10 PM
Emon, how do you know that there will never be a release of sp source code?
:confused:

I think that if we get enough people in the community to ask for it, Raven may release it.

I've sent some emails to Kenn Hoekstra at Raven Software about this. It sounds as if their main concern is about a mod team adding in features they planned to put in a possible expansion pack.


Releasing the source code for a game limits what you can do with the tech in the future. Supposed we wanted to do an expansion pack but the mod community beat us to the punch with everything new we planned to do?



--Kenn


If you want, send some emails asking about sp source release to one of Raven's contact/comment/feedback type email addresses. They reply to a lot of email from fans and mod developers.



I think there is a chance that they would release the source code after a sp expansion, or after 2 to 5 years. By then the game would be outdated enough where a expansion is unlikely.

But this would only happen if enough of us ask for the code...

Emon
06-28-2002, 01:47 AM
Well it's certantly POSSIBLE, but will it ever happen? Highly unlikely. It sure would be nice, though. I'd like to make the E-11's primary fire as accurate as the Bryar (as it should be) and change secondary fire to a scope (as it should be). Also replace the BS weapons like the flechette and the repeater with either real SW weapons from the Essential Weapons book or with old school DF weapons (which are very close to many real SW weapons).

Emon
06-28-2002, 01:52 AM
By the way, that part about mod community beating them to the punch is B.S. No mod team is going to make a full expansion! Besides LEC has the right (I think) to stop them if they wanted to do the same thing.

JK had full source released at the same time it came out (with exception of engine code, of course)! Most everything was in ASCII, making coding possible right off the bat, level editors popped up (only one, JED, was good) real soon. Converters for MATs (which were ASCII as well I think), 3DOs, everything.

No one ever made an unnoffical expansion for JK! Infact, the closest thing to a TC was an MP only TC by SavageX, called Space Soldiers 3, and that was never even out of the bega stage. The most that came of it were a few really kickass SP levels, that's it.

I don't think Raven would loose money by releasing the source code, in fact they would more than likely make more money off of it.

jipe
06-28-2002, 05:35 AM
I've already explained it in many other threads, but in case anyone happened to miss them, here's why: the SP code is in the .exe, along with the engine code. They can't release the engine code - it belongs to id Software, not Raven. The only reason they released the MP code was because it's in DLLs, the same multiplayer-mod system that Carmack used for quake 3.

It's not that they don't want us to have it - they just can't give it to us..

fourwood
06-28-2002, 07:35 AM
Well why didn't they make the SP in .dlls?! Silly Raven.

Joben
06-28-2002, 09:00 AM
The lack of a singleplayer SDK may kill my interest in this game pretty soon.
They should at least have more complete config files.
In the weapons one you cant even edit damage or projectile speed for god's sake! (Thats all i want to do right now actualy, the projectile speeds drive me
nuts, they arnt consitent with either the movies or real physics.)

IMHO there is too much multiplayer crap out there already, i want to work with singleplayer stuff.

As fourwood said (and it was a mayjor understatement) "Silly Raven". :(
(or whoever was respocible for this stupidity.)

UGG
06-28-2002, 10:30 AM
Jipe, your confusing the engine code with the game code. The MP game code was compiled to make the QVMs in assets0.pak, while the SP game code was compiled to make jk2gamex86.dll.

I'm not sure what Kenn means by "limited". He probably means copyright problems, like if some modder makes a cool feature they were going to use. :confused:

Certainly, Raven staff are very generous with their help, and it's much appreciated guys! :)

I think the reason why LEC avoid helping modders is because their afraid of embarrassing themselves. Read this to see why.
ScummVM Thread (http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=837277&forum_id=7223)

ROFL! :D

jipe
06-29-2002, 05:33 AM
We don't release the single player source because it's tied to the exe -
unlike the vms which are complete separate.

-James


You're right, UGG, I *did* use the wrong terminology - I've been saying it too much and forgot what I've previously said..

Emon
06-29-2002, 10:22 AM
There can still be some amazing "mods" and levels done without full source for single player. Sure, it'll never get you really great stuff like it could for JK, but luckily we have the weapons.dat and others that let us change quite a few of the features.

I was able to replace the Bryar with the BlasTech DH-17. New model, and the thing even functions slightly different. I changed the normally extremely weak primary fire to the more powerful one of the E-11, and the secondary fire remains the same, but it's all red now instead of yellow.

the nomad
06-29-2002, 11:29 AM
Raven can't release the sp source code, as someone already said it's compiled in with the engine code. Which they can't distribute until ID makes the Q3 engine open source.

Now from what I remember with Q2 they didn't release the source code until Q3 came out, so they aren't likely to release the Q3 source code before Doom 3 comes out.

TheSnerd
06-29-2002, 01:17 PM
You're wrong, sorry. The actual game-code of single player is located in jk2gamex86.dll, like UGG said ;) So they could theoretically just release the code of that dll to allow us to make sp mods ;) :D

Joben
06-30-2002, 12:10 AM
After having a look in the .dll im inclined to agree with TheSnerd.

But speculation is kinda pointless...couldnt we just ask Raven?

Emon
06-30-2002, 01:13 AM
Raven won't release the SP SDK because LEC won't let them. LEC has a HUGE track record of being bastards about releasing game code ever since MotS, when all the good FPS developers left. We're damn lucky to have any editing tools at all, let alone a full MP SDK.

His Divine Shad
07-03-2002, 02:55 AM
Well nomatter how lucky we are supposed to be, I am now truly depressed :(

ZeR0SyN
07-03-2002, 06:49 AM
Maybe we'll get an SP expansion.

DireTan
07-03-2002, 09:43 AM
If you will look in the CFG files I belive you will find Star trek Elite Force stuff in there as I did.. and I dont think that they will be able to release SP source until Star Trek elite force has cause thats were the SP aspect came from I belive..
I dont think Q3 had Single Player code.. If it did.. Whoa!

Joben
07-03-2002, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by DireTan
If you will look in the CFG files I belive you will find Star trek Elite Force stuff in there as I did.. and I dont think that they will be able to release SP source until Star Trek elite force has cause thats were the SP aspect came from I belive..
I dont think Q3 had Single Player code.. If it did.. Whoa!

LOL yeh the guts of the game are chock full of EF stuff. There is some
discusion of that subject in the 'Emon' thread, check it out if you havent yet.

I ment sourcecode stuff, not elite force stuff in the Emon thread.

Commodus
07-07-2002, 10:31 PM
Originally posted by the nomad
Now from what I remember with Q2 they didn't release the source code until Q3 came out, so they aren't likely to release the Q3 source code before Doom 3 comes out.

Errr, you mean the engine source code or the regular source code? There is a difference.

V3NUUUM
07-08-2002, 03:36 AM
It is true about the source code, it IS in the dll. The engine however, is inside the exe, so a release of the logic is entirely possible. That is all that we need, just the logic, not the engine.

I don't think that a release would be anything to do with Lucasarts directly, because the logic isn't of real importance to them. I'm sure George Lucas would love to see great mods for "his" game. I know one of my friends is gettin a little bored of waiting for a release and is probably going to try a reverse engineer of the dll. This is, of course, extremely illegal, so i won't mention any names!

I was thinking the other day, of a way to emulate the SP code by using the MP code supplied by Raven. I'm sure TheSnerd is doing something to this affect by re-coding for a co-op mod. Unfortunately, unless you know good A.I coding, as the MP and SP bots are TOTALLY different, you wouldn't have a lot of luck.

Well, anyone feel up to that task??
If not, then we have a loooooong wait for a release?

Joben
07-08-2002, 09:53 AM
Heres the thing: I cant think of a good reason NOT to release the
SP SDK. The only thing that comes even close would be if they are
planing an expansion pack. I think if there isnt any news soon we need
to start emailing LEC and/or Raven about it. If LEC is saying no but actualy
have no reason to care they just might change their mind if enough ppl ask.
*shrugs* ya never know we might get lucky.

BTW Can anyone think of a reason not to release the SDK?
(other than "LEC is run by pricks" I'm shure we have all heard
some varient of that one :rolleyes: :p )

I meen geez whats the worst case senario? Nothing happens. At all.
Best case? JO does a halflife and is still on store shelves for years to come.
(A little unlikely i admit but when have you heard of mods causing a
game to be less popular?)

Emon
07-08-2002, 12:46 PM
Well, LEC IS run by pricks. They are nothing but, "Quick make game sell fast so we get more money." They don't think about the long run and the profits that would exponentially increase with full patch support, full SDK except for the engine, etc. I mean, just look at what happened to HL..