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View Full Version : Thank god for 1.04!!!


00M-187
07-13-2002, 01:45 AM
Finally the game is the way it should be, no more noobs getting lucky with back stab\slash. Great work, I love it,

THANK YOU RAVEN!!!

Agen
07-13-2002, 02:20 AM
Hip hip huraay! No need for people changing everything damage etc.

Nobodi Kenobi
07-13-2002, 02:27 AM
As I said on the Official Patch thread...

It is a good patch, but not perfect.

What needs to be done is to quit nefring moves, weapons, etc. and start UPPING them - ALL of them (stances, ammo, damage from weapons) so that real SKILL becomes part of the game again.

This sounds counter-intuitive, but if you think about it, it makes sense. If you have all these tools at your disposal it DOES put people on equal ground and that is where skill comes in. It's how you use those tools to your advantage.

Some argue that that is exactly what 1.3 BS is. A tool and that people should quit whinning. Problem is, it is an OVER USED tool and the ONLY tool in the arsenal thanks to what 1.3 did to almost everything else in the tool box. Make sense?

1.4 has some problems (as do all patches).

Kicking now is easier than hell -- I know, I can do it now and NEVER could have before for some strange reason -- But overall, it is a step in the right direction as the MP feels more fluid and faster than 1.3...

Because more TOOLS are being put BACK in for the user to use. Not just ONE tool that can be used over and over to no end (spammed).

HellFyre69
07-13-2002, 04:32 AM
1.04 is a good patch, for those who were the victims of backstab... which was like (25%).. about 15% were mercs... Shotting around with rockets and all.. NOW The majority of the jk2 community 60%!!! where pull+backstaber "whores"... Thx to this patch, it just screw the 60% of players. This patch is gay..

NerfYoda
07-13-2002, 04:37 AM
I have yet to experience ANY problem with the patch. If I do I'm sure I'll find a way around it & not moan on the forums like a diseased llama.

00M-187
07-13-2002, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by HellFyre69
1.04 is a good patch, for those who were the victims of backstab... which was like (25%).. about 15% were mercs... Shotting around with rockets and all.. NOW The majority of the jk2 community 60%!!! where pull+backstaber "whores"... Thx to this patch, it just screw the 60% of players. This patch is gay..

If you cant win without backstabbing or pull backstabbing you suck. Plain and simple. 1.04 removes the unskilled lucky killers.

Homosexual Ewok
07-13-2002, 07:29 AM
The one thing I can't help but notice is the majority of pro v1.04 comments are along these lines:

"I love this patch, some pull/backstab LAMER tried to backstab me today and I only took 25% damage! Thanks Raven!"

Now, not to be cruel, but you guys are validating the point I tried ever so hard to make during v1.03.

The only reason you wanted the backstab "fixed" was because you were unable to avoid them and felt that a software company should be looked to when a flaw in your play style was exposed.

I almost never died from backstabs.
I played in duels, FFA, TDM whatever.
That's not to say people never tried to use them on me, they did.
Constantly.
It's just that I paid attention, learned, and hence avoided them.

The way I look at it, if you find yourself dying much less after playing on v1.04 servers, you were not very good to begin with.


Originally posted by 00M-187


If you cant win without backstabbing or pull backstabbing you suck. Plain and simple. 1.04 removes the unskilled lucky killers.


That's true.
But it also protects the unskilled people who were too slow/stupid to effectively use absorb/protect/rage to keep them alive.

Sorry if this sounds mean, it is not directed at you, but a player that could not win against someone spamming the pull/backstab sucked just as bad.

Lord Sokar
07-13-2002, 07:58 AM
^ You know... Homo...

As much as we all love to listen about how you are the god of avoiding backstab, it is getting a little old now. Especially seeing how backstab fags are pretty much boned now.

You also talk about how much you loved 1.02, that's great. I played 1.02 all the way up to one week ago and played 1.03 no more than 10 times total.

Blue backstab had a damage range of 50-MAX with 100% defense breaking capabilities while a red stance overhead chop had a damage range of only 40-120 with nothing close to 100% breaking capabilities. Seriously, you don't see a problem with that?

To sum it up:

* * * M A S S I V E B A L A N C E S C R E W U P * * *

Why in the hell should a backstab have that much power when an overhead, two-handed swing downwards doesn't? Why could you not pivot a DFA but could go freaking wild pivoting a blue backstab? Why did every pull knock you on your ass regardless? Why in the hell do you think that everyone should 'just be happy and live with it' when there was another option?

I have a hard time believing for a second that you did not exploit the hell out of pull/backstab. Let's move on and enjoy this thing again. In a week you can come back and enlighten us all on how you're the god of kicking/avoiding kicks.

Homosexual Ewok
07-13-2002, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Lord Sokar
^ You know... Homo...

As much as we all love to listen about how you are the god of avoiding backstab, it is getting a little old now. Especially seeing how backstab fags are pretty much boned now.

You also talk about how much you loved 1.02, that's great. I played 1.02 all the way up to one week ago and played 1.03 no more than 10 times total.

Blue backstab had a damage range of 50-MAX with 100% defense breaking capabilities while a red stance overhead chop had a damage range of only 40-120 with nothing close to 100% breaking capabilities. Seriously, you don't see a problem with that?

To sum it up:

* * * M A S S I V E B A L A N C E S C R E W U P * * *

Why in the hell should a backstab have that much power when an overhead, two-handed swing downwards doesn't? Why could you not pivot a DFA but could go freaking wild pivoting a blue backstab? Why did every pull knock you on your ass regardless? Why in the hell do you think that everyone should 'just be happy and live with it' when there was another option?

I have a hard time believing for a second that you did not exploit the hell out of pull/backstab. Let's move on and enjoy this thing again. In a week you can come back and enlighten us all on how you're the god of kicking/avoiding kicks.

Not to be mean dude, but from day one all I have ever tried to do is show people how easy it was to avoid these things.
I have never referred to myself as a "God".
I simply wanted people to learn rather than flame.
If people would have never offered advice on these things as I was learning what I now know, chances are I would have become one of those frustrated voices that seem so rampant in this game.

As one who admits to playing v1.03 no more than 10 times, you really don't have much room to criticize and complain about it. There were major changes made, and there is no way after 10 plays you can tell me you totally adapted and mastered it.

What you experienced after those 10 plays is the exact same thing I experienced when I first upgraded. Frustration of having to totally readjust your play style, half the moves you used to enjoy now have been changed or weakened, and a major revamp of the Force powers.
Then all of a sudden, moves that you, nor most people, ever used in the first release became the means at which you died by at an incredible rate.
I totally had my ass handed to me for the longest time after it came out. But I stuck with it, learned and in turn got better.

I'm sorry but just as some of you are tired of hearing about how you can adapt, a lot of us are getting sick of hearing about these so-called things that are so unbalanced or unstoppable, when we know they are not.

RpTheHotrod
07-13-2002, 08:31 AM
Yeah, it's helped stop the pull/backslash spammers...but it still hurt the normal saberists. They should have just nerfed pull. It's not even WORTH pulling of a backstab or backslash now...because you can do more damage doing a normal swing.

00M-187
07-13-2002, 08:51 AM
Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok
The one thing I can't help but notice is the majority of pro v1.04 comments are along these lines:

"I love this patch, some pull/backstab LAMER tried to backstab me today and I only took 25% damage! Thanks Raven!"

Now, not to be cruel, but you guys are validating the point I tried ever so hard to make during v1.03.

The only reason you wanted the backstab "fixed" was because you were unable to avoid them and felt that a software company should be looked to when a flaw in your play style was exposed.

I almost never died from backstabs.
I played in duels, FFA, TDM whatever.
That's not to say people never tried to use them on me, they did.
Constantly.
It's just that I paid attention, learned, and hence avoided them.

The way I look at it, if you find yourself dying much less after playing on v1.04 servers, you were not very good to begin with.





That's true.
But it also protects the unskilled people who were too slow/stupid to effectively use absorb/protect/rage to keep them alive.

Sorry if this sounds mean, it is not directed at you, but a player that could not win against someone spamming the pull/backstab sucked just as bad.

OK, HOMO ewok, First of all I only play in duals where push pull is disabled. So your comment about push pull is irrelevent. Also pre 1.03 the backslab was far less effective. Now with 1.04 there still is the backstab but without the spin. IE. so NOOBS can't just run around and turn and hopefully get lucky win with a back stab\slash spin. Which was what I meant by a lucky player. Your just sad becuase your favorite position of from behind is gone now

Homosexual Ewok
07-13-2002, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by 00M-187


OK, HOMO ewok, First of all I only play in duals where push pull is disabled. So your comment about push pull is irrelevent. Also pre 1.03 the backslab was far less effective. Now with 1.04 there still is the backstab but without the spin. IE. so NOOBS can't just run around and turn and hopefully get lucky win with a back stab\slash spin. Which was what I meant by a lucky player. Your just sad becuase your favorite position of from behind is gone now

Thank you.
In that witty and grammatically perfect response of yours you helped validate my point once again.

People who can barely string complete sentences together and use phrases like 'NOOBS" were the only ones complaining about a simple little move.

By the way, you forgot to press your Caps Lock key before you made that post. I know how you guys are fond of that.

KnightHawk420
07-13-2002, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by HellFyre69
1.04 is a good patch, for those who were the victims of backstab... which was like (25%).. about 15% were mercs... Shotting around with rockets and all.. NOW The majority of the jk2 community 60%!!! where pull+backstaber "whores"... Thx to this patch, it just screw the 60% of players. This patch is gay..

Yeah but only 5% of that 60% are guys like you who become over dependent on the move, and as such it's now "patch is gay, I've realized I really am a nOOb, and it's all this patches fault..."

Suck it up, learn to actually use your saber as it was intended, and you'll do fine.

Talon_of_BHG
07-13-2002, 03:36 PM
It seems to me the issue should be the game and not whether you can use or counter a move that was a mistake to begin with. I had no problem avoiding backstab but that doesnt necessarily mean it was a legitimate move. Take a step back and look at how the game is being played. 1.03 saw ppl running backwards to score a backstab. whether you could avoid the move or kill the guy is not relevant to the question: Should that style of play be considered a normal part of the game? I hope not. The 1.04 patch corrected what WOULD have been in the 1.03 patch if they had not forgotten to make the fix then. My question to you is if they had made the fix originally, would anyone have complained about backstab not doing enough damage? or not being able to pivot it at 6000 rpm?

To summarize: Whether someone can counter an exploit or mistake is irrelevant. If it shouldn't have been there in the first place why get angry that they fixed it? At least now you can face your opponent head on rather than having them back up to you. It just didn't seem normal to me...

P.S.: the mid air lunge could have been considered a legitimate move if it cost force to use IMO.

DeTRiTiC-iQ
07-14-2002, 12:51 AM
Homosexual Ewok, is there anyway I can contact you, ICQ or MSN?

If you don't want to make them public, email me at det@massassi.net

You're one of the few members of this forum I have respect for.

Solo4114
07-14-2002, 01:43 AM
Gotta agree with you, Talon.

I too could avoid the backstab by either kicking my opponent or generally avoiding situations where it seemed likely to happen (IE: on an FFA, when you get that big cluster of players, expect a medium backstab). Regardless, the move WAS an exploit. It was clearly stated by Raven that it was something they intended to fix, but didn't get around to. It was, in effect, a bug, a flaw, etc. People who used it to their advantage were using an exploit. The whole notion of "If it's in the game, I can use it" works fine for things that are MEANT to be in the game, but that logic doesn't apply to exploits.

Consider the following.

Picture a game similar to JO. There are many moves, swings, stabs, and the like. Now, suppose there's a move that you could do where, if you do three quick jumps in front of your opponent and do a 360 degree turn, never actually hitting him, he'll drop dead on the spot. An instant kill. Now suppose that the designers of this game publicly state, "That move was a joke move that Frank, one of our coders, put in during a beta phase. He used to play a prank on one of the other coders during testing, and it never should have been in the game." Now, suppose you get people who use this move CONSTANTLY in multiplayer. A portion of the community begins to call them pogofighters, whereas those who practice this move simply reply "It's easy to avoid. I don't see what your problem is. Besides, if it's in the game, it's a legitimate strategy." Get the picture?

The backstab, as it was, was an exploit not unlike the pogofighting I described above. Granted, it's not as ridiculous as the pogofighting, but it's also not that far off.

While it's true that the backstab was easy to avoid, the point is we shouldn't have HAD to avoid it at all. If Raven had fully coded 1.03 and caught everything, this would never have been an issue. The whole assfighting trend, the people who spammed pull and backstab, etc., it just wouldn't have been an issue.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Ewok here. I do understand the frustration of having to adjust your playing style from one patch to another because I've had to do that myself. In order to stay alive and enjoy the game, I had to adapt to the backstabbers and assfighters. I had to adapt my own playing style, in which I prefer much more straightforward combat, to the point where, if someone turned their back to me, I'd just stay the hell away from 'em. In quite possibly the BEST tactical situation you can be when dueling, I had to NOT take the obvious kill shot.

But honestly, as I've said elsewhere, if you depended on one or two moves, and exploit moves at that, you really need to develop your skills.

Cedrin
07-14-2002, 02:31 AM
Homosexual Ewok, there same can be said about version 1.02.

People couldnt avoid or counter DFA..
People died to fast becuase they couldnt dodge well enough..
People didnt know how to block..

Unskilled players unwilling to learn the game complained that 1.02 was to hard and was DFA was unbalanced. I never died to DFA in 1.02, and often went 20-0 before dying in duels.

Whenever there is change, people will always complain. Whenever there isnt change, people will always complain.

Simple as that.

crazyplaya73
07-14-2002, 02:45 AM
To summarize: Whether someone can counter an exploit or mistake is irrelevant. If it shouldn't have been there in the first place why get angry that they fixed it? At least now you can face your opponent head on rather than having them back up to you.
That point of view is so funny to me. Trust me good players in 103 that were skilled in many moves including backsweep would not walk around backwards or "ass-fight". N00bs did that looking for a lucky kill. If you get killed but one of these moves then you should have learned the many couters instead of bitching to Raven.

Now we'll just have n00bs doing saber throw, kick, and DFA looking for easy kills. There will always be n00bs who don't care to perfect their game and just try to get easy kills. The good players will still cut down these fools and the rest of you lamers will come here to the forums and cry like little babies.

All Raven had to do to "fix" backsweep was to fix push and pull so you don't get knocked down all the time. There was no need to keep a person from spinning and to nurf the damage done by backsweep. It was very difficult to land a backsweep on a skilled player in 103 when they were standing up. It was all of the knockdowns that made it bad. Now when you backsweep your as good as dead.

I'm so sick of this. That's why I'm going to MOD my server as soon as I can and make the saber lethal again and all of the special moves including backsweep. And I'll lower damage for saber throw and kick so that the game is focused on saber skill.

Homosexual Ewok
07-14-2002, 05:50 AM
I'm pretty much done with the v1.02/v1.03 arguments so I'll get right to the point so we can focus on the game in it's current form.

The problem I had with the patches and the people, who in turn brought them to us out of their complaints, was not based on any personal issue with these people or frustration over having to adjust to a new play style.

My whole point was that "dumbing" down or "slowing" down a game was a poor idea. In the long run it would hurt the community and end up turning the saber combat into nothing more than the stuff you see in console games like Jedi Power Battles.

I always said the whole "ass fighting" thing not only looked stupid, but as a strategy it was just plain dumb.
These people were very easy to beat and I honestly could not understand why people complained about them because they were so easy to kill.

Then I actually got a chance to play the people who were complaining and all became clear.
Their overall knowledge of the game, it's mechanics and the counters and attacks was very limited to say the least.

I then tried to show a few people the things I had been taught and had learned in hopes that they would ultimately become better players and not be so frustrated and lash out at other players who were just using a simple move or two to win.

Big mistake.
People don't want to be told there are flaws in their perfect play style. They want patches, because it has to be a hack or exploit.
Anyone who can jump on a public FFA server and "Own" all the time, has to be a good player, a perfect player right?

It didn't take long for me to become a little frustrated with some of these people. In turn I verbally lashed out at a few of the louder voices (and have since apologized to them).

Patches should fix actual bugs and exploits like the model kyle/fpls2 stuff.

They should not weaken the combat system because a player refuses to admit that he/she can, with practice, learn to use the defenses that were put in the game and used by others, properly.

To be honest v1.04 in it's "out of the box" form is pretty damn boring.
Saber combat is reduced to a level even my house pets could successfully compete at.
Pretty much everything that you had to watch out for has been removed or weakened.

To me, this is lame.
Nothing to fear, no reason to play.

But enter the saber damage scale cvar and finally sabers once again are lethal, Hell even more so than ever.

This is the direction Raven should have taken from day 1.
The only reason people rely on special moves is the regular ones are weak as Hell.
Like it or not, people play to win.
All that ever needed to be done was to restrict the pivot movement in the DFA and backstab.
But instead, we got those restrictions along with weaker sabers.
Dumb, very dumb.
Now, with these saber scale settings every saber swing is something you have to avoid like there is no tomorrow.
You want variety, skill, true lethal combat where the winner is the one with the most knowledge of how to wield a saber?
Try the settings in my sig.

Sorry for the long post, there just seems to be some confusion on the things I have said in the past and I wanted it cleared up.

BTW, DeTRiTiC-iQ I'll drop you an e-mail, I don't use ICQ or other IM programs.

XERXES
07-14-2002, 05:55 AM
I like the patch...it makes the game more fun because there arent nOObs running around everywhere pulling and backstabbing you and claiming they have skill. However I have noticed that the red and yellow DFA are more common. But that does not bother me considering they are not a problem to dodge and counter. Now I think if Raven is going to make more patches or whatever, they need to concentrate on adding new things instead of nerfing current moves. that is all...XERXES out.

edit: i read the first thing homosexual ewok said about the patch. His statement "those who are thankful that the backstabbers are nerfed never had skill anyway because they were too dumb to avoid it...etc etc." to me that is VERY ignorant. I shall elaborate more later considering i cannot read previous posts in the edit mode.

XERXES
07-14-2002, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok


But enter the saber damage scale cvar and finally sabers once again are lethal, Hell even more so than ever.

This is the direction Raven should have taken from day 1.
The only reason people rely on special moves is the regular ones are weak as Hell.
Like it or not, people play to win.
All that ever needed to be done was to restrict the pivot movement in the DFA and backstab.
But instead, we got those restrictions along with weaker sabers.
Dumb, very dumb.
Now, with these saber scale settings every saber swing is something you have to avoid like there is no tomorrow.
You want variety, skill, true lethal combat where the winner is the one with the most knowledge of how to wield a saber?
Try the settings in my sig.



Im agreeing with you on that one Ewok, even I am having a hard time adjusting to the new patch. However that makes total sense. Because people are too hardheaded to learn and adjust to the game does not necessarialy mean they should have a patch to help make their playing style work. However I am not complaning, I am thankful that Raven even made this game.

Mercen4ry
07-14-2002, 06:17 AM
Well, I was going to post this over on the other thread, but it got closed in my face. :rolleyes:

For once Ewok, I agree with you. DamageScale and saberTraceSaberFirst 0 are great insofar as true saber combat is concerned, even if it takes a little getting used to (getting slaughtered off glancing blows reminds me of 1.02). One particular thing that amuses me about the 4x damage with less blocking is the body count.

Cleanup, Aisel 4. :rolleyes:

But then again, a lightsaber is supposed to be a dangerous and elegant weapon, not a tool of frustration. Thank you Lucas Arts / Raven for the new cvar. :D

Homosexual Ewok
07-14-2002, 06:31 AM
The best thing we can do is continually pimp this stuff to server admins and to people in these forums.
I got an admin to try it last night in his FFA server and everyone, gunners and saberists could not get enough of it.
It really turned up the pace of the game back to those days where you lose yourself in the game and really feel like you are playing in this dangerous world where death is just around the corner.

Yeah, kills are a plenty at first, and bump damage is high, but all I have heard from the guys who support v1.04 is "Now we can get back to duels of true skill, not Spammed moves."

Well, now that the normal saber swings are just as lethal as the special moves, you better have skill and not be dependant your opponents low damage swings and your auto-blocking to keep you alive.

It's a win-win situation.
Newbies can kill quickly.
Pros don't have to deal with the same one Spammed move over and over. Also their moves are just as lethal as the newbie's, so if they are truly better, it will show.

crazyplaya73
07-14-2002, 09:58 AM
I'm using:
seta g_saberghoul2collision 0
seta g_sabertracesaberfirst 0
seta g_saberdamagescale 2

I've been at that since day one with this patch. This to me is a bandaid not a total solution. I want to be able to adjust every thing like saber throw, kick, all of the stances, all of the special moves, and all of the backsweeps because Raven has it all wrong IMO. This will be a more accurate way with deadly sabers and deadly back sweeps without the easy knock down back sweep moves. This will focus on your skill with the saber better then just simply increasing the damage 2, 3, or 4 times from the default. I/m waiting for a MOD that will let me do that then I will have a kick ass saber only server once again.

But my server is completely empty since 104!!! Its never been this empty before. I guess it has something to do with th ein-game browser getting f**ked up. That just sucks. Sorry I'm pissed.

Saber Only Smorgasbord!!! [SL] (104)
IP: 24.164.156.93 Port: 28070
http://24.164.156.93/

Solo4114
07-15-2002, 12:39 AM
I messed around with the damagescale cvar and found that I really enjoyed it. The sabre really IS lethal when you use that cvar. And duels do require MUCH more skill because even a glancing blow will kill you, if you're not careful. All of the moves simply become one-hit kills (or one to two hit kills), so moving and countermoving becomes indispensible. And the various special moves, like the yellow DFA and the blue lunge become just another tool in your repertoir.

THIS is what the game should be like: moves are just tools, not uber 1337 combos or special killer moves.

Lunatic Jedi
07-15-2002, 01:12 AM
I'm definitely going to mess around a bit with those CVARS. I've been looking forward to saber combat becoming truly realistic. One blow can sever you torso, your arm, your head. Just a little glance to the midsection can tear your organs open, leaking vital fluids... I'm describing all this too graphically, aren't I?

ryudom
07-15-2002, 01:19 AM
i think the blocking is damn fine the way it is. i mean you should be able to block things right? look at the movie battles. you can still get past defenses and such with specials and getting past the arc and using combos. i do agree that i like uping the saber damage sometimes though.

now i didn't complain about bs, i found ways around it. but i do enjoy the new patch very much.

JNR_GrimReaper
07-15-2002, 01:53 AM
&*#^$@^&%#@$^ wheres the damn icon of the smily slamming down the judges thing?


STOP THE MADNESS!!!!!! THE PATCH IS GREAT

Lunatic Jedi
07-15-2002, 02:02 AM
I used that damage scale, and I have to say... I LOVED IT! It gives me that real feeling of peril... only a couple small hits and you're dead!

Its so much better than before, when normal swings were like hitting your enemy with a giant marshmallow rod. :rolleyes:

Homosexual Ewok
07-15-2002, 02:20 AM
Glad you guys like it, remember you have to spread the word if you ever hope to see it become the norm.
BTW, thank QuietSith for bringing this to everyone's attention if you get the chance.

The blocking is kind of a matter of personal taste.
I prefer to rely on my movements to avoid the swings, but I know others will prefer the blocks.

Personally I have found the blocking to be somewhat unreliable at times whereas a "strafe left" works every time (if you do it fast enough).

ryudom
07-15-2002, 05:40 AM
ya your right about the blocking thing, preference. usually i don't bock much but i like the option.

also whats this model kyle/fpls2?