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View Full Version : TPM was better than AOTC


eben15
07-03-2002, 02:43 PM
I think, as a whole, TPM was a far better movie than AOTC.

1. Please don't attack me personally. If you disagree with me on a point, just tell me why.

2. TPM, had lots of really great moments. The opening scene in which Obi and Qui, first use their lightsabers, was excellent. You can actually see the smile on Obi's face, he was having fun. In episode II it looks as if he's reading from a script the whole movie, and he seems bored in most of the scenes. Then Qui, sticks his saber into the door and just starts melting it. That was great. They close the blast doors and he just starts going through those too. There is a scene in which the Emperor is talking to the trade fed. guys, he's in one of those blue hologram things, and Darth Maul, walks up behind him in the picture. You can not tell me that scene wasn't totally bad-ass. The big action scenes in AOTC too few and went on for too long. The chase scene in Coruscant for eg. The only scence that was really good, was the fight with Jango Fett. That totally rocked! but that was just on scene in two hours.
3. Cut out the last 20 mins of the movie and then ask yourself if it was any good. The last scene with the arena and tons of jedi and finally getting to see Yoda fight, was friggin great, but, it took almost two hours of very little happening for that to occur.
Also, I think the fight with Maul, was one the best fight scenes EVER, in any movie. Yoda vs Dooku, was cool, but just because it was finally getting to see Yoda fight after waiting 20 years. If you sit back and think about it objectively, you will see that all Yoda did was jump around. Iv'e heard people say that Maul won, because he punched Qui, and he wasn't expecting that. Well Qui, actually punches him first (a few mins earlier) and knocks him onto a platform. So Maul, just beat him as fairly as could be expected.
4. The acting has always been hammy, in any Star Wars, movie, but episode II, was the first time it was actually very annoying. Anikan couldn't act his way out of paper bag. Not that I think It was Hayden's fault. They totally changed the character it the second movie. If you watch TPM, you notice that at nine years old Anikan, seems very mature for his age. Padme, says he's a slave and he replies "I'm a person. My name is Anikan."
You can see the anger and the defiance, that will turn him to the dark side. In AOTC, all he does is whine, about stupid things, he complains about Obi-Wan, behind his back instead of discussing his feelings with his mentor. Part of the problem is that McGregor and Christenson, have absolutely zero on screen chemistry. The two actors don't play off each other well at all and that makes most of the dialog seem forced.
5. AOTC, seems to have made a lot less money than TPM.
The box office seems to be a good indicator of how the public feels about a movie, if I remember correctly, TPM, had a big opening weekend, and had very little drop-off the following weeks. AOTC, also opened big, but had a major drop off the next and following weeks. That means, word of mouth, was not so good. Its weird, but of the original trilogy, the one that made the most money (ROTJ) was the one hard-core fans hated the most, and the one that fans liked the most (ESB) ranks at the bottom of all five movies. Its interesting to see which way Lucas, will go with the next movie. If he pleases the fans, he seems to lose money, and if he angers the fans, he pleases the public and makes a ton of dough.
When I first saw TPM, I walked out of the theatre thinking about how great it was. I saw it twice and loved it both times. Then I heard what the fans were saying about how the movie sucked and that Jar-Jar was the anti-christ, and I started thinking they may have been right. Midichlorians?? WTF?? Lucas, has ruined the series. But, I came to realise that Jar-Jar, wasn't that annoying. You need a little comic relief in a movie. In AOTC there was none and thats one of the reasons it was boring. The midichlorians actually enhance the story if you think about it. They aren't the force, they simply help us communicate with the force.
Another thing you realise, when watching TPM is how well the emperor is written. All six movies go basically exactly where Sidious wants them to go. He manipulates things for decades, right in front of the noses of the most powerfull charactors, and gets away with it . Fantastic.
Ok, tell me why Im wrong. Just remember if a scene is in the last 20 mins of AOTC it doesn't count. I already said the last 20 mins were great, but unfortunatly 20 mins does not a movie make.
BTW. ESB is my favorite, now that Im in my late 20's, but when I was a kid I loved ROTJ. I think ESB was a little dark for kids, what do you think.

The Truthful Liar
07-03-2002, 02:45 PM
That's alot of points... (good nonetheless)

o.O

Alittle to late for a conclusion?

CapNColostomy
07-03-2002, 03:56 PM
It's a simple matter of taste. I like AOTC better. I also prefer tuna to jello. I don't need to validate those findings. They're just the way things are.

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 03:56 PM
I agree that Sidious was well-written.

Darth Groovy
07-03-2002, 04:16 PM
Finally........somebody besides me thought the Phantom Menace was most excellent! You hit on alot of good points, but left out a few. Don't forget when Obi-Wan twirls his lightsaber after wacking down the droids on Naboo. Less we not forget the podrace, and I have to say that TPM had one of the best duels in all the Star Wars saga thus so far. While The Empire Strikes Back will always be my favorite, TPM had a major impact on me, it stole my breath away, but more important it was a time to get exited about something in the Star Wars universe that I had not scene before.......I felt like a kid all over again! Jar Jar didn't bother me at all, in fact I thought he was much more fun to watch then the ewoks. He seemed very real and very well done for a CG alien. I have to disagree with you on the New Annakin though, I think Hayden was very good in AOTC and the part that hit me the most is when he confesses to Padme about what he did to the Tusken Raiders. I am so anxiously awaiting Episode 3. I do agree that AOTC was a bit slower than most of the movies, but that was to get into the "love story" part which is never all that great, but necessary to this particular chapter. In the book by R.A. Salvatore, there are alot of things going on that weren't in the movie, but I don't feel like it really had to be in there. TPM however in the book there were alot of things that could have gone in that forshadow Anakin's future that would have been brilliant, but I unsertand time limits....and most poeple including me can only sit so long at a time. I went back and saw TPM a total of 9 times and it was a thrill ride every single time!

Ben_Walker
07-03-2002, 04:36 PM
In AOTC I think the final lightsaber battle should've gone on abit longer [Yoda vs. Tyrranus] and I think that the best lightsaber battles from the entire series were the Luke vs. Vader ones. But in TPM, I think it was cool how Maul appeared in the hologram beside Sidious. The actors in AOTC seemed a little stiff, they could've given their roles a bit of life. But I always seem to think that the new films are pretty awesome.

Darth Groovy
07-03-2002, 04:54 PM
There was alot more humurous banter between Obi-wan and Anakin in the book. For example during the speeder chase with Zam Wessel, Anakin cracks more puns and Obi Wan delivers the punchlines more. Lucas decided to take alot of that out, but I would have put that more in. It hinted a little more that Anakin was a likeable person, and that he and Obi-Wan had more of a bond.

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 05:13 PM
TOTALLY 100% agree with the Maul Hologram scene,best!

I think AOTC also nice but I only hate the Anakin and Padme' love story.

I quited hated RotJ. The Battle of Endors sux. How can a primitive creature like Ewok and a few Rebel wipe out the entire Stormtroopers with ATSTs?Not realistic. Unless those Ewoks have about like a few 400-800 of them, that is ok, but during RotJ, less then 100.Just like children battle.

The Truthful Liar
07-03-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar
I quited hated RotJ. The Battle of Endors sux. How can a primitive creature like Ewok and a few Rebel wipe out the entire Stormtroopers with ATSTs?Not realistic. Unless those Ewoks have about like a few 400-800 of them, that is ok, but during RotJ, less then 100.Just like children battle.

You can't judge the entire RotJ movie just because of that one scene, there were many more scenes to be remembered and each one better than the prior.

Shadow Angel
07-03-2002, 05:24 PM
True, the Ewok scene was awful. They should have been a fierce, warrior-like race instead. I'm thinking those Iksars or whatever they're called from EverQuest.

ROTJ was my favorite film because of the awesome space battle and the climatic duel between Luke and Vader.

As for the Maul/Sidious hologram scene, I loved it when Maul appeared and seemed like twice as tall as Sidious! I bet Nute Gunray was about to piss in his pants when he saw that!
Very memorable scene. "Meet my apprentice, Darth Maul. He will find your lost ship."

Kaito Fett
07-03-2002, 06:21 PM
Obi Won's change is to be expected in my eyes. In TPM he was still a padawan and everything would still be fun for him. But now he is a jedi and has alot more tedious work to do I am sure. Also a lightsaber might be fun but I bet it gets old after 10 or more years.
When I was in the Army I could not wait to get on the range with the M-16. But after 2 weeks it got to be boring. Not so fun anymore.
Anakin was defiant at 9 years old like most 9 year olds. He is learning about the world around him and making opinions. Now he is way past that and honestly into the whining stage all late teen boys go through. "The world isnt fair and it should be" whine is most common.
Yoda didnt just jump around. Put the film in slow mo in those scenes and you can see him actually striking multiple times with each jump. And Dooku barely blocking each one.

Kaito Fett

<>Phant0m<>
07-03-2002, 06:32 PM
I love all the starwars films.

I must agree with Eben on some points, im glad there is other people that accually liked TPM cus i was stunned by it.
1 of the first scenes showed you the power of the light saber (when QGJ stuck it in the door) never b4 did you see that raw power.
The Duel of fates is still my fav battle between QGJ, Ob1 vs Maul, amazing fight, and a nasty backstab from maul delivers death to QGJ.
The whole fim was breathtaking.

I did enjoy AOTC vastly as well, the battles in that were epic and lasted ages (which i like accually).

MasterD-LeyAmas
07-03-2002, 08:15 PM
I think that a big part of the reason why TPM isn't viewed as being as "good" of a movie is because the event that it surrounds is much more trivial, in the big scheme of thigs, than is any other of the events in the other movies. You are right on most of your points, eben; TPM was, over all, a good movie. But the fact that it covers a small trade dispute on some planet that no one had ever even heard of before, and because there was no large space fighter battle made it seem a lot more insignificant in plot.
Yes, there was the space battle between the naboo fighters and the droid control ship; but you didn't see nearly as much of it as you did any of the space battles/getaways in the OT. And for most people, the podrace just didn't cover it.
Overall, TPM just wasn't as grandoise of a story. It was very visually impressive, it had a good story line as an individual movie. But because it was the very beginning of the story, it just couldn't hold as much content as did the OT movies. I'll admit that I thought it was great when I first saw it. And maybe later, in the grand scheme of things, it will be still regarded as a good movie (which it is). But in the end, it was just a simple story about the first encounter with the Sith in over 1000 years, and there just so happened to be a battle going on over a trade dispute. Not quite as dramatic and involved as, say for example, A New Hope.

Darth Joka'ar
07-03-2002, 09:48 PM
Sorr, I was too bias on RotJ.Actaully I do agree RotJ is nice.

-Saber Duel improve.Luke is jumping here and there.Saber Clashing with style.

-Death Star exploding quite better then ANH

-ATST is quite realistic then in ESB

-I notice Leia is beautiful in RotJ.Dunno why she look rather different in ANH and ESB

EWOKS TOTALLY SUX.I prefer Wookies or Gunguns doing the Battle of Endors rather then tiny fat furrball like EWOKS.

-Wookies is quite high in Tech(source from Star Wars Galactic Battleground).Hey, they invented the Wookies Blaster rite?

-Gungans is great!

Pedantic
07-03-2002, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar
-I notice Leia is beautiful in RotJ.Dunno why she look rather different in ANH and ESB

It's all in the metal bikini, mi amigo. ;) :D

Darth Knight
07-03-2002, 10:54 PM
i have heard people say before that ATOC didn't have enough atction before and it followed the love story between anikan and padme for too long but if it didn't wouldn't it be weird at the end of the story the just marry that is why i think it was nessacary to do that long love thingy

JandoFett1842
07-03-2002, 11:39 PM
AotC was better that TPM, just because TPM had a ton of Gungans in it!!!!

Vestril
07-03-2002, 11:50 PM
First off AotC made less money in the box offices for two reasons: one-I believe it opened in less theaters than TPM (though I could be wrong there) and two-because TPM caused dissapointment in a number of fans.

Secondly, cut the last 20 minutes out of TPM and what do you have? One podrace and one half-assed lightsaber fight. Woo-hoo.

That last fight scene was OK, they killed Qui-Gon well, though when he died and rolled over it was honestly one of the most fake looking falls I've ever seen 'I've fallen, now I will twist slightly, ahhhh, yesssssss.' But the death of Maul just mars that whole fight. That was just really pathetic. Maul goes from being a skilled warrior to a stupid idiot who couldn't find his rear with both hands. Seriously, I don't care how suprised you are: 'there goes my enemy over my head, there goes his lightsaber towards his hand, I could move ever so slightly and cut him in two as he goes over my head and I have my lightsaber in hand, but the breeze is so soothing I think I'll just--erk'

The worst part of AotC was Hayden Christiansen. There were some scenes where he was amazing, but for so much of the movie his dialogue sounded like he was reading it off of a sheet of paper. I thought Ewan McGregor did an fine job in transitioning his character, as was evident in the point you complained about, his not having fun with everything (when you've aged 10 years and basically have had to be a dad to a very difficult child, you will be having less fun ;)). Though the person that made it obvious that it wasn't Lucas's fault was Christopher Lee, who made those B-Movie lines SHINE. He needed to be the acting coach for everyone else. Even Samuel Jackson, who is an excellent actor, didn't know what to do with those lines.

I agree about Jar Jar, and I agree about midichlorians :)

As to your last 20 minutes thing, I disagree, a movie is a movie because the whole thing fits together, I mean if you take the end out of any movie it's bound to be pretty bad :p

Jedi_Monk
07-04-2002, 12:15 AM
I'm just gonna toss my two cents in.

I think that the Anakin character flowed well between the first two movies and they didn't seem at all like two completely different characters. Look at it this way: Anakin's a slave on the most barren, desolate world in the known regions. He's had a hard life, but he's made do. He has his mom, he has his friends and he has a diversion in the way of podracing. Then, he gets an opportunity to leave home to be a Jedi. So, he does... they say Jedi training is hard, but Anakin has lived a far harder life on Tatooine and he has been told all throughout his life that he has the potential to be the most powerful Jedi ever (not to mention a type of messiah character for the Jedi). You don't think these things will make someone a little arrogant?

Not only that, but all throughout his time at the Jedi Temple, he has been committing a kind of thought-crime against the Order. He's secretly been in love with this girl he met and knew only in the few weeks between when he left Tatooine and became cloistered in the Jedi Temple. He's been trying to think up ways how he can get her if he ever has half the chance.

But on the lighter side, I think Lucas wanted to see Anakin be a whiny, spoiled teenager (we all act like that's a bad thing, but it is vital to the character and the story). He is spoiled; as I've said before, they're telling him he's the greatest amongst them. However, Obi-Wan tries to counter that by being extra-critical on him and zeroing in on his every fault with very little reward when he does something right. Anakin thinks he's all that and he resents Obi-Wan... when he left everything he knew behind, he thought of the Jedi as god-like knights, the guardians of peace and justice, unstoppable, immortal. Then, Qui-Gon dies and he's given over to the hands of someone who obviously doesn't want him ("The boy is dangerous, they all see it, why can't you?"). He stagnates under the slow training which mostly deals with the mental.

That's one side of it, but a very trivial side. Anakin's still got it good, better than he ever did on Tatooine. He's just trying to rebel a little. He still obeys Obi-Wan with little resistance and takes his criticism without backtalking much ("I try master..."). But the second he's alone with someone that he thinks will sympathize with him (Padme), he cuts loose on Obi-Wan. Minor things that will only help him grow and that's just what Padme tells him. And they'll look like very minor things indeed, after Episode III.

Anakin is still an innocent, for the most part. What he has to complain about are minor and he will look back on those days as Darth Vader in his meditation chamber, his body wracked with a pain that will never go away and haunted by the spirits of countless Jedi he helped to destroy. Vader will look back and wonder why he let such trivial things distract him from a good thing. These things are vital to Anakin's character, vital to the Vader character.

I didn't read either of the novels, all of this I saw in Lloyd and Christensen. They did their jobs well and I even voted Christensen the best SW2 actor on the poll here.

As for Episode I, there are two things that annoy me about that movie (and they're not Jar Jar or the midichlorians). 1) Tatooine is in SW1 far too much; it's a very alien world, very exotic... but visually boring (except for the scenes with Anakin hunting down the Tuskens in SW2). Tatooine... been there, done that... it can really sucks the life out of a SW movie. 2) Captain Panaka's constant reference to ducks... once would've been okay, but twice? Annoys me to no end. Little things, but still...

Also, if even one Droidfighter had been destroyed by the Naboo ships, it would've improved SW1 by a lot. SW1 just falls short of greatness--it's still a good movie with stunning visuals and amazing action sequences... but compare the downtime in SW1 to the downtime in SW2. I'd much prefer to have Padme in a leather corset to watch than an empty sandscape ;)

Wow... you sure can buy a lot for two cents nowadays, huh?

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Kit fisto JK
07-04-2002, 12:37 AM
I liked AOTC better because it wasent as childish as TMP

Darth Joka'ar
07-04-2002, 01:12 AM
Maul was great but there are something rather stupid

-During the Duel between Maul and OB1 & QGJ,starting to enter the Energy Chamber after threw a bots corpse by using Force.Then stand at the edge. There! Did u notice that Maul was nearly fall off the edge. How can a Sith Apprentice been so clumsy? He got his Sixth Sense rite? How stupid when I saw that scene

-Killed by Obi-Wan unexpectedly........disappointed actually....

But the Art of Dual Lightsaber was awesome!

Jedi_Monk
07-04-2002, 02:02 AM
How can a Sith Apprentice been so clumsy? He got his Sixth Sense rite? How stupid when I saw that scene
Hm! Weak the Living Force is! If the Unifying Force, Maul had, defeated he would not have been! :yoda:

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Woad
07-04-2002, 06:24 AM
Originally posted by Vestril
First off AotC made less money in the box offices for two reasons: one-I believe it opened in less theaters than TPM (though I could be wrong there) and two-because TPM caused dissapointment in a number of fans.

Well, no not really. The main reason AotC didn't do as well was simply the competition it faced. From Spiderman to The Sum of all Fears there were a number of other big budgted, eagerly anticipated films with huge followings. Whereas when TPM was released it was a relativley stale month at the summer box office, no one wanted to take on the first Star Wars film in almost two decades.

<>Phant0m<>
07-04-2002, 08:56 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

Hm! Weak the Living Force is! If the Unifying Force, Maul had, defeated he would not have been!



This must be why QGJ got backstabbed then?

*Darth Vega*
07-04-2002, 09:43 PM
Movies that I thought were great:
Attack of Clones
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Return of Jedi

Movies I thought were crap:
Phantom Menace


My opinion it is! :vadar:

Yoda_623
07-04-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by *Darth Vega*
Movies that I thought were great:
Attack of Clones
A New Hope
Empire Strikes Back
Return of Jedi

Movies I thought were crap:
Phantom Menace


My opinion it is! :vadar:
My same exact thoughts. :)

Darth Joka'ar
07-05-2002, 12:57 AM
Before I was a fan of Star Wars, and know nuthin about. When I say SW I:TPM, I thought it was a sequal of SW:RotJ! I thought Anakin Skywalker was sort of Grandson of Luke Skywalker( I wasnt listenning the entire story):p

*Darth Vega*
07-05-2002, 03:51 AM
hahahaha that would be awsome!

Qui Gon: Who was the father of the boy?
Shmi: There was no father....

*10 years earlier*

Luke: You will have sex with me.
Shmi: I will have sex with you.

*30 seconds later*

Luke: You will not remember that.
Shmi: You can say that again, nothin much to remember in the first place!

HAHAHAHAHA!

Darth Groovy
07-05-2002, 12:25 PM
Originally posted by Vestril

Secondly, cut the last 20 minutes out of TPM and what do you have? One podrace and one half-assed lightsaber fight. Woo-hoo.



You forgot to put in the awsome invasion of Naboo scene and several scenes of Jedi kicking droid booty.

Darth Joka'ar
07-05-2002, 01:10 PM
hahaha, nice one Darth Vega, maybe Luke mind trick her so she dun remember having any sex with Luke. hey but 30 sec is rather "fast".....:p

Old_Ben
07-05-2002, 01:37 PM
What I didn't understand about TPM was why Chancellor Velorum had to send someone out to Naboo to check if the allegations were true. I would think the Jedi's word would have been good enough especially when the two people that brought QUi Gon and Obi there were killed by the Trade Federation. To me it looked like GL got to that point in the script and didn't know any other way to get Palpatine as Chancellor so he threw that in there hoping no one would notice.

By the way i like TPM but I also enjoyed AOTC.

Ben_Walker
07-05-2002, 02:01 PM
I did think Darth Maul's death was cheap. At the most he could've had a quick final 'final' duel with Obi-Wan and then get's sliced through and falls down the pit.

Darth Groovy
07-05-2002, 02:14 PM
Originally posted by Ben_Walker
I did think Darth Maul's death was cheap. At the most he could've had a quick final 'final' duel with Obi-Wan and then get's sliced through and falls down the pit.

I think George was trying to illestrate the point that over confidence is what got Maul killed. At least that is what I got out of it.

Breton
07-18-2002, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

Hm! Weak the Living Force is! If the Unifying Force, Maul had, defeated he would not have been! :yoda:

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Well, if Maul had not stood there thriumphant, thinking of how pleased Sidious was going to be, and instead have gotten his consentration on the moment, he would not have been killed.

MaulerZ
07-18-2002, 10:58 PM
I think TPM was a better film......AOTC was okay i guess but some of the acting sucked (mainly Hayden.....sry all u Hayden worshippers out there i just thought he over did his role as anikan)
Ewan was pretty good in both films but i must say tho AOTC had is moments like the Genosis Arena Battle was pretty good....the Yoda vs. Dooku was pretty good well worth the money to see yoda with a lightsabre......
The only reason I like TPM bettter is because AOTC love scenes were brutal...... just my opinion u dont have to think like i do... think ur own way.........May the force be with you all!