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View Full Version : .bsp to .map.Is it possible?


dimi30
07-09-2002, 06:46 AM
I would like to take a look at the SP levels in order to find how they did some stuff(I got bored asking a crapload of questions here) however they are in .bsp format. Is it possible to convert them to .map in order to open them in radiant and study them?

Darth Jello
07-09-2002, 06:48 AM
i dont think so... .bsp is play only!!

dimi30
07-10-2002, 06:00 AM
Thats bad. Anyone else?

Xzzy
07-10-2002, 06:15 AM
there are bsp decompilers for q3a, but they don't work for jk2 maps. They also don't translate a lot of important info (like entities and curves I think).

So yes it's possible, but not currently and not with jk2.

And if you did do it it wouldn't be terribly useful.

Karshaddii
07-10-2002, 08:53 AM
SHUSH!!

If anyone knows how do not--DO NOT--post that information on these boards or anywhere else--

Think of all the material, ideas, and other cool stuff that would be stolen from here on out it that info were to fall into the wrong hands.

I am a mapper--and I am sure plenty of other mappers do not want to see their work stolen by some noob and posted up on Outcastmaps.com giving him credit!!!!

That kind of information is the kind you keep to yourself.

Note: I am not flaming anyone and dimi30--I do not accuse you of having any messed up intentions--but plz don't ask that again.

Ok--you scared me....I'll calm down as soon as my heart level drops back to a decent number--two hundred clicks or so.

= )

:eek:

Xzzy
07-10-2002, 09:02 AM
yeah, don't post those bsp decompilers because as we all know it would be impossible to recreate someone's map by extracting all the textures and doing it manually!

give me a break, if stuff like that really bothers you don't freaking release any maps because if someone wants it, I guarantee you they'll take it. Posting links on a board won't change that.

Plus, typing two words into any search engine will get the same results so it's not like it's a big secret.

dimi30
07-10-2002, 10:26 AM
To Xzzy:

Were you talking to me or Karshaddii?

To Karshaddii:

How the heck will the n00b steal their work if they have already released it(or else how will the n00b get the .bsp before release of a map)? Unless he modifies it a lot(which means hes got skillz in mapping and can create his own map too so why steal someone else's)everyone will be able to easily spot a copied map.

Karshaddii
07-10-2002, 11:52 AM
Did I post that message?

...oops...I did...

Look, I was wanting to get alot off my chest--my best friend and I had an argument then he left the IM before anything coudl be straitened out.

Then when I was browsing I saw your message--read it--posted a reply and began typing cause it sorta does bother me--I don't know if you have noticed it or not, but some maps released on Outcast maps.com have some stolen stuff from the Lucas/Raven maps---it doesnt bother me all that much--I never meant to post the above message--really--I though I closed the browser.

Im sorry--had a rough day--sorry to even type out something that could cause dispute.

Is there a way to delete/edit messages?

I really byte at using web forumns--I dont even know how to quote some one :confused::(

dimi30
07-10-2002, 08:48 PM
You're welcome

Karshaddii
07-10-2002, 10:23 PM
Uuhhhh...???...thanks???


= /

dimi30
07-10-2002, 10:40 PM
I was trying to say that I accept your apology.

UltimateZeus
07-11-2002, 05:43 AM
The problem is not that they will steal your maps, the problem is that they will copy and paste parts of the map :mad:

Karshaddii
07-11-2002, 06:16 AM
Thats what I mean and have seen done.


People steal parts of the map they don't know how to do--like switches, pipes, complicated staircases, prefabs, and textures, respectively.

I have seen all of the above done.

Triton1050
07-11-2002, 07:12 AM
Are you talking about stealing from the raven maps, I dont see that as a big deal , its not like its someone elses work ... that doesn't seem like a big deal to me , they're prolly taking those switches and pipes from the original game maps so they have a more realistic looking maps well anyways thats just my opinion, I don't cthikn stealing from other mappers is good btw

jipe
07-11-2002, 07:25 AM
One of the major reasons a bsp to map program would be useful is for Raven's levels, to see how they did things. So what if someone cracks open your level? If they copy entire rooms or something, you can request the level be taken down. So what if they have some similar pieces of architecture? Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

dimi30
07-11-2002, 08:45 AM
To Karshaddii:

Everything you mention is not important except textutes.

To Triton1050:

Well Raven maps IS Raven's work just they won't care if ppl steal things from their maps thats why its fine.(btw the other things u say are correct)

Xzzy
07-11-2002, 09:49 AM
actually they do care if you "steal".

They do stipulate that any map or module you distribute and uses their artwork says so in a readme.

Emon
07-11-2002, 10:02 AM
I would think it's rather obvious, seeing as it comes with the game...

Karshaddii
07-11-2002, 11:25 AM
"Similar Architecture is the highest form of flattery"


Yes, I agree, but ripping the same complicated staircase from someones map then slapping on new textures is not flattery.

And the person who said taking things from Raven's maps then putting them into yours is fine--It's not--it's stealing! Its the same thing as so called "music sharing."

Now, I am all for Raven showing us how they did their maps--BUT--maybe they do not want us to know all their tricks-? If you had an ingenious idea--would you exploit it--or give it away?

And if they wanted us to see how they did all their maps--they would have provided all the .map files for us.

Understanding comes from seeing--and seeing comes from understanding--but understanding does not follow after seeing.

Or somthing like that...= /

dimi30
07-11-2002, 08:47 PM
Now, I am all for Raven showing us how they did their maps--BUT--maybe they do not want us to know all their tricks-? If you had an ingenious idea--would you exploit it--or give it away?

They have no reason to hide their tricks. Raven's maps are not to compete with custom ones so why hide their ingenious idea?

And if they wanted us to see how they did all their maps--they would have provided all the .map files for us.

Again I ask why would they hide their maps as they are not going to compete with customs. In JKI every map could be opened in an editor but I don't remember stolen maps or rooms or anything.

Emon
07-12-2002, 12:21 AM
I don't see how reusing Raven's material is stealing. If you call it your own work it's stealing, but if you say you reused Raven's materials, how is that stealing?

Karshaddii
07-12-2002, 02:13 AM
Gee, see If I ever hire you guys--=P

Ok--let me explain--


No, Raven is not trying to compete with custommaps--and I did noy say that their reason was so we wouldn't learn all their tricks--It was just a guess--I don't know Raven's intentions.

But I DO know that if Raven wanted us to look at their map--they would have provided .map files for them--I know this because they included ONE sp map as an example, and ONE multi map.

And replying to the guy who said that he didn't undertstand what was stealing if a person took something out of one of Raven's map and then gave Raven credit for it.

Ok--thats nice--you gave Raven credit for their own work that you put in there map--but two of the three custom maps I have played that took stuff from Raven and didn't give Raven credit.
And let's use an analogy.

Little Billy went to the local drugstore and stole 5 candybars. Then he went to his house and set up a CandyBar stand and put his candybars up on the market for 5 cents each.

BUT--Little Billy thought it was not wrong of him to do this--because his sign, which advertised the candybars said:

"Taken from the Local Drugstore: Candybars! Five Cents each."

Now class, did Little Billy's sign make stealing the candy bars moral?

= )

Emon
07-12-2002, 03:03 AM
No, of course not. However, your analogy is flawed:

1. He is selling the candy bars, we are not selling our levels.

2. The material made by Raven is ALREADY IN THE GAME, everyone already has it. It's not like you are giving them something of someone else's which you do not already have.


Okay, let's say this. I made a new saber hilt, and it uses the original saber JPEG made by Raven. I release it, and I do not credit Raven. Am I stealing?

Karshaddii
07-12-2002, 03:26 AM
Now I have three points to make.

Yes, you are correct in both your statements--however:

(1) My analogy IS flawed--if we are talking about selling junk--but that is not my point--which you are missing. My point is that you can't take things without asking.

(2) No, you are not wrong to take the origional saber hilt JPEG that was made by Raven--they included for your use. Just like they included their textures for your use. And just like they included their effects--and some sound files. And yes, those are taken for granted that you used their textures. But they gave you permission to use them--they did not give you (again, you is relative--I don't mean you as in you personally) permission to hack pieces of their levels and use them in your map.

New analogy--same one as before--but Little Bobby (or whatever the heck his name was) except he was giving the candybars away

Look--don't get all defensive--this is my view on morality and you guys are all wrong and going to hell--so don't worry about it.

;)

Kidding, kidding.

Emon
07-12-2002, 04:17 AM
Okay, say we've got two resources that are already in the game and that everybody has. One is a staircase from a level, the other is a JPEG on a saber hilt. I fail to see why one would be stealing and not the other.

They gave us the MAP files for examples. Okay, what makes you think they are trying to keep us from taking stuff from the BSP? Compiling has more to it than to keep people from stealing your levels (lighting, vis, culling etc). Do you honestly think that Raven's level designers would be upset if you took a staircase from the Doomgiver level? I doubt it. Most of the Raven staff doesn't even care about people using bootlegs of their own game, I doubt they would care about a staircase.

dimi30
07-12-2002, 04:18 AM
I just wanted to study Raven's maps and learn some tricks however if ppl think its so important and that we will be running that big danger if its possible then forget it.

Karshaddii
07-12-2002, 04:32 AM
Good grief---You don't get the point.


And to Dimi30

I know--this is become more of a big deal that what you ever intended--sorry.

Ok--dude--

Maybe Raven doesn't care if you make bootleg copies of their game
Maybe they don't care if you rip junk from their level
Maybe they dont care if you accredit yourself with the creation of Jedi Outcast.


THAT ISNT THE POINT

Its wrong to take things without asking--I am not saying that is is very wrong--or that it is a serious matter--or if anyone would care! But it is wrong!

Yes, the .bsp file has more to do witha level than just protecting it--but that is totally irrelevant!

If you kill someone but the family doesn't care--does that make it right? Of course not!

Lets use a less serious matter---

If you take a penny from your Mother without asking--but she wouldn't care--does it make it right--no! But it's not seriously wrong--its not even sternly wrong. But it is still wrong.

My whole and entire point--taking things--that were not given to you--without asking--is wrong.

Period.

Emon
07-12-2002, 04:42 AM
What I don't get is how taking a saber JPEG is not wrong but taking a staircase is.

dimi30
07-12-2002, 04:48 AM
So what do you suggest? Sending e-mail to Raven and asking them if you can use stuff(even though as I saied I didn't care to take stuff)? And something else: if ppl who do it are wrong then bad for them. You can't correct them. Even without the .bsp to .map they still got a whole example to steal from(and it contains pretty much everything they will want to steal). Most other levels contain the same things and few new ones(which are the ones I wanted to learn how to make).

Karshaddii
07-12-2002, 05:39 AM
JUMPING JAR-JAR!!!

I KNOW ALL YOU WANTED TO DO WAS SEE HOW THEY DID IT!

NO, I DO NOT SUGGEST THAT YOU E-MAIL RAVEN!!

I SUGGEST THAT YOU FIND A PROGRAM THAT WILL CONVERT .BSP FILES TO .MAP FILES!!! WITHOUT ASKING!!!!

AND WHY YOUR AT IT, TAKE SOMETHING YOU LIKE AND PUT IT IN YOUR MAP!!!

And I am one hundred percent serious too---you guys cannot get my point into your heads!

I did not EVER say DONT take stuff from people.

I did not EVER tell you to ask permission before you grab something.

Frankly, I could care less--seriously--I take soundfiles from LucasArts for my maps all the time (I don't release them however)

But that does not change the fact that it is minisculely, microscopically, 1/100000000 of slightly wrong!

AND THATS MY POINT!!

CAN WE LEAVE IT AT THAT??

I am not your mother for crying out loud--I am not about to tell anyone on these--or any other forumns not to do anything!

Do whatever you guys please!

I made my point, because someone--I don't even remember who put me on the defense.

Ok.
Period.

Go buy yourself some Ice Cream.
And while your at it get me a Sunday with those little colourful sprinklies.

I like those....:rolleyes:

Emon
07-12-2002, 05:57 AM
Um, okay... You don't seem to get MY point, but whatever.

If you want to do something like Raven did, and if you CAN decompile the BSP, just do it to figure out HOW they did it and remake it. 95% of the time, Raven's material won't fit in your level anyways.

UltimateZeus
07-13-2002, 05:42 AM
Please people. This thread was not started as being about Raven. It is about copying other people's maps. And stealing a JPG from somebody else's hilt is a bad thing. I am sure people don't mind if their stuff is used but they get hacked off when they don't even get credited for it.