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View Full Version : Master Mace Windu Vs. Darth Tyranus


Darth Joka'ar
06-29-2002, 01:20 PM
Well let ,see your comment about this Duel.

Master Mace Windu
Originally from EU
Mace was one of the best lightsaber fighters of the Jedi order. Only the most skilled of the Jedi could master the Form VII discipline of combat, for its aggressive nature treaded dangerously upon dark side practices.


Darth Tyranus
Originally posted by Shadow Angel
In response to the above post, according to the Star Wars Episode II Visual Dictionary, Darth Tyranus (I hate calling him Dooku, it sounds like a kiddy word for crap) was a master of the lightsaber and taught many students lightsaber skills before he left the Order. He was skilled in the long-lost saber combat style of Form II, which was designed specifically for dueling and parrying another lightsaber, as opposed to the common Form VII, which was mostly for blocking blaster bolts. This also explains the bent saber handle.

Still the contest is not only about Lightsaber skills, as well as the Force.

Anyway,anybody do know anything about other Lightsaber Form?

:lsduel:

Shadow Angel
06-29-2002, 02:49 PM
Although I think Mace is cool, I'm inclined to believe that in a straight duel, Tyranus would win. Just like you quoted me earlier, Tyranus is a master of Form II, and supposedly was the unofficial "lightsaber expert" of the Jedi Order. And other than the Episode II Visual Dictionary, I know nothing about Forms and such. They show diagrams of all sorts of stances and saber tactics in that book, though. I think those forms are based on the choreography teachings that Nick Gillard (the guy who teaches the actors to fence/swordfight) teaches. However, you can find out MUCH more about lightsabers and saber combat from a technical viewpoint here.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

The only problem with that site is that it hasn't been updated in a long time, and covers nothing about AOTC.

BlackDove
06-29-2002, 03:23 PM
Mace would DEFINATLY win...there is no real question about it...only that Shadow Angel is kind of wrong in the description Maces skill. Obi-Wan's teaching is blaster-bolts-repelling. Maces skill goes to the point where he is WANTING a kill...

Shadow Angel
06-29-2002, 03:50 PM
........ I'm wrong? Ah, well. I was just going by the book. That is, unless you have info from another source that contradicts that. You're right that Mace's skill IS way above Obi-Wan's. However, I don't see how Mace is WANTING a kill. That's just not the way of a Jedi (except Anakin.) In fact, that could be an advantage for Tyranus (a lust for victory, killing, whatever.)

BlackDove
06-29-2002, 04:53 PM
The way the Sith fight is going for a kill. Mace has been trained to go for the kill. He is no longer defending himself as much as attacking. He has been trained in the skills that are a bit above Tyranus'. In AOTC you can see that Anakin and Dooku have the same way of fightning. One completes the moves of the other. Basically one is like the reflection of another (you can check the movie heh), which means Anakin already reached Dooku's level of fencing.

Mace...is a whole OTHER level...

EffJi
06-29-2002, 06:47 PM
I think that Dooku would win.

I mean he was smiling during his fight with Kenobi!"!!! ("surely you can do better").
Mace would do something stupid (like picking a fight with Tyranus in the first place) and get his saber-hand cut off.

Tyranus IS fighting old school, not concentrating on deflecting blaster shots but fighting against a saber-weilding opponent.

JaseP
06-29-2002, 08:14 PM
I have to agree that Tyranus would win.

It's be a good fight though...

But Tyranus is too well trained and just too sinister to loose against Windu. Don't get me wrong, I think Mace Windu is a serious bad-@$$ for a Jedi, but I still think the character Tyranus is damn good and very competant. He was willing to take on Yoda for goodness sake,... that's got to speak volumes about his belief in his ability. He was also doing pretty well against the pint sized muppet...

******************

Off the topic a little is how cool I think the special effects were. Digitally mapping Christopher Lee's face on a stunt double for the saber scenes was fantastic Lee is now 80 years old after all... There is no way he could have done the scenes himself...

Who Knows?
06-30-2002, 01:48 PM
I think Tyranus would. After all didn't Tyranus train Windu like Qui-Gon did Obi-wan. This would lead me to believe Tyranus would have and upper hand in knowing Windu's saber style. Sure Windu would know what Tyranus taught him but He might not have been taught all of Tyranus's secrets in sabering.

Arkum
06-30-2002, 02:08 PM
I don't care what a book says.

Windu whould own Tyranus.

Plus I like what u saaid about saying Dooku, it sounds kiddy, I agree.

He was smiling against Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan is a Jedi Knigh, not a Jedi Master like Mace Windu is.

Personally I would like to see Yoda kill Tyranus. In the original script, Yoda was suposed to knock Tyranus to the ground, stand on his head, and stab him, but Lucas decided it would look wierd, so they cut the part out. The original script also caled for Tyranus to use 2 lightsabers against Yoda, picking up Anakin's.

oninosensi
06-30-2002, 02:22 PM
Mace could just simply out-cool Sidious.

'nuff said.:D

Lime-Light
06-30-2002, 02:25 PM
a tie. hmmm

Shadow Angel
06-30-2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by oninosensi
Mace could just simply out-cool Sidious.



I thought this was about Mace vs. Tyranus, not Sidious. Or was that a typo?

Yoda_623
06-30-2002, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by Shadow Angel


I thought this was about Mace vs. Tyranus, not Sidious. Or was that a typo?
Its Tyrannus. But anyway Mace would win. No contest.

shidobu
07-01-2002, 12:41 AM
Originally posted by JaseP
I have to agree that Tyranus would win.

He was willing to take on Yoda for goodness sake,... that's got to speak volumes about his belief in his ability. He was also doing pretty well against the pint sized muppet...



True, but we have no reason to believe that skill with a lightsaber is directly proportional to skill with the Force. Yoda likely would not have trained with his saber as much as windu would have, because his stature puts him at a disadvantage from the start. Also remember, that Yoda is already very old by the time he engages in his fight with Dooku. Windu, on the other hand, is a Jedi Master in his prime. He would probably be a better duelist than Yoda.

Crazy_Taco
07-01-2002, 01:01 AM
Tyrannus, ALL HAIL THE DARK LORD WHO WILL DIE IN THE NEXT MOVIE!!! I pick him

BlackDove
07-01-2002, 01:04 AM
Uhh people...there is no debate at all...Mace would win...it's a fact, not a guess...

EffJi
07-01-2002, 02:52 AM
What did we really see Mace do in the movie?

We saw him killing some driods and a blaster armed Jango whos jetpack is malfunctioning.

Anakin could do that!!!!! And he got his arm cut off!!!!

We never know how much better yoda is than Mace.
Yoda might come in first place. And then, after a big space, Mace.

Just because the actor is cool doesn't mean the character is a good saber-fighter.


On a side note: I don't think Samuel L Jackson is very convincing as a jedi. He has a "look at me I'm so cool" voice, while everyone else sounds calm.

JandoFett1842
07-01-2002, 04:59 AM
Mace was a good fighter! So is obi wan, yet he got a ass kicken from Dookie

Guardian Omega
07-01-2002, 05:19 AM
I say Darth Tyranus. Why? He's fighting Form II, lightsaber vs. lightsaber. Form VII is designed for blaster fighting, not saber. Besides, since the Sith were supposely gone, barely anyone does saber vs saber. Fighting blasters are much different than saber attacking, because you also need to strike back too.

Oh yeah, to the guy who said Anakin and Tyranus were fighting like each other, Anakin got taken out quickly with an arm to show. :p

And fighting with 2 lightsabers will increase speed but lower down power, therefore you get knocked back easy. Plus Tyranus knocked Yoda away before Yoda stabbed him in the orignal.......

oninosensi
07-01-2002, 05:30 AM
Posted by: Shadow Angel
I thought this was about Mace vs. Tyranus, not Sidious. Or was that a typo?

Sidious, Tyranus, Vader, Maul... any of them

Sam's coolness factor cannot be defeated :D

Darth Talliusc
07-01-2002, 09:59 AM
the way i see it, yes tyranus is powerful and in his prime he would probably best the jedi master but according to the starwars books tyranus is over 400 years old, now the force does slow aging but the darkside speeds it up, i believe that while tyranus would take some time before he was killed mace would go shaft on his arse!

Redwing
07-01-2002, 10:16 AM
From the Visual Dictionary:


A Form VII instructor, Mace Windu is one of the best living lightsaber fighters in the Jedi order. Only high-level masters of multiple forms can acheive and control Form VII. This dangerous regimen cuts perilously close to the Sith focus on physical combat ability.

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by Darth Talliusc
according to the starwars books tyranus is over 400 years old, now the force does slow aging but the darkside speeds it up,

Tyranus is 400 years old!?? Where does it say that!? I mean, I believe you, but I don't believe the source you got it from. I don't think humans can live that long, even in the Star Wars universe. I mean, Palpatine is 50 during Episode I, and Mace is between 30-40 years.

And as for the Dark Side speeding up your aging process, that's not true. Although it DOES make you look older and uglier (compare Episode I and Episode II Palpatine) the hatred prolongs Palpatine's life (this can be confirmed in the Original Trilogy Visual Dictionary, like so many other things.) The Dark Side is also what keeps Vader alive. His suit only helps, but it's his dark will that sustains him.

And oninosensi, although I don't consider myself a bad guy person, I think Tyranus (not by much), Vader, and especially Sidious are cooler than Mace (I don't like Darth Maul much, though, he's not much more than Sidious' grunt.) I think Mace is cool, too, but I just like the three mentioned Sith better.

Pada-Wan
07-01-2002, 11:46 AM
mace would beat dooku. no contest

Darth Joka'ar
07-01-2002, 02:15 PM
Yo Shadow Angel, where do you get to read the Visual Dictionary?:c3po:

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 02:21 PM
Barnes & Noble. My mom takes my baby brother and sister to play with those Thomas the Tank Engine train sets in the kids' section a lot, so that gives me a chance to frequent the Star Wars and comic book shelves. They have a lot of good literature. I'd suggest you check it out. Especially a short comic in Star Wars Tales: Volume 1, called "A Death Star Is Born." It's a very funny comic about how the Death Star was conceived. It involves Bevel Lemelisk of EU, which is totally wiped out by the Death Star cameo in AOTC, but what the hell? It's a laugh.

Darth Joka'ar
07-01-2002, 02:40 PM
Oh I see, well I thought if I can find it online anywhere :bdroid2:

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 02:55 PM
They have all their Star Wars books, hell, pretty much all their books, available online at www.bn.com. If you were referring to a free .pdf scan, you can try the KaZaa peer-to-peer program. (If you don't know what that is, www.kazaa.com) As far as Star Wars goes, you'll find mostly literature for the Star Wars Roleplaying Game (think SW meets Dungeons & Dragons.) But I won't delve into that any longer 'cause I don't want to be banned or whatever.

Pogwaffle
07-01-2002, 09:29 PM
Speaking of types of saber combat forms, does anybody know what form yoda specialises in or does he just go freelance.

kfretz
07-01-2002, 10:49 PM
Mace Windu is Samuel L. Jackson............enough said

teutonicknight
07-02-2002, 01:30 AM
Dooku would win.

Look at what we saw in EP 2:

Windu: Kills a bunch of droids, and jango fett

Dooku: Defeats Anakin, Obi Wan, and duels Yoda and wins.

s0ulblihtr
07-02-2002, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by teutonicknight
Dooku would win.

Look at what we saw in EP 2:

Windu: Kills a bunch of droids, and jango fett

Dooku: Defeats Anakin, Obi Wan, and duels Yoda and wins.
Man... what fight did you see taking place?

You must've been in Star Wars Alternate dimension or something...

Dooku got his arse handed to him. He pimped Dooku like he owed him a weeks worth of trickin'.

As far as Dooku vs. Mace... Mace all the way. Mace's Sabering skills are only rivaled by Yoda. Dooku was once a jedi, so he would have been included in that equation, and since the only one that comes close to Mace is Yoda- in what is known of the Jedi's and Sith (esclude Sidious, because no one had fought him) -Mace is the man.

Nothing else needs to be said in this matter... thread closed.

Quin Jai-Obaj
07-02-2002, 04:02 AM
windu kicks ass. but tyranus would win. he sivered anakans arm. diced up obi wan. (without sivering any limbs) and held off yoda for a long time. it would be a wicked fight but tyranus would win.

Shadow Angel
07-02-2002, 06:58 AM
Well, if you judge Mace's ability to fight by what actor he plays, I suppose if he were played by, say, Jimmy Smits (who's also in the film as Bail Organa) people wouldn't be so fast to vote for him. And Christopher Lee (Tyranus) has had some good roles in the past, too. He's starred as Dracula. He was Scaramanga, the Man with the Golden Gun, in the film of the same name. He played as Saruman the White in Lord of the Rings, and will continue that role in The Two Towers.

Ray Stantz
07-02-2002, 08:58 AM
I dont think it really matters since Dooku and Windu will both be defeated by Anakin.

Besides Windu would win. If Anakin can hurt Dooku during the Lightsaber duel (another deleted scene) then Windu could own him.

Ben_Walker
07-02-2002, 09:57 AM
I vote for Shaft, opps wrong film. I mean I vote for Windu. I think it would be a tough duel :lsduel: but Mace would come out on top. :mace:

Ben_Walker
07-02-2002, 10:10 AM
I just got a strangly funny image if Arnold Schwarzenegger played Mace Windu and if Silvester Stallone played Darth Tyrranus. Then I got a funny image of them saying their lines.

Pedantic
07-02-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by Shadow Angel
However, you can find out MUCH more about lightsabers and saber combat from a technical viewpoint here.

http://www.synicon.com.au/sw/ls/sabres.htm

The only problem with that site is that it hasn't been updated in a long time, and covers nothing about AOTC.

Heh, more like a Japanese sword-fighting perspective. :)

Darth Groovy
07-02-2002, 04:34 PM
What about Darth Maul vs Mace Windu? ::::listens to the oohs and ahhhs::::

Darth Joka'ar
07-02-2002, 09:38 PM
Surely Windu take him down easily. Wanna challenge the Master of Form VII?

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 11:12 AM
'O

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 04:55 PM
MWAHAHAHA!!! Your feeble skills are no match for the power of the 'O! *bloodcurdling scream*

Tyranus would own Mace. Seriously. I cannot believe anyone who disagrees here. That's right, punk. I'm talking to you! That's it, YOU!

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 05:16 PM
Well, I voted for Tyranus.

:fett: My dad was hired by Tyranus!

JrKASperov
07-03-2002, 10:16 PM
Darth Tyranus would win I think, simply because he fought Obi-Wan and didnt break a sweat.... Darth Vader and Obi-Wan to me was an easy break for Obi, it's just that Obi didn't want to fight...

Pedantic
07-03-2002, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar
Surely Windu take him down easily. Wanna challenge the Master of Form VII?

Who better than the master of Form II? ;) :D

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 10:24 PM
HeyPedantic I was replying to darthgroovyii on Maul Vs. Windu. Sure Windu will take him down

As for Master of Form II,well...I just stated alredi...


:c3po:

Pedantic
07-03-2002, 11:09 PM
Ummm...sorry, I didn't realize it was you who started this thread.

Darth Knight
07-03-2002, 11:21 PM
windu is like one of my favorite jedi and i would want him to win but i do think he would lose

Darth Joka'ar
07-04-2002, 01:25 AM
Actaully it was kinda same theory. If Dooku is Master of Form II which he claim to be, he will have a chance of roughly +-75% over Windu.

Well if u are having a spegeti mee(spelling), which one is more confortable to serve?Spoon or Fork?U still can serve it with spoon but izzit fork is rather more suitable?

PS:Dont talk chopstick with me, I am a chinese ya know:D

Darth Joka'ar
07-04-2002, 01:46 AM
Hey, I got some info about Lightsaber Form from other forum.

Form I: No info, but they assume that this is a basic, form used by all jedi covered in EWP: Lightsabre)

Form II: Count Dooku uses this. It si a very ancient form that uses long elegant moves and deftness of hand.

From III: Is what Obi-Wan uses. Type 3 was invent to counter blaster weapons and focuses on high speed deflection of projectiles by the lightsaber. It is also the form that most Jedi use as it is the symbol of non-agressive fighting.


From IV: Anakin learned this. This form uses powerful long blows to beat down opponents defences.


Form V: The Dual-Lighsaber training, with a defensive focus.


Form VI: Assuming this is Yoda's style, one which emphasizes fighting a larger opponent by using the force to give the Jedi exceptional maneuverability...

Form VII: Mace Windu knows this. To master form 7 one must master the previous 6 forms. This focuses so much on attack and has similaritites to sith combat forms that the form is almost considered Taboo.




The situation is becomming more and more critical. If those are true, I really need to reconsider all my post here.

Darth Joka'ar
07-04-2002, 01:48 AM
What is Taboo anyway?:c3po:

Darth Joka'ar
07-04-2002, 03:27 PM
It seems Windu would win if those info I get is true....

Shadow Angel
07-04-2002, 03:31 PM
I see you're desperate to keep this thread alive, too?

Well, as for Mace and your Form VII theory, not from what I saw. All I saw him do was block some shots and slice a few droids. No killer moves there.

Darth Joka'ar
07-04-2002, 03:55 PM
Not desperate at all :c3po: hehe.....

What is Taboo mean?

Pedantic
07-04-2002, 04:48 PM
Taboo means forbidden.

Darth Groovy
07-05-2002, 04:53 PM
Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar
Surely Windu take him down easily. Wanna challenge the Master of Form VII?

Maul or Tyranus?

"Which was destroyed....the master or the apprentice?"

_Mace Windu

Darth Joka'ar
07-05-2002, 05:58 PM
Originally posted by ME!!!!
Surely Windu take him down easily. Wanna challenge the Master of Form VII?


Originally posted by darthgroovyii

Maul or Tyranus?

"Which was destroyed....the master or the apprentice?"

_Mace Windu


I was saying Maul Vs. Windu back then. I would say Master of Form VII wins...probably chopping Mauls head down.....( I am a fans of Maul:( ...damn...)

So, I hoped Master Mace Windu would be killed by Darth Sidious...since he is the Master of Form VII.