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View Full Version : JK2radient or GTKradient


Derisor
06-26-2002, 07:32 AM
Ive heard that GTKradient is easier to use and more mature. So which one do you all use. Is it even possible to use GTKradient ?

Xcom
06-26-2002, 07:46 AM
If you are a beginner, it won't make much difference to you (if we speak about functionality). However, at more advanced level, GTK is a blessing.

ps: (as you may have guessed, I use GTK)

Grets Sirob
06-26-2002, 07:46 AM
I personally use GTK, but that's only because jkr stopped working after I reloaded. I don't think either of them is "better" they're just slightly different.
I'd try one, and if it works for you, go with that, if not, try the other. There is no "better" one.




:trooper: Hey, you there!

Derisor
06-26-2002, 07:53 AM
I am a beginner. But then perhaps I should start out on the best one.

What are the differences? Is JK2radient put out by Lucasarts or something ? Who makes them ?

Ah Boon
06-26-2002, 11:49 AM
jk2Radient is from Ravensoft. i uses jk2R cause most of RD's tuts uses jk2R so its easier for me to check out this tuts and learns stuffs. u can find his tuts somewhere... look for RichDiesel's thread.

RichDiesal
06-26-2002, 02:25 PM
:D

Emon
06-26-2002, 02:33 PM
JK2Radiant is a worthless, unstable, horribly crappy peice of crap.

GTKRadiant is what you want, you can get it from www.qeradiant.com.

RichDiesal
06-26-2002, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Emon
JK2Radiant is a worthless, unstable, horribly crappy peice of crap.

Only if you don't have a gentle touch and a lack of patience. :p

It is the editor with more finesse. ;)

Jango_Fett91
06-26-2002, 02:47 PM
I would rather use JK2 Radient Than GTK because all my textures are missing on GTK:(

UniKorn
06-26-2002, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by RichDiesal

Only if you don't have a gentle touch and a lack of patience. :p
It is the editor with more finesse. ;)

*chuckle* GTKRadiant all the way. JK2Radiant is for people who look for trouble :P

Ah Boon
06-26-2002, 11:16 PM
ehehe... ahaha..... im still with jk2radient :)

D.L.
06-26-2002, 11:45 PM
I alternate between both. Depends on which Icon I find faster :)

No major difference I think :)

Redvan
06-27-2002, 12:05 AM
just whatever you do, never use JK2Rad then try to edit a map made on that on GTK, runs slow, looks bad, at least on my comp.

D.L.
06-27-2002, 12:16 AM
That's weird.

They are both .map files so there should be no difference.

Photoshop and Paint Shop Por still open jpg files even if one was used to edit it.

aazell
06-27-2002, 12:48 AM
I've tried both and found that JK2 Rad was far easier to set up and get started with. Configuring GTK is too longwinded for a newb whose just trying to learn the ropes. I've never had either crash on me at all.

I'd recommend JK2 Rad to a newb.

aaz

DireTan
06-27-2002, 01:20 AM
JK2 Radiant ROXXOR YOUR BOXXORS
no seriously there are more Tutorials and I got used to it faster..

Emon
06-27-2002, 01:40 AM
More tutorials for JK2Radiant?? YOU ARE FOOLS! The tutorials will work for GTKRadiant, EFRadiant, MoHRadiant, Q3Radiant, anything as long as it is not game specific like ICARUS 2 for JO, and in the case of GTK vs JK2 for JO, it doesn't matter.

You can even use old QERADIANT tutorials made for QUAKE II on any of the newer Q3 based Radiants. A lot is the same.

RichDeisal, what are you smoking?? JK2Rad doesn't even let you clone brushes, because you get a memory error. Vertex dragging is ****ed out of the wazoo, and it crashes like crazy.

Anakin
06-27-2002, 03:06 AM
Ok the only problem with GTKRadient is that I have no FX files in it, so I cant create Rain, snow or anyother effects.

I dont know If I have to edit the qe4 file in the scripts folder, but I just doesnt want to work.

Anyhelp would be great, as switching from JKradient to GTKRadient is reallllyyyyyy annoying all the time!

Redvan
06-27-2002, 03:46 AM
there is probably more for GTK i would think, hasn't it been out longer? But as for the slowness, i have no idea, mabe its just my comp, which i doubt.

Ah Boon
06-27-2002, 11:04 AM
there shouldnt be any slowness

Manquesa
06-27-2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Emon
Vertex dragging is ****ed out of the wazoo, and it crashes like crazy.

Actually I use both editors and prefer the vertex editing in JK2R over GTKR.

Anyway, like I said, I use both editors:

JK2R: Most of my map building takes places here, including texturing, lighting, entities, compiling and so on.
Shows curves properly in editor.

GTKR: I use this for extra editiing control for certain situations
Accurately selects the brush you want, not some other brush you didn't even click on.
multiple face texturing, this feature is a godsend.
separate patch mesh surface inspector, not sure if it's better than JK2R's or not but I use it


Oh and also:
EFRadiant: to purge evil poly's (only because i'm too lazy to copy the plugin file to JK2R)

Xcom
06-27-2002, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Manquesa
Shows curves properly in editor.

What do you mean by "properly"? Actually, I assume that you mean that GTKR doesn't display them properly. Elaborate. :D

Manquesa
06-27-2002, 11:49 AM
mainly i'm refering to cylinders, it draws them on the grid more like multi-faced brushes than cylinders. They show up fine in the 3d window but I just find it very annoying to look at the grid and see these rigid sometimes diamond shaped cylinders(if they're small) when they should be round. Jk2R shows them the way they actually are on the grid, which is round.

Emon
06-27-2002, 01:34 PM
Vertex editing in JK2R over GTKR? I take it you like your verticies to deform in completely random form in the way that you didn't even want it to...

RichDiesal
06-27-2002, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Emon
RichDeisal, what are you smoking?? JK2Rad doesn't even let you clone brushes, because you get a memory error. Vertex dragging is ****ed out of the wazoo, and it crashes like crazy.

I've never experienced any sort of random crash in Jk2Radiant... maybe you should learn to use the software before you start fooling around with it?

Also, I clone brushes all the time. I use this neat tool called the space bar. You should try it. If your computer crashes when you use it, well.. I'm sorry your computer sucks so much. :p

And vertex editing works just fine... Never had a problem with it either. And there are an awful lot of vertex-edited curves on duel_kamino, so if there was something wrong with it, I'd think I would know...

Just sayin.

:)

Oh, and I do use GTK occasionally (I'm not ignorant of its features) but only for the plugins. All brush/curve/etc building I do in JK2R.

aazell
06-27-2002, 09:01 PM
Rich has spoken!

Let all ye lesser fools shutteth uppeth!

I was just going to mention a bug I found in JTK that isn't in GTK.

In the texture window if you scroll to the bottom using the scroll block on the scroll bar it sometimes wont stop scrolling and gets stuck. At that time I had no option but to dump out of JTK and restart it.

That doesn't happen in GTK. So there's somthing going for it!

Eh, Hey?

Don't ya think?

Ill just shut up then............

Derisor
06-27-2002, 09:26 PM
Actually One thing I love about RichDiesel is his avatar. Darth Homer. Good stuff. You should get someone to model him for a map.

The Camino platform is very pretty but if you add the rest of camino it would be even better.

One thing I have probles with using JK2radient is that when I run the game, I have to exit the editor cause it crashes or laggs the game. Does GTKradient have the same issue?

Ah Boon
06-27-2002, 09:39 PM
multi face texturing?? do u mean tat we dont have to <shift>+<ctrl>+click anymore on each face to texture it? :confused:

UniKorn
06-27-2002, 09:51 PM
shift+alt+click all the faces you want to have that texture, choose the texture, and boom, all faces are textured. That is if you are using gtk :D

Altimira
06-27-2002, 10:36 PM
I am a proud user of JKRadiant. I just have a couple problems with it...When i get a semi-complicated map, and im in the 2D a veiw, everything goes black except for the names of the entities(lights, doors, etc.). I hope there is a way to fix that cause im having to split my current map into Sections:mad:. The other problem is that when arbitrary rotating brushes, at a 45 degree angle, it mutates the brush into god know what ( i spent an hour yesterday trying to fix this. which i finaly gave up and CSG subtracted it while it was already rotated)... its a pain to make arch ways like this.
Somthing i hate about curves in general, is that when editing the vertexes, if you take the outside ones they and move them around and then cap it, the cap isn't a square (it puts it where the vertexes are. which i get, but its a pain). I think it they should be square, cause my current WIP uses alot of curves that i want to cap them a square after i edit the vertexes ( it would simplify my life so much). So i just making them out of regular brushes. Which is all fine and good cause my map still looks amazing and it doesnt really add much compile time:).

BTW is there any way to fix any of these prblems?

-Altimira :fett:

Ah Boon
06-27-2002, 10:38 PM
but tat way i would texture the whole brush instead of the face

Altimira
06-28-2002, 12:21 AM
thats what caulk is for right? just put it on the faces you dont see in the game
:)

RichDiesal
06-28-2002, 01:55 AM
Free rotation of brushes in JK2R or GTKR will cause that problem... that's why you don't ever use free rotation unless you plan to never edit a surface again. :p

And if you need to make archways on 45 degree angles, just drag to vertices to make them on 45 degree angles... don't rotate them. :)

And as for caps, just make the square endcap before you edit the vertices. Makes life much easier. :p

Xcom
06-28-2002, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by Manquesa
mainly i'm refering to cylinders, it draws them on the grid more like multi-faced brushes than cylinders. They show up fine in the 3d window but I just find it very annoying to look at the grid and see these rigid sometimes diamond shaped cylinders(if they're small) when they should be round. Jk2R shows them the way they actually are on the grid, which is round.

Oh, that. Never bothered me. I guess it's matter of taste.

Originally posted by RichDiesal
And vertex editing works just fine... Never had a problem with it either. And there are an awful lot of vertex-edited curves on duel_kamino, so if there was something wrong with it, I'd think I would know...

I bet he is referring to vertex editing of normal brushes. GTKR will split planes in two halfs while keeping the shape together. JK2R will deform everything and you'll end up remaking the brush (cuz undo doesn't work either).

RichDiesal
06-28-2002, 04:09 AM
Ahhh, that makes more sense. I never use the Vertex Tool with brushes, so I wouldn't know. :p

Much easier just to clip it up. :D

VIO
06-28-2002, 04:16 AM
as you can guess it really more of a matter of opinion, im sure other will tell me different...
i use jkiiradiant i just like it better its more single and raw no useless dodads and gtk has alot of thing that look nice but have no real use..i do admit though the undo button is nice, that really the only reason i ever use it, well that and for editing vertexs of brushes

Xcom
06-28-2002, 04:16 AM
Yeah, I agree. I also use clipper tool whereever possible but in some cases it is not possible. ;)

Altimira
06-28-2002, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by RichDiesal
Free rotation of brushes in JK2R or GTKR will cause that problem... that's why you don't ever use free rotation unless you plan to never edit a surface again. :p

And if you need to make archways on 45 degree angles, just drag to vertices to make them on 45 degree angles... don't rotate them. :)

And as for caps, just make the square endcap before you edit the vertices. Makes life much easier. :p

Thanks, ill try that. the answer seems so simple now:mad:

Ah Boon
06-28-2002, 11:52 AM
i just luv to use gtk radiant!
it makes my texturing job MUCH easier. i always build my brushed from cault so that i only have to texture the faces needed to be seen. just shift+crtl+alt+click then keep selecting all the faces u wanna texture then, TADA!!! done!

Gameface
07-04-2002, 02:33 AM
I'm using GTKRadiant, and want to know how to set up the program so it can find all my JK2 textures and stuff. All of them are loaded fine with JK2Radiant. Should I have GTK point at a certain dir?

Locke101
07-05-2002, 11:53 AM
personally for me, GTK Radiant has alot more options and tools to help make more detailed and better maps :) But i also think that GTK Radiant is for more advancded users, or people who have tried to edit Quake 3 based games before and wish to really commit to making maps for JO. the radiant taht ravensoft put out is good, but i find it unstable on my comp, and i always have compile problems with it. Plus, it doesn't come with all those cool plugins that GTK RADIANT COMES WITH!!!! hehe well its just MY OPINION

:duel:

Wes Marrakesh
07-07-2002, 01:07 AM
Originally posted by Emon
More tutorials for JK2Radiant?? YOU ARE FOOLS! The tutorials will work for GTKRadiant, EFRadiant, MoHRadiant, Q3Radiant, anything as long as it is not game specific like ICARUS 2 for JO, and in the case of GTK vs JK2 for JO, it doesn't matter.

You can even use old QERADIANT tutorials made for QUAKE II on any of the newer Q3 based Radiants. A lot is the same.

RichDeisal, what are you smoking?? JK2Rad doesn't even let you clone brushes, because you get a memory error. Vertex dragging is ****ed out of the wazoo, and it crashes like crazy.
WTF you talking about? What have YOU been smoking?
Just clone the selected brsuh with space, it nevers screws up. I think your comp is punishing you for your ue of GTK.
I use JK2R partly because it is for JO

JediPunk
07-08-2002, 05:41 AM
I use GTK Radiant and I like it alot.
It's pretty easy too...I just started making maps and I'm getting the hang of it.

ShroomDuck
07-19-2002, 09:14 AM
I think I know what clone crash he is talking about. In JKRad, when you add a func to a brush, and then remove it, and then clone that brush... it crashes. Every time.

I just now installed gtk, after being frustrated with some minor probs with jk2rad.

Karshaddii
07-19-2002, 10:13 AM
I hate both = )

GTK and JKRAD compared.



GTK-----Stable

JKRAD--Unstable

GTK-----Uses a ####load of mem

JKRAD--Uses less mem

GTK-----Easy to manipulate Patch Meshes

JKRAD--Impossible to do the same

GTK-----Great, GREAT 3d Navigation

JKRAD--Horrid, HORRID 3d Nav

GTK-----Long compile times, can mess up

JKRAD--Faster comp times, does a better job

GTK-----Decent 2d view

JKRAD--Not bad, but not as easy to see as GTK

GTK-----Shaders will not work well or compile

JKRAD--Shaders work and compile well

GTK-----Slightly more(VERY USEFUL) options

JKRAD--Misses out on GTK’s options

GTK-----Pain to install, quits working sometimes

JKRAD--Easy install--can install incorrectly

GTK-----Undos an unlimited amount of X

JKRAD--Can only undo once. (cntrl-z)

GTK-----Full NPC list only viewable at 1280x768

JKRAD--NPC list scrolls

GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly

JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast

GTK-----JKII only features don’t work well

JKRAD--JKII only features work better

GTK-----Most entities can be viewed in 3d

JKRAD--Most entities appear as a solid box
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Emon
07-19-2002, 05:16 PM
"GTK-----Stable JKRAD--Unstable

True.

"GTK-----Uses a ####load of mem JKRAD--Uses less mem"

GTK uses 20MB of system RAM, JK2Rad uses 15. BIIIG difference...

"GTK-----Easy to manipulate Patch Meshes JKRAD--Impossible to do the same"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Great, GREAT 3d Navigation JKRAD--Horrid, HORRID 3d Nav"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Long compile times, can mess up JKRAD--Faster comp times, does a better job"

Load of crap. GTKRad and JK2Rad both use SOF2MAP to compile and use the same command lines. Compiling is identicle.

"GTK-----Decent 2d view JKRAD--Not bad, but not as easy to see as GTK"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Shaders will not work well or compile JKRAD--Shaders work and compile well"

Oook. Your GTK is setup wrong or something (what's so hard about it, anyways?).

"GTK-----Slightly more(VERY USEFUL) options JKRAD--Misses out on GTK’s options"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Pain to install, quits working sometimes JKRAD--Easy install--can install incorrectly"

Pain to install? How so? I'm sorry, but anyone having trouble installing GTK must be a complete and total MORON. Perhaps you are just too stupid to select "Jedi Knight II" and the auto-load function when you first install? I know plenty of very experianced editors with NO problems installing.

"GTK-----Undos an unlimited amount of X JKRAD--Can only undo once. (cntrl-z)"

Agreed.

"GTK-----Full NPC list only viewable at 1280x768 JKRAD--NPC list scrolls"

Yeah, but you can um, bring up the entity window in GTK and just select another NPC from the list...

"GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast"

Um, never seen that.

"GTK-----JKII only features don’t work well JKRAD--JKII only features work better"

What JO only features?

RichDiesal
07-20-2002, 02:20 AM
>>GTK-----Stable
>>JKRAD--Unstable
Apparently only if your computer sucks. ;) I've never had a problem with stability in either.

>>GTK-----Uses a ####load of mem
>>JKRAD--Uses less mem
Not a large enough difference to matter either way.

>>GTK-----Easy to manipulate Patch Meshes
>>JKRAD--Impossible to do the same
Vertex editing too difficult for you? They both seem just as difficult as the other, there is really no difference besides "You need to learn to do things two different ways." If you got used to GTK's method and then are simply too lazy or stupid to learn JK2's method, then that's really just sad more than anything else. ;)

>>GTK-----Great, GREAT 3d Navigation
>>JKRAD--Horrid, HORRID 3d Nav
Again, they're just different. What's so horrible and difficult about right-clicking and holding the mouse button down? Is this some new amazing skill you need to learn?

>>GTK-----Long compile times, can mess up
>>JKRAD--Faster comp times, does a better job
They're the same in matters of pure speed. Does not matter.

>>GTK-----Decent 2d view
>>JKRAD--Not bad, but not as easy to see as GTK
Different colors? Oh no, I can't see black lines on white as well as white lines on black! GOD, THE PAIN!

>>GTK-----Shaders will not work well or compile
>>JKRAD--Shaders work and compile well
They should be the same, unless you set up GTK badly.

>>GTK-----Slightly more(VERY USEFUL) options
>>JKRAD--Misses out on GTK’s options
Quite true. In fact, that's really the only true advantage to GTKR over JK2R.

>>GTK-----Pain to install, quits working sometimes
>>JKRAD--Easy install--can install incorrectly
Everything can install incorrectly if you don't know what the hell you're doing. That's an ID-10T error in either case.

>>GTK-----Undos an unlimited amount of X
>>JKRAD--Can only undo once. (cntrl-z)
Never needed to undo, so couldn't tell ya. ;)

>>GTK-----Full NPC list only viewable at 1280x768
>>JKRAD--NPC list scrolls
True, but anyone that makes maps should be at high resolutions anyway. ;)

>>GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly
>>JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast
I believe that's because GTK loads texturesets in realtime, when you scroll to them, instead of when you load the texture set. Not sure on that though.

>>GTK-----JKII only features don’t work well
>>JKRAD--JKII only features work better
Eh, there are a few things that JK2R handles much better, but the list really isn't that long.

>>GTK-----Most entities can be viewed in 3d
>>JKRAD--Most entities appear as a solid box
What entities do you need to see other than models? Does the solid box somehow intimidate and frighten you? :p Everything that appears as a solid box appears as a solid box because you don't NEED to see it rendered, and it just wastes video memory (something GTK likes to do) if it is rendered.


I can't believe I wasted 3 minutes to reply to this. No wait, I can.

Xzzy
07-20-2002, 02:40 AM
>>GTK-----Textures load very, very slowly
>>JKRAD--Once loaded, scrolls very, very fast
>>I believe that's because GTK loads texturesets in
>>realtime, when you scroll to them, instead of when
>> you load the texture set. Not sure on that though.

GTK scales itself based on system memory.

When I first started editing, the machine I was using had 256 megs of ram, and GTK would stop and load textures almost every time I tried to scroll.

Once I had 512 or more this stopped entirely and I could view a full texture set without any pauses whatsoever.

In other words, GTK won't load as much if it would totally use up all your memory. Which is a good thing, except on lower end machines it will be painful to use.

At any rate, I use GTK because it seems to be better supported.. it's in active development. It also runs on linux.. which means I can do my brushwork easily at work if I have some free time, then when I get home do a build and see if I like the results. Using gtk saves me from having to use two different editors.

Karshaddii
07-20-2002, 04:02 AM
Umm excuse me?

GTK 20 megs of ram?
JKRAD 15 megs of ram?

Maybe running a blank map, boy--but when you working on a full and detailed map and making very complicated patch meshes--GTK can use up to 700 megs of memory!!!

On an average (working on a detailed map with textures viewed as bilinear) it uses 126 megs.

JKRAD uses FAR less mem for some reason. Maybe cause it uses less plugins--I dunno.

Now as for the compiling--

What I said was NOT a load of crap--

Yes--both use SOFTMAP to compile--so theoretically they would both compile the same way right? WRONG!!!

Its not the compiler—it’s the level editor—for some reason GTK just does not like my water brushes—and it will compile them as a solid void. It will do other funky stuff too for JKII-only effects and waypoints. But when I load the map I made in GTK into JKRAD and compile it in JKRAD—it works fine.

So there = P

Karshaddii
07-20-2002, 04:10 AM
Oh BTW--How come RichDeisal and Emon you always seem to pick on me!!


Also in response:

Gtk is a pain to install. No, it's not difficult to click the next button--but sometimes it just WILL not install. It will say ERROR! at the end of install. Or it will start up and bi*** about some file missing. It doesn't like being installed.

About the 2d view thing.

Its not A BIG DEAL OK? I prefer GTK's 2d view better-- I like dotted lines--makes manipulating brushes that are 0.25 on the grid scale alot easier. For noobs like you Rich Diesal = ), the plain red box in JKRAD is just as good as the one in GTK.

Oh yeah, and my PIV 2.0 with 512 megs of SDRAM and an All In Wonder Radeon 8500 with 128 megs of DDR mem is really sucky.

I think I'll go upgrade to an Athalon 200 and a Voodo 3


I hope you guys know that when I called the god of editing that is Rich Diesal a noob--I was kidding.

Karshaddii
07-20-2002, 04:17 AM
Another thing--No, I can't believe that you wasted three minutes of your life to reply to the problems that I PERSONNALLY AND NO ONE ELSE HAS with these two programs--and most of it I was being sarcastic--and change it and respond aggressively like I was doing an actual, technical, comparison of the two programs.

I mean seriously--what is with you guys?? I never said THESE ARE THE DIFFERENCES BETWEEN THESE TWO PROGRAMS.

I said--hinting that I was being sarcastic "I hate them bothe = ) "

Good SithSpit!

RichDiesal
07-20-2002, 09:54 AM
Geez man, go get some ice cream, cool down a bit. :p

Karshaddii
07-20-2002, 02:09 PM
Hey, thats MY line!!!

or is that the point....





= )

Manquesa
07-20-2002, 11:21 PM
alright children, calm down, don't need a flame war here.

Both editors work good and can coexist together peacefully.
If you don't like the way one works and don't want to use it, then don't use it, use the other one. It's all just apples and oranges, different people, different tastes.

Oh, and as for the gtkradiant installation difficulty. I too have had problems installing it. Not because I don't know how, but the damn thing doesn't seem to want to install on my computer. Maybe there are certain OS's that it doesn't like. I got WinMe, came with the computer, never had any need to upgrade. But it kept getting an installation error, and the only way I could find past it was to just keep trying and eventually the installation worked. GTK stopped working on me for a while so I had to install it twice, both times created the same problems.

Emon
07-21-2002, 02:33 AM
If you're having problems with GTK, it's because you didn't install it right, or your system is ****ed up. Myself and other experianced, INTELLIGANT editors have had *NO* problems with GTK, EVER. So if there's something wrong with it, it's you or your PC, not the editor.

RichDiesal
07-21-2002, 09:47 AM
So I suppose since I and many other intelligent, experienced editors have used JK2 Radiant without any trouble, that says the same of you? ;)