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Darth Talliusc
07-17-2002, 12:10 PM
ive been looking over the evidence and i have come to the conclusion that dooku was not evil, lets look at the facts shall we?

1: the neimodians went to dooku and told him all about sidious, dooku then joins sidious and hires jango fett not long after

2: dooku did everything he could (without looking like he was) to help the jedi. he tried to free obi-wan, he tried to save mace windu and the rest of the jedi by asking them to surrender in the arena.

3: he also made sure that the neimodians (trade federation) didnt send more droids into battle with the jedi and republic army "there are too many".

4: he told obi wan about sidious controlling the senate

5: (this ones the kicker) he was trained by yoda, and therefore cannot be evil because yoda's too good for that



now some people could argue that these things dont mean that he is evil, but why do them ALL if you were truly a sith? why warn obi wan? why offer the jedi a way out? why join sidious after the neimodians come crying to him? well we shall all see for sure in 2005.

XERXES
07-17-2002, 12:15 PM
makes sense...cept for the yoda one. I mean, Luke was almost lost to the dark side, he was trained by yoda.

Darth Talliusc
07-17-2002, 12:18 PM
keyword "almost" and yoda taught dooku for years, alot longer then he trained farmboy luke.

SharaFett
07-17-2002, 12:35 PM
dooku carries a red lightsaber. thus, he is evil.


plus, do you consider darth vader (not anakin skywalker) a sith? of course! but he still had affection towards luke in ESB and ROTJ, and you could tell because he was holding back when he fought luke

Darth Talliusc
07-17-2002, 12:57 PM
lol sorry if i dont find the whole red lightsaber idea too compelling, and yes its possible that some of that was just compassion but i dont honestly think so, its too much of a coincidence.

Dissectional
07-17-2002, 12:57 PM
Need I remind you that Dooku FOUGHT (keyword) Yoda, tried to crush him under rubble, blast him with lightning, and throw big ol, pipe-lookin-thingy's at him. Also, He is SIDIOUS' APPRENTICE!

And also his name is Darth Tyrannus now, not Count Dooku.

Jedi_Monk
07-17-2002, 01:07 PM
1. I fail to see what the Niemoidians going to Dooku proves; Niemoidians are stupid and easily manipulated.

2. Dooku wanted Obi-Wan as his Apprentice. That's the deal with the Sith Lord, the Apprentice is always scheming, trying to destroy his Master so he can take over; it's the nature of the Sith. Vader did the same thing with Luke... and Dooku's an old guy, probably figures that if he wants to become the Sith Master, he'll have to act fast before he croaks. Anyway, what he told Obi-Wan also planted seeds of doubt in the Jedi's mind. If by some chance Obi-Wan escapes and brings this information to the Jedi, it will be interpreted in one of two ways; either Dooku is lying, or he is telling the truth. If they believe Dooku is lying, then there's no WAY Palpatine could be a Sith Lord; If Dooku is telling the truth, the Jedi will try to stick their necks out where it doesn't belong (interfering with the affairs of the Senate) and Palpatine will have a reason to disband them. If Obi-Wan does not escape, then no harm done... Sidious is still in the shadows and no one's the wiser.

Dooku also wanted to hold Mace and the others hostage. And he didn't try very hard to negotiate with them, either.

3. I fail to see how this one indicates that Dooku is a good guy... all it shows is that he knows when he's beaten. He just wanted to conserve his own forces and run to fight another day.

4. See #2

5. Agree with XERXES; this one doesn't make sense.

See, Dooku is terribly disenchanted with the Republic and the Jedi Order. He got too attatched to his Padawan, Qui-Gon and when he died needlessly over the small matter of a trade embargo that could have been cleanly solved if the Republic had acted faster... Dooku snapped. He found out about Sidious from the Niemoidians and at once ran to join the opposing team. There may still be good in Dooku and he certainly doesn't take as much pleasure in killing as did Vader or the Emperor, but that doesn't make him any less evil. He didn't free Obi-Wan because Obi-Wan refused to join him, he didn't hesitate to send in the droids which killed dozens of Jedi... he would have killed both Obi-Wan and Anakin... even Yoda, if he could've. He's a Sith Lord.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Darth Talliusc
07-17-2002, 01:12 PM
hmm, good point but i stand by my opinion, and the timing of the neimodians is just too perfect, as soon as he found out about sidious he rushed to go join him, and that thing about the apprentice and master is a load of crap, sith arent like that. Darth maul would have done anything for sidious no matter what, sith have more loyalty then jedi (at least since the whole darth bane thing anyways)

Darth Groovy
07-17-2002, 02:42 PM
He's just misunerstood.


"I'm not bad.....I'm just drawn that way!"

_Jessica Rabbit

Kstar__2
07-17-2002, 05:37 PM
he WAS a good guy, before he turned to the dark side:rolleyes: ;)

Zindell
07-17-2002, 06:06 PM
No I see where he'S coming from, he was technially being a spy.

Maybe he only attacked yoda with things he knew he could easily handle.

Hanch Saode
07-17-2002, 07:45 PM
What a wrong impression you have on Lord Tyranus...

He would have killed Obi and Anakin if it weren't for the little guy Yoda coming rescuing them....and he planned the Death Star, or not planned, but made sure that the plans were kept alive....so don't come say he was a GOOD GUY!!! LOL.....you have to look the case from the other perspective...and I don't think you hace done so!

Azrael
07-17-2002, 07:46 PM
Osama bin Laden isn't evil!

Destroying the WTC and the pentagon were really just ways to deal with global overpopulation!

I can't say I agree.:confused:

SharaFett
07-17-2002, 10:12 PM
azrael has a point there- everything depends upon a certain point of view. but gl makes it blatantly obvious in interviews and fanmade films that RED LIGHTSABER=DARK SIDE. this is a very simplistic and clear-cut way of determining this. RED=SITH because GEORGE LUCAS SAID SO.

Darth Talliusc
07-17-2002, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by Hanch Saode
What a wrong impression you have on Lord Tyranus...

He would have killed Obi and Anakin if it weren't for the little guy Yoda coming rescuing them....and he planned the Death Star, or not planned, but made sure that the plans were kept alive....so don't come say he was a GOOD GUY!!! LOL.....you have to look the case from the other perspective...and I don't think you hace done so!

if you dont agree say that you think otherwise but dont tell people that they are wrong when the movie is 3 years away, if GL wanted to he could make it so that dooku is really lukes dad so dont tell me that im wrong!

and maybe he sensed that anakin was getting his strength back and decided that almost killing obiwan would convince everyone that he WAS evil, and then later he felt yoda's presence so he stopped, right when he was about to kill obiwan and anakin he just stopped. you notice that he could have killed obiwan and anakin VERY easily but instead he started talking to yoda, who was all of 30 feet away, not even yoda could have stopped dooku from killing them. but he didnt, HAH!

and as for sharafett's point of the red lightsaber, dont you see? GL loves to lead us one direction and then spin us completely the other way, we right now assume lots of things that may not actually be in ep3.

SharaFett
07-17-2002, 11:09 PM
actually, check the documentaries of the making of ep:2. dooku IS a sith. and he IS evil. there's points of opinion, and then there's absolute truth.

c.d.
07-17-2002, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by Darth Talliusc
ive been looking over the evidence and i have come to the conclusion that dooku was not evil, lets look at the facts shall we?

1: the neimodians went to dooku and told him all about sidious, dooku then joins sidious and hires jango fett not long after

2: dooku did everything he could (without looking like he was) to help the jedi. he tried to free obi-wan, he tried to save mace windu and the rest of the jedi by asking them to surrender in the arena.

3: he also made sure that the neimodians (trade federation) didnt send more droids into battle with the jedi and republic army "there are too many".

4: he told obi wan about sidious controlling the senate

5: (this ones the kicker) he was trained by yoda, and therefore cannot be evil because yoda's too good for that



now some people could argue that these things dont mean that he is evil, but why do them ALL if you were truly a sith? why warn obi wan? why offer the jedi a way out? why join sidious after the neimodians come crying to him? well we shall all see for sure in 2005.




Dooku is bad and here is why.....


1) Sidius sent Dooku to minipulate the Trade Fed. By doing this, they started the "Clone War" thus throwing the jedi in to defend the Republic, and thus allowing Sidius to gain even more control and soon become emporer. Dooku didnt help out the trade fed out of the goodness of his heart, he helped them so the war would start, and start the rise of the empire......

2) Dooku is evil, and you cant use the Jedi arena fight as evidence saying he is good.... Look at every movie where you have a so called "Super Villian" they always and i mean ALWAYS tell the hero or heros to surrender and they wont be hurt....its a part of being bad.

3) Dooku trying to free Obi-wan wasnt due to the fact he wanted to see Obi free'd.....he wanted Obi to join the dark side.....and kill Dookus master, and become new head sith, and telling Obi that Sidius was rulling the senate is a great way to get someone to change sides... why you ask? Because it means you are working for the dark side.(jedi working for the darkside, and not knowing it)

4)Dooku told the trade fed not to send in more droids, not because he wanted to protect them..... he wanted them to pull back so they wouldnt lose more troops, that was the begining of a long war, and if you send all of your troops into 1 battle and they all get destroyed, then you lose the war right then and there. Thats not being a good guy... its called being a good general and looking ahead to future battles.

# 4 was answered in #3

5) Just because Yoda trains you dosnt mean a thing... as long as you have free thought and will you can do what you like, and join which ever side you want. Just because hes the most powerful jedi (atm) dosent set our future in stone saying you will be a good guy forever.


and finally
Red lightsaber = bad
Green and Blue lightsaber = good
Purple lightsaber = A bald blackman who just doesnt look right swinging a lightsaber for some reason, but none the less is still a badass.

Darth Knight
07-17-2002, 11:38 PM
ok i see where he is coming from but i do think he is a sith look at everything not just a few things

Darth Talliusc
07-18-2002, 03:36 AM
Originally posted by Darth Knight
ok i see where he is coming from but i do think he is a sith look at everything not just a few things

thanks, and you all make good points but none of it is concrete enough to say outright that dooku CANT be a good guy, its also possible that everybody is right, that dooku will return from the darkside (if he is really over there) and repent like vader did. i just dont trust these things, GL is a crafty old dude and i know hes gonna trick us somehow. just trying to figure out how.

obi
07-18-2002, 03:48 AM
This has been said millions of times before by myself and many others before, but:


Dooku is bad. He went to Kamino 10 years ago under the name of Sifo-Dias and orderd clones under the order of Palpatine/Sidious(they are the same person). He was officialy Palpy's apprentice of evil. Palpy told Dooku to start a seperatists movement so that he could use his clones and show his power. Then, Palpy thought no one would dare stand up to him, and be afraid of him.


Dooku told Obi about Sidious being in control because he knew Obi wouldn't beleive him anyways, but Dooku just wanted to sound like a good guy.

WHen Dooku tells Mace to surrender, and their lives will be spared, He knew Mace wouldn't do it. Therefore making him sound like a good guy.

In the scene: "How could the JEdi have come up with an army so quickly?", he says that to let the Geonosians know he is on their side, and to hide the fact that he is actually doing all of this to get Sidious to power. The seperatists movement is all a big scam made by Palpy and Dooku.

Therfore,

Dooku=Bad guy

SharaFett
07-18-2002, 11:00 AM
tallius look at your argument:

you all make good points but none of it is concrete enough to say outright that dooku CANT be a good guy


to use your argument, i could say there is not 100% undeniable proof that darth vader IS luke's father. and that mace windu is NOT black. i mean, come on! in that case, NOTHING is concrete enough to be true. if that's what you believe, FINE. but i dont understand where you're taking this... :confused:

Jedi Hunter2354
07-18-2002, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by obi-wan13
This has been said millions of times before by myself and many others before, but:


Dooku is bad. He went to Kamino 10 years ago under the name of Sifo-Dias and orderd clones under the order of Palpatine/Sidious(they are the same person). He was officialy Palpy's apprentice of evil. Palpy told Dooku to start a seperatists movement so that he could use his clones and show his power. Then, Palpy thought no one would dare stand up to him, and be afraid of him.


Dooku told Obi about Sidious being in control because he knew Obi wouldn't beleive him anyways, but Dooku just wanted to sound like a good guy.

WHen Dooku tells Mace to surrender, and their lives will be spared, He knew Mace wouldn't do it. Therefore making him sound like a good guy.

In the scene: "How could the JEdi have come up with an army so quickly?", he says that to let the Geonosians know he is on their side, and to hide the fact that he is actually doing all of this to get Sidious to power. The seperatists movement is all a big scam made by Palpy and Dooku.

Therfore,

Dooku=Bad guy


Ownage!!

Jedi_Monk
07-18-2002, 11:24 AM
Maul might've been completely loyal to Sidious, but how loyal was Sidious to Maul? Remember that Sidious has a knack for reading the future and only a giant vergance in the Force defeated his plans... remember that Sidious, being in tune with the Force, can also sense the Jedi potential in others... also remember that Sidious had come into contact with Anakin Skywalker on Coruscant and that, being an influencial Senator, may very well have caught wind of Qui-Gon's "Chosen One" theory.

Now, what must Sidious think of this boy Anakin Skywalker? The Jedi's messiah... he's thinking "Hey, if I make this kid my apprentice, I'll be unstoppable." But wait, Sidious already HAS an apprentice! "Oh well, that one's gotta go... I'll just send him down to Naboo to face two Jedi with nothing to back him up but some rickety droids." And Dooku's pretty old and just another pawn for Sidious... the whole point of the Master/Apprentice relationship is that there will always be someone to continue on the Sith Brotherhood... Dooku's 80, that's about 50-60 years older than Palpatine himself. How's this guy going to be able to overthrow him and have time to train a new Sith Apprentice? Dooku's only there to fulfill the Rule of Two until Sidious' wonderboy comes along.

Now, here's something from the second draft of Star Wars:
As the Republic spread throughout the galaxy, encompassing over a million worlds, the GREAT SENATE grew to such overwhelming proportions that it no longer responded to the needs of its citizens.
We saw this in Episode I. The Republic Senate was so big and had so many members that they were unable to settle the trade disputev and the subsequent invasion of Naboo. Anakin also makes reference to this in SW2, telling Amidala that the Senate is too big and that the people can't agree on anything, so they should be made to agree.

After a series of assassinations and elaborately rigged elections...
The first part didn't come about, though I guess you could cound Valorum as politically assassinated. And who's to say that Palpatine's election to Chancellor wasn't rigged somehow? He sertainly turned the tables in his favor and gained sympathy by the invasion of Naboo which he masterminded.

...the Great Senate became secretly controlled by the Power and Transport guilds.
Now replace "Power and Transport guilds" with the Sith...
When the Jedi discovered the conspiracy and attempted to purge the Senate, they were denounced as traitors. Several Jedi allowed themselves to be tried and executed, but most of them fled into the Outland systems and tried to tell people of the conspiracy.
So, Dooku tells Obi-Wan about the Sidious/Palpatine connection... Obi-Wan escapes with the help of the Clone Army and reports this to his superiors. They have bigger fish to fry, more immediate dangers in the form of the Clone War and must ignore this for its duration. But the Clone War ends early on in SW3, Lucas has told us... so with nothing better to do (and maybe with other clues leading them, descovered during the Wars) the Jedi look into this whole Sith thing. They descover the Sith conspiracy and "attempt to purge the Senate" and are "denounced as traitors". This allows Palpatine to begin the Jedi Purge with the full backing of the Senate and the misinformed masses.

So Dooku plants the seed that evidense suggests will flower into the Jedi Purge and hand the Sith victory (if a temporary one) over their greatest enemy.

Not a good guy.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Darth Talliusc
07-18-2002, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by SharaFett
tallius look at your argument:




to use your argument, i could say there is not 100% undeniable proof that darth vader IS luke's father. and that mace windu is NOT black. i mean, come on! in that case, NOTHING is concrete enough to be true. if that's what you believe, FINE. but i dont understand where you're taking this... :confused:

ok thats alot more extreme than what i meant, some things are more obvious then others, i just dont believe GL would do it that way, its just an opinion of mine... and to jedi_monk's comment, some of your points are good but some things need straitening out. ill explain

" Now, what must Sidious think of this boy Anakin Skywalker? The Jedi's messiah... he's thinking "Hey, if I make this kid my apprentice, I'll be unstoppable." But wait, Sidious already HAS an apprentice! "Oh well, that one's gotta go... I'll just send him down to Naboo to face two Jedi with nothing to back him up but some rickety droids"

that isnt at all believable, sorry but it isnt, palpatine didnt even know about anakin yet, only the council did and obiwan and quigon. maul should have been able to defeat obi wan AND qui gon by sidious' estimation, he didnt want to lose maul at all, hed spent like at least 20 years forging this guy to be his weapon. you also said that:

"Dooku's 80, that's about 50-60 years older than Palpatine himself. How's this guy going to be able to overthrow him and have time to train a new Sith Apprentice?"

wow alot i have to correct there, first off dooku isnt 80, hes 400. secondly who said that the sith masters have to be overthrown? they age faster than most people do, they simply die when they get old. passing on the tradition, theres nothing about overthrowing your master and replacing him. and as you saw in the fight scene on geonosis, dooku can handle himself, hes quite capable of doing what he wants.

sidious knew that dooku could take any jedi to a standstill, he held off yoda and made the little bugger pant AFTER taking down obi wan (the only one to defeat a sith thus far) AND anakin (the chosen one whos loaded with midichlorians). if all sidious wanted was someone who could kill jedi then he could have kept dooku, no need for a new apprentice, but the fact is that dooku doesnt stay as his apprentice, anakin takes that position.

well anyways, you've brought me some new information that i have to think about, thanks.

SharaFett
07-18-2002, 11:43 AM
passing on the tradition, theres nothing about overthrowing your master and replacing him.

there is a lot about that. there's a lot about it especially in the dark side source book. it's the cycle that the sith follow, but they're apparently not aware of it.

Jedi_Monk
07-18-2002, 12:00 PM
wow alot i have to correct there, first off dooku isnt 80, hes 400.
Okay... I'm at a loss... where exactly did you dig up that fugure? I thought maybe it was some crap from the EU, but then I looked Dooku's EU history up in the www.starwars.com database and it distinctly says there that Dooku is 80 (actually, just to cover my bases, here's a direct quote:
Dooku had studied the ways of the Force for almost eight decades...
And since it's very rare for anyone over a certain age to join the Jedi Order (heck, Anakin, the CHOSEN ONE, was almost turned away because he was "too old" at the ripe old age of 9!), Dooku must be around 80 years old. Just because he was padawan to Yoda doesn't mean that he had lived nearly as long as his mentor. Dooku is only human, and there's very little canonical evidense that the Force really extends someone's lifespan that much (beyond helping them to avoid being shot up by blasters and dying prematurely). Yoda himself says that the Force cannot stop someone from dying... that he is strong in the Force, "but not that strong." Chalk Yoda's 900 years to the genetics of his diminutive species.

secondly who said that the sith masters have to be overthrown? they age faster than most people do, they simply die when they get old. passing on the tradition, theres nothing about overthrowing your master and replacing him.
Yet in the movies, we see two Sith Apprentices plotting to overthrow their Master (Dooku with Obi-Wan: "Join me, and together we will destroy the Sith!" and Vader with Luke "You can destroy the Emperor, he has foreseen it! Join me and we can rule the galaxy together as father and son!") and at least one instance of a Sith Master trying to cull off one of his Apprentices (Palpatine/Sidious with Vader... trying to see who was stronger, the father of the son, by pitting them in a battle to the death and then taking whoever survived as his apprentice: "Strike your father down and take his place at my side!" Avidence does point to all kinds of backstabbing and attempted overthrowings of Masters and Apprentices.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Darth Talliusc
07-18-2002, 12:10 PM
im not saying that dooku is 400 because he was yodas padawan, im saying it because thats what it says in the books. and as for the sith plotting against master stuff well: vader plotting with luke is obvious, vader isnt a very good sithlord (you know that because he makes them extinct) and he was really torn between the good and evil in him, as for the dooku with obiwan, well thats what weve been discussing and ive already stated my opinion on that, thats what this thread is all about (dooku is a good guy).

oh and i almost forgot about where palpatine tells luke to kill vader, well that was because he knew he couldnt trust vader anymore, he saw vader offer to overthrow the emperor with luke, (its in the books, i forget where exactly)

and just out of curiosity are you getting angry at me? i made this thread to have a good discussion/friendly arguement, if anybody's actually getting mad at me then id like to know.

-[MotU]-Lyger|=-
07-18-2002, 12:16 PM
Dooku is bad, he's lame, old, stupid and ugly man how can that be good???

Darth Talliusc
07-18-2002, 12:20 PM
you just descirbed (in my opinion) ep4,5,6, obiwan kenobi. but his prequel character was badass cool.

edit: did i just say badass cool? ok now its definitely time for bed if im getting that lazy/stupid.confused... ah nutcrap.

JediGhost[SITH]
07-18-2002, 12:28 PM
Wait a second, Dooku uses a red saber and he fought the good guys... Enough said, he was evil.

Plus he worked for Sidious. Come on...

Jedi_Monk
07-18-2002, 12:36 PM
im not saying that dooku is 400 because he was yodas padawan, im saying it because thats what it says in the books.
What book? It says nothing about Dooku being 400 in the www.starwars.com database; quite the contrary it strongly indicates that his age is around eighty. I'd think something as remarkable as a 400-year-old human would be mentioned in the database.

And back to the Sith Apprentice/Master backstabbing... what do we have to go by in the movies but the actions of Dooku, Vader and Palpatine? That's 3 of 4 movie Sith Lords betraying their Master or their Apprentice in some way or another... odds are good that these are not isolated occurances. The EU doesn't belong in this discussion.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Kurgan
07-18-2002, 12:43 PM
Ah Count Dooku, our only canon example of a "Dark Jedi" (other than Vader of course).

Perhaps the first one too, if you consider that Maul was a pure Sith, and never a Jedi Knight...

Though several Jedi are supposed to have left the order, we don't know what happened to them (non-film sources btw)...

JediGhost[SITH]
07-18-2002, 12:47 PM
Yeah, look at Star Wars Galaxies for example. You have to become a Jedi in order to become a Dark Jedi (Sith).

Hanch Saode
07-18-2002, 11:15 PM
I don't understand why you think he is good...I don't get it!!

There are so many arguments for he is a bad guy.....

I don't wanna waste anymore time in this thread....for me it is meaningless...we obviously can't comvince you otherwise than what you have already told yourself...goodbye.....this is waste of my time, talking about wether Dooku is evil or not.....actually I have only one thing to say about that perspective....


LOOOOOOOOOOOOL!!!!!!!!

'nuf said... I wont be checking this thread anymore.....so don't bother replying me...

Darth Joka'ar
07-19-2002, 02:53 AM
Count Dooku is a bad guy…..


1st. He tried to kill Senator Amildala Padme’.So u mean killing her made him a good guy?
2nd. He work with Darth Sidious and joined the dark side. If he is a good guy, why dunt he informed the Jedi where his Master is hiding and turn his Master in?
3rd. He keep on lying to Obi-Wan Kenobi about he hired Jango Fett.?
4th. He injured Obi-Wan during the duel and then he tries to kill him.
5th. He cut-off Anakin arm. If he really a good guys, instead cutting his arm, why dun he just injured Anakin like he did to Obi-Wan?Izzit Anakin was an easier opponent then Obi-Wan?Since Anakin is just a Padawan and Obi-Wan is a Jedi Knight for 10 years.
and maybe he sensed that anakin was getting his strength back and decided that almost killing obiwan would convince everyone that he WAS evil, and then later he felt yoda's presence so he stopped, right when he was about to kill obiwan and anakin he just stopped. you notice that he could have killed obiwan and anakin VERY easily but instead he started talking to yoda, who was all of 30 feet away, not even yoda could have stopped dooku from killing them. but he didnt, HAH!

He didnt killed Obi and Ani coz he was so confident on his Dark Force to destroy Yoda first.Did u see he was so confident on his new Dark Force,but he was wrong about it. Did you see the impression of CD( he was so shock then) when Yoda reflect the Dark Lightning back to CD? Then CD hand was trembling and fired another Dark Lightning. Then he realize that his Force wanst that strong and then he challenge Yoda with Lightsaber(confident with his Form II skills).
7th. He would have killed Obi & Ani during CD destroyed the pillar to crush Obi & Ani. What if Yoda couldn’t fast enough to hold the pillar with his Force?


Count Dooku is a bad guy……….if u still insist he is a good guy, then I call Emperor Palpatine is the good guy.

Darth Talliusc
07-19-2002, 05:21 AM
Originally posted by Darth Joka'ar
Count Dooku is a bad guy?..


1st. He tried to kill Senator Amildala Padme?.So u mean killing her made him a good guy?
2nd. He work with Darth Sidious and joined the dark side. If he is a good guy, why dunt he informed the Jedi where his Master is hiding and turn his Master in?
3rd. He keep on lying to Obi-Wan Kenobi about he hired Jango Fett.?
4th. He injured Obi-Wan during the duel and then he tries to kill him.
5th. He cut-off Anakin arm. If he really a good guys, instead cutting his arm, why dun he just injured Anakin like he did to Obi-Wan?Izzit Anakin was an easier opponent then Obi-Wan?Since Anakin is just a Padawan and Obi-Wan is a Jedi Knight for 10 years.

Count Dooku is a bad guy???.if u still insist he is a good guy, then I call Emperor Palpatine is the good guy.

ok number 1: we have no evidence that it was dooku that hired jango to kill padme, it could have been just the neimodians acting separately.

2: who said that dooku knows exactly where sidious is? i dont think he keeps a standard residence.

3: as for him lying to obiwan about jango, well didnt obi-wan do a little lying to luke later on? this seems like a lot more of a white lie then "he betrayed and murdered your father" but theres no doubt obiwan is a good guy.

4:i already explained this one, try reading the whole thread.

5:anakin was alot fiercer then obiwan, if you read the book of the movie (no its not EU, its the novelization of the movie) then you see that anakin has "strange powers" so thats why dooku had no choice but to take the opening anakin gave him and end the fight, its not like anakin would die without an arm.

6: strangely you didnt wright number six, you skipped right to number 7, and lets look at that, dooku knew that yoda had more power then he thought before (you said so yourself so dont argue that) he knew that yoda could stop a big tower from falling if dooku could push it over, and its been theorized by some that palpatine is a good guy and that in the later movies that is darth sidious not the original senator from naboo..... im not getting involved in that arguement though so dont start

Darth Knight
07-19-2002, 05:35 AM
dude he is evil end of story your arhument is very weak

Darth Talliusc
07-19-2002, 05:40 AM
i wish you could eliminate posts from your own thread (cough darth knight cough). if you dont like my ideas say that you want more proof, or better yet stop visiting this thread. dont say mean stuff just because you think otherwise, lets just get along a'right?

teutonicknight
07-19-2002, 06:29 AM
Well I think carrying Death Star plans to your master, using force lighting on 3 ft tall people (Hey, pick on some one your own size!), ordering thousands of Battle Droids to kill 2 hundred jedi, and having a red saber is far than enough proff that Darth Tyrannus is evil

icefox98
07-19-2002, 07:00 AM
Okay, here goes.

Dooku is cultured. Look at his story on www.starwars.com, it says he came from a very rich background *cough count cough*.

He is honorable. Not wanting to kill the Jedi right away, saluting Yoda...etc etc.

He is an honorable and cultered bad guy, that is why you *think* he's "nice."

'Nuff said.

Jedi_Monk
07-19-2002, 11:13 AM
ok number 1: we have no evidence that it was dooku that hired jango to kill padme, it could have been just the neimodians acting separately.
That was one of the stipulations for the Niemoidians joining Dooku's Sepratist movement... "I will not sign your treaty until I have Senator Amidala's head on my desk!" Also, Jango's obviously Dooku's lacky; he was hired by "a man called Tyrannus" to be the template for a clone army (obviously, he means Darth Tyrannus, who is Dooku) and he's acting as Dooku's bodyguard on Geonosis. That's all the evidence I need.

2: who said that dooku knows exactly where sidious is? i dont think he keeps a standard residence.
If Dooku didn't know how to find Sidious, then how was it that he could go directly to Sidious after fleeing Geonosis?

(no its not EU, its the novelization of the movie)
Only the scripts and movies are not EU.

Once again, your arguments are unconvincing and do not stand up to the facts. Dooku=bad guy.

http://members.aol.com/dannilalfletch/Jedi_Monk.jpg

Darth Joka'ar
07-19-2002, 01:11 PM
Jedi_Monk has the point. Come on, In your title said "Dooku WAS a good guy" and yes Count Dooku is really a good guy. But in Episode II, he is no more Count Dooku, his identity is now Darth Tyranus, the dark jedi. The identity of Count Dooku is no more.

Darth Vader is a bad guy in my perspective. During the day he killed Palpy, he was no more DV, but he is Ani.

Anyway, Darth Talliusc, are u Darth Tyranus? What I really means is, are u Christopher Lee? So, u are tyring to protect yourself in Eps II :D HAH!

mythren
07-19-2002, 11:48 PM
Just to point out something from earlier:

Palpatine did, in fact, know of Ani's existance in EP1, quite earlier than they actually met, I believe...perhaps even before he sent Maul, supposedly, to his death. There are many ways he could have done this; either intercepting a transmission (Qui-Gon's to Obiwan with Ani's midiclorian [sp?] count...I haven't watched EP1 in a while but I believe Maul was already on Tatooine), or, considering he has a great knack for the future-telling thing, he might have learned that way.

Anyone else remember Palpatine turning to Ani at the end-celebration thing and saying something about "watching your career VERY closely"?

_________

I might be wrong, but I thought I'd point out my thoughts.

Also, Dooku was bad :). Red Saber, fought with a good guy, tried to kill Obi and Ani, was cocky, got the smack laid down on him by a midget, had to push a pillar towards the midgets friends to escape.

Darth Joka'ar
07-20-2002, 04:30 PM
"We will be watching your career in great interest" Palpy.

Tyranus is evil.

mima kake
07-21-2002, 06:11 AM
I think he is a bad guy because he's played by mister C lee

I mean he's an actor who almost only play badguy's (or at least is known for it):D

Darth Joka'ar
07-23-2002, 12:22 AM
2: who said that dooku knows exactly where sidious is? i dont think he keeps a standard residence.

Darth Sidious was in Corrocsant all the way during TPM. Just inform the Jedi Order and then it will be settle the future war. Tyranus, bad guy. Dooku god guy.

Darth_Lando
07-23-2002, 11:49 AM
Come on guys, even during the battle between Dooku and Yoda, Yoda said "The Dark Side I sense in you."

Darth Tyranus betrayed and murdered Count Dooku. ;) :D

If you think he is a good guy then you will never become a true Jedi because he has decieved you and you have shown how easily persuaded to the dark side you are prone. Yes.

Qui-GONE Jinn
07-23-2002, 04:16 PM
ok number 1: we have no evidence that it was dooku that hired jango to kill padme, it could have been just the neimodians acting separately.

Okay, we don't have PROOF that the sun will rise tomorrow either, now have we??

Darth Joka'ar
07-24-2002, 02:44 AM
Yeah, agree with Darth Lando.But the poster is no Jedi, he is a Sith/Dark Jedi.

Well deceived.

Darth Groovy
07-24-2002, 03:38 AM
I heard Dooku did alot of charity work. He also sang on the USA for Africa Album.

Darth Joka'ar
07-24-2002, 05:14 AM
Did you say Dooku? So, Dooku indeed a good guy, but still he was murdered by Tyranus. Sadly....:(

STTCT
07-24-2002, 07:51 AM
But the Jedi didn't realize Dooku's secret. Behind a veneer of elegant charisma and well-tabled political arguments, Dooku had been corrupted by the power of the dark side. After his departure from the Jedi order, Dooku was seduced to the dark side by Darth Sidious, the Dark Lord of the Sith. By Sith tradition, Dooku adopted the name Darth Tyranus and added deceit and treachery to his already formidable array of weapons.

this from the star wars website...he's EVIL!!!! Its all part of palps plan. He's testing which is better....the driods or the clones. Its all part of a big set-up for the jedi

NwO_2k_Mutt
07-25-2002, 04:36 PM
ok here is the bio of Count Dooku right from SW.com ! Read it and say what you will he is EVIL ! Nuf said

http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/countdooku/index.html

Darth Joka'ar
07-26-2002, 03:30 AM
Darth Talliusc has stop debating.

epickman316
05-26-2013, 10:31 PM
Dooku was good... if you dont believe it your all sheep... I dont care what web site has
A profile of him stating he was evil.. there are so many reasons why I believe he was good
But the bottom line is what he fought for in episode 2 is the same thing they faught for in episode 3 4 5 and 6... if you pay attention he even tells obiwan that senator palpatine is the dark sith lord, ppl can say but dooku works for him as darth tyranuss but the way I see it is dooku cut his losses after the clone army destroyed his separatist droid army.. in episode 3 padama is talking to anakin stateing that she feels there on the wrong side, anakin responds with your sounding like a sepratist.. count dooku would have had quagon fighting along side him if he were still alive.. dooku lost his "secret" droid army he was going to use to take out the evil sith lord, so he rejoined palpatine, he had no choice, dooku had his own agenda till his army was wiped out, dooku was barley considered a sith lord but a dark jedi, there is a difference he played both sides so he could gain an advantage against palpatine. Read the opening credits of 3, there are heros on both sides, refering to dooku as a hero. Hes clearly a rouge jedi... not a bad guy...

epickman316
05-26-2013, 10:57 PM
This has been said millions of times before by myself and many others before, but:


Dooku is bad. He went to Kamino 10 years ago under the name of Sifo-Dias and orderd clones under the order of Palpatine/Sidious(they are the same person). He was officialy Palpy's apprentice of evil. Palpy told Dooku to start a seperatists movement so that he could use his clones and show his power. Then, Palpy thought no one would dare stand up.

Dooku=Bad guy


Ok so what you said about dooku ordering the clones is wrong.. darth plaguies ordered the clones, darth plaguies is master sifo-dias and he ordered the clones then was killed in his sleep by palpatine and he took over overseeing the clone army... just sayin..

And ol GL definitely had all 9 scripts all wrote when he made 4 back in the 70s.. and even tho Disney bought the rights GL is making sure the next 3 movies are as he intended.. so expect to see the emporor because he is mosy definitely a clone in 6, how does a clone have sith powers you say lol the emporor clearly says he can create life through midiclorins.

Pho3nix
05-27-2013, 06:29 AM
Holy ****

Alexrd
05-27-2013, 03:28 PM
Only Van Helsing can handle this thread necromancy.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Y3eDDbK1Gsg/TsRWjWbFgsI/AAAAAAAAAgY/CX0b1K64iJ4/s1600/Van+Helsing+-+Peter+Cushing-+.jpg