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View Full Version : The Definitive Old Trilogy (*Spoilers*)


Jedi_Monk
06-30-2002, 03:12 AM
Okay, we've all heard the rumor that once Episode III is released on DVD, the OT will be soon to follow suit (probably in a $200 boxed set with the Prequels :p). Anyway, we know Lucas likes to tinker, and I personally hope he does because the SEs (which are almost positively the version that will be released) are flawed. Here are some of the things I think should be changed in the OT to improve continuity:

A New Hope -
1 - Addition of the Imperial March to ANH; I've heard that this is a very likely change to take place. It was William's idea to help the movies flow better melodically, and if Lucas does go back to the OT, this will probably happen.

2 - Addition of the Biggs Darklighter on Tatooine scenes. Why? Because they're cut scenes that many know about but few have seen. It would improve the character development of Luke, give more depth to his life on Tatooine and give us a look at Anchorhead and Beggar's Canyon. It would also add more drama to Biggs' death in the battle of Yavin. They added in the scene where Luke and Biggs meet on Yavin IV before the battle, but this scene makes little sense, I think, without the Tatooine sequence.

3 - Removal of the pool of blood around Ponda Baba's dismembered arm. Lucas has admitted that this was a mistake since lightsabers cauterize wounds. So why not go back and change it? They have the technology, and the oversight of the addition of blood hurts continuity.

4 - Political correctness be damned! Return the Greedo scene as it was! No Greedo firing first crap, no Han jerking in a very fakey way. Han was a badass who was... slightly... softened by his feelings toward Princess Leia. It does serious damage to Han's character.

5 - Improvement of the Jabba CGI. They made a better Jabba for TPM. Again, it would help continuity because Jabba was huge in TPM, tiny in ANH and huge again in RotJ. Are we to believe he went on a diet somewhere between the Trilogies and had given up on it again by RotJ? The CGI technology has advanced since the ANH:SE, utilize it.

6 - Fix Obi-Wan's flickering lightsaber in the Death Star duel.

7 - Again, CG effects have improved greatly since the ANH:SE; improve the CG in the dogfight above the Death Star.

The Empire Strikes Back -
1 - Better integration of the Wampa into the cave scene. It's obvious that Luke is on one soundstage in 1979 and the Wampa is on another 18 years later. Or just remove the new Wampa scenes all together; I don't think they'll be missed, and for me, they were the worst addition to the ESB:SE.

2 - For continuity's sake, I hope that Temuera Morrison (Jango Fett) is re-recording Boba's lines in ESB. And if the Stormtroopers are indeed clones (which I think likely), I hope he's voicing over all their lines in the OT, as well.

Return of the Jedi -
1 - The CG is flawed and dated in all of the SEs and, again, I think their improvement is desperately needed. In the RotJ:SE, this particularly means Sy Snootles and that Yuzzuh-thing.

2 - The removal of the batsaber in the fight above the Pit of Carcoon. Have Luke decapitating and bisecting left and right as we've seen the other Jedi doing in the Prequels. Again, it's vital to continuity, I feel.

Those are all the changes I can think of for now... if anyone else has anything to add, please do.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Vestril
06-30-2002, 03:23 AM
2 - For continuity's sake, I hope that Temuera Morrison (Jango Fett) is re-recording Boba's lines in ESB. And if the Stormtroopers are indeed clones (which I think likely), I hope he's voicing over all their lines in the OT, as well.

Why would they have the same accents? First off it is not at all clear that Stormtroopers are clones. Say what you will, but it's much more logical for them to be regular people, using elite clones to just stand around and intimidate people would me a major waste of resources. Secondly, even if they were clones, they wouldn't have his accent, especially after 20 years...:rolleyes:. Lastly, Boba Fetts accent would change as he got older and was around other people with different accents, that's just how it goes.

I also don't think that Greedo shooting first does any real damage to the character of Han Solo...I mean if it were that way from the beginning, you wouldn't like Han less. In fact I would be willing to bet that if originally Greedo had shot first, you would be up in arms about how damaging it was to Han's character to make him shoot first. I can just imagine it: 'before you could understand why he would become a rebel--now he's just a cold-blooded killer!!!!.'

I liked it better the original way, personally, but that's what my pre-special edition copies are for ;) Now I just need a way to transfer them to DVD...

Anyway, I like most of your ideas, a little touching up wouldn't hurt. Or Lucas could be kind enough to take it back to square one and undo all of the SE stuff...that would be cool too. I personally prefer the Original OT for one major reason: the horrible musical scene in Jabba's Palace. It was fine before...now it makes hit the fast forward button...

Jedi_Monk
06-30-2002, 03:31 AM
Lastly, Boba Fetts accent would change as he got older and was around other people with different accents, that's just how it goes.
I don't know about Boba's accent--and personally, I didn't notice a very distinct one in AotC, either. However, just the voices of Jango Fett and Boba Fett are dissimilar which doesn't make sence since Boba's a pure clone of Jango.

I mean if it were that way from the beginning, you wouldn't like Han less. In fact I would be willing to bet that if originally Greedo had shot first, you would be up in arms about how damaging it was to Han's character to make him shoot first.
Alright, maybe "damages" is the wrong word. A more apt description would be "changes". That's the point, it changes Han's character--that little change completely changes him, and I, for one, don't like it. You don't like it. Most people don't like it. So why not change it? Also, the redone scene does do damage to Greedo's character. Instead of being a character who waited too long and gloated too much, he's an idiot who couldn't hit someone at point-blank range!

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Divine Spirit
06-30-2002, 03:44 AM
i totally hate this idea of changing the film

the film is the film. its a classic! u cant just change it and alter it like i get rid of my typos! everything in ANH makes it ANH and if one of those things changes then its not ANH. i partially accept special editions- although they tamper with the classics, they at least have to carry around the 'Special Edition' after their names so we know whats been done to the film. i would also hate the idea of 'A New Hope: Special Edition: Edition 2'

6 - Fix Obi-Wan's flickering lightsaber in the Death Star duel.

wasnt it meant to flicker? i hated that fight anyway!

2 - The removal of the batsaber in the fight above the Pit of Carcoon.

can u explain this please? i must have missed this aspect of the scene

kaibigan
06-30-2002, 03:47 AM
I doubt stormtroopers are clonetroopers or some might still be but alot are regular people. For proof I offer you to go look up the planet Carida
It is the Stormtrooper training planet
Similiar to what Paris Island would be to USA.

As for Boba Fett sounding like Jango Fett. As you know Boba Fett only talks when he has the helmet on. And if you think about what that armor has been through. Alos it definately sounds like it is being masked by some vocoder. So maybe over time and multiple damages and also the vocoder, his voice would not sound or would sound different?

Yes Jabba needs to be fixed. But I think they found a work around in one of the books. Hutts do something like Molt. It was mentioned the Han Solo Trilogy. It makes them smaller every efw years or something like that. I dont get it but yes he should be changed because not everyone reads those books.

Kaito Fett

PS Good ideas though mate

Vestril
06-30-2002, 03:59 AM
I don't know about Boba's accent--and personally, I didn't notice a very distinct one in AotC, either. However, just the voices of Jango Fett and Boba Fett are dissimilar which doesn't make sence since Boba's a pure clone of Jango.

You do not 'inherit' an accent, it is not a genetic trait. Boba wouldn't sound exactly like Jango because his accent has been influenced by the Kaminoans.

I doubt stormtroopers are clonetroopers or some might still be but alot are regular people. For proof I offer you to go look up the planet Carida
It is the Stormtrooper training planet
Similiar to what Paris Island would be to USA.

Good thinking but EU really doesn't have any bearing on the movies, so it doesn't really work in this particular debate (especially since Monk is so derisive of most EU).

shidobu
06-30-2002, 06:20 AM
quote:
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quote:
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2 - The removal of the batsaber in the fight above the Pit of Carcoon.
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can u explain this please? i must have missed this aspect of the scene
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In ROTJ, whenever Luke hits someone with his lightsaber in the skiff battle, they fly off as though he hit them with a baseball bat, [or a cricket bat for those of you in the UK]

Lime-Light
06-30-2002, 06:27 AM
All of these cgi changes wil never happen. It took 4 years for them to put the changes into ANH, in total. I dont htink they would go and redo everything they have redone, jut becase you dont find it adequate after all the amazine effects in the prequals. The OT is what it is.

Divine Spirit
06-30-2002, 06:33 AM
Originally posted by shidobu
[or a cricket bat for those of you in the UK]

lol :rofl:

thanks!

Kyth'emos
06-30-2002, 06:35 AM
yeah that was really gay and I have always hated that seen because of it.

Jedi_Monk
06-30-2002, 08:20 AM
All of these cgi changes wil never happen. It took 4 years for them to put the changes into ANH, in total. I dont htink they would go and redo everything they have redone, jut becase you dont find it adequate after all the amazine effects in the prequals.
The Star Wars saga is Lucas' magnum opus, and I don't think he'll leave it less than perfect in his eyes when he has the technology to do it. He has ILM based in his house, everyone who works there obeys him, if he told a branch of them to tinker with this scene, add something to that scene, they'd do it. And if he likes it, he'll send it off to Fox Home Entertainment and say "Hey, I fixed this up, could you run it out?" and they'd do it in a split second because SW is the biggest franchise they've got.

Kurgan
06-30-2002, 06:34 PM
Personally, I really really (with sugar on top) hope that when the Classic SW Trilogy is officially released on DVD, they go all out with the features and provide us with the ORIGINAL theatrical cuts of the films, alongside the souped-up special editions. I still like the songs that were cut from ROTJ for example (ewok celebration and rebo band for example) and Greedo shooting first, etc. I love the SE too, and if George has his way, he'll add Jar Jar and Padme references to the old films. I just want to be able to see the original alongside for nostalgia purposes and to compare. It's not like it'd be hard to do or anything... ; )

Now a few comments of my own:


2 - Addition of the Biggs Darklighter on Tatooine scenes. Why? Because they're cut scenes that many know about but few have seen. It would improve the character development of Luke, give more depth to his life on Tatooine and give us a look at Anchorhead and Beggar's Canyon. It would also add more drama to Biggs' death in the battle of Yavin. They added in the scene where Luke and Biggs meet on Yavin IV before the battle, but this scene makes little sense, I think, without the Tatooine sequence.

Yeah, you can download these off the 'net. IIRC on the Star Wars: Behind the Magic disc you can view them, but the quality could be a LOT better. Even if they don't add those scenes where they would belong in the film, they should have them as deleted scenes you can view, that goes for the surviving scenes for all the movies. If they did add them into the films though, they'd probably need to spice them up with digital effects so they'd look right though. The reason they were left out of the theatrical releases is probably because it was more "down-time" without action at the beginning and the characters are less important to the story.


3 - Removal of the pool of blood around Ponda Baba's dismembered arm. Lucas has admitted that this was a mistake since lightsabers cauterize wounds. So why not go back and change it? They have the technology, and the oversight of the addition of blood hurts continuity.


That makes no sense. Watch Episode I, Maul BLEEDS when he gets cut in half. If Ponda Baba's bleeding "broke" continuity, then
I guess George either changed his mind, is incompetent, a liar, or has a short memory. ; ) So there's no logical reason to remove it.


4 - Political correctness be damned! Return the Greedo scene as it was! No Greedo firing first crap, no Han jerking in a very fakey way. Han was a badass who was... slightly... softened by his feelings toward Princess Leia. It does serious damage to Han's character.


I agree. Why is it wrong for Han to defend himself from a guy who was likely going to kill him in the next few seconds anyway? Besides, there's far more carnage in the movie that wasn't toned down in any way. ; p


5 - Improvement of the Jabba CGI. They made a better Jabba for TPM. Again, it would help continuity because Jabba was huge in TPM, tiny in ANH and huge again in RotJ. Are we to believe he went on a diet somewhere between the Trilogies and had given up on it again by RotJ? The CGI technology has advanced since the ANH:SE, utilize it.


I always figured they were trying to show a younger, thinner Jabba, which I would buy, considering the time that passes between ANH and ROTJ. Yet, they screwed it up by making him fat and old looking in TPM. Then again maybe he went on a diet... Probably though they just couldn't resist hyping up the CGI effects to make it look "more like the real thing."



6 - Fix Obi-Wan's flickering lightsaber in the Death Star duel.


Yes, and Vader's "white" saber right after the duel. I never understood why they failed to fix that... it's so incredibly minor and looks goofy.


The Empire Strikes Back -
1 - Better integration of the Wampa into the cave scene. It's obvious that Luke is on one soundstage in 1979 and the Wampa is on another 18 years later. Or just remove the new Wampa scenes all together; I don't think they'll be missed, and for me, they were the worst addition to the ESB:SE.


Actually I thought it enhanced the scene. In the first one the monster was "implied" and some people might find that more compelling. For me, it was scarier because the monster felt like it was right next to him when he got out of there and it appeared to just get angrier when he cut off its arm, hence why you believe him when he runs out of there like the devil himself was after him.

Then again, when you think about it, most of the CGI SE added scenes jar you away from the original footage, since they stand out, despite the excellent job ILM and GL did trying to integrate them smoothly.


2 - For continuity's sake, I hope that Temuera Morrison (Jango Fett) is re-recording Boba's lines in ESB. And if the Stormtroopers are indeed clones (which I think likely), I hope he's voicing over all their lines in the OT, as well.


There's a lot of reasons why this would be unnecessary. We never hear Jango Fett talk with his helmet on. The helmet obviously changes his voice. Note how everyone's voice sounds different when they have helmets on (ANH) and people like Bousshe (Leia's disguise) and Vader (ROTJ) sound totally different outside their helmets than in. So it's really no big deal. When you watched AOTC, did you think the Clone Troopers that talked sounded exactly like Jango Fett outside his outfit? Heck, we don't even know if the classic trilogy guys, even if they are clones, are based on Jango Fett. They could just as easily be based on somebody else, or groups of people, not just one.

And you could always say the Stormtroopers in the classic trilogy, even if they are all clones of Jango, could be modified in all that time.


Return of the Jedi -
1 - The CG is flawed and dated in all of the SEs and, again, I think their improvement is desperately needed. In the RotJ:SE, this particularly means Sy Snootles and that Yuzzuh-thing.


I agree somewhat, I hated the "new look" of Sy Snootles. A bit too cartoony for my taste (hurt the mood of the "scariness" of Jabba's Palace).


2 - The removal of the batsaber in the fight above the Pit of Carcoon. Have Luke decapitating and bisecting left and right as we've seen the other Jedi doing in the Prequels. Again, it's vital to continuity, I feel.

That might be kind of cool actually, but not absolutely necessary.

If you want another change, how about editing the ROTJ battle to add more carnage (bodies lying around to show deaths) and have the Ewok Arows not penetrating Trooper armor (but hitting the body-glove joints instead) <--- see discussion on Stormtrooper armor elsewhere on the forums. ; )

Again, I don't care what Lucas does to the Classic Trilogy and I'd love to see any new changes he wants to make, so long as I can have the original films on DVD for side-by-side comparisons! I'll be rather disappointed if we're not given that option...

BCanr2d2
06-30-2002, 08:07 PM
The whole Clone Troopers are Storm Troopers thing comes from an article released about 20 years ago, in which GL states that the Stormies are clones.

I think he might have changed his mind on that one though, as we will no doubt see the flaw in the Clone Troopers that leads to the introduction of the Stormies, helmet hitters and all.....

Or maybe he didn't, since we see Jango hit his head on Slave I, just like the Stormie in ANH

technobot
06-30-2002, 11:15 PM
I have to agree with the Han Solo - Greedo confrontation, let's go back to the original trilogy idea...

The whole point (in the OT) is that Han Solo is a bad ass, for God's sake he's a smuggler! A SPICE smuggler, which (might) be a politically correct way of saying a sometime drug runner. Point is, he's certainly no saint at that period, and having him shoot Greedo first made TOTAL sense because A) he's a man of action and B) he knew Greedo was there to kill him, and it added to his character by having him shoot first. He's not exactly an evil man, but he's sitting across from this bounty hunter who has just told him he's going to enjoy killing him, and Han takes the initiative and ends it before it gets messy (for him).