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Compa_Mighty
07-12-2002, 11:07 AM
I'm not taking credit for this, it's jcb231's idea, I'm only creating a briefer poll, with YOUR TOP 9, and asking you an extra question:

As I said in previous posts, I think it would be great that LA released a new x-pack with 6 civs new terrains, units, etc. of course at a full game's price (after all, it'd have the same size as the original game).

So the question is:

Which 6 civs would you like this x-pack to feature?

Answer and let's see which ones are the most popular. My civs are:

- Mon Calamari
- Chiss
- Noghri
- Black Sun
- Trandoshans
- Kaminoans/ Vong (I'm not sure about this one)

CorranSec
07-12-2002, 02:33 PM
Hmm. Top 6 civs???
Mine would be....

1. Smugglers Alliance. (i've always wanted these people)

2. Yuuzhan Vong. (these guys are really, really, really... don't know how to say it.. COOL!)

3. Mon Calamari (lots of stuff about them in EU, and I love their aircraft.)

4. Imperial Remnant (I would consider this to be the sum total of the whole EU Imperial forces, after Endor and the fall of Coruscant, and up to their surrender in Hand of Thrawn. As such, you could incorporate such things as Reborn, Cloaking shields, females and aliens, SoroSuubPreybirds :rolleyes: and so on. Also have a whole bunch of cool heroes eg. Thrawn, Daala, Pellaeon, Desann, Iceheart....)

5. New Republic (a down-to-earth version of the old Republic, with not as much 'guerilla-ish-ness' as the Rebels. You could incorporate elements of both, making it the best of both worlds. But with its drawbacks tooo.)

6. Hmm... I'd like another 'neutral' civ, like the smugglers. I'd say Kaminoans, but they're part of republic (clones). I'd say Noghri, except they're too small- not in height, but just... civ size. (my personal idea is for them to be the new republic bounty hunter)
I'd say Chiss, except as i said in a different thread, there's not enough material about them that I've seen. oh well, no neutral.
For 6th, I'd like Cloud City. (it has all great stuff; bespin cops, aircars, twin pod thingys, etc. etc. Some of the buildings are even already in GB!)

jcb231
07-12-2002, 07:33 PM
Those are my top 9 from all 3 polls?

Weird...I was hoping for better choices. I have absolutely zero interest in a Chiss civ or Noghri or so on.

My personal top 6 would be--

I'm solid on these four and really, really want to see them:
-Ewoks
-Bespin/Cloud City
-Hutt Clan
-Mon Calamari

The next two I'm a little sketchy on, but the frontrunners are:
-Black Sun
-Corellians

Also, I'd like to see a Geonosian civ seperate from the Confeds, but that's really more of a sequel thing.

I'd also support a THIRD expansion pack that had the post Return of the Jedi civs....Imperial Remnant, New Republic, Yuzahn Vong, and Smuggler's Union.

MontyCora
07-13-2002, 03:13 AM
Well..I did spend like 20 mins writing a long response but the login thing messed up and I lost it. You get the short response


Civs I want in Game


1- Yuuzhan Vong

2- New Republic

3- Imperial Renmant

4- Black Sun/Smugglers

5- the Hutt Syndicate

6- I don't know some small civ........ like the Peace Birgade, but they could included in the Yuuzhan Vong civ as the bounty hunters and other thngs guess.
-----------------OR----------------
6- I just saw this on one of the other polls. The Hapes Consortium.

The Imperial Renmant would be like a scaled down and "crappified" version of Galactic Empire.

The Hutt Syndicate would be like all of the Hutt stuff put together or something.

Black Sun and the Hutt could have little Campaigns against each other.

The Yuuzhan Vong and New Republic would be fighting and could have Campaigns against each other for known reasons....


WOW! This took me like 3 mins.........

Crazy_dog no.3
07-13-2002, 05:27 AM
I choose the Hutts, because it is the one they were going to make.


EDIT: Looking at some of the other choices, I think the game would actually do without too many EU civs. Maybe 1 or 2. but not too many.
Also why create Imperial Remnant? They are basically the Empire! They both got stormies with Imperial Blasters, and the Tie Defender was even included for the fans by the devs.
And New Republic?!They both use the same fighters and have the same build style. Trooper uniform hasn't changed much either.
Finally, SEPARATE GEONOSIANS FROM THE CONFIDERACY?! WTF?! What will be the build style for them? They can't use the Trade Fed's !

CorranSec
07-13-2002, 06:21 AM
Crazy dog-- Vong, New Rep, Imperial Remnant and Smugglers Union are, as somebody said, post-ROTJ civs. More like updated versions of the old civs. Now they would be different, as technology has taken great leaps since the time of the Battle of Endor.
What's wrong with EU civs?
On the issue of EU, the 'hutt' civ is EU. All you see in the movies is some palace people and hangers-on, which maybe gives you ideas for troopers and the like, but there are about 4 hutts in all the movies and trust me, they would not make a good UU. ;)
Look at the ones in the game. Big fat thingys.
What would you do for buildings? Fighters? Mechs? Workers?
This is like the Chiss issue in that there's just not enough material. I'd like to see what LA was planning. Probably something insane.
I sorta agree with you on the confed/genosian issue, though not as... .vehemently. As individual races, they wouldn't work- not enough known about them independently. Without Genosians, what would the Confed UU and aircraft be? Without Confed, what would the Genosian Trooper be? Without Genosians, what would the Confed buildings be?
I don't support any breakaway ideas, as far as I know.



Monty Cora---- I like your picks. They're sorta like mine. Go Smugglers! :D
But... what's the Peace Brigade?
are they something in the Vong books? I'm out of date on them... they're not in the local library, somebody stole them all. :(

Compa_Mighty
07-13-2002, 07:49 AM
I agree with Crazy Dog, those civs look the same as other exisitng civs.

Anyway, each person has its favorites. One most of us seem to like is Mon Calamari.

CorranSec
07-13-2002, 07:54 AM
Weird... whatever happened to the Chiss as a big favourite?
Not a single vote.
Not that many votes all up, but still, not a single vote for the Chiss.
Maybe my cunning arguments convinced everybody to drop the Chiss idea :D
Compa, who exactly is most of us? No offense- I voted Mon Cal myself- but it's only tied for the lead. More people need to vote.

Compa_Mighty
07-13-2002, 08:18 AM
Well Corran, I said something about the Chiss in poll #2.... I think it's more logical to have Chiss workers than Smuggler workers, anyway, I think most people who voted in the other polls haven't voted in this one.

About the Mon Cal thing, although there aren't many votes here, many people in this forum wouldn't want Mon Cal if they could get 1 extra civ only. But if they could have 2, they'd go Mon Cal, in the same way, there are many poeple who would go Mon Cal as their first choice.

TheMadDoofer
07-13-2002, 10:10 AM
Definitely Mon Calamari. Just like the Gungans except not so annoying!

Compa_Mighty
07-13-2002, 11:55 AM
Cool Mad Doofer, Good choice! :p ;) But which would be your other 5?

Everyone else......... keep voting!

Darth Windu
07-13-2002, 12:02 PM
Ok, here's my opinion of the civ's-
1. The Hutt Clan - fantastic. A civ unlike any other that would have many differences in looks and abilities (ie strongest bounties)

2. Mon Calamari - part of the rebel's - besides i would prefer the game more movie, not EU based.

3. Chiss - who are they?

4. Bespin - what would you use? All we see are troops and fighter's. Could work, though i'd prefer the hutt's.

5. New Republic - Rebel's.

6. Black Sun - my second choice. Fairly similar to the hutt's.

7. Corellians - arent they humans? Either way they do equipment etc for everyone, so what would they use that would be unique?

8. Kaminoans - they are the republic droids. Also, what did we see of their military? Nothing.

9. Bounty Hunter's Guild - again, who are they?

jcb231
07-13-2002, 11:04 PM
1. Hutt Clan....would rock as a civ

2. Mon Calamari...enough units (B-Wings, Mon Cal Cruisers, etc) were shown in the movies to create a cool civ...at least as defined as the Wookies

3. Chiss...everything would have to be made up....I don't like these characters anyway, so I vote no Chiss. Chiss are the blue skinned aliens like the Confederate general in CC, or Grand Admiral Thrawn in the EU books. No way is thee enough material for a civ.

4. Bespin....troops (Bespin security), workers (ugnaughts), air vehicles, and tons of architectural elements are in the movie, as well as lots of ideas for unique abilities or research techs. Their navy, heavy weapons, and some mechs would have to be made up, but that's the case with most civs. No Navies except one Gungan submarine and one Naboo gondola appear in the movies, and no heavy weapons appeared for any civ before the Clone war part of ep II.

5. New Republic....they are NOT the rebels, anymore than the republic is the Empire, but I don't want to see them unless my most wanted civs (Bespin, Ewoks, Hutts, and Mon Cal) get in first....New Republic would be a "modern" version of the Old Republic, but with Rebel style troops (only more advanced), even better air, some cool naval forces, more elaborate architecture, etc....they are in charge of the galaxy now and their forces would show that level of sophistication.

6. Black Sun...very different from Hutts, but could be cool.

7. Corellians could also be very cool...yes, they are humans, but so what? Several game civs are mostly human. They make some of the ships for other civs in the movie, but nothing that really appears in the game right now....they could get freighters, smuggling bonuses, great air pilots, etc. Imagine a more permanent version of a Smuggler's union and you've got something.

8. Kaminoans--Not droids, they are the tall skinny aliens that make the clones. Would make a crappy civ, I agree. No military at all shown, and they have only one or two possible units seen i n the movie.

9. Bounty Hunter's Guild....dumb idea for a civ. They would tie in to the Hutts, and that could enhance a Hutt civ, but basically this is just a collection of mercenaries and bounty hunters, like a union of sorts. There fore there would be no buildings, mechs, heavy weapons, etc. Would be dumb to have Boba Fett, Dengar, etc all get together and make little farms.

6.

Crazy_dog no.3
07-14-2002, 12:04 AM
OK this is why there should be few (notice I said few, not none) EU civs: This game isn't gonna be popular with non-hardcore fans that way. I mean a regular guy goes into a game and sees a Vong player and would think "WTF?!"

I suppose a few EU civs could make it into a game, but no small groups like Kaminosians (Republic, remember), Corellians
( Wookiees have a corellian trading unit, and they are usually occupied by Rebels, Republic or Empire)

I actaully agree also with jcb(:eek: ) that bounty hunters would make a crap civ.


Oh yeah and I still hold my ground against a NR and IR civ.

Darth Windu
07-14-2002, 12:51 PM
I was thinking, with some of these civ's you would run into problems. I have only watched the movies, and im not interested in any EU stuff, none of that is familiar to me, and for the most part i dont like it, and im sure there are a lot more people around who have watched the movies than those who know the movies and EU. For most civ's, to include one, you have to include another (to battle in campaigns) so this is what i think.

1. Hutt clan - good partner would be black sun to battle over stealing things, assasinating each other etc - my favourite

2. Mon Cal - could be added as a single civ, but why would you want it, they are part of the rebel's and that it.

3. New Republic - would also need to add the imperial remnant and really, why buy a game with the rebels, new rep, empire, and imperial remnant?

4. Bespin - could also be added as single, fighting the empire but as we see in the movies they are neutral and are exclusively on cloud city.

5. Chiss/Kaminoans/Corellians/Bounty guild - extremely difficult to put into the game. Chiss unheard of, Kam's work for republic and no military, cor's work for anyone, bountie's work for anyone.

Compa_Mighty
07-14-2002, 01:51 PM
Mon Calamari are largely depicted in EU, they were important before joining the Alliance.

Long before you arrived we discussed the campaign could be before they joined the Alliance and ending with the Battle of Mon Calamari, the battle after which they joined the Rebels, and they recovered their planet.

Smuggler's fixed economy?

Darth Windu
07-14-2002, 02:00 PM
well as i said, im not an EU sorta person, never read any of the books etc. With what you said it could be possible, still i just dont see them as a good entire civ. But thats just my opinion.

Crazy_dog no.3
07-14-2002, 04:29 PM
Mon Cals and Hutts, they seem the most sensible out of all of those.

Oh, and the Transdoshans from GB could be developed more.

Compa_Mighty
07-15-2002, 11:36 AM
I agree about Trandoshans.

jcb231
07-15-2002, 08:44 PM
But you see, Trandoshans are COMPLETELY made up for the game and EU stuff...there was only one in the movie, and he was a bounty hunter.

I still say that Mon Cals would make a great civ, because they have their own tech style seen in the movies, as well as some of the cooler ships like B-Wings. If Wookies can be a civ, so can Mon Cal.

A Cloud City civ would only exist on Bespin, but the Gungans and Naboo only exist on Naboo yet they appear in the game, so who cares? Besides, I think its more reasonable for a mining/trading civ like Cloud City to expand its influence in search of new markets than it is for the Gungans to leave their swamps for off-world colonization.

Corellians do not "work for anyone." They have their own society, they just happen to be shipbuilders as one of their major traits. They would be strongly EU, granted, but could be cool after all the movie civs were already used.

I don't think a full Black Sun civ would be necessary to add the Hutts....it might be cool to play as them, but I think that maybe just a few special units (like what was done for the Trandoshans) might be incorporated into the toybox and some campaigns as enemies...that would be enough.

Not many people have commented on Ewoks here. Along with Cloud City and the Hutt crime Organization they are the only civ left to add with any true degree of movie-based elaboration. Mon Cals are elaborated on a bit in ROTJ, but just a little bit. I have some posts on this topic (as do many other people) on version #2 of the civ poll.

Compa_Mighty
07-16-2002, 02:52 AM
Well, I agree jcb, it seems like the most possible civ would be the Mon Calamari :mon: YAY! :p

MIK8454
07-16-2002, 10:37 AM
ok, the 6 new cis should be

1. mon cal
2. yu vong
3. black sun
4. hutts
5. bespin/ new republic/ imperial remnant
6. bespin/new republic/ imp remnant ( i cant hitnk of anythign else to put instead

mon cal- would have good sea and air, and all that good stuff, would be nothing like rebels

yuuzhan vong- wouldhave the good troops, the good air, regenerate all their stuff cus its organic, and be good really good against jedi

black sun- virago fighter, little dark sneaky troops, liei the hutts, but different looking

hutts- liek weequay or amorrean troops, rancors, that sort of stuff

bespin- i know this sounds crazy, but u got to admit, it would be cool, they could have their whole city floating, farms, turrets, buildings nd everything, and it could move (really, really, really slowly) but it could move, so u could have a moving base, then cloud cars and what not and all that good stuff that everyone else said

new reopublic- who knows, i just couldnt think of anything better to put, i gues they could have better jedi air and troops, but like no navy, and or things worse than nrmal rebs

imperial remnant- i guess u could make it equal to the empire, it would be against continuity, but who cares, i like the reborn idea, like make trhat their unique unit maybe, give them better troops,i dont know what the troops would looklike, i guess it would have ot be stormtroopers, but oh well

i really dont like the idea of ewoks, but i think that is just because i dont like ewoks in general, now im goin, cus i cant believ ei typed this much

MIK8454
07-16-2002, 10:41 AM
sorry bout the bad spelling, i do tht when i type for a while, and i've been on for like 3 hours cus i cant find anything to do tonight, so yeah, its gotten prety bad, and im too lazy to fix it, sothat doenst help

Jona19
07-17-2002, 11:03 AM
They need an ewok civ. the ewoks need more representation than simon the killer ewok who is only a code character anyway.

Ewoks will triumph!!!!!!:ewok:

Darth Windu
07-17-2002, 11:25 AM
Frankly, i see the introduction of the New Republic, Imperial Remnant, and Yung Vong as impossible. As i said in a previous post, why would you want-
-Rebels
-New Republic
-Empire
-Imperial Remnant
In the game? Also, the Vong would be very difficult to put into the game because they are organic.

JCB - remember this,
-bespin = city, Naboo = planet
-Naboo/Gungans civilisations, Bespin = mining site for workers
-Naboo led by elected leader, Bespin controlled by businessman

I really dont see how Bespin would make a good civ, but overall the civ's i can see being added to the current 8 would be-
-Hutt's
-Mon Calamari
-Black Sun

jcb231
07-17-2002, 12:20 PM
Windu....Bespin IS a planet...the name of the city is Cloud City.

Cloud City is much more than a mining colony, although that is what they started out as and is their major purpose....they have their own security forces (akin to the Naboo for defense) they have major tourist destinations and their own government and so on...they are a fully functioning civilization that is run like a business.

And why can't a civilization be run like a business? The Trade Federation is, so are the Confeds.

On another note, I'm not a huge Yuzahn Vong fan, but why can't an organic civ be in a RTS game? Ever played Starcraft? The Zerg were organic and weird and fit into that game really well.

Also, are you against ewoks, I take it? Ewoks are one of my top four most-wanted civs.

Darth Windu
07-17-2002, 01:00 PM
As i said though, cloud city isnt a civilisation! All it is, is a place for miner's to work and as a sorta 'hideout'. As for the ewoks, im not so sure about them, i just dont see how ewok's would be able to, for example, battle the Republic on Sarapin.

jcb231
07-17-2002, 05:20 PM
Why is a thriving, large, powerful organization not a viable civilization for the game? It has its own distinct styles of technology and architecture, which could be extrapolated upon for the game....its probably got more raw material to work with for game developers than some of the civs currently in the game.

Oh, and the Ewoks could battle the Republic the same way they battled the Empire in Return of the Jedi.

Kryllith
07-17-2002, 09:43 PM
I don't have a problem with "Bespin" being a civilization, though I probably wouldn't call it the "Bespin" civilization but something more generic, like The Mining Guild. And certainly, if there can be a civilization based around trade (Trade Federation) there shouldn't be any problem basing it on mining (which also constitutes trading).

As for the Ewoks, I think Windu's point was to focus on Serapin, not who they were fighting. The Ewoks can fight decently on Endor because it's in an environment conducive to their style of fighting (ie, lots of trees). In a barren world like Serapin, Tatoonie, or Hoth, they'd have problems...

Kryllith

Lord Fergie
07-18-2002, 12:21 AM
the bounty hunters would be good
ugly mean loking creatures with a special ability each kind
like the rocket packs, hey even one that when he kills peole he earns money for you as he collects his bounty

jcb231
07-18-2002, 12:41 AM
Yeah...Bespin civ needs a better name. However, they are not part of the mining guild...they say so in the movies. Howabout "Bespin Security" or some such?

Regarding Ewoks...why would they have any more problems than Gungans do on a non-water world? The game could establish Ewok civ characteristics so that they offer a balanced play option on any map. I would propose traits include fast worker creation, hunting and fishing and berry gathering bonuses, much cheaper but less powerful mech and heavy weapons units, weak air, reasonably strong troopers and fantastic mounties, great scouts with advanced scout options such as stealth, an average navy, great fish collecting units, and devious trap setting unique units. Medicine Men could also be highly effective medics that could also be used as combat units, and workers in general could have slightly stronger hand to hand combat bonuses than most civs, as all Ewoks should have hunting and fighting skills. A building stealth tech could reflect the Ewoks camoflage and hiding abilities...it could be applied to certain structures such as prefab shelters.

Ewoks could also have a campaign that pits them against the Marauders (seen in the Ewok movies) in an attempt to secure their lands against attack, and then follows through to some initial skermishes with the Imperials as they establish the Death Star shield base. The Marauders could be incorporated into the game in much the same way that the Trandoshan Slavers are now....as toybox units and campaign enemies. Endor animals could also be added to the mix, such as the Gorax, Condor Dragon, or Boar-Wolves. These could be placed on Endor maps to add some wildlife.

Ewoks
Medics=Medicine Men
Assault and Strike Mechs=variations on Ewok Battle Wagons
Mounties=Ewok Ponies
Unique Units=Trap-Setters and Yuzzums
Troopers=Ewok Warriors
Heavy Weapons=variations on Catapults and siege weapons
Navy=rafts and sailing ships with catapults and fire weapons
Air=gliders, baloons, and dirigibles

Above all, I think this civ would be tons of fun to play. And isn't that the whole point? Yes, the "realism" may be stretched a little, but that's already done throughout the game.

Compa_Mighty
07-18-2002, 04:44 AM
You know, there are so many different races in Star Wars, but not everyone can make this game. Remember a civ for this game must have:

-Workers
-A Fixed economy
-Buildings
-A settled group
-Organized military with different ranks
-Defensive structures

Hutts, Black Sun could have this thiings made up, but they wouldn't be convincing.

Bounty Hunters are simply impossible.

Bespin..... I don't like it, cause they don't have an army just a body of police men. Anyway it could be done.

Yuuzhan Vong: they'd need some adaptation ti make them playable, but are a great choice.

Chiss, Mon Calamari, from my point of view are the two civs that stick to gameplay the most, even the Noghri and Ewoks could make it.

When you suggest a civ, take into account the points at the beginning of this post.

CorranHorn328
07-18-2002, 10:16 AM
I'd like to see the Chiss. They are very interesting. Buy you could combine the Imperial Remnant with the Chiss. The New Republic is good, too, and I like the Peace Brigade idea. Vong are a must for an EU expansion, I must say. Mon Calamari are too. Another X-Pack without Mon Cals as a civ, and many people will be unhappy... for more ideas for civs, visit this SWGB Heaven thread:

http://swgb.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=1,1381,0,10

The Mandalorians from The Sith War could really be expanded on. Also, Hapes would be good, and so would the Bothans, I think.

jcb231
07-19-2002, 12:19 AM
Why is fixed economy a requirement?

Anyway...Ewoks, Bespin, Mon Cals, and Hutts have all those things.

So the Hutt army is a group of mafia thugs....they're still highly organized. A Hutt civ would be convincing...far more so than many other proposed civs.

And I hate to break it to you, but the Naboo have no army either, just a band of security volunteers...says so in the movie. Therefore Bespin would be in about the same situation.

Bespin/Ewoks/Mon Cal/Hutts

Workers? Ugnaughts, Ewok Workers, Mon Cal Workers, and Droids

Fixed Economy? Not sure how this applies to gameplay, as the economic dealings in the game really just extend to spaceport trading and tributes, which any civ can do....so Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes

Buildings? Cloud City Structures, Ewok Huts and Tree Forts, Mon Cal style Water Buildings, and Hutt Palace/Tatooine style structures

Settled Group? Yes, Yes, Yes, and Yes

Organized Military with Diff Ranks? I'm not sure how the ranks come into play as that is not a factor in the current version of GB, but all four have armies of some sort. Bespin=Security Forces, Ewoks=Ewok Army, Mon Cal=Mon Cal Army/Defense Force, Hutts=Hutt Clan Crime Organization Army

Defensive Structures? Cloud City Turrets, Ewok Traps and Watchtowers, Mon Cal Turrets, and Hutt Turrets

So basically, I'm not seeing how this limits any of my civ choices...it also doesn't eliminate Black Sun, or Yuzahn vong, or the Corellians, or New Republic, or Imperial Remnant, or many other discusssed civs. It does eliminate Chiss if you want to have anything to pull from, EU wise. Same with Noghri....the source material would be scarce indeed. While I never like to say that any civ is impossible, I do think that the Chiss and the Bounty Hunters Guild would not be good civs....too much would have to be fabricated for the game and it wouldn't feel like SW after a point. And besides, the Bounty Hunter's Guild isn't really a true civilization as they have no home bases or many of the other civ characterisitics or central leadership, in the sense of the others discussed here.

People downplay Ewoks because they don't like them, but they really are a well developed civ in the movies....certainly as much as the Gungans or other GB civs.

Darth Windu
07-19-2002, 04:47 PM
For the Hutts

Workers = Jawa's, moisture farmers, droids
A Fixed economy = gambling, trade
Buildings = very unique Tatooine architecture
A settled group = Hutts, Tusken Raiders, Jawas
Organized military with different ranks = Sandpeople, bounty hunters
Defensive structures = made up for every race

jcb231
07-20-2002, 08:42 AM
I don't like the idea of incorporating jawas and tuskens into the Hutts....they work better as wild people I think.

The Hutts have plenty of troop types shown in ROTJ. They don't need tuskens and jawas too.

CorranSec
07-20-2002, 01:16 PM
Hutts shouldn't include jawas and tuskens. Where did that crazy idea come from?
I've already shown my support for Ewoks, but not over my other favorite civs.
What's the Peace Brigade?
Chiss and Bounty Hunters are the most impossible.

Bespin..... I put this as a favorite, but I agree, don't call it "bespin" or "cloud city". Cloud City got toppled anyway, I think. By Ninedenine. Or did they fix that?
maybe the "tibanna gas mining people.." ok maybe not.
"Bespin Security Force" is too bespin-ish. They would stay at bespin.
"Bespin Mining Guild?" what exactly did they say in the movie that showed them not as a mining guild? Anyway names can be changed, nobody said every single naboo was royalty but they're still the "Royal Naboo."

Imp Remnant and New Republic are.... updated versions of the Rebels and Empire. It incorporates a third time period into the GB timeline.
If New Republic vs. Rebels is weird, how about Old Republic vs. rebels!? or confederacy vs. empire!?
Reality can be stretched for gameplay reasons.

Darth Windu
07-20-2002, 02:09 PM
With the Hutt's in ROTJ, there are Jawa's and Tusken Raiders in Jabba's palace, besides they are very tatooiney and the tusken could provide the troops, mounted troops etc, while you could also use the sandcrawler.

With the Rebels, New Republic, Empire, Imperial Remnant. This is stupid. Sorry to have to say it but i cant think of any other word that would describe it that well. Why have carbon-copies of civs already in the game? Besides, as i have said before, it should be more movie, not EU based.

jcb231
07-20-2002, 04:12 PM
Windu....there are indeed jawas seen in Jabba's palace (or at least just one Jawa), but they are merely hangers-on of the court, out to scavenge and pick pockets. Jawas seem as common on Tatooine as rats on earth. They are not part of his employ. There are no Tusken Raiders in his palace and I challenge you to find proof that there are. Jabbas forces have plenty of troops and units to pull from without needing Tusken Raiders and Jawas as filler.

I agree that movie based civs should come before EU civs, but the New Republic is not a carbon copy of Rebels or Old Republic...it is a distinctly different civ, just as Imperial Remnant is distinctly different from Galactic Empire. To say they are the same does nothing but reveal an unfamiliarity with the source material. While I admit they're not my first choices and that I am not a huge EU expert, I know enough about them to realize how different they are, and that it's not stupid to want a different civ.

Oh, and CorranSec, in answer to your question...in ESB Leia asks Lando if Cloud City's part of the Mining Guild...he says no, they prefer to stay independent...or something along those lines. Also, just because every Naboo citizen is not royalty doesn't mean they don't live in a monarchy...hence they are all citizens of a crown state and their forces can rightfully be christened "Royal."

Darth Windu
07-20-2002, 08:42 PM
Look, as i said adding the New Republic and Imperial Remanant to a game that already has the Rebel's and empire WILL NOT WORK. Also, the Hutt's would represent a tatooine civilisation, just as the Republic is coruscant, so why not add things like tusken raiders and Jawa's? In my opinion it would give them a more unique and tatooine feel to them.

CorranSec
07-21-2002, 04:07 AM
Jcb, thankyou so very much. You took the words right out of my mouth. You're completely right. Thanks for clearing up that "mining guild" issue as well. do you have any other ideas for names for the Bespin civ?

Windu. Please.
The hutts are not Tatooine! I've seen about 5 hutts on tatooine! That's all the movies and EU!
Jawas and tuskens don't work with anyone. Jawas might trade, but tuskens are solitary. It's impossible to imagine them with the Hutts.
The stuff the hutts live in on Tatooine is not 'theirs'. Jabbas palace was originally the home of the B'omarr Monks. So it's the b'ommar architecture anyway.
Hutt home planet is Nal Hutta. Not even their original home planet- i think it's dead, stripped of its resources by the Hutts.
Coincedentally, right next to Nal Hutta is Nar Shadaar, a possible home of the Smugglers Union. Ahh.... campaign ideas forming already......
Read the Han Solo trilogy. Lots of hutty info in there.
Speaking of that, in those books, the hutts- at least Desiljic, which i think is jabba's clan... maybe not.... seem to work closely with the t'landa Til, eg. Teroenza, who are there fellow inhabitants of Nal Hutta.
They would be a reasonable part of the Hutts.

You think Imp Remnant, New Rep, Rebels and Empire is crazy? What we've already got- Old Rep, Gungans, Rebels, Empire, etc. is crazy. But everyone's dealing with it.
This has been said before.... New Rep and Imp Remnant are completely different to the Rebels and Empire. Different time period. Well, not completely different, but completely different situation.

Enough said. For one post anyway.

Edit: nobody has answered my question!
(and my post was after Jcb's. Odd. :confused: )
Anyway....
What Is The "Peace Brigade"!?

Darth Windu
07-21-2002, 04:34 AM
Look, as Qui-Gon says in episode 1 'tatooine is controlled by the hutts' - there is the evidence. Also, civs are built around planets.
Republic/Empire = Coruscant
Naboo/Gungans = Naboo
Wookies = Katishak (their home)
Confederacy = Geonosis
The only ones who arent are the rebels and TF, that is why i said the hutts would be a good tatooine civ, and it should therefore include tusken raiders, bounty hunters, the hutts, and jawa's.

As for the Imperial Remnant/Empire, New Republic/Rebel issue, THEY ARE TOO SIMILAR. Also, the NR and IR are just slightly updated versions of the civs in the game (dont even think about arguing Republic/Empire, completely different). Also, this game should and will be MOVIE BASED and since the NR and IR dont appear, why put them in?

PS: reason i say movie based is everyone knows the movies, only devoted fans know EU which means there is a larger market for movie-based.

CorranSec
07-21-2002, 04:53 AM
Windu. Honestly.

"There are jawas and Tuskens in Jabbas palace"....

If a Naboo was in the Reupblic (imperial) Palace, or a Gungan in Theed Palace, does that automatically mean that naboo are part of the Republic's army and the Gungans are the Naboo mounted troopers? give me a break........

Tatooine is one of many planets that the hutts happen to have dug their claws- err, umm, fat fleshy fingers- into.
Nal Hutta is their homeworld. It is the world they are 'based around,' so to speak.
Thousands of worlds are 'controlled by the Old Republic, Empire, New Republic,' so to speak, but that doesn't mean that they come from there.

On the topic of 'based around'-
Coruscant- Empire, Republic, New Republic
Naboo- Royal Naboo, Gungans
Kashyyk- (katishak? what the..) Wookies
Confederacy- soorta Geonosis I guess. The confederacy is actually the Confederacy of Independent Systems, so it's more like the Republic in that it's lots of worlds. Geonosis i don't believe is their actual 'seat of government'- it's just where there staunchest allies, the Genosians, are. I think.
Nemoidia and, sorta, Geonosis- Trade Fed.
Unlocated- Rebels, Imperial Remnant, black sun (bs maybe coruscant)

I could go into great detail about 'home planets', eg....
Bespin- Bespin people (unnamed)
The chissy place in Hand of Thrawn, I guess- Chiss
Nal Hutta- Hutts
Nar Shaddar, possibly- Smugglers Union
Mon Calamari- Mon Cal. duh.

Et cetera.

but the point i'm trying to make is that
Hutts
Aren't
Tatooine!

jcb231
07-21-2002, 05:15 AM
Windu, do you even read posts before you reply?

I have said many many times that I think movie civs should come first, but AFTER the movie civs were added I would have no problems with adding in New Republic, Imperial Remnant, Smugglers Union, etc.
And regarding Imperial Remnant/Empire and New Republic/Rebels.....THEY ARE NOT TOO SIMILAR!!!!!...I scream for the eight billionth time....
The New Republic is as different from the Rebels as the Old Republic is from the Empire, likewise with the Imperial Remnant and Empire. So yes, I am going to argue it that way, because its the logical way to argue it. Yes, I agree that your average gamer doesn't have a huge familarity with non-movie civs, but I have clearly said that EU civs would be reasonable to add only after movie civs were dealt with, as a way of further expanding the civs in the game. Also, Wookies as shown in GB ARE an EU civ.... Besides a couple Wookie senators that appeared in Ep I, only one Wookie appeared in the movies, and no elements of his civilization appeared at all.

Also, CorranSec AND Windu (weird, never thought I'd lump the two of you together) civs do not need to be based around a planet at all...Trade Federation isn't really, neither is Confederacy...they take up many worlds. Even the Republic and the Empire are only capitalled on Coruscant, not totally based around it.

Oh....and I have no clue what the Peace Brigade is, by the way.

jcb231
07-21-2002, 06:35 AM
NO....jeez.
Tuskens and Jawas are not part of the Hutt organization, any more than stormtroopers are part of the gungans. Convenient how you ignore any points made previous to your post.

Hutts are not a Tatooine exclusive civ....that's just a good choice for their architectural style, as they live and work in those types of buildings and seem to like them. Tatooine is not the Hutt homeworld at all, just a planet they control to some extent.
Republic isn't just a Coruscant civ....it is a GALACTIC republic.

And why wouldn't adding two completely different civ from Rebels and Empire to the game work? For the millionth time, New Rep and Imperial Remnant are completely different from Rebels and Empire. As different as Republic is from Empire or Trade Federation is from Confederacy.

EDIT: Why, no matter how many posts are added, does this post seem to keep being the most recent? Weird.

CorranSec
07-22-2002, 02:13 AM
Yeah, jcb. I know. Planets of origin, whatever, don't have anything to do with the civ.

Compa_Mighty
07-24-2002, 05:25 PM
Mon Calamari are winning the Poll, so as you may see they're the most wanted Civ :mon:



Edited: Sorry, I had to take a way a stupid thing I said, thanks for pointing it out CorranSec

ibballin
07-24-2002, 06:11 PM
i think the jawas would be a cool idea. also im not to fimilar with all the civilizations but i think where ever darth maul comes from would be cool. a whole civilization of mauls? that would be cool

Darth Windu
07-26-2002, 12:37 AM
Hutts-
-unique architecture (so i cant spell, sue me...)
-different from any other civ
-represent a very important planet is star wars (Tatooine)
-heaps of unique 'people' such as the bounties, jawas, tuskens etc

New Republic-
-rebel units
-rebel architecture
-overall, same as rebels

Imperial Remnant-
-Empire units
-Empire architecture
-overall, same as Empire

so i ask, why include the New Republic and Imperial Remnant, which are the same as two existing civs, where you can add completely different civs such as the Hutts, Black Sun, and Mon Calamari? (yes Compa, you convinced me its a good idea)

CorranSec
07-26-2002, 01:23 AM
Eizo... maybe. I've heard of the Mandalorians. But that's a bit out of the time zone of all the GB civs existing, and it would be really odd to balance properly without it seeming weird... and is there a lot of existing material about it?

Windu. As jcb said. Do you even read other posts before you post?
Hutts....
- what is their architecture? Not Tatooine, certainly... we've been over this before... and i think you spelt it right... architecture...
- all civs are different. Did you not notice this?
- do NOT represent Tatooine, as this is one of many planets they control, and their homeworld, if any, is Nal Hutta
- 'unique' people... ALL civs have unique kinds of units etc, and the ones you proposed are incorrect, not Hutt if any civ, and plain crazy.
Bounties... huh? bounty hunters? why do hutts have them? everyone has bounty hunters......
Jawas... we've been over this before! Hutts are not Tatooine, Jawas would not form an organised fighting force, let alone work with the hutts.
Tuskens!?
Same thing! Hutts are not Tatooine, Tuskens (though they may fight together) would fight against the Hutts if anything, and would definitely not work for them in the slightest, let alone take orders from them.


New Rep-
- NOT rebel units, an example could be having the E-Wing as a fighter, different troops (many possibilities there), R5s as workers (real R5s not r2s named r5s), more varied and different looking Jedi, if Jedi are ever modified, Mon Cal or some kind of cruiser for the Air Cruiser, some kind of SoroSuub ship or a K-Wing for the bomber, maybe Quarren-ish ships (this is assuming Mon Cal is not a civ), any new kinds of mechs (the Rebel ones aren't canon anyway, as far as I know)... etc.
- NOT rebel architecture, more like Coruscant-ish, Old Rep architecture if like anything, could incorporate architecture from all the different cultures in the New Rep as according to what building produces.. eg. Sullustan looking airbase (for SoroSuub production), Quarren shipyard.... etc.
Overall, unless Windu completely ignores this post, nobody can deny that the New Republic has major differences to both the Rebels and the Old Republic.

Imp Remnant-
- NOT empire units, an example could be having the Assault Gunboat as a fighter, guys that look like the Commandos/Officers out of JK2 as troopers, differently designed Mechs, Ships, everything else... LA can think of anything!
- NOT empire architecture, it would be more of the 'guerrila warfare' look of the original Rebel architecture, if anything.
Overall, unless Windu completely ignores this post... you know the drill.

CorranSec
07-26-2002, 02:30 AM
Compa. Really. Who precisely has been making points about the Hutts?
Apart from jcb and I showing how any of Windu's ideas about the Hutts are completely incorrect, I don't think anybody has proposed any Hutt stuff. Unless you support Windu. if you do.... :atat: (shoots you)
"Whats the point of adding New Rep and Imp Remnant?"
What was the point of adding Confederacy and Republic?
We are in a new age, and this can be shown with these new civs. The 'rebels' are now the established government, the New Republic and as such wouldn't have the unfixed, outpost-ish, terrorist, raiding, etc. look and tactics of the Rebel Alliance. They would be more like the Republic than the Rebels, at least the way I see it.
They're fighting a completely new enemy- the Imperial Remnant. Completely different to the original Empire, they are not the main established power. This civ could incorporate much of the 'empire' shown in books after the capture of Coruscant by the Rebels. They would have different technology, units and strategies- they might not use the same "brute force" (lets kill em all with At At masses) tactics of the original Empire, and though they might have the same Stormtroopers, there would be many other noticeable differences. I won't give you a list, as other fans would have very different ideas to mine and I don't want to contradict them.
Sure, these are EU based civs, but so basically is Mon Cal.

Chiss and Noghri- These, along with maybe the Bounty Hunters Guild, are IMHO the least possible civs to incorporate.
Chiss. I've said it before. I've had huge discussions about it. I shall say it again, and from now on refer back to this post.

Chiss- they may be a nice idea, but where'd you draw the material from?
The Thrawn trilogy. Yay. A single Chiss. What does it show about them? Or more appropriately, about this single chiss? He's a freakishly good war tactician who likes art. :thrawn:
The Hand of Thrawn. Ok, some more chiss. I read it ages ago, but what does it show? Some more freakishly good Chiss warriors. And a big hand thingy. (correct me on that if I'm wrong) ;)
Other than that- a bartender in JK2, Jedi Outcast. Shows there are all kinds of Chiss. Including seedy, corrupt, incomprehensible bartenders. I'm sure they'd make a great unique unit.
Not to diss the Chiss- or any other civ- but for some of the less mentioned ones, WHERE are you going to base all the GB stuff for them on?
At least Mon Cal, Imp Remnant, New Rep, Smugglers and even Noghri show signs of having- I think you made a list of neccesary things for a civ- a working economy, examples of architecture, units, etc. to draw upon. Not Chiss.
Noghri. Well, we all love the Noghri. We all- at least those who have read anything about them- also know that they are amazingly, and utterly, deadly.
An entire civ of cold-blooded, sharp-minded, ferocious, subtle, silent, swift...
Killers.
Not to mention many of them have excellent piloting skills and would have some kind of a navy.
Unless you wanted to completely turn game balance on its head, and throw it out the window, and murder it, in a very terrible way, such as boiling it until its almost dead and then slowly removing its limbs, then crushing its torso and head in a garbage smasher, etc...
OR change the Noghri so much, and make them so much weaker than we know them to be, that they are practically unrecognisable as those from the books...
Noghri are impossible.
BUT my personal idea- and, as of many things, I've said it before- I think that Noghri would be a very cool Republic bounty hunter. OK, this is not our usual idea of Noghri-a huge bunch of them wielding blasters and taking out Jedi- but it's a lot better than a whole civ. And it'd be vaguely realistic (they must figure into the New Rep some way) and it would be fun to do.
Argh. Why is there no noghri emoticon? :(

Um. Iballin. No offense, but have you seen Ep 1? Do you know anything about the Sith?
Maul is a Sith. His planet.... I don't believe you knew this, but he is a Zabrak from Iridonia. I know nothing about the Zabraks, but I know that they are definitely not all like Maul. I don't even know whether they all have horns, or red skin, but the tatoos are Sith, not Zabrak.
An entire civ of Darth Mauls.... go into the Scenario Editor and put a huge army of Darth Mauls on the map, against some other civs base.
Mmm. Yes. Nice and balanced, a rather fair game all in all.

Honestly... I hope you were joking.

Darth Windu
07-26-2002, 02:48 AM
In my opinion, Tatooine needs to be represented as a civ, and the only civ that it can be represented by is the Hutts' Now dont start with this 'Nal Hutta' stuff, in the movies the hutts are only on tatooine, and as Qui-Gon says in ep1, tatooine is controlled by the hutts. Now tatooine is a very important planet in Star Wars with very distinctive and unique architecture, lifestyle and inhabitants. THAT is why there should be a Hutt civ.

eizo131
07-26-2002, 04:56 AM
CorranSec, The time laps I agree with, but if you look at the wookies in the movies all you see is chewie. If you look at mandolorians all you have is jango and boba. Both did not have structures or anything else in the movies. doesit make any sense??:fett: :jango: :slave: :confused:

eizo131
07-26-2002, 12:00 PM
I read heaven games and maybe a good civis would be Mandolorian guys it had an army at one time or another....:fett: :jango: :fett2:

Altus_Thrawn
07-27-2002, 04:55 PM
1. Chiss. I know there's not much info, but I like them so much I MUST have them in an expansion.

2.Vong. They are really cool and there's lots of info about them.

3. Hapes. There is a reasonable amount of info and they are pretty cool.

4. Mon Calamari. They are cool, but they would have to have some made up units.

5. Black Sun is cool, and a reasonable amount of info.

6.Kardde's orginazation.

Darth Windu
07-28-2002, 04:50 AM
what are the 'hapes'?

Also, i disagree about the chiss. There is NOTHING about them in the movies, except for a possible glipse of one, so what is there to build a civ with?

Compa_Mighty
07-28-2002, 10:21 PM
Corran, you KNOW I don't support Windu (no offense). Any way, you're right, I must have gotten confused.

I'll stick with Mon Calamari.

Just as a thought........ I don't think I would buy a New Republic/Imperial Remnant Expansion....... most people would just say, they're the same as Rebels and Empire........ and marketing is the most important point in this games..... just keep that in mind.

Darth Windu
07-29-2002, 02:03 AM
I agree about the not buying of an Imperila remnant/new republic expansion. To me it would just seem like a waste of money.

Also, whats so bad about supporting me? I still think the Hutt's should be put in as a new tatooine civ, if any new civ's are made.

DK_Viceroy
07-29-2002, 05:48 AM
i don't think that we should bother with a new republic just give the rebel allinace all their new fighters and give a variety of bonuses to other civilizationsand for youzzhan vong i changed my mind about them since i finished reading the book again they would have to destroy planets to make ships they are way to powerful to balance the game they would have to be putin as a shadow of their glory and for the empire and imperial remanent keep empire scrap this idea pf an imperial remanent instead give the empire a really expensive sheild upgrade Thrawn equipped tie innterceptors with sheilds and tweak their civ addingg new units taking some away though they already have some of those units though because did you know AT-PT's where designed by the old republic for use by the republic but they were lost on the Katana dreadnought fleet and thrawn found that fleet after the fall of the empire so in away the empire is already the imperial remanent Chiss definetly we know quite a bit about them they would have uniqu technology's like Chiss Intuition which would upgrade accuracy and make troopers or mechs or aircraft stronger but they would lose sensor array tech because they are a bit arrogant and they would have the best sith good air
standard sea similar to empire so much in the games has been made up there are no seas on geonosis yet the confeds shipyard is geonosian looking their are no seas obviously on courscat so what's the point of a republic Navy the chiss would have something like Sith purge alredy researched for them since they are a very devoted and finatical people maybe their fighters would look like /0o0\ all conected together chiss air would be good though because we know they are hyperspace capable because thrawn came to the empire and also they would have other technologies like Chiss it would add a much neeeded civ to the game their are going have these 8 in from segb and cc and they'll also have to add on another 8 so they'll have to pick good civs and their can't be a smugglers alliance in the game they wpuld need a fixed economy to build units they use ships what about mechs troopers buildings sea jedi sith ? the same pretty much applt to the black sun and hutts i'll give a list of what i think should be in swgb2

i'll explain why after the list

1. The Chiss {speciality = air troops mechs Sith }

2.The Mon Calamari {speciality = air sea Jedi }

3.Yuzzhan Vong {speciality = air troops heavy weapons }

4.Correlian Alliance { speciality = troops mechs sea }

5.Ewoks { speciality = sea troops heavy weapons }

6.Separtist Union { speciality = air mechs heavy weapons }

7.Givin { speciality = air troops economy }

8.Hapes Consortium { speciality = air jedi mechs }

1. the chiss would have the best sith beacause sev'rance tann was a very good sith all round they would have good air because thrawn went to the empire in a chiss ship and their homeplanet is along way away from courscant troops because they are a clever and strong strategic race and mechs because thrawn used a lot of chiss equipment conquoering the unknown regions not imperial equipment.

2 despite my opinointhey would be good they would have good sea rivalling that of the gunagns but their shipyards would be different to normal moncalamari buildings because it would be a quarren building and also they would have good air because they are shipbuilders and jedi because Clighal a mon calaamari is a jedi a good one at that.]

3.would be good as well they would have an aversion to mechs jedi and sea because they don't use mechanical things they are without a home planet they are space based and they are not in the force they are excellent at destorying buildings their air would have to be good since like i said they are spacebased

4.the correlians consider themselves seperate from the republic so they would be a good choice they have strong ground forces and beacuse their planets are 50% sea their navy must be good their troops will be good beacuse they make blasters and mechs

5.ewoks propably wouldn't work but they might they would have a speciality of heavy weapons but they would have to like like something out of aok so would thier troops but they are small and agile so their troops would be good and they have a good navy we know that beacsue they have lake villages in the MIDDLE of lakes.

6. the separatist union would be good because it would add more depth to the game they would have good air though because they too are based in space but would have good ground forces beacause people like the trade federation are members of it.

7. the givin are in the books we know what their ships liik like they are described it also tells us that half the ships in the galaxy are made by the givin so they would have the best air force in the game troops because the givin can survive in the vaccum of space for a while and they make weapons and their economy would be good because it is set up an unpredictable planet and they would have enhanced resoucre gather rates.

8.they would have good air because their air force killed an entire yuzzhan vong fleet bigger than the hapan fleet we know quite a bit about them too beacuse they are described about in the books they would have an equivalent of a jedi order because their priests are really force adepts and they would have good mechs because their consortium is like an empire and you can't build an empire without good ground forces.

sorry it's so long but it's important to get the right civs in for good reasons

darthfergie
07-29-2002, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
what are the 'hapes'?

Also, i disagree about the chiss. There is NOTHING about them in the movies, except for a possible glipse of one, so what is there to build a civ with?

And of course there is absolutly nothing about the Royal Hapan in the movies either.

I say you get screwed if you stick to cannon because so much is missing. Plus the afterstories are so great they should be cannon. EU rules! and I will NEVER submit in that arguement no matter how hard you try.

BTW, The Royal Hapan is a humanoid race (maybe human not entirely sure here) They live in a system that is guarded by several nebulas so they were discovered late and mostly kept to themselves. They are a very complex Monarchy with many relatives in the royal family openly attacking the Queen (also the Queen rules. The King is basically a diplomat and a Warchief) Since they have kept to themselves most outsiders are forcefully turned away by the Hapan Royal Navy, which is almost large enough to rival the New Republic's. Although they have a large navy they are usually somewhat behind on technology because of their nuetral relationship to all. (as seen in THe COurtship of Princess Leia, when the Hapans want Fast Repeating Cannon Tech) Teniel Djo (Queen) and Prince Isolder (King) had a duaghter who was a Jedi. Teniel Ka. IN the struggle with the Vong Teniel Ka went on to take the Queenship when her mother died.

They are one of the cooler races in SW EU behind the Vong and Chiss. And don't worry. Soon many things will be revealed about the Chiss. They are sure to join in against the Vong. Oh wait they won't be revealed because they arn't cannon...Your loss bud.

Compa_Mighty
07-29-2002, 01:34 PM
Great post DK_Viceroy. Let's hope they really do make another x-pack, and let's keep hoping that it is a big one (six more civs).

giantcorn
07-29-2002, 07:04 PM
i'd like to see an Amidalian race. what better way to attract more players than to have 100's of little Natalie Portman's running around kicking ass.

jcb231
07-30-2002, 02:50 AM
Add "in Princess Leia-style metal slave bikinis" to the end of that post and you've got something better.

:)

Sithmaster_821
07-31-2002, 09:44 PM
I think the Mon Cals would be the best bet. They had their own war with the empire and we've seen alot of their units. And unlike the Vong, Chiss, and Hapans, their primary interaction is done during the space the movies cover. Too many civs is bad (EE, AoK), because not all (actually very few) get played and there isnt alot of variety.

darthfergie
07-31-2002, 11:18 PM
Yes but their entire action is done in SPACE. Mon Cals are notorious ship builders. They are fragile. Even in their own environment (No can swim the waters of Mon Cal...because there's ALLWAYS a bigger fish). For a land based game Mon Cals would NOT be a good choice. Vong would have to top out on the best choice...simply because we know what they have. The books have detailed many of their units. We know their space units as equally as their land units partly because of the fact of a heavy Jedi intervention. So for a land game these are a perfect fit...except they don't fit the "Mold" LEC has set for GB.

Compa_Mighty
07-31-2002, 11:23 PM
Mon Calamari would work anyway.Just as wookiees.

Darth Windu
08-01-2002, 03:47 AM
Of course there should be two new civs, the Hutts and Mon Calamari.

Main reason is i think they have the most material to make a civ, and i also think that the civs should be kept within the movie's time boundries (ie no civs before ep1, or after ep6)

darthfergie
08-01-2002, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Compa_Mighty
Mon Calamari would work anyway.Just as wookiees.

Unfortunatly no. Wookies were already set up. They are a strong very physically powerful race. They kept up with technology and are good mechanics.

Mon Cal are a fragile race. Not really physically strong, but at least they have their wits about them. So far all we know about them is their Space worthyness. Footsoldiers almost seem out of the question...where as footsoldiers with the wookies was a given. So you have to create a totally new aspect of the Mon Calimari...the dirt side army. If this game had space units (besides the cheats) then this would be a different story...BUT it isn't this game is a ground heavy game...Mon Cals are a space heavy society.

Of course there should be two new civs, the Hutts and Mon Calamari.

Main reason is i think they have the most material to make a civ

Once again you missed Vong. Vong HAVE the MOST material to make a civ. The books detail many of their units both land and air. The Vong are equally powerful on land and air. They have been discribed better then either the HUtts or the Mon Cal you speak of. BTW, the only time I've EVER heard of Hutts banding together is when the Vong attacked Hutt Space...But do you know who did most of the fighting? The Human lackies. The small armies the various Hutts had built around themselves. I'd like to see a Hutt quick draw...I really would...Or a Hutt weilding a lightsaber and jumping around like Yoda*ROTFL* no I don't really think Hutts would be a good civ...all we have are personal yahts to go on. Do you want their Assault Mech to be the Sail Barge? If you remember it was blown apart from one hit of a turbolaser.

BTW, the Vong could fit the mold though...I tried working it out...they could indeed.

jcb231
08-01-2002, 01:02 PM
Vong are a decent idea, but I's still prefer to see all the movie civs dealt with first.

And Mon Cal do have ground troops...their commandos did a good job in the "Dark Empire" comics' Battle of Mon Calamari, and their ground troops were integral in the SW: Rebellion game. I do think that their weakest aspect would be troops, but by giving them excellent navy and air this would be dealt with easily.

And no one (I hope) is actually proposing that the actual Hutts fight...we're talking about a civ based on their thugs, guards, and mob soldiers, etc, with the actual Hutt species as the leaders....OF COURSE the civ would be made up of their lackeys...that's the whole point.

Still hoping for Bespin, Ewoks, Hutts, and Mon Cal....someday, someday.

Darth Windu
08-02-2002, 08:37 AM
thats right jcb, i mean with the Republic you dont see the senators fighting, so why would the hutts fight?

darth fergie - you conveniantly left off the part in my quote about civs being within the movie's time boundries. I really dont think that adding lots of EU races is a good idea, and if you look at the civs that have a presence during the timeline of the movies, the hutt's feature heavily, as do the mon calamari in the books.

jcb231
08-02-2002, 10:11 AM
The Hutts, Mon Cal, Ewoks, and Bespin all feature heavily within the movies.

Mon Cal are featured nicely in ROTJ...certainly if they can make a wookie civ they could make a Mon Cal civ...we see their ships, a fighter, and several members of their species in full military get-up. Add in the EU novels and especially hte comics and you've got a civ there.

darthfergie
08-02-2002, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
darth fergie - you conveniantly left off the part in my quote about civs being within the movie's time boundries. I really dont think that adding lots of EU races is a good idea

Too bad. I think they should be put in. I don't care one bit whether they are in the movies or not. Bering something decently interesting to GB. Because you must admit...playing through the Rep. and Conf. Campaigns was just drudging through another version of same old same old...and if you don't like EU...well sounds like a personal problem to me.

Heck instead of adding new civs make a GBII so that civs have differences. Only differences now are...some civs don't have certain units, and percentages of resources and build times are different (not that you can really tell unless you analyse it).

DK_Viceroy
08-02-2002, 04:29 PM
Chiss Government
The center of politics lies on the world of Csilla, deep within in Chiss Space. In the capital city Csaplar, the parliament and cabinet is located at the House Palace. Each of the outlying 28 Chiss colonies is represented with one appointed governor, or House leaders. There are four main ruling families: The Cspala, the Nuruodo, the Inrokini and the Sabosen. These families represent bloodlines that even predate modern Chiss civilisation. Every Chiss claims affiliation to one of the four families, as determined by tradition and birthplace. But in truth, the family names are only cultural holdovers. In fact have the Chiss bloodlines been mixed so much in the past, that every Chiss could claim affiliation to every of the families. And cause there are no rivalries between the families, a certain affiliation wouldn't affect day-to-day living.
Though the Cabinet handles much of the intricacies of Chiss government, all decisions have to be proved by one of the four families. Every family has a special section is to supervise: The Csala handle colonial affairs, such as resource distribution and agriculture. The Nuruodo handle military and all foreign affairs (Grand Admiral Thrawn was a member of this family!). The Inrokini handle industry, science and communication. Sabosen are responsible for justice, health and education.

The Chiss government functions to siphon important decisions up the command chain to the families. Individual colonies voice their issues in the Parliament, where they are taken up by departments in the Cabinet. Then they are finally distilled to the families. The parliament positions are democratically determined by colonial vote. Cabinet positions are appointed by the most relevant families.

The Csala´s most pressing responsibility is the distribution of resources to the colonies and the people of Csilla. This is so important, cause the Chiss have no finances. Everything is provided by the state.

The Chiss military is a sizeable force. The Nuruodo family is ultimately in charge of the fleet and the army. Because it has been never required to act as a single unit, it was split up into 28 colonial forces, called Phalanxes. The Phalanx operations are usually guided by an officer, who is appointed by the House Leader, called a Syndic. Separate from the Phalanxes, the Chiss keep a Expansionary Defence Fleet, which rather serves under the foreign affairs, than the military asset. This CEDF patrols the boarders of Chiss space, while the Phalanxes handle everything that slips past the Fleet. In times of Crisis, like the Ssi-ruuvi threat, or the more recent Yuuzhan Vong invasion, the CEDF draws upon the nearby Phalanxes to strengthen itself, and tightening boarder patrols. Though Fleet units seldom leave Chiss space, some forces had been seen fighting Vong, assisting the NR and IR Forces, like the famous 181st Tie Spike Fighter Squadron, under command of Jagged Fel. In the past, a significant portion of the CEDF, Syndic Mitth´raw´nuodo´s (Thrawn´s) Household Phalanx, has left the rest of the fleet to deal with encroaching threats. They, together with Imperial Forces guarded Chiss Space, though some of the ruling families would have called this act treason and secession. But they kept the knowledge of it hidden from the public.


Nirauan/The Hand of Thrawn
A rocky planet supporting sentient telepathic aviary creatures has long been the home of the Hand of Thrawn. This mysterious codename stood for the brain-child of the enigmatic Grand Admiral Thrawn. It was the codename of a secreted fortress maintained by a contingent of Chiss on the planet Nirauan. Grand Admiral Thrawn had left a large number of his race behind with distinct orders to await his return ten years after his departure. It was set up some twenty years before Thrawn's campaign against the New Republic. Voss Parck, a former Captain of the Imperial Navy and the first to encounter Thrawn, was put in charge of the fortress. Thrawn trusted him utterly and his faith was well placed. The caves and tunnels beneath the fortress were lined with cortosis ore, and a large population of ysalamiri were imported, in order to protect the compound from the new crop of Jedi Knights produced by Luke Skywalker's academy. During this space of time, these Thrawn-loyalists manufactured a huge assortment of weapons and warships armed and ready awaiting Thrawn's return. The existence of the fortress - which had five large towers, and resembled an up-turned hand - was a well-guarded secret until Mara Jade tracked one of the Chiss recon vessels back to Nirauan. After she was thought missing, Luke Skywalker followed her tracks to Nirauan and the two of them put a stop to Parck's plans for beginning a new campaign against the New Republic. The pair sabotaged his operation to clone Grand Admiral Thrawn and left the world after obliterating any means of space travel. On another note, before they left Nirauan, Luke and Mara found an operations nexus that housed a massive data bank which had mapped out the Unknown Regions, revealing another 250 sectors, all presumably part of the Chiss consortium. Whether or not these worlds were willing or subjugated members of the Chiss Imperium remains unclear.

The Unknown Regions

Originally considered areas of Imperial occupation beyond the universe controlled by the Old Republic, the Unknown Regions contain the vast majority of the known, though unexplored, galaxy. It is home to the Chiss and borders the Empire, now known as the Imperial Remnant.

Spike Leader

Jagged, third born of Baron Soontir Fel, enrolled in the military as was tradition in his family. Following in the footsteps of his father, Jagged Fel, became a member of the Chiss Expansionary Defense Force and soon rose to the top of his class, becoming flight, then squadron, and finally wing leader of Spike, the most deadly Chiss fighter wing in known space. His mother (presumed dead), was Wynssa Starflare. Before she became a famous actress, she was also known as Syal Antilles, General Wedge Antilles' older sister. Although she'd been missing for many years following the Battle of Brentaal, at which time her husband advised her to go into hiding, it has been assumed that she was taken care of by Grand Admiral Thrawn, who sent her to Chiss space for safety from Ysanne Isard. One point of interest is that Jagged was probably named for his mother's father, Jagged Antilles. Thrawn took care of Syal to provide Fel with an insentive to become loyal to him. During the Thrawn crisis, Fel went so far as to offer himself for Thrawn's cloning experiments. The last known information on Soontir Fel's whereabouts was that he was a commanding officer in Chiss space. It has been confirmed that Jagged's two older brothers both died in combat during their time with the Chiss Navy, but he still has one younger sibling in the care of a Chiss Phalanx House in his home sector. Known to his pilots as Spike Leader, he leads them into battle in defense of the Chiss Imperium/Consortium and its constituent Phalanx Houses. His first known contact outside of Chiss and Imperial Remnant territory was at Garqui, where he and his wing, in conjunction with Remnant forces, helped to repel a Yuuzhan Vong attack on the Ralroost, a New Republic Bothan Attack Cruiser recovering a recon team from the planet's surface. His last known whereabouts were helping in the defense of Ithor with Remnant and New Republic forces. It has been confirmed that while one of his squadrons returned to Chiss space, he and two of his own squadrons remain with the New Republic and are working to repel the Yuuzhan Vong with Rogue Squadron at Kalarbra, Rodia, and elsewhere.

Gilad Pellaeon
An Imperial Navy Captain in command of the Chimaera, Pellaeon took the remnants of the Imperial fleet and retreated from the Battle of Endor. He had no desire to lead the Empire, but he felt it was his duty to keep the Imperial fleet together. Thus, when Grand Admiral Thrawn emerged from the Unknown Regions to take control of the Empire, Pellaeon was more than willing to turn the fleet over to Thrawn, despite Thrawn's obviously alien background. He served Thrawn well, respecting the alien's uncanny insights while providing tactical assistance when necessary. Following the death of Thrawn at the hands of his own bodyguard, the noghri, Rukh, Pellaeon took Thrawn's remaining ships and fled to the Core Systems, where he came in contact with High Admiral Teradoc. The two marshalled a large fleet of Victory-class Star Destroyers, and rivaled Warlord Harrsk for leadership of the Imperial forces for a number of years. When Admiral Daala showed up and tried to combine the strengths of the feuding warlords, Pellaeon sided with Daala, who only wanted to restore the Empire. The two of them arranged a summit of all the warlords on Tsoss Station, but were forced to poison them all when they failed to cooperate. Pellaeon became Daala's first officer, and was placed in command of the remaining seventeen Imperial-class Star Destroyers. He was to be the primary attack force that assaulted the Jedi Academy on Yavin 4. His attack was perfect, slipping into the system before the Jedi knew it. However, his Imperial conditioning failed to prepare him for the power of the Force. The Jedi, under the focus of Dorsk 81, used the Force to physically fling the entire Star Destroyer fleet out of the Yavin System, knocking out navigational systems and hyperdrive capability on his entire fleet. Pelleaon was able to recover all his ships, as well as Admiral Daala's escape pod, before leaving the Yavin System. After Daala's rescue, she resigned her command, and turned control of the Imperial fleet over to him. He did not want to rule the Empire, but the people needed a strong leader to hold it together and unify it once more. He took the fleet back to the Core Systems to regroup. Pellaeon assumed the position of Supreme Commander of the Imperial Navy, and worked against all odds to rebuild the fleet. He spent several years trying to overcome the problems with the cloaking device, and eventually tested the Computer Combat Predictor. However, its inability to truly aid in a cloaked fight was the last straw in the back of the dwindling Imperial war machine. He suggested to Moff Disra, one of the most influential Moffs left in the Empire, that the Imperial remnants should negotiate a surrender with the New Republic some ten years after Thrawn's death, hoping to obtain amnesty rather than execution. Although the majority of the Moffs were in agreement with the plan, Disra's own machinations kept him from wholeheartedly agreeing. Pellaeon began his attempts to contact the Republic by sending Colonel Vermel to meet with Garm Bel Iblis, but Disra captured Vermel before his message was fully delivered. Pellaeon, meanwhile, waited for Bel Iblis as Pesitiin, where Disra sent Zothip and the Cavrilhu Pirates to ambush him. Pellaeon's forces dispatched the pirates and realising someone had tried to deceieve them, continued to wait for Bel Iblis. However, Bel Iblis was on a mission to Yaga Minor, so it was Ghent who actually received the truncated message from Vermel. He brought the message to Leia Organa-Solo, who agreed to meet with Pellaeon. Their initial talks were tentative but promising, and both agreed to return to their sides and meet at a later date. Meantime, Pellaeon and Commander Dreyf discovered Disra's plans, and began to press the matter with the Moff, who was later incarcerated, as his web of disception slowly unfurled and his treachery was made public. His next appearance did not occur for another year. He had his hands full putting the Empire back together after yet another governmental reform. Planetary leaderhsip changed over once more, but Pellaeon remained the one constant, whom the Empire had faith in. This support would be shaken after he made public his decision to render aide to the New Republic in striking against the Yuuzhan Vong. In a meeting with Ambassador Leia Organa Solo, Pellaeon was made aware of the Yuuzhan Vong, an extragalactic race of genocidal predators. The Empire and the Moffs disliked this decision, because they viewed it as a ploy to strip the Imperial Remnant of its defenses, so the New Republic could capture and assimilate it. After proving the validity of the New Republic's information at the Battle of Garqui, Pellaeon insisted putting support behind the New Republic, reasoning that if the Republic fell, the Remnant would be next. Pellaeon brought action to words at Ithor, where he and his fleet fought alongside Republic forces to obliterate Shedao Shai and his Yuuzhan Vong armada and prevent him from capturing the paradise world.
Bastion
This planet, the capital world of the Bastion System and the Braxant Sector, was the political heart of the Empire in the dark times following the death of Grand Admiral Thrawn. Its true name is a secret kept well-hidden by the Empire. It was controlled by Moff Disra, who retained control during the rise in power of the New Republic. It was on Bastion that the surviving Moffs met with Admiral Pellaeon to discuss a possible peace treaty with the Republic and here that years later they would hold a council of war regarding the coming invasion of the Yuzhan Vong.
Imperial Remnant
Formerly known as the Empire, this grouping of sectors is all that is left of the once sidespread New Order. Located along the borders of the Expansion Region and the Unknown Regions as part of the Outer Rim Territories it is tiny in comparison to the New Republic and more comparable in size to the former Tion Hegemony. Its geographical location puts it a fair distance from the Hydian Way and many major hyperspace routes, making it somewhat isolated from most galactic contact. However, the Remnant still possesses strong ties to the Unknown Regions and the Chiss Imperium/Consortium. It is unknown how long these political ties have existed, but it can be assumed that they've been public for at least two years. Since Nirauan appears to have been abandoned, it is safe to assume that the Empire rendered aide to them and consequently formed an alliance with the much better situated Chiss. The Remnant is home to Bastion, the capital, as well as Yaga Minor, the Imperial Information Centre.

Politics of the Empire
When Ambassador Leia Organa Solo first re-establishes contact with the Remnant with a plea for assistance against the Yuuzhan Vong, she is met aboard Bastion's customs station by three of Pellaeon's subordinates.Colonel Harrak and Major Pressin are both military aides to the Admiral, but the third is a civilian woman named Miat Temm, who is Force-sensitive. Not much information is known about these characters.

Pellaeon also alludes to the fact that he already knows some of what has happened concerning the mysterious Yuuzhan Vong. He admits to having agents on all the worlds taht border Remnant space, including Dubrillion. He also admits to having an agent in place at ExGal 4, where first sighting of the Praetorite Vong was made on Belkadan.

While Pellaeon rules the Empire, his subordinates and advisors, the Moff Council, have long formed the back-bone. While politicians for the most part, some of their number formerly held professional military titles, such as Moff Sarreti, recently appointed to the council and representing Bastion. He is, perhaps, Pellaeon's strongest ally and has a completely unbiased opinion of the New Republic, since he was not born under the Emperor's New Order, but rather under the banner of a once great and noble Empire, clouded over with corruption, discrimination, and the evil ideals of a sick old Sith Lord intent on cheating death. Moff Crowal, of Valc VII is one of Pellaeon's stronger opponents. Her territory borders that of the Chiss and the Unknown Territories, thus putting her farthest away from the phantom threat the Vong may, or may not pose. She is skeptical of this enemy and of the New Republic as is Moff Flennic. Moff Flennic is Pellaeon's greatest detractor and political opponent and may be one of the more influential Moffs on the council.

Although, the Remnant has a considerable space fleet, it is a mere fraction of what the Imperial Navy once was in the Empire's hayday and is spread far more thinly over Remnant territory than the Moffs would like. Resources for creating war materiels are stretched thin and government funding to the military has all but ceased because of reallocation of dwindling monetary resources to ministries with a more pressing need. Their primary reason for cutting military funds in the first place was that the populations of the terraformed Imperial-held worlds required money for welfare and unemployment, due in large part to a deep depression. The depression was in fact a bi-product of the Empire's truce with the New Republic. Since commerce had opened up between the Remnant and the Republic, the New Republic had been able to undercut prices within the Empire, thus key industries within the Empire had gone broke and the economy had collapsed leaving millions out of work and starving. So all government funds were reallocated from the Navy to the Civil Ministries. However, with the appearance of the Vong, the Remnant may need to rethink this bill...
Chiss
this race of blue-skinned humanoids was from the planet Csilla, in the Unknown Regions. Their homeworld was locked in a planet-wide ice age many millennia ago, and they were forced to flee the planet as a species in order to survive. They are all well-muscled and tall, with jet black hair and glowing red eyes. While their history has been marked by nearly continual warfare and conquest of other worlds, the Chiss are generally not violent. They prefer to extend themselves only from a defensive posture, and viewed the idea of a pre-emptive strike against an enemy as if it were murder. Within Chiss society, children matured very quickly, never truly having an adolescent period before becoming adults. Many of the scientists at the Astrographic Survey Institute believed that the Chiss were among the first races to come in contact with the Yuuzhan Vong, some fifty years before their initial invasion. They theorized that the Chiss understood the Vong's military power, and began augmenting their own war machine to prepare to repel an invasion fleet. Unfortunately, the Chiss remained isolated in the Unknown Regions, and wouldn't allow contact with the New Republic after the Battle of Ithor. Chiss sages spent a great deal of time researching the Yuuzhan Vong, and eventually learned that it had taken the alien invaders many generations to cross the gulf between galaxies.

jcb231
08-02-2002, 06:43 PM
And the point of all that was......?

Some interesting reading material, but it still doesn't provide nearly any info on architecture, units, etc that would be needed for a civ design.

Crazyus Dogus
08-03-2002, 04:29 AM
I would like Mon Cals (they would get good air, troops and sea), Hutts (The devs were gonna have them, and they should get good mechs, troops and heavy?) and Vong (U decide on this one)

Darth Windu
08-03-2002, 08:12 AM
viceroy - the chiss won't make a good civ, there just isnt enough on them

darth fergie - i still think they shouldnt, if they havent been seen in the movies leave them in laa-laa land (EU)

jcb - the B-wing isnt mon calamari, it is a rebel vessel, the only mon cal thing about it is that Adm Ackbar was involved in its design. It isnt built by the mon cal, and isnt flown by the mon cal.

Crazyus Dogus
08-03-2002, 08:47 AM
No I disagree. We should have any large EU organisations, but no small sides like any Karde Smuggling Organisation or something..

CorranSec
08-03-2002, 08:26 PM
Dogus, Kaarde's Smugglers Guild is an incredibly extensive organisation, and although they may not have a 'seat of government' as such, they have many bases and hideouts scattered around the galaxy.

Windu, Mon Cal do pilot B-Wings, they just excel more in the field of commanding cap ships. Your rejection of anything EU is fairly crazy and incredibly limits any proposed expansion. About half of the stuff in the game already is EU, so why don't you hate that?

Viceroy, some of your ideas for civs were vaguely OK, but you seem to take a small group or even a single individual to be the basis for a civ's powers. Any race can have 'good jedi,' just because we see a lot of Cighal doesn't mean all Mon Cal jedi are fantastic. Didn't Cighal die anyway?
So Sev'rance is chiss.... weird. I thought she was just some cartoon character.

Vong I agree would be one of the best to include. There is a veritable treasure trove of material on them, more than enough to make a fully functional civ. I'd especially love to see their "jedi" (aka their especially skilled warriors with amphistaffs and the like).
One of the reasons I support the New Republic is that to have the Vong, you must have the Vong's enemies- and the Rebels just can't cut it.
Also, as Viceroy stated in his big information post, Leia has approached the Imperial Remnant to aid them in the war against the Vong.... so we could have some Remnant armies in there too. Once again, the original Empire just won't fit the bill.
Also, if we want campaigns based on the post-movie EU stuff (books, comics, etc.) we'll need the Imp Remnant and the New Rep.

Darth Windu
08-03-2002, 10:19 PM
corran - im not against EU, im just saying the civ shouldn't be EU (ie not seen in movies). Also, i didnt see any mon cal flying B-wings in ROTJ, so exactly where are you getting that from?

Crazyus Dogus
08-04-2002, 04:46 AM
Originally posted by CorranSec
Dogus, Kaarde's Smugglers Guild is an incredibly extensive organisation, and although they may not have a 'seat of government' as such, they have many bases and hideouts scattered around the galaxy.
Vong I agree would be one of the best to include. There is a veritable treasure trove of material on them, more than enough to make a fully functional civ. I'd especially love to see their "jedi" (aka their especially skilled warriors with amphistaffs and the like).
One of the reasons I support the New Republic is that to have the Vong, you must have the Vong's enemies- and the Rebels just can't cut it.
Also, as Viceroy stated in his big information post, Leia has approached the Imperial Remnant to aid them in the war against the Vong.... so we could have some Remnant armies in there too. Once again, the original Empire just won't fit the bill.
Also, if we want campaigns based on the post-movie EU stuff (books, comics, etc.) we'll need the Imp Remnant and the New Rep.

Dude what I meant was little or no casual fans would buy this game if it contained organisations they never heard of. Yeah the Vong is a completely EU-based civ, but nevertheless they are still more famous.

Why don't Rebels work as NR? Just what units do NR have that Rebels do not?
And as for the Empire/IR, the devs specifically added Tie Defenders which the original Empire didn't have due to the screaming of fans. Likewise, what do IR have that Empire does not?! Even if they do, for both NR/Rebels and IR/Empire, they would still share too many common units.

DK_Viceroy
08-04-2002, 12:56 PM
there should be more than two civs in a new game would any of you splash out 25 to 30 pounds for something that only had two new civs okay the expansion pack was 15 to 20 £ but that was okay and i agree with dogus about ir and nr being similar to ge and ra but if you actually read my earlier post they run into severe economic difficulties and give miltary no funding AKA no military other than the one they started with thanks to the Dirty Dealings of the NR so if the game was gonna be realstic and based on the information we have they couldn't put them in and the RA just changed it's name and moved to courscant and created a few extra fighters nothing really major to make an entire new civ on and chiss and the others i suggested do we have any more information on say and you can't make a civ around a city which if you were doing bespin in the next game you would be the game doesn't have to have civs shown in the films like many ppl say the only wookies in film WAS ONLY CHEWBACCA use your savvy ppl if they built a civ that we new about 2 things about like they used bowcasters and they were in the republic not anything to make a civ on but they made one we have more information on chiss than wookies we know that their space fleet is in lees numbers and inferior to empires but they still decimated the empires fleet and also they have cloning technology which means they could havge a tech similar to kaminoan cloners for troops and that bthey could have a faster research rate and be able to create a unit that coould go out on a map and tame predators like it says in sevrance tann in the star wars databank sevrance tann made an army out of untameable animals that proves that they could ahve techs like Chiss Ingenuity which could increase firing rate for troops or fighters or reaction times to be attacked and retaliating or being able to fire while moving they could have a campaign against vong because we know they were able to repulse them with superior technology so we know that they did rapid research after they first encountered the empire and that they view unnesacesery fighting as treason so that could mean that troops could function as workers with a deceased carry limit come on ppl we need to have variety not just 2 new civs something like 6-8 new civs if we had 8 new civs we could have all of those post your suggestions for what their ablities and unique units and techs could be in at my thread SWGB new civs what features?

jcb231
08-04-2002, 09:01 PM
yes, windu, I know B-Wings are flown by the alliance, but they are also flown by the Mon Cal, were designed by them, and could make a great basis for the sylings of a possilbe Mon cal civ fighter. I'm trying to imagine what their units would be like here.....