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SaberPro
07-11-2002, 06:06 AM
Take a look at Kenn's Plan

http://www.shacknews.com/finger/?fid=khoekstra@ravensoft.com

Hope this is not a repost...:)

UPDATE: downlo0ad at the following places.

http://support.lucasarts.com/patches/jedioutcast2.htm
http://www.jk2files.com/?026410490&k=1026412670&s=
http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?comments=21444

More links coming, hopefully.

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 06:08 AM
Welcome to Raven Software's Finger Service V1.6!

Name: Kenn Hoekstra
Email: khoekstra@ravensoft.com
Description: Project Admin
Project: General
Web Page: Kenn's Web Site
Last Updated: 07/10/2002 16:13:07 (Central Standard Time)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wednesday, July 10th, 2002 - Important Jedi Outcast Info:

LucasArts will be releasing the 1.04 update for Jedi Knight II:
Jedi Outcast tomorrow (Thursday) evening on their website at
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/outcast/html/default.htm.
Feel free to download and mirror it once it is available.

The update includes all of the fixes from 1.03, so if you don’t
have that update yet, this is the only one you’ll need. A list
of the changes in 1.03 can be found here:
http://support.lucasarts.com/patches/jedioutcast.htm

The primary focus of 1.04 is multiplayer balance.

Some of the features/fixes include:

Multiplayer
-----------
* Corrected issue which caused servers to crash in rare
instances.
* Corrected issue causing damage not to ramp up and down
properly when using the backstab move in light saber stance.
* Corrected bug allowing players to pivot while executing
backstab moves in all stances. Players may no longer pivot
when executing these moves.
* Fixed bug causing force pull to be unblockable by people
with equal or greater pull rank.
* Adjusted ammo usage of the Imperial repeater alt-fire.
* Fixed bug allowing inventory items to be used in FFA saber
challenges.
* Corrected an exploit which allowed players to fall from
large heights at a slow rate.
* Corrected issue which caused pain sounds not to play
properly when hit by opponents. Pain sounds should now be
relative to the amount of damage taken.

New dedicated servers will also be released tomorrow. We'll send
those out to all of the gaming file sites so you’ll be able to get
new servers set up immediately.

A few other notes on 1.04:

- Saved games are unaffected from 1.03
- Demos recorded using 1.03 are not compatible with 1.04
- Mod makers will have to update their mods to reflect new the
IP protocol introduced in 1.04. This will be a minor adjustment
to your existing mod stuffs.
- Once you upgrade to 1.04, only servers running version 1.04
will be visible in your in game browser. There may be a short
period of time where there are few 1.04 servers to play on as
server admins update to the new version.

Thanks! We appreciate your continued support of Jedi Outcast in
the online community.

Master Hamlet
07-11-2002, 06:09 AM
tell me this is not a joke? if those things are fixed i will love jk2 again.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 06:27 AM
Raven Software is making the patch - and we should be ever so grateful.

The people you should thank are "Tom Sarris" at LucasArts and "Kenn Hoekstra" of Raven Software for supporting the community in getting this patch to us.

They were behind the scenes pushing for the patches release.

We love you Tom and Kenn. :)

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 06:30 AM
Let's keep everything on this one thread - can a moderator sticky this thread please?

I just got word that the Linux Dedicated Server will be released at the sametime!

Woooooooooooooooohooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!! :)

Demolisher
07-11-2002, 06:30 AM
I hope that sabering is like it used to be and that they fixed the freezing bug!! I hope Raven and Lucasarts actually read some of the threads in game feedback and tech support before making this patch :snear:

OnlyOneCanoli
07-11-2002, 06:41 AM
Excellent. This has been stickied, and I hope you don't mind if I rename this thread to "Official 1.04 Discussion thread."

Those updates sound like just what I wanted to be fixed. I'm looking forward to it!

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 06:45 AM
Yeah...one big fix - no pivot for backsweeper and backstabber :)

and a couple of crash fixes too woohoo!

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by Demolisher
I hope that sabering is like it used to be and that they fixed the freezing bug!! I hope Raven and Lucasarts actually read some of the threads in game feedback and tech support before making this patch :snear:

"Multiplayer
-----------
* Corrected issue which caused servers to crash in rare
instances. "

That?

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith


"Multiplayer
-----------
* Corrected issue which caused servers to crash in rare
instances. "

That?

Probably not...it said server crash....

Freeze crash...I hope they fix that too lol

Emon
07-11-2002, 07:12 AM
Most freezes are due to people's crappy PCs.

Yipee! I'll actually start playing JO MP tomorrow, and I can delete U104!

Lord Sokar
07-11-2002, 07:32 AM
I pray to God in heaven that this patch takes the game back a little closer to what 1.02 was.

If it doesn't, then I'm out for good. Fingers crossed, thinking positive thoughts...

I truly want to love this game again.

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 07:33 AM
Sometimes that isn't really the case.

When you play JO and while it's loading, you see Loading Skins (and all the guns even though it's a saber only game), it's not really loading all the skins because the game will freeze for like 1-5 seconds when someone loads a new skin (and if the skin has already been loaded, it should pop right out) and i have to press Tab to get frozen and see the new skin...and my computer isn't all that crappy.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:07 AM
Am I the only person with overwhelmed excitement here?

:confused:

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 08:08 AM
ammmmm sawww daaarrn xxxcciiteed daaat i kaaannt aven tipppe...

Ready Wan
07-11-2002, 08:10 AM
It's been so long since I've played (LAN only using 1.02 for a few months now). This is good news.

Hopefully they'll give some attention to the imbalance in the force powers instituted with the 1.03 patch. I didnt find anything on that when I checked the news release.... :(

perhaps there will be more involved than was posted. (Hopes)

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Ready Wan
It's been so long since I've played (LAN only using 1.02 for a few months now). This is good news.

Hopefully they'll give some attention to the imbalance in the force powers instituted with the 1.03 patch. I didnt find anything on that when I checked the news release.... :(

perhaps there will be more involved than was posted. (Hopes)

Which reminds me of the Force Lightning/Force Draining issue...along with Force Healing too lol

Darth Kaan
07-11-2002, 08:15 AM
SWEEEEEEET!

No more excuses, play or play not, there is no whine!

Kaan

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:15 AM
I think it'll fix many key issues already in the unofficial patch 1.04 compiled source release.

As for force balances.. you can do a lot of stuff yourself.

I run my server with the following settins - and most likely still will with the new official patch:

Rage and Honor settings (in server.cfg):

seta g_forceregentime 100 - 1.02 style force regeneration.
seta g_saberghoul2collision 0 - Minimal auto-saber blocking.
seta g_sabertracesaberfirst 0 - Minimal auto-saber blocking.
seta sv_allowdownload 1 - Won't be relevant ...
seta g_dismember 300 - Dismemberment on (we prefer 300 over 2 - it's more fancy looking).

Note To Clients: Clients need to set /cg_dismember 300 (in console) to see dismemberment.

Homosexual Ewok
07-11-2002, 08:18 AM
The "freeze" bug happens when you rapidly flip up after getting knocked down. Sometimes you immediately flip up and just stand there in a sort of "pose". It takes about 2-3 seconds before you gain control of your movements. It has nothing to do with pings or PC quality. It, like the "sliding around on your feet" when rolling bug, is random and chances are still there.
Although it would of been nice to see the Dark Side get a little boost to be more on par with the Light Side, on paper the patch sounds good.

C'jais
07-11-2002, 08:24 AM
Well, it appears that the blue stance backstab is the only one that gets reduced damage (of sorts), so we'll probably still see assfighting.

Kicking might be the new trend.

I think the patch is a small step, but an important one. It could have done so many things better (IMHO, of course) but apparently only handles the "serious issues"...

Well, I'm not gonna sit here and whine away while I haven't even played it yet, so I'll wait till I've played the patch before making other smart-ass comments.

-Jais out.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:24 AM
Ewok,

Will you be using 1.04 when it comes out?

You've been pretty supportive of 1.03 - where I've been pushing for 1.04.

We both like you said, ironically agree, that 1.02 was the best.

I just wonder where you stand on this.

Or is your philosophy deal with each patch as it comes and learn what is front of you - this is what I assume you believe.

No argument intended. It's just a question.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by cjais
Well, it appears that the blue stance backstab is the only one that gets reduced damage (of sorts), so we'll probably still see assfighting.

Kicking might be the new trend.

I think the patch is a small step, but an important one. It could have done so many things better (IMHO, of course) but apparently only handles the "serious issues"...

Well, I'm not gonna sit here and whine away while I haven't even played it yet, so I'll wait till I've played the patch before making other smart-ass comments.

-Jais out.

I don't think you'll see any assfighting. On my server people either stop or get upset and leave - it just can't be done.

Basically this patch is an official patch version of the '1.04' source compiled mod.

I wish my gaming host would reset my server so I could demonstrate this to you guys.

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith
I think it'll fix many key issues already in the unofficial patch 1.04 compiled source release.

As for force balances.. you can do a lot of stuff yourself.

I run my server with the following settins - and most likely still will with the new official patch:

Rage and Honor settings (in server.cfg):

seta g_forceregentime 100 - 1.02 style force regeneration.
seta g_saberghoul2collision 0 - Minimal auto-saber blocking.
seta g_sabertracesaberfirst 0 - Minimal auto-saber blocking.
seta sv_allowdownload 1 - Won't be relevant ...
seta g_dismember 300 - Dismemberment on (we prefer 300 over 2 - it's more fancy looking).

Note To Clients: Clients need to set /cg_dismember 300 (in console) to see dismemberment.

Wow long codes....think Raven should include all these setting in the Game Setting Menu? It'd be much easier...

crazyplaya73
07-11-2002, 08:29 AM
As long as they don't nurf the saber damage completely and duels take 10 minutes it will be playable but I am very skeptical. Raven has a history now of taking away / nurfing deadly moves in the game to appease the cry babies.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by SaberPro


Wow long codes....think Raven should include all these setting in the Game Setting Menu? It'd be much easier...

Game menu would be great.

Doesn't help people like me who run a dedicated server.

Perhaps if they put in a FAQ?

I have a request from you:

Can you edit your original post and quote all the changes for 1.04 in that post (with link to Kenn's info) so people see it right away?

:)

Homosexual Ewok
07-11-2002, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith
Ewok,

Will you be using 1.04 when it comes out?

You've been pretty supportive of 1.03 - where I've been pushing for 1.04.

We both like you said, ironically agree, that 1.02 was the best.

I just wonder where you stand on this.

Or is your philosophy deal with each patch as it comes and learn what is front of you - this is what I assume you believe.

No argument intended. It's just a question.

I'll go to v1.04, got to roll with the punches so to speak.

What cjais said about kicking is true, very true. I stated this in one of my 300+ posts a while back, but F-me if I can find it.

The backstab/pull stuff was in v1.02, but the DFA was easier so no one used it.

Now with the fixed player stance (not that I have a problem with this, mind you) you are going to see kicks a Hell of a lot more.
The bottom line is with the parry and knock-aways that were introduced in v1.03, and the decreased saber damage, believe it or not, you can actually kick a person to death almost twice as fast when compared to using only normal saber swings.
This really does not affect me, because kicks have always been a large part of my play style. But consider yourself warned if you don't know how to defend against kicks.

I was kind of hoping for a little bump for Dark Side users, but oh well.
The fixed backstab was always IMO, a good idea. I just made the best of a situation when I used a mouse spin in mine.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by crazyplaya73
As long as they don't nurf the saber damage completely and duels take 10 minutes it will be playable but I am very skeptical. Raven has a history now of taking away / nurfing deadly moves in the game to appease the cry babies.

It's going to be 1.04 compiled source into an official patch.

I'm convinced of that and I have good reason to believe it - since that's what I (and many others) basically asked for.

No, I am not the lone person who gets all he wanted. But I did manage to directly contact LA (as I'm sure many others did) and they focused on what was shown to them - which was simply revealing what a lot of people wanted - at least I believe that - and if it's true, that's what we get.

This won't eliminate any mods, and things like your Duel_SE mod will still get promoted and used.

This just brings us away from some of the issues in 1.03.

That's all. :)

Twins of Doom
07-11-2002, 08:37 AM
hmmm, doesn't say anything about backsweep damage (not complaining, just pointing it out)

sounds like a good patch:)

*goes to update news on site*

*talks to leelink about getting JHQ servers running 1.04*

leXX
07-11-2002, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
SWEEEEEEET!

No more excuses, play or play not, there is no whine!

Kaan

Love it!

Homosexual Ewok
07-11-2002, 08:42 AM
I'm still waiting for "fists" dammit...

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok


I'll go to v1.04, got to roll with the punches so to speak.

What cjais said about kicking is true. I stated this in one of my 300+ posts a while back.

The backstab/pull stuff was in v1.02, but the DFA was easier so no one used it.

Now with the fixed player stance (not that I have a problem with this, mind you) you are going to see kicks a Hell of a lot more.
The bottom line is with the parry and knock-aways that were introduced in v1.03, and the decreased saber damage, believe it or not, you can actually kick a person to death almost twice as fast when compared to using only normal saber swings.
This really does not affect me, because kicks have always been a large part of my play style. But consider yourself warned if you don't know how to defend against kicks.

I was kind of hoping for a little bump for Dark Side users, but oh well.
The fixed backstab was always IMO, a good idea. I just made the best of a situation when I used a mouse spin in mine.

Fair enough.

I was always hoping there would be a way for a server to not simply turn forces on or off, or general maxforcerank - but rather the actual force ranks of each individual force - and have that expressed via server rules so people develop filters for it.

That would be in a perfect server admin world. :)

You're right - there's always going to be people spamming moves.

In my opinion - which you've heard too many times - it's a question of aesthetics - immersion - not so much gameplay balance (that will always depend on player style - you've convinced me of that - yes you were right).

At least kicks 'look real' and are 'plausible'.

I didn't see the 3 Muskateers running around backwards. :p

Homosexual Ewok
07-11-2002, 08:49 AM
You know Quiet; one damn good idea for a mod would be a Rocket Arena 3 type vote system mod.
If you have never played it, you can call a vote to disable certain weapons, fall damage, team damage, whatever.
If given the options, players in this case could do that to disable certain guns, Force powers and so on.
You would think this vote system is abused with a call vote every 10 seconds, but it is not.

It's all GUI, very similar to the vote system in JO now, no console knowledge is needed.

C'jais
07-11-2002, 08:56 AM
Well, I'm no expert on backstabs, so I ask you guys instead - How much does the "pivoting" in backstabs matter?
They are still just as deadly no?
That is my assumption on the continued backstabbing - they give the same damage, even though they hit SLIGHTY worse now.

And instead of "Jedi Knight 2 jedi outcast" - We *might* have to change the name to "Karate Knight 2 Dojo outcast".... *lol*....

One thing I'm curious about though: Will the "slower fall rate"-fix mean NO AIR-LUNGES AT ALL? I don't care really, but some folks have based their entire fighting style on the air-lunge, so who knows?

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:57 AM
Oh yah Rocket Arena would be a nice type mod - love the zero respawn options (if I'm thinking of the right mod).

I'd also like to see an OSP JK 2.

Those guys know balance - imo.

Another Q3 mod that has a really funny voting system is Threewave.

You battle it out over gametypes, and then people jump through Alice and Wonderland type doorways to choose maps. :)

Xenoeye
07-11-2002, 09:09 AM
Originally posted by Twins of Doom
hmmm, doesn't say anything about backsweep damage (not complaining, just pointing it out)

sounds like a good patch:)

*goes to update news on site*

*talks to leelink about getting JHQ servers running 1.04*

lol, exactly what I did.
Update clan site, talk to clan server admin.

Darth Kaan
07-11-2002, 09:19 AM
Originally posted by cjais
Well, I'm no expert on backstabs, so I ask you guys instead - How much does the "pivoting" in backstabs matter?
They are still just as deadly no?
That is my assumption on the continued backstabbing - they give the same damage, even though they hit SLIGHTY worse now.

And instead of "Jedi Knight 2 jedi outcast" - We *might* have to change the name to "Karate Knight 2 Dojo outcast".... *lol*....

One thing I'm curious about though: Will the "slower fall rate"-fix mean NO AIR-LUNGES AT ALL? I don't care really, but some folks have based their entire fighting style on the air-lunge, so who knows?

cjais,

I have played the U104 since it came out. The list (from the link uptop) of what the official 1.04 changes is almost identical to U104 which fixed the following as far as saber combat:

Blue Stance: No more air lunges. The backflip/frontlunge bug has been removed where you have to complete the flip before beggining the lunge, and No more "floating down" from very high without taking damage.

Also, you can't "spin" in any stance when doing a BS, its fixed point so it is A LOT harder to time and make contact. Even if you do, it is not a one hit kill anymore on someone with full health and shields. This damage adjustment applied to all stances and finishing moves. There was more, some weapons loadouts and firing rates were tweaked, etc.


So ya, making the BS fixed point and not being able to turn or spin around takes all the appeal out of the move 1.03 gave it for those that only use IT. It will still be a viable move when timed right but is no longer the one hit kill wonder.

One thing is for sure, as soon as the OFFICIAL 1.04 is released tommorow, we will know for sure. :)

Kaan

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 09:23 AM
My server is back up if you want a 'taste of 1.04'.

See sig.

C'jais
07-11-2002, 09:31 AM
If it does as you say Kaan, then I'll be truly happy....

Only one problem:
This "Karate Knight 2 - Black belt upgrade-patch", might just be the signal for thousands of little aspiring kickers to come out and harass me on the servers..... I sure hope this patch doesn't promote kicking since BS is partially gone, but I'm horrified at the thought.

Well, at least the kick isn't a one-hit-kill-move.... That's always something.

Ready Wan
07-11-2002, 09:33 AM
[i]
Although it would of been nice to see the Dark Side get a little boost to be more on par with the Light Side, on paper the patch sounds good. [/B]

Dark Side really does need some kind of help. I sure hope they even out the powers a bit, or it'll be more of the same: all light side and all force absorb. :(

Xenon812
07-11-2002, 09:37 AM
Ok so with all the above discussion, I wonder if there will be anything affected in SP mode by the 1.04 patch.

I personally am a fan of SP. And though I have not had any problems with the game, I will update to 1.04, and am just curious if there will be any change for the better....

And for that matter...I wonder if there will be an expansion pack in the future....like when Jan & Kyle go on vacation, and they are doing the humpty-dumpty on a moonlit beach, and all of a sudden Luke shows up to tell them there is some new danger they haveta deal with RIGHT NOW...or....well..whatever...
:D

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Ready Wan


Dark Side really does need some kind of help. I sure hope they even out the powers a bit, or it'll be more of the same: all light side and all force absorb. :(

Try this on a server:

seta g_forceregentime 100

Default is 200 - so half the time to regenerate.

Gives darkside a big boost, imo.

crazyplaya73
07-11-2002, 09:52 AM
I have absorb (and lightning to be fair) disabled in FFA mode on my server and I guess I'll be sticking with that unless they did change something but it wasn't in the update.

If I had one wish for something that could be in this patch and we just don't know it yet it would be to have more CVARS to adjust kick, saber throw, saber swings, and all of the special saber moves to a certain degree within reason. This way each server could be tweaked so that if the players want very strong sabers but weak saber throw and weak kick I can have that without needing a MOD.

Oh, does anyone know if the patch adds multiple duels in FFA?

It would be nice if we didn't need a MOD for these very small things.

SaberPro
07-11-2002, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith


Game menu would be great.

Doesn't help people like me who run a dedicated server.

Perhaps if they put in a FAQ?

I have a request from you:

Can you edit your original post and quote all the changes for 1.04 in that post (with link to Kenn's info) so people see it right away?

:)

Post edited :)

SeraphimII
07-11-2002, 09:55 AM
Lando- Wooo-Wooo-Wooo-Wooo-Wooo-Wooo-Wooo-Hoooooooo!





Woot! v1.4!

crazyplaya73
07-11-2002, 10:00 AM
seta g_forceregentime 100

Doesn't it also allow the light player to HEAL almost at will. I have mine at 185 and even at that level I have played against a few light Jedi's using the "run away and heal" tactic where the only way to kill them is by a one hit kill move or by challanging them to a duel so that they could not heal. Anywayz don't take it the wrong way. I'm just wondering if this is even more of a problem set at 100?

Keith[jolt]
07-11-2002, 10:03 AM
can't w8 :)

Althought we've been using the SDK mod on our servers for a while, making the patch official, shifts more gamers in :)

Yoda_623
07-11-2002, 10:04 AM
This patch sounds good. It gonna take some gettin used to though. I noticed that air lunge can still be used...or maybe i missed it.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by crazyplaya73


Doesn't it also allow the light player to HEAL almost at will. I have mine at 185 and even at that level I have played against a few light Jedi's using the "run away and heal" tactic where the only way to kill them is by a one hit kill move or by challanging them to a duel so that they could not heal. Anywayz don't take it the wrong way. I'm just wondering if this is even more of a problem set at 100?

I don't take anything personal.

I haven't noticed a problem. Experiment with it and see if it causes issues.

ryudom
07-11-2002, 10:09 AM
i wonder if they added any maps or skins like they did in 1.03? can't wait for this patch

ryudom
07-11-2002, 10:20 AM
also, now that the pull/bs combo isn't as effective (or so we hope) maybe that give the darkies less to complain about and hopefully the dark force population will grow. i like fighting darkies more the lighties such as myself

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 10:32 AM
I wonder what they mean by tommorow?

12 a.m.? :D

NerfYoda
07-11-2002, 10:37 AM
HooHah!!!!!! Can't wait to put it up on my server. :) Thanks, Kenn!

Keith[jolt]
07-11-2002, 10:46 AM
my guess is 6-7pm? so 2am in the UK ?

another long night i guess :)

Cal-Gon Gin
07-11-2002, 10:52 AM
Hmmm. I expect duels will take longer, but fixing the point is a good thing IMO--its all I've asked for. Spinning during a bs has been kinda fun tho ;)

We'll see what new wonders folks will discover to b1tch about here. :D

IronJedi Kaga
07-11-2002, 11:10 AM
Patch sound good so far. I do wish absorb were looked at but hey its nothing as bad as the ultra pull bsers so its not much of a problem.

As for the saber changes, the only other wish I would have on my list is to replace the medium special in mp with Tavions medium special from sp. Its so much better looking, and even better is that it has timing where you wont be pulled out of the animation into the regular jump animation if a person moves out of the way. But its a small thing anyways, overall this patch should be well worth the wait.

Cyris
07-11-2002, 11:15 AM
Well... Im sorry to all of you who think this is a good idea but it really isnt. Ive learned to master the game with the BS as it was there. I know there ae alot of assfighters out there but Im not one of them. I use it to my advantage but i do not run around with my back turned to people. As well... not being able to turn in your lunge is homo. It gives a sense of aim.

I think that making 1.04 will just give an advantage to the newbs because they attack by blue spam which will now be harder to defend without the use of the spinning backspin in yellow and red. Plus Ill lose all my demos... I dont like this chit at all..... :monkey4:

Caster
07-11-2002, 11:45 AM
Cyris, you can still use your back stab, you just can't spin with it anymore so the swing starts off early or hit the guy multiple times.

If anything, it's probably still possible to us the pull/backstab combo if people are that fast, they just have to compensate for not being able to spin and swinging early.

HellFyre69
07-11-2002, 11:55 AM
OMFG... I thought they werent going to realease the patch... And i was going today saying that they wont realse the patch.... JESUS!!! I guess no more pull +backstab whore uh...

HellFyre69
07-11-2002, 12:27 PM
1 more thing about 1.04 patch

I'm sorry if it's been ask before? but did they take out the attack when you jump + uppercut (Blue,light stance).. thx

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 01:28 PM
Isn't it Thursday Eastern time? :)

EZ-Lestat
07-11-2002, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by Cyris
As well... not being able to turn in your lunge is homo. It gives a sense of aim.

Err if you can turn in your lunge aiming becomes totally unnecessary.

I think that making 1.04 will just give an advantage to the newbs because they attack by blue spam which will now be harder to defend without the use of the spinning backspin in yellow and red. Plus Ill lose all my demos... I dont like this chit at all..... :monkey4:

a) Medium DFA
b) Forward Lunge
c) Heavy regular overhead slash
d) If they're "newbs" I'll assume they don't have absorb so... EVERY Darkside power. :)
e) The patch is to fix the damn spinning backspin you laud that's the easiest way to kill anyone now. :D

EZ-Lestat
07-11-2002, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by HellFyre69
1 more thing about 1.04 patch

I'm sorry if it's been ask before? but did they take out the attack when you jump + uppercut (Blue,light stance).. thx


It's been asked and answered... pls read before posting. :(

If 1.03a code is anything to go by, midair lunge is pretty much gone..

JaledDur
07-11-2002, 02:22 PM
I hope this manages to please at least half of whatever community is left.

Boreas
07-11-2002, 02:22 PM
Why the hell didn't they fix saber combat or kicking??

JAtM Trev
07-11-2002, 02:24 PM
Yeah midair lunge is gone.

Now i heard that kicking and throw received a nerfbalacing.

9pt kicks and 15 pts throws for more force power.

This would eliminate a majority of the spammers.

The question is, is this true?

Find out tomorrow I suppose.

Demise_SOK
07-11-2002, 02:37 PM
Well, I can't believe this. Totally unexpected- I thought the game would never be touched again by the company.

The changes sound good, unfortunately, it appears that auto-block rates haven't been lowered :(. I think the increase in Auto-blocks when you have out-manuvered your opponent is what makes duels so goddamn long and is the biggest change to saber combat from the original version.

For those who think that your going to get backstabbed less- dream on. If they haven't lowered damage on this move you will still be getting owned. The best players don't need to get you on the ground to land it on you, they can turn and initiate it before you can move.

IMO backstab should as much damage as a hit from a med twirl. But, maybe they changed it so the damage varies based on the saber style you are using without annoucing it.

I think that the new spam move we will see on the rise is force push then DFA, since I doubt many players will max both push and pull.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Demise_SOK
Well, I can't believe this. Totally unexpected- I thought the game would never be touched again by the company.

The changes sound good, unfortunately, it appears that auto-block rates haven't been lowered :(. I think the increase in Auto-blocks when you have out-manuvered your opponent is what makes duels so goddamn long and is the biggest change to saber combat from the original version.

For those who think that your going to get backstabbed less- dream on. If they haven't lowered damage on this move you will still be getting owned. The best players don't need to get you on the ground to land it on you, they can turn and initiate it before you can move.

IMO backstab should as much damage as a hit from a med twirl. But, maybe they changed it so the damage varies based on the saber style you are using without annoucing it.

I think that the new spam move we will see on the rise is force push then DFA, since I doubt many players will max both push and pull.

Nope.

It really does prevent the assfighting - I'm using the 1.04 unofficial patch/mod on my server, and it prevents it - come on my server and find out - no I'm not advertising the mod - just trying to give you a sense of what the official patch will be like.

The only time backstab may one hit kill is when person has saber down.

As for blocking, servers just need to do this:

seta g_saberghoul2collision 0 - Minimal auto-saber blocking.
seta g_sabertracesaberfirst 0 - Minimal auto-saber blocking.

V-tecc
07-11-2002, 03:34 PM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan
SWEEEEEEET!

No more excuses, play or play not, there is no whine!

Kaan

Hahaha.... *amused!

That was funny...

Haven't read further than to this post, so I'm sorry if what i ask/say already has been said.

Is there anything that can point to that there are any further changes done to the game?

Except for the ones in the pre-release statement...

Have they fixed these things:

-Saber blocking
-2 tap kick
-Freeze bug
-Drain/Heal/Grip ...etc

Or have they only done the changes that we have read about already?

NerfYoda
07-11-2002, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by V-tecc

-2 tap kick


That was to fix it so you dint kick backward when you just wanted to jump over a ledge or something. I'm glad they did that in 1.03 & hope it won't ger nerfed in <=1.04.

C'jais
07-11-2002, 04:02 PM
I agree Nerf, kicks are NO problem to execute.
And the 2tap kicks allows you to air-kick people, something that is truly cool.

If air-lunge is removed, I guess some people will have to rethink their spammage.

The backstab change might spell the doom for assfighters and cheap shots, but I'll just have to wait and see like the rest. Gonna be exciting....

I have fixed feelings about the blocking though; in duels the high block rate is the best thing since toasted toast, but in FFA's and CTF's the block rate is a chore. I just wish that they could do the blockrate not unlike a golden middle between 1.02 and 1.03.

And then there's the force balance issues, but I rarely play FF so I'm not that qualified to speak about that...

I'm just hoping this patch doesn't equals maximum kicking spammage. I really hope it doesn't...

JaledDur
07-11-2002, 04:22 PM
Well as long as they keep fixing only one abused move per patch... that leaves kicking as the move to spam.

As far as the assfighting goes, most of the "elite" players rely heavily on their superfast spinning midair backstabs to kill people. Now they say that this is just the fastest way to do it, and that they dont need to use it to win, and that may be true, but of course they never DO seem to win without using it...

As long as there is something that kills faster than something else and is easy to use.. well, the spammers will always be there. Hopeful though it will not become what assfighting is now.

I remember DFAers being shunned by almost everyone in the servers when that was the abused attack. What is really disturbing is how now its the opposite, if you aren't whirling around with your ass in the air you're now the n00b. It really is disconcerting and says a lot about the 'community'.

Face it, most of the community is immature and young, with all the character flaws that that entails. I'm not making a blanket statement saying that all young people act immature, but the bulk of this community IS. it may not be entirely visible on these boards, and certaily the CORE of the JK fan populace is very straight forward and honorable, but unfortunatley... a ton of people that actually play are just real jerks, and of course the lack of accountability that hiding behind a computer provides is just a bad game waiting to happen.

Things to abuse are what really make these asses shine (pun intended), and as soon as these stupid one hit kill moves are dealt with, I think we'll all find the gameplay and community stabilizing into something a bit less... childish, I guess.

V-tecc
07-11-2002, 04:25 PM
Dude... i know why they did it....

But, you use kick more often then you have to jump over some stupid edge... why not do the opposite?.. 2 tap = normal jump (if near an object)?

Originally posted by NerfYoda


That was to fix it so you dint kick backward when you just wanted to jump over a ledge or something. I'm glad they did that in 1.03 & hope it won't ger nerfed in <=1.04.

V-tecc
07-11-2002, 04:30 PM
You could air kick in 1.02 too....
Do it all the time... just tap again when in mid air and close to your opponent...



Originally posted by cjais
I agree Nerf, kicks are NO problem to execute.
And the 2tap kicks allows you to air-kick people, something that is truly cool.

If air-lunge is removed, I guess some people will have to rethink their spammage.

The backstab change might spell the doom for assfighters and cheap shots, but I'll just have to wait and see like the rest. Gonna be exciting....

I have fixed feelings about the blocking though; in duels the high block rate is the best thing since toasted toast, but in FFA's and CTF's the block rate is a chore. I just wish that they could do the blockrate not unlike a golden middle between 1.02 and 1.03.

And then there's the force balance issues, but I rarely play FF so I'm not that qualified to speak about that...

I'm just hoping this patch doesn't equals maximum kicking spammage. I really hope it doesn't...

C'jais
07-11-2002, 04:37 PM
Originally posted by V-tecc
You could air kick in 1.02 too....
Do it all the time... just tap again when in mid air and close to your opponent...

I stand corrected.

But I still can't see the problem in kicking people.... It's not that it's hard, so why the sad face?

V-tecc
07-11-2002, 04:43 PM
Sure its not hard... only harder... hence irritating and unnecessary...

It should be an option in the controls-menu: kick= 1tap/2tap..

But that wasn't my main problem, the worst thing was:

-Nerfed Red Stance = Ok... dfa.. but the rest?
-Nerfed Drain = way to nerfed
-Nerfed Grip = Why?? - Who had problems with that?

And the blocking... random blocks = less skill, well timed hits getting blocked was a big boo-boo.

Originally posted by cjais


I stand corrected.

But I still can't see the problem in kicking people.... It's not that it's hard, so why the sad face?

C'jais
07-11-2002, 04:55 PM
Originally posted by V-tecc
Sure its not hard... only harder... hence irritating and unnecessary...

It should be an option in the controls-menu: kick= 1tap/2tap..

But that wasn't my main problem, the worst thing was:

-Nerfed Red Stance = Ok... dfa.. but the rest?
-Nerfed Drain = way to nerfed
-Nerfed Grip = Why?? - Who had problems with that?

And the blocking... random blocks = less skill, well timed hits getting blocked was a big boo-boo.



I agree with you on the force issues, but why was red stance nerfed? Most people still think it's the cream of saberfighting.

I won't agree with you on the "random blocks", especially not since 1.02 was "You MIGHT block (if you're lucky) if facing your opponent perfectly. But don't flame me for this, and turn this thread into another v2 vs v3 argument.

JaledDur
07-11-2002, 04:58 PM
Interesting isn't it?

I like blocking, it makes me feel like the game is more true to what I believe saber fights should be. But I dont like that it takes so many heavy hits to kill someone, and I don't like the fact that the blocking has almost nothing to do with the skill of the player. I think the nerfing of that and the other stances is what has helped the one hit wonders become such a nuissance.

V-tecc
07-11-2002, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by cjais


I agree with you on the force issues, but why was red stance nerfed? Most people still think it's the cream of saberfighting.

I won't agree with you on the "random blocks", especially not since 1.02 was "You MIGHT block (if you're lucky) if facing your opponent perfectly. But don't flame me for this, and turn this thread into another v2 vs v3 argument.

I agree... just want to give some last words :)

What's more skill full?
Almost no blocking... vs Random blocks?

"You MIGHT block (if you're lucky)" <-My point exactly... less luck, more skill.

This means that I can hit you with a perfect hit.. and you can still be "lucky" enough to have the game block it for you.... fair? - Naah..

And as for: "Most people still think it's the cream of saber fighting"
There was no way to spam the red stance (without the DFA that is.)... It was slow, yet when used skillfully... deadly... So if you hit and miss.. you leave your self open. - This means that you had to be pretty good at it to excel with it.

Not like the other stances: "Hack him to death... may the luckiest man win! ... yes .. may the power of the block be with you, dude" :=)

But you're right... lets discuss 1.04 (Hope there is more fixed then what we know already)

[WHM]Maynard
07-11-2002, 05:33 PM
I had no problem with the game as it was. Infact I just started playing again after about a month long absence. The new patch should be fun though it'll be good to adapt to a different side of play although people will find problems again and whore them out and other people will just whine. Too bad they aren't adding any new ctf levels :mad:
Oh and I just checked the date and it isn't April 1st so maybe the post wasn't just a joke lol.

Aoshi
07-11-2002, 07:07 PM
too bad the midair lunge is gone. it was a viable move if you just dropped like a rock regardless of lunging or not. for everything else, though i am extremely excited. no more ghetto spinners that hit you like 5 times with the backsweep. i'm also very glad that the damage of that move was slightly nerfed, but i'm curious if they will ever raise the damage of lightsabres themselves. i dont think it's very fair when a full secondary shot from the flechette will do more damage than a sabre strike. Also have the medium special and DFA been tweaked or are they still one hit kills? they really need to remain how they are, because the amount of exposure to counters is extremely high when executing those 2 moves; therefore, they should still be 1 hit kills. anyways that's just my opinion

<>Phant0m<>
07-11-2002, 07:12 PM
Ohh my prayers have been answered!!!
Im so glad that maybe we will finnally see true skill in the servers, its something that ive been waiting for since the games release!!!
I myself have been training so hard in honorable combat that im sure that people will see me for what i have earned.
Backstab was the only move that killed me more or less (9 out of 10 i would counter it) and its seems that me NOT learning to do it like the rest has paid off as my saber skills will be FAR above the EX-assfighters skill level.


p.s.
/me starts praying for 100 million under my pillow tomorow morning... :cool:

C'jais
07-11-2002, 07:30 PM
Regarding the nerf of the air-lunge:

I have no problem in seeing the average air-lunge removed, soooo many "skilled" players relied on that bug to hit people, no fun.

However, there was no harm in the floating bug. It was a bug though, and I think the devs were in their good right to remove that bug. But it didn't hurt anyone, quite the contrary actually.
But, it was quite irritating to see your enemy fall of the edge and then recieve no damage at all, while you fall off and got splattered.

I just fear that the kick will be the new trick to getting around the blocking: 20 damage and no way to avoid it besides dodging like hell.

leXX
07-11-2002, 07:40 PM
Even though it was a bug, it was the only way to stop yourself from dying from a great height! I think it should at least be replaced with something like: force push being able to slow your decent, after all, were supposed to be Jedi ffs.

Mercen4ry
07-11-2002, 07:49 PM
Originally posted by lexx
Even though it was a bug, it was the only way to stop yourself from dying from a great height! I think it should at least be replaced with something like: force push being able to slow your decent, after all, were supposed to be Jedi ffs.

If you roll right after you land, you usually only take about 2/3 to a 1/4 of the fall damage, randomly. This, IMO, is what they intended for you to do to "stick" landings.

For example, leap off the top of FFA ns streets at full health without rolling. The result? About 4 health. Then try it with a roll just as you land, and you health bar should only drop to about 60-40 from full. Neat, eh? :)

leXX
07-11-2002, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Mercen4ry


If you roll right after you land, you usually only take about 2/3 to a 1/4 of the fall damage, randomly. This, IMO, is what they intended for you to do to "stick" landings.

For example, leap off the top of FFA ns streets at full health without rolling. The result? About 4 health. Then try it with a roll just as you land, and you health bar should only drop to about 60-40 from full. Neat, eh? :)

True enough but this requires good timing, miss by a little and SPLAT!

Mercen4ry
07-11-2002, 08:05 PM
Dunno, I rarely miss the timing on this, but maybe it's just me? :confused:

Yeah, it does require good timing... but it is a solution, and at the very least I have had no trouble with it. That force push solution is something I would love to see as well, but knowing the current Quake 3 physics engine, people would probably find some way to abuse it. :rolleyes:

Merc out. :fett:

C'jais
07-11-2002, 08:19 PM
I don't know if you can do this already lexx, but here goes anyway to those that don't know....

To roll when you hit the ground:

Hold down crouch when you're in the air and hold down the directional key you wish to roll in. For example, I hold down crouch and forward and turn my mouse in the direction i wish to roll in (all in the air), then when I hit the ground, I'll roll instantly.
Someone please correct if this is wrong.

QuietSith
07-11-2002, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by lexx


True enough but this requires good timing, miss by a little and SPLAT!

Isn't the entire game about timing moves?

Mercen4ry
07-11-2002, 08:58 PM
Aye cjais, that's why I'm a tad confuzèd where timing is concerned. And thanks for clearing that up; I've been playing one too many games of Warcraft 3, so I tend to blank out from time to time. :rolleyes:

Orangina_Rouge
07-11-2002, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by cjais

I just fear that the kick will be the new trick to getting around the blocking: 20 damage and no way to avoid it besides dodging like hell.

Exactly what i think
With the insane blocking rate it will happen very soon
And of course if raven patch another time this game they ll just say : "hey this move is is spammed ....let s nerf it"
While the true problem is saber blocking system
It should be like for blocking bolts and saber throw ( a saber midair is better than handled ......it s a known fact :rolleyes: ) : Block 100 % ( for defence 3 of course ;) ) forward arc if u don t attack and zero if u do or are attacked from flanks or rear ......this ll teach ppl how to actually have REALISTIC saber fights and to block

{SKX}AG
07-11-2002, 10:39 PM
Ok I have been modding JK2 since it came out and all changes were aimed balancing the swordplay. The mod was not publicized, but it was up most of the time on our SKX servers.

Right now it seems that 1.04 is virtually the same as 1.03a. I must note that 1.03a sucked quite a lot in some points.

Specifically:
Back roll %30 percent shorter.
You run backward slower.
You slow down even more if you are doing a move in heavier stances (a bit for yellow and a lot for red).
Tracing sucked a lot due to their lag-reducing optimization, great number of hits didnt score right.
Yellow has significantly shorter range.

There's more but i cant remember right now. It was pretty sad even considering fixed backstab and faster yellow spins and people didnt want to play that until problems were dealt with. All of this was fixed manually by me in my code, however i am afraid that some (if not all) of these issues can make their way to 1.04.

Another question for all:
When the source for 1.04 is gonna be relesed so the "minor adjustment" can be done?

Orangina_Rouge
07-11-2002, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by {SKX}AG
Another question for all:
When the source for 1.04 is gonna be relesed so the "minor adjustment" can be done?

U mean total rework of saber system ?? :D

C'jais
07-11-2002, 11:02 PM
Hehe... like I said earlier this might just be the "Black belt patch" for "Karate Knight 2 - Dojo Outcast: the kicking game"..... But hell if I want that.

AG - if the patch does as you say, then the devs haven't mentioned a lot things. Those are quite some changes to sabercombat you've got there.

Overall, I think that the sabers could do with some more damage.

Orangina_Rouge
07-11-2002, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by cjais
Hehe... like I said earlier this might just be the "Black belt patch" for "Karate Knight 2 - Dojo Outcast: the kicking game"..... But hell if I want that.


Lol excellent :D

It would also be the "flying cutter" patch cause of the throw+pull combo ( if u didn t figure this before pull break the guard when the anim for opponent defending it plays ....now figure the combo :rolleyes: )

In fact if raven doesn t really tweak saber system, we will never actually saber fight with slashes :p

Bah i guess they ll just get rid of kick and throw in next patch :rolleyes:

NK_Zephorath
07-11-2002, 11:13 PM
I agree with cjais.
I played an ff dueling game of jk2++ in beta 3, and there was this one kick spammer. He was destroying everyone with his kick script, knocking them over and red slashing them. If anyone tried to drain, he would use absorb. If he got hit, he would heal. Anyway, I beat him, but it was really, really, hard. Now, if the damage of sabers had been higher, I would've killed him much more easily, because if he had have missed me once with his kick script, he'd be dead.

I'm not bitching about having a challenge, but it was too easy for someone to use kick extensively and beat everyone.

Higher saber damage is the answer.
In the latest build of jk2++ (that isn't public d/l yet) we increased it. Saberists can now compete against gunners (if you're good enough) due to high damage.

High damage for all!

RedHerring
07-11-2002, 11:20 PM
I also wish that saber damage was alot higher.

Especially when someone is spamming a backstab in the middle of a group of people, even a direct downward hack from the red stance doesn't kill him and allows him to heal and run away.

It makes me very angry.

Orangina_Rouge
07-11-2002, 11:28 PM
I ve seen this so-said ( i was one to say it ...i admit ) script kiddie

But honestly after seeing him do it, i tried to make my way kicking others during the rest of the game
And honestly i can tell u there is no great skill to kick efficiently
So of course if it s riskless to close in on an opponent ( wich it is actually with the saber block system ) then kick will indeed rule

Also changing the damage will do nothing cause the insane guard is still there

What s need to be done ( i will repeat myself another time ) along with upping saber dmg is tweak the blocking so that sabers are blocked the same way as blaster bolts and THROW ( explain me why this saber attack is blocked like a bolt ) .........no rear guard, no flank guard, only reliable front guard and that s if u don t slash

This way kickers could dodged sideways and u could slash at their flanks to counter them ( man this reminds me kendo lessons :D )

But Alas, this will not happen cause Raven think everyone loves the crappy 1.03 blocking system with lots of blocks from all angles and lots of parries ..........mark my words : prepare to see a kick fest soon :rolleyes:

Jah Warrior
07-11-2002, 11:39 PM
this may be wishful thinking and i dunno if anyone else has mentioned it yet but do you think they'll add any more maps, to make it an incentive to get the patch?

fingers crossed

Jah

C'jais
07-11-2002, 11:46 PM
Now well, I was the one starting this kickwar speculation, but I still believe it is possible to have a good saberfight, even in 1.03 it was possible to have loads of fun regardless of all the newbies running the backstab show.

Yes, I tend to think that kicks will be more prominent in 1.04 due to BS-nerfing, but that is not to say that there won't be any "proper" players left. I, for one, doesn't kick spam, and damn well won't follow this infantile tyranny of players choosing only the absolutely most powerful moves in the game and then RELY on them like there's no tomorrow. That means I won't begin to kickspam in 1.04 either, just because it might be the better move.

Look at what happened to those relying on backstabs: They will get nerfed in 1.04 and that's their own damn fault. I knew that this backstab party wasn't going to last and neither is this uncoming(?) kickfest. Mods, or simple servercommands, will come that reduces kicks to 1 point of damage like some mods already have done.

I know this sounds aloof and quite condemning of everyone except me own, holy self - but it isn't meant that way, just play nice in the upcoming 1.04.

C'jais
07-11-2002, 11:49 PM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
this may be wishful thinking and i dunno if anyone else has mentioned it yet but do you think they'll add any more maps, to make it an incentive to get the patch?

fingers crossed

Jah

I don't think they will jah, but one can always hope.
Besides, I can't imagine anyone wanting to decide between playing 3 different versions of a game. I suspect that all 1.03'ers will upgrade and maybe even some old-school 1.02'ers. That still leaves a solid core of determined 1.02'ers who will still play the old game.

Orangina_Rouge
07-11-2002, 11:58 PM
Well that is the problem cause Raven is unwilling to go back with their "so-good" SP blocking system

One consequence was the Backstab : it s now nerfed
One Other ( less known ....but it will be used a lot now Backstab is dead ) is Throw + pull ......will it get nerfed ??
And now the Kick will be another ....will it get nerfed too ??

So what i foresee is that even if those 2 moves left to go around the uber-stupid guard requires skill ( they do .....much more than pull + backstab ), they will get nerfed one day or another either by some modders or by Raven
So instead of facing the true cause of these moves being exploited ppl will just choose to ignore the cause as well as the consequences ( wich will be nerfed ) ???
Well if so then i can foresee a brief life for the already dying JK2, cause ppl will not enjoy for long fighting totally random saber battles nor using only guns ( there is better games wich have better ones )

So to conclude this : if saber play dies then this game is dead too .......hope ppl and raven will wake up soon to see that saber isn t well alive :rolleyes:

TheRock
07-12-2002, 12:00 AM
We've been running the MOD of the 1.04 patch for a while. Glad to see the official version released.


I agree witht he above though, it makes Kicking the *unblockable move*. I have a feeling that you can pretty much take the posts from 1.03 about assfighters, and replace that word with kick-whores, and just repost them, as this is what the next problem will be.

Funny thing is, one only needs to think logically about kicking to see the correction:

If I run up to you and kick you with your saber up....wouldnt you block it? I know this is the same issue with the assfighting...someone runs up and backstabs me while Im facing them with saber up and I cant block it....BUT MY GOD, you can block BULLETS....

At the very LEAST, kicking someone with thier saber up should incur ATLEAST 50% DAMAGE based on what stance they are in. Say, (guessing) heavy saber strike damage is 50 (I havent got a clue really). So, I run up and kick you and you are in heavy stance, not swinging or moving, saber out and ready, facing directly at you....you should take 25 damage. After all, your basically kicking my LIGHT SABER...you SHOULD take damage.


Otherwise, its great.

Lord Sokar
07-12-2002, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by cjais
I suspect that all 1.03'ers will upgrade and maybe even some old-school 1.02'ers. That still leaves a solid core of determined 1.02'ers who will still play the old game.

One can only hope. I'm the poster child for 1.02, but it's getting mighty thin on our servers. I'm going to give this a try, but if it has all the epeleptic-seisure-enducing blocking, I've got to get the hell away from this game.

Has it been confirmed that a client side AND server side version of 1.04 will be released today? Many of the changes that really ruined the game after 1.02 were client side changes that no server-side mod in the world would have corrected.

Any clue?

Jyt-Pon Dai'el
07-12-2002, 12:49 AM
Originally posted by TheRock

Funny thing is, one only needs to think logically about kicking to see the correction:

If I run up to you and kick you with your saber up....wouldnt you block it? I know this is the same issue with the assfighting...someone runs up and backstabs me while Im facing them with saber up and I cant block it....BUT MY GOD, you can block BULLETS....

At the very LEAST, kicking someone with thier saber up should incur ATLEAST 50% DAMAGE based on what stance they are in. Say, (guessing) heavy saber strike damage is 50 (I havent got a clue really). So, I run up and kick you and you are in heavy stance, not swinging or moving, saber out and ready, facing directly at you....you should take 25 damage. After all, your basically kicking my LIGHT SABER...you SHOULD take damage.


Otherwise, its great.

I totally agree with this. You should have to think twice before sticking your leg out in front of a Jedi's ready lightsaber. Kicks should only be effective in the right circumstances, like when you parry a blow or win a saber-lock. Of course, you should be able to do them any time you want, but you'll have to accept the risk.

This could also be an advantage if you're fighting a gun user, since there's no chance of chopping off your own leg.

Master Hamlet
07-12-2002, 01:00 AM
call me a newbie if you must, but i have never known jk2 on any patch other than 1.03, sooooooo i dont really know which i prefer, if any. i dont understand most of the talk of the blocking system because im unaware of what the former blocking system was like. but, i do play this game a hell of a lot, and i know what ur saying about kick being gay, and bs being whored to death, and even the throw+pull combo. if the new blocking system sucks so much u're left with two main options.


re-install jk2, and switch back to the 1.02 patch, and refuse to play in any other games, and hope that peer pressure will force everyone back to 1.02

OR

someone make an official petition, one stating what the gamers think the problem is with it, and have everyone on this forum sign it, and spam the lobby gettin others to sign it. it never hurts to try?

anyway those are just my thoughts, btw i would love it if sum1 explained the major diffences between 1.02 and .03

|DEM|Mosleg
07-12-2002, 01:11 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith
Am I the only person with overwhelmed excitement here?

:confused:

NOPE! :D

I'm about to cream my pants, err... you know. :eek:

|DEM|Mosleg
07-12-2002, 01:16 AM
Wahhh!!! I used to have fun molesting those L4m3rz trying to pull backstab. :mad:

QuietSith
07-12-2002, 01:25 AM
Kicking was much worse in 1.02 than it is in 1.03 / 1.04.

Orangina_Rouge
07-12-2002, 01:53 AM
Originally posted by QuietSith
Kicking was much worse in 1.02 than it is in 1.03 / 1.04.

It was the same except u had to tap only once on jump button
The problem is not here Quietsith
Try to look at the facts before responding blindly

The trouble is that in 1.02 there was risk to use Pull, Kick or whatever close attack cause basically u could get slashed ( i don t count the number of times i died while pulling a moron slashing wildly just at that moment )
Now with the utter Crappy invincible guard there is no risk to use such attacks, u could pull all u wanted in 1.03 never being hit while doing it, same for kick and i don t talk about the infamous rear guard after DFA

Now that pull is gone, there is kick left and imo it was a pretty bad move to get rid of pull and backstab considering the other things raven could have done
Instead of making those moves risky again ( by tweaking the guard ) they just crippled them so they are useless .......much like the way they did to Drain and Heal
The next time what will they render useless ?? This game already have not much moves .....don t get rid of all of them Raven

NK_Zephorath
07-12-2002, 02:01 AM
If you keep nerfing everything that does damage, you won't have any moves left. Kick was not much worse in 1.02, not at all. In 1.02, getting close enough to kick meant you were going to get slashed, like Orangina said, it was all because of the blocking system.

QuietSith
07-12-2002, 02:07 AM
Since mods are being developed to 'resolve these issues' why is all this discussion taking place in a 'patch' thread which has nothing to do with 'fixing said issues'?

If such mods will fix 'said issues' .. what's left to discuss?

Orangina_Rouge
07-12-2002, 02:10 AM
My response was not unrespectful
I just said that before saying that something was worse ( or better ) than someting else, especially without arguments, you should consider all of the tweaks made to the game

Now if u can t bear that then don t talk to me ........i don t see why i should argue if you can t explain your point of view calmly

As for the patch, if we want those tweaks in it it s cause mods are not supposed to fix the basic gameplay ( i hate that excuse for devs to waste a game ) and cause a lot of competitive players want to do ladders .......and ladders use generally the official patch and not mods

jarek
07-12-2002, 02:12 AM
The patch is now on the lucasarts website. The link is below:

http://support.lucasarts.com/patches/jedioutcast2.htm

QuietSith
07-12-2002, 02:12 AM
""The back-flip off a wall/opponent was changed into a double-tap. This was mostly done because it was frustrating to try to get over a small lip and end up back-flipping off of it. In combat, you can still kick someone and knock them down with this move, but you have to do a double-tap. Also, it was noticed that the strong style was completely vulnerable to this move because of the long wind-up time of it's attacks. A somewhat skilled jump-kicker could always knock down a strong style user (often you could not see the kick coming). So the jump-kick was made to not *knock down* a strong user who is in the middle of a swing. It still does damage and you still flip off them. "

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=54081

1.03 kick changes.

It was worse in 1.02.

NwO_2k_Mutt
07-12-2002, 02:13 AM
My word this thread has struck a nerve eh ? If some of the people played as much as they bitched and whine, they wouldnt have to complain becuase they would have more skill !

Baron Fitz
07-12-2002, 02:14 AM
:holosid: "Wipe them out. All of them."

Well well. I think I might actually give this one a try. I haven't played multiplayer for over a month now since the Rise of the Assfighters.© When I discovered that I was stooping to their tactics as it was the only way to get around that dang saber block, I darn near committed seppuku in shame. I went back to the divinely inspired version (v1.02), but there just weren't any servers running it in sufficient quantities, so I resorted to getting my saber jollies from playing single player and spawning in legions of reborn to whoop up on.

Perhaps Raven could take a cue from the old JK, where you were more effective with blocking if you had your crosshairs on the opponent's face. That would actually add some modicum of skill to the whole thing.

I see wondrous things about servers running with the saber blocking tuned down, but I never saw it advertised on the server lists, and it's a bit much to wade through all the details using Gamespy to see what the cvars are set to....

I guess we'll see how it goes.

QuietSith
07-12-2002, 02:15 AM
Originally posted by NwO_2k_Mutt
My word this thread has struck a nerve eh ? If some of the people played as much as they bitched and whine, they wouldnt have to complain becuase they would have more skill !

That's probably the wisest thing I've read.

I'm personally done with this thread.

I got exactly what I wanted in a patch.

I'm happy. :)

Orangina_Rouge
07-12-2002, 02:21 AM
I know these changes quietsith

What i point out is that even if the move is harder to perform, it s still riskless to do now
Even with SD it s something to fear, i ve seen some kickers wich use it over and over once u re down with the first one, so with the normal blocking of 1.03 it s really riskless to perform a kick on someone else

But i waiting forward to say "i told ya so" ;)

NK_Zephorath
07-12-2002, 02:29 AM
Welp

I was a hardcore saberist in 1.02.
All I did was play on duel servers, and occasionally FFA and TDM. I was also a heavy stance whore. I didn't learn it from anyone else, I just learned to use it very well at the time of release.

I never had a problem with kick. If someone was coming in to kick, you could either slash them, or roll away. Not a big deal at all.

Darth Kaan
07-12-2002, 02:35 AM
Installed 1.04 earlier and just finished a Saber only NF FFA match to 40 kills with four friends. It plays exactly like the U104 mod.

Kaan

Lord Sokar
07-12-2002, 02:43 AM
Where's the damn server updates? Anyone?

QuietSith
07-12-2002, 02:53 AM
My very last post on this thread:

http://www.worthplaying.com/article.php?sid=4710

[WHM]Maynard
07-12-2002, 03:09 AM
Don't download the new patch right away. If you weren't around last time you wouldn't know that hardly any servers had it on until a week after it was released causing you to not be able to play in most games.

technobot
07-12-2002, 03:16 AM
good news I'm still the sh!t at JK2, it just takes me longer to kill people now. hehe, j/k :)

The whiners have gotten their way, it takes way to long to kill the other guy now... many of the assfighters you guys cried about are still some of the better duelists on the net however get used to 5 minute saber fights, lots of kicking, it's really lame, but that's just my IMHO.

I played this one guy who used to own me in 1.03 (mind you he hated "throw whores" and was an anti-assfighter, he just had mad dueling skillz)

Well guess what? I kicked his ass badly in our first attempt at 1.04. It doesn't make me awesome, it's just he can't throw his saber anymore (impeccable throw aim) and since you don't have to worry about having a saber thrown at you if you start combos from out of range, it's just running around like chickens with their heads cut off, fighting with glowsticks, how gay is that?

btw, I won the FFA with 40 kills in 20 minutes, that's actually pretty bad for me. I won all my duels. I'm not saying I'm awesome, just before any of the whiners responds with "Well he's just bitter because they nerfed pull/backsweep" well you're f@@king right I am bitter but at the same time I can win without it. It just makes the game way too much longer and all the good players (myself included) we're literally kicking the sh!t out of the rest of the players.

Darth Kaan
07-12-2002, 03:17 AM
Originally posted by [WHM]Maynard
Don't download the new patch right away. If you weren't around last time you wouldn't know that hardly any servers had it on until a week after it was released causing you to not be able to play in most games.

No problem for me since I run my own server. Already played a few FFA matches with 1.04 :)

Kaan

Darth Kaan
07-12-2002, 03:23 AM
Originally posted by technobot
The whiners have gotten their way, it takes way to long to kill the other guy now... many of the assfighters you guys cried about are still some of the better duelists on the net however get used to 5 minute saber fights, lots of kicking, it's really lame, but that's just my IMHO.

btw, I won the FFA with 40 kills in 20 minutes, that's actually pretty bad for me. I won all my duels. I'm not saying I'm awesome, just before any of the whiners responds with "Well he's just bitter because they nerfed pull/backsweep" well you're f@@king right I am bitter but at the same time I can win without it. It just makes the game way too much longer and all the good players (myself included) we're literally kicking the sh!t out of the rest of the players.


Okay, Im curious, so I have to ask...

If saber fights take at least 5 min as you say, how did you get 40 kills in 20 min?

Kaan

technobot
07-12-2002, 03:26 AM
I dueled two good players, 3 minutes + 4 minutes (7 minutes)

I dueled three sh!tty players, 1 minute + 1 minute + 1.5 minute (we're now at 10.5 minutes)

I had 35 kills in 9.5 minutes, of which about 18 were DFA into the middle of a group, which even I can admit are lucky kills.

It takes too long because on a smaller board, or if it's just one on one in a non duel situation, it's just me and the other guy whacking away with our bat sabers.

shmacdonald's
07-12-2002, 03:29 AM
wonder why raven didnt do anything about kicking. maybe they wanted to give something for the cheap players to hold on to. whatever the reason, get ready for tons of kick spammers, which in some ways are worse than anyone who uses backstab tactics. there's some discussion about people being able to counter kicks, maybe thats because they've never played against someone who knows how to get that kick in, no matter how many times you dodge or roll or slash or whatever. a good kicker wont blindly run into you all the time, they'll watch your movements and confuse you, so you roll when they want you to and attack when they want you to, leaving you nice and open for some 3-in-a-row chain kicks.

usually i'd say that raven wouldnt release a patch to solve this kicking stuff, but since they took care of all those extremely cool backstabing techniques, i think there's hope that this game will really be balanced and victories will rely solely on lightsaber skill, a mastery of all the combos you can do with it, and blocking and evading skills.

one question, can you still roll into your opponent, force pull, and trip him/her in this patch?

technobot
07-12-2002, 03:33 AM
you can pull the guy down, it's just a lot harder. if you played the U104 neo-patch you'll know what I'm talking about. the victim seems to get up a lot faster but that just might be a misconception...

MrYepp
07-12-2002, 03:38 AM
shmacdonaldwald, please stfu about kicking


People being bitter about "cheap moves" being pulled on them are the reason why this game has become a "5 minutes-per-kill" newbie joke. So lets say Raven nerfs kick in 1.05, and then what's next? Moves that are more effective than others ARE going to be used, and complaining about them just ruins the community. A FPS game that allegedly takes 5 minutes to the kill is really not worth the money. Sometimes I feel jealous of Warez-kiddies, because they didn't have to pay for this slow game.

NK_Zephorath
07-12-2002, 03:42 AM
Originally posted by MrYepp
shmacdonaldwald, please stfu about kicking


People being bitter about "cheap moves" being pulled on them are the reason why this game has become a "5 minutes-per-kill" newbie joke. So lets say Raven nerfs kick in 1.05, and then what's next? Moves that are more effective than others ARE going to be used, and complaining about them just ruins the community. A FPS game that allegedly takes 5 minutes to the kill is really not worth the money. Sometimes I feel jealous of Warez-kiddies, because they didn't have to pay for this slow game.

That's why saber damage is being increased for jk2++. When people have low damaging sabers, they seek other ways to kill faster, which ends up creating spam. Now, when people have sabers that can actually kill things, there is no need for a DFA, or kick, or any kind of spam.

High damage for all!
(Course now we need it updated for 1.04 but hey :D )

C'jais
07-12-2002, 03:44 AM
"Karate Knight 2 - Dojo outcast, now with Black Belt upgrade!!!"

Ahem..... It appears I might be proven wrong yet....

I'll just inform you all that a medium backstab now does 10(!) damage if you face your enemy and block. about 40 ish if you happen to have your saber turned off..... Oh, and I blocked a backstab completely if I was standing in the outside of the (now non-turnable) swing.... Good god!!!

ASSFIGHTERS REJOICE! YOU HAVE TO LEARN KICKING SKILLS NOW!!!

*cough* Or real saber skills, though I assume the first....

You have a *very* low chance of knocking someone down from pull/push, and if you do, they'll get up faster as someone already said here.

Alt-fire on repeater and flechette takes 15 ammo, though I think they did all along 1.03. Am I wrong here?

Hmmm... what else.... The stances don't appear changed in any way, except for the backstab and... oh, yeah mid-air lunge is *COMPLETELY* gone as many had already speculated.

No change to blocking, though I'm used to it by now... are you?

technobot
07-12-2002, 03:48 AM
Thank you MrYepp... I know a lot of you have already played and PLEASE TELL ME WITH TWO GOOD PLAYERS DUELING, ESPECIALLY WITH THROWING DISABLED ON A FFA DUEL, THAT IT DOESN'T TAKE A LONG TIME. Sorry for caps, but you see my point. Don't give me any of this "well you're just playing sh!tty players nonsense", that's the whole point... what I've found is a newbie will charge in at me, and I just side-step and slice him to death a bit at a time, fights over in 1-2 minutes. A GOOD player takes considerbaly longer because he won't run in and I have to pick my spots carefully. Strategic? Kind of. Boring? Definitely. I'm sorry, dueling for 5-10 minutes doesn't give me an adrenaline rush, it hurts my mouse hand :)

And I agree with MrYepp about kicking... sure it's cheap but a lot of you can't fathom the fact that the majority of the players don't have the time to player for hours at a time, and want to have fun in the 10 - 20 minutes allotted before their wives start screaming at them to fix the deck or mow the damn lawn. I'm not the greatest player but there's tons worse than me and they're going to have an even worse time because in those 20 minutes, they'll get in around 4 duels, and the board is over... this is just my opinion, I don't flame you guys for having yours so don't flame me for having mine.

It's funny, I see everyone saying how great the patch is (I'll agree it fixes certain things) but no one has disagreed that it takes way too long to kill people with the saber. Even the guys I was playing with agreed; we disagreed over pull/backsweep (they hated it, they're entitled to that opinion) but we all thought that in many ways this was a step backwards...

How about this? Changing the damage system to 1.02, or just give all the styles a boost across the board? That might help counter the bat-saber effect...

One of you guys already said it, but the trend for whiners has been: 1.02 = DFA Spammers are Gay! 1.03 = Pull/Backsweep Spammers are Gay! 1.04 = Kick Spammers are Gay! Sorry guys, just for me, 5 minute saber fights = lame.

FlashFearless
07-12-2002, 03:54 AM
I just think manual blocking would be cool. Didn't somebody say something once about there being a +block key you could bind if the server had it enabled?
I think that's the real answer. All the autoblocking basically gives people free skill.

NK_Zephorath
07-12-2002, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by cjais
"Karate Knight 2 - Dojo outcast, now with Black Belt upgrade!!!"

Ahem..... It appears I might be proven wrong yet....

I'll just inform you all that a medium backstab now does 10(!) damage if you face your enemy and block. about 40 ish if you happen to have your saber turned off..... Oh, and I blocked a backstab completely if I was standing in the outside of the (now non-turnable) swing.... Good god!!!

ASSFIGHTERS REJOICE! YOU HAVE TO LEARN KICKING SKILLS NOW!!!

*cough* Or real saber skills, though I assume the first....

You have a *very* low chance of knocking someone down from pull/push, and if you do, they'll get up faster as someone already said here.

Alt-fire on repeater and flechette takes 15 ammo, though I think they did all along 1.03. Am I wrong here?

Hmmm... what else.... The stances don't appear changed in any way, except for the backstab and... oh, yeah mid-air lunge is *COMPLETELY* gone as many had already speculated.

No change to blocking, though I'm used to it by now... are you?

The alt fires for repeater and flechette took 25 ammo in 1.03.

technobot
07-12-2002, 03:57 AM
Hey Flash, I think that's a great idea. I think many of the guys here would agree auto-blocking is part of the problem and not the solution.

MrYepp
07-12-2002, 04:00 AM
Zephorath, I already played JK2++ and I do like the new damage system, it gives saberists enough edge vs. gunners, and saber vs. saber is still quick and exciting even with the super-beefed up 1.03 blocking.

For those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, go to www.wdonline.com and check it out. There are a lot of changes, but regarding sabering, It boosted up saber damage so blue is a 2 hit kill, and medium a almost-1-hit kill, and red 1-hit kill. It sounds ridiculous, but after trying it, it's easy to see how it's an improvement.

First off, it will get rid of all those "gun-spammr-l4m3rs-let-us-duel-with-our-1337-glowsticks" people, because a saberist will be able to kill a gunner. The reason why sabers weren't killing gunners in 1.02-1.04 is because it doesnt do enough damage. With the saber, you can deal a hefty amount of damage, but it doesn't do it FAST enough.






base JK2 will always suck :p

C'jais
07-12-2002, 04:09 AM
Techno,

Maybe this is how Raven envisioned the game?

Maybe they meant for the game that everyone was skilled enough to handle an oncoming saberattack and wanted epic duels like singleplayer? Maybe they really wanted drawn-out duels like in the movies? I dunno..... Raven works in mysterious ways indeed....

I agree that the blocking is a bit over the top, although I think the lower saber damage is the real sinner. Make every hit count, don't introduce more 'em, that's what I say.
More saber damage, no less blocking.

BTW, thanks for correcting me Zephorath, maybe the gunners will appreciate this change? Or maybe they'll just shrug and feel no change at all? I dunno here either, I'm no gunner.

SizzleChest
07-12-2002, 04:09 AM
It seems that the ass masters are complaining about the removal of the back swing because it increases the length of a duel. This is a valid point and not a whine. People who care about this game and want to see it develop into a solid stable community make constructive criticisms. The problem is that Raven has never done a good job with the light saber's damage. In any Star Wars movie or novel, a hit with a light saber nearly always results in a limb being severed or death. It cuts through metal and, until the New Jedi Order, had no counter in the way of armor. Ass attacks aren't really an answer to the problem and show that Raven doesn't always think clearly about balance issues. 1.03 was never tested conceptually or in multi-player play. If I can kick somebody to death, why would I use a light saber? In fact, why does any Jedi use a light saber? Instead of prolonging the saber fights and make them tedious as some players have indicated already, why not just up the saber damage and make the blocking a little less automatic? Force players to use skill in blocking.

On a related note, it seems that JD II has done very well from a sales point of view. Lucas has hit or miss record with releasing good SW games. I'd hate for Raven and Lucas to drop the ball by not adding on arena expansions and improving the light saber fighting to include more moves and more complexity. I think fans have shown a willingness to support the game by buying it and generating mods for it. I hope that Lucas will show the same dedication and work more deligently to test their patches for balance and playability and to continue with new add-ons.

NK_Zephorath
07-12-2002, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by MrYepp
Zephorath, I already played JK2++ and I do like the new damage system, it gives saberists enough edge vs. gunners, and saber vs. saber is still quick and exciting even with the super-beefed up 1.03 blocking.

For those of you that don't know what I'm talking about, go to www.wdonline.com and check it out. There are a lot of changes, but regarding sabering, It boosted up saber damage so blue is a 2 hit kill, and medium a almost-1-hit kill, and red 1-hit kill. It sounds ridiculous, but after trying it, it's easy to see how it's an improvement.

First off, it will get rid of all those "gun-spammr-l4m3rs-let-us-duel-with-our-1337-glowsticks" people, because a saberist will be able to kill a gunner. The reason why sabers weren't killing gunners in 1.02-1.04 is because it doesnt do enough damage. With the saber, you can deal a hefty amount of damage, but it doesn't do it FAST enough.






base JK2 will always suck :p

Nonononono blue is a 3 hit, yellow is 2, and red is supposed to be 1 hit but currently isn't because you need to do an overhead slash where it hits twice to do full damage. We're going to tweak that for sure (I think.)

Go here for the JK2++ forums, all feedback and constructive criticism is welcome.


http://forums.wdonline.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=10

Edit: BTW Cjais, yes, gunners pretty much HATED 1.03, and we appreciate the change :D

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by cjais


ASSFIGHTERS REJOICE! YOU HAVE TO LEARN KICKING SKILLS NOW!!!


Actually, it is going to force players to learn the stuff most full Force duel players have been doing for quite some time.

Pull/kick/saber throw combos are very deadly and are very common on FF duel servers.

As one who often more than not, puts his saber away and simply kicks saber-wielding fools to death, I am really trying hard not to laugh when my opponents still cling to the notion that the saber is still a powerful weapon.

With the backstab and air lunge gone, saber fights are now pretty much the standard "step in, side swing, step out, step in side swing, step out, repeat until your blows finally make it past the ridiculous parry/knock away system"

I said this over a month ago and I'll say it again.
You remove or weaken the saber any more by messing with the backstab and you will effectively make it utterly useless other than when thrown.

In v1.03 the backstab was the one fatal equalizer I had to watch out for, now, lol, I just spent the last half hour kicking people to death in duels and never took a single lethal blow from a saber.

I have been an avid kick/combo user since shortly after the v1.03 patch came out, but I know most of you have not.

You guys got a lot of catching up to do...

C'jais
07-12-2002, 04:41 AM
Hmmmm..... \me reads Ewok's sound arguments.....

Guess I'll stick to Nf duels like I used to....

NwO_2k_Mutt
07-12-2002, 04:50 AM
if all you guys do is complain, why play the damn game ! If its not one thing its another. No matter what is done people will find ways to exploit the game. I mean **** the patch has been out for 4 hours and the majority of the posts here are against the patch. Just one question are you as unhappy about your situation in real life to make you this bitter about a game?

LOL j/k all I like the patch, just remember that there will probably be antoher one or two or they may come out with an expansion that updates alot of stuff so just have fun playin thats what I do :D

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 05:00 AM
I'm not trying to be a jerk, it's just I knew this would happen.

It's not difficult to adapt to v1.04, actually for me I don't have to adapt at all. Not one bit.
I only used the backstab as a counter attack or finisher on inexperienced opponents.

It's just become funny that now, I really have nothing to fear from my opponents.
I damn near never died from standard saber swings due to the slow speed or weak damage ratios. Oh, and that lovely parry/knock away system that kept me alive when my opponent had a clean shot that should of landed.

Damn near never been killed from a DFA or Yellow finisher due to my rabid attention to pull+kicking them every time they try one.

Force lightning? Lol, I have been playing since the day this game came out and have been killed 2-3 times by lightning if even that.

Uh-oh better watch out for that Force grip... Lol.

The irony of all this is remember that poll on jediknightii.net a few days after the game fist came out?
It asked what your favorite pert of the game was.
The saber won by overwhelming results.
And now it has been reduced to semi-effective 20 to 30 damage, more often blocked than not, joke.

One other thing, mark my word; you are going to see a Hell of a lot more Yellow finisher/Yaw spin scripts now.
Especially on NF duels.
They are common on FF duels and are almost always an instant kill due to the spin part.

Oh well, I'm going back to kick people to death and laugh my furry little ones off when they try, but fail, to kill me with their worthless sabers.

crazyplaya73
07-12-2002, 05:00 AM
Yea, its so funny it sounds like they totally NURFED the saber. They must be smoking crack. A duel should rarely take longer then 2 minutes.

It sounds like the only way to play this game now is on a server running a MOD with increased saber damage. Does JK2++ work with the new patch. I think this MOD and the DUEL_SE once it is compatible with 104 will be the two choices to start with and more will be on the way for sure. I like DUEL_SE cause it allows the server admin to customize everything to do with with saber damage, saber throw, and kick.

Higher saber damage is the way to go for sure. And there was no reason at all to lower backsweep damage THAT MUCH. Just by making it harder to get knock downs and immpossible to spin would have been enough of a nurf without lowering damage at all.

MediocreSlacker
07-12-2002, 05:02 AM
Hey am I crazy or did kick get nerfed too? I just created a game with a bot in it and I must have kicked him forty times and he didn't die. Is this because of 1.04 or maybe because of that mod on Jahs server, cjais? Wouldn't a mod for 1.03 not work on 1.04?

slacker

Dest
07-12-2002, 05:18 AM
um where's the sdk? I was going to release my mod today but now I have to update it to 1.04 but I cant find an sdk for it :(

I already have most of this 1.04 stuff in my mod too except I made it so you can turn the nerfing on or off and set backstab damage to whatever you want.

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by MediocreSlacker
Hey am I crazy or did kick get nerfed too? I just created a game with a bot in it and I must have kicked him forty times and he didn't die. Is this because of 1.04 or maybe because of that mod on Jahs server, cjais? Wouldn't a mod for 1.03 not work on 1.04?

slacker
It's his mod and the settings he has, vanilla JO kicks are still the same.

KnightHawk420
07-12-2002, 05:28 AM
***Attention Linux Admins***



With this new patch also comes a new assets file. called "assets5.pk3"


You will need to patch your windows machine first, and then copy this file to your linux base folder.

Again much like the 1.03 patch would it of killed someone to mention this file specifically in the readme?

I know it states to copy files from patches 1.03 and 1.04, but again would it of killed anyone to just say copy the assets2.pk3 and assets5.pk3 file from your windows machines.

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 05:30 AM
Originally posted by crazyplaya73

Higher saber damage is the way to go for sure.

Absolutely.
The guys I really feel sorry for are the FFA players who prefer sabers over guns. Taking out a guy using Protect with rockets and the repeater secondary fire mode with 20-30 damage saber swings is going to be a challenge to say the least.

Perfect Jedi Outcast = The high saber damage and blocking (or lack of it) found in v1.02 combined with the attack animations and increased collision ratio tweaks done in v1.03.

Hell, keep the parry/knock away crap if you want but at least make the damn things do decent damage when they do connect.

MediocreSlacker
07-12-2002, 05:33 AM
yeah, you're right, I found the mod and moved it. The kicks are the same. *sigh*

slacker

Sabre9
07-12-2002, 05:41 AM
110 servers and counting! :D

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by boba fett c3po
is it just me or is kick overpowered in v1.04


Nope, it only does around 18-20 damage; it just ignores the wonderful auto-blocking that standard saber swings have trouble with.

Solidus Snake
07-12-2002, 05:44 AM
looks like repeater and flechette secondary fire take up 15 instead of 25 ammo now. which is good. :D

Swipe
07-12-2002, 05:49 AM
You know, i was just dueling...and I could still pivot while backstabbing. My opponent used mind tick and appeared behind me, so I used the backstab for its TRUE purpose. I moved the mouse out of curiosity, and I pivoted during the move. Is this common? or am I high?

C'jais
07-12-2002, 05:50 AM
I'm just wondering about *one* thing Ewok:

What will your sig be now? Loadsa options mate....

KnightHawk420
07-12-2002, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by boba fett c3po
is it just me or is kick overpowered in v1.04
and you can still use the floatbug
and you can also still pivot while doing one of those special moves
i thought those 2 things were gone in v1.04


You we're playing a 1.04 server without the assets5.pk3 file. Which essentially reverts it back to 1.03..

Demolisher
07-12-2002, 06:03 AM
Wtf?? I was on the Jedi Academy server, which I'm not even sure is patched, and I kept crashing with these weird client error messages. Raven, this game is so ****ed up; I am so ****ing sick of all this crashing and freezing!!!! :swear:

Grabes
07-12-2002, 06:09 AM
He doesn't need a sig, in everyone of his posts he portras himself as a god to JK2, gogta love arrogance. Vanity is sin ewok, there about the same.

BTW, don't reply back to me, i don't care what u say.

Gauvain
07-12-2002, 06:20 AM
it seems that many ppl had that problem as well but now the dedicated server patch has been released so it should be ok
i played a duel for 2 hours under 1.04 and i must admit that i had fun :)
now people complain about duel taking too much time and kicking taking way too much damage
if you dont already know, there is the variable g_saberDamageScale which allows you to multiple the damage done by the lightsaber
default set to 1 i played with 4 first then 2
i think 2 is perfect for duels and ffa games as well since it does pretty much damage for a lightsaber (a full front stab in high stance kills the guy)
it sounds like an easy 1 hit kill but still you have to "fully" stab him that means he doesnt move (which is quite hard that way)
otherwise that will damage him around 40-60 hp (which i think is normal for a lightsaber, and i precise i was playing with g_saberDamageScale set to 2)
duels dont last forever anymore and there are finally really good finishing moves done
as for the kicking that MAY be a problem since it cant be blocked (but you can block bullets and so on...refer to TheRock's post on page 3 :) ) but there is always a way
back on 1.03 i was playing everyday with backstabbers and ass fighters and still i managed to kick many asses
i'm not a mad kicker who tries to protect the kick and i think that its damage should be fixed but until the next patch comes i'm sure a way will be found to "avoid" being kicked
so for now plz guys join servers and enjoy that patch coming from the heavens given to us by raven :D

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 06:21 AM
Amazes me how people always mistake sarcasm for arrogance due to low self-esteem...

Pull+saber throw>kick
Repeat X 3
Win match.
This is MY patch. :D

BTW Gauvain, on the last page someone said something about good kick fighters not "running up against you", rather they would "fake" a kick attempt to make you roll, slash, whatever, hence exposing yourself.

This is so very true.

The only defense against kicks is to master it yourself. Not just the move but also the "setups" for it.

The key to surviving against a good kick fighter is not getting suckered in.

Well, Protect will help, but the fact that I can still put a person on the ground with a kick and then follow up with a saber throw and another kick (and maybe a DFA if they fall again) makes it pretty irrelevant.

Orangina_Rouge
07-12-2002, 06:25 AM
Lol homo ewok, i ve read your posts and sig about 1.04 and i must admit that you made my day ......it s so true that it s hilarious :D
Thx man ;)

SaberPro
07-12-2002, 06:39 AM
So far I only noticed the backsweep nerf and no more air lunge...

I was assuming that there should be more fixes to make it an "official patch"

Why really beg LucasArts to grant them to make a patch that really only has like 2 fixes?

Oy...

ryudom
07-12-2002, 06:41 AM
what else did you want them to fix?

(btw, they also fixed ammo problems)

also the patch is 9.5 megs, while the mod was very small. must be a reason for that

SaberPro
07-12-2002, 06:47 AM
one big one is the game-freezes.

minor bugs like u can purposely make ur saber fly away from you (works best on bespin)

More options on the voting menu/game setting menu...

And probably something new...like a new saber combo? or a new stance? Sound sound? I dont know...just a gut feeling that 2 fixes can't really make it an official patch...especially when it takes like forever to beg LucasArts for another patch

Gauvain
07-12-2002, 06:48 AM
indeed mastering kick yourself is a good protection against mad kickers but that also makes yourself one of them
i just want to find a protection against them that would allow me to stay in the light side :)
killing a killer is not the solution i think
for example what about pushing them while they are in air ? i know its really hard to do since you need god's reflexes (specially if the mad kicker is a god mad kicker :)) but with a little luck (like anywhere) maybe he would slow his kicks down a bit ?
or rolling if he approaches too near from you ?
well there are many solutions that must be tried out
i dont say they will be as effective as a kick itself but dont forget we are the good guys here so we have less advantage :D

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 06:50 AM
Is it just me or does the BS seem more difficult to do now?
I don't mean the spin part or the damage, I mean the simple back+attack.

I was messing around with some bots and backed one of them up into a corner, I kept trying to execute a BS, but it wouldn't work.

Finally I simply held down "back" for 3 seconds and grinded butts with the bot then pressed, "attack". It still did not execute the move?
After 2 more attempts it finally did.
Was something put into the code that requires "back" to be held down longer now?
At first I assumed I was not lined up perfectly "in a row" with the bot directly behind me, but I was.
Weird.
Anyone else get this?

ryudom
07-12-2002, 06:51 AM
its only easy to kick someone if they are coming straight toward you. its pretty easy to dogde a kick

Homosexual Ewok
07-12-2002, 07:00 AM
Gauvain I am going to warn you now, against someone who either has mastered the timing on a pull+kick combo or someone who has it scripted, you are going to be screwed.

This is insanely effective, unblockable and yes, it ignores absorb.

You ideas about push can work, if the person jumps from a distance, does not use pull, and comes at you straight on.

The person, who taught me to be such a bastard with kicks, also showed me that the best defense against them is a good offense.

While you can avoid the "average players" kicks with a simple sidestep, a veteran will set you up every time.

The only players who I cannot successfully beat using nothing but kicks, are the ones who use them to great success their selves.

That's not me bragging, it is the truth.
It is also the reason I rely so heavily on them to this day.

Gauvain
07-12-2002, 07:01 AM
ewok i didnt have that problem with the backstab
i managed to stab desann nicely on a local server
it just took me 4 BS :)

ryudom when i fight i'm quite "calm" (not running everywhere) so i'm an easy target for those who want to kick
and if i get near them to try something good (combos and so on) they just have to forward + jump twice and i'm on the floor
that is what i want to avoid

one other way is to play saber throw all the way but its not that good either :P

back to ewok i know that a really skilled kicker can be really annoying (i met one on a team ffa server, that was a nightmare) but still he had a hard time hitting me b/c i was rolling all the time and then throwing the saber at his face
you say that doing kicks yourself is the only solution
i just want to rephrase it as "only really effective solution"
there are ways to counter a kicker....not as efficiently as kicking yourself but dont forget that what he will mostly do is kicking and you have your saber
as far as physics are concerned lightsaber > kick :D
you just have to be smarter to hit him before he gets you...

technobot
07-12-2002, 07:05 AM
NWO: you're damn right I'm bitter but let me assure you my real life (i.e. social life) is vibrant, yet my geek life, i.e. school and videogames is suffering right now because summer school uni just ended and now my 2nd fav game at the moment takes too long to play... this is kind of a whine but not really because I can still win, I still enjoy playing (but not as much), and it's still my 2nd fav game :)

cjas: I really don't think Raven intended the game to take this long unless you go the kick in the face route. The beauty of a game like Age of Empires is there's a nice long build up, and it's an hour committment if you're into that kind of thing. The beauty of a Quake game is you can be in and out under 15 minutes, get your fix for the night, and go sleep with your wife. What they've done is A) make saberists useless against gun wielders (unless you pull the gun and then shoot them with it) and B) make FFA saber-only exactly what you alluded to, Jackie Chan styles kick-fest. I would gladly buy a game that just focused on light-saber fighting if they made it a true fighting game but I'm sorry, Jedi Knight is no Street Fighter (which by the way was much more complex from a fighting viewpoint yet the average match lasted 2 minutes).

I'm glad they fixed some stuff and I'm not bitter that backsweep was nerfed, once again I'm bitter because the saber is that much more useless now. Here's hoping for another patch with a damage boost across the boards for all the saberists... maybe an expansion with a fleshed out fighting system?

Agen
07-12-2002, 07:09 AM
Take your chance! play now! BEFORE THE KICKERS COME!!

DeTRiTiC-iQ
07-12-2002, 07:22 AM
I can still use backstab with 1.04 as much as I did before, although movement is a bit restrictive, they should have limited the pivot rather than remove it altogether.

With 1.03 the following things killed me:

Backswing - No matter how good you are, this move will get you eventually.

Kick - I'm on 56k, and as any 56ker will tell you, the only way to win a kick fight on 56k is to do the first kick and hope it kills. There is no way for someone with my pings to win a kick-fight.

Lightning - Well not really, Lightning only kills me if someone is lucky enough to find me when absorb has just run out and i'm on low health and mana.

Pull/Push - It happens to the best of us, but careful observations and taking few risks usually stops this.

DFA - For some reason even If I dodge the attack with plenty of time to spare the move will literally "drag" me back under the blade.

As you can see a lot of the times I am killed is due to my insane pings. I also have no idea how good I would be with low pings. But in a few months i'll be at University with high-speed internet so i'll finally be able to play well.


But. Backstabbing is still possible and though it will still take us a while to get used to the dynamics of its restrictions, I feel people will be whining about it again quite soon :D

Deetox187
07-12-2002, 07:22 AM
They actually reduced the saber damage even more? i'll give it a shot but so far it sounds like a real crappy patch.

Agen
07-12-2002, 07:30 AM
Yeh, for us 56kers we can't escape kicks or do them, they will have moved away by the time the thing registers we hit jump. :(

Dest
07-12-2002, 07:33 AM
It's really easy to make higher saber damage mods.

Ebuchednezzar
07-12-2002, 07:40 AM
I don't post much, but I read almost everyday. For a while, I used 1.03 and didn't really like the ridiculous blocking rate. I switched back to 1.02 recently, but decided to give 1.04 a try.

I don't play online much at all, but I play on a LAN at school in the fall pretty frequently; there may or may not be a lot of things about playing online that I don't really understand or know about. In any case, I've found that my biggest problem with the post 1.02 saber style is the low damage...the blocking would actually be pretty cool if the sabers were dangerous in the first place. Playing 1.04 for a while, I liked a lot of the little fixes, such as being unable to run backward as quickly, but the damage thing was still a problem. I kind of found a solution, though.

I don't mean to put this across as a be-all to end-all fix to everyone's problems, but it works for me. Enter the following console command in multiplayer:

g_saberDamageScale 3

The default value for the command is 1. Playing with the command entered for a while, I've noticed that Light Stance is about a 3 clean-hit kill, Medium is a 1-2 clean-hit kill, and Heavy Stance is almost always a 1 hit kill when it connects. As a big-time Star Wars fan, I've always felt the sabers should function this way; the Jedi did not charge into battlefields full of gunners with only their lightsabers because they were stupid. Also, I like the blocking in 1.04 now, because it only takes a few good hits to bring down an opponent. Duels last just the right amount of time...I like it even more than 1.02, which I always felt lacked in blocking just a bit.

Once again, let me reiterate that I don't think everyone will like this game style. I'm just putting it on the table as an open suggestion; also, I can't believe this hasn't been discovered before, so if anyone knows anything about this command and how it affects the game that I might not be aware of, please let me know. As of now, I've noticed the following items:

- The damage doesn't seem to affect the shield belt. It takes down health faster with a good hit, but it doesn't seem to take down shields as quickly...I might be wrong.

-Idle damage is not increased...it is still set at 1 point per pulse. I did notice idle damage happening a bit more, however...I could be imagining this too.

Please, if you know anything about this command, like it, hate it, or anything in between, respond. Be civil, however...these boards get ugly really quickly, and it's kind of sad. If you have something to say, but take the 10th grade approach, I won't flame you, I'll just ignore you. Thanks.

ryudom
07-12-2002, 07:40 AM
ok saber damage is FINE. i was just playing a guy and you can kill someone with a normal heavy hit if done perfectly down the middle. it just depends on how good the hit is

Dest
07-12-2002, 07:43 AM
oh guess you dont even need to make a mod to have high damage heh

C'jais
07-12-2002, 08:00 AM
It sounds great Ebuch,

I'd like to try the increased saber damage sometime, especially since I never got a chance to play 1.02 online before 1.03 got out...

I think it might make for some interesting changes when it only takes 2 hits to kill your enemy..... Damn short duels I foresee....

Dest
07-12-2002, 08:11 AM
in reality sword fights are rather short, saber fights are a lot like sword fights so they should be pretty short too, well if you were going for realism.

DarthCobra
07-12-2002, 08:18 AM
OMG what a bunch of mindless banter!!!!!!!!

MediocreSlacker
07-12-2002, 08:29 AM
Originally posted by DarthCobra
OMG what a bunch of mindless banter!!!!!!!!

yaY! Go cobra, I like your attitude! Whenever someone starts a thread and you're all, "You, sir, have the IQ of hash browns," I'm like, "Heeeee!"

slacker

crazyplaya73
07-12-2002, 08:54 AM
g_saberDamageScale 2 is what I have on my patched server. It definitely helps.

ryudom
07-12-2002, 09:21 AM
saber fights are longer because jedis have force and predict where saber is going

FatalStrike
07-12-2002, 10:00 AM
Simple re-load you game and play 1.02. Kicking too much there gets you killed in a hurry. Don't believe me? Challenge any PDJ player in 1.02. They love Kickers!

As far as 1.03 and 1.04 - Ewok is right - Kick or be Kicked!

By the way 1.04 doesn't seem like a real patch. It plays just like 1.03 with very minor changes. I was hoping to get a more 1.02ish feel back but its not too bad. DFA is still nerfed too much and heavy style still looks like your lightsaber is too heavy for you to be using. Kinda like a 5 year old with a baseball bat.

I will use throw pull and kick until my fingers bleed thanks for taking Backstab out, you made my life much easier.

FatalStrike
07-12-2002, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by ryudom
saber fights are longer because jedis have force and predict where saber is going

*sigh*

Saber fights are long when both Jedi are skilled at saber combat. Did you see the movie that just came out? Did Dooku take long with mini-vader or Obi-dies-later? No! Why because he was better. 1.02 was like that, good long duels only happened when two good players fought eachother. 1.03 and 1.04 make for long battle because players have mysterious blocking ability that no jedi,...i repeat...NO JEDI... ever had in any movie! Even vader couldn't block with his back.

IronJedi Kaga
07-12-2002, 10:21 AM
Funny to see all this commotion over kicking when it really only effects those who play ff sabers, which really has 95% about force and 5% about the saber. In nf sabers kicking isnt a problem. In ffa or ctf with guns, kicking is of little concern. Even in duels in those types of servers kicking does no damage. Overall kicking isnt a major issue.

dol-Egon
07-12-2002, 11:13 AM
While reading this thread, I keep saying to myself, "What a pathetically boring life some of these people must lead." If all you are going to do is KICK, you must not have anything else to do with your life. Personally, I try to find servers where there are skilled saberists who do not bore themselves to tears with pull/kick/throw combos. In fact, it is quite funny to watch some moron enter a server like that, talking trash and trying to use that combo, only to get creamed by a skilled player (without kicking even LOL).

Anyway, I like the new patch. It gives us saberists more of what we enjoyed before 1.03. I like the scaled-back backstab and the push/pull nerfing the most. I especially like the laugh I get at watching all you kickwhores out there thinking that you actually have any skill. You don't, because if you did, you'd be using a saber.

Doctor Shaft
07-12-2002, 11:15 AM
Here's my two cents.

So far, the patches have gone in the wrong direction. The complaining about certain game aspects have always brought about one result: the removal of a game aspect.

A backstab kills you, but normal swings do not. The complaint - backstab spam. Sure, it's warrented. It's not a cheap move, it's a smart move, but since it's the only smart move you have with the saber, it makes the game monotonous and funny looking. The solution to that would have been to make it more blockable AND increase saber damage on normal swings by a great deal. That way, you have fifty swings (okay there's probably less, but you get the point) that kill instead of one. The solution people wanted was the downright removal of backstab, or to make it take less damage. And I still always ask "when the hell are you going to use a backstab if it doesn't kill someone? Why turn all the way around to get in some stupid power ranger pose to hit someone if it doesn't finish the job?" But oh well.

I knew 1.04 would just remove all dangerous aspects of the game and turn it into a long "no killing me in stupid ways" kind of game. AT least in 1.03 I had to fear getting killed by backstab pull. It was a boring way to die, and the pull thing was streamlining game stradegy, but at least I felt danger. Now, everyone is free to charge at each other and fear nothing. Gunners will forever be told to go away because they can kill people so much quicker. The game becomes less dynamic.

Raven made a great game in my opinion, but because of mass opinions and complaints, they've decided to change the game for the customer benefit. Unfortunately, public opinion has been more steam and anger rather than straight thought. The solution to the saber problem is simple. Look at JK1. The first game. In this game, the heavy swing took an opponent from 100 health 100 shields (like 100/25 in jK2) to 2 health. If a person was gripped real quick, then hit, they died. Of course, JK1's saber combat was limited and stiff, but now we have this much more dynamic system. We can keep the lethality of the saber, make it kill someone fast, like one hit, or even two sometimes, put in your parry and blocks, and the problem is solved. Backstabbers won't be a problem, because while they turn around, you move out of the way, click the button, and their dead. You want a long saber battle... get good at not getting hit at all. And hitting the perosn precisely. Block correctly, as in keep your distacne. Don't rub up against the person. Then you have long intense duels. Tired of gunners? WEll, if you're saber actually could kill someone when you needed it to, as in one good hit, then you'd have a lot of fun fighting gunners. Hate kick? It can't be blocked you say? Who cares? if you have high damage, then it's just fine to take the 20 unblockable damage, my saber is going to cut through your foot and kill you anyway. Now the kick is only good when used with proper timing.

The point of is, when we complain, we keep asking for stuff to be removed. This is totally off. This game isn't counter strike. We're not dealing with an awp, or gun aim that is too good, or bunny hopping. We're just dealing with certain attack methods being weaker or less effective than others. The solution was not to remove the stronger elements. The solution was to just make the weaker elements stronger.

There are a variety of mods out there that aim to do this.
JK2 ++ is my favorite. It has the 1-2 hit kill system. No, this is not because sabers are 1337 and everyone should die to a chopping maniac. Blocking is still in the game, it's still easy to push, kick away, and even put your saber out first to kill the person. Also, gunners now have something to fear from the glowing wiffle stick. The pull and push system is adjusted, knockdowns are few, but manipulating a person is still in. So yes,, if you like pull/kick, it's there. The guns have ammo, but not too much. Force power usage has been brought back up. I believe several posts already mention where the boards are. Try out the game. If it peaks your interests, or you think there's just one aspect missing there, try posting your thoughts intelligently and everyone will discuss it in turn. There's other mods out there, and I"m sure their great for other stuff. but if you're looking for a mod that seeks to put everything on an equal level, and works for a faster paced game, not quick quake 3 rocket launcher, but fast, 10-20 minute gaming, then try JK2 ++

EZ-Lestat
07-12-2002, 11:31 AM
hmmm...

g_jediVmerc 1
g_saberdamagescale 2

Everything dandy. :D

HellFyre69
07-12-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Doctor Shaft
Here's my two cents.

So far, the patches have gone in the wrong direction. The complaining about certain game aspects have always brought about one result: the removal of a game aspect.

A backstab kills you, but normal swings do not. The complaint - backstab spam. Sure, it's warrented. It's not a cheap move, it's a smart move, but since it's the only smart move you have with the saber, it makes the game monotonous and funny looking. The solution to that would have been to make it more blockable AND increase saber damage on normal swings by a great deal. That way, you have fifty swings (okay there's probably less, but you get the point) that kill instead of one. The solution people wanted was the downright removal of backstab, or to make it take less damage. And I still always ask "when the hell are you going to use a backstab if it doesn't kill someone? Why turn all the way around to get in some stupid power ranger pose to hit someone if it doesn't finish the job?" But oh well.

I knew 1.04 would just remove all dangerous aspects of the game and turn it into a long "no killing me in stupid ways" kind of game. AT least in 1.03 I had to fear getting killed by backstab pull. It was a boring way to die, and the pull thing was streamlining game stradegy, but at least I felt danger. Now, everyone is free to charge at each other and fear nothing. Gunners will forever be told to go away because they can kill people so much quicker. The game becomes less dynamic.

Raven made a great game in my opinion, but because of mass opinions and complaints, they've decided to change the game for the customer benefit. Unfortunately, public opinion has been more steam and anger rather than straight thought. The solution to the saber problem is simple. Look at JK1. The first game. In this game, the heavy swing took an opponent from 100 health 100 shields (like 100/25 in jK2) to 2 health. If a person was gripped real quick, then hit, they died. Of course, JK1's saber combat was limited and stiff, but now we have this much more dynamic system. We can keep the lethality of the saber, make it kill someone fast, like one hit, or even two sometimes, put in your parry and blocks, and the problem is solved. Backstabbers won't be a problem, because while they turn around, you move out of the way, click the button, and their dead. You want a long saber battle... get good at not getting hit at all. And hitting the perosn precisely. Block correctly, as in keep your distacne. Don't rub up against the person. Then you have long intense duels. Tired of gunners? WEll, if you're saber actually could kill someone when you needed it to, as in one good hit, then you'd have a lot of fun fighting gunners. Hate kick? It can't be blocked you say? Who cares? if you have high damage, then it's just fine to take the 20 unblockable damage, my saber is going to cut through your foot and kill you anyway. Now the kick is only good when used with proper timing.

The point of is, when we complain, we keep asking for stuff to be removed. This is totally off. This game isn't counter strike. We're not dealing with an awp, or gun aim that is too good, or bunny hopping. We're just dealing with certain attack methods being weaker or less effective than others. The solution was not to remove the stronger elements. The solution was to just make the weaker elements stronger.



Exactly!! Yeah they should have made the backstab/slah almost useless! That move ownz!! I still dun get ppl why they were bitching about pull+backstab.. Actually i quite enjoyed for a quite a time.. until.. i got bored of it, and started playing in nf duels. but o well

Solidus Snake
07-12-2002, 01:50 PM
here's my take on the patch. frankly, i like it. yes i wouldn't consider my self a fan of the pull/backstab combo, and i frankly believe it's a skill-less attack since all one needs to do it tap a button and turn around and tap another button. now one reason for this likely is that i do not use absorb. i use dark powers in my setup. and this patch finally returns balance to both sides of the force (i think alot of people have been overlooking this with the focus on the gun vs. saber thing).

i've heard alot of arguements like "This is called JEDI Knight 2!!! Guns shouldn't be here!" Here's my take: The game is subtitled Jedi OUTCAST, which features a storyline on a fallen Jedi turned mercenary and loses touch with the Jedi ways. Then there are those who think guns don't belong in a Star Wars Universe type game. I'll remind you that guns are the prominent weapons in the Star Wars Universe. Then there are those who think limiting the saber to be more passive makes it just another quake 3 game. I dont believe so. Sabers aren't what makes the Jedi (heck even Han Solo used a saber at one point), it's powers that set this game apart from others (and as i mentioned before i think this patch did a good job revitalizing the dark side). Lastly, do you honestly think its realistic to think a Jedi would fare well in a battlezone? Look at Episode 2, the fighting Jedi Knights got massacred (it even only took one "gunner" to take out one Jedi when Jango kills a Jedi trying to attack Dooku). And i'll leave you with a quote from a jedi himself "We're keepers of the peace not soldiers."

In my opinion, this patch I think is an improvement. I still see gunners getting killed by sabers with this patch (and still by backstab as well). I simply think sabers are best suited for either a good and intense duel, or maybe if you're still adamant about it, a saber only server. All in all though, I'm glad this patch came out.

MustaPekka
07-12-2002, 03:14 PM
Removing the air lunge they take much away from the game.

Nothing less - nothing more.

I could care less about the other changes.

Peace out.

V-tecc
07-12-2002, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by FatalStrike
Simple re-load you game and play 1.02. Kicking too much there gets you killed in a hurry. Don't believe me? Challenge any PDJ player in 1.02. They love Kickers!

As far as 1.03 and 1.04 - Ewok is right - Kick or be Kicked!

By the way 1.04 doesn't seem like a real patch. It plays just like 1.03 with very minor changes. I was hoping to get a more 1.02ish feel back but its not too bad. DFA is still nerfed too much and heavy style still looks like your lightsaber is too heavy for you to be using. Kinda like a 5 year old with a baseball bat.

I will use throw pull and kick until my fingers bleed thanks for taking Backstab out, you made my life much easier.

I have read some of your posts on the 1.02-04 subject and just want to say that I totaly agree with you on every topic.

Its people like you that Raven and lucas should listen to, not people who want to:

1.02: nerf DFA/DRAIN/GRIP - cant defend myself against it
1.03: nerf BackStab - cant defend myself against it
1.04: nerf Kick- cant defend myself against it

1.05: nerf the lightsaber - cant defend myself against it???

What the hell people... stop wishing things away!!
You will turn this into a diplomatical game in which people just b1tch about how they suck... ohh wait.. we are there already....

If we just altered DFA and the freezing bug in 1.03, then there would be no problem with: BS/KICK/ETC!!!!

Damn you all! ... Damn you all to the hell you have created with 1.03 and there after!

Koenig
07-12-2002, 04:36 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you just crouch to avoid Kicks?

leXX
07-12-2002, 05:23 PM
My screenshots bind was working fine before 1.04. Yesterday I took a hell of a load of great screenshots, 10 men high towers, sabers circles, I even landed on the very top of ffa_bespin but none of my screenshots came out even though it said "Wrote screenshot!" I checked my base/shreenshots folder after and it was empty. :(

The current bind I have is: /bind p "take screenshot" - which worked fine with 1.03. Does anyone know if there is a new bind for 1.04???

Agen
07-12-2002, 08:59 PM
Lol, Ebuch. I lsot 20 health using tyhat setting whle rolling under saber (usually takes off 1 pt)

Yeh, 1.04 is pretty good because there's no one actually going for cheap moves yet, i played 3 hours of it yesterday all great fun with no irritation of backstab spammers or DFAers.
Personally for me i can't kick(can't see em comnig either) cos of me wee 56k but i aint complaining now that i don't get timed out when soemone kicks :)

dol-Egon
07-12-2002, 09:05 PM
Originally posted by V-tecc


I have read some of your posts on the 1.02-04 subject and just want to say that I totaly agree with you on every topic.

Its people like you that Raven and lucas should listen to, not people who want to:

1.02: nerf DFA/DRAIN/GRIP - cant defend myself against it
1.03: nerf BackStab - cant defend myself against it
1.04: nerf Kick- cant defend myself against it

1.05: nerf the lightsaber - cant defend myself against it???

What the hell people... stop wishing things away!!
You will turn this into a diplomatical game in which people just b1tch about how they suck... ohh wait.. we are there already....

If we just altered DFA and the freezing bug in 1.03, then there would be no problem with: BS/KICK/ETC!!!!

Damn you all! ... Damn you all to the hell you have created with 1.03 and there after!

HAHAHAHA! "nerf the lightsaver - cant defend myself against it" ROFL.

I have to admit, I was just like everyone else out there.. pulldown/backslash... and enjoyed it for a short while, but then it just became a finisher after I had whittled away an opponent. Even though I used it, I thought it was completely stupid and skilless. I was a big proponent of removing it.

ANYWAY, 1.02 is still the best release of the bunch. 1.04 takes the game back to it's original form (for the most part). Aside from the skilless kicking, I think that 1.04 is definitely a step in the right direction.

You guys need to join a server that has "g_saberdamagescale 4" turned on. That setting completely rocks and takes out the gay kick-spamming completely (a single heavy swing takes them out).
Even 3 works well.

Darth Kaan
07-12-2002, 10:09 PM
Originally posted by lexx
My screenshots bind was working fine before 1.04. Yesterday I took a hell of a load of great screenshots, 10 men high towers, sabers circles, I even landed on the very top of ffa_bespin but none of my screenshots came out even though it said "Wrote screenshot!" I checked my base/shreenshots folder after and it was empty. :(

The current bind I have is: /bind p "take screenshot" - which worked fine with 1.03. Does anyone know if there is a new bind for 1.04???

Lexx,

I dont know if this is the problem but in 1.03 I used:

"bind f12 screenshot" not "take screenshot"

bind f12 screenshot still works for me in 1.04, hope its that simple of a fix for you.

Kaan

SaberPro
07-12-2002, 11:40 PM
First, the DFA (Death From Above manuever) once again will kill instantly, like the one in v1.02, just without pivoting. All of the saber moves have been powered-up, which could do a lot of damage if a shot was scored.

The mid-air lunge has been removed, along with the high-fall save lunges.

The backsweep/backstab has been tweaked, and powered-down, and plus no more pivoting. There's a big fix :) When I was playing FF Sabers only, that Pull+Backsweep manuever people kept trying to do to me will not work because you can't knock people over with pull anymore

When you enter a Duel, you can't use any inventory like Bacta Tanks, and plus if it is a FF server, you can't use Saber Throw.

As for duels, it's more fun now because the saber damage has been increased, but your defense is still like in 1.03, can almost block any saber swings. So no more newbie's-random-swings that kills you because skills matter more in 1.04 :)

One last thing...any body noticed the roll? You can now control the roll much...more. While rolling forward you could actually pull back lol, and the backroll sometimes rolls shorter distance (not always)

Anybody notice the jump height? Higher? Or is it just me...

Wheelchairboy
07-12-2002, 11:48 PM
the saberdamagescale does work rather nicely, to me it brings the best of 1.02 (fast saber duels) and the best of 1.04 together! I don't mind that the DFA or the backstabs are one hit kills, they are easy to counter, but when you can pivot, and when the dfa can kill you when his saber is in the ground and not even visible then that is what i didn't like. now the DFA people have to sit on the ground and wait while i come up and do a blue lunge on em :)

Anyway, 1.04 patch with saberdamagescale on to whatever you want really makes this game shine again!

good job raven!!

poomba
07-12-2002, 11:52 PM
Did they change the yellow dfa? The animation looks different and I also noticed that I don't seem to stick the landing like it used to. Now i almost land running and don't have that 2 second period where I'm on the ground with my saber sticking out...

Just me or have you guys noticed this too?

--poomba

Nobodi Kenobi
07-13-2002, 01:22 AM
I just got off a NF Duel only server and I must say the patch is a step in the right direction.

The gameplay felt very much like 1.2; smoother, faster perhaps, than 1.3. It's not perfect, but it's better than the atrocious 1.3.

A guy tried to BS me, but it didn't work. Even when I was within killing range. Is this a good thing (maybe he wasn't trying to "kill" me; just see how it changed)? I'll leave that up to the BS debate for those who love or hate it.

The main thing is that even though saber stances haven't been increased/decreased with this patch (to my knowledge) I actually WON the entire duel (10 kill limit with 5 other people) and could not do that with 1.3 at all -- Not just because of BS, but because while L.A./Raven claimed 1.3 was more SP like, it felt very stiff and restricted to me whereas 1.4 feels very fluid and smooth when comparing rolls, backflips and other offensive/defensive moves such as those which I will credit a large part of what allowed me to win the duel by doging and moving and then getting my shots in like any good saberist.

Inskipp
07-13-2002, 01:46 AM
I have been playing since this game came out. Overall, I like the 1.04 patch, but really, I didn't mind the other patch either. The assfighters were easily dealt with with some clever manuvering, and I never became such an "elite" player like some of you who talked about the game becoming boring and pointless.

I have tried just about ever mod out there, and some changes are fun for a while. But what we sometimes forget is that this is one of the best games out there. Especially for a big star wars fan! I remember when I first got it I would just turn on and off my saber just to hear the cool sound. Watching a group of people flailing about with all the different colored lightsabers was, and still is, a treat. And having a lanparty where everyone there is playing and having a good time, is the pinnacle of playing games like this.

Now, some people like this, and others hate that, but I have found with proper saber skills, and knowledge of the force, light and dark, I have found I can still sometimes win a deathmatch, even on my 56k connection. None of the "problems" ever really affected me, because I concentrated on forward fighting, heavy stance sabering, using light or dark side force, depending on the map.

So, if you are reading this, on PAGE 6 of the thread, you too must be a true fan of the game, despite whatever problems people think it has. I know I'll keep playing, because its still FUN. See you on the servers. ;)

Inskipp

leXX
07-13-2002, 02:14 AM
Originally posted by Darth Kaan


Lexx,

I dont know if this is the problem but in 1.03 I used:

"bind f12 screenshot" not "take screenshot"

bind f12 screenshot still works for me in 1.04, hope its that simple of a fix for you.

Kaan

Thanx, I just re-typed the bind and it works fine now! Weird eh? Maybe it was a server thing, I don't know. :confused:

Darth Kaan
07-13-2002, 02:48 AM
Great! Yes its usually something simple. Glad you can take them again. :)

Kaan

DRockW
07-13-2002, 06:35 AM
Forgive me if this waas already addressed. in the notes it says only 1.4 servers will be visable in the game browser when selecting multiplayer, but 1.3 servers are still showing up. Does anyone know how to filter these out?

Smart_Saber
07-13-2002, 07:39 AM
I've got tons of models downloaded. Does 1.04 affect them? Will they just stop working? Do they only not work when playing online?

HellFyre69
07-13-2002, 10:05 AM
Originally posted by Smart_Saber
I've got tons of models downloaded. Does 1.04 affect them? Will they just stop working? Do they only not work when playing online?

They shouldnt affect your skins/models

and your models will only work if the server has the same exact model/skin

Tenshu
07-13-2002, 06:19 PM
How about this(to increase skill and damage).
I say: let's not increase saber damage, just tweak the amount of blocking. The blocking system should be like this.

Picture the player standing in the middle of a clock, with the 12 right in front of him, so the 6 is behind him.(old system used in dogfighting)
A successful block should be the result of looking at the incoming blow in the arc from 11 o' clock to 1 o'clock.(thats about 60° - i think). So the player would actually have to aim in order for him to block successfully.

If the blow lands outside that arc, it should do gradually more damage. i.e.: hit at 3 o' clock should be less damage than hit at 6 o'clock(about instant death).

Second: gunners have gotten too much of an advantage over saberists. Noone likes to use sabers in an all weapons server anymore. Don't tweak the gun damage or ammo ammount, but I think saberists should run just a bit faster than gunners, and a saber contact with a gunner should be instant death. Gunners will fear saberists that way, but would remain very strong(distance advantage,...)

Tenshu
07-13-2002, 07:20 PM
+ push/pull should be easily blocked if the target is looking at the pusher/puller. (in an arc of...?)

jlove
07-13-2002, 10:28 PM
Sorry if this has been asked before, but has anyone tried the 1.04 patch with the tck mod yet?

This is the tck saber mod that not only lets you configure your saber but also lets you change the size of your bots and models to different sizes.

I don't want to upgrade unless this mod works in 1.04.

Thanks.

Orangina_Rouge
07-14-2002, 12:01 AM
Originally posted by Tenshu
How about this(to increase skill and damage).
I say: let's not increase saber damage, just tweak the amount of blocking. The blocking system should be like this.

Picture the player standing in the middle of a clock, with the 12 right in front of him, so the 6 is behind him.(old system used in dogfighting)
A successful block should be the result of looking at the incoming blow in the arc from 11 o' clock to 1 o'clock.(thats about 60° - i think). So the player would actually have to aim in order for him to block successfully.

If the blow lands outside that arc, it should do gradually more damage. i.e.: hit at 3 o' clock should be less damage than hit at 6 o'clock(about instant death).

Second: gunners have gotten too much of an advantage over saberists. Noone likes to use sabers in an all weapons server anymore. Don't tweak the gun damage or ammo ammount, but I think saberists should run just a bit faster than gunners, and a saber contact with a gunner should be instant death. Gunners will fear saberists that way, but would remain very strong(distance advantage,...)

Wow :eek: Someone wich came up with the same wish i *cough* spam *cough* since some time :p
I m not alone :D

ryudom
07-14-2002, 03:31 AM
was there a saber damage scale in other versions? or is this new to 1.04?

either way i LOVE 1.04 even though many ppl don't because their precious bs has been removed and balance has been restored throughout the galaxie

NK_Zephorath
07-14-2002, 03:53 AM
Fixing the backstab did nothing to balance the rest of the game, like the force powers.

ryudom
07-14-2002, 04:08 AM
what the HELL isn't balanced with force powers!!!!! no that there is no pull bs combo, light is "overpowered"!

FlashFearless
07-14-2002, 04:08 AM
That arch-clock-system will just make people circle-strafe around each other constantly trying to get around the other person's defenses

ryudom
07-14-2002, 04:10 AM
no, there is some thing called a counter attack

Tenshu
07-14-2002, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by FlashFearless
That arch-clock-system will just make people circle-strafe around each other constantly trying to get around the other person's defenses

Why is that a bad thing? It actually involves skill and could easily provide with either very long battles or very short ones.

MonKey-turD
07-14-2002, 06:04 PM
this new patch is crap
just as crap as the last one, raven soft have truly destroyed what was a great game
now that people cant backstab they have turned to other, more annoying moves

It is FAR too easy to block
this guy was standing facing away from me, i pounded him at least 6 times on RED stance, he blocked all of them, even though he was facing away from me, and he was idle, i've seen people block when they are on the ground and doing force lighting, because its so easy to block, its hard to kill people with a lightsaber, people are now turning to lightning, i see people having lighting battles instead of lightsaber duels, but why shouldn't people use lightning, its impossible to block, and it does quite a fair amount of damage + it recharges giving the person a basically limitless supply of lightning

I was fighting a guy and this is what he did, lighting, run backwards slashing randomly ( as we know you can still block with your back turned and even if you are slashing air in front of you) untill his force power had returned then did lighting again, he even got in a few backstabs.

Also in the very same game, another person only used force pull and kick, and when someone tried to attack him he would use mind trick to run away like a little girl

I have now deleted JK2 and i will never re-install it, as i have no confidence that ravensoft can produce any quality software anymore
they had a good game but destroyed it, im sure they will destroy games like quake 4 and further demolish sof2's reputation.

Anything i get thats made from ravensoft will now be copied as i dont think they deserve the money for such major, and fluctuating changes in gameplay.

ryudom
07-14-2002, 07:58 PM
^^^ 6 times with heavy stance huh? coudln't connect? well your skill is obviously too amazing for this game. you're right, someone with your talent and patience should probably move on and play a more challenging game, like online barbie.

MonKey-turD
07-14-2002, 10:38 PM
the game should be based on movement, attacking, counter attacking, not just standing there doing nothing with the ablity to block basically everything

i said that to show how stupidly easy the blocking is, and from that develops people who just use lightning, because lets face it, its easier, and requires no skill

ryudom
07-14-2002, 11:51 PM
the fact of the matter is, the game is base on movement attacking and counterattacking. you can easily get past defences by doing one of the following.

1 get out of they're blocking arc
2 use a stronger stance
3 use a combo
4 use a special attack

and thats only if they do nothing but block.

MonKey-turD
07-15-2002, 01:05 AM
its a bit hard to get out of their blocking arc if its 360degs
if you would have remembered my post, i said that i attacked someone in red stance, from behind and they still blocked it.
Combos are still easily blocked, i see the models moving the light saber at 100km/h

and also i dont use special moves because im trying to destroy them because of how crap they are, and how often they are abused

ryudom
07-15-2002, 01:44 AM
oh i don't know what game you are playing but i hit people from behind all the time

power_ed
07-15-2002, 02:47 AM
Sometimes i just dont get developers.. it seems like their only solution to the backstab spamming was to nerf the dammage done by it..

in the game manual it's supposed to be an unblockable, devestating move.
:rolleyes:


if it keeps going in this direction.. in ver. 1.09 all saber moves will do 10 damage or less if it even hit coz of the überblocking.. imagine.. a duel that goes on for 2 hours

i see total newbies owning at the servers right now.. this isnt the way it's supposed to be.. an experienced JK gamer should be able to win with skill.. not luck.

i dont understand why they didnt just make it a key-combo move.. that way it would take SKILL to perform it and practicly impossible to spam.

come on raven.. this is getting ridiculous

ryudom
07-15-2002, 04:14 AM
an experienced JK gamer should be able to win with skill.. not luck.

ok you have obviously never seen a match between someone with skill and someone without. why the hell am i even responding to this idiotic statement. any good player can cut down a newbie with his one hand behind his back. infact i could probably take any newbie with only my feet. so....


SHAAADUP!

power_ed
07-15-2002, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by ryudom


ok you have obviously never seen a match between someone with skill and someone without. why the hell am i even responding to this idiotic statement. any good player can cut down a newbie with his one hand behind his back. infact i could probably take any newbie with only my feet. so....


SHAAADUP!

dude... why are you flaming me and agreeing with me at the same time?

all i'm saying is: many ppl including me spend allota servertime gaining skill.. and everytime i'm feeling comfortable with the game.. they go and change the rules. i 0wn newbies to (well i sure as hell hope i do otherwise maybe its time to go find another game ;) ) anyways, that was not my point.

honestly.. do you think its fair thar newbies can top the list on a server that holds many experienced players? why is it that everytime there is a small problem in this game, raven decides to nerf it? just change the way it's performed (possibly by turning the backstab into a key-combo) thereby forcing the whining n00bs to actually gain some skill instead of reducing the damage..

this is not the same game i bought anymore..




flame away...

KurganQ2
07-15-2002, 06:32 AM
RAVEN freakin' beta test these patches....you must not try them or you would realize how bad they suck.

Put some power in the saber and maybe it wouldn't suck, but right now it's monkeys just hitting each other like 100 times spinning and random because no one fears getting hit.

You almost only ever die because of the lame lightening fighters...force push and pull...RIP

Demolisher
07-15-2002, 07:19 AM
Raven sucks at beta testing! I know this for a fact when they patched Heretic II; they released patches with loads of bugs. Before that, they left Hexenworld in beta all together :mad:

IronJedi Kaga
07-15-2002, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Demolisher
Raven sucks at beta testing! I know this for a fact when they patched Heretic II; they released patches with loads of bugs. Before that, they left Hexenworld in beta all together :mad:

If your the same demolisher that was in Onslaught, then I have no idea wtf your talking about. Raven did a good job with heretic 2, we and the rest of onslaught used to play it all the time with no problems.

Er if your not that demolisher, well er disregard this :P

GRENDIZER
07-15-2002, 08:57 AM
Actually..... today i played alot of duels by just keeping attack pressed down in blue stance, and sort of trying to keep my enemy within the crosshair.

I lost 18..... I won 42!!!

I 'd say that SUCKS big-time! :(

_________________________________________

[DJC] Grendizer

XtremeForce
07-15-2002, 10:49 AM
I haven't seen a change in 1.02 1.03 or 1.04....Maybe for you guys.I dunno

MonKey-turD
07-15-2002, 01:10 PM
another good point made by some of the other posters, is that sabering doesnt require skill
you run around each other waving your sabers randomly, and somewhat in the direction of the other person, hoping that you may get a hit in, its complete luck, there is no way you can controll the saber or the blocking, why dont we just let bots play for us, all we are doing now is holding the mouse button, the strafe buttons, and force button if you really wanna annoy them

EZ-Lestat
07-15-2002, 01:33 PM
(possibly by turning the backstab into a key-combo) thereby forcing the whining n00bs to actually gain some skill instead of reducing the damage..
[/B]

That wouldn't work too well because then people would just script the bs....

Can people stop complaining about the low damage on sabers? go play on any g_saberdamagescaled server...

ryudom
07-15-2002, 08:50 PM
another good point made by some of the other posters, is that sabering doesnt require skill


ok... heres the deal->

there are few people out there that go for precise movements and not wild saber wacking. but those precise people can kill any saber flalling lunitic. how can you say sabering doesn't require skill? have you not seen anyone with skill? probably not. I'm sick of people saying you don't require skill, and how newbies own servers. well if newbies own and saber flalling lunitics own you, you suck.

honestly.. do you think its fair thar newbies can top the list on a server that holds many experienced players?

if newbies are owning experienced players, those experienced players must suck. i never see newbies cut down anyone good.

well i don't see how i was agreeing with you, but sorry for the flamming anyway. its just annorying how people are saying how the patch sucks even though its balanced now and people say there is no skill required.

DRockW
07-15-2002, 10:25 PM
This is weird, some 1.4 servers let you pivot on your BS and some don't. What's the deal?

MonKey-turD
07-15-2002, 10:27 PM
people who do precise moves are often overwhelmed by random stabbing, and because its so easy to block there is no point. How do i know this... because i have tried going to single more precise moves, unless you mean precise as in doing a barrage of 1-hit kill moves.

V-tecc
07-15-2002, 11:10 PM
I'm a true 1.02 veteran, I currently have the 1.04 installed to test it out.

Me and a friend tried it together and did a couple of tests.
In one of these tests we had a kick Vs. saber duel.
The kicker almost always won, in the end having almost full health.

Later I dueled against another guy who had played 1.03-1.04 intensively. He considered himself to be a experienced player:

My tactic was simple, yellow stance; button pushed in always. Finnish of with yellow special.

It felt to me like zero skill, but guess what: I won with big figures.

Another pathetic thing i have noticed:

This equation happens to me alot, how about you?

red stance+confused and outplayed newbie+perfect hit in his back=



...?


That's right... a BLOCK!


I think I'm going back to 1.02 again....

PS: Flame me and I'll burn you down like an old house!

{DHU}Screed
07-15-2002, 11:43 PM
Well u ppl who suck, got ur way again first the 1.02-1.03 saber handling changes now 1.04 u guys want to get rid of kicks. First off kicking is the same as it was in 1.03 just less used in 1.03 cause of the roll+pull. I for one kicked very well in all the patches, and there are counters for it if u have any skills what so ever u might just find em. Quit ur whining like i said b4 and play the damn game, ur ruining this game each time they nerf something else. 1.02 was fine, 1.03 grew on me, 1.04 takes to long to kill and drain is just a pain in the ass now.

Evolution
07-16-2002, 12:11 AM
Well I believe that 1.04 is almost the best version of JKII for a few reasons:
[list=1]
You now need skill(So people won't get tired of JKII as easily)
Now Throw Hos can Rule
Now you have to be exact
The Force and Technique Balance is great(except for a few nerfs on the moves)
And Finally, if you don't like it, play a mod
[/list=1]

KurganQ2
07-16-2002, 01:49 AM
Originally posted by GRENDIZER
Actually..... today i played alot of duels by just keeping attack pressed down in blue stance, and sort of trying to keep my enemy within the crosshair.

I lost 18..... I won 42!!!

I 'd say that SUCKS big-time! :(

_________________________________________

[DJC] Grendizer

EXACTLY...you need heavy damage...it's a FREAKIN' Light Saber..it cuts you in HALF! Those damage scaled servers are freakin' hard to find...there was only 1 jk2++ server and now it's gone. 1.04 as is, is totally worthless...if they had left damage scale about where it was in 1.03 and just fixed the bugs (not messing up force powers as well)...maybe we'd have a game worth playing

SaberProctologi
07-16-2002, 07:00 PM
Suck @55!!!

This patch has got to be the biggest waste of time...

I had actually heard about all the gayness that is is 1.04 and decided I would go test it out. Well I loaded up on a FFA server and hit it with my blue saber. I held the button down and just went through swinging and hacking like a newb. I felt pathetic, but you know what...?? I did well, really well.

Then I decided I would go on a lightning and red saber lunge festival. 2nd place that time.

I think I can safely say we have moved backwards with this patch. Its definately a step in the wrong direction at any rate. Here are my opinions on several things.

Backward moment is now about 75% of your forward movement rate, reverse rolling included. I liked my reverse rolls to get out of the way of things. However this significantly reduces the effectiveness of @55-fighting, even though I love those @55-fighters. Yeah that is right, just keep backing up and let me show you where I put this saber.

Blue saber style gimps are owning on all kinds of different servers. On that note, never seen so many high placed "Padawan"s in my life. All it takes is them holding down attack and running through swinging wildy. Truly sad indeed.

I use pull a lot and even I will say that it is overpowered now. Even with absorb on I was still getting yanked backwards... hello, something is wrong with that.

Being locked into any position for any amount of time is devastating. On that note, Red/Yellow sweep are almost useless(Oh sure they still do damage, but she ain't what she used ta be). Getting tagged 2 or 3 times with a blue saber in the time it takes to complete a red swing is painful.

Also drain power is drastically overpowered now, I personaly think the amount of drain should be commensurate with the amount of force being put into it, like a 1:1 ratio. I could even settle for a 1:1.3, but in its current state combined with lightning you give a distinct advantage to dark force users. You will see a lot more of them on the servers now.

At least they didn't screw with kick, thank god. Not really all that many good kick combos now short of kicking someone off into the void or kick/red lunge though.

No movement during red sweep and the reduction to its power is horrible... I don't want to hear any whining from you blue saber swinging noobs out there either. On one of the servers I play on we violently enforce a no saber = no kill and no text killing policy. I usually don't kick people, but I will if they get bad. But normally I just pull/kick someone who is sabering someone with saber down and a quick red sweep and they were outta my hair. Now I have to tolerate these gimps who are killing ppl with saber down. We actually have to whip out our sabers and go through the lengthy task of killing these fools to proceed with what we were doing, be it gooifing off or dueling. Dueling... there is another good time to use the red sweep to kill gimps getting in the way of duelers. So much for that.

No saber toss during duels = tolerable. I personally used it on certain occasions. But it wasn't a must for me to win.

Lemme see... What else... ???

Ahh yes then there are the bugs. Invisible saber : For anyone who wants to do this its really easy... I figure the more people who know about it and the more people who use it and annoy others the quicker it will get fixed. Also its important for these types of things to be known so that they can be fixed. On that note... Jack your force Saber toss all the way up(make sure you die or respawn so it will take effect). Now whip out your saber, blue style easiest. Toss your saber and as soon as it leaves your hand hold down attack and then release your throw. Keep holding down attack. Now just before the saber comes back to your hand, step to the left a few steps. If done correctly, the saber should be spinning around you. Keep holding down attack and it will keep spinning. Now use your taunt key(WooHooo), while still holding down your attack. Now walk away and go jump off of a cliff, while still holding down your attack. When you die and respawn, while still holding down your attack, you will respawn just a swinging away. Well that is it, release your attack(at long last). Put your saber away and you can now run up to ppl and simple get close and your invisible saber will tag them for 20 points of damage or thereabouts. Pretty simple huh...

Also they need to fix our colors as well.

Well that pretty much ends my rather lengthy post. Other than saying this patch pretty much sucked the life out of the game. I will play on it for a while and see what other gripes / complaints / positive notes(there weren't many) I can come up with.

That said... may the force be with all the noobs, after all they own the servers now.

Saber Proctologist & The Nasty Wookiee(he wanted me to tag his sig on here as well since he plays on my machine :) )

"Just keep backing that big ole @55 up and I will shove my saber so far down where the sun don't shine it will take an oral surgeon to get it out!"

EDIT : In case you were wondering what my personal preference was... I "WAS" a red saber style, good force using, absorb that gay @55 lightning, pull/kick, sweeping mofo. And I was damn good at it too. In duels I swapped up a lot though, using mid air blue lunges, red lunges, yellow/red sweeps, etc... I NEVER blue backstabbed in a duel though, that would just be insulting.

Now all i have to do is imitate those that I formerly despised so much and just run through the game in blue saber style while hodling down attack. Maybe I will take an occasional break to heal up by draining all the force, rather quickly I might add, from all the people I run into. Toss the occasional lightning. Or perhaps I will just use some "rage"in cajun style while swinging my blue saber madly to do even more gay damage.

sigh............................

Koenig
07-16-2002, 10:14 PM
After installing the patch, I had a quick FFA game against some top level bots. Within 1 Minute of starting a sabre fight with the bot it was dead and I had jack all damage.

Rather odd I think. The Bot was no challange at all.

ryudom
07-17-2002, 04:49 AM
i said it before and i'll say it agian: if padwan's own you with light spamming, you suck

krazypenguin
07-17-2002, 08:08 AM
i said it before and i'll say it agian: if padwan's own you with light spamming, you suck

It's true. If a noob beat the hell out of you with any spam, you really just suck. Plain and simple.

Anyone with good footwork and saber combo skills can maul down a noob within seconds of the fight. It's true in 1.04 more noobs are getting their lucky shots in, but anyone that I've played with that has any skills never has problems.

Lots of you are testing this patch out in FFA rooms, which has ALWAYS been about spamming cheap moves over and over to get kills. If you want to consider getting the most frags "winning" the map, then you're obviously missing out on a better game of dueling.

people who do precise moves are often overwhelmed by random stabbing, and because its so easy to block there is no point. How do i know this... because i have tried going to single more precise moves, unless you mean precise as in doing a barrage of 1-hit kill moves.

You're hitting people in the wrong places or swinging in the wrong direction buddy, there's all kinds of holes in defense of any stance. You're obviously NOT that precise if you can't hit people. If you think sabering require such low skills, that's why you keep getting killed, should go back to "circle strife and rocket jumping" games instead.

ryudom
07-17-2002, 08:11 AM
exactly

BF_Hoby
07-17-2002, 01:46 PM
Ok The new patch has remove the ability to really get to use the saber as an attack weapon on highly competitive CTF ladder. If you think not? then simply join the ladder and scrim one of the top 5 clans at www.teamwarfare.com and you will see for youself that there is noway you can use sabers to do anyting but to defend agains some weapons. I changed my force config to have now only light saber attack and level 3 defense .. throw at nothing.. why bother..

I love sabers.. I love force powers. If it wasnt for those two things I would not be playing JO. I am not into quake/unreal. They are just weapon games no real complexity there.

Well Raven is on their way to rename'n their game to something like Quake Knight or Unreal Knight instead of Jedi Knight.

Of course our clan www.bfcarnage.com is having to conform to this new changes and we are. But I feel that the community for high competition is looking for something else now. JK2++ maybe the answer as they beef up the damage a saber uses. Check them out at http://forums.wdonline.com

Also I posted some info on how to Key Bind switching between Light and Dark forces instantly. http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=69857

I figured doing this will help promote the use of JK2++ mod since Raven is clueless.