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View Full Version : TOTALLY innapropriate, KMan


BradFu
08-06-2002, 12:53 AM
EDIT - Please see http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73616 before reading this thread, as this is a continuation of that thread.

------------------------------------------------------

You dont' close threads simply because they criticize you, especially when that criticism is totally warranted.

Not only did you not apologize for your favoritism, you're now denying it.

"And I'm the one who thinks that Kinja's ideas are better than others posting for mod requests. That's more than enough reason for me not to close this."

Followed later, in the same thread by:

"This is final. I was not picking favorites, and I was not closing peoples threads because I did not like them. "

Go look up Favoritism in the dictionary, because you clearly don't understand what it means.

Everyone is entitled to mistakes, but you are compounding yours by denying them, and trying to keep people from discussing it.

KMan
08-06-2002, 01:02 AM
Nah, I closed it because it WASN'T a modeling related post

Twisted Vertex
08-06-2002, 01:02 AM
ok...theoritically the idea of "free speech" doesn't exist here. To keep people in line, and keeping manners and conduct in check you have to implament rules and regulations. Now there will always be people, WHO get the royalty treatment wether you like it or not, its just the way of life.

Remmeber its not What you know, But who you know. so i guess what i am saying is, YES, kman did something wrong, but its a fact of life, and **** goes on.

As far as closing the thread, he's the moderator, and remmeber FREE SPEECH doesn't exist here.

BradFu
08-06-2002, 01:10 AM
It's not a modelling related thread, but it's a Modelling Forum related thread. If someone raises concerns about the way the forum is being run, closing the thread is NOT what you do. Anyone with real moderating skills knows this. Even if you're not trying to keep people from discussing it, you're giving the impression that that is what you're doing. As a moderator, you should understand that you not only can't do innapropriate things, you can't have the appearance of doing innappropriate things. If you had said "You're right, I shouldn't have allowed that, it was favoritism" and THEN closed the thread, you'd get no complaints from me. But if you can't admit to your mistakes then you need to think about whether you should continue to be a moderator here.

You keep deleting threads, I'll keep posting them until you either admit you're wrong, or you are removed by JKII.net/LucasForums staff. If you want me banned, you'll have to go to them anyway, and I don't think they will appreciate what you're doing.

I realize this thread is disruptive, and for that I apologize to the people who come here to discuss modelling, but while this problem exists, it makes it difficult to continue as a normal community anyway.

cROsIs**
08-06-2002, 01:12 AM
Not gonna read it brad, your points are so true.

KMan
08-06-2002, 01:18 AM
If you realized that this was disruptive then why did you continue posting? Just so you could prove that you are right? Well, I don't have to admit to anything, but to prove that I am the better man, and to get you off of my back, I will say that I was wrong. I was playing favorites. Kinja is my ultimatest favoritest person in the whole wide world. Golly! :rolleyes:

There, I said it. Now why don't you go do something that is actually productive.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 01:18 AM
Man this forum has spiraled down to nothing. All it is now is just one big arena for you guys. :(
*sigh*

*Our special broadcast today is Kman vs. Forum Community!Only the strongest shall survive! Who do you think will win? Kman or the Community? PLACE YOUR BETS NOW BEFORE TIMES OUT!*

*In left hand corner, along with his moderating skillz, it's Kman@polycount! And the right hand corner, with their angry expressions and several threads ready to strike, it's the Community!*

*LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLE!!!!!!*

BradFu
08-06-2002, 01:21 AM
This isn't about me being right. This is about you being wrong. You honestly don't beleive you were wrong about the favoritism, and you don't beleive you're wrong about closing threads that criticize you. Thus the threads will continue. You can't rule this forum with an iron fist just because someone made the mistake of making you a moderator.

An insincere apology isn't going to cut it. You can't just crap on this community and go about your business.

Twisted Vertex
08-06-2002, 01:23 AM
.......do i have time to run to the corner store and get some pop-corn and cofee. Hmmmm this is going to get good.


I'll just watch.................




just my two euros

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 01:25 AM
*And the match is on! Kman waits for a preferable manuver to strike while Bradfu has made the communities move on their behalf by sticking it to kman! Will this hold? Only time shall tell!*

*KEEP THOSE BETS COMING!!!* :D

Darth Exar Kun
08-06-2002, 01:41 AM
i need to get this in before the all frickin power fricking full k fricking man closes this thread on one of his power trips







Kman gives more respect to the better modelers than he does to the new comers and frequent posters he vallues kinja and his crew more than those at the return of the jedi mod he is unfair and needs to be impeached before he closes this forum he let the yoda thread go on for weeks with no udate on any other thread he would have closed it in a heart bbeat in other words





IMPEACH KMAN IMPEACH HIM SOON HE CLOSES YOUR THREAD START A NEW ON JUST REVOLT AGAINST HIM RIGHT ON BRADFU

editormg
08-06-2002, 01:46 AM
I'm gonna sit on the fence until round 5. Hey mushashi grab some popcorn for me while you're out. Extra butter please.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 01:48 AM
Yeah I think I the announcer of this soon-to-come match will sit this one out as well. Good idea.

Now where's that damn popcorn?! :D

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 01:51 AM
ANNOUNCER SPEAKING:

*Kman has still not made his move. It's a wonder what his next move shall be. It probably will take time from the looks of it*

*We'll be right back after these messages* :D

Lime-Light
08-06-2002, 01:52 AM
.........who gives a ****?

This is a modeling forum, not bitch about kman forum. Anyone who feels wronged is certianly allowed to post thier projects on other forums.

editormg
08-06-2002, 01:55 AM
my concession stand is now open for business here:

http://www.driveintheater.com/concessiondance.htm

Popcorn is 4 bucks for small bag anyone got the munchies?

LOL:p

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 01:56 AM
.........who gives a ****?

My thoughts exactly. ;)

*Well kman is taking a time out so we're gonna go to another commercial people. And keep those bets coming!! :D *

BradFu
08-06-2002, 02:00 AM
Why should everyone leave these forums just because KMan isn't a good moderator? Wouldn't it be better if that were changed instead? These threads are in response to innapropriate action KMan has performed on these forums, thus they are appropriate here.

If you feel that moderators should be given unilateral control and then abuse it, that's your business, Lime-Light. I personally think that's wrong, and I'm obviously not the only one.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:02 AM
*Okay now back to the match at hand! Where the hell is kman to keep this match going? This was something that was actually keeping me out of boredom for a while. Come on kman! Get your self into the arena and LET'S GET IT ON!!!* :D

*I'm gonna head over to editormg's new concession stand while we're waiting. What else you got in there editor? lol* :D

MkZ Daedric
08-06-2002, 02:05 AM
I'm digging my own grave, but so be it. I agree with BradFu. I think KMan is being too irconhanded here, and should lighten up alittle. I find myself liking these forums less and less everyday, because so many threads are dleted or closed for no real reason.

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 02:07 AM
It's always good to come home. The wonderful people, the exhilerating conversation, the exhibiting of talent. Forget the theater, this is true drama.:D

Musashi pass the popcorn.:p

KMan
08-06-2002, 02:07 AM
VHD- I would say "KMan throws in the towel" But this isn't a fight, and I'm not even going to bother getting into one.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:08 AM
*Oh wait, what's this? Bradfu and his buds are ganging up on kman! Can kman possibly handle this angry mob after him? :rolleyes:*
*We shall see soon! Keep those bets coming!* :D

Illiboy_4_Life
08-06-2002, 02:09 AM
Im sick of Kman to honestly thinking hes god wow hes a mod that hangs on a forum all day

editormg
08-06-2002, 02:14 AM
Did i just see a lock on this thread?

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 02:15 AM
No, I thought it was locked for a minute or so, but it's letting me post again. Damned, I'm out of Vanilla Coke.:D

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 02:17 AM
Originally posted by VampireHunterD
*Oh wait, what's this? Bradfu and his buds are ganging up on kman! Can kman possibly handle this angry mob after him? :rolleyes:*
*We shall see soon! Keep those bets coming!* :D

My bookie cut me off, can you spot me?

BradFu
08-06-2002, 02:18 AM
It was locked, as were the other ones, but they've been combined into one thread, either by another LucasForum admin (I posted someting in the Help/Feedback center) or by KMan for whatever reason.

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 02:25 AM
Hmmmm. An ally in the shadows, perhaps?:D

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:26 AM
*Oh wait! What's this?! Kman has made an incredible comeback by messing up the threads altogether! Score one for the man, the myth, the legend, Kman!!!* :D

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:28 AM
*And now I see the community angry and ready to strike! But they don't stand against kman and his team of Admins! Sucks to be them! lol! :D *

editormg
08-06-2002, 02:29 AM
Might better rethink that one dude. The community is what makes up a forum. Not the moderator.

Just a thought.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:30 AM
*It looks like Kman has handled the community through yet another trick! Score one more for the moderator Kman!* ;)

Twisted Vertex
08-06-2002, 02:31 AM
I gotta pee.....GOD DAMNIT VAMP, move i can't get through........no ............ahh please hurry, It's just getting good and I don't want to miss anything...... MOVE damnit.....hey who stole my GOBBERS?

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:33 AM
*But wait! Now editormg has made a move! He's developed an idea that could have possibility against kman!*

*Does the power or the numbers count in a forum?! You decide which is the leading factor!!* :)

Norin Radd
08-06-2002, 02:35 AM
I sensed a disturbance in the Force. A conflict.

Well, BradFu disagrees with Kman's totalitarianistic rule of the forum. Kman says he is just enforcing the rules. Who is right?

I must contemplate this question.

BradFu
08-06-2002, 02:38 AM
Oh I'm all for enforcing rules, but only if those rules apply to everyone. That's what started this, KMan deciding who is exempt from the rules.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:43 AM
*It looks like there has been a slowing in the match! This match could go on for a long time from the sound of it since kman and the admins are sitting back laughing their heads off! :D *

*It's funny watching these people keep arguing while they're sitting back and having a good time!* :D

*Be sure to place your bets soon! If you do place any!:rolleyes: :D *

Darth Exar Kun
08-06-2002, 02:48 AM
Hmmm the battle is heating up kman vs eveyone its a wonder Lucko Mabriao or someone like him hasn't come to the aid of Kman

Emon
08-06-2002, 02:48 AM
1. This is the MODELING FORUM. Threads not related to modeling to NOT belong in the MODELING FORUM. They belong in forums of the correct categories.

2. Private threads are closed because this is a PUBLIC FORUM. Keyword being PUBLIC, NOT private.

3. Free speach on internet forums? Where does it say that public forums must allow people to have free speach? The use of these forums is your privelage, NOT your right.

4. If you don't like these forums or the moderators here, guess what, you don't have to stay here! No one is forcing you to be here! Leave if you don't like it.

BradFu
08-06-2002, 02:49 AM
VHD - If the Admins were allied with KMan, then some of those troublemakers recently could have been banned, and I would have been banned by now too. As you mentioned earlier, they either don't care what goes on here, or just don't visit these forums and don't know what goes on (I like to think it's the latter :). Hopefully when they take notice, something can be done.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:52 AM
*And as I have stated before, the match has slowed a bit and not much interest is showing for it.*

*And now the match has maybe finally met it's swift end! I'm your host, VampireHunterD! Good Fight! Good Night!* ;)

BradFu
08-06-2002, 02:53 AM
Emon, if you wish to let people get away with whatever they want, feel free. I personally prefer to try to make the situation better. As I said earlier, why should we leave instead of KMan losing his Moderator status? If the top admins of LucasForums.com come in and decide to side with KMan, then I'll leave. But right now, it's KMan acting on his own, and I personally beleive the Administrators would not approve of what he's done if they knew. Anyone who has run forums as long as LucasForums has been around knows that you don't piss on your users. Just because some people are willing to let that continue doesn't mean it should.

editormg
08-06-2002, 02:54 AM
Slowed? How ya know i not typing? lol

Norin Radd
08-06-2002, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Emon
1. This is the MODELING FORUM. Threads not related to modeling to NOT belong in the MODELING FORUM. They belong in forums of the correct categories.

2. Private threads are closed because this is a PUBLIC FORUM. Keyword being PUBLIC, NOT private.

3. Free speach on internet forums? Where does it say that public forums must allow people to have free speach? The use of these forums is your privelage, NOT your right.

4. If you don't like these forums or the moderators here, guess what, you don't have to stay here! No one is forcing you to be here! Leave if you don't like it.

I think that is a very narrowminded attitude to have, if you ask me, which no one did.:D

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 02:57 AM
Slowed? How ya know i not typing? lol

It has nothing to do with that. It has to do with me being tired and losing interest in it. It was funny for a time being.

*Editormg is now the announcer! Happy Fighting!* ;)

Darth Exar Kun
08-06-2002, 03:04 AM
i strongly believe we should remove kman from office what makes you moderater does it take to be one the way kman runs this place any monkey with labtop could do it

Emon
08-06-2002, 03:08 AM
It looks to me like people want to remove KMan's moderator status because he is doing his job as a moderator and enforcing rules...

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 03:09 AM
Originally posted by Emon
1. This is the MODELING FORUM. Threads not related to modeling to NOT belong in the MODELING FORUM. They belong in forums of the correct categories.

2. Private threads are closed because this is a PUBLIC FORUM. Keyword being PUBLIC, NOT private.

3. Free speach on internet forums? Where does it say that public forums must allow people to have free speach? The use of these forums is your privelage, NOT your right.

4. If you don't like these forums or the moderators here, guess what, you don't have to stay here! No one is forcing you to be here! Leave if you don't like it.


It is a PUBLIC Forum, Emon. If a person feels that they have a legitimate complaint against a moderator, they should have the right to make that grievance known, especially if the administrators seem slow to act.

Your comment in #3 shows that you missed the entire point. The issue is whether Kman is abusing his position as moderator and dispensing discipline selectively. Where does it say that someone DOES NOT have free speech on an internet forum?

And you are right, no one is forcing anyone to be here. So, if you do not like this discussion, feel free to not become involved. Simple enough.:D


FINALLY, I would like to call your attention to the meaning of the word, FORUM. :


http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=forum


:)

Emon
08-06-2002, 03:16 AM
Yeah, it's a discussion forum, but there still need to be rules. There are multiple categories to keep things organized, and when someone posts something in the wrong category it gets closed.

Perhaps I am missing the point. You tell me KMan is abusing his power or not using it properly or playing favorites or something, could you give me an example as to where this has happened?

Darth Exar Kun
08-06-2002, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by Emon
It looks to me like people want to remove KMan's moderator status because he is doing his job as a moderator and enforcing rules... no no no no no i want to remove him because he doesn't properly enforce the rules he expcts normal people to bow down to him and other modelers with in-human talent

editormg
08-06-2002, 03:24 AM
No numbers, no power.
Power misused against community = no community(either that or a real crappy one)

If any of you remember the JKO days, you saw the evolution of editing. It evolved. Now it should be very simple to understand that if ideas are silenced on the basis of the "who you know", because someone is a newbie, or b/c Kman thinks your idea sucks then editing will go nowhere.

Because advancements in coding/modelling are made by individuals, not by any one person.

The modeling/skinning arena should not be confined to a few individuals who have had major successes. These people should educate noobs to further the cause. Now i understand the more experienced modelers(and I'm not one of them, but i can figure stuff out over time) have lives apart from doing this stuff. Regular jobs. Kids and such. But to not share info gets us nowhere. There is 1 tutorial and thats it. Spacemonkey's. It has holes, people have questions. Unless of course you can point out more for all the new guys here? Maybe you wouldn't have so many fake posts?

Now the other day i posted an Indiana Jones thread which was closed after like 2 or three posts. I simply asked for reference pics hoping to turn them into a model in Max, thus posting pics. I was closed, pissed on whatever, whathaveyou.

Yes favoritism is a part of life. But to think you're better than this person or that b/c your model or skin(whatever the case)had 15,000 downloads, and to sit around and basking in the glory playing favorites and dictating what should be modeled and what should not is just sad.
Share your knowledge jeez.

As for closed threads. Thats all I've seen for the last week. Nuthin but little locks on threads that actually could go somewhere. Some are done for good reason. But ya know the deal...

1. This is the MODELING FORUM. Threads not related to modeling to NOT belong in the MODELING FORUM. They belong in forums of the correct categories.

Maybe you should rethink naming the forum if the Palpatine Dictatorship Principle is going to be involved.
Discussion of Kman's favoritism directly affects this community. Thus it is entirely valid.

Modeling
Discuss everything and anything related to the world of JKII Modeling

Modeling
Discuss everything and anything related to the world of JKII
Modeling... ....IF it passes KMan's ego test.

3. Free speach on internet forums? Where does it say that public forums must allow people to have free speach? The use of these forums is your privelage, NOT your right.

Quite simply. Because it is our right because it IS public.

4. If you don't like these forums or the moderators here, guess what, you don't have to stay here! No one is forcing you to be here! Leave if you don't like it.

There is an inherent flaw in that statement. Guess what? Because if the forum community does not like the moderator or the rules of the forum, then there is no forum!

Maybe you should rethink naming the forum if the Palpatine Dictatorship Principle is going to be involved.

Modeling
Discuss everything and anything related to the world of JKII Modeling

Modeling
Discuss everything and anything related to the world of JKII
Modeling... ....IF it passes KMan's ego and validity tests.


As for rules yes, I got no prob with posting rules, otherwise it would get really messy.

It all really goes back to Brad's initial statement of playing favorites. If you bend the rules for one, you have to bend them for all. Playing favorites is a dictatorship. If you look at dictatorships they usually spring from 1 person or a group of people who are egomaniacs. One things for sure though. Time and again throughout history dictatorships fail. You can't have a PUBLIC forum with such nonsense.

Didn't write all this mess to further my ego. Just to make people understand Brad's statements.(If I'm understanding correctly.)


Ok im getting off my soapbox now.

Buh Bye

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 03:28 AM
Originally posted by Emon
Yeah, it's a discussion forum, but there still need to be rules. There are multiple categories to keep things organized, and when someone posts something in the wrong category it gets closed.

Perhaps I am missing the point. You tell me KMan is abusing his power or not using it properly or playing favorites or something, could you give me an example as to where this has happened?

No, I'm not saying KMAN is abusing position. I'm not taking sides in this until I know all the facts. I was explaining what the issue at hand was.

I know BradFu, not personally, but from these forums, and I know he is not one to post useless, asinine information. If he is saying this, I think it bears some looking into.

Emon
08-06-2002, 03:30 AM
Oh, I see what you mean. In that case, I agree with BradFu.

dreddsnott
08-06-2002, 03:54 AM
I agree, Kman is a terrible moderator. He hasn't shot some of you lot dead on the spot, even yet.

What he has done should not be so negatively termed 'favoritism', but rather 'improvisation'.

Most of you are very lucky to feel that free speech is an inalienable right, but it does not hold true on this forum. The very existence of a moderator precludes the right to free speech.

editormg
08-06-2002, 04:04 AM
"And I'm the one who thinks that Kinja's ideas are better than others posting for mod requests. That's more than enough reason for me not to close this." - KMan
...Was totally dictatorial

"Everybody knows that Batman and Batman Return were the only good ones. They also know that you should be posting this in the Request Thread." - KMan
...This one didn't need the additional opinion.

"what 3d modeling program are u using cause your whipping up models so fast. i want to try it."
"Keep these private conversations, private. Private Message quamosity instead."
"Ok K-Man well stop posting stuff, geez"

...you keep messages like this private and no new people will get anywhere. Unless old KMan intends on writing new tuts huh?

"why don't you e-mail or pm him?
This isn't a chat room" - KMan

The extra attitude not really needed.

Here's a long one:
http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=72807
valid thread simple but prob an educating discussion to new guys

and the response

"Either make the model and post some pics or put this in the requests thread." -KMan
Quite simply it comes off sounding like he's saying."Look if you don't know have any pics then don't post it. Whether its in progress or not."

Prob wasn't very encouraging for the poor bloake.

Anyways enoguh of my ranting. I mean in all fairness KMan does close threads that need to be closed b/c of silliness, but also closes some that really have no need to be. Or if they do a simple link to the proper category would suffice without the extra comments.

editormg
08-06-2002, 04:05 AM
Improvisation. Interesting term for it. You could be on to something.

Nanodagiardino
08-06-2002, 04:08 AM
The thread is open and it's a chance for us to give some constructive feedback.... sad that most of the posts here are ubber crap... anyway here are my 2cents. I think there is a compromise at stake between the technical aspect and the social aspect of the forum. I Personaly would like a forum where it is also possible to make friends and have some good off-topic laugh, while at the same time learn, improve and show the works. I may be mistaken, but I think Kman did a good job at cutting some of the crap out of the forum. I didn't agree with him a few times, and just PMed him about the problems. I think that having a moderator who participates in his own forum is a good thing, so if there is a way to have a better forum, he will probably listen. For the favoritism part... well If there are rules, they should definitely be the same for everyone. (kinja shame on you for real this time).

inbredyokel
08-06-2002, 04:49 AM
Upon reading bradfu's initial post in this thread, I felt pretty indifferent about the topic and kind of thought it inappropriate of of him to post something here that should be directed to kman via email or PM. Then, however, I read Kman's rather RUDE sarcastic "apology" and thought, "Hmm, if all he can do is mock someone with a serious concern, maybe he shouldn't be a moderator." Following this, I recalled his complete lack of action in the past. I remember several threads filled with many racial and ethnic slurs that didn't receive so much as a visit from Kman let alone deleting or closing the thread. Words like n*gger and fag were used quite insultingly toward other forum users and no action was taken. Now, despite all of VHD's sarcastic narration in this thread, this IS a serious problem. Free speech or not, harassment on an internet forum is no more legal or appropriate than it is in real life. Yet, nothing was done because many of the threads in question contained fake claims of huge modeling or animating achievements, and we apparently didn't want to upset the person just in case they were actually telling the truth. After all, we can let anyone get away with anything as long as they make us an awsome model or show off some cool screenshots, right?

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 05:52 AM
Now, Despite all of VHD's sarcastic narration in this thread,

Well excuse me pal but I've found holding a grudge about the whole situation won't fix anything. I'm sorry but I'm sure the Admins don't give a sh!t. In fact, they pretty much write us all off as little whiny children. It's their call whether to have kman removed or not. Not yours. So there's no need in having an entire thread debating this issue.

If you people are so "hell-bent" on having kman removed from his position why don't you contact the Admins themselves instead of complaining about it in a thread? I'm sure if enough of you people sent several messages to them and kept on at it that would at least get their attention. But I'm not too sure they'll be too forgiving for bothering them though because as I said before I'm sure they don't give a sh!t and would be rather irritated at someone who keeps bugging them about something they might not even care about.

Woodrodius
08-06-2002, 06:21 AM
Riot!!!! Lets go frigging crazy and burn it all down!!! Let's stick it to the man, and go in there, and graffiti the walls and.......


Oh wait, it's just a website, and NONE OF IT MATTERS.




True.

BradFu
08-06-2002, 06:48 AM
I want to clarify a few things for people new to the conversation.

1 - I have no problem with KMan on a personal level. As a person, a modeler, a skinner, and a member of this community, I don't have anything against him. His role as a Moderator is what I'm calling into question.

2 - Emon, you'll want to read this one (You seem to have missed this stuff several times in reading this thread). This whole mess started because KMan FAILED to enforce the rules, not because he IS enforcing them. He made the rule that Mod/TC recruiting doesn't belong here (Unilaterally made that rule, I might add). He has closed a number of threads based on this rule in the past. Kinja posted a recruitment for a TC team that KMan happens to be a member of, and that one is allowed to stay (until this mess started, anyway). That's where the problem lies. Selective enforcement of the rules can't be tolerated. I'm not even going to discuss past things KMan did but shouldn't have (check editormg's post if you're interested in that). All I and others wanted to see was an admission that allowing Kinja's thread to stay up because of favoritism was wrong. I personally don't think he should have even closed Kinja's thread. Instead, that rule should have been modified, or we should have discussed modification of it anyway. Instead, he closed Kinja's thread and specifically said he favoritism had NOT been a factor in letting it stay open. That was a lie.

"And I'm the one who thinks that Kinja's ideas are better than others posting for mod requests. That's more than enough reason for me not to close this." - KMan

That is favoritism. Period.

3 - I actually didn't even start all this. My initial thread on this topic was started because he closed the other thread that was discussing this. I didn't start that previous thread, though I posted to it, and I wholly agree with it. It was closed because it wasn't relating to Modeling. It WAS, however, related to the Modeling Forum and how it is run, and so it was not inappropriate.

4 - VHD: I have, and will continue to do just that. I've posted a thread about this problem in the LucasForums.com Help/Feedback center. I've let one member of the JKII.net staff know this is going on in case they don't visit the forum in the near future, and I will let others know until some appropriate action is taken.

5 - Woodrodius, just because it's the internet does not mean it doesn't matter. The Internet is a social environment, and just because the people you are talking to aren't a few feet away from you doesn't mean respectful social interaction is not necessary. If something is not right in the community, discussing it and making others aware of what's going on and how we feel about it is pretty much the only recourse we have if the Administrators choose not to pay attention.

My only goal with all this stuff is for change to occur. If KMan chooses to discuss this with us in a serious manner and shows a real desire to help this community by being a better moderator, then great! That's one solution. If he wants to continue to try to brush it off and provide flippant responses to valid concerns, then he needs to either step down or be removed. That's another solution. As long as the end result is this forum improving and having a moderator who we can trust to do the right thing, I'll be perfectly happy.

None of this is about a grudge against anyone. As it stands now, when some solution is reached, I won't be treating KMan or anyone else with disrespect (unless they implicitly earn it). I'm not backing off on any of this because I've spent a number of years in Administrative/Moderator roles in chats, and I know that the situation is not how it should be, and needs to be discussed openly and changed for the betterment of the community.

Eets
08-06-2002, 05:36 PM
Alright, let's get a few things straight here..

For one... This thread doesn't belong on this particular category of the JediKnightII.net forums. It would be more suited for a private message or at the very most a Swamp topic. This category is for the discussion of "everything and anything related to the world of JKII Modeling" (taken from the main category listing for the JediKnightII.net forums).

Kman, the guidelines you set forth in this thread (http://lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=66065) are not in agreement with the description of this board's purpose. If you'd like the description changed, then you'll have to ask an Administrator to do that.

If someone wants to post a recruitment thread for a modelling party, then it can be allowed. Model requests should be posted in the requests thread. If there is a topic that is a recruiting thread, it should be moved to the modcentral forums. If there is another topic that is a model request, it should be adjoined to the model requests thread. Any other topic that is not about modelling and that was posted on this modelling board should be moved to the appropriate board. In my opinion, the only reason a thread should be closed is if it has absolutely no purpose other than to spam, or is vulgar in description.

On to the rest of you. Kman has worked hard to make this board a decent modelling community. You should respect his attempts at making this a spam-free environment. Although he may not do the absolute right thing each time, he does do a fairly good job. No one is perfect. Even if you make a great model like Yoda. :D Kman deserves some commendation for his work. Please don't flame him for trying to do his job. After all, it's against the official guidelines. :)

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 05:59 PM
Please don't flame him for trying to do his job. After all, it's against the official guidelines.

Obviously this guy doesn't give a sh!t about the real problem at hand here these guys were having since he probably didn't even bother reading the actual serious posts in the threads.

Hey people kman's not the actual problem. The real problem is uptight d!ckheads like these. ;)

Eets
08-06-2002, 06:00 PM
You can't stop a human from making mistakes at least once in their lives, any more than you can stop the suns from setting. :)

EDIT: Just saw your edit. All I have to say is: Oh oh oh! Now it's on, foo! Bring it on boy, I'll have my posse over here quick fast and in a hurry! ;)

Don't let the things people do get to you. This board is about modelling, not everyday life.

VampireHunterD
08-06-2002, 06:08 PM
EDIT: Just saw your edit. All I have to say is: Oh oh oh! Now it's on, foo! Bring it on boy, I'll have my posse over here quick fast and in a hurry!

Hey well guess what? I saw you close the Anarchy thread. Big deal. You could have just simply moved it to another forum. But no. you had to close it.

So now whatcha gonna do? Ban me? OoOoOoOoO go ahead I've been banned from forums before. It makes no difference to me. lol. ;)

P.S.-Your forums really need cleaning up. They are really sucking right now. lol.

editormg
08-06-2002, 06:13 PM
sorry guys, my fingers ache from last night's posting war and they must rest for awhile... but ya know

Woodrodius
08-06-2002, 08:25 PM
I stand by my opinion that you all are taking everything way too seriously, lol, it's Star Wars for god sakes.




True.

Gooey
08-06-2002, 08:54 PM
so very, very sad...

close, or at lease move, this thread

remark 666
08-06-2002, 08:58 PM
Quit bumping threads!!!
Do you think that some people have actual lives, and model in their hobbies?
When there is something important going on in this thread, you will know because it will be up here.

why is it that you don't yell at people who bump yoda threads or even your threads ? hmm....

personally, I think we need a poll, to see who everyone (the community) wants as a moderator, this way they can't say much for when he does something wrong, it'll be their falt for choosing him =/

I don't remember voting or even wanting "kman" for moderator, hmmm, medetate on this I will..... (not really, I'll just have a beer and watch tv)

go BradFu, good to see people who actually stand up for the whole community, you speak the truth

and Nanodagiardino, the post you made REALLY sounded like ubber crap, get your eyes looked at.

-Chrono_MOT-
08-06-2002, 09:05 PM
*Chrono thinks for a second...*

Nope. Nevermind. If I really posted my opinion here everyone would laugh at kman until the sun exploded.

funny_dude0
08-06-2002, 09:23 PM
Due to my experience with Kman I agree with what you say BradFu. I posted on a forum that had only 1 reply: mine. It was a simple thread asking about the Battle Droid model. He asked when the next version was coming out and I replied by saying I'm interested in that myself. Then he says something way outta line and says "Why not just wait for it to come out like a normal person?" With that piss ass "I am god," attitude remark he closed the thread. I posted a thread similar to this and I can understand why he closed that because people posted useless crap when I asked them not to.
So Kman this is what I have to say to you. Either you resign from you position or I'll find some way to make you.

ZBomber
08-06-2002, 09:41 PM
Uh.. this is working good... I hope you all make peace....

* Runs away *

Drakewl
08-06-2002, 09:47 PM
Kman, i suggest you to do something (with respect to the community) or this bloody mess will grow and grow until this forum is...

a.) full of nonsense
b.) full of hate threads
c.) empty with all modellers gone to another forum
d.) shut down


the community is aware of your artistic and graphical skills, but your social forum modcompetence lacks more and more.



make a clear and fair statement like a professional or get your image damaged somewhat, depends on the point what you give about your rep

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 10:58 PM
I said I would not take sides until I looked at the big picture. KMAN, I'm sorry, but the closed threads are getting out of hand. Really, it's starting to get ridiculous. Just my opinion.

I felt I should add something else. KMAN, I can appreciate that you feel you have a job to do. A task to accomplish, and I can certainly respect that. However, when you approach it in a heavy handed and favoristic manner, it makes you look like a common tyrant. If one person were saying this, I could maybe dismiss it as a simple clash of personalities. This is more than one person, KMAN. I think you need to reevaluate your performance and your attitude. This is just my opinion, not a personal attack. :D

KMan
08-06-2002, 11:04 PM
If you were refering to the Anarchy thread, it is obvious why it was closed.

BradFu
08-06-2002, 11:08 PM
Eets, when we discussed this yesterday, I thought you understood the problem, you seemed to agree at the time. What happened between then and now? You know that there have been problems with KMan as a moderator. The answer isn't to tell people to back off and respect him. The answer is for you to tell him to respect the community and the position. He shouldn't have to be told that, and I shouldn't have to suggest it to you. This forum has been improved in some ways, but with the one step forward, we've taken two steps back. It's up to the Administrators to police the moderators, all we users can do is register our complaints. This discussion does not belong in private, and it does not belong anywhere but here. This is a thread for openly discussing a problem with the Modeling forum. KMan isn't going to be reading it if we post it somewhere like Yoda's Swamp, and that would kill the point. I truly hope this doesn't get brushed off, because this forum is suffering, and if it continues, more and more people will leave. Some great modellers have already wandered a way, with more leaning that direction. The only thing thats going to save this forum is if someone with some authority actually gives a crap.

Exar Kun II
08-06-2002, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by kman@polycount
If you were refering to the Anarchy thread, it is obvious why it was closed.

(SIGH)

No, I am not referring to any specific thread. I am talking about your approach to moderation in this forum, in general. Stop playing games. I give you credit for being a person of average intelligence at the minimum. If you cannot see the issue at hand, then:

1. You are not willing to see it.
2. You are not capable of seeing it.

In either case, perhaps a new moderator is needed.

(And no, I am not volunteering).;)

Eets
08-06-2002, 11:21 PM
Originally posted by BradFu
Eets, when we discussed this yesterday, I thought you understood the problem, you seemed to agree at the time. What happened between then and now? You know that there have been problems with KMan as a moderator. The answer isn't to tell people to back off and respect him. The answer is for you to tell him to respect the community and the position. He shouldn't have to be told that, and I shouldn't have to suggest it to you. This forum has been improved in some ways, but with the one step forward, we've taken two steps back. It's up to the Administrators to police the moderators, all we users can do is Yoda's Swamp, and that would kill the point. I truly hope this doesn't get brushed off, because this forum is suffering, and if it register our complaints. This discussion does not belong in private, and it does not belong anywhere but here. This is a thread for openly discussing a problem with the Modeling forum. KMan isn't going to be reading it if we post it somewhere like continues, more and more people will leave. Some great modellers have already wandered a way, with more leaning that direction. The only thing thats going to save this forum is if someone with some authority actually gives a crap.

Obviously you didn't notice that the part where I addressed Kman was about 2/4 larger than the part where I addressed everyone else. :)

I'm not saying that Kman wasn't at fault, I'm not saying he shouldn't be dealt with, and I'm not saying that the regular forummers are full of crap. I'm not going to get in the middle of a forum "turf war", either. Clearly both of the parties involved here need to step back and examine how large a part these forums play in their lives...

SAIK HUAT
08-06-2002, 11:41 PM
KMAN keeps shutting down my posts to ARCO.

1. the first post was i suppose a direct question to arco and nobody else, so basically it didnt belong in the forum, kman closed it (fair play...) but he also told me that i should e-mail him or pm him to get in contact.

*So i scanned the forums for his name so i could pm him or find out his e-mail and i found nothing*

EDITED
In the end Kman agreed to help me filling in ARCOS place and also managed to get me Arcos e-mail, how nice I was too quick to judge...

NemoX
08-07-2002, 12:26 AM
I am glad you brought this to everyones attention, i have noticed for the past couple of weeks how K-Man not only closes the thread but adds an insulting comment to the original poster. I wanted to say something but i'm just not elquant(i hope i spelled that right, too lazy to check) enough, I'm glad you did, because you are a prominent and well respected member of this forum. Editormg, you made some great points as well.

That's all i have to say.

Matariel
08-07-2002, 01:20 AM
jesus christ! all of you guys get a ****ing life!! bitching about kman for ****s sake! he closes threads that are pointless and shouldnt be in this forum (like this one in my opinion)

follow the rules of the forum and theres no problem, post in the right place and theres no problem...dont follow the rules and dont post in the right place and you get a smart little comment from kman (which you DO deserve), and your thread promptly closed.

Please, dont get ahead of your station here, kman was given responsibility over this forum, so respect it and we'll all get along.

now, children its past your bedtime

Sith Inquisitor
08-07-2002, 01:26 AM
Originally posted by Matariel

now, children its past your bedtime

That would include you as well, I would think. LOL!:D

KMan
08-07-2002, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by SAIK HUAT

*So i scanned the forums for his name so i could pm him or find out his e-mail and i found nothing*

2.So I decided to post a general inquiry to the modding community for Arcos e-mail, which should belong in any related forum. K-man closed it just because it was in slight relation with the first post of mine.


Let me straighten this one out-
Obviously you didn't look hard enough. Maybe you could have tried the Emperor Palpatine, Yoda, or Darth Maul threads, as he worked on those, and I'm sure made numerous posts.
And I suppose you don't check your PM's as I sent you his e-mail address right before I closed it. In case he does not want to have his e-mail address made public.

Matariel
08-07-2002, 01:42 AM
i agree with kman, he closed threads that contained silly questions that could've been answered by looking through some of the proper threads.

This is a modelling forum, so only modelling threads should be here, all that other crap ('err...what this guys email?') just clutters up the forum

VampireHunterD
08-07-2002, 02:22 AM
I agree with kman and the others on this one. Get a ****!ng life an leave them alone. They're tired of listening to bickering, and so am I. Close this thread. It's beginning to sound like a bad track from a sucky band played on repeat a thousand times.

It's time to pull the plug on this p.o.s.. ;)

dreddsnott
08-07-2002, 02:28 AM
I don't see this as the end, unfortunately, but I would like to see this matter dealt with more privately, and the end results made apparent to the community.

The only judgment of kman's that I take issue with is the Forum Guidelines vs. the description of the forum, as brought up by Eets. I think Eets has the right idea on a couple of things. ;)

Emon
08-07-2002, 02:30 AM
BradFu's point is that KMan hasn't enforced rules where they should be and obviously playing favorites.

Darth Exar Kun
08-07-2002, 02:32 AM
he missuses his power as moderater to not only closes the thread he doesn't have a connection . if he was president we would have impeacheed him

BradFu
08-07-2002, 02:44 AM
Lets keep the personal comments and exclamations to a minimum. I'd rather not see this degenerate into a shouting/insulting match :) The point of this thread is to discuss problems and possible solutions (Despite the strongly-worded Subject).

SAIK HUAT
08-07-2002, 03:59 AM
I deleted my nasty comment about asking kman to go back to polycount. I was too quick to judge kman and have now found myself working on the same team as kman on my latest project (yes the guard)

This is how it now reads:

KMAN keeps shutting down my posts to ARCO.

1. the first post was i suppose a direct question to arco and nobody else, so basically it didnt belong in the forum, kman closed it (fair play...) but he also told me that i should e-mail him or pm him to get in contact.

*So i scanned the forums for his name so i could pm him or find out his e-mail and i found nothing*

EDITED
In the end Kman agreed to help me filling in ARCOS place and also managed to get me Arcos e-mail, how nice I was too quick to judge...

dreddsnott
08-07-2002, 04:08 AM
A noble gesture indeed, Saik Huat.

I hope this whole thing can get resolved without any seppuku or hara kiri...although a couple of odd characters are performing kamikaze on this poor thread!

Heehee, that was horrible! :D

Kor
08-07-2002, 09:47 AM
If all of you people took the energy for posting in this stupid thread and used it more wisely,

YOU COULD HAVE SOLVED THE INTIRE ANAMATIONS PROBLEM BY NOW!!!!!!!



Kor

HapSlash
08-07-2002, 10:13 AM
I have to admit, kman hasn't been on my good side in the past, from even before he was an admin. I've never thought much of
his demeaning attitude towards others, and when he became a moderator I felt sick to my stomach.

But, I gave him the benefit of the doubt, and said nothing. As the next few weeks passed I saw many threads closed, some, in
my opinion, rather unjustly. But seeing as he had been an admin. for only a short time, I still withheld my opinions. Lately
though I've seen some threads by first time posters closed with rather inappropriate comments added to them by Kman, and
others deleted entirely.

Now, I believe in rules and their enforcement, but not at the expense of the community. In my mind it's the moderators duty to
keep things from getting out of hand, not keeping them in line.


For those of you who believe that this topic doesn't belong in this forum, take a look at the skinning forum. It's been turned into
a desolate wasteland of help starved novices. The forum now only gets about 10 posts a day, about 1/3 of which end up in
closed threads, and there is never any more than 3-5 people on at any given time. It's slow demise is mainly due to the more
experienced skinners moving on, and the less experienced being unable to find the help they need.

The fledgling skinners without any other guidance seem to have proclaimed me a god, or so I've been told,... While I don't
necessarily agree with them, the compliments are nice.

It's lonely over there,...

KBell
08-07-2002, 11:04 AM
Amen to Hapslash ! all bow before the mighty god :p

Plasmacoolant
08-07-2002, 01:32 PM
Hapslash definitely took the thoughts right out of my head, I have had 100% the same reaction, but also have said nothing. I had considered informing my hosts at jkii.net about my concerns but later dismissed the idea because my purpose on the forums is to learn from the community and have fun with the creativity we all want to put into the community, not create friction within it.

The most frustrating thing is when you see one of those comments on someone's post - you become annoyed because of the uncivil nature of the comment - you look down for the post reply button to speak your mind and BAM it has been closed.

Although I post infrequently I read most posts regularly and the skinning forum is definitely a lot less populated than when I first started frequenting the forums. I believe this is in part due to the moderating.

I think BradFu's original point is valid and was necessary in initiating this discussion and allow those who have concerns to give their opinion.

I don't think anyone has a problem with BS posts being deleted but KMan definitely has the last word way too often.


-Plas.

funny_dude0
08-07-2002, 03:03 PM
I think this thread has gone on long enough. It is either time for Kman to admit to his mistake/s sincerely, or BradFu you should take the next step.

cROsIs**
08-07-2002, 03:16 PM
CLOSE





THIS





THREAD

Darth Exar Kun
08-07-2002, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by cROsIs**
CLOSE





THIS





THREAD That is how this whole big mess got started

Revan Bakr'
08-07-2002, 10:28 PM
Kman, I'm just going to lay it all out. In all of your replies to my threads and posts, you have been somewhat condescending, which is only magnified by your comment of "just to show I am the better man...". The thread I believe we are all talking about is the one started by PIo Koon. That was an appropriate thread and what you did was not appropriate. IMO, it was abusing your power. Go ahead flame me.

Revan Bakr'
08-07-2002, 10:34 PM
Hapslash, I had not read your comments when I posted for the first time. Let me tell you, your feelings about kman are the feelings of many others, count me in. In the thread that started this thread, Kman wrote: Clickie!

(Here he typed a link to the Modeling Forum Guidelines thread)

-----------------------------

I am sick of this! Kman needs to reform his attitude or ban everybody who agrees with this, which will not work in the long run because we will be back and it will only mar his rep further.
I thought these forums were different from the forums I've visited in the past. But I guess there's a Kman everywhere.....

remark 666
08-08-2002, 04:32 AM
Originally posted by Eets
examine how large a part these forums play in their lives...

none, to me at least BUT getting new **** for Jk2 wouldn't be a bad thing, with the closing of all the threads very hard to do (and sometimes the best ideas come out of the pointless topics)

personally, I vote for a new moderator, who's more involved with the people and actually liked by them (a lot of them, not only by the modelers/skinners/friends type)

Woodrodius
08-08-2002, 07:23 AM
Ok, I'll be the new moderator, all hail King Woodrodius. What do I have to do? And will this job get me chicks?