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View Full Version : Luke Skywalker is a jedi? Hell no!!!


Throno-Denkai
07-02-2002, 12:09 PM
He is not a jedi, he is just a guy with his fathers lightsaber. He cant be a jedi with two or three month training. Lets look at Anakin Skywalker, in episode 2, he was trained like 10 years and he wasnt still enough for an actual mission, using the force or controlling his feelings. The lesson Luke got from Obi-wan was like couple of hours and it was only about reflecting blasts, not about force or crap. Yodas lesson was about force but it was for like couple of days and in the end, Luke still wasnt able to move his X-Fighter. He faced with Vader, his ass got kicked, he saved Han and returned to Yodas swamp, but Yoda died. What now? Funny part is he did beat Vader at the second time, probably George Lucas wasnt that Star Wars smart at that time. Well, Palpatine beat Luke with his lightning force, if Luke was strong, he could stand to that lightning. The one who killed Palpatine was Vader but he also got hurt from lightning when he grabbed Palpatine. Also, after he beat Vader, he threw his lightsaber, a jedi never should throw his lightsaber away, because his all life is that lightsaber. Never mind of this, what am i trying to say is that Luke cannot be a jedi with a weak training like this. What do you think, i want to see what others say, its bs, its right whatever, just say what do you think about Luke being a jedi?

obi
07-02-2002, 12:12 PM
Luke had a few years to train to be a Jedi, and the force was already very strong with him.

Hey, Kyle Katarn found a lightsaber in the closet, and he was suddenly a jedi!!!

Throno-Denkai
07-02-2002, 12:20 PM
But still, other Jedis were trained more than him. Force was strong in him but he didnt know how to use it smartly and strongly, even if he did, he could join to the dark side like his father.

obi
07-02-2002, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by Throno-Denkai
, he could join to the dark side like his father.

he did join the dark side like his father. In the EU anways. (Dark Horse Comics : Dark Empire)

It's really good comics. Check it out if you haven't already.

Throno-Denkai
07-02-2002, 12:28 PM
Hmm, i ll check it out, there are plenty SW comcis that talks about after episode 6. Anakin had a strong dark force inside him, he didnt choose to be in the dark side, his force made him. What i believe is if you have a dark force or light force inside you, you cant change that, what i really think is, he really did join dark force.

HellFyre69
07-02-2002, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13


he did join the dark side like his father. In the EU anways. (Dark Horse Comics : Dark Empire)

It's really good comics. Check it out if you haven't already.

Yeah but he came out from the DARK SIDE! AH! unlike he's father, he did just before he ws going to die. But luke.. nope.. he came out alive, and learned the experience of the dark side

Zindell
07-02-2002, 12:28 PM
I had to say it... th EU is canon.

although I truly don't believe it. I just said it before someone else would. Luke was a jedi in my books.

Arkum
07-02-2002, 12:37 PM
Give it a break, just sit back and relax and enjoy th movie is what i say. :D

Jedi_Monk
07-02-2002, 12:55 PM
How did the very first Force-user learn how to harness the Force? The Force guides them itself when no other guidence is present. If the Force wants him to be a Jedi, he's a Jedi. BTW, the only reason Luke was owned by Palpatine's lightning is because he threw away his lightsaber to make a point to his daddy. Lightsabers absorb Force lightning, afterall ;)

One thing I will say, though... the Luke Skywalker of the EU is no Jedi.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

wily888
07-02-2002, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by Arkum
Give it a break, just sit back and relax and enjoy th movie is what i say. :D

I think that Arkum has it all figured out.

Kyth'emos
07-02-2002, 12:59 PM
He won against a sith lord, and Yoda said that once he faced Vader he would be a Jedi and he did, when the greatest jedi ever says you are a Jedi you usually are.

Darth Joka'ar
07-02-2002, 01:03 PM
Well, the Jedi Order is diferent in Luke Generation.

Luke Skywalker Generation
-Anybody with any age can be train as a Jedi
-They can get married and have childrens

Obi-Wan Kenobi Generation
-Seems like only take infant as a student
-Jedi can know no LOVE


Still, I love both New Jedi Order & Old Jedi Order

Jedi_Monk
07-02-2002, 01:03 PM
It wasn't defeating a Sith Lord that made him a Jedi... he only did that by turning to the Dark Side, himself. What made him a Jedi was coming back to the Light. Yoda said "If once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny..." well, Luke was on the Dark Path for much of RotJ, and yet he was able to break away, showing his mettle.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

obi
07-02-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk
It wasn't defeating a Sith Lord that made him a Jedi... he only did that by turning to the Dark Side, himself. What made him a Jedi was coming back to the Light. Yoda said "If once you start down the Dark Path, forever will it dominate your destiny..." well, Luke was on the Dark Path for much of RotJ, and yet he was able to break away, showing his mettle.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

well said, bro.

I don't think Luke was goin down the dark side in ROTJ, though. he was during the saber fight, I'll give you that. But he did manage to calm himself by throwing down his saber. The reason that Luke had to fight Vader to become a jedi is that he was somewhat afraid of what his father had become, and had to overcome it. He also didn't want to dedicate himself too much so that he would have to face his father. He overcame that as well.

Pedantic
07-02-2002, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Kyth'emos
He won against a sith lord, and Yoda said that once he faced Vader he would be a Jedi and he did, when the greatest jedi ever says you are a Jedi you usually are.

Well, that just about sums it up. With canonical evidence, no less. ;) :D

Shadow Angel
07-02-2002, 01:13 PM
A lot of people might disagree with me, but I think Luke is awesome Jedi material. I mean, yeah, he whines, but so does Anakin (especially in Episode I.) Any other Jedi with such little training as Luke wouldn't even be able to swing a lightsaber without cutting himself in half (I'm exaggerating, but you get the idea.) In addition, he's about 20 when he starts training, while old Jedi start at birth. Give him 10 years of training and you've got another Yoda on your hands (I'm not thinking of EU here, I don't have enough info about Luke on that.) So, yeah, he's not tough in ROTJ, but I think you guys need to cut him some slack and give him credit for being such a fast learner. Anyone agree with me here?

Darth Joka'ar
07-02-2002, 01:18 PM
Oh maybe Vader has came to his sense and like fighting him "easily" coz Luke is his own son.Maybe not.

-[MotU]-Lyger|=-
07-02-2002, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Luke had a few years to train to be a Jedi, and the force was already very strong with him.

Hey, Kyle Katarn found a lightsaber in the closet, and he was suddenly a jedi!!!

true true, so true

Vestril
07-02-2002, 02:15 PM
Luke was on the Dark Path for much of RotJ, and yet he was able to break away, showing his mettle.

Just because he was wearing black doesn't mean he was a bad guy, even in George Lucas's world.

Throno-Denkai
07-02-2002, 02:43 PM
The best jedis I ever saw are Qui-gon and obi-wan. They know what are they doing, they dont let their feelings take them over and make them suffer, what ever happens, they move on and they dont give up. I believe this also includes the every member of old jedi council but we didnt actually saw them in action, so i say Qui-gon and Obi-wan. Luke also makes the right choices alot of times but his feelings can take over him really easily. In episode 5, he knew his friends were the bait but he cut his training for them and just went right into the trap. It didnt change anything for his friends, they could get away by themselves, but it changed alot for Luke. He learned that Vader was his father, which makes it hard to face with him again and not to mention that he lost his hand. Thats not jedi habit man!

-[MotU]-Lyger|=-
07-02-2002, 02:45 PM
Luke Skywalker is a Jedi, if not in Return of the Jedi then now he is. or in anyother book/movie/game after return of the jedi

Throno-Denkai
07-02-2002, 02:49 PM
Well, i am talking about episodes 4, 5 and 6. I dont give a damn after 6 but he is a padawn (maybe not even that) in 4,5 and 6.

Shadow Angel
07-02-2002, 02:49 PM
And if Luke weren't a Jedi, then there wouldn't even be a "Return of the Jedi." It would say something like, "Return of the Jedi Wannabe." Hey, that's the invincibility code in JKI!

Throno-Denkai
07-02-2002, 02:51 PM
I would call it "Return Of The Fag"

Shadow Angel
07-02-2002, 02:55 PM
......

Well, like I said, he's done pretty good considering the limited training he has. I still think you should give him a break. But, I don't really care too much. He's not my favorite character.

SaberPro
07-02-2002, 03:39 PM
"You must confront Vader. Then and only then a Jedi you will be"

So I guess he is a Jedi

Yoda's words > Throno Denkai's (no offense hehe)

JaseP
07-02-2002, 03:51 PM
Palpatine also calls him a Jedi.

"You've failed your highness. I'm a Jedi,... Like my father before me..."

"... So be it,... JEDI!!!"

Darth Groovy
07-02-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
Luke had a few years to train to be a Jedi, and the force was already very strong with him.

Hey, Kyle Katarn found a lightsaber in the closet, and he was suddenly a jedi!!!

I found my lightsaber at Kaybee toys for $10 and I was sure I was a Jedi until someone told me that Jedi can't use red sabers so there is my life story!

Pada-Wan
07-02-2002, 05:35 PM
"One thing I will say, though... the Luke Skywalker of the EU is no Jedi."


y not?

-[MotU]-Lyger|=-
07-02-2002, 06:06 PM
Originally posted by Throno-Denkai
He is not a jedi, he is just a guy with his fathers lightsaber. He cant be a jedi with two or three month training. Lets look at Anakin Skywalker, in episode 2, he was trained like 10 years and he wasnt still enough for an actual mission, using the force or controlling his feelings. The lesson Luke got from Obi-wan was like couple of hours and it was only about reflecting blasts, not about force or crap. Yodas lesson was about force but it was for like couple of days and in the end, Luke still wasnt able to move his X-Fighter. He faced with Vader, his ass got kicked, he saved Han and returned to Yodas swamp, but Yoda died. What now? Funny part is he did beat Vader at the second time, probably George Lucas wasnt that Star Wars smart at that time. Well, Palpatine beat Luke with his lightning force, if Luke was strong, he could stand to that lightning. The one who killed Palpatine was Vader but he also got hurt from lightning when he grabbed Palpatine. Also, after he beat Vader, he threw his lightsaber, a jedi never should throw his lightsaber away, because his all life is that lightsaber. Never mind of this, what am i trying to say is that Luke cannot be a jedi with a weak training like this. What do you think, i want to see what others say, its bs, its right whatever, just say what do you think about Luke being a jedi?


aye aye + anakin is a slow learner :-p

CapNColostomy
07-02-2002, 06:18 PM
There's always somebody around here ready to discredit EU this or that. That amuses me since tons of EU material makes it's way into Fat-Boy's (Lucas's nickname from me) movies. Take Coruscant for example. It's smeared all over the new movies like a bad rash. Where did it come from? EU. I could go on to mention swoop bikes, names that are given to otherwise unknown and barley seen characters, but there's no need. It should only take a minute or two for someone to post a "as far as SW goes, EU is canon. There's only one man in my book" type reply.

Yeah, only one man. Right. One man that pays other people to draw, animate, build models, completely think up on their own characters, write music, while he sits back and counts his money (and writes $#!+ for movies.)

"Lucas even said himself he doesn't give a hoot what EU says." Well, when he sells the rights to his characters to a publishing company and author, and the publisher and author start making money from his property, you can rest assured he gives a hoot. He wants his piece of the action. He certainly seems to give a hoot when he wants to steal an idea or two from EU.

If you bought a computer from Gateway, and put alot of things into your computer, games, music, software, hardware upgrades etc, and you came home one day to find Billy Gates erasing all your data, and about to take a screwdriver to your tower to take out your upgraded hardware, because it didn't fit into the scope of his "original vision" of your machine you'd be pissed. Might I add you'd be highly pissed. That's how I get everytime I read that Fat-Boy took another crap on EU.

Hell, I like EU BETTER than the movies anyway. The movies have so many holes in them both visually and story wise you could make a flute out of them. I mainly use the movies as a visual referance anymore. I still like them, and watch them fairly regularly and will continue to do so. But I won't base what I like about Star Wars on what Fat Boy wants to butcher and or call canon. Whatever the hell "canon's" supposed to mean. I like it all, so screw you Fat Boy!

CapNColostomy
07-02-2002, 06:22 PM
Oh yeah, and Luke IS a jedi. Even Fat Boy would agree to that I think.

Lunatic Jedi
07-02-2002, 06:54 PM
Woah, calm down, CapN.

*Lunatic injects CapN with some of the valium he keeps on hand. As CC dozes off, Lunatic flashes a grin and runs off, dropping a card containing his opinion on the discussion as he does.*

"Its true, Luke was a whiny moisture farmer from some backwater puddlestone of a planet, and he'd had very little training, and he was probably also quite disturbed by the mental anguish of knowing his father was a horrible, horrible... thingy... CUT HIM SOME SLACK BECAUSE IF IT WASN'T FOR HIM THE JEDI NEVER WOULD HAVE MADE A COMEBACK AFTER THE PURGE! :mad:

Darth Groovy
07-02-2002, 08:02 PM
Originally posted by CapNColostomy
There's always somebody around here ready to discredit EU this or that. That amuses me since tons of EU material makes it's way into Fat-Boy's (Lucas's nickname from me) movies. Take Coruscant for example. It's smeared all over the new movies like a bad rash. Where did it come from? EU. I could go on to mention swoop bikes, names that are given to otherwise unknown and barley seen characters, but there's no need. It should only take a minute or two for someone to post a "as far as SW goes, EU is canon. There's only one man in my book" type reply.

Yeah, only one man. Right. One man that pays other people to draw, animate, build models, completely think up on their own characters, write music, while he sits back and counts his money (and writes $#!+ for movies.)

"Lucas even said himself he doesn't give a hoot what EU says." Well, when he sells the rights to his characters to a publishing company and author, and the publisher and author start making money from his property, you can rest assured he gives a hoot. He wants his piece of the action. He certainly seems to give a hoot when he wants to steal an idea or two from EU.

If you bought a computer from Gateway, and put alot of things into your computer, games, music, software, hardware upgrades etc, and you came home one day to find Billy Gates erasing all your data, and about to take a screwdriver to your tower to take out your upgraded hardware, because it didn't fit into the scope of his "original vision" of your machine you'd be pissed. Might I add you'd be highly pissed. That's how I get everytime I read that Fat-Boy took another crap on EU.

Hell, I like EU BETTER than the movies anyway. The movies have so many holes in them both visually and story wise you could make a flute out of them. I mainly use the movies as a visual referance anymore. I still like them, and watch them fairly regularly and will continue to do so. But I won't base what I like about Star Wars on what Fat Boy wants to butcher and or call canon. Whatever the hell "canon's" supposed to mean. I like it all, so screw you Fat Boy!

Actually Coruscant was mentioned in the novelizations of the original trilogy being episodes IV through VI, so read them and weep.

Jedi_Monk
07-03-2002, 03:01 AM
y not?
Let's just say... no Prequel-era Jedi would be unable to use the Force just because he had a little headache. Luke also got married (big no-no in the true Jedi Order), built his Jedi "Academy" (my eyes are rolling, now) in a Temple that was actually posessed by the spirit of a Dark Lord of the Sith (way to pay attention to your surroundings, Lukey-boy) and about 50% of his students turn to the Dark Side. Oh... and he can't use the Force to his full potential because he's afraid it will make him turn to the Dark Side (Fear leads to anger! Anger leads to hate! Hate leads... to suffering...). He also turned the Jedi Order into something little better than a military militia.

Hell, I like EU BETTER than the movies anyway.
Then revealed, your opinion is! Corrupted by the EU have you become! The Dark Side I feel in you! :syoda:

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

CapNColostomy
07-03-2002, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by darthgroovyii


Actually Coruscant was mentioned in the novelizations of the original trilogy being episodes IV through VI, so read them and weep.

Even if that were true, which I know it is NOT, (Coruscant first appeared in the Heir to the Empire trilogy by Tim Zahn) it would only go further to prove my point since Fat Boy didn't write ANY of the novels for IV-VI. Read THAT and weep, sucka. Coruscant wasn't mentioned in any OT novel until Fat Boy came out with that sorry ass ROTJ Special Edition and the novels that accompanied them.

JangoFett41
07-03-2002, 03:35 AM
IMHO I think Luke is a Jedi initiate. Remeber, that the force is pretty weak with everyone in the sequels cus they lost touch over time. I think he bested Vader only becuase he was old handicapped and mostly machine.

Vestril
07-03-2002, 06:03 AM
Even if that were true, which I know it is NOT, (Coruscant first appeared in the Heir to the Empire trilogy by Tim Zahn) it would only go further to prove my point since Fat Boy didn't write ANY of the novels for IV-VI. Read THAT and weep, sucka. Coruscant wasn't mentioned in any OT novel until Fat Boy came out with that sorry ass ROTJ Special Edition and the novels that accompanied them.

Well actually Lucas told Zahn to create Coruscant, I believe he even gave him a choice of several names.

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 06:16 AM
This link is from the official Star Wars site and should settle everything.

http://www.starwars.com/eu/feature/20000807/index.html

It's about the creation of Coruscant. Yes, it existed in the first drafts of Star Wars as an un-named capital world, but Lucas never got around to doing anything with it. Then Timothy Zahn took it upon his hands to name it Coruscant and develop the planet more.

As for the EU/movie debate, I take the films over the EU, but I like them both. Both have its flaws and holes.

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 06:32 AM
This is a pretty good picture of future Luke Skywalker, Jedi MASTA'. Hmm, darn, it didn't work. I guess I'll just link it.

http://www.starwars.com/eu/feature/20000405/index_1.html

Kent H
07-03-2002, 10:31 AM
CapNColostomy,

Preach it! Timothy Zahn and Micheal Stackpole's works are a hell of a lot better than the movies, and actually do something to flesh out the universe. And I'll even commit the ultimate blasphemy here: I LIKE THE JEDI ACADEMY TRILOGY! I haven't read the other KJA EU books though.

obi
07-03-2002, 10:38 AM
Favorite EU book: I,Jedi.


Love it. It is awesome. I like the Jedi series too. It's just I have one problem: How could that small little dog thingy(What's his name?) use the force? I just think it's funny to see a dog(what is his species, as well??) force-push something, or do a force jump, or mind trick.

"You WILL bring me the kibbles-n-bits."

Kyth'emos
07-03-2002, 11:44 AM
Originally posted by JaseP
Palpatine also calls him a Jedi.

"You've failed your highness. I'm a Jedi,... Like my father before me..."

"... So be it,... JEDI!!!"


Well I thik Palpatine was mocking Luke not actually admitting he was a jedi, but still Yoda said if he faced Vader he would be a jedi, and he faced Vader so he IS a jedi.

Throno-Denkai
07-04-2002, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by Shadow Angel
This is a pretty good picture of future Luke Skywalker, Jedi MASTA'. Hmm, darn, it didn't work. I guess I'll just link it.

http://www.starwars.com/eu/feature/20000405/index_1.html

My ass looks better than that!:D

Kit fisto JK
07-04-2002, 04:12 AM
I dont look at my ass :D :D :D :D :rhett:

JangoFett41
07-04-2002, 05:20 AM
I don't think the question is was he a jedi, I think you should be asking how good of a Jedi or what his ranking was. My guess is he was just a Padawan. (compared to old republic standards) Vader really wasn't that much of a challenge. Think about a machine with asthma. That's pretty weak no matter how high the midchlorian count. However, I think Luke was good enough to take the trials at least. He probably wouldn't make it though. His training is so slim and inefficient. I don't care how many lightsabers he built.:D speaking of Luke's saber, damn that thing is gay! especially compared to the prequel sabers.

Oh and another thing does anyone else just hate the style of JO because it just doesn't seem to fit into the SW universe at all. everything looks like s***.

obi
07-04-2002, 05:27 AM
I think Luke was the rank of Jedi Knight. I think he was "more advanced" in the force, like his fath Anakin. That's why I think he was a knight by the end of ROTJ.

JangoFett41
07-04-2002, 05:30 AM
nope Anakin sucks compared to his Ep II counterpart and he was a padawan preparing for the trials (in a few years)

Darth Knight
07-04-2002, 05:37 AM
eu is intresting but you can't base everything off of it i don't know a lot of eu but i think there is more eu that was not in the movies then there was in the movies

Throno-Denkai
07-04-2002, 09:03 AM
New and old jedi conditions are different, lets take a look:

Before Vader

1- I dont have time for women, i must train
2- My friends are in danger but i cant save them, i am the only hope.
3- Dont try to make me angry, you cant.
4- Enemy is strong, we must watch enemies every moves, attack smartly and stick together.
5- Enemies Force is strong, i must be careful.
6- We are the protectors of the galaxy.


After Vader

1- Nothing is wrong with being a woman, sometimes you gotto relax.
2- My friends are in danger, i dont give a damn if I am the only hope, I am gonna save them.
3- You are making me angry, ill kick your ass!
4- Enemy is strong, but lets go for it and kick enemys ass. BANZAAAAAAI.
5- Enemies Force is strong but i can beat him.
6- We are the heroes of the galaxy.

Luke is on the After Vader part. You decide.

Kyth'emos
07-04-2002, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by JangoFett41
speaking of Luke's saber, damn that thing is gay! especially compared to the prequel sabers.

Are you freakin crazy ????? Luke's RotJ saber is the best damn saber period, besides Obi-Wans ANH saber, the prequal sabers suck, they are just sticks with a grip and a hole for the blade.

Shadow Angel
07-04-2002, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by Throno-Denkai
New and old jedi conditions are different, lets take a look:

Before Vader

1- I dont have time for women, i must train
2- My friends are in danger but i cant save them, i am the only hope.
3- Dont try to make me angry, you cant.
4- Enemy is strong, we must watch enemies every moves, attack smartly and stick together.
5- Enemies Force is strong, i must be careful.
6- We are the protectors of the galaxy.


After Vader

1- Nothing is wrong with being a woman, sometimes you gotto relax.
2- My friends are in danger, i dont give a damn if I am the only hope, I am gonna save them.
3- You are making me angry, ill kick your ass!
4- Enemy is strong, but lets go for it and kick enemys ass. BANZAAAAAAI.
5- Enemies Force is strong but i can beat him.
6- We are the heroes of the galaxy.

Luke is on the After Vader part. You decide.

Personally, I'd rather be on the "After Vader" section. Better to be a super-hero than a monk.

Twilite Zoner
07-04-2002, 01:29 PM
I hate to break it to you, but novelizations of movies are not generally written by the actual screen writers. Considering the lack of training that Luke had and the ability to corrupt the Emperor has, I think it makes him quite the Jedi that not only did he defeat Vader but resisted Palpy at the same time....

shidobu
07-04-2002, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Darth Knight
eu is intresting but you can't base everything off of it i don't know a lot of eu but i think there is more eu that was not in the movies then there was in the movies

EU is defined as things which are not contained within the movies.

JangoFett41
07-04-2002, 09:01 PM
I don't care about before and after Vader. Since all Jedi are extinct it doesn't mean the abilities required change as well. Just think alright? Anakin=Padawan one of the most advanced saber fighters. Darth Vader=half his body charred off by lava. Which version do you think will be stronger in saber battles? the padawan. therefore Luke < Padawan. if he's lucky he might be as powerful as a padawan. If even he was equal to a padawan he would need at least ten years training to be a Jedi Knight. Anakin was the chosen one and he needed more than 10 years.

Throno-Denkai
07-05-2002, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by JangoFett41
Darth Vader=half his body charred off by lava.

Sorry but his body got damaged in a saber duel with Obi-wan.

JangoFett41
07-05-2002, 02:40 AM
yeah and then he fell into a lava pit. That's like the biggest Ep III Spoiler there is.

XERXES
07-05-2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by obi-wan13


he did join the dark side like his father. In the EU anways. (Dark Horse Comics : Dark Empire)

It's really good comics. Check it out if you haven't already.

those comics rule...but if luke couldnt even lift his dang x-wing, or that walker in Dark Force Rising( in the end when they are on the katana...and the stormtroopers are invading the ship) then how the heck did luke manage to knock a dang at-at to the ground.