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Harukaze
07-09-2002, 09:15 AM
Okay, so I really can't rename a thread. Might as well begin a new one now that I have a couple screenshots to share. If you didn't read the other thread, this is a work in progress in the truest sense of the phrase - it's in progress, but there's a long way to go. These two pictures should illustrate that fairly well.

Neither of these has tattoos, but the final versions all will.

Yes, my Master (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0486.jpg)

Dude, where's my landspeeder? (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0492.jpg) - Wow, he looks stoned here ^_^

For those who haven't read the other thread, nothing is finished yet. The undershirt is the only thing that I even consider to be at the rough draft stage. The clothing is only beginning to get the most basic of textures, and none of it matches yet. You might notice that the drape isn't textured at all yet. The hand looks messed up in this shot, but that's JO's lighting; in other shots it looks fine thus far even without details. Once I detail it, I hope it'll look better.

So my basic plan for the skin is a standard skinpack - one main skin with team colors. Each Zabrak will be somewhat unique, although they'll all be wearing similar clothes. The color of the belt, pants and stole will determine the team. Hair [or lack thereof], eyes and tattoos will also differ, so that each will be his own character. Besides the massive ammount of work needed to be done on the clothing, I'll be attempting to do my own horns and teeth, which are the only non-original portions of this skin.

Problems to date: getting the hair to line up on the neck and the back of the head looks like it might be difficult, but I haven't given it any real effort yet... been busy with other portions, and I don't get to spend all that much time working on skinning at the moment. Other actual problems are pretty minor and come and go from update to update, so really that's the only consistant one.

More screenshots will be coming regularly here-on-out. Every update I make I get a new batch of shots [I've actually taken a good 150 of this model alone now] but most were from multiplayer bots in action, so the shot didn't turn out the way I wanted ;) Besides, it's only really evolved far enough recently for me to share anything at all.

SithBrakiss
07-10-2002, 10:11 AM
i suggest dropping the hair,giving him some intresting tatoo's on the right side of the face,and giving the upper torso more detail...just my opinion tho.

Harukaze
07-11-2002, 10:50 AM
Another screenshot. Not much further along, spent way too much time playing in Icarus ^_^

He still looks a little stoned. I think I'm going to try to see what it'll look like if I get rid of the eyes he currently has, make new ones, and put lips partially over them, so he's not so bugeyed.

You might notice, I got rid of the horns I borrowed from the Darth Maul skin and made my own. *sheeps* They're completely untextured at the moment, but I mapped out which bone is which on the skin and will be doing something with them soon.

The drape, the extension of his jacket, is right now the only other completely untextured part of the skin. It's pure black in the front and blue-black in the back, just for testing purposes.

The next step is to texture the drape, retexture the sleeves and retexture the jacket, so that they all match and they actually begin to look like fabric. Then I'll do something with the horns, but I'm not sure what exactly yet; I don't think I want to copy the lined look of the Maul horns, since looking at Eeth Koth, smoother horns seem more common. At that point, the skin will be at version 1. I could in theory release it then, but I don't think I will just yet, if for no other reason that version 1 is still going to be fairly low-quality. Oh, and almost forgot, the tattoos. I printed out the wireframe, on which I'll be sketching some tattoo ideas.

Anyway, here's one new screenshots from the SP engine. If I get something else done soon, I'll be posting again shortly; but I want to at least get rid of the black-and-blue drape first.

In the elevator (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0584.jpg)

Kururin
07-11-2002, 10:59 AM
Harukaze why dont you make the zabrak into Eeth Koth

Harukaze
07-11-2002, 12:33 PM
Considering Eeth Koth is in the training linneage of one of my favorite Jedi [Master Koth trained Sharad Hett who trained his own son A'sharad Hett], I would love to. However, look at the picture, and then at my avatar. Sadly, Koth and Maul come from different races of the Zabrak species, and thus have different horn patterns. I'm not sure what race he is, but Maul is an Iridonian Zabrak, so the three characters I'm slowly designing will also be Iridonians.

Small update: no new pics for it, but I added tattoos! Took ideas right off concept art for Galaxies, so I will not be using them in the final version, but instead this will give me an idea of what it looks like with tattoos and what hair and tattoos look like together. I didn't want to post new pictures until I retexture his jacket. Hopefully, tomorrow night I can get to that, but for now, it's time to crash. Whee, sleep!

BradFu
07-11-2002, 01:45 PM
I also vote for getting rid of the hair. I've never heard of a Zabrak with hair, I don't think they exist. Unless someone knows different :)

Harukaze
07-11-2002, 06:53 PM
Actually, they do. I believe Eeth Koth himself also has hair under his cowl, but I can't back that up. Instead, if you check out my other thread [from before I had a screenshot, which is why I began a differently named thread] I link to concept art from SW Galaxies: An Empire Divided. Those clearly show some Zabrak with hair. The only Zabrak I really know without hair is Darth Maul, because he shaved it all off to go for a full body tattoo. Ouch.

Oh, almost forgot a link to the thread. Tis here! Male Zabrak WIP - no screenshots yet (http://64.246.44.70/~lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=67331) I couldn't rename the thread so I just began the new one.

Thing is, most don't have [I]short hair, sadly. Oh well, this guy's just different I guess ^_^ I'd love to model hair for him as a selectable surface, but I have neither asked nor received permission from Chesire actually to edit the model, nor do I know how to do so even if I did.

*yawns* Five hours of sleep, bah. To all who don't work in offices... and to all those too young to need full time jobs year around... run away. Run very far away, so that you never know what an office job is like. Save yourselves! It's too late for meeee....

Kururin
07-12-2002, 12:31 AM
Star wars Galaxies the zabrak have hair but that might just be the girl zabrak.

Kent H
07-12-2002, 04:17 AM
Any Zabrak can have hair, just like any human can. Any Zabrak can br bald (or shave), just like any human can.

Reb Starblazer
07-13-2002, 03:11 AM
Harukaze, just some information. All Zabraks are from Iridonia, that's their homeworld. And while I'm not sure if every Zabrak has a unique horn pattern, I am fairly confident horn patterns vary between "Tribes" of Zabraks(kinda like different hair and skin colour of humans). Not trying to demean you in any way, just that a little more knowledge never hurt anyone:) And btw, I remember reading somewhere that Eeth Koth does have hair, and if you look closely, you can see it flowing down over his chest in the larger version of your avatar photo(Somewhat hard to distinguish from his robe, but it is there:D) So yes, you're right, Zabraks do have hair. I think it's mostly on the back to middle part of their heads though.

Harukaze
07-13-2002, 05:30 AM
Right. If you look at the "Yes, my Master" picture, the hair starts way back, around where I've seen it begin on other Zabraks.

And not all Zabraks are from Iridonia. That might be their homeworld, but like humans, they've evolved so far past their home that they're not sure precisely. Coruscant might be the human homeworld, but no one remembers. The same goes with Iridonia for the Zabraks. According to one source I have, they're nearly as prolific as humans, with many worlds of their "own" [such as Correllia and Alderaan are "human" worlds, even though with both species' worlds non-human and non-Zabrak respectively do live there]. I wish I knew more about what other worlds there were, and what might be common names. I need the new RP book back again, that could give me an idea. I want to name all three of the characters [default, red and blue] and give them backstories. One or two are Jedi, the other's a drifter / smuggler / whatever. I agree with Starblazer though, different "tribes," or races, or whatever, probably have different bone structures, but not every single different Zabrak. It doesn't make much sense from an evolutionary standpoint for that to be the case, but it could make sense that different races have different horns.

Anyway, expect new screenshots this weekend. I just flattened the whole thing, so that I'll have the same base starting point for everything. The whole project was an experiment, with me only beginning to learn how to make a new skin from nothing but a wireframe. Now that I have an idea, I've begun over again from scratch, keeping only the head [and that too will be updated soon-ish] and will hopefully have something even better to show for it.

Kent H
07-13-2002, 12:00 PM
Yeah, basically humans, Duros, and Zabrak (roughly in that order) are the most populous (sp?) (more of them than anybody else) species in the galaxy. The Rodians might be up there too, except that being hunters they tend to die alot. Of course, what else would you expect from a culture that glorifies death and the hunt (Rodian opera is all about death).

That's why there are so many near-human varients. There are different types of Zabrak, based on which colony they come from; Iridonia is only one of them. Even Duros have their "near-Duros" cousins; Nemoidians are actually Duros removed by millenia of evolution.

Harukaze
07-15-2002, 12:34 AM
I have temporarily ditched the hair, and for now I'm not showing my tattoo designs.

I discovered a glorious paintbrush in Photoshop that allows me to make actual cloth-looking textures, so he looks a lot better than before. I tried it once, thought, wow, this is gorgeous... until I got it in game. The game's lighting made it look as flat as he is up there. I have since exagerated the process on the drape and like what I have thus far. So, for now, two new shots; mind you, only the drape is remotely done at the moment. I redid almost everything else [cept the head] but I think I'm going back to the old shirt, or at least I'm going to try to recapture what I did there.

In a few minutes, I'm going back to work on the jacket and sleeves. Once done, I'm finally texturing the horns, and then beginning work on alternate versions. As you might be able to guess, this one here is a preview of the blue version. He's an as-of-yet unnamed Jedi Knight of the late Republic era. By tonight he should be almost done, and by the end of the week I expect to be able to release the skinpack.

Shot676 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0676.jpg)
Shot677 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0677.jpg)

As always, please, any comments or questions, feel free to post. I'll take any constructive criticism I can get as this is my first full skin project.

Oh, and just cause this is a fun one, even though you really don't get to see the Zabrak up close, I'll toss in one more :) He only survived a few minutes after this picture was taken, and it's pretty easy to see why ^_^
Shot646 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0646.jpg)

Reb Starblazer
07-15-2002, 01:19 AM
Yea Harukaze, you hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what I meant with that post, but I think the way I worded it made it not get my point across. I meant to say that the Zabrak species is from Iridonia "originally", but as you pointed out, many are now born off planet and have never even been to Iridonia. Eeth Koth for example, was born and raised on Nar Shadaa, but he is considered an "Iridonian" Zabrak. And I'm fairly confident that different "Tribes", for lack of a better term, do have different horn patterns, at least we agree on that. Also, another thing I noticed that you got right with your Zabrak(not sure if you intentionally did this though, excellent work if you did), is that his horns are the same colour as his skin, like Eeth Koth's. Skin grows over and covers a Zabrak's vestigal horns. Darth Maul's however, are more bone-like in appearance because that's basically all they are. He apparently, maintains this look by periodically filing the skin off his horns, or he removes it by some other method(BTW, OW:(, and I thought shaving was bad) I wish I could rememer the site I got most of this information from, it would probably be a great help.
Your work is coming along very nicely, I particularly like the Jedi robe. Great job.

lok-on
07-15-2002, 01:19 AM
iam making one of my 1st skins making the maul model. but the problem is i can't get it to work in the game unless i replace the original models. Can anyone help me?

Wes Marrakesh
07-15-2002, 03:23 AM
i was just going to say that i believe that ALL zarbak also have tattoos, not just maul. they would probably be the same in a tribe, too
EDIT: Of course you probably knew that and I missed your earlier post :o

Kururin
07-15-2002, 04:20 AM
Lok-on send it to me and I will do it for you cause its to long to explain and it will take me one minute to do Bobafett10186@aol.com

Harukaze
07-15-2002, 09:20 AM
Almost done! Here's a taste of the tattoos, as well as the clothing for the default skin. It is finished in my mind unless anyone offers up a suggestion. Detail for the boots is a little beyond my skill at the moment, so maybe in the future I'll release an update for that. The horns have a slight texture to them, but it's really more a skin-tone coloration than a texture, which is how I wanted it. Like I said earlier and Starblazer backed me up on, only Maul has the more chiseled looking horns; people like Master Koth have very smooth, skin/bone colored horns. I lidded his eyes a little more so he doesn't have such a wide-eyed gaze. Lesse... what else? Think that's about it. Oh yeah, I forgot to change his belt-pouch, it's still the blue version; don't worry, I'll change it. It's probably going to be black on the default version.

I think, although I'm not decided yet, that I'm abandonning the hair idea. Unless I can maybe convince Chesire to update the model with hair as a selectable surface, my Zabrak might just happen to be bald Zabrak ^_^ The short hair kinda works, especially where the tattoos run underneath the hair - perhaps he's young and only just received his tattoos, and had to shave his head in order to complete the design; the hair would only just be beginning to grow back, right? I love convenient explanations ^_^ Okay, so I take that back, one of the skins at least will have hair, but not all three, and that's a definate.

Shot0691 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0691.jpg) Not sure what he's going to attack, but I'm sure glad I'm behind him ^_^

Shot0701 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0701.jpg) Oh crap, he sees me now *runs*

Shot0704 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0704.jpg) Really out-of-place beltpouch

Shot0705 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0705.jpg) No matter what I do, he still looks stoned

Shot0719 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0719.jpg) Glad this one's on my side ^_^

Shot0720 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0720.jpg) Mission accomplished

One last note, on the tattoos. Yes, I know, they're quite angular. I'm still trying to figure out if this is normal or not; one source I've seen suggests angular tattoos, one suggests more curved lines. Anyone know for certain which is correct? It's kinda hard to tell on Koth.

Harukaze
07-15-2002, 09:41 AM
Nevermind, found better pictures of Koth on starwars.com. I've got an idea of what I want to do now.

lok-on
07-15-2002, 10:06 AM
it's ok boba i found out how to do it thanks anyway!

Darth Vigrid
07-15-2002, 02:20 PM
Your skin is coming along nicely. I was actually messing around with some Zabrak skins before I started my Joruus model. I really didn't know what I was doing then, but some tutorials have helped me out. The clothing textures look great, glad you got them figured out.

Kstar__2
07-15-2002, 09:14 PM
i cant skin, but maybe you should ad more detail: the lines in his face etc

adillon
07-15-2002, 11:13 PM
i really dig the skin you're creating. i'm glad to see that somebody has made a "good guy" zabrack (i know, i know, there were "good guy" skins included with the maul model). not for anything, but maul kind of gave the race a pretty bad reputation. eeth koth is a good guy, too, but we don't really know what he's capable of, do we?

as for your tattoos, angular VS curvy, DO take a look at the skins that came with the maul model. maul's were angular (like nobody knew that ;)), but the other ones (black & white face and blue face) seemed to have more curvy, rounded lines on their tats. basically make your tattoos however you think they look good. personally, i think the curved lines resemble someone using the light side of the force, or even angular lines that aren't overwhelming. i think koth has angular ones, but their mainly lines, not as bold as maul's.

he looks *BLEEP* great overall. and don't say he's stoned, say he's "meditating" ... yeah, that's it. :D

are you gonna be using maul's sounds for this guy, or are you coming up with custom audio? just curious.

keep up the great work!

Wes Marrakesh
07-16-2002, 12:11 AM
great skin!
umm... just a n00b question over here
what program d oyou use and can you give me a tutorial?:o :D
i don't know anythign about skinning but i want to:confused: :rolleyes: ......

Pyro638
07-16-2002, 01:15 AM
Hmmmm.........pretty good. I was wondering since your already skinning a maul could you make me a reg. darth maul just with green tattoes? I dont wanna be an ashole and take you away from ur work, but I was j/w if you had some time or after your done with this guy. If you have any chance to skin him just send it to CB6368@aol.com

Thanks :D

Harukaze
07-16-2002, 05:58 AM
GOOD question about the sounds... so far he's been using the Jedi1 sounds, which are kinda weak, albeit fitting; he IS a Jedi after all. I'll have to think about that, but I have until the end of the week probably before he's finished.

I know what I want to do with the tattoos now, and I'm going to try to get them done tonight unless I get a phonecall I'm expecting ^_^ I'm going with angular but not rigid, and I've come up with a few other ideas too. I have to kill the loopish thing I have on the hinge of his jaw since I stole that directly from the concept art of Galaxies. I've got enough of an idea what else to do that I'm going to just run with it and see how it looks. Maybe some new screens tonight.

As for a green Maul, I'm sorry to say I have to decline. I've got a lot of projects I want to get started on, and I've still got several days to go on this project alone; once I'm done with this guy, I've got to finish the blue skin up and then start the red. I'm considering doing an entirely different outfit for red, to try to learn to do some other types of fabric, which means I'm going to need quite a bit of time. Also, I've got something I want to try with one of the skins, which could either look really dumb or really great. Either way, I'll tell everyone after the fact, so that I can at least laugh at myself before anyone else if it turns out to be bad ^_^

Lord Ignasius
07-16-2002, 07:37 PM
I made a green maul type skin. I still have to ask permission from Cheshire tho, so I cant post the pics.

Also can someone explain how to get your model/skin to use the sounds.

Pyro638
07-18-2002, 09:33 AM
Sounds very cool Ignasius!! Send it to CB6368@aol.com when your done....... PLeAsSsE :D

Harukaze
07-19-2002, 09:08 AM
Quick update. Wow, tattoos are a pain, because I keep changing my mind about them.

Anyway, I've decided not to release team skins at this time. While it'd be fun [especially the red one; I was planning on doing him without a shirt under the jacket so that I could show off some chest tattoos] I think I'll simply release those later as a separate pack. There's no reason, as far as I know, that you cannot have a pack that only contains team skins, yes?

For now, I want to concentrate on hammering out the bugs in the current skin. I might trash the head and begin again, since that worked so well with the clothing; besides, I'm having difficulties properly blending the neck and head, and this way I shouldn't have any problems if I use the same technique exactly. I have tomorrow off from work, so I still hope to submit the file to jediknightii.net by Sunday. Still giving some thought to sounds, although I might still just go with the default Jedi sounds.

Also, for those interested, I'll be including some character info by the time I release the skin too.

There might be a new update tonight, but I just got my hands on the prologue to Crossroads of Twilight, and it'll be pretty damn hard to pry myself away from that ^_^

Harukaze
07-21-2002, 08:00 AM
I think I just have to accept that the lighting in JO sucks. In some lights, different meshes line up perfectly. Flesh looks like all one [relative] color, and it blends nicely.

And in other light it looks like crap.

That said, I've completely changed the idea for his shirt, and am working on making it look even remotely real now. which isn't that easy. The tattoos are now being done by pen instead of paintbrush, and I have to say I actually like what I have so far. They extend down to what little chest he's showing, but that means it crosses three meshes and still lines up; that if nothing else is cause for me to be proud, I think. They will eventually wrap around his entire head.

For some reason, he looks older than he originally did. Which is funny, because out-of-game, I always thought the face looked really old. So to match, his character story is changing. He'll just be an older Jedi, possibly a Master, instead of a newly raised Knight ^_^

I said it before, but I'm almost certain I'm decided, that without modelled hair, I'm going to leave my Zabrak bald.

Oh right, one change I'm planning his hand tattoos. Since so far he's the only Zabrak without gloves on, I can really do that and be uniquely, uhm, special or something. Yeah.

I might still finish him by tonight, but I'm beginning to have doubts. Took too much time off for video games, what can I say? At the very least, I should post new screenshots so I can point out what has changed.

Kururin
07-21-2002, 10:50 AM
I just noticed that Eeth Koth has long black hair.

Harukaze
07-22-2002, 12:03 AM
Right, that was mentioned higher up, that Zabrak have hair about as often as humans do. But since the model doesn't have hair [it was meant for Darth Maul, after all] then I think my character really won't either. I'm still going to play around with it, though, just to see how it looks.

Oh, he's got a name now! Derith Aal, Jedi Knight. Maybe Master; he does look kind of old like I think I mentioned. His undershirt was replaced with a gi-like garment that many Jedi seem to wear, but it looks kind of flat. It's my first attempt at something like that, so I'll take any suggestions I can get. I might get rid of the second layer, so I can show off more of his chest and thus have room for the tattoos there. It's hard to see, but what tattoo there is there is quite distorted because of how close to the mesh's edge it is. Not only that, but it'll be one less layer to have to add depth too ^_^ He has new eyes, which I can't remember if I mentioned, but they're really not clear in this. Oh, and I've progressed further in the tattoos, so maybe by tomorrow I'll have a good pic of that. The freehand pen tool and the selection tool are definately my friends. I don't think I'd ever be happy with the tattoos if I didn't have that.

Anyway I'm sure at least some of you are tired of hearing me babble about the skin, so Il'l shut up now and just show the damn pic :)

Shot0760 (http://www.users.drew.edu/mgoodwin/jedi/shot0760.jpg)

D@rth M@ul
07-22-2002, 01:47 AM
It's coming off very womanly now.

I suggest, adding some wrinkles to the skins face, Not too many
but just give it a older than 1 month look.

Lips - wow, little dark.

Horns - they need some texture.

I'm sure you still working on this stuff but I'm just trying to point
out stuff that I see.

GJ on it so far.

may the force be with you

Harukaze
07-22-2002, 06:05 AM
I'll take all the feedback I can get.

Sadly you're right, he is looking a bit womanly now. Dunno when that happened : / His lips are a continual work-in-progress since I didn't want to use the teeth someone else made, and there's no way I can make teeth of my own. I have gotten a bit better with them, but it still need work. The horns will be minimally textured - look at Eeth Koth, and you'll see that normal Zabrak horns are fairly smooth and monochromatic.

If things don't work out well enough, I think I'll go back to the old head... and if the mouth really continues to suck [no pun intended] then I'm going to ask Kman [I think he did the skin whose teeth I temporarily stole] if I can use just that portion. I didn't want to though; I wanted it to be 100% my own, but the mouth just is not looking right.

Pyro638
07-22-2002, 10:53 AM
I agree with Darth, and it looks GREAT. The body looks good and the old tattoes (which I thought werent bad) looked good on him too. Dont worry soon he will be done and can look back and chuckle at the problems you are having now, maybe not......either way you should release him beczuse I would love to have him replace someone in SP :D G/L!

Harukaze
07-22-2002, 11:26 AM
As far as the tattoos go, I guess I'm just picky. Time to get back to those, I guess.

Oh, and when I release him, he'll have full SP, MP and bot support. No team support; I may do that again later, since the blue version is already done for the most part. What I'll do then is release a second pk3 with no SP, bot or default skin. Anyway, back to work!