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View Full Version : Darth Sidious vs. Yoda: Clash of the Titans


Shadow Angel
06-29-2002, 02:33 PM
This debate is based on what I posted in the "Most Powerful Jedi" thread almost 24 hours ago. It seemed that everyone was voting either Anakin, Yoda, or Sidious. I took that opportunity to argue why Sidious is the most powerful of them all (he IS my favorite character, after all, and I can get really worked up over that sometimes) but many people disagreed. That's okay, but I'd like to have everyone's opinion on the matter. Here's my original post on the "Most Powerful Jedi" thread. It doesn't really say why Sidious would beat Yoda, but it's still a good reference.

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It seems to me that this entire debate is a three-way tie between Anakin, Sidious, and Yoda. I think Luke is better than Anakin, considering that Yoda trained him for, what, 3 days? If you compare his learning rate to the average prequel-era Jedi, Luke would be on the Council within a week! However, Yoda still seems to be more powerful than him, so I'm going to rule both Skywalkers out.

It comes down to Yoda and Sidious, at complete opposite ends of the Force spectrum. Personally, I think Sidious dominates (and not just because he's my favorite fictional character of all time and he rocks.)
You see, in the old trilogy, before AOTC ever came around, we saw Yoda as all talk, looking like an old, worn-out Muppet reject who couldn't walk three feet. I mean, sure, he lifted the X-wing out of the swamp, but other than that, he just blabbered about the Force and in ROTJ, he just said a few lines and died! (I'm not trying to diss Yoda, he's cool, you'll see my point in a minute.)

Unfortunately, this also applies to Sidious/Palpatine. In ROTJ, I expected to see one bad@$$ tough-looking dude, and what did I get? A decrepit old man on a friggin' cane! In the movies, all we see him do is either throw Lightning (which is still awesome) or talk through holograms with his face covered (wish I could too.) Back to Yoda:

Here comes AOTC. Still, here's Yoda, meditating and giving orders, sending clonetroopers to their deaths, but still no action. Then comes the hangar scene with Tyranus. A short 30-second fighting sequence and Yoda's the biggest action hero of the summer, and we all put him on the top of the most powerful Jedi list.
Now, if this trend continues, I have a feeling that in Episode III, we'll get to see the full extent of Sidious's dark powers with flinging boulders, whipping up lightning storms, maybe swinging bad@$$ dual purple lightsabers, and soon he'll replace Darth Maul as the official T-shirt bad guy (notice how there are so many Darth Maul T-shirts?)
And, of course, since I'm a HUGE Palpatine fan, this is good for me and now I can wear a Palpatine T-shirt and have a LOT more Palpatine JKII skins to download (just like how there are so many Maul skins out there.)

So, my vote goes to Darth Sidious. Long live the Emperor.

:lightning

-- End. (I'm still learning how to format the texts and stuff, otherwise, I would have had the above text in bold or something.)

BlackDove
06-29-2002, 03:29 PM
1on1 Yoda...

Ben_Walker
06-29-2002, 06:06 PM
Well I have to vote for Yoda. First off, I bet if he focused all his energy he'd probery be able to fight for a while with the skill we saw against Tyrannus. But I'd love to see Yoda and Sidious going head to head, going all out in a lightsaber battle. If Lucas can turn Yoda into one fast little bugger, he probery can do something to give Sidious an advantage as a saberist. I think that if they did have a battle, it would be really close and go on for awhile, but I would have to say that Yoda would come out on top.



But I do agree with you on the part about the emperor in the original's. You would've expected a guy like Emperor Katarn. Big strong guy with the power to destroy life in a star system within his breath. Or even one of the Palpatine young clones from Dark Empire.


But it would be cool to see Yoda using his full power of the lightside battling Sidious using the maximin of his dark power.

Tyrion
06-29-2002, 07:28 PM
Hmmm...tough one.We dont know Sidious' true power,so I dont know.I would vote Sidious,tho because he is just too creepy to be a weakling.

Shadow Angel
06-29-2002, 07:43 PM
Hmm... addressing the issue of Palpatine being old and weak, it says in the Star Wars (Original Trilogy) Visual Dictionary that he uses a cane to appear weak to his enemies, not because he needs it. It's rather similar to how Yoda doesn't need his cane either (well, when he's not using the Force.)

Yoda_623
06-29-2002, 11:34 PM
I'm still goin with Yoda. From what I saw it was a pretty close fight. Hopefully they'll finish it in the next film.

Darth Joka'ar
06-30-2002, 12:51 AM
Well Shadow Angel, I have some uestion for you. You see, I have posted a issue about Darth Sidious is Emperor Palpatine in another forum.The result is, there several member do not agree with it. Their reasons are

-The plot is too obivious

-GL is trying to give some surpise(like DV is Luke father,Leia is sister).

-Most of us is using the sequel to predict the prequel

-Some other $h!t that I have forgotten

There for,are u sure DS is EP? I am not trying to flame you but I am just a Padawan Fan looking for answers:p

Quin Jai-Obaj
06-30-2002, 01:14 AM
acutualy i have no clue
they both rock. with their powers if they clashed it would be great. but if i had to choose it would be yoda.

Darth Joka'ar
07-01-2002, 01:15 AM
Keep this alive, My question is still not answered:confused:

ondraedan
07-01-2002, 01:20 AM
I'd say sidious would be most powerful, but I think anakin had the potential to be most powerful, if he completed his training and become a jedi knight. He was, after all, conceived by mediclorians(sp?).

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 02:14 AM
Darth Joka'ar, I''m quite confident that Sidious and Palpatine are one and the same. Think about it: How else would you explain Palpatine being a Sith Lord after "rescuing" Vader from the molten pit? Episode III is only a couple of years from AOTC (and yes, it's confirmed that the Vader suit will be in the movie.)

Plus, it's evident in AOTC that he's evil. He talks privately with Anakin in his office about him being the most powerful Jedi, not needing direction and so forth. Also, he's aged WAY faster than normal since Episode I. The toll of the Dark Side is showing in his face.

If anything else, the actor for Darth Sidious is not listed in the credits, suggesting that Ian McDiarmid (the actor for Palpatine, even in ROTJ) is filling the role.

Now, I know that it's not confirmed that they're the same, but I'm pretty sure. And if Episode III comes around and he's someone else, I'm going to feel like one big n00b. (or something else, I'm not fluent in Internet slang.)

Darth Joka'ar
07-01-2002, 02:26 AM
Explain why the Jedi Counsel couldnt sense the Force in Palpatine(again not to flame:p )

I got one saying that Palpatine is the clone of Sidious. Then Sidious take Palpatine place and become the Emperor.:p

JandoFett1842
07-01-2002, 08:14 AM
Sidious/Palpy would try to zap him with FL, Yoda would obsorbe it into his hand and send it back, then pull out his saber and bust out some kung fu stances the sic Sidious out and then jump around Sidious so fast that he would be cut into 100 pices before 30 seconds of fighing!

MotionMan
07-01-2002, 09:07 AM
First off I think Yoda would win.

Ok then Now ill say that I think Sidious is an awsome charecter and I love the siths:).
Anyhow I wasnt sure about Sidious using a saber in ep.3 But after I saw a pic of his with a saber i changed my mind. Its a fake but it looks awsome.
http://www.thelightsaber.com/epIIupdate/17.GIF
Hopefully he uses one and fights someone like Mace or another Jedi.

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by MotionMan

Ok then Now ill say that I think Sidious is an awsome charecter and I love the siths:).
Anyhow I wasnt sure about Sidious using a saber in ep.3 But after I saw a pic of his with a saber i changed my mind. Its a fake but it looks awsome.
http://www.thelightsaber.com/epIIupdate/17.GIF
Hopefully he uses one and fights someone like Mace or another Jedi.

That pic is sweet, so I added it to my collection of Sidious/Palpatine images. If you're into Expanded Universe, you'd know that in the Dark Empire comic series that 6 or so years after ROTJ, Palpatine is reborn in a young clone body, and duels Luke with a lightsaber. I would, though, imagine that if Mace dies at Sidious' hands, it would be by some Dark Side magic rather than a saber. That would be cool if it was by a saber, though.

Answering Darth Joka'ar's question, that's a really good arguement point towards the Sidious-is-not-Palpatine people. The best I can explain that is because Palpatine knows of a skill that can cloak his "aura of evil." He's a cool character, he can a lot of things. In Expanded Universe sources, like Dark Empire, Palpatine can transfer his soul into clone bodies if his current body dies, he can create Force Storms that are more devastating than hurricanes, use a lightsaber, and a bunch of other stuff. To further argue this, Mace stated that the Jedi's ability to use the Force has diminished. They couldn't sense the attack of Padme's ship, or that Tyranus would leave the Order. They didn't even know he was a Sith until he revealed it to Obi-Wan and Anakin.

That really rubs it in Yoda's and Mace's face when they're in Palpatine's office, pondering over the Sith and the Dark Side, when they're staring right at Palpatine.
Oh, yes, I forgot to say that in Episode I, during Qui-Gon's funeral, right after Mace asks who was destroyed, the master or the apprentice, the camera shifts to a close-up of Palpatine. Finally, also in Episode I, Palpatine says to Anakin (not the exact line, I don't thnk) "We look forward to your career with great interest." It's also obvious that he's power-hungry. I mean, he really pushes Padme to vote out Chancellor Valorum, he comments that the Republic needs a strong Chancellor, emphasizing the word "strong." That's quite an understatement, as he becomes a dictator. The Clone Wars gives him an opportunity to stay in office beyond the term limit, build an army of stormtroopers (wether the clones are stormtroopers or not should be discussed elsewhere, but it says in The Art of Episode II that they're supposed to evolve into the original trilogy troopers) and, if you go to www.holonetnews.com, which is an official Lucasfilm site with news reports as if you were a citizen in Episode II, it should say that the news channel is closed for emergency purposes by the Office of the Supreme Chancellor. This is how the Emperor censors anti-Imperial news articles.

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 12:06 PM
Wait a minute, I just noticed a "Is Darth Sidious really Palpatine" thread right below this one! D'oh! Alright, this is going to be the last word about them being the same or not. To further argue the issue of Yoda not sensing Palpatine in his office, how come the Empire couldn't find Obi-Wan or Yoda? (and if you bring up the Expanded Universe reason of the Dark Jedi's spirit in the cave concealing Yoda, that still doesn't explain Obi-Wan, and I can say that Palpatine had a ysalamiri in his pocket.)

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by JandoFett1842
Sidious/Palpy would try to zap him with FL, Yoda would obsorbe it into his hand and send it back, then pull out his saber and bust out some kung fu stances the sic Sidious out and then jump around Sidious so fast that he would be cut into 100 pices before 30 seconds of fighing!

Palpatine's lightning is WAY more powerful than Tyranus', and Sidious must be at least as good with lightsabers as Darth Maul, because in Expanded Universe (how many times do I have to say that?) he trained Maul from birth every thing he knows, including lightsabers. I haven't read any Maul books (I got this from a reference document), but Maul's final test (or one of them) was dueling Sidious, and he lost!
Even if you don't take EU into account, how else does Maul know how to use the lightsaber? So my point is that Sidious, although we never see him use one in the movies, should be very competent in using one. If not, I think Tyranus would kill Sidious for the title of Sith Master. In fact, that's how a lot of Sith become the Master. And don't give me the brainwashing bull, Tyranus has been sort of a rebel since the start of his career, and he never swore allegiance to anything, not even the Jedi, so I don't think he's sworn total allegiance to Sidious (which could be one reason why Sidious gets rid of him.)

If you think the current announcer in JKII multiplayer sucks (The Force is (not) with you"), you MUST check out this thread.

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=65555

Darth Joka'ar
07-01-2002, 01:21 PM
Does this liitle Ysalimiri does exist in EU?

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 01:42 PM
Yeah, Raven got the ysalamiri idea from Timothy Zahn's book, Heir to the Empire, pretty much the most famous and liked book in the EU. (By the way, I'm not a HUGE fan of EU, but I have to say that Heir to the Empire and it's sequels are masterpieces. They should have gotten him to write the script for Episode I (it'd be better than the existing one, anyway.)

Anyway, the ysalamiri is a slug-like thing that, as you probably know, it's natural defense in the wild is creating a bubble that sort of deletes the existence of the Force. This is how Grand Admiral thrawn, the leader of the Empire at this time, controls a Dark Jedi as his pawn. When Luke was in a jungle surrounded by these things, he couldn't sense the Force at all. He felt like a normal, non Force-sensitive guy.

I was joking about the thought of Palpatine carrying a ysalamiri with him, but the idea DOES have merit. After all, I think Lucas is trying to bridge the gap between canon and EU (he added Aayla Secura, an EU character, for one thing, and the double-bladed saber, another EU concept.) The Council (to my knowledge) doesn't know about ysalamiri, and that would explain why Yoda says "The Dark Side clouds everything." Oh, now that I think about it, this is another reason why Sidious would beat Yoda. If only one or two Sith can cloud the judgement of the entire Jedi Order, Sidious must be a powerhouse of Dark Side energy. And besides, if Yoda could indeed beat Sidious, then why must he spend his life in a swamp area, instead of going out and whipping Sidious? If you ask me, it's because Yoda's afraid that Sidious would open a can of Whoop-Ass on him (that's a real drink, you know.) Seriously, though, I wouldn't say that Yoda would go down in 3 seconds, he'd put up a good fight, but Sidious would win.

Darth Joka'ar
07-01-2002, 01:54 PM
Hmm....you got a point, maybe Plapatine is really carrying a Ysamiri if he is Sidious.

Make sense.

Shadow Angel
07-01-2002, 02:15 PM
Hey, hey, our avatars match! I just noticed that (or did you change it just now?) Anyway, I wasn't really serious about the ysalamiri, but it's still a valid arguement point for those who believe they're the same person. As you can see in the Is Palpatine really Sidious thread, almost everyone agrees. But, like I said before, no more on that arguement. I want to keep the Sidious vs. Yoda topic alive in hopes that people will realize that Sidious is the MASTER, or at least, will acknowledge that he'd put up a good fight. By the way, Lord Joka'ar, who did you vote for?

In fact, to restart the debate again, I'll say that Sidious is THE BOMB and will mercilessly butcher Yoda with his saber of darkness and take his soul Mortal Kombat-style. (He he, just messing with the Yoda fans/Sidious haters/etc. Yoda supporters can proceed with the flaming now.)

Darth Joka'ar
07-01-2002, 02:33 PM
Well, about the avatar, I need to explain from the beginning.

-I saw SW E IV,V,VI looooong ago,but doesnt seem to like it.

-Played JK:JO II(recommended by friends)HELL,it a GREAT game!

-Watch SW Esp II in cinema with my friends(GREAT MOVIE)couldnt able to express with words:c3po:

-Starting to trace the old source of SW.

-Founded EPS I TPM.Cool! I like the way DM handling OB1 and QGJ,damn cool I say!

-Founded the rest EPs IV,V,VI(quite disappointing the Saber Duel)wat can I say, it was film loong ago with old equipments

-Picking the avatar,founded Darth Maul hologram pic,nice,so put it on.

BCanr2d2
07-01-2002, 07:34 PM
Hey, I've heard the argument of "They put it on the back of the Episode 1 DVD/Video that Sidious is Palpatine" which I respond to with "Would GL, if he is anywhere near smart, going to reveal a major plot point on the back of a DVD/Video release?"

Everything with GL is true, unless he makes you believe otherwise in the next movie.
I have an 85-90% feeling that Sidious is Palpatine, but that 10-15% tells me not to trust GL, that he may not be the same person, and the opening scenes of Episode 3 may have some shocking revelation, after the usual spaceship and pan to a planet....

teutonicknight
07-02-2002, 01:39 AM
Yoda:

Why? Because the light side always wins!!

Shadow Angel
07-02-2002, 06:46 AM
That's not true. Darth Maul killed Qui-Gon, Vader killed Obi-Wan, Tyranus owned Anakin and Obi-Wan. Plus, two Sith (Sidious and Vader) took out all the Jedi in the galaxy but 2, and those two are wasting their lives in hiding.

Shadow Angel
07-02-2002, 05:38 PM
What? My poll is already off of page 1? Argh! I'm kind of jealous at Darth Joka'ar 'cause his Mace vs. Tyranus poll has 38 posts and this one has only 24. And I thought this would be the ultimate grudge match, too. Well, I'm going to have to fix that. Spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam!!!

Okay, I'm done. If you haven't put in a thought yet, do so. A little more in depth of exactly why Yoda is better than Sidious (I'm assuming that's who you're going to vote for, everyone else 'sides me has.) instead of just "Yoda rulz" or the like. Damn that 30-second Yoda action scene in AOTC!

Jeez, even the Powerpuff movie line is bigger than this one!

Darth Joka'ar
07-02-2002, 09:28 PM
Well my friend, I actually choose those guys with potensial(spelling:p ).

Like Anakin and Maul quite good match
Jango and Maul ( damn not very popular
Mace and Tyranus(good result)

Better luck next time my friend.hehe:amidala:

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 11:17 AM
'O

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 11:56 AM
What's with the "O'", anyway?

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 04:10 PM
To save the thread:c3po:

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 04:16 PM
I'm going to shamelessly do that so I can get past the 100 post mark faster.

'O

That felt good.

Does anyone have an opinion on this match? Seriously.

Darth Groovy
07-03-2002, 04:21 PM
:syoda: pretty much says it all doesn't it?

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 04:22 PM
Well if u ask me, I will wait till I see the Emperor true ability.:amidala:

Darth Groovy
07-03-2002, 04:28 PM
Do you really think we will see Sid in action? At this point I truly don't know what is going to happen. If h does anyting will it be with a saber or just shooting peeps up with lightning bolts?

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 04:35 PM
That would be cool if Sidious levitated a Jedi and sucked the life out of him until he was a skeleton, like in The Mummy.

Or, of course, if he had a (purple) lightsaber and dueled someone like Mace Windu to the death. Hey, Tyranus is much older than Sidious, so it could happen. And if Yoda is 900 years old, Sidious should have no prob. After all, they both would just let the Force flow through them and let it control their actions, right?

Guardian Omega
07-04-2002, 05:32 AM
Although common sense would call Yoda the winner, it brings up the point why he would hide all the damn time.........

You could say he's facing the whole empire, but what about before it? I'm sure Yoda and friends can handle a mob of people with mass mind tricks and so. (Sidious can influence the whole Senate, so why not Yoda can't influence the mobs?)

I'd say Sidious............

s0ulblihtr
07-04-2002, 07:31 AM
OK I read through the whole thread... and now I am ready to reply. My vote goes to yoda. Heres why:

Firstly, the only reason Yoda did not go and fight the rest of empire was not because he was just going into hiding scared for his life, its because he was wise enough to know that the lightside was going to come back and win in the end. He knew that to go in wreckless fighting the empire was stupid. I mean he was only one person. One person alone could not defeat a new empire. Too much to get through. He went into hiding because he knew luke would be coming (not "luke", but he knew someone would be coming to restore the light). Knowing that... he went in to hiding to prepare to teach the one who would restore the light. Yoda could definitely destroy Sidious... no doubt. Yoda was too old and to intuned with the force not to. Sidious had stretched his tentacles so far under the surface of the force that he was able to hide from the eyes of the light side. Up close and personal... Yoda dominated him. As old as yoda was when he fought Tyranus, he still had the speed and power of someone in their prime. 10 years would make no difference. Sidious would still be dominated as Tyranus was, although possibly with more difficulty. Yoda has had much more time and experience to hone his ablilities in the force than Sidious. As Yoda told Tyranus there was much that he hadn't learned in the force... the same goes with Sidious. When dealing with Jedi's age mattered little, and Yoda's experience and life in the force was far and beyond that of Sidious...


Yoda... would take Sidious' nice and spectacular Dark force powers and make them look like cheap side show tricks. We have all seen What types of powers Sidious has in the end, but we have not seen the likes of Yoda's. Yoda's had a long life and I am sure he has his sleeve crammed full of tricks to deal with dark jedis of immense power.

obi
07-04-2002, 07:34 AM
Yoda. you want a reason? read soulblihter's post.

:)

"Found someone you have.:

:yoda:

s0ulblihtr
07-04-2002, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Yoda. you want a reason? read soulblihter's post.

:)

"Found someone you have.:

:yoda:

:D

Twilite Zoner
07-04-2002, 01:07 PM
Well considering they are the last of the Jedi, they knew that at least one of them needs to survive to teach either Luke or Leia the ways of the Force. It just makes sense. Also my take on why the Empire did not find out about them is that the Force has an impact on not only the weak mind but the overconfident one as well. To me Vader and the Emperor were waaaay overconfident in thier abilities.

Darth Groovy
07-05-2002, 04:08 PM
Yoda.

s0ulblihtr
07-05-2002, 11:22 PM
Hey shadow Angel... I'm interested in what you have to say about my post...

Shadow Angel
07-06-2002, 01:08 PM
Is this the one you're talking about?


Originally posted by s0ulblihtr
OK I read through the whole thread... and now I am ready to reply. My vote goes to yoda. Heres why:

Firstly, the only reason Yoda did not go and fight the rest of empire was not because he was just going into hiding scared for his life, its because he was wise enough to know that the lightside was going to come back and win in the end. He knew that to go in wreckless fighting the empire was stupid. I mean he was only one person. One person alone could not defeat a new empire. Too much to get through. He went into hiding because he knew luke would be coming (not "luke", but he knew someone would be coming to restore the light). Knowing that... he went in to hiding to prepare to teach the one who would restore the light. Yoda could definitely destroy Sidious... no doubt. Yoda was too old and to intuned with the force not to. Sidious had stretched his tentacles so far under the surface of the force that he was able to hide from the eyes of the light side. Up close and personal... Yoda dominated him. As old as yoda was when he fought Tyranus, he still had the speed and power of someone in their prime. 10 years would make no difference. Sidious would still be dominated as Tyranus was, although possibly with more difficulty. Yoda has had much more time and experience to hone his ablilities in the force than Sidious. As Yoda told Tyranus there was much that he hadn't learned in the force... the same goes with Sidious. When dealing with Jedi's age mattered little, and Yoda's experience and life in the force was far and beyond that of Sidious...


Yoda... would take Sidious' nice and spectacular Dark force powers and make them look like cheap side show tricks. We have all seen What types of powers Sidious has in the end, but we have not seen the likes of Yoda's. Yoda's had a long life and I am sure he has his sleeve crammed full of tricks to deal with dark jedis of immense power.

Can't argue the point about Yoda in hiding. Think it's kind of bad for him to watch billions of lives, including his Jedi colleagues suffer and die, but what can I say? It's a good point.

About Sidious not knowing much about the Force, we just don't know how much he knows, but I have a feeling that it's a great deal. After all, I wouldn't take someone who managed to rule the galaxy with an iron fist, clean 99.9% of the Jedi from existence, and more, very lightly. An opinion on both sides on that, though, so it can't be solved until Episode III. I, however, HIGHLY disagree on how we have seen Sidious' full potential, but not Yoda's. We haven't seen either until Episode III, and you don't give Sidious a chance to prove himself because the only screen time he has to do something is in the end of ROTJ, and he only needed to use one power.

But if ANYONE says that Vader, Tyranus, or especially Maul can take down Yoda, you're really messed up. Sidious is clearly more powerful than all three of them. Well, Vader can be argued some, but if Tyranus were more powerful, he would have killed Sidious and become Master because that's the way he is, and in the novel it says that he's inferior to him. As for Maul, who else could have taught him the lightsaber but Sidious?

So there you go. One final thing: if you count EU, then Sidious is ridiculously powerful. The Force Storms are like nukes, he can transfer his soul into a young clone body, and he does use a lightsaber. In the Thrawn trilogy, it says that he was mind-controlling the entire Imperial fleet AND worrying about Luke and Vader at the same time. After he "died" in the bottomless pit, the Imperials lost their "skills" and the battle was lost.

Anything else to argue? I welcome productive/positive criticism or arguement points. I love this thread. Except maybe that I'm the only one going for Sidious, but still.

s0ulblihtr
07-07-2002, 12:04 AM
Originally posted by Shadow Angel
Is this the one you're talking about?




Can't argue the point about Yoda in hiding. Think it's kind of bad for him to watch billions of lives, including his Jedi colleagues suffer and die, but what can I say? It's a good point.

About Sidious not knowing much about the Force, we just don't know how much he knows, but I have a feeling that it's a great deal. After all, I wouldn't take someone who managed to rule the galaxy with an iron fist, clean 99.9% of the Jedi from existence, and more, very lightly. An opinion on both sides on that, though, so it can't be solved until Episode III. I, however, HIGHLY disagree on how we have seen Sidious' full potential, but not Yoda's. We haven't seen either until Episode III, and you don't give Sidious a chance to prove himself because the only screen time he has to do something is in the end of ROTJ, and he only needed to use one power.

But if ANYONE says that Vader, Tyranus, or especially Maul can take down Yoda, you're really messed up. Sidious is clearly more powerful than all three of them. Well, Vader can be argued some, but if Tyranus were more powerful, he would have killed Sidious and become Master because that's the way he is, and in the novel it says that he's inferior to him. As for Maul, who else could have taught him the lightsaber but Sidious?

So there you go. One final thing: if you count EU, then Sidious is ridiculously powerful. The Force Storms are like nukes, he can transfer his soul into a young clone body, and he does use a lightsaber. In the Thrawn trilogy, it says that he was mind-controlling the entire Imperial fleet AND worrying about Luke and Vader at the same time. After he "died" in the bottomless pit, the Imperials lost their "skills" and the battle was lost.

Anything else to argue? I welcome productive/positive criticism or arguement points. I love this thread. Except maybe that I'm the only one going for Sidious, but still.

I like this thread too, its nice to have something to talk about every once in a while.

Hmmmm, how to respond? Okay, firstly I have read any of the EU universer Thrawn Trilogy, but by what your telling me, I really might need to pick it up. It sounds pretty good. Ok now, I think that if the emperor was able to do nuclear storms and transport his soul to other clones then what happend in ROTJ? Vader took him out. I think that if he has such a large arsenal of power why was it that all he could do is use lightning. I really need to get the other books you were talking about, because even the fact that he was thrown in a bottomless pit say something about him to me. True it wasn't yoda who did it, but Yoda was Lukes master, and even when dying Yoda still had luke by centuries of experience and knowledge of the force. From what I am hearing you say, the emperor had raw power, he didnt have much of anything that was refined enough to defend himself when it came to being in a battle with Luke and Vader.

I need to stop, lol. We could go on with this debate for a long time. Honestly though, you are right, We won't be able to see who truly is the most powerful Force user until Episode 3 comes along. Soooo, we will just have to see. I still think Yoda though, lol.

SharaFett
07-07-2002, 11:40 PM
nah they were just getting old :P