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Darth Windu
07-31-2002, 04:22 AM
Thought id make a thread for ideas for unique units if there is a SW:GB 2.

1. Confederacy - Geonosian Warrior, Destroyer Droid, Animal predators
2. Trade Federation - Destroyer Droid, Grapple Droid (Jedi Power Battles)
3. Empire - Probot, Super Star Destoryer (Super Air Cruiser), Dark Trooper
4. Rebels - Airspeeder, A-wing, Bothan Spy
5. Republic - Jedi Starfighter, Jedi Knight/Master (remove jedi normal unit), Gunship
6. Naboo - Royal Crusader
7. Gungans - Fambaa shield, Amphibious trooper
8. Wookies - Berserker, Forest scout

New Units-
1. Grapple droid - melee unit
2. Super star Destroyer - larger air cruiser with better range, hp etc
3. Bothan Spy - like spy in C&C: Red Alert, get it into opponents buildings and you can see what their building
4. Jedi Starfighter - faster fighter with jedi abilities such as cloaking
5. Gunship - well armoured assault troop transport, would come with mech transport with lower carriage abilities compared to other civs
6. Jedi Knight/Master - like in the game, except only research from knight to master (master gets turning, cloaking etc)
7. Amphibious trooper - normal trooper that can swim
8. Forest scout - infantry scout with mech scout abilities except slower, but can walk through forests

Thoughts?

jcb231
07-31-2002, 08:32 AM
I don't like the idea of only republic having jedi.

Kryllith
07-31-2002, 09:19 AM
I wasn't sure how to read that myself. Would this mean that Republic would be the only civ to get Jedi? Or perhaps they'd be the only civ to get Jedi Masters? Or would they have the ability to turn all their Knights into Masters via any upgrade, rather than having Knights and Masters being different units? The last option was the way I initially read it...

Kryllith

Sithmaster_821
07-31-2002, 10:09 AM
OMFG, you've got to be kidding me. Gunship thread #5! Dont argue that there are other ideas. Just shut up about the gunship.
Also, I think i addressed this idea before, there will, and you can quote me, be no SWGB2. It was just Lucasarts testing the RTS waters. It was a small scale project to try and reinvent the Star Wars RTS before they make a mass market game of their own. And they will not use the AoK structure in the game, nor will they copy the units from SWGB. You have to think outside the box, windu, I know its hard for you. They will instead strive for a more Star Wars feel with unique unit sets per civ, not the AoK structure with generic units and one or two unique units.

Even if there is a sequel (when pigs fly), it wont:
1 Use some else's engine
2 Copy the units from SWGB
3 Stick to the game structure of AoK

jcb231
07-31-2002, 01:20 PM
I disagree....SWGB sold very very well. LA would be dumb not to release a sequel...even if they don't actually call it SWGB2. And along those lines...why would LA go to the trouble of creating an engine from scratch when they could alter and update the existing engine further or find another game's engine for a sequel? Their work would be half done. Less work equals more profit, and tried and true game engines assure that the fans'll like it. And they already tested the RTS waters with Rebellion and Force Commander. Battlegrounds WAS their mass market game to appease the hordes of people who complained Force Commander should have been more like AoK. LA basically said "You want a game that's more like AoK? Well here ya go...look kids, its AoK with Star Wars units" and then wiped its collective brow in relief over not having to create a new game engine. I say that LA will release a second x-pack to the current game sometime within the next year, provided sales continue to be good...Graber said as much in one of his posts....if the interest is there there will be additional x-packs. I'd then expect the next Star Wars RTS game (whether it be a straight sequel or a different style) to appear shortly before ep III...maybe in time for xmas season of 2004, with an expansion pack to coincide with the new movie in summer of 2005, like they did this time around with the game release in the fall of 2001 and then ep II and the Clone Campaigns pack in summer 2002. I couldn't think of a better opportunity than that...LA would cash in on the new movie just like they did this time around with ep II.

Sithmaster_821
07-31-2002, 09:36 PM
SWGB sold very very well
Try moderately well.why would LA go to the trouble of creating an engine from scratch when they could alter and update the existing engine further or find another game's engine for a sequel?
Most people's (from critics to the average consumer) biggest problem with the game (and the main reason it wasnt mass marketed) was the fact that it used some one else's engine. Its not about profits, its about ethics and respectabiltity.
Battlegrounds WAS their mass market game to appease the hordes of people who complained Force Commander should have been more like AoK
Its clear that most of your info is secondhand. SWGB was an under the radar game that used a tried and true engine to reinvent and improve the Star Wars RTS after the mass market flops of Rebellion and Force Commander. It was merely a faith building and learning experience for Lucasarts.
if the interest is there
You are aware that we have a online community of 600 people. Thats the same amount the old AoE has right now.

I hate being the cynical one, but its the truth no matter how hard it is to swallow.

Darth Windu
08-01-2002, 03:56 AM
Sithmaster - this thread is about my ideas for unique units if there is a SW:GB 2. It is logical that i would include the Gunship as a Republic unique unit idea.

As for the Jedi thing. The idea would be that the Republic is the one civ to get Jedi, with the Master an upgrade of the Knight (like the Jedi Starfighter / Adv Jedi Starfighter) Main reason being that if you look at the different civs, the Republic is the only one who should get jedi. Why? Look at the number of jedi for each civ-

Naboo = 0
Wookies = 0
Gungans = 0
Confederacy = 1 (Dath Tryannus/Count Dooku)
Trade Federation = 1 (Darth Maul)
Empire = 2 (Dath Vader, Darth Sidious)
Rebels = 1 (Luke Skywalker)
Republic = 10,000 (according to the booklet of 'Jedi Power Battles')

The other civs would get jedi, but only the hero's (ie the empire would be able to use vader and sidious)

jcb231
08-01-2002, 01:20 PM
Sithmaster....

-What exactly do you consider "Mass Market" then?
Everywhere I turn is selling SWGB and CC.....EB, Toys R Us, Wal Mart, Target, Best Buy, Circuit City, Office Depot, K-Mart, catalogs, online sites, etc, etc, etc....anymore mass market and they'd be selling it at gas stations, roadside stands, and McDonalds.
I saw GB at far more stores and advertised way more than Force Commander OR Rebellion. It also got more attention in most gaming and computer magazines I saw than either of those games.

-It still sold pretty darn well. Compare it to many other games out there and its one of the more popular ones to have come out in the last few months. It certainly sold well enough to warrant the expansion, and I say it warrants a second expansion....if they released a second expansion "under the radar" as you say, they would most assuredly make a tidy profit still, even if the mass market isn't ready for a second one yet.

-The game still got very good reviews overall....the recycled engine complaint was small in virtually every review I read.
The logic here is if its a good engine, its a good engine. I'd far rather play with an established game engine than a new, untested, crappy engine like the Force Commander one. And its not abour "ethics and responsibility" its about making a fun, good game that yes, does turn a tidy profit. Therefore an established engine is the smart way to go....people already like it and will therefore buy it.

-600 people online? Who cares? Online alone does not define a game, and the last time I checked the were more than 600 anyway. And besides, that's still good for a game that came out in November, especially since Civ III and Warcraft III have come out in the meantime. Yeah, it's not "The Sims" good, but what is?

Sithmaster_821
08-01-2002, 09:34 PM
Jcb: You misunderstood me. SWGB is by far a better game than most people give it credit and I play it almost exclusively (also play AoC). This is what happened. Force Commander, which was heavily publisized(SP?) was panned and flopped sale-wise. The higher-ups in Lucasarts decided to rethink and refurbish their RTS games using a proven engine and a low press game which was really passed on by word of mouth. SWGB did better than expected, so Lucasarts decided to see how far they could milk the game and thus mass market CC through ads and making it the only Episode 2 game to go on to the computer. SWGB is a very good game but the major RTS is still to come. A respectable game producer like Lucasarts wouldnt dare hurt its integrity and use someone else's work in their big game. Also the money you save in work done is lost in royalties.

Windu: Ive long since given up on your intelligence level. You do realize that when Lucasarts uses its own engine it wont fit the unit stucture of AoK. So your ideas are just pointless blabbing.

Crazyus Dogus
08-02-2002, 05:34 AM
Those are good ideas, but the Naboo should get 2 more UUs and Super Battle Droids should remain the Confid's troopers.

jcb231
08-02-2002, 05:41 AM
I see some of your points, but it still seems to me like there was an awful lot of press attention and advertisements for GB, the original. It hardly seems under the radar or not mass market.

Also, from what I've read, the royalites for this game were not exorbitantly high. Microsoft seemed pretty willing to let LA use its engine for a decent price and the attention it brings to the Zone.

Also, didn't they use the Quake III engine, or some other similar existing first person shooter engine, for Jedi Knight II? I don't think that using an established engine makes you less respectable...that's like saying that programming in an established code or using an established OS makes you not respectable. I think the goal of a game manufacturer is to make games that are fun to play (and turn a profit). If the game is fun, who cares if the engine has been used before? I say its respectable to make fun games like GB, and not respectable to make a crappy untested engine and hock it to the unsuspecting public, a la Force Commander.

Darth Windu
08-02-2002, 08:11 AM
sithmaster - you dont know that. As the game was based on AoK with mainly generic units and a few unique units, my idea's will be based on that.

crazyus - yes they should, i just couldnt think of any for them

Sithmaster_821
08-04-2002, 10:43 PM
you dont know that
I dont know what?

Jcb, i read all the info i posted in some interview a long time ago. Thats Lucasarts reasons behind SWGB, it came from the horses mouth (i think). Also, although i maybe wrong, wasnt JKII merely outsourced to Raven?

Darth Windu
08-05-2002, 08:27 AM
sithmaster - my 'you dont know that' comment was refering to you saying that with a sequel, the units wouldnt fit the AoK unit structure. At the moment two of the newsest games out there, AoM and RoN both fit that structure.

Sithmaster_821
08-05-2002, 05:50 PM
It has become evident how little you truly know about either game. AoM uses a unique unit set per culture, and the three major gods per culture share that set and the different playstyle of the culture. Major gods are like civs and have 3-4 bonuses, one of which being pretty major and game changing. Each age you chose between two minor gods that offer their own myth unit, godpower and three myth techs.

RoN uses a widespread unit structure that spans all of time. It concentrates on city building and all that other tbs junk (:p simwiz). Its units strengthes are based on the resources you have.

If all you know about a game is stuff gleaned off screenies, then dont open your big mouth because you are most likely wrong.

Darth Windu
08-06-2002, 06:31 AM
sithmaster - as i said, as there is no indication that lucasarts is going to go to a radically different engine, the only thing to do is base new ideas on the assumption that the engine will be very similar to the current engine.

Sithmaster_821
08-06-2002, 08:18 PM
radically different engine
those are the two closest engines. As i said before, lucasarts will not copy an engine for obvious reasons.

simwiz2
08-06-2002, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
It has become evident how little you truly know about either game. AoM uses a unique unit set per culture, and the three major gods per culture share that set and the different playstyle of the culture. Major gods are like civs and have 3-4 bonuses, one of which being pretty major and game changing. Each age you chose between two minor gods that offer their own myth unit, godpower and three myth techs.

RoN uses a widespread unit structure that spans all of time. It concentrates on city building and all that other tbs junk (:p simwiz). Its units strengthes are based on the resources you have.

I'm all for flaming Windu for his stupid ideas here, especially only the republic getting jedi and his 5th gunship lamentation. But as for RoN, you are using information gleaned off biased AoM forums that is not at all accurate. It would be like me basing my opinion of RTS in general off of stuff found in a civ3 forum. Using that I would call all RTS "clickfests", shallow, boring, pointless war-games lacking anything more than destroy-or-be-destroyed mentality. If you checked the RoN websites rather than believing the WC3/AoM types (who likely hate TBS and all TBS concepts) you would realize that RoN is more than city building, it is actually making a country while possibly fighting wars and using real diplomacy (not some lame checkbox for ally, nuetral, enemy). This makes for a much more interesting game, with the object being to use war AND/OR diplomacy to obtain a superior nation, rather than the traditional RTS pointless war of "destroy his base before he destroys mine".

And btw, AoM is just Ensemble's attempt to please both the Age and WC groups by merging the two,with heroes, god powers, etc. :p

Sithmaster_821
08-06-2002, 08:51 PM
you are using information gleaned off biased AoM forums that is not at all accurate
Actually i used info gleaned off you. And at AoM forums, we dont talk about other games. We actually have some decency. Maybe that shows whose game is better.
war AND/OR diplomacy
Yeah! 5 hour games where everyone plays SimCity and builds ice cream shops to keep their people happy. Earth to simwiz-people play strategy games to do war and kill things. No one wants to make pretty buildings or expand their borders or find horses.
And btw, AoM is just Ensemble's attempt to please both the Age and WC groups by merging the two,with heroes, god powers, etc.
Umm...no. And fyi, RoN is just a merger of the Age series and the civ series.

I wasnt flaming RoN, just windu.

DemonKing
08-07-2002, 12:36 AM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
Jcb: The higher-ups in Lucasarts decided to rethink and refurbish their RTS games using a proven engine and a low press game which was really passed on by word of mouth.

blabbing.

I think after a number of flops and sub-par games LucasArts realised that they didn't have the in-house talent to produce AAA titles anymore, and decided to farm out more projects to top developers and/or use established engines, hence:

1. SW:GB using AOK engine.
2. Jedi Knight II by Raven, using Quake III engine
3. SW:KOTOR by Bioware
4. SW: Galaxies by Sony

Regards,

Darth Windu
08-07-2002, 03:26 AM
simwiz - exactly h0ow is the Republic only having Jedi stupid? Exactly which civ, not including the 'hero' units, has jedi? Only the Republic has them, and so the other civs would get melee units, just not as good (ie wookie berserker, federation grapple droid)

simwiz2
08-07-2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Thought id make a thread for ideas for unique units if there is a SW:GB 2.

3. Empire - ...Super Star Destoryer (Super Air Cruiser)...
5. Republic - Jedi Starfighter, Jedi Knight/Master (remove jedi normal unit), Gunship

New Units-
11. Super star Destroyer - larger air cruiser with better range, hp etc
12. Bothan Spy - like spy in C&C: Red Alert, get it into opponents buildings and you can see what their building
14. Gunship - well armoured assault troop transport, would come with mech transport with lower carriage abilities compared to other civs
15. Jedi Knight/Master - like in the game, except only research from knight to master (master gets turning, cloaking etc)
16. Amphibious trooper - normal trooper that can swim
17. Bongo - frigate that can carry 2 infantry units
18. Forest scout - infantry scout with mech scout abilities except slower, but can walk through forests

Thoughts?

3 - Is this supposed to be another incarnation of your later "AT-AT of the skies" Gunship with rediculous overpowered stats? Give it a rest.

5 - Republic are the only civ to get Jedi? This is outlandish. Many people who buy the game will not know what a gunship is, what a starfighter is, how many jedi each civ had. Many people want the star wars experience, which most definately includes jedi. If this were limited to one civ it would likely result in many less-dedicated star wars fans putting the game on the shelf. And shut up about the damn gunship already. Just look on one of your 4 other Gunship threads for reasons why it will not work.

11 - OMG, you have got to be kidding me. Better RANGE?? Are you aware that the current air cruiser already has enough range to make it one of the most destructive units in the game, it has one of the highest ground attack range of any unit that is not burdened by a deploy/undeploy requirement. They have rather high HP's already, and more armor would make them almost indestructible. You want an overpowered unit to beat the AI with on easiest. Just admit it.

12 - Not sure how this works but I believe it would be a micromanaging hell. During the battles one does not have time to go around placing spies manually about his opponents empire. However, I think the Bothan Spies tech should be changed so that you can see their buildings LoS, not their units.

14 - You just don't know when to shut up about something.

15 - Wasn't aware that these were new units.

16 - And some more of the map-specific civs that was already discussed and argued about. So let's see, you balance Gungans on water maps, then they are useless on say a flats map. You balance them on land maps and they will be overpowered on a rivers map.

17 - OMG, its the useless Gunship of the water. Windu, you just can't give up on the Gunship for some reason, even though it has been proven faulty many times.

18 - Well it's not as bad as your amphibious trooper idea but it would need to be carefully balanced. Also the wookiee player might just roach the unit in the forests, and only air units could get at it, making for a long, boring endgame even after the game is ovbiously won.

simwiz2
08-07-2002, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

(1) Actually i used info gleaned off you. And at AoM forums, we dont talk about other games. We actually have some decency. Maybe that shows whose game is better.

(2) Yeah! 5 hour games where everyone plays SimCity and builds ice cream shops to keep their people happy. Earth to simwiz-people play strategy games to do war and kill things. No one wants to make pretty buildings or expand their borders or find horses.

1 - How did you glean info off of me? I rarely post about RoN on these forums. And I never said that the RoN forumers talk excessively about AoM, just the Civ3 forumers do, which shows that civ3 sucks, i agree with that. Btw, AoM forums DO have posts about RoN.

2 - What??? Simcity? Umm...no. AND THERE ARE NO ICE CREAM SHOPS!!!!! Find horses? AoM has horses!! And their main target is "history in a lunch hour", not 5 hours.

Everything you have said about RoN is the almost exact copy of what I have seen on an AoM forum. Were I to take what came up in a RoN forum comparison post "What game is going to do the best" I would be saying that AoM was just a dumb childish fantasy game, and that Age was becoming more like WC. Now I know none of that is accurate (except the WC one :p ), just as nothing you have said about RoN is accurate.

RoN is trying to merge two different types of games, and if successful it will be a unique and fun game. AoM is just trying to make a bit more money by appealing to both Age and WC fans.

If the Age series' past record is considered, AoM will be a mess of overpowered units (Paladins), worthless units and super-civ (Huns) and n00b civs (Koreans), and uncounterable strategies (teurton TC rush, which should have never made it past beta testing). Only it will be much worse because now there are heroes, god powers (*cough, warcraft's spells) that all need balancing. And as their record for game balance is poor, it will be a complete mess.

Sithmaster_821
08-07-2002, 06:06 PM
AoM forums DO have posts about RoN
Will, you never go to AoM forums, and i told you everything you know about AoM.
AoM has horses
Yeah, but their horses arent resoures
n00b civs (Koreans)
What was that mr. my-koreans-own-you
If the Age series' past record is considered, AoM will be a mess of overpowered units (Paladins), worthless units and super-civ (Huns) and n00b civs (Koreans), and uncounterable strategies (teurton TC rush, which should have never made it past beta testing). Only it will be much worse because now there are heroes, god powers (*cough, warcraft's spells) that all need balancing. And as their record for game balance is poor, it will be a complete mess.
Ensemble has the best balancing after this game (which they gave balancing suggestions to).
How did you glean info off of me
a little invention i call the telephone.

You and i both know that youre gonna buy AoM, and dont really believe in what you say.

On to Windu. Do you realize that it is still possible to become a respectable forumer, even with your track record? People will eventually forgive and forget all of your stupid posts (there have been lots) if you would only try to sound intelligent and reasonable. I thought maybe you had learned your lesson when posted that rep/reb tech switch, but no, you have to blow it with this thread and two others that contain as much intellect as a jar of mayonaise. Not to mention you have a better chance of getting change from a vending machine than you do with those ideas. Before posting, think: is this a good idea? Does this idea make me look like i have a negative IQ? Should i reveal this crazed thing to the public? Also, become more knowledgeable. There is more than enough info about AoM at this site (http://aom.heavengames.com). I dont know about RoN, ask simwiz. Read up on how to be a better player like not grouping all of your units in one group. I think theres a QandA forum here for newbies like yourself. You'll notice the faint swelling in your skull from your brain growing after following these suggestions and you'll come back a normal human being. Until then, my peanut-brained amigo, please try hard not to sound as dumb as you really are.

Darth Windu
08-08-2002, 07:30 AM
simwiz - i disagree, making the jedi a republic unique unit is the best thing lucasarts could do. As i said, the Republic is the only civ with jedi (apart from hero's) and also, the other civs would be compensated with melee UU's.

Also, with the map-specific units, it really doesnt matter, civs like the TF and gungans are disadvantaged on non-water maps, so having map-specific units wouldnt make much different. Also, the wookie forest scout would be able to be attacked by any unit, its ability would be being able to move through forests.

With the spy, there is a bit of micromanagement, but it works really well, ask anyone who has played Command & Conquer: Red Alert and most would say that the spy is one of the most useful units because by seeing what your enemy is building, you can build a force to stop the army of your enemy before it is complete.

Sithmaster_821
08-08-2002, 07:48 PM
Windu, if you mention Star Wars to anybody, the first thing they think of are Jedi and lightsabers. Thats why they're in the game in the first place. It wouldnt be star wars without jedi. Also, the jedi arent owned by anybody in particular. The jedi, like bounty hunters, are requested to come help the respective colony via the local Jedi temple. The creation time is shipping time and the costs are in payments to the order itself.

The gungs and tfs arent map specific, and they excel and any map. Adding those features, though, is like shooting yourself in the foot. Neither the gung, tf, or wook bonuses can work on plains, making them at a serious disadvantage.

I read somewhere that humans naturally act first, and then rationalize there ideas. I guess your trying a bit to hard to be human. Either that or your brain is on slow motion.

Darth Windu
08-09-2002, 06:25 AM
sithmaster - the game would still have the jedi in it, but remember that in both ep1 and ep2, the jedi report to the head of the republic, not the members of the republic. They are lead republic forces during the battle of geonosis, and yoda was the general! As i said, the republic has 10,000 jedi, the others have a max of 2, some dont have any at all.

Also with the gungan/wookie unique units, they could be altered in a way so that the wookie scout can also go through fields of carbon, nova and ore; and with the gungan trooper give them the ability to climb cliffs.

simwiz2
08-09-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Also with the gungan/wookie unique units, they could be altered in a way so that the wookie scout can also go through fields of carbon, nova and ore

That will help a bit on those desert maps, but on flats maps, for example, there are trees but not enough to make the UU worthwhile. So wookiees would be worthless on flats maps, and other similar maps.

And ore/nova fields? Yes, they are so BIG, a shortcut through a 3-tile ore field would save so much time :rolleyes:

Darth Windu
08-10-2002, 01:22 AM
look, the UU's would be able to provide an advantage on the majority of maps, and if it is flat, that side really hasnt lost anything? The probot would also be pretty much useless on a flat map, but it is an Empire UU.

simwiz2
08-10-2002, 11:06 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
The probot would also be pretty much useless on a flat map, but it is an Empire UU.

There's a small (:rolleyes: ) difference between a probot, which has an entire 15 hp, and like 2 attack; and an amphibious soldier, which can rush across water and actually engage in combat. The empire is not overpowered on space maps and is still good on all-plains maps because of the relatively small impact its probot UU has on gameplay. OTOH, if the Dark Trooper could go across all terrain, there WOULD definately be a problem.

Sithmaster_821
08-10-2002, 09:38 PM
the head of the republic
Um, windu, when you play as the republic, you arent the head of the republic, just a colony. You still have to request jedi just like anyone else.

Darth Windu
08-11-2002, 12:08 AM
I disagree. The jedi work for the Republic (which is why Dooku left) and as we saw fought as part of the Republic Army on Geonosis.

Tyrion
08-12-2002, 04:47 AM
Er...that logic doesnt work. Jedi shouldnt be limited to only the Reblublic. First, the Rebublic wouldnt even have jedi if they're fighting the Rebels or the Empire because the Rebublic was dead then:p

Plus...it had only 10,000 3000 years before Episode I.

This game isnt true star wars...they can bend the storyline a little.

Darth Windu
08-12-2002, 06:16 AM
No, they had 10,000 at the time of episode 1. Before the Republic was added as a civ, the jedi were fine as they were, but now i think they should be altered. Firstly, they are part of the Republic, and take orders from the Senate. Also, with the idea of calling on help, why would the jedi send weak jedi to the wookies and gungans, yet very strong jedi to the naboo and republic?

Tyrion
08-12-2002, 06:29 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
No, they had 10,000 at the time of episode 1. Before the Republic was added as a civ, the jedi were fine as they were, but now i think they should be altered. Firstly, they are part of the Republic, and take orders from the Senate. Also, with the idea of calling on help, why would the jedi send weak jedi to the wookies and gungans, yet very strong jedi to the naboo and republic?

Well...actually...since time is really different in this game because the Rebels and republic can fight...who knows,maybe Luke's Acadamy(So what if it isnt canon..stop being a fanatic) was made and that would show the big number of jedi...they would help the wookies too.

Darth Windu
08-12-2002, 06:43 AM
Luke's academy is under the control of the New Republic, not the Rebel's.

Tyrion
08-12-2002, 06:47 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Luke's academy is under the control of the New Republic, not the Rebel's.

If you had half a brain,you'd know that the Rebels are the New Republic,it's just that the Rebels were a better name than the new rebublic during the old trilogy.

simwiz2
08-12-2002, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
No, they had 10,000 at the time of episode 1. Before the Republic was added as a civ, the jedi were fine as they were, but now i think they should be altered. Firstly, they are part of the Republic, and take orders from the Senate. Also, with the idea of calling on help, why would the jedi send weak jedi to the wookies and gungans, yet very strong jedi to the naboo and republic?

Or, you just have some fascination with the republic, and now that they are added you want them to be the ONLY worthwhile civ to play. Want to be able to beat others in MP? I hate to break it to you, but if the republic is overpowered EVERYONE will choose them, so you won't get any easier wins.

I know what you are probably trying to achieve by making the republic overpowered, with both the Gunship and the Jedi, and all your other ideas. I also went through that stage with some games, when I was like 7 years old. Are you 7?

Darth Windu
08-14-2002, 04:19 AM
Tyrion - blow me. Unless you have something constructive to say without insulting me, go away because i wont bother even reading your posts.

Simwiz - ok, how about this. Everyone gets access to Jedi Knights, which are of the same specs. However, the Republic get the Jedi Master as a Unique Unit (with cloaking etc abilities). I'd also like to see the 'turning' ability removed, it seems a little stupid to me that a jedi can 'turn' a droid to their side.

Tyrion
08-14-2002, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Tyrion - blow me. Unless you have something constructive to say without insulting me, go away because i wont bother even reading your posts.

Simwiz - ok, how about this. Everyone gets access to Jedi Knights, which are of the same specs. However, the Republic get the Jedi Master as a Unique Unit (with cloaking etc abilities). I'd also like to see the 'turning' ability removed, it seems a little stupid to me that a jedi can 'turn' a droid to their side.

"Contructive"? it was just as contructive as your " Luke's academy is under the control of the New Republic, not the Rebel's" comment. Sure the "If you had half a brain" wasnt appropiate,so I apologies.

As to your statement towards Simwiz-

First,instead of getting rid of turning,just make it so that each unit in thier script has something like: (I dont know progamming)

Droid-
Jedi Turning: off

Stormtrooper-
Jedi turning: on

It'll only take a hour with a proficient programmer.,they just have to alter the code a little in each unit.

Second,the rebels still get the jedi kightsand jedi master,sfrom the jedi acadamy. The rebels pretty much are the New Republic anyway.

Kryllith
08-14-2002, 09:54 AM
On the same token. If we limit Masters to only the Republic (or the Republic and the Rebels) then I'd suggest preventing them from having bounty hunters. This puts the jedi-killers squarely in the ranks of civs that don't have Masters (besides, a Master can take a bounty one-on-one, and heal afterwards...). I'd also suggest non-turnable units--all droids, for one, and maybe some other units... perhaps an upgrade for certain civs that makes turning more difficult, like the 50% resistance upgrade bonus some civs got in AoC. I'd also suggest different powers perhaps... maybe take cloaking away from the Jedi and only giving it to the Sith, or just creating new powers for the Sith. Of course, this assumes that the Sith are indeed limited to 1 Master and 1 Apprentice. If we allow the evil civs to use Dark Jedi (like Sev'rance Tann) then we wouldn't need to balance it out as much.

Alternately, instead of changing the availabilty of Jedi at all, they could simply reduced the cost of creating or upgrading Republic Jedi or reduce the speed in which they are created. This would represent the fact that it's much easier for the Republic to attain better Jedis faster, and since they wouldn't really be "on loan" they wouldn't get paid (cost) as much. If this were done though, I'd suggest limiting the power/speed of the Republic in other fashions to balance out the jedi boost. I mean, the Republic Jedi are already the most powerful jedi in the game. Making them build faster and/or cheaper would definitely call for a lessening of power someplace else in the Republic Civ.

Kryllith

simwiz2
08-14-2002, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Simwiz - ok, how about this. Everyone gets access to Jedi Knights, which are of the same specs. However, the Republic get the Jedi Master as a Unique Unit (with cloaking etc abilities). I'd also like to see the 'turning' ability removed, it seems a little stupid to me that a jedi can 'turn' a droid to their side.

As for turning, I think it is annoying and micro-management intensive. However, it is also fun to sneak around and convert your opponenet's AA turrets, buildings, etc. So whether they remove it or not it doesn't matter to me.

As for the Republic getting Masters as a UU, it could work, but I still see no reason to do it that way. When people think of the Rebels, they think of X Wings, and Luke Skywalker.

Darth Windu
08-15-2002, 06:29 AM
Tyrion - thank you, and im sorry if i went overboard, im just sick and tired of being insulted after almost every comment i make.

Kryllith - with turning, i suppose that could work, but i would leave cloaking on. Look at the movies where obi-wan and luke get past the stormtroopers, without cloaking that wouldnt happen. I do agree though that if the Republic are the only ones with Masters, they shouldnt get bounties.

simwiz - having the Jedi Masters as a Republic UU would enhance their jedi reliance, with i think should be shown. With the rebels, they would still get access to jedi knights, and luke as a hero. (i really hate luke, he gets on my nerves so bad, you start wishing vader would chop his head off and get it over and done with)

Kryllith
08-15-2002, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Tyrion - thank you, and im sorry if i went overboard, im just sick and tired of being insulted after almost every comment i make.

Kryllith - with turning, i suppose that could work, but i would leave cloaking on. Look at the movies where obi-wan and luke get past the stormtroopers, without cloaking that wouldnt happen. I do agree though that if the Republic are the only ones with Masters, they shouldnt get bounties.

Yeah, I agree with that. My idea of removing cloaking from Jedi would be to allow only the Sith to have the ability to cloak (since they seem to be the best at clouding minds). This assumes that the evil forces only have 2 Sith available during a game, in which case they should probably have their powers augmented a bit. If they have Dark Jedi as well though, or if are possibly given other abilities, then I see no problem with the other jedis having cloaking. Mind-tricking is an often learned skills.

Of course, if we're going by the movies, then Jedi Knights should be able to mind-trick as well, not just Jedi masters.

Kryllith

eizo131
08-17-2002, 05:27 AM
Tyrion your deleted shots of ep 2 is not very appropreate but funny. now then everyone should have jedi knights and naboo, rebs, and republic should get masters cuz NABOO is part of the REPUBLIC so they should get masters amd the empire also had mara as a sith...... so that is 3:D. rebels have luke and leia and a lot of EUs characters:fett:

Darth Windu
08-17-2002, 07:37 AM
Why should the Naboo and Rebels get Jedi? The Naboo have none, the Rebels have 1, yet the Republic has 10,000. That is why the Jedi Master should be a Republic Unique Unit.

simwiz2
08-17-2002, 11:22 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
That is why the Jedi Master should be a Republic Unique Unit.

You see, the problem with giving the Republic all those UU's you want it to have is it will become overpowered. You can't give a civ a souped-up aircruiser that can carry 10 units (end of second gunship thread), give it BY FAR the best jedi, and give it good air and troops (which I happen to like) and still keep it balanced.

Tyrion
08-17-2002, 11:32 AM
Originally posted by eizo131
Tyrion your deleted shots of ep 2 is not very appropreate but funny. now then everyone should have jedi knights and naboo, rebs, and republic should get masters cuz NABOO is part of the REPUBLIC so they should get masters amd the empire also had mara as a sith...... so that is 3:D. rebels have luke and leia and a lot of EUs characters:fett:

You're the second person to be fooled...:D

Tyrion
08-17-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Why should the Naboo and Rebels get Jedi? The Naboo have none, the Rebels have 1, yet the Republic has 10,000. That is why the Jedi Master should be a Republic Unique Unit.

Well there shoudlnt be any sith,as there is only 4 in the movies and in the empire.

According to your logic.

Kryllith
08-17-2002, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by Tyrion


Well there shoudlnt be any sith,as there is only 4 in the movies and in the empire.

According to your logic.
Yes, and he already said that the Confederacy, TF, and Empire would be limited in their Sith to 2 (the heroes). Which is fine and dandy, but makes me wonder what happens if someone plays TF against the Confed? Does 1 civ get Maul, the other get Tyrannus, and both get Sidious concurrently?

Kryllith

Darth Windu
08-18-2002, 04:20 AM
What i actually meant was that you could still use the Hero's (ie Darth Maul) in serario's and that. There could be Dark Jedi Knights for the 'bad' civs.

Simwiz - so they they would be overpowered if their balanced??? In all of my ideas, the question has been would you want this, if it could be balanced? Besides, the Gunship would not be an air cruiser that could carry troops, id actually like to see it with Jedi Starfighter weapons (give the starfighter normal fighter weapons), no shields, a few more hitpoints, and the ability to carry 2 infantry, but we'll leave that to the other thread.

Also at the moment the TF, confed's, gungans and wookies dont get master's anyway, so the only change to the jedi would be removing the master from the empire, rebels and naboo.

Legacy_Of_Sith
08-18-2002, 01:23 PM
I wouldn't mind a Republic Gunship as a unique unit if it's balanced.

eizo131
08-19-2002, 03:04 AM
UH-Oh more gunship stuff.... Ok the naboo should masters because the are part of the republic making them a republic planet. They only have a militia because they needed 1 to fight of the TF and the republic had an army of jedis so..... the naboo should have masters rebs should have masters because if you have jk2 or read EUs then you know the rebels have an academy on Yavin 4. Instead of Sith their should be dark jedis for the bad guys since their only 5 sith ( Darth Vader, Darth Sidios, Darth Maul, Mara Jade, Count Dooku. ) Nice to see that the sight overloaded yesterday. ( Euro time ):fett:

Darth Windu
08-19-2002, 06:07 AM
eizo - by your logic the Republic, Naboo, Wookies, Gungans and Trade Federation would all get master's because they are part of the Republic. What im saying is that the jedi are under the control of the republic, not its members, and because of that, plus the jedi being part of the republic army in ep2, the jedi matser should be a republic UU.

Kryllith
08-19-2002, 11:10 AM
I think that if masters are limited to only a few civs, then some of the higher level powers should become available to jedi knights. The civs with Masters would still have a distinct advantage over the non-master civs, but there wouldn't be such a large gap between Masters and Knights...

Kryllith

simwiz2
08-19-2002, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Simwiz - so they they would be overpowered if their balanced??? In all of my ideas, the question has been would you want this, if it could be balanced? Besides, the Gunship would not be an air cruiser that could carry troops, id actually like to see it with Jedi Starfighter weapons (give the starfighter normal fighter weapons), no shields, a few more hitpoints, and the ability to carry 2 infantry, but we'll leave that to the other thread.

Your example here would be underpowered. Rediculously. But there is the problem - a lot of the things you are suggesting cannot be balanced:

I was just thinking of something, the Gunship is effectively a flying assault mech. It has the twin lasers (the pods on the side) could carry the same amount of troops, similar speed/cost etc. Would be nice...
Please explain how you would balance this brilliant example.

And unless there is a drastic strengthening of Knights, giving masters only to the Republic would be unbalanced. They can take out almost anything exept buildings and bounties.

Legacy_Of_Sith
08-19-2002, 08:50 PM
Eizo, Mara Jade was never a sith!

eizo131
08-20-2002, 03:23 AM
Mara is an assasin with a purple lightsaber good enough and her master is the emporer. Fine that makes 4 sith then.
Windu- You have a point. But the Rebels SHOULD get masters. Because of the EU characters and they are the republic sort of......:fett:

Darth Windu
08-21-2002, 06:33 AM
simwiz - apart from that being a very old quote, i didnt say that is what the gunship should be like, i was simply making a comparison of the gunship and AT-TE/AT-AT in the movies.

eizo - mara jade aint a sith, remember 'always two there are, no more, no less' - yoda. Also, the Rebels are not the New Republic, two different things.

With the Jedi thing, i still think the Republic should have the master as a UU. Of course, there would have to be changes to how jedi work and all that sorta stuff. I suppose it would be like the Destroyer doid as the master, and the strike mech as the knight.

lukeiamyourdad
08-22-2002, 02:08 PM
I think the jedis are good how they are. who cares if it isn't true in the books or the movies are in anything!!!!:mad: It doesn't have to be true because it's fun to play with jedis and giving the masters to only one civ would be deceiving for the people who like to play with the naboo rebels or empire and that uses masters with those civs to have to play with the republic because they could'nt get their favorite unit with the other civs.:(

:ewok: :ewok: :ewok:

Sithmaster_821
08-26-2002, 11:27 PM
Windu, if your not satisfied wiht the game, leave. You'll do the whole community a favor. If you are satisfied and all your rambling is some perverse way to call attention to yourself, then you should shut your face.

If the republic is the only one to get jedi, how is this fair? Thats like saying the empire should be the only one with troopers because there where more stormtroopers than anyone elses troopers.

Gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism, gameplay over realism,

Got it?

lukeiamyourdad
08-27-2002, 09:56 AM
Sithmaster's got a point here. Gameplay should always be put before realism. I don't think it would be fun if it was exactly like the movies.

KoL ShadowJedi
08-27-2002, 12:18 PM
if it was like the movies the good guys wud always win but i always play as good guys except once twice

Legacy_Of_Sith
08-28-2002, 02:06 PM
We must realize that a game based on pure canon would dirupt balance.

joesdomain
08-28-2002, 06:51 PM
Empire- snowtroopers(battle of hoth) added to troop center,
imperial officers and guards added to troop center; imperial probe droid added to command center; Add Royal Guards to Sith Temple; Tie advanced, imperial shuttle (lamda class), Imperial Star Destroyer Class I and II, Death Star, and Super Star Destroyer added to the airbase then
I would change the empire airbase to allow you to make tie fighter, tie interceptor, tie defender at the same time without losing the ability to make tie fighters once you upgrade.
Add Captain Piett and Admiral Piett, Admiral Ozzel, Moff Tarkin, Moff Jerrrod (In charge of Death Star II) to toy box units.
Increase shields, armor, duraarmor on AT-AT.

Rebels-add rebel hoth troopers and rebel endor troopers to troop center; Add b-wings, v-wings, millenium falcon, corelllian corvette, mon calamari star cruisers, escort frigates to airbase; add Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, Admiral Ackbar, General Nadine, Mon Momtha, Wedge, and Biggs as toy box units

Trade Federation-
Add Droid controlled ships Trade federation battleships to airbase.
Add Repeater upgrade for troopers.
Naboo-
Add Queen's ship, Royal Yacht and Royal Bomber and Royal Cruiser(Episode II); Add Repeater Upgrade for Naboo troopers

Wookies: None!

Confederacy: Add Count Dooku's ship to airbase.

Republic: Add Republic assualt ship to airbase.
Add Young Owen Lars and Beru as toy box units.

Increase the civilation population from 250 units to 500 units.

This is what I think should be upgraded or added. I have more ideas too.

Darth Windu
08-29-2002, 06:06 AM
sithmaster - i said that the Republic should be the only ones to get the MASTER not the only ones to get jedi

lukeiamyourdad
08-29-2002, 11:21 AM
joesdomain

good idea but it would not be really good if we always get snowtroopers even when we play a desert map but they should change stormtroopers into snowtroopers or sandstroopers when playing the respective map, same thing for the rebels.

Windu

I know you only said that the republic should be the only one to get masters, well it would totallly unbalance the game (if you add all the other UU you proposed for the republic).

Sithmaster_821
08-29-2002, 08:42 PM
Luke, windu doesnt understand the concept of balancing. He just comes up with the stupid ideas, its LucasArts job to balance them.here (http://www.gamespy.com/devdiary/august02/aom2/) is an article about the concept of balancing. Although its a tad specific (balancing god powers in AoM) you can generalize it very easily.

Darth Windu
09-02-2002, 05:06 AM
luke - how would it unbalance the game? The change would only affect 3 civilisations!!!!! Besides, if i didnt say it before, this is a proposed change for SW:GB 2, and since it doesnt exist yet, how could it be unbalanced?

Sithmaster_821
09-02-2002, 12:59 PM
There are somethings that are beyond balancing windu

lukeiamyourdad
09-02-2002, 01:25 PM
Actually, it would affect 4 civs(you forgot the republic).And it would give them yet another advantage against everybody else.

Now why would it be unbalanced...Well you know how different knights and masters are and even if we made the knight stronger, it would not be as strong as the master. And of course the glorious republic would have a huge advantage against everyone else.

And we know you love the republic but can you think about other people for a change?We're not all crazy republic's fan...

Kryllith
09-02-2002, 01:36 PM
In addition to making Knights closer in power to Masters, the Republic would also lose access to Bounties...

Kryllith

lukeiamyourdad
09-02-2002, 01:44 PM
I know that but it is just a minor problem. Bounties are made to hunt jedis but they are not necessary. You can beat the crap out of a jedi master with a good bunch of troopers or strike mechs and a scout(that's what i do).

Kryllith
09-02-2002, 01:51 PM
Yeah, I've mowed down numerous jedi masters with HHD. Still and all, a bounty does kill a master in only a few shots, so if you've a small collection of them they can slaughter masters pretty quickly. Besides, they aren't turnable, which is always a perk :).

Kryllith

Darth Windu
09-03-2002, 12:41 AM
luke - if you can kill master's so easily, why would it unbalance the game by only giving them to the Republic?

sithmaster - wow, what a great comment. If this idea of the Republic only getting Master's was made, the Knight's would be made stronger, and they would lose bounties. I would also want turning removed from all units, but it isnt high on my list.

Sithmaster_821
09-03-2002, 09:11 AM
There was sarcasm in that post, right? you cant tell with you windu so i have to make sure.

lukeiamyourdad
09-04-2002, 05:53 PM
It's easy to kill ONE master with that.

Once I sent five masters into a base and it wrecked havoc on them since I kept converting their strongest units and killing of the weaker units. They still survived for 5 min. which is a really good amount of time.

Darth Windu
09-05-2002, 06:33 AM
luke - jedi would lose turning, so your example is moot.

lukeiamyourdad
09-05-2002, 04:52 PM
I forgot about the turning part I guess.But they still pack a big punch and if we add 10 more to my previous five, it would have been a big attack even without turning...

Sithmaster_821
09-06-2002, 09:09 AM
Even concentrating all of your fire on the masters still takes forever to killl them without bounties.

Darth Windu
09-07-2002, 12:05 AM
*sigh* which is why if you're fighting the republic would should concentrate on getting enough bounties to fight off master's...

It would add more startegy to the game, and improve gameplay.

pbguy1211
09-07-2002, 04:24 AM
while he can't see this, i have to reply anyway...

so the republic would get another unique unit... which everyone would have to bother to defend against... as opposed to attacking. one more unit for the republic... one less for the others... unbalancing the scale even more.

it wouldn't add more "startegy" to quote windu...
and it wouldn't improve gameplay at all. how in the hell does it improve the gameplay???

windu needs to shut the hell up already with all the complaining he does about this game. he has a better idea for everything, criticizes every tiny irrelevant detail that no one else cares about... but feels the need to post 8000 times a day about how much the game could be better. i wonder why he still plays it? he doesn't seem to like it very much.

simwiz2
09-07-2002, 10:23 AM
Windu, I think you need to look back at all your ideas. Think of a GAMEPLAY reason that only the republic should get jedi/masters (you change your mind so often), and think of a GAMEPLAY reason that the Republic should have a Gunship UU. LA will not add it just because it was in the movies, especially if gameplay is reduced or balance is ruined.

lukeiamyourdad
09-07-2002, 02:03 PM
Windu-If you spend your time making bounties to fight of masters, you won't have enough time/ressource/population limit to fight a real war. Try to beat someone using only bounties...
Then come back here...

simwiz2
09-07-2002, 08:15 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
*sigh* which is why if you're fighting the republic would should concentrate on getting enough bounties to fight off master's...

*sigh* then the game would be unbalanced, since the republic player knows their opponent MUST build bounties for fighting Jedi, they can just build other units to kill the bounties... The republic player will have control, to an extent, of what units their opponents will spend resources building. That would give them an advantage.

Darth Windu
09-08-2002, 03:28 AM
Why build grenade troopers?
Why build anti-air mobiles?

If someone is playing against the rebels, they know that they will need a lot of AA defence. If they are playing against the empire, they know they will need a lot of mech defence. With my idea, people would know they need good anti-jedi defence.

It also further differentiates the civ's, increases realism, and would alter the strategies of people fighing with or against any civ.

pbguy1211
09-08-2002, 03:45 AM
is he this dumb?
i mean, is he really this dumb?
tell me he isn't this dumb?

EVERYONE can build grenaders...
EVERYONE can build aa mobiles...

simwiz made the point i was trying to get at last night... but it was late and i couldnt formulate the thought into words.

so in windu's own little scenario game his squad... the republic have 3 unique units... the starfighter, the jedi masters, and a super airship.
so while i make aa to counter his air, he makes jedi.
So while i make bouties to counter his jedi, he makes strikes and troopers to squash my bounties.
so while he only prepares for the one UU, his opponent has to brace for 3.

idiot... what an idiot... it's frightening that he seems to have some semblance of a brain but his skull can be so damned thick for some of the most simple ideas and thoughts...

joesdomain
09-08-2002, 08:42 PM
Rebels:
B-wings(Airbase)
V-wings(Toy Box Units)

Empire:
Imperial Lamda Shuttle(Airbase)
Tie Advanced(Airbase)

Trade Federation:
Battleship
Droid Controlled Ship
Sith Probe Droid
PK Droid

Naboo:
Gian Speeder
Flash Speeder
Naboo Yacht
Naboo Royal Cruiser

Gungans:
Gungan Bongo

Republic:
Republic Assualt Ship
Republic Cruiser

Confederacy:
Geonosian Sonic Blaster

lukeiamyourdad
09-09-2002, 04:36 PM
So the republic would be really strong up in the air and on the ground as well. and that does not unbalance the game how?

Sithmaster_821
09-09-2002, 06:42 PM
Windu, the difference is that bounties counter only one unit that only one civ has. Everyone can build air and everyone can build mechs. Also, air and mechs encompass many units, not jedi, which would be a single unit. Use your head.

Darth Windu
09-10-2002, 08:51 AM
Everyone could build Jedi Knights. The only difference is that the Republic would have better jedi, just as the Rebels have better air, and the Empire has better mechs.

luke - not necessarily. As i said, im looking at SW:GB2 for this change, and we dont know how things would work. But the jedi and gunship would give the Republic good ground forces, while their air forces would be above average.

lukeiamyourdad
09-10-2002, 06:32 PM
the republic already has the best jedis!!!!!and nobody builds troopers as fast as them!!!!!!! And their air force is the second best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!don't you think that is enough!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Darth Windu
09-11-2002, 03:09 AM
THIS IDEA IS FOR SW:GB2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

simwiz2
09-11-2002, 03:26 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Everyone could build Jedi Knights. The only difference is that the Republic would have better jedi, just as the Rebels have better air, and the Empire has better mechs.

Okay. Well I think Rebels should have better troops. I mean, in the movies they had great accuracy and were able to take out tons of stormtroopers. The repeater trooper should be their UU!!!! And Rebel Air isn't different enough - the Adv Fighter should be their UU!!! Since their air did so well in the movies! Hell, why stop there, the Hvy Assault mech and Hvy Mech Destroyer should be Empire UU's, since many of the big scary mechs in the movies belonged to the empire. :rolleyes:

You don't seem to comprehend that with Generic units, completely denying key units to all but 1 civ is hard to balance. And please don't use AoE as an example of "effective" unit denial, it would only prove my point.

And you make yourself sound like an ignorant fool. The Republic would have better Jedi? THEY ALREADY DO, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!!!! And they probably will in any sequel as well, to reflect their central role in the republic military. But having better units does not mean unbalance the game. And it does not mean make a fun unit that ALL Star Wars fans can recognize and make it a UU.

lukeiamyourdad
09-11-2002, 06:25 PM
Windu,

I don't know enough about you but you seem like an idiot who wants all for one civ.
The republic is not the favorite civ of many many people and all of us have tried to stop your ''all glory to the republic'' ideas...
You should realize now that you cannot change people's mind.
People cannot accept that one civ has a too big advantage against the others.
Who cares if the republic has many jedis?
Why wasting your time arguing about that fact?
We all know that the republic has many jedis...but the jedis will all be killed...

ALL UNITS ARE SOMEWHAT UU! They have minor differences but they have differences...An AT-AT has never been seen being piloted by a gungan so that makes it an imperial UU even if it is an assault mech and everyone has an assault mech...

Darth Windu
09-12-2002, 07:15 AM
Luke - this idea of having jedi master's republic UU's is only a small part of my vision for SW:GB2. As i have said before, the entire concept of jedi would be overhauled, and to give the Republic the best jedi, they would have master's as all civ's would get generic Jedi (and sith or dark jedi). As they would all be equal, the Republic would be the only one's to get the Master. Do you understand the idea now?

Kryllith
09-12-2002, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by simwiz2


Okay. Well I think Rebels should have better troops. I mean, in the movies they had great accuracy and were able to take out tons of stormtroopers. The repeater trooper should be their UU!!!!
Well, ignoring the opening scene from Star Wars where the Rebels got obliterated, or Hoth where they might have been able to hit but couldn't damage anything, or Endor where the ewoks did all the work... wait, where are the truly accurate Rebels (other than the heroes, of course)?

Still and all, skipping the sarcasm, you might have a good idea. :) Of course, if the Imperials have such lousy aim, then they need to have the repeater, since apparently they only way they'll ever hit anything it with a wide spray of fire. Instead with could create snipers for the Rebels. :) Attack rate of the heavies, but with maybe double the range and the highest laser trooper damage (since they're doing their best to make killing shots instead of just shooting). :) Now if we could get them to climb cliffs or hide in forests (or maybe bell towers)...

(Btw, snipers is an old thought of mine, but I never got around to presenting it before.)

Kryllith

simwiz2
09-12-2002, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by Kryllith

wait, where are the truly accurate Rebels (other than the heroes, of course)?

Of course I meant the heroes. Not exactly troopers I suppose, but the whole thing was obviously sarcastic anyway.

Admiral
09-12-2002, 02:52 PM
I'm just itching, to hear what Windu's vision of SWGB 2. That could be funny.

Sithmaster_821
09-12-2002, 06:38 PM
Kryillth, you were being sarcastic right?
to give the Republic the best jedi
If you were to actually play the game instead of playing C&C and pretending you know what you are talking about, THE REPUBLIC HAS THE BEST JEDI ALREADY!!!
a small part of my vision for SW:GB2
I pray that you won't get into any more details about this grand vision of yours. I can probably assume that the only civ would be the republic (since they all came from on place right, and you love the republic so much that everyone will be merged together into them) and they would have three units: the jedi master, the gunship, and a trooper/mech/air/heavy unit that fills every role so that you dont have to GROUP YOUR UNITS!!!

Darth Windu
09-13-2002, 06:09 AM
sithmaster - do you bother reading comments before replying to them? I have already said that ALL CIVS WOULD GET GENERIC JEDI, SO THEN THE REPUBLIC WOULD GET MASTER'S TO HAVE THE BEST JEDI!!!!!!!!!!!

Kryllith
09-13-2002, 09:49 AM
On the overall, yes, I was being sarcastic. I actually thought of snipers as a special unit a month or two ago when people were talking about making normal infantry and repeater infantry two seperate units. My original idea would be to give them better line-of-sight and range (scopes) and better damage (precision shots) but slower firing (comparably to the bounties or possibily regular troopers since they need a little time to line up their shots) and less armour (since they'd be concerned with stealth). I wouldn't really consider moving through the forest/climbing cliffs as an option in swgb, but who knows how swgb2 might work. :)

Might be nice, but it tends to make the sight-beyond-sight power of the Republic relatively useless and would result in snipers having a range around assault mech, which may or may not have it's own problems especially since they'd be outdistancing the strike mechs and possibly turrets. Of course they move slower and would be primarily anti-small target (troopers/workers/medics/bounty and possibly jedi, though not to the degree of bounties) so it might not be such a big problem.

Kryllith

Teabag
09-13-2002, 10:20 AM
I got an idea for a unique unit for a new civ. How about they add the Mon Cal in GB2 (i hope they keep all existing civs) and give them a unique unit that was an amphibious mech. You know, it would be a real tough mech; kina like an assault mech but this one could cross rivers and water. You wouldn't be able to load up units into this mech though or it would defeat the purprose of a transport boat.

They should also add Bothans as a civ. Their unique unit would be an infantry unit that could cloak itself and stay cloaked while it attacked.

simwiz2
09-13-2002, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
I pray that you won't get into any more details about this grand vision of yours. I can probably assume that the only civ would be the republic (since they all came from on place right, and you love the republic so much that everyone will be merged together into them) and they would have three units: the jedi master, the gunship, and a trooper/mech/air/heavy unit that fills every role so that you dont have to GROUP YOUR UNITS!!!

:lol: :lol:

These threads are some of the funniest I have seen. In fact, this forum wouldn't be nearly as fun without morons like Windu to call stupid, dumb, n00b, and other things that will lower his self esteem. :D

simwiz2
09-13-2002, 03:28 PM
Idiot, are you still missing his (and my) point?

Originally posted by Darth Windu
THE REPUBLIC WOULD GET MASTER'S TO HAVE THE BEST JEDI!!!!!!!!!!!

Windu, let's review.

You say: The reps would get the best jedi by having masters as a UU.

Me and Sith say: They DO have the best jedi, why make it a UU?

You say: They would have masters as a UU to get the best Jedi!!!!

I give up. There is just no talking to that child. Windu, I only have one suggestion right now. Reread the last 10-15 posts on this thread a few times, and see for yourself how stupid you sound.

Kryllith
09-13-2002, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Teabag
I got an idea for a unique unit for a new civ. How about they add the Mon Cal in GB2 (i hope they keep all existing civs) and give them a unique unit that was an amphibious mech. You know, it would be a real tough mech; kina like an assault mech but this one could cross rivers and water. You wouldn't be able to load up units into this mech though or it would defeat the purprose of a transport boat.
I don't have a problem with the idea except for the obvious complaint (which is already made to some extent about the Gungans) that if you ended up with in a random map without water then you're pretty much sunk (or not sunk, given the lack of water). Basically you'd lose a unit. Now if they gave Mon Cal an assault mech with a special power/upgrade to move across water, that might work. It would still lose its water advantage on non-water maps, but at least it would still be usable.

Kryllith

joesdomain
09-14-2002, 01:53 AM
That sounds like a good idea! IThe ability to make repeater troopers and armored troopers at the same time. That goes back to getting rid of tech levels and having all the units avaiable to you at the beginning of the game. I want the new unique unit of the rebels to be a B-wing, Tie Advanced for Empire, Wookie Jedi (similar to having a Wookie Bounty Hunter), Naboo Cruiser for Naboo, a second submersiable ship for the Gungans, Trade Federation Battleship for Trade Federation, Geonosians with sonic blaster and Republic Assualt Ship for Republic.
If you wanted a 2nd Unique Unit then here are my units for that:
Naboo- (Naboo Yacht)
Wookie-? Not sure on this one
Rebels-Changing Troopers for different environments- (e.g. snowtroopers for tundra, snow, endor troopers for forest, wooded environments, yavin 4 troopers for savannah and flats)
Empire- Imperial Lamda Class Shuttle that lands on landing platform and ground, carrys 10 troopers, and also has folding wing capability
Confederacy- (Anti-air mobile is the only one that fires ground missles at ground opponents?
Republic-Artillery can shoot at aircraft

Sithmaster_821
09-14-2002, 07:41 AM
Joe, i cant seem to follow your logic on that one.

Amphibious mech->troopers trainig at the same time->no tech levels->various unique units and with nothing to ease the transition (just being picky ignore me if you want to).

lukeiamyourdad
09-14-2002, 10:55 AM
The Lambda shuttle should not carry 10 troopers if the air transport only carries 5...A mech who can cross water. That's a very nice idea! To add something, HEAVY ARTILLERY FOR THE REPUBLIC!!!!!!!!! And stronger....and can shoot aircraft....

Teabag
09-16-2002, 02:49 PM
Krylith it would be an amphibious mech...that means it can move across water and land too. It would be good for situations where people block off those shallow parts of water. These mechs could just go around, but once again, you shouldn't be able to load up troops in it or people who use the Mon Cal civ would no longer produce transport boats.

Kryllith
09-16-2002, 04:46 PM
My bad; I misread it and was thinking of a water-only assault. Makes me kinda wonder if mechs that can hover (TF) would be able to go over water. Probably not since they're most likely designed to push of the solidity of rock/dirt. But yeah, if they had a mech design like a hovercraft/swampbuggy then it would probably work quite well.

Kryllith

KoL ShadowJedi
09-16-2002, 05:11 PM
STAPS and AAT's shud be able to go over water, Joe do u find u repeat u repeat most of your replies... uve said ur unique units like 10 times - mind u all in different topics

Crazy_dog no.3
09-16-2002, 05:25 PM
They should all really be able to go through water, but they don't cos' of the Gangun's balancing issues.

Darth Windu
09-18-2002, 06:14 AM
Simwiz - with the jedi, for SW:GB2, this is how it would go

-all civs get generic jedi knight
-to have the most powerful jedi, the Republic would get Masters as a UU

Now do you understand?

simwiz2
09-18-2002, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Simwiz - with the jedi, for SW:GB2, this is how it would go

-(1) all civs get generic jedi knight
-(2) to have the most powerful jedi, the Republic would get Masters as a UU

(3) Now do you understand?

1 - As for the generic knight, we don't even know if they will use a generic unit set for a sequel. But I think it is safe to say that at least the Rebels, Empire, and Republic will get some kind of Jedi or Sith Master.

2 - LOL!!! You already said that several times! And I said they do already have the best jedi... and you go and say they need the UU to get the best jedi. You aren't too bright are you? Go back, read my previous post on this thread, and then seriously reconsider your post.

3 - I have understood your inane plan since you first suggested it. The only thing I don't understand is WHY that will help gameplay. I am also baffled at how you missed the point of my last post entirely.

I will say it again: THE REPUBLIC ALREADY HAS THE BEST JEDI!! Now do you understand?

Darth Windu
09-19-2002, 06:27 AM
Simwiz - i really do not know how you are failing to understand this. The idea goes that, for SW:GB2-

1. Every civ gets the same jedi. No differences at all (ie gungan jedi as good as rebel and naboo jedi). Obviously, this means that no-one's jedi will be stronger than anyone else's.

2. As a result of 1, the Republic would recieve Jedi Master's as a UU in order to have the best jedi in the game.

Now do you get it?

simwiz2
09-19-2002, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Simwiz - i really do not know how you are failing to understand this. The idea goes that, for SW:GB2-

1. Every civ gets the same jedi. No differences at all (ie gungan jedi as good as rebel and naboo jedi). Obviously, this means that no-one's jedi will be stronger than anyone else's.

2. As a result of 1, the Republic would recieve Jedi Master's as a UU in order to have the best jedi in the game.

Now do you get it?

1 - That is just plain stupid. GB2 may use unique sets, in which case probably none of the civs' Jedi will be exactly the same. And what is the point of changing the way that the republic gets the best Jedi? The net result is almost the same. Remember, you need to prove this is a good idea, no one else needs to prove it is bad.

2 - IMO, the current way the republic gets the best jedi - unique techs, all jedi techs, etc. works much better than making the master a UU. Once again: WHY should it be changed?

Now do you get this: the burden of proof is on you, and so far you have supplied no reason why making masters a UU is better than the current method of giving the Republic all Jedi techs and unique Jedi techs. Why is it better than, if GB2 uses unique sets, just giving them better jedi techs and unit stats?

lukeiamyourdad
09-20-2002, 09:58 AM
If you give the republic the master, were would be it's new downside besides not making bounties? Wow no bounties, that's the end of the world. it should have even more weak mechs or aircrafts without shields.

simwiz2
09-20-2002, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
it should have even more weak mechs or aircrafts without shields.

No shields for aircraft? I bet Windu would change his mind about his idea pretty quick, since all he really wants to do is overpower the Republic.

Windu's dreamgame:
Republic: 10 UU's, strengths are Mechs, Troops, Air, Jedi, and Heavy Weapons.
All the rest: 0 UU's, weaknesses are Mechs, Troops, Air, Jedi, and Heavy Weapons.

Sithmaster_821
09-20-2002, 07:47 PM
posted somewhere on these forums by me
windu are you one of those people who just repeat what you say but louder when other people dont understand/disagree?
Thank you, you've answered this question. If you can explain why you want to fix something that is not broken, using words and common sense, please do so. Remember, this is a public forum, so other people can see your posts.

lukeiamyourdad
09-21-2002, 09:08 PM
I guess some people can't seem to understand what other people are trying to say....

Darth Windu
09-22-2002, 12:32 AM
Ok, the idea goes like this-

When it comes to jedi, they all work for the Galactic Republic (except for hero units), and thus the Republic should have the strongest jedi.

In the game, as the idea of jedi is 'calling for help', all of the jedi produced should be the same, as they would all be coming from the same place with no favouritism.

As a result of this, no-one's jedi would be stronger than anyone else's, yet the Republic shou;ld have the strongest jedi.
Solution - give the Republic Jedi Master's as a UU.

Balancing would not be too difficult, and the main reasons for this would be to have greater realism; a larger focus on each civ's strength's and weaknesses, not jedi; to give the Republic the strongest jedi; to have less micromanagement (ie researching upgrades)

simwiz2
09-22-2002, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
In the game, as the idea of jedi is 'calling for help', all of the jedi produced should be the same, as they would all be coming from the same place with no favouritism.

As a result of this, no-one's jedi would be stronger than anyone else's, yet the Republic shou;ld have the strongest jedi.
Solution - give the Republic Jedi Master's as a UU.


Your first and second paragraphs contradict each other. You say all Jedi should all be the same, no favoritism - which I can partly understand for realism, but NEVER for gameplay. Then you say the Republic should be "favored" by having the strongest jedi unit - the master as a UU. But if all the Jedi are the same as you are arguing, then anyone could get masters.

Darth Windu
09-22-2002, 02:50 AM
Think of the Jedi Knight's as standard Strike Mech's and the Jedi Master as the Destroyer Droid.

One of the strong points of the Republic is, and had always been, jedi. What im saying is that all jedi should be equal, while the Master should be a republic UU in order to emphasise the Republic's reliance on jedi.

As for having jedi knights all the same, other parts of the previously jedi-strong civ's (for example, rebels and naboo) would be strengthened in order to make up for the loss of jedi strength.

Sithmaster_821
09-22-2002, 02:22 PM
When it comes to jedi, they all work for the Galactic Republic (except for hero units), and thus the Republic should have the strongest jedi.
The jedi are their own group and they serve, without favoritism, to whom ever requires their service. Since the republic is overbearing in the galaxy and serve as a symbol of peace, they are usually called upon in the name of the republic. The jedi do what they think is right, and what they think is right usually corresponds with the republics agenda. The jedi would gladly lend a master to the wookies or the gungans, but civs that serve in the name of justice are more likely to get jedi assistance

Darth Windu
09-24-2002, 10:18 AM
Exactly sithmaster. The jedi would send out a knight to whomever needed them without favouritism, hence the idea of all jedi being equal.

However if you looked at the databank, you would see that the jedi report to the Republic government, kinda like UN peacekeepers. Also, jedi fought as part of the Republic army at the end of ep2. Not the naboo army, not the wookie army, but as part of the republic army.

Kryllith
09-24-2002, 01:23 PM
This begs the question: what about the Rebels? If we're going to follow canon to the point that the Jedi are all out on loan from the Republic then how about following the time line? The Rebels would be sunk since the Jedi would have been purged. The Empire could still be strong because of Dark Jedi, but the Rebels wouldn't work with them...

Kryllith

Crazy_dog no.3
09-24-2002, 03:10 PM
Realisticallt speaking, there is NO WAY Vader, even with help from bounty hunters and Dark Jedi, could have eliminated all of them. There must have been a few hundred Jedi on the Rebel's side, given the stats. No matter what the movies or novels say.

Darth Windu
09-25-2002, 04:05 AM
Assume that the Rebels exist at the same time as the Republic.

Crazy_dog no.3
09-25-2002, 12:32 PM
What do u mean?

Kryllith
09-25-2002, 01:12 PM
Bah, I hate it when the sending has problems and I end up with 2 messages. Anyway, see the next one.

Kryllith
09-25-2002, 01:17 PM
He's refering to my question about having canon of civilizations but not canon of time. Still and all, if there were so many Jedi on the Rebel's side, then why would Luke be their only hope? Surely a few hundred Jedi would have posed more of a threat than a single half-trained one. For that matter, if the Rebellion is massing such a large attack against the 2nd Death Star then the Jedi would have been prominent don't you think? I supposed they could have been acting as pilots... More likely though, any Jedi that did manage to avoid being purged would be too busy hiding to aid the Rebellion. Or if they were, it would be behind the scenes and not on the battlefield, so they wouldn't be present in Battlegrounds anyway.

Kryllith

Crazy_dog no.3
09-25-2002, 02:04 PM
Because the Jedi were not in a very good state, and Luke was the highest-ranking and most powerful.

Also, Luke would have had a bigger influence, like bieng Vader's son.

Crazy_dog no.3
09-25-2002, 02:04 PM
Because the Jedi were not in a very good state, and Luke was the highest-ranking and most powerful.

Kryllith
09-25-2002, 03:04 PM
I can see Luke having the Vader influence, but I'm not sure about the others. Granted he may have the most raw power being Vader's son, but he'd be untrained while most of the others would probably have started their training before he was born and would be far more advanced.

Rankwise I'd imagine about the same. If we're talking about Jedi who have been working with the Rebellion for years, some perhaps close to two decades then they'd probably be much higher ranked than a relative newcomer (even if he blew up the Death Star). Maybe in the time of RotJ when Luke's been in the Rebellion for 5 years or so, but what about the earlier movies? (I've no idea what his rank actually is since it doesn't seem to be mention ever in the movies--other than possibly "Jedi Knight").

As for their state of being. Ok, I'll accept that fact that a number of them probably wouldn't be in a very good state, either because of age, or the toils of the war, or whatever. But if they're in the state where they wouldn't be fighting then they'd have no place on the battlefield in Battlegrounds anyway.

lukeiamyourdad
09-25-2002, 04:49 PM
in the rebel campaign in swgb you can see echuu shen jon....
krillith is right, there might be more jedis or even hidden jedis. maybe they were pilots or soldiers and never told anyone that they were jedis.

Sithmaster_821
09-25-2002, 08:51 PM
Windu, once again you try to use your Nick News knowledge on the forums. UN peacekeepers are trrops from various countries (usually US or britain) who go to troubled nations as an independent army on the behalf of an independent organization. Jedi are an independent group that, using their own people, send jedi to troubled planets to help one side that they think is being unfairly treated. Big difference.

Since the Republic was everywhere and was overbearing on the order, they had access to more jedi more frequently, which is what current bonuses uphold. Everyine had equal shots at being able to request masters or padawans, the republic just gave more of those said requests. And thats only the realistic issues with your idea. Gameplay issues, which have greater weight than realistic ones, state that your idea, like all of your others, would completely tip the game to the republic's side. You are to the republic what joesdomain is to the empire.

Crazy_dog no.3
09-26-2002, 12:28 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself.:)

lukeiamyourdad
09-26-2002, 05:15 PM
Mace Windu said ''We are keepers of the peace, not soldiers''

simwiz2
09-26-2002, 08:25 PM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
You are to the republic what joesdomain is to the empire.

Maybe they are the same person, and Windu/Joe wants 2 overpowered civs so that one of them can be his ally and he can be the other one. :)

Darth Windu
09-27-2002, 12:21 AM
sithmaster - UN peacekeepers come from anywhere around the globe, not necessarily the US and UK. Having said that the modern UN and the Republic are very similar. (ie senate = general assembly, jedi = peacekeepers etc)

I would also like to point out that at the start of Episode 1 the little message thing states that the 'Chancellor has secretly dispatched two jedi knights' not the jedi council. Also, at the star wars databank it states that-

"As the Galactic Republic throve and grew over the centuries, the Jedi came to serve it as guardians of peace and justice"

"It is from the ranks of the Jedi Masters that the High Council is chosen, which is the main interface between the Jedi and the government of the Republic."

"In the final era of the Republic, the Jedi Knights operated out of the Judicial Department, under the office of Supreme Chancellor"

Teabag
09-27-2002, 12:29 PM
Hey here's another idea for a unique unit. The Mon Cal would have a second unique units besides the amphibious mech idea. The amphibious mech would give them a unique unit on maps where there was no water, but on maps where they could build a shipyard, the Mon Cal should have a stealth cruiser. It would work just like the bongo submarine only it would be a cruiser.

Teabag
09-27-2002, 12:32 PM
Oh and here's another idea; how bout adding the Twi'Lek as a civ. I dont have any ideas yet about civ specialties or unique units but im sure they would have lots of colorful and bizzare structures like the gungans and would be a nice break from the plain buildings of the rebs, republic, wookies, and imps.

Sithmaster_821
09-27-2002, 05:12 PM
Windu, the jedi order goes on no matter who the hell rules the galaxy. The chancellor dispatched the two jedi as a favor not an order. And the UN is so different from the republic, that it makes your confed/nato comparison look smart. I guess some people just think they know everything. And Windu, yes there are other countries in the UN, but the UK and the US do most of the fighting/peacekeeping.

Darth Windu
09-28-2002, 01:22 AM
Well actually the Republic (and then Empire) is based on Rome, but it is rather close to the UN. Anyway did you not read anything that i posted? The offical star wars databank says that the Jedi report to the Republic!

pbguy1211
09-28-2002, 01:46 AM
What a dink...

Crazy_dog no.3
09-28-2002, 05:57 AM
Dark Jedi don't report to Republic.
The Jedi report to the Republic but only so long as they believe in it's cause. I mean, when did u see Yoda bieng a trustworthy Imperial citizen. Empire and Republic are basically the same thing. The Wookiees are part of the Republic so they get Jedi. As are Naboo, if not more so. Ganguns, after they joined the Republic, would have had a few Jedi sent to assist them.

Rebels get Jedi becuase the Jedi don't believ in the Empire/Rep.'s cuase any more.

Arthur2
10-17-2002, 04:57 AM
I think they should remove gungans from the game
cause they are substand in terms of technology
it's dumb to add aircrafts to this race...u know, just to stuff something in to make the game look better
i would rather see a game with more diversity between races than to see ten billion races with basically the same units

I don't think they even need the idea of unique units
they can just make the races different from each other...
for example the imperial fighters only stay with the mother ships (star destroyer, airbase or death star?)
so..maybe they can limit the flight time for imperial fighters...that way Rebels can have REAL advantage in the air cauz the empire needs to move the star destroyers around before they can launch air strikes.....

they should do something that corresponds to the movie
don't make all the race the same....

Crazy_dog no.3
10-17-2002, 01:16 PM
In AotC if u look closely u will see the Gangun's air (also look up aitha or something like that in the Official SW Databank (http://www.starwars.com/databank) )



If the limit the flight time for Imp fighters then:
a) Severe unbalance ( as in worse for them) on the Imp's side.
b) Too much micromanagement


It's also very hard for newbs to play a game were every race is different.

Kryllith
10-19-2002, 01:59 AM
Besides, the TIE fighters on GB are flying on a relatively small area anyway. The short-range fighter mentioned in the quote still had quite a sizable range when you consider how far away from the Death Star it was when the Falcon came across it. They may not be designed for interplanetary travel, but they can certain fly around a planet without problems.

Kryllith

Darth Windu
10-19-2002, 02:34 AM
In respect to the Jedi Master issue-

I have already posted conclusive evidence that the Jedi worked under the authority of the Republic, at least during the events of Ep1-3. Also, i dont think there is any debate as regarding that the Republic should have the most powerful jedi.

Having said that, the different civ's UU's would be-
- Naboo = Royal Crusader
- Wookies = Berserker
- Empire = Imperial Guard
- Republic = Jedi Master
- Gungans = Amphibious Trooper
- Trade Federation = Grapple Droid
- Confederacy = Geonosian Warrior

Of course there would also be changes to the Jedi Knight, which would be more powerful and would have exactly the same specs for every civ.

lukeiamyourdad
10-19-2002, 12:59 PM
God Windu what do we have to say to get it through your tick skull!

THE REPUBLIC ALREADY HAS THE BEST JEDIS!

If they want to add more hp or armor or attack to them fine by me! but a UU is innacceptable!

Sithmaster_821
10-19-2002, 01:32 PM
Using unique unit sets, every unit (except maybe jedi) would be unique.

And, in respect to the whole jedi issue, read Albert Einstein's quote in my sig.

simwiz2
10-19-2002, 01:47 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
In respect to the Jedi Master issue-

(1) I have already posted conclusive evidence that the Jedi worked under the authority of the Republic, at least during the events of Ep1-3. (2) Also, i dont think there is any debate as regarding that the Republic should have the most powerful jedi.

(3) Having said that, the different civ's UU's would be-
- Naboo = Royal Crusader
- Wookies = Berserker
- Empire = Imperial Guard
- Republic = Jedi Master
- Gungans = Amphibious Trooper
- Trade Federation = Grapple Droid
- Confederacy = Geonosian Warrior

(4) Of course there would also be changes to the Jedi Knight, which would be more powerful and would have exactly the same specs for every civ.

1 - And I have conclusive evidence that X-Wings were used in the movies exclusively by the Rebels! Adv fighters should be a Rebel UU! Rebels should have the best Air! Their current UU's aren't enough! I want a UU!!! :rolleyes:

2 - They already do, let's not get into that argument again.

3 - If GB2 uses unique sets then almost all units will be a UU! And you only want one UU per civ? Lame. All the civs would play the same. Besides, what about your precious Gunship?

4 - Which, of course, would be boring. Imagine if they did that for every unit - all civs have the EXACT SAME strengths in each unit - except that each civ has ONE unit that they EXCEL at. What a boring game that would be.

Arthur2
10-19-2002, 02:04 PM
I would go with the unique sets idea
make each civ different from each other...
in this version of SWGB, the rebel air is strong, but then it's still insufficient to really launch a large siege based only on air units... (possible , but not likely)

Darth Windu
10-20-2002, 12:20 AM
luke - im talking about SW:GB2, so how can the republic have the strongest jedi in SW:GB2 if it doesnt exist yet???????????

lukeiamyourdad
10-20-2002, 11:32 AM
If there is a SWGB 2 then the republic will also have the best jedi and it would be unfair for everyone else not to have jedi masters

simwiz2
10-20-2002, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
luke - im talking about SW:GB2, so how can the republic have the strongest jedi in SW:GB2 if it doesnt exist yet???????????

How the hell do you think they will have the strongest jedi!??!??!?? THE SAME WAY THEY DO NOW!!! Bonuses, techs, etc! NOT A DAMN UU!!!

Honestly, Windu, think a bit before you post.

lukeiamyourdad
10-20-2002, 03:50 PM
I guess he doesn't really re-read the other posts before posting.

Sithmaster_821
10-20-2002, 06:56 PM
He can read?:)

Honestly it doesnt seem so, on here, on the gunship thred, and on all those other less popular "new unit" threads.

Darth Windu
10-21-2002, 02:02 AM
This is the idea for jedi-
EVERYONE WILL GET THE SAME JEDI!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hence, for the Republic to have the most powerful jedi, they would get the Master as a UU!

Of course the Knight ad Master would be different to what they are in SW:GB, due to the altered use of them.

NOW do you understand the idea?

sithmaster - why add more micromanagement and tech levels when you can add a UU? It is a lot easier and increases the amount of time a player can spend on combat and tactics instead of micromanaging their base.

Arthur2
10-21-2002, 04:35 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
This is the idea for jedi-
EVERYONE WILL GET THE SAME JEDI!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hence, for the Republic to have the most powerful jedi, they would get the Master as a UU!

Of course the Knight ad Master would be different to what they are in SW:GB, due to the altered use of them.

NOW do you understand the idea?

sithmaster - why add more micromanagement and tech levels when you can add a UU? It is a lot easier and increases the amount of time a player can spend on combat and tactics instead of micromanaging their base.



uh, didn't u read our replies?
NO UNIQUE UNITS, use unique sets instead
meaning that all units will be unique...
that way we get more variation and it suits the story better....rebel don't have that much mech crap like the empire..
Micromanagement is the dumbest idea...
dude, if u want micromanagement, u can go play ur ghetto warcraft 3...

in addition to ur micromanagement concern....
as I have suggested, the heroes in SWGB 2 should be like EE heroes, the warrior heroes gives tactical assistance (micromanagement) , and strategist (dun think u guys want this) gives strategic assistance... (well shouldn't have strategists like this, cause WE are the strategists, this will ruin the fun)

when we play this game, we should be figuring out the strategy
as it titles, RTS, Real Time STRATEGY
not Tactics.....I have to admit that tactics is important, but then it's not first priority, if there are two battles fighting at the same time u'd be screwed...that's why i think tactical heroes would be helpful.

(in EE, tactical/warrior heroes will autometically arrange ur army into best attack position, and it will also command ur armies to destroy the most menacing buildings/units first....u know, just tactical stuff...really really helpful, of course u can overwrite the heroes' command, the heroes willl command ur army when ur troops are encountering enemy forces...and u didn't give specific commands to ur trooops)

if u are not convinced
go try EE, the heroes in EE are just cool
u only need to do the strategic part, the heroes will assist u on the battlefield

Arthur2
10-21-2002, 06:01 AM
strategy is a plan that benefits the war in general
tactic is a plan that benefits a single battle

big difference...

this is why i don't like Warcraft
TOO MUCH micromanagement in battles
and the winning and losing is relied on one battle or just several...
and this is why i said Warcraft is more like a RPG than a RTS game
when u play RTS game, u are looking at the winning the war, not winning a battle...

when u play a game liike GB
u just order ur army to attack, and do some minor adjustments to formations and attack sequences...that's all
normally the AI takes care of the details
and like i mentioned before
let the heroes do the tactical details....not u
u got more things to take care of than just trying to make ur archmage cast blizzard and making ur paladin revive at the same time...that's boring

Crazy_dog no.3
10-21-2002, 01:08 PM
Nah I say use the RoN (http://ron.heavengames.com) engine.

I don't know about hereoes, but u can build Generals, which enhance your troops in battle.

simwiz2
10-21-2002, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
This is the idea for jedi-
(1) EVERYONE WILL GET THE SAME JEDI!!!!!!!!!!!!

(2) Hence, for the Republic to have the most powerful jedi, they would get the Master as a UU!

(3) Of course the Knight ad Master would be different to what they are in SW:GB, due to the altered use of them.

(4) NOW do you understand the idea?

(5) sithmaster - why add more micromanagement and tech levels when you can add a UU? It is a lot easier and increases the amount of time a player can spend on combat and tactics instead of micromanaging their base.

1 - Give one good gameplay reason to do this.

2 - This is only true if you can provide a good gameplay reason for 1.

3 - I would hope that in a new game everything would be a bit different to provide replayability. But differences in units does not mean overpower the Republic.

4 - I still do not understand WHY this is a good idea at all, and as the creator of the idea it is your job to back up the idea with some gameplay reasons for it, and make me understand why the idea is so good. The burden of proof is on you, and you need to do better than "well it was like this in the movies" or "the civilopedia says jedi report to the republic", etc. None of that matters at all. GAMEPLAY reasons, Windu.

5 - Sounds like you want a clickfest. No, no techs, too much micro, and no villies either, too much micro, no econ, let's just each start with some units, right click on the enemy's units, and slug it out. Except I will win because I am the Republic and I get my masters while they have knights. :rolleyes:

WHY ADD A UU WHEN YOU CAN USE THE TRIED-AND-TRUE METHOD OF BONUSES, TECHS, ETC. Not only will this method be more readily accepted, it allows for more diversity. With your UU idea everyone except the Republic will have the same Jedi. BOOORING! If everyone has different Jedi it makes for a much more fun game.

lukeiamyourdad
10-21-2002, 06:03 PM
You're right simwiz, listen to him windu.

The republic jedi, in order not to overpower them, should have some bonus, not a total UU!

Darth Windu
10-22-2002, 07:15 AM
simwiz - i didnt ask if you thought it was a good idea, only if you understood the idea. As for the jedi the reason behind the idea is that
- they are sent where needed, no favouritism
- it would shift a greater focus on a particular civ's strength's and weaknesses

lukeiamyourdad
10-22-2002, 05:20 PM
If there is no favouritism than why should the republic get the masters?

simwiz2
10-22-2002, 05:33 PM
Because if they didn't have their UU there wouldn't be an overpowered civ for Windu to beat the AI with.


Windu-

- (1) they are sent where needed, no favouritism
- (2) it would shift a greater focus on a particular civ's strength's and weaknesses

1 - How does this have anything to do with gameplay? This is simply your version of realism.

2 - You'll have to explain this one a bit more clearly. Making a certain unit identical to all but one civ focuses on a civ's strengths and weaknesses in the game how? Unless you are talking about your pseudo-realism again. If you are you need to remember that the game cannot be exactly like the movies; such a game would likely lose all its fun.

You have STILL not shown a single gameplay reason to make such a change.

I will say again that I have understood the idea since the day you were posting on lucasforums and the foolish notion to overpower the republic by giving them Jedi Masters as a UU popped into your head.

lukeiamyourdad
10-22-2002, 05:36 PM
Windu- Have you ever tried to favour another civ than the republic?

Sithmaster_821
10-22-2002, 05:50 PM
- they are sent where needed, no favouritism
If there was no favortism, why is the republic the only one who gets access to masters. Does the jedi council send them illegally via jedi smugglers.
it would shift a greater focus on a particular civ's strength's and weaknesses
No all it would do is give them another unit to play with, and, actually, the republic would probably use less knights than everyone else cause they got masters. however, if the republic were to get bonuses for ther jedi, i would bet that they would devote more of their resources towards jedi, thus they would feild more jedi than anyone else, which is an interpretation of the movies that we both agreed on.

lukeiamyourdad
10-22-2002, 05:53 PM
however, if the republic were to get bonuses for ther jedi, i would bet that they would devote more of their resources towards jedi, thus they would feild more jedi than anyone else, which is an interpretation of the movies that we both agreed on.

It'S a good Idea but Windu seems not to like it.

Darth Windu
10-23-2002, 07:43 AM
simwiz - what i mean, is that each civ would have exactly the same jedi, and hence they would all be as powerful as each other.

Because of this, there would be a greater emphasis on each particular civ's strengths and weaknesses, as jedi wouldnt be able to be regarded as a strength or weakness.

simwiz2
10-23-2002, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
simwiz - what i mean, is that each civ would have exactly the same jedi, and hence they would all be as powerful as each other.

Because of this, there would be a greater emphasis on each particular civ's strengths and weaknesses, as jedi wouldnt be able to be regarded as a strength or weakness.

Okay, as I suspected it was your psuedo-realism. This is not a GAMEPLAY reason, so as far as I am concerned you have still not posted any good reasons to back up your idea.

Sithmaster_821
10-23-2002, 08:02 PM
Windu, if you gave everybody jedi masters, then the same holds true.

Darth Windu
10-25-2002, 04:00 AM
True, but then the Republi'c jedi would be the same as everyone else's, they would need something to give them better jedi, hence the master UU idea.

simwiz2
10-25-2002, 04:16 PM
Windu, do you realize that you keep contradicting yourself? You want no favoritism on Jedi, yet you want to favor the republic; you want balance, yet you want an AT-AT-like air unit Gunship for the Republic only.

I know you have an obsession with the Republic and want to win by being the only one to play them when they are overpowered, but that will never work. If they are overpowered everyone will play them. And you will lose repeatedly like you probably do now.

Sithmaster_821
10-25-2002, 05:44 PM
True, but then the Republi'c jedi would be the same as everyone else's, they would need something to give them better jedi, hence the master UU idea.
Windu, im trying to speak nice to you but it is difficult when you are stupid. I understand you have a UU fetish, we all have problems, but a UU doesnt make the Republic's jedi any better, it just gives them another unit to use. Does the Geonosian Warrior make the Confeds good in the air or does the Dark Trooper enhance the empire's trooper's combat ability. No. They would need something to give them better jedi, hence the little thing called CIV BONUSES!!!