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oreo
08-07-2002, 04:50 PM
first off sorry about the wip Neo model i posted a few days back(btw admin u can del that post), i did do the model but i screwed up that one really bad, i couldnt get the head rite and it ended up looking like someone else, i restarted from scratch couple times but still couldnt get it rite, the trenchcoat was another problem, my reference didnt provide enough detail as to how exactly the coat looked, anyways after couple tries i decided to start something fresh and i bring u Trinity! OMG! she was WAY easier to model than Neo for some reason, prolly cuz i didnt include trenchcoat. Note this is my VERY FIRST model EVER, well maybe second if u count the failed Neo, and here r some pics (ya this time i have them!) im a modeling newbie so i need some feedback as i prolly made lots of mistakes.

(chk page 3 for newest model update)

ok to view these links DRAG THE LINK TO YOUR ADDRESS BAR

KBell
08-07-2002, 04:51 PM
broken links

KMan
08-07-2002, 04:53 PM
What's the polycount on that model? Looks a bit low. Could be just me though. I'm unwrapping a model for UT2k3 right now.

oreo
08-07-2002, 04:55 PM
broken links?
hmm kman were they broken?

ExarDunnan
08-07-2002, 04:57 PM
yeah, I can't get to them

KBell
08-07-2002, 04:59 PM
Yeah K-Man i saw some of your work on Ploycouunt and its top-notch.

Im sure everyone has been flaming you, but they sure cant flame your work

oreo
08-07-2002, 05:03 PM
o ya well thats like the first stage i can easily add mesh smooth iterations 1 to add more

KMan
08-07-2002, 05:28 PM
I'd advise against using meshsmooth. Especially since this is going into a game. Just add more geometry to it and smooth her out. You have the shape going, just add more details. Add depth to the clothing, digits to her club hands, etc.

As for the links, drag them into the top address bar. and the first one, remove the 'r'

Sounds Risky
08-07-2002, 05:35 PM
Give her some hips.

oreo
08-07-2002, 11:51 PM
hmm just wondering y all those ppl who requested matrix models arent giving any feedback

funny_dude0
08-07-2002, 11:56 PM
This may be too early to address this but her hair is WAY off. She has black hair not blonde. As for the sunglasses it looks kewl. Could you make 3 verions maybe? 1 with sunglasses and a over coat, 1 with glasses and no over coat, and 1 with no sunglasses and just the clothes. Definetely give her more hips cuz she had one hell of a big butt.

oreo
08-08-2002, 12:00 AM
umm dude... i just assinged temporary material colors to the polys to make it more disguinshable, its not the actual skin... i didnt bother to selct the hair polys and make it black but i might do that in the next update...

funny_dude0
08-08-2002, 12:44 AM
Hey I said that it may be to early in the progress to bring it up so don't ****ing flame me for it god. Her hips... I don't know if it's the way she's standing... lol... ehem or what but she had WAY rounder hips than that in the movie.

Emon
08-08-2002, 01:00 AM
It's a good start and it looks pretty good. My only complaint is that it's so low poly I've really seen JK player models with more polys. Smooth mesh it, or optimize it with that thingy, or something.

funny_dude0
08-08-2002, 01:00 AM
I think he's going to just not for a while.

Emon
08-08-2002, 01:41 AM
Oh yeah, it's your first model, it's looking good for a first, definatly.

oreo
08-08-2002, 05:22 AM
model update: ok i gave her nicer hips, and added polys the polycount is now 1139 verts and 1623 polys. added the belt and fixed the hands with individual fingers. might not look much diff but actually did lots of work, and also fitted the model around the skeleton perfectly, i think the mesh is pretty much done unless something is wrong. o btw if anyone of u expert modelers can tell me, theres a problem with the hands, im sure that the hand attaches to the forearm perfectly but for some reason part of it seems to be invisible making it look like theres a gap in between anyone know wut the problem might be? anyways here r the pics:

=============================
DRAG THE LINKS TO YOUR ADDRESS BAR
=============================

page 2 for newest model update

leXX
08-08-2002, 05:50 AM
I have been looking forward to a model of Trinity and begging in the official request thread for soooooo long now that I could hardly believe my eyes when my friend told me there was a Trinity WIP. I am so glad someone has finaly decided to do her!

Just a couple of things...don't forget to keep the leather look of her clothes very shiney and make sure her hair parting is to the side.

Good luck to you oreo, keep up the good work! :thumbsup:

oreo
08-08-2002, 05:52 AM
hmm i wonder y noone seems to even care, none of the ppl who requested matrix models has given feedback, shold i even continue the model?

oreo
08-08-2002, 05:53 AM
ok wow finally! someone ! hey thx lexx !

leXX
08-08-2002, 05:54 AM
Perhaps it's because, not many ppl other than modelers visit this forum so do not know about it! Trust me they care!!!

I will help spread the word for you :D You should have a few more comments very soon.

oreo
08-08-2002, 06:15 AM
hey lexx thx! btw is that avatar from Titan AE?

leXX
08-08-2002, 07:41 AM
Yep :thumbsup:

Post your answer here and u win a cookie! :D

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73430

keo718
08-08-2002, 09:06 AM
Her hips still look too narrow, from the front and the back. Also her head shape seems a bit off, as It gets very wide near the top.

oreo
08-08-2002, 09:22 AM
narrow? i cant make them any bigger or else she starts looking werid i already tried, plus the references i had dindt show that she had THAT BIG of a butt as most of u said, its actually medium

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 09:31 AM
is there some way to actually see those images ??

Deetox187
08-08-2002, 09:34 AM
copy/paste them into a new window, works for me.

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Deetox187
copy/paste them into a new window, works for me.

if i do that or "anything" i get this:

HTTP1.1 STATUS 403 Remote Access to this object forbidden This file cannot be directly accessed from a remote site, but must be linked through the Brinkster Member's site.

oreo
08-08-2002, 09:44 AM
umm havent i wrote it bold enough ? this is the last time im gonna say to view the pics DRAG THE LINK TO YOUR ADDRESS BAR, or COPY AND PASTE IT IN A NEW WINDOW, the first way is quicker, o and look at the updated ones near the middel not the ones at the top

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by oreo
umm havent i wrote it bold enough ? this is the last time im gonna say to view the pics DRAG THE LINK TO YOUR ADDRESS BAR, or COPY AND PASTE IT IN A NEW WINDOW, the first way is quicker, o and look at the updated ones near the middel not the ones at the top

You mean these:

http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/trinfnt2.jpg
http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/trinbak2.jpg
http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/trintop2.jpg
http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/triside2.jpg

right ??

Well i can copy them to my address bar or i can drag it in
to there or i can open new windown and paste it there or
i can select and press open in new window

but all i get:

HTTP1.1 STATUS 403 Remote Access to this object forbidden This file cannot be directly accessed from a remote site, but must be linked through the Brinkster Member's site.

Master Burner
08-08-2002, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by ALIEN_JL


You mean these:

http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/trinfnt2.jpg
http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/trinbak2.jpg
http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/trintop2.jpg
http://www25.brinkster.com/oreo888/triside2.jpg

right ??

Well i can copy them to my address bar or i can drag it in
to there or i can open new windown and paste it there or
i can select and press open in new window

but all i get:

HTTP1.1 STATUS 403 Remote Access to this object forbidden This file cannot be directly accessed from a remote site, but must be linked through the Brinkster Member's site.

try this...
click the link then when it says the remote access thing delete the jpg in the link and click again this time it can't find the site after that just add the jpg again and it should work...

oreo
08-08-2002, 10:21 AM
im trying to find a hosts that allows outside linking for easier viewing since some of u still cant see the pics, but its harder than i thought, anyone know places to host pics

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Master Burner
try this...
click the link then when it says the remote access thing delete the jpg in the link and click again this time it can't find the site after that just add the jpg again and it should work...

No luck:(

Originally posted by oreo
im trying to find a hosts that allows outside linking for easier viewing since some of u still cant see the pics, but its harder than i thought, anyone know places to host pics

I use homestead... (it might not be best but it
allows outside linking...)

oreo
08-08-2002, 10:45 AM
homestead isnt free
btw try to hold shift and click refresh when u use those methods to load the pics

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by oreo
homestead isnt free

it isn't ??

Oh hmm... i haven't payed anything and it have been
working fine for ~3 years maybe..:rolleyes:

I have 8MB of space and 1024 MB/month bandwidth

its hmm... free:rolleyes:

oreo
08-08-2002, 11:04 AM
umm r u sure... they only have 30day trial now after 30 days ur site becomes a 'upgrade your account now!' site

oreo
08-08-2002, 11:07 AM
updated links, these should work for everyone:

chk page 3 for newest model update

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by oreo
umm r u sure... they only have 30day trial now after 30 days ur site becomes a 'upgrade your account now!' site

Oh maybe... i don't know... :rolleyes:

but it have been working for at least 3 years
now... ( not less than 30 days...:D )

And when i log in it says:

TRIAL EXPIRED = NO
TRIAL USER = NO

hmm....

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 11:18 AM
Anyway you new links works :D

And looks good (exept in that side
pic where her head is huge)

oreo
08-08-2002, 11:21 AM
actually im sure the head is the rite size, it looks werid only cuz of the material colors... i coulndt get the exact pixels of the polys to be covered with black so some parts have been left out which makes her face looks bigger, but that will be covered once its skinned properly

Twins of Doom
08-08-2002, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by oreo
im trying to find a hosts that allows outside linking for easier viewing since some of u still cant see the pics, but its harder than i thought, anyone know places to host pics

OOH OOH OOOH!!:D


BTW: good work on the model so far...what lexx said;)


i'll host the pictures on my site, ok?

i'll reply again in a couple seconds with links

funny_dude0
08-08-2002, 03:11 PM
It could be the way that she's standing but women's hips are a HELL of a lot wider than that. I know that the model may look funky when you widen them but she either had huge hips or it was just the clothes she was wearing. Anyway good model. Still need some work on the hair a little.

Twins of Doom
08-08-2002, 03:12 PM
alright, here are the new links to the ones on my server (you can just click on them now:))

oreos, when you get new updates just contact me on AOL, ICQ, or MSN Messenger

or if you don't have any of those put them in an attachement in an email to philandrew_t@hotmail.com

AIM: philandrewT
MSN: philandrew_t@hotmail.com
ICQ: 1449920497

here is the links now
everybody get ready:D

http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinbak2.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinfnt2.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trintop2.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/triside2.jpg

i can't get to the original ones though because it says it can't find the server

Chewcaca_Dookie
08-08-2002, 03:24 PM
Can we please see an textured rendition of the model so far. I think those pre prep photos are not doing us justice to make educated and poductive decisions on this model.

I need a model with actual skinning of Carie Ann Moss as Trinity on this model. I'll make my judgements at that time.

Great work so far!

Chewcaca_Dookie
08-08-2002, 03:25 PM
i agree!

ALIEN_JL
08-08-2002, 03:35 PM
my opinion:

http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinside2.jpg

Look to that pic - ( if you think that her head is OK size then... :nutz1: )

Priority 1 - Fix that !

Then other things...

waist (thinner... "carefully" - not too much..)
hips (wider... not so carefully...)

And smooth textured pics...

--------------------------------------------------------

oreo
08-08-2002, 04:38 PM
hmm ok thx for feedback ill do my best
as for the skinned preview yes i want that too! but i havent even started the skin yet... that comes later... expect update again really soon

hey Twins of Doom thx for your offer, i have icq but the number u gave me seems to be wrong :P

oreo
08-08-2002, 04:43 PM
alien jl take a look at this reference pic and see if u still think the head is too big:

http://oreo8.netfirms.com/012.jpg

but i will scale down her head a lil bit more anyways... but its not WAY too big.. prolly need less extrusion on the face, but then again i didnt cover part of the hair thats suppose to be there

bleek
08-08-2002, 06:15 PM
Is it just me...or does her legs look a bit too short. It looks to me like her torso is not in proportion with her legs.

teutonicknight
08-08-2002, 06:51 PM
Wow! That model looks great!

BTW: I was sent hear by lexx :D

I will help spread the word for you You should have a few more comments very soon.

Twins of Doom
08-08-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by teutonicknight
Wow! That model looks great!

BTW: I was sent hear by lexx :D



i was sent here by lexx too:P

and its the wrong one? maybe i could have made a typo, i'll put it in again

ICQ: 149920497
Name: twins_of_doom

oreo
08-08-2002, 08:01 PM
===========
model update
===========

ok i scaled her head smaller and i refuse to make any more size changes to the head because its already getting out of form, fixed the hand problem, made her butt wider and rounder, trimed her waist slightly and smoothed the renders, i have to get capping soon so prolly only one more mesh editing update

here r the new pics:

================

latest model update on page 3

funny_dude0
08-08-2002, 08:41 PM
Looking good except that her clothes look like it's a one piece. And believe you me she WAS wearing more than 1 piece of clothing if ya know what I mean.

oreo
08-09-2002, 12:34 AM
im starting to wonder if u really know wut modeling is about... that isnt the actual skin... it doesnt matter if it looks like '1 piece' cuz the skinning part is wut makes the difference... also the parts have been smoothed and aligned so it looks like 1 piece but it isnt...

oreo
08-09-2002, 12:37 AM
note to all: ill be capping after the next update, so if u wanna see more changes of the model pls comment now! once i start the next stage i will not go back and edit the model

Enjoi9187
08-09-2002, 01:41 AM
oreo, man, dont let him get to you. he is just messing with you like to get you pissed off acting like he doesnt know anything.

DarkJedi91681
08-09-2002, 01:45 AM
wut da heck lol come on now, da face doesn't look like trinity lol its a nice model but it looks so simple compared to other models out there. i suggest remakin da face to look like trinity instead of lookin a lil plain. the body looks fine now tho, i cant complain there, i just want an actual lookin trinity :)

Darth Vigrid
08-09-2002, 01:51 AM
Good Lord... The face looks plain becuase it hasn't been skinned yet.

Nice job so far oreo.

Frumpus
08-09-2002, 02:29 AM
Hey oreo; great idea! Looking good so far.

As far as tweaking before the capping, I'll try to be more specific:

From the back view, her armpits (axillae) could be moved UP a bit, and the shoulders generally broadened. Carrie Ann Moss has quite broad shoulders. Define the deltoids after repositioning the shoulders.

BTW, what program are you using to model (Milkshape)? If it's either Gmax or 3DSMax, I find SOFT SELECTION very useful to adjust body part positions without messing up the look of the rest. It can save a TON of vertex-by-vertex work.

As far as the Hips/Waist is concerned: If you were to suck the ribcage INnwards and UPwards a bit, and pinch the stomach area, it would create more of a "waist" for her (see the pic you posted: http://oreo8.netfirms.com/012.jpg )

Also, her thighs look like they are touching (left and right), although there needs to be a "bit" of a crotch area. By pulling apart ALL of the vertices from the BELT to the TOES (even just by an "inch or two"), you'll 1. give her a crotch, 2. widen her hips.

Here's an early version of an elf I made:
http://jitd.fragland.net/php/upload/kram/earlyelf2.jpg
(I know the neck is a bit long, but. . )

Very SMALL adjustments such as these will make a BIG difference in the final product. :)

I haven't been 3D modelling for very long, but I've made hundreds and hundreds of sketches of the human form during my life.

leXX
08-09-2002, 04:52 AM
http://www.matrixfansite.com/pics/color03/808-1-k0036.jpg
http://www.matrixfansite.com/pics/color03/808-1-k0044.jpg
http://www.matrixfansite.com/pics/color04/808-1-k0047.jpg

Looking very good so far oreo. Above are some good reference pictures for you for the skinning phase! Good luck :D

oreo
08-09-2002, 06:52 AM
hmm ok thx guys for the suggestions especially from frumpus thx a ton, i realized the problem about the crotch too, but then if i have a closeup ull prolly see it more clearly i did add a crotch area but it was too narrow as a result of smoothing, it looks like its joined, i will make it a lil wider, and the waist i already did that but maybe just a bit more, but then u see the thing is in diff ref pics her waist isnt that much 'slanted' as in that pic i posted, it was prolly the way she was standing in that angle that made her waist look like that, and ya ill fix the armpits, anyways thx to all of u who helped, expect the final mesh tweak update in couple hrs

Matariel
08-09-2002, 07:13 AM
how many polys are you pushing? looks like you could add more detail, especially on the face area

otherwise, it looks good

oreo
08-09-2002, 08:32 AM
hmm rite now its at 2k ill push another 400-600, ya on the face, and also the lower torso and legs,

RotM_Sypher
08-09-2002, 09:55 AM
Originally posted by Frumpus


Here's an early version of an elf I made:
http://jitd.fragland.net/php/upload/kram/earlyelf2.jpg
(I know the neck is a bit long, but. . )



DUDE You should lend that elf model to the Lord of the Rings TC team.

http://jitd.jk2files.com/

oreo
08-09-2002, 10:06 AM
hmm u could have told him that some other way pls try to stick to comments of my model :P

RotM_Sypher
08-09-2002, 10:23 AM
Good looking Trinity model btw

:D

leXX
08-09-2002, 02:02 PM
btw oreo...what are you going to use for her taunt?

Dodge This! is the obvious one...I really hope you use it! :D

http://www.matrixfans.net/thematrix/sounds/dodgeths.wav

funny_dude0
08-09-2002, 02:20 PM
For christ's sakes people i'm not tryin to get oreo pissed off. I'm trying to give him some ****ing constructive criticism then you gotta flame my ass. Back the **** off.
Since the skin will make all the difference on her clothes then I think the actual model is done. Are you going to skin it or are you going to get some1 else to?

funny_dude0
08-09-2002, 02:23 PM
"Dodge This," would be the perfect taunt :D. If you can you may want to add a few others since with the new JediMod you can do multiple taunts.

oreo
08-10-2002, 01:43 AM
ya dodge this is definately in my list, but ill plan those later, i still have couple stages to go thru b4 the actual skinning :P

oreo
08-10-2002, 03:25 PM
hmm a few ppl msged me on the progress of trinity since i said next update will be couple hrs, well just letting u guys know i was busy for the day so i couldnt get time to work on it, i just started working on it again, and omg i realized there were way more to tweak than the ones i said, but the next update will be sweet, i promise ;) , thatll be in around 12 hrs so be patient :P

leXX
08-12-2002, 06:54 AM
*cough* Any news? *cough*

I tried to be patient...I really did! :D

Emon
08-12-2002, 09:30 PM
2K polys? That's quite low, but looking good. Kyle is 4.5K O_o

Grafox
08-13-2002, 07:15 AM
Originally posted by RotM_Sypher


DUDE You should lend that elf model to the Lord of the Rings TC team.

http://jitd.jk2files.com/

Hehe, lol, he's already on the team :)

Mix_Master2k
08-13-2002, 09:38 AM
the model looks really good, is there anyone making a neo or morpheus? For morpheus you could prolly use the base model of a mace windu and reskin it. Just some suggestions for a matrix pack...

oreo
08-13-2002, 09:45 AM
well if noone has started them i was planning to do Neo then Morpheus after Trinity :P btw for those of u wondering wut happened to my final tweak update, its ready, im only waiting for twins of doom to get online so i can post the pics :D

oddjob: A-Team
08-13-2002, 11:06 AM
Your model looks suspiciously like this one:
http://www.heavenofrags.de/reviews/player/gfx/trinreview.jpg

You can download it here and take a look at it in the Chumbalumb Half-Life Model Viewer if you don't belive me.
http://www.heavenofrags.de/reviews/player/~AustinTrinityRage.html

I wonder where you got the Neo model now...

oreo
08-13-2002, 12:09 PM
cool i think ive seen that b4... but i dont think my model looks like it at all... maybe they look a bit alike (afterall she IS trinity)but i think mines way more detailed and accurate... once i release the model then ull see...

oreo
08-13-2002, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by oddjob: A-Team


I wonder where you got the Neo model now...

umm WTF.... r u accusing me of stealing models!!! WTF!!!!!! u know theres also like a few diff anakins out there r u saying then they stole each other's models !!! dont accuse ppl u idiot!!!!!!!

oddjob: A-Team
08-13-2002, 02:20 PM
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/head.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/front.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/side.jpg

Yes, I am saying that you stole trinity. Those are screenshots of the trinity model released for my mod Action Half-Life that I decompiled in Milkshape and then exported into Max. And I invite any modeler out there that doesn't belive me to do the same. It doesn't just bare passing resemblance to yours because they are from the same subject. They are very obviously the same model. You just pushed and pulled a few verts and turned a couple of edges. That's IT. And of course, you added the Jedi Knights hands from some model, probably Kyle.

See, you might have pulled it off if somebody that hadn't worked extensively with that model didn't frequent this board. But you can't fool the lead modeler on said mod. Or any other modeler of any worth that takes a look at the mesh from the AHL model and compares it with yours. See, when making a model you make a bunch of choices on how to change your raw poly's into a recognizable form. Those choices are what make those Anakin models OBVIOUSLY different even though they come from the same subject. But aside from the few verts and edges you have manipulated, your model is, vert by vert, edge by edge, EXACTLY like the AHL/HL one. And that doesn't just 'happen'. Hell, look at the your and my side renders. The stance is exactly the same. You didn't change the profile at all.

Go away FRAUD.

KBell
08-13-2002, 02:36 PM
Get um Pa

Sounds like one of them frauds to me.... now if only we got one of them there testimoneys from That Oreo feller.....

oreo
08-13-2002, 02:55 PM
im amazed u can say all that... heres to prove u wrong about ur accusations, look at my newest model update

Mix_Master2k
08-13-2002, 03:01 PM
lets say that he did take trinity, did you not just say that it was open for any modelers to take? If so, then dont flame him for stealing your model when you released it, and if he did, simply give the original host credit for the base, and yourself credit for making it better. geezus

oreo
08-13-2002, 03:07 PM
===========
Model Update
===========

i said this is gonna be my final tweak update, but i decided maybe (just maybe) i might do 1 last one to the mesh as there r some parts im still not happy with, made boot taller, fixed crotch area, fixed face, fixed arm, added her pistols,fixed belt, fixed armpits, fixed the butt more (should be perfect now) anyways here r the pics:

=============================================

Current Vert Count: 2675
Current Poly Count: 4473

http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinfront4.jpg
http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinside4.jpg
http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinback4.jpg
http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trintop4.jpg

KBell
08-13-2002, 03:45 PM
must....stop....posting...pointless...replys...... ..

Cant we all just get along? Lets get back to the subject at hand and if you still have beef with oreo, start a new thread and let K-Man shut her down :p

oreo
08-13-2002, 03:54 PM
1) now how in the hell does that look 'exactly' like urs?
2) i just chked that model u claimed i 'stole' its polycount is NOWHERE EVEN CLOSE to the ones i have right now... if u said all i did was 'pull a few verts and turned some faces pls tell me how the hell does mine look way more detailed
3) heres a model of super high quality jarjarbinks model made by Valtteri & Hannu http://www.theforce.net/scifi3d/starwars/characters.htm
when i first looked at it i thought it was the same one that Major Clod, then i realised they werent the same... even tho they almost looked exactly the same they were in fact different can u say that he stole the jarjar model then?
4) i fail to see how in any of the views that my model looked 'exactly like urs' and that i 'didnt even change a thing' maybe u have bad eyes but they look quite diff to me...
5)i urge fellow modelers out there to come and judge this!

KBell
08-13-2002, 03:59 PM
i would judge it, but i would hate to be in the middle of a family fued :p

Just read my sig and everything will be alll right.....

oreo
08-13-2002, 04:22 PM
umm dude... can u scroll up like a few posts and look at the model update ....

Darth-Nasty
08-13-2002, 04:24 PM
i'm no moddler but to my untrained eye i would have to say that they dont look identical

KBell
08-13-2002, 04:30 PM
well, i never said i COULDNT......its just that i WONT judge... cause i feel that i dont wanna be in the middle of a flame war over whos model looks more identical... or whos the fraud...

so dont "dude" me man:p

oddjob: A-Team
08-13-2002, 04:32 PM
Originally posted by Mix_Master2k
lets say that he did take trinity, did you not just say that it was open for any modelers to take? If so, then dont flame him for stealing your model when you released it, and if he did, simply give the original host credit for the base, and yourself credit for making it better. geezus

There is a HUGE difference between releasing a model for download and using it for playing the game and STEALING a model and passing it off as your own. And unless he get's permission from Neal 'Guplik' Corbett, the original creator of the model, what he is doing is not only unethical, it's also really pathetically stupid. Especially when he thinks that real modelers won't notice.

KBell
08-13-2002, 04:39 PM
eek

Darth-Nasty
08-13-2002, 04:41 PM
Originally posted by BakerS8er
i dont wanna be in the middle of a flame war over whos model looks more identical

well they are obviously as identical as each other?

anyway it is inconclusive.

so oreo is innocent until proven guilty

KBell
08-13-2002, 04:42 PM
true....true.... but oreo should stop wasting his time arguing and start modeling some more.... this is just pointless to argue about identical models

oddjob: A-Team
08-13-2002, 04:44 PM
Why don't you post the first shots you posted again? The ones that you so convieniently took down. So everybody can see in even MORE detail how it's just a rip off of the HL model. The once from before your 'tweaks'.

Sure, you can do little changes to make it look a little different. Add the hands from a Jedi Knight model, make the breasts bigger, shorten the heel on the boots, add the little crappy looking hair hanging down in her face, and fit the model to the JKII skeleton but the basic underlying mesh is the same. Look at the head. Every polygon is in exactly the same position and is exactly the same relative size.

If you can't see it, then perhaps trust a real modeler.

oddjob: A-Team
08-13-2002, 04:47 PM
It's only pointless if you aren't the one being ripped off. If it were YOUR model being ripped off then perhaps you would be sining a different tune.

Hell, this whole thing might not even be an issue if he would just contact the original author. He's pretty cool and probably wouldn't mind it being converted to JKII. But the right thing to do is ask.

KBell
08-13-2002, 04:48 PM
"if you cant see it,then perhapes trust a real modeler



are you questioning to authentisity of this model.... or if someone a REAL modeler??

hmmmmm confused i am

oreo
08-13-2002, 04:51 PM
......wut ur saying is over the limits... so ie. u can also say: o that anakin model, u just moved a few verts, turned some faces, made somethings bigger, added this, added that blah blah blah...
and ya i still have those pics b4 the tweak and they still look very diff... and ya i trust experenced modelers, let them come and see... u believe wutever u want to believe, just as long as u stop acuusing ppl... and i am definately innocent...

KBell
08-13-2002, 04:57 PM
EVERYBODY stop this please!!!

K-Man has a right to shut this thread down seeing as there hasnt been any updates for a while and NONE of this talk is about the progress of this model... its just about who copied what from whom.

So Oreo, if you want this thread to die, fine, but STOP ARGUING for the sake of humanity *takes a breath*

If you guys wanna continue arguing, do it in PMs, not in a modeling thread

oreo
08-13-2002, 04:57 PM
and pls stop saying i ripped u off cuz i didnt... btw how old r u...

i wanted to stop but he keeps comming with even more ridiculous accusations

oddjob: A-Team
08-13-2002, 05:22 PM
My accusation hasn't changed at all. It's still the same one. You downloaded a model that was released for gameplay use ONLY and passed it off as your own work. That's it. There hasn't been any other accusations.

As for your example of the Anakin model, I have addressed that already. But for the slow people here it is again:

There is a difference between models 'looking' similar becuase they are based on the same subject matter, and models that are GEOMETRICALLY similar because they came from the same base model. If you can't understand that, then you really don't know anything about modeling. Two models can look similar because they are based on the same material, in your example, Anakin. But there are as many ways to go about making a model as there are modelers. So each model, while similar in look in a general sense, they are different when you look at their underlying geometery.

But in the case of oreo's trinity's model, the similarities are on a GEOMETRIC level. That doesn't happen becuase you are modeling the same thing. That ONLY happens if you copied or used the original model. And ANYBODY that has a decent grasp of modeling knows what I am talking about. And they could also see that I am not just making baseless accusations. I HAVE presented evidence. More than enough to most modeleres I might add.

As for not arguing this here, that's nonsense. He's the one that declared publicly that the model was his work and it is in this same public forum that he should be proved to be a theif and a liar.

It's only a matter of time until some other modelers come in here an cooborate what oreo and I already know and further make him look the fool. He could just admit it now, but he chooses to keep up the lie instead. He keeps posting new, more modified versions of the HL model and doens't post the originals, the ones he removed from the first post, that really prove my case. Why is that? You can see the low poly 'mitten' hands and the high heel shoes and everything. But even with all his modifications, you can STILL tell it's the same model, just modified.

Belive me, I do not make this accusation lightly. I would not be posting here if I were not 100% sure, beyond ANY doubt that he stole that model.

KBell
08-13-2002, 05:28 PM
so why not take this argument up to PMs??

You shouldnt bother the community by interupting someone's thread... if you believed that this was someones model, well then PM him and tell him.. these forums are for showing progress, which is what Oreo has been doing..

Im not saying he stole the Model... and im not saying he didnt.. i just think that we should all get on with out lives and keep on modeling... If its that big of a problem to you... well then take it up with K-Man

KBell
08-13-2002, 05:31 PM
oh and Oreo... i dont think age matters in these forums... only productivity.

Twisted Vertex
08-13-2002, 05:37 PM
hmm, I decdied to participate int his thread, becasue I also feel that the models are too much indentical.

couple of questions

What modeling program are you using?

why did you take the orginail pics down?

why did you choose that particular outfit?

KBell
08-13-2002, 05:41 PM
Well, glad you could join this great big flame war Musahi... your basically the only person on this thread that i actually respect :p so i guess ill just sit back and se if Oreo ever responds to and replys

Twisted Vertex
08-13-2002, 05:50 PM
Glad to be aboard, sir. Ok now your probably thinking. What a werid question to be asking, on what modeling program he is using. Surely though somebody who CREATED this model from scratch would be able to enlighten us on a few things.

The torso section use two materials. The cream color and the black color from the shirt. Just curious if you could enighten us on how you managed this effect.

I know it sounds silly, but if you truly made this model from scracth then you have the knowledge to perform such a task. Becasue i noticed even in your beinnning stages of the model, you included the clothing. Why in such an early stage of the model, would you include the materials?

KBell
08-13-2002, 05:54 PM
and the wait for an answer from oreo........BEGINS

Toonces
08-13-2002, 06:00 PM
I have a great amount of respect for oddjob, even though I beleive I've never spoken to him. His work speaks volumes.

There are a few things that havent been mentioned that really make it obvious. The sunglasses are in exactly the same position, and the stem is the same width and legnth. The posture is also a dead giveaway, I dont think I could get it that close, even if I had the wireframe sitting right in front of me. The ears are another dead giveaway, the shape, position, size, all the same. It seems like some verts could have been easily pushed around then a meshsmooth modifier added. 4473 is a redicliously high polycount for such a simple model

I dont know Oreo, and I really dont know Oddjob either, but being familiar with Oddjobs work, and knowing how difficult it would be to get an origional model that close would be quite a feat. All I'm saying is that it looks very suspicious

Toonces
www.drivingcatstudios.com
Powered by Sith :lightning

KBell
08-13-2002, 06:10 PM
ya scared the kid away.... looks like another hoax....

Emon
08-13-2002, 08:40 PM
1. Oddjob is correct.

2. Your poly count is way off for that model.

striderx2048
08-13-2002, 08:44 PM
solution:

start over

Mix_Master2k
08-13-2002, 09:58 PM
holy crap, well that was quite....ummm. it was quite. Is anyone reeaaally doing a model of trinity? Is anybody stealing and converting? is anybody not responding to other peoples questions (cough cough OREO cough a hem ::clears throat:: sorry)

oreo
08-14-2002, 12:57 AM
1) i didnt run away... dude i have to sleep...
2) i used max 4.2
3) the torson only has 1 material so u were wrong... i just used 'smoothing groups' and set them to be the same... if u dont believe me try to create a sphere and set its polys to have the same smoothing group...
4) my first posts WERE NOT material colors... they were simply OBJECT COLORS... and therefore thats also y it dindt look 'smooth'
also i saw in alot of other posts for eg the fat bastard post he also included colors in early stages, dont see anything wrong about that...
5) u were rite i did take the hands, shades and ears from someone (someon gave them to me) else but i dont see how theres anything wrong about that since they were insignificant parts and most models look the same on those
6) i still dont understand how my 'geometry' is 'exactly the same' as urs cuz obviously it isnt... if u dont believe ill post a wireframe pic later on and ALONG with the original pics...
7) i took original pics down in the first place cuz i had limited bandwidth and space and dindt want ppl to just look on the first page and see the first progress as the newest ones r on the last page ( i realized that ppl wont read and they just looked to the first pics and saw it wasnt that great and then not comment on it)
8) if u read the request thread u would know y i chose that outfit
9) my poly is off? damn some idiot b4 told me kyle has 4.5k polys
10) the shades r in the same position? i dont think so... i tried to match em up, and magically yes for some reason they were relative in size and shape very close (maybe the original creator also didnt make his own shades as these 'assesories' can be easily downloaded) but mine is still diff cuz i modified it, and they R NOT THE SAME WIDTH AND LENGTH the distace from the eye to the ear r not even the same...
11) the face looks very diff IMO i dunno how u can say it looks the same
12) how the hell can the posture be a 'dead giveaway' almost every model ive seen stands in the same way, and mine fits perfectly to the skeleton... 'shape, position, size, etc' R NOT THE SAME I HAVE NO IDEAD HOW U GOT THAT, if u looked at side view and front view the sizes r VERY different, and i spent ALOT of time making the torson and the legs almost IDENTICAL to the original Trinity based the on large number of refs i used
13) pls also help me explain as i mentioned b4 how the 2 jarjar models can look almost exactly the same but made by 2 diff people (just as an example that things like that can happen, PLUS not even mentionaing my models poly structure is compeltely diff, as ull see in the pics ill post later)
14) yes im more than happy to answer any 'how i did that' questions as i DID make the model and i know wut i did...

oreo
08-14-2002, 12:59 AM
o and if u sersiously think i 'stole' ur model ive already contacted the original modeler that made ur HL model... if neccessary ill just remake her...

oreo
08-14-2002, 01:26 AM
HERE R THE GOD DAMN WIREFRAME PICS COMPARE THEM...

model u claimed i 'stole' : http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinragewire.jpg

MY MODEL:
http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinwire4.jpg

oreo
08-14-2002, 01:33 AM
TH DAMN ORIGNAL PICS!
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinback3.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinfnt3.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trintop3.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinside3.jpg

oddjob: A-Team
08-14-2002, 01:52 AM
Ok, how about posting a pic of it WITHOUT the laughably obvious mesh smooth modifier?

What's funny now is the more you try to give reasons for it looking similar but not being the same model, the more obvious it is to anybody that actually understands modeling.

You just took the ears and sunglasses? Two incredibly simple things to model but you had to get them from 'somebody'?

And to top it all off, you even bothered to do the right thing and contact the original modeler, supposedly. Although, I never posted any contact info. So where did you happen to get it from? Let me guess... The readme that originally CAME with the model. The same one that probably says not to use it with out giving him credit?

Now, if you would just admit it and get on with life. You know, one of the nice things about the internet is that you are fairly anonymous. You could just go away for a while, change your name and in the mean time actually LEARN how to model rather than just modify, and then come back as a totaly new person with work that is actually yours and nobody will care. But keeping this fatally obvious lie up is just digging you deeper and deeper.

oddjob: A-Team
08-14-2002, 01:57 AM
Originally posted by oreo
TH DAMN ORIGNAL PICS!
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinback3.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinfnt3.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trintop3.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinside3.jpg

HAHA! Those aren't the originals and you know it. Why are you lying if the model is actually yours? The originals still had the mittened hands and the ones after that had the JKII hands but they had that import bug that makes all the normals inverted. These pics are the 3rd generation of screenshots. Hell, they are even labeled trinback3 trinfnt3, etc.

More proof that those aren't the originals is right there in Kman's post. You can't edit that out thankfully.
digits to her club hands, etc.

So why not show the pics that he was refering to? Or how about the ones YOU were refering to when you posted:
btw if anyone of u expert modelers can tell me, theres a problem with the hands, im sure that the hand attaches to the forearm perfectly but for some reason part of it seems to be invisible making it look like theres a gap in between anyone know wut the problem might be? anyways here r the pics:

=============================
DRAG THE LINKS TO YOUR ADDRESS BAR
=============================

page 2 for newest model update


Which you so convieniently edited out. But you couldn't edit ALIEN_JL's message either. So you can see the original links, even though you took down the pic's to destroy the evidence.


Why don't you get it thorught you thick skull that the jig is up. You can't possibly pull off this sort of thing in anway. The modeling community is too damn small for somebody not to notice.

Emon
08-14-2002, 02:13 AM
Originally posted by oreo
HERE R THE GOD DAMN WIREFRAME PICS COMPARE THEM...

model u claimed i 'stole' : http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinragewire.jpg

MY MODEL:
http://oreo8.netfirms.com/trinwire4.jpg

Dude, it's the same thing, except with the arms/legs placed differently, JO hands tacked on and a completely obvious smooth mesh.

oreo
08-14-2002, 06:02 AM
1) its not a mesh smooth i never applied any mesh smooth cuz someone told me it wasnt a good idea(if u actually go and read the first page instead of saying how i took off the pics on teh first posts to 'get rid of evidence', which i wasnt cuz its completely logical to take them off given my limited bandwidth), i smoothed it manualy by hand... and ur such a f-ucking liar cuz u can so obviously tell that mesh smooth doenst smooth polygons the way mine look like...
2) uhh i downloaded the model u gave me and found out who made it... how hard is that...
3) im still waiting for his reply
4) the 3 ones r the only ones i have left... i dont keep all of them...
5) yes those parts were easy to model, but y bother if there r accessories to download
6) EVEN IF i did use that model as base, WTF makes u think i wont contact the author or give him credit
7) IF he said i can use it (even tho i never did)and i can continue my work ITS STILL MY MODEL... im not ripping him off and releasing it wihtout giving him credit... i would only have used his as a reference, the poly constuction itself is so diff that it can just be counted as a seperate original model
8) u still havent answered any of the questions i asked u about the jarjar models and y the f-uck do u think my poly constuction looks so diff if i did 'copy the exact model without changing a thing'
9) im planning on neo and morpheus after trinity now u tell me where the f-uck do u think i will 'copy' those.....
10) even tho given circumstances above u cant say the model is not original because the poly construction itself is unique, u said so urself, its the constuction and how the modeler models it that make the models diff...

oreo
08-14-2002, 06:03 AM
and emon i dont know wuts wrong with ur eyes but THOSE R NOT THE SAME WIREFRAME .... WTF .... my poly constuction is so obviouisly different...

oreo
08-14-2002, 06:30 AM
kman if u wish u can close this thread or do wutever u want if ur reading this, i will start a new one without all these BS once i get my reply from that 'original author'

oddjob: A-Team
08-14-2002, 10:49 AM
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinwireproof.jpg

The most obvious thing is labeled 'A' in the pic linked to above. Why would you model the tank-top INTO the model? For the HL version there was an obvious reason, namely the chrome shading effect. Each polygon that you would want to have that effect would need to have the same material. You can't paint half a polygon and have the other half chromed. Which is why the tank top was modeled into the mesh. But for some reason, even with your pathetic attempt at meshsmoothing, you modeled yours in EXACTLY the same way. Why is that? With a game like JKII you don't need to model in something that you can do with the skin by just painting it in.(be careful, there really is no answer to this as any modeler will tell you, that WON'T incriminate you)

'B' and 'C' are just examples of lines that are not hidden by the mesh smooth. See, the mesh smooth modifier doesnt' change the underlying geometry, it just adds geometry to round out hard edges. So the lines that are there in the lower poly version you stole from are still in the mesh smoothed one you posted a pic of. I provided examples of two obvious ones. Anybody can see plenty more.

http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinwireproof2.jpg

In this pic, what the hell did you add that little box for? In exactly the same place? And why is it missing from the mesh smoothed wireframe pic you posted?

Oh, look what I just found!!!! On page two of this thread. Twins of Doom was kind enough to link to the second versions of your renders. How nice. Here they are again for all to see:

http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinbak2.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trintop2.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/trinfnt2.jpg
http://jkhq.ath.cx/lucasforums/triside2.jpg

These are the ones I refered to above with the JKII hands with an import bug causing the hands to have their normals inverted.

Here are a few shots I whipped up as FURTHER proof.

http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinproof3.jpg

This is just the HL model mesh, and "oreo's mesh" side by side. You can see the facets on "oreo's" line up perfectly with the wireframe from the HL model with the exception of a few verts he pushed, like the one between the breasts.

http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trinity/trinproof4.jpg

And here is the same two pic's with the wiremesh overlayed on top of "oreo's mesh" with the wire mesh slowly fading away. You can CLEARLY see from these that they are the same model. The heads are EXACTLY the same shape. The vast majority of the mesh lines up perfectly.

What's funny is that you could have just admitted it on page three and saved a little face by asking the ACTUAL author right after I let you know the jig was up. But you have to keep pushing and pushing and pushing and making yourself look more the fool every post. GET IT THROUGH YOU HEAD, YOU HAVE BEEN EXPOSED.

oddjob: A-Team
08-14-2002, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by oreo
kman if u wish u can close this thread or do wutever u want if ur reading this, i will start a new one without all these BS once i get my reply from that 'original author'

Oh, and why bother getting the original authors reply if I am not right? Just admit you stole it and save some face.

Mix_Master2k
08-14-2002, 11:05 AM
hmmmm....hard to see the dark side is, no its not, its rather clear with oddjobs investigation that they are the same model. point, set, and match, winner oddjob. good job odd job

Darth Vigrid
08-14-2002, 11:12 AM
Come one oreo, you are obviously lying. These last 2 posts by oddjob offer definetive proof. There is no way you would be able to create a model so geometrically equivalent to the HL one. Perhaps you tried to create a Neo model from scratch, gave up, then decided to steal the Trinity. Stunts like this is what causes good modelers to leave this forum. Just admit defeat.

oddjob: A-Team
08-15-2002, 03:27 AM
Wow, still no reply.

Andy867
08-15-2002, 03:45 AM
you know, its actually possible, but the chances are very slim, the only time i have seen this done was during the creation of the Episode 1 map... this one guy was going to make amovie accurate version, and when he saw LivingDeadJedis, he swore he was looking at his own version... pretty spooky stuff, seeing as how the guy had NEVER released anything, and we all know how good LDJ is at mapping...

oreo
08-15-2002, 05:50 AM
yes he still hasnt replied yet... i wonder if he is still using the address he posted on his site

oreo
08-15-2002, 05:52 AM
o and that part A... there IS an answer to that... a pretty obvious one too... im amazed u cant figure that out... since u seem to be such a 'great' modeler those parts are for the torso... and the arm... JK2 uses those parts for dismemberment... and u MUST have those parts as different things...

o and i wont be answering anymore things until i get response from that guy, im only doing this so u would shut up, i dont even care about wut u say u can believe wutever u want, but if i can get that guy to shut u up then fine ill do it... o and more about part A, they r not the same size, not the same angle, and not the same radius and not even the same shape... and this is the last time im gonna repeat i never used any mesh smooth unless ur dumb or something if u want try to apply a god damn meshsmooth to that model of urs and look at wut meshsmooth would really make it look like... and as usual u failed to reply to any of my questions as well as understanding the fact that EVEN IF i got permission its still my model, itll just have credits for that guy...

Grafox
08-15-2002, 06:42 AM
OMFG, after reading the whole thread twice, I can't stop laughing at you oreo. Even after Oddjob has posted the wireframe-overlays you still won't admit you stole it with out asking the original author for persmission to use it.

I really don't like people like you.

oddjob: A-Team
08-15-2002, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by oreo
o and that part A... there IS an answer to that... a pretty obvious one too... im amazed u cant figure that out... since u seem to be such a 'great' modeler those parts are for the torso... and the arm... JK2 uses those parts for dismemberment... and u MUST have those parts as different things...


So, you are going to have the arm and torso separate EXACTLY on the tank top edge? Is that your story? First of all it's a curved edge. So you decided that when the light saber cuts off her arm. it's going to magically follow the edge of the tank top, curving at the bottom. When every other model had a fairly flat plane as the cap. And why did you build the cut point between in there for just the arm/torso from the earliest versions and none of the others? Especially when you stated on page two about 2/3 of the way down that you hadn't started capping them yet? Heh... I told you not to answer that one.


Look NOBODY belives you. And you look the fool more and more every time you post. Can't you see that?

It's best not to come to a battle of wits unarmed.

oddjob: A-Team
08-15-2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Andy867
you know, its actually possible, but the chances are very slim, the only time i have seen this done was during the creation of the Episode 1 map... this one guy was going to make amovie accurate version, and when he saw LivingDeadJedis, he swore he was looking at his own version... pretty spooky stuff, seeing as how the guy had NEVER released anything, and we all know how good LDJ is at mapping...

Sure, if you are looking a finished, textured map using the same subject matter, they SHOULD look so similar to each other because they SHOULD look like the subject matter. Especially if they are using all the same set of textures. But once you take the textures off and look at the basic wireframe in an editor, you would be able to see all the actual differences. Because it's more than unlikely that they both would place every vert in exactly the same place so that when you lined up the two maps they would match perfectly like oreo's model with the facets showing and the HL model. Dimentions would be slightly off, some geometry would extend further where it can't be seen, etc.

Same with a model.
Let me show you what I mean.

http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fetts.jpg

Here are two models both based on Jango Fett. On the left the Jango Fett model by Corto Maltés. On the right, the Mandolorian model by António "BloodRiot" Perestrelo & Tim "Absath" Buckley. Basicly look the same. The skins are a bit different, but not by much, but the models could be the same.

Here is a look at the two model meshes. This is where their true differences are totally apparent.
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fet_side_head.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fet_side.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fett_back.jpg
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/fett_front.jpg

Notice how in the side close up of the head, the heads are at two different angles. Look at the side shot. The calf on one model is back further than the other. The postures are different. Unlike oreo's and the HL model. The posture on those are exactly the same, especially the head. Notice how different the geometry in the chest area is constructed COMPLETELY different from each other. That goes for pretty much the whole thing actually. And the heads are slighly different shapes and constructed VERY differently.

I moved the jet packs off to the side so you could see the construction of the two models better. You can see that the models are plainly different models with nothing but the barest resembalence when textured in common. This is what happens when two modelers make models using the same subject matter but arrive at the same goal using their own personal techniques, and artistic vision and sense of dimention. They make basically different models that look generally the same when textured. Just like your map example, and just like oreo's Jar Jar and Anakin examples.

If oreo actually made that model the two models should look at least that different. AT LEAST. You don't accidently make models that look that similar EVER. It just doens't happen. Even if you learned from the same teacher or the same book or tutorial.

What oreo is doing is so obvious it's not even funny.

ET Warrior
08-15-2002, 01:12 PM
Yeah, Sorry Oreo, but it's really pretty obvious that those models are the same......you should probably back down now methinks....

striderx2048
08-15-2002, 06:58 PM
Screwed, you are, Oreo.

leXX
08-16-2002, 08:31 AM
Does this mean I don't get my Trinity model? :crybaby:

KBell
08-16-2002, 09:42 AM
wow, after reading this thread i never realized how stupid i am at modeling :p

.....so much to learn......so little time....

oreo
08-16-2002, 10:35 AM
lexx dont worry u will, i just need to resolve this quickly... and i still insist that the model's geometry r not the same, i will take screenshots later on once i get this over with to show the 2 trinity models infact do have the amount of difference that the jango models had... u r prolly blind if u cant see it... also about the caps... uhh i did model the seperate SEGMENTS since the beginning.. CAPPING simply means sealing the ends of the SEGMENTS u retard... just cuz they r the same object color doesnt mean they r the same segment...

o and i am still working on her, just not a public WIP once i can confirm the permission i will post a new WIP, also if i cant reach him, there wont be any other way(unless someone can give me a direct way to contact him) then ill just give him credit for the model which should still be released

NemoX
08-16-2002, 10:52 AM
Help me to understand Oreo, you keep saying that you did not steal the HL model, you say that it is an original model by you, then why are u trying to get the permission of the creator of the HL model if this is your model, and why would you give him credit for your model?

It's pretty obvious you are taking credit for someone elses work, and you refuse to apologize for it, even though Oddjob has proved conclusively your model is the same as the HL model.

oddjob: A-Team
08-16-2002, 11:06 AM
Anything you do now is too little, too late. You can try and make future version more and more different(although I doubt your ability as a modeler to be able to actually DO that. I'd bet I could still find a way to prove it no matter how much work you did) it's the earlier versions that count. Sure, eventually, you could make the two models look as different as the Jango Fett models. EVENTUALLY. But that won't change the past. They are still the same model from the beginning. Any changes you make now just make you look like you are trying to hide the fact that you stole the model. Especially when you continue to ignore the fact that I am obviously not talking about future versions that are yet to be modified.

also about the caps... uhh i did model the seperate SEGMENTS since the beginning.. CAPPING simply means sealing the ends of the SEGMENTS u retard... just cuz they r the same object color doesnt mean they r the same segment...

I don't even know what you are trying to say here. Of COURSE the caps are just the ends of the segments. I never said otherwise. But you failed to address why you made the torso/arm segments separate exactly on the tank top line. You specifically ignored what my ACTUAL argument was and attacked something that I didn't even argue at all. That's called a 'Straw Man' fallacy. And for all you people out there that haven't taken a logic class, a fallacy is, it's a defect in an argument arising from some source other than merely false premise. That particular type of fallacy, the 'Straw Man' fallacy is one where the arguer distorts the other persons argument and attacks the distorted version rather than the ACTUAL arguement. What oreo has just done is a classic example. Another example of it in this exchange is when he continues to provide 'proof' using later, more modified versions of the model while ingoring the fact that the earlier versions are what are exactly the same and where I am basing my arguments.

And to oreo again: If you release that model without his permission, then it's just as bad as if you didn't bother admit you stole the model. Either get his permission or don't release it. And just because you WILL try to, I am going to provide a link to this thread to every JKII model host I can find and show them why they shouldn't host any models made by you. What you are doing is WRONG. Plain and simple.

Denial, it's not just a river in Egypt.

KBell
08-16-2002, 11:09 AM
my eyes hurt from reading so much :p

How r u able to type sooooo much without passing out oddjob?
I guess you r a god :p

oddjob: A-Team
08-16-2002, 11:15 AM
I learned to type fast while playing 1st person shooters online. You have to be quick to get a couple of insults in without dying back in the Q2 days. :)

BakerS8er said:
"if you cant see it,then perhapes trust a real modeler



are you questioning to authentisity of this model.... or if someone a REAL modeler??

hmmmmm confused i am

Now, hopefully you can see that I was both questinging the authentisity of his model AND if he was a real modeler. And when I said 'if you can't see it, then perhaps trust a real modeler' I was refering to me and any other modeler of note that happens to read this thread. And there have been a few. And they all agree with me. :)

KBell
08-16-2002, 11:17 AM
ohhh ok, cause i was thinkin you were questioning the people who were looking at this model and saying " they dont look the same" as fake modelers...... my bad

The things im gonna miss in these forums when i go back to school......

Twisted Vertex
08-16-2002, 12:40 PM
One day Odd-job might be a successful politican. Or some Owner of a very prosperous company. You have expectional debating skills, and you able to prove your point maturly without rows ***********************. Keep it up man.

KBell
08-16-2002, 12:55 PM
ya.... after reading this thread and painfully adjusting my vision, i dont think i have ever read a single reply from Odd Job that was BS. Everything he said actually made sense. Rather than him just cussing and saying pointless crap.

Great JOB Odd JOB

Twins of Doom
08-16-2002, 01:09 PM
sorry i haven't checked this post in awhile



but i was taking a close look at both wireframes...and i see a LOT of differences

the legs on the white is fatter
the whole white wireframe is a lot wider

the chest is also different in a lot of aspects between the two...it is hard to believe that anybody ever thought they were the same!



come on people, stop with the BS and let him make his damn model


if you aren't going to make a trinity model than shut the **** up and let those who actually are doing something get to work without having to put up with this BS

i don't know about you but i want matrix models for jk2
why are you trying to ruin the prospect of a matrix model for the rest of us!?!?

KBell
08-16-2002, 01:13 PM
we arent ruining it for the rest of you... He specifically stated he was still going to continue to model Trinity whether we thought it was a copy of not...so its not our fault

oddjob: A-Team
08-17-2002, 03:10 AM
Originally posted by Twins of Doom
but i was taking a close look at both wireframes...and i see a LOT of differences

the legs on the white is fatter
the whole white wireframe is a lot wider

the chest is also different in a lot of aspects between the two...it is hard to believe that anybody ever thought they were the same!

come on people, stop with the BS and let him make his damn model

if you aren't going to make a trinity model than shut the **** up and let those who actually are doing something get to work without having to put up with this BS

i don't know about you but i want matrix models for jk2
why are you trying to ruin the prospect of a matrix model for the rest of us!?!?

So you are just one of those completely self-centered, selfish people that doesn't care how they get something as long as you get it, right? You couldn't care less if the model was stolen or not, as long as you get your model. Screw the original author and every other real modeler that puts hours of their free time into their work, as long as you get your model. Nice attitude.

But some of us real modelers don't like the idea of what we do being cheapened by some hack that just takes somebody else's model and passes it off as their own. It truely baffles me how people can have your attitude. Almost more than it baffles me how oreo can do what he's doing. Nobody should get any Matrix model if the only way it can be obtained is by theivery and lying. But you seem not to care as long as you get what you want. There is a word for that type of person: sociopath. A person without concience. Is that you? Do you honestly have no sense of right and wrong?

On top of that, the reasons you gave for them not looking alike completely miss my points. It's as if you haven't even read the thread. You can push and pull verts and turn edges here and there but, to the trained eye of a modeler, it's obvious that they are the same. What you suggest makes them different is as simple as scaling a few verts or even moving a few. And it doesn't change the underlying construction.

I am not talking about the basic shape. Or how one is fatter than the other or thicker in some parts. The things you sugges that make them look different aren't even a part of my arguement so don't even need to be considered by anybody. I am talking about how each vert lines up with the next creating edges of each polygon, and in turn each polygon being a certain shape and a certain size and a certain place. THAT'S what those models have in common. I am talking about how the general posture is exactly the same. The tilt of the head, the shape of the head, etc. That's what makes them the same model. If you honestly can't comprehend the case that I have laid out, then perhaps you are not qualified enough to comment, to which I suggest that you get a good, talented, and KNOWLEGABLE modeler you trust to come here and review this entire thread and then trust his judgement.

Here's some MORE pictures illustrating my point.

http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/triside2.jpg

Are you honestly going to tell me that the fact that oreo's is 'fatter' makes them totally different models?

Here, have a closer look at the head:
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trisideclose.jpg
And here is one where I added some red lines to really show you how they are EXACTLY THE SAME MODEL.
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/trisidecloselines.jpg

But, like I said. Don't trust me, as obviously you don't. Or maybe you do and just want the model no matter what.... But let's assume, that it's just a lack of trust and understanding. Ask any well known modeler from this community you like to come here and voice their opinion.

dreddnott
08-17-2002, 03:21 AM
Ouch. Talk about losing respect for certain people!

If anybody can successfully defend oreo at this point (seeing as he's obviously completely, absolutely incapable of being coherent on his own), I will be extremely impressed!

oreo
08-17-2002, 03:46 AM
umm i wasnt attacking a part that u didnt argue about... if u actually read i already answered u about y i did the segments like that cuz its the TORSO and the ARM... and i specifically made sure the joint between the torso and the arm was a perfect flat circle so that it would cap properly... but u decided to assume everything(that i didnt segment other parts and that the joint was wrong to be able to be capped) and argued that i should not have done that which is total BS... because the torso is suppose to be that way... and also i already answered y im contacting the author its so i can shut him up, if contacting him and officially giving credit to that guy as my 'base model referece' can shut him up then so be it, i just need to get this done with so i can work on my other 2 matrix models

oreo
08-17-2002, 04:56 AM
while i was thinking about this some interesting thought came up... i assume most modelers here start with primitives when modeling, and then u start manipulating verts, edges, polys etc to craft ur model out, so basically every model would start with a basic type of primitive shape that look more or less the same, can u say then that the models' 'underlying construction' (as oddjob like to put it)r all the same and therefore stolen? if for eg someone downlaoded a simple file that included a basic primitive built shape, and out of it he modeled something that looks completely different and released it to the public, then have that person stolen the model just cuz the 'underlying construction' was not his own? even tho given the fact that the outcome was a completely original prodcut? now lets assume that i 'stole'(as oddjob like to assume) the model from that guy and used it as a 'primitive' built base model, and then modified it to be a competely different and ORIGINAL model structure, i dont see how that would be stealing EVEN IF thats wut i did... infact alot of things in everyday life works that way...
heres a comparison pic that I HAVE... instead of looking at oddjob's obvious biased views, i really dont see how this model cant be an original item given the amount of difference and the OUTCOME of it...

http://oreo8.netfirms.com/compare.jpg

Frumpus
08-17-2002, 05:01 AM
Originally posted by oreo
. .. and also i already answered y im contacting the author its so i can shut him up, if contacting him and officially giving credit to that guy as my 'base model referece' can shut him up then so be it, i just need to get this done with so i can work on my other 2 matrix models

I don't understand:


Originally posted by oreo
.
"i decided to start something fresh and i bring u Trinity! OMG! she was WAY easier to model than Neo for some reason, prolly cuz i didnt include trenchcoat. Note this is my VERY FIRST model EVER,"

"cool i think ive seen that b4... but i dont think my model looks like it at all... maybe they look a bit alike (afterall she IS trinity)but i think mines way more detailed and accurate... once i release the model then ull see..."

"r u accusing me of stealing models!!! WTF!!!!!! u know theres also like a few diff anakins out there r u saying then they stole each other's models !!! dont accuse ppl u idiot!!!!!!!"



I didn't realize this "plagiarism issue" when I posted my constructive criticism earlier in the thread. I recall you offering your "thanks" for my perspective, oreo.

It boils down to this:
Either:
1. you created the model from scratch (as you originally claimed), and are being unjustly lambasted for plagiarism, yet now want to offer credit to an author of a completely different model - just so that a vocal "thorn in your side" will be silenced.

2. you used somebody else's model as a "base", then tweaked, and pulled and added the verts to come up with something altered (and you deliberately intended to deceive the community).


If #1 is true, Oreo, I encourage you NOT to "cave" on your position just to "shut somebody up". That would be lame to "people-please" in this manner, plus you'd appear guilty AND too prideful to admit your faults. If you really DID create this model from scratch, then stick to your guns, man. :)

If #2 is true, on the other hand, and you STILL won't just lay down your pride enough to admit you lied from the beginning, I have lost all respect for you.

I'm a NEWBIE modeller, and the evidence is even plain to me: . . . it seems to prove beyond reasonable doubt that #2 is true: Even though you purported in the beginning to create this model from scratch, and vehemently denied that you used a "base model", now you are changing your story to "save face" in the midst of strong confrontation and weasel out of a straight out admission of guilt.
If true, this would show that:
you do not see stealing as morally wrong,
you do not feel bad about lying to the community,
you really do not respect the community enough to sincerely apologize.
you are as yet unrepentant.


I thought about just keeping my mouth shut and letting things happen - without my interferrence. I realized that would be the same as seeing someone shoplifting and not telling the authorities.

This EXACT SAME scenario happened to me in my Grade 10 Computer Literacy course - ": I made a picture of a Corvette for an assignment - and it was pretty good (over a decade ago back when Amiga's were a "hot item"). Later, I saw MY model on some other girl's screen, and she was trying to pass it off as her OWN work. Later it was proven to be mine, and she STILL would not even apologize. If she had asked me, I probably wouldn't have had a problem with letting her use it (although the teacher would have!) .. .She tried to cheat. And then she tried to lie about it. And then she didn't want to lose her pride in the midst of proof. I remember how RIPPED off I felt as the creator.

If this is all a misunderstanding, and you've been telling the truth the whole time, then I'm truly sorry (in advance) for all the trouble you've gone through.

I just don't buy it, though.

oreo
08-17-2002, 05:08 AM
pls make sure u read my newest post b4 this one b4 ANYONE post any reply

Toonces
08-17-2002, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by Frumpus

2. you used somebody else's model as a "base", then tweaked, and pulled and added the verts to come up with something eltered (and you deliberately intended to deceive the community)

Sums it up.

Could somebody just close this thread? It's getting rediclious and sad

Grafox
08-17-2002, 05:24 AM
Originally posted by oreo
now lets assume that i 'stole'(as oddjob like to assume) the model from that guy and used it as a 'primitive' built base model, and then modified it to be a competely different and ORIGINAL model structure, i dont see how that would be stealing

Well, that's pretty much what stealing is.

oreo
08-17-2002, 05:45 AM
ok so grafox so u r saying that everyone who uses primitives and/or basic made shapes steals? cuz thats the scenerio i was using

oreo
08-17-2002, 05:46 AM
and o yes KMAN pls close this thread! its getting ridiculous arguing

Grafox
08-17-2002, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by oreo
ok so grafox so u r saying that everyone who uses primitives and/or basic made shapes steals? cuz thats the scenerio i was using

no no no,
The primitives you create in max (ea sphere, box) you create yourself using the create menu. Altering someone elses mesh and then passing it off as your own is stealling.

oreo
08-17-2002, 05:56 AM
forget it u dont get my point

Frumpus
08-17-2002, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by oreo
". . . i assume most modelers here start with primitives when modeling, ... i dont see how that would be stealing EVEN IF thats wut i did... oddjob's obvious biased views, i really dont see how this model cant be an original item given the amount of difference and the OUTCOME of it...

http://oreo8.netfirms.com/compare.jpg


Ack! Oreo, you are digging your own grave even further.

What you are supposing with this post is ridiculous. It's as if I tried to use ANY book in published form, edit it, then try to pass it of as my own creation . . . .on the basis that: "Well, we both used the same alphabet ("primitives") to create the words and the same grammar system to construct the sentences, so. . . I didn't "really" plagiarize, did I?"

Try to get a competent lawyer to take on your case when the copyright lawsuit comes to your door. Look hard.


I don't believe the evidence WAS biased in any way. Bias refers to prejudice, and it's clear Odd-job "post-judged" - after taking a good look at concerns he had. Calling him names doesn't lessen their potency.


"Bias" will probably come when you try to release your NEXT model - when people in the community "pre-judge" that you may not FULLY author your work from scratch. ;)

Toonces
08-17-2002, 06:09 AM
The "ridiculous and sad" part was in refrence to this charade that you have gone on about for the past few pages. Just go ask for the origional authors premission (which I doubt he'll give you if he reads this thread) and be done with it already

Sometimes I wish I was a moderator

oreo
08-17-2002, 06:10 AM
hmm... the dark side i sense in u... lol j/k
ya wutever, i already restarted from scratch... all older files have been delted if this time u still say i copy then i have nothing to say...

Grafox
08-17-2002, 06:31 AM
Originally posted by oreo
i already restarted from scratch... all older files have been delted

sure you have :rolleyes:

Frumpus
08-17-2002, 06:53 AM
Originally posted by oreo
. . . ya wutever, i already restarted from scratch... all older files have been delted if this time u still say i copy then i have nothing to say...


*sigh* What do you mean, "this time"?! I don't think this is the point anymore. Your credibility on the CURRENT Trinity model is what's at stake; it's a TRUST issue now, and a RESPECT one. Who wants to see a liar weasel out of consequences?. . . Not me.

It's too late to simply start a NEW model without FIRST admitting guilt; don't you realize this? Don't expect people to forget the first (and "suspect") model just becuase you "start fresh" on a new one, dude.


It's just so obviously clear from the progression of your posts that you are trying to focus on rationalizing "why" what you did is ok (hypothetically, of course, right? ;) . . . AND trying

You CAN'T have it both ways, dude.

Either own up to a lie you made in the beginning (and the lies that followed),
or (if you REALLY aren't guilty of lying), then stop talking like your last thread, making it sound as if "all models are fair game as long as they look different enough when you're finished tweaking them."

By the way you're handling the focus of this thread, you pour the appearance of guilt on your own head.

Rekked
08-17-2002, 08:51 AM
I must say this is the most incredible thread i've ever read....

:eek: :eek: :eek

I have no words for what you've done, oreo. I will never ever eat your cookies...

wait, this has not got to be funny!

*slaps himself in the face*

After all the stupid and fake reasons we've all heard why you didn't steal the mesh, I can only say that no work from you will be downloaded to my computer, ever.

And for Oddjob, i must say this is the closest experience to the Colombo series i've ever seen!
:D :D :D
Great job man! Your knowledge of modelling is quite impresive. Congratulations, Mr. Poirot!

oddjob: A-Team
08-17-2002, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by oreo
while i was thinking about this some interesting thought came up... i assume most modelers here start with primitives when modeling, and then u start manipulating verts, edges, polys etc to craft ur model out, so basically every model would start with a basic type of primitive shape that look more or less the same, can u say then that the models' 'underlying construction' (as oddjob like to put it)r all the same and therefore stolen? if for eg someone downlaoded a simple file that included a basic primitive built shape, and out of it he modeled something that looks completely different and released it to the public, then have that person stolen the model just cuz the 'underlying construction' was not his own? even tho given the fact that the outcome was a completely original prodcut? now lets assume that i 'stole'(as oddjob like to assume) the model from that guy and used it as a 'primitive' built base model, and then modified it to be a competely different and ORIGINAL model structure, i dont see how that would be stealing EVEN IF thats wut i did... infact alot of things in everyday life works that way...
heres a comparison pic that I HAVE... instead of looking at oddjob's obvious biased views, i really dont see how this model cant be an original item given the amount of difference and the OUTCOME of it...

http://oreo8.netfirms.com/compare.jpg

Oreo, do you really think that any of the real modelers here won't notice even with this last picture?

Here it comes.... Watch this....

http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/compare.jpg
Ok, in this image, all I did was take your 'compare.jpg' that you linked to in the post I quoted and put two pic's on top for comparison.

A - is the HL model that you can download off the AHL modeling site and decomplile yourself in Milkshape.
B - is obviously the 'new model' that oreo says looks so different.
C - is supposedly the original that he took a picture of so he can show the differences between B and C and show that I am just being biased.
D - is a second generation screenshot that oreo posted himself as a WIP pic of his own work.

Now, take a look at A. You can download the model here:
http://www.heavenofrags.de/reviews/player/~AustinTrinityRage.html
Decompile it yourself if you do not belive me. With A you can see what the REAL original model looks like. Smaller breasts, no definition on the underside of the breasts(because the tank is streching across the cavity created by the two breasts), flat but, high heels on the boots.

Now look at C. Supposedly that's the 'original' HL model. Not his work but the work that I have been accusing him of stealing. But for some reason it bares more resembalance to the model in D, the screenshot of his own work. The breasts are bigger than the original model A. The but is rounder than in A. The breasts and butt look exactly like the model in D, HIS model by his own admission.

Look at the point I labeled 'e' on the C model. You can clearly see that the point between the breasts has been pushed up a bit to give some definition to the breasts(which makes no sense because she's wearing a paten leather tank top remember). But in the REAL original, that you can download for yourself, the breasts are not defined at all.

Here's a front shot of the real model and oreo's own screen shot from the front this time with 'e' again for reference:
http://home.attbi.com/~oddjob1138/img/compare_breasts.jpg

For some reason, oreo's 'unbiased' picture uses a model he claimed HE made to be the original. C is supposed to be the work of the original modeler yet it has all the changes that he made in oreo's early 'work' that he posted as screenshots early in this post. Including Twins of Doom's 'fatter' and 'thicker' parts. Yet is supposed to be oreo's model!

And the original model that anybody can download and decompile looks less 'fat' and less 'thick' that the one that oreo claims is the original.

OREO, YOU JUST USED A MODEL YOU SAID WAS YOUR OWN WORK AS THE ORIGINAL MODELERS!!!! YOU WEREN'T EVEN SMART ENOUGH TO DO A FRESH DECOMPILE BEFORE YOU MADE YOUR 'UNBIASED' SCREENSHOT!!!!!

What more proof does anybody need?

Give it up. Do as Frumpus said and save what little of your reputation is left by admitting what we both, and most everybody else that comes to this thread knows: You stole the model.

Oh, and I am not assuming. I KNOW.

KBell
08-17-2002, 12:00 PM
isnt he done YET........maybe K-Man should just close this thread seeing as Oreo aint respondin.....

oddjob: A-Team
08-17-2002, 12:07 PM
And get it through your head that there is NOTHING you can post or say that I can't use logic and evidence to rip apart. NOTHING. Why? Because I have the benefit of truth being on my side. You might be able to fool people that are not modelers or ignorant of real modeling techniques, like Twins of Doom, but you CAN'T fool real modelers.

And if my pics are biased, then what are they biased to? What motive to I have to just rip apart your model and call you a theif if it's not true? None. You just made the unfortunate choice to try to pull this crap on a board frequented by somebody very familiar with the model you passed off as your own. But then, that's the danger in lying. You might get caught.

And how can my pic's be 'biased' when they are just YOUR screenshots with some of my own pasted on top for side by side comparison? How exactly, precicely and specificly is that 'biased'? Could you please explain in great detail how that could be?

oddjob: A-Team
08-17-2002, 12:09 PM
Oh, he's been replying. Look at the times of his posts.

And Kman shouldn't close this thread until oreo admits he stole that model. If you don't like the thread, then don't read it. :)

KBell
08-17-2002, 12:12 PM
its not that i wont read it....its that i cant! my vision is practically destroyed thanks to you and your monsterious typings :p

oreo
08-17-2002, 12:39 PM
the sources we got the model from r different
there r 2 versions of trinityrage out there

Frumpus
08-17-2002, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by oreo
the sources we got the model from r different
there r 2 versions of trinityrage out there

Oreo, what do you mean by "sources... out there"? Do you mean A. pictures and reference art (2D)? Or do you mean B. a 3D "base model" (a file containing a collection of XYZ coordinates) which you used as a starting point, then made changes to, to come up with your "finished" model?

A. If by "sources" you mean just 2d art/concept ideas, then you just dug your own grave even further: Judging by how SIMILAR the different version of this Trinity are, . . . . it would be to YOUR ADVANTAGE to claim you used all the SAME reference art - to come up with SIMILAR looking models from scratch. However, as Odd-job showed us with he Fett models: when two DIFFERENT 3d artists do the SAME project from scratch,. . . the overall SHAPE of the outcome might be very similar, but the POLYGONS will have a completely different construction. It's especially easy to see this in low-poly models used for gaming.

OR

B. If, by "sources" you mean a "3D base model" already in female humanoid form, then what's this:?

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by oreo
"i decided to start something fresh and i bring u Trinity!"

"r u accusing me of stealing models!!! WTF!!!!!! u know theres also like a few diff anakins out there r u saying then they stole each other's models !!! dont accuse ppl u idiot!!!!!!!"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I believe we have the admision of guilt we've all been anticipating, except the contrite ("I'm sorry") attitude is missing; oreo still doesn't "get it" - that he deceived the community (or tried to); I really don't think he ever will. It appears he's desperate to weasel a way out of this WITHOUT ever coming right out and saying,
"I'm sorry. I was wrong. I should not have lied that the model was my own. I should not have lied when questioned about it. I should not have let things get to this stage."

I CERTAINLY used a "base model" to construct the bodies of three goblins you see here, http://jitd.fragland.net/php/upload/kram/3goblins.jpg and used it again for another elf-warrior model I'm working on. The difference is, I MADE THE "BASE MODEL" MYSELF!: http://jitd.fragland.net/php/upload/kram/July%2025%20elf%20&%20goblin.jpg . I used the verts from this she-elf model, then tweaked, and pulled, and divided, and turned edges to come up with the new ones.

This is different from what you did in a fundamental way. You claimed (in the beginning) to have made the whole model from scratch. (Albeit now you're changing your story.)

It is OK to do that with your OWN base models. It is NOT ok to do that with someone else's model, then LIE about - saying you made it yourself.