View Full Version : OLD - WIP: Masters of the Force

08-12-2002, 07:26 PM

I've unofficially cancelled Jedi Styles until Stellarwind shows back up. Until then, I'm starting a Mod in the same vain of trying to boost the realism of the game in general. The official title is Star Wars: Masters of the Force. I'm aiming for a two staged modification schedule. Stage One will involve reworking the game mechanics for more realism. Stage Two will involve adding a experience / leveling system to the game for a more flexible and fun game experience. Eventually, I'm aiming for a Mod capable of recreating the movie battles in a way that is as fun and realistic as possible.

Update 10/13/02: We've changed to a simple progressive implimentation plan. The design changes enough stuff that a multi-stage implimentation plan would require rewrites inbetween stages. :P

Help/Job Requirements

I will accept help in basically any area and experience level. The only ground rules I have are:

I have the final say on any aspect on the project but only to keep the project on track. :D
Documentation! Documentation! Documentation!
All reasonable effort will be made to properly credit anyone who contributes.
Use common sense.
Be nice.
Have fun. :)
You must have enough time to work on the Mod on a regular basis AND communicate frequently with the other of the staff.

Source Code

We've discussed being a Open Source Mod, and we've changed our policy on it. The game will no longer be open source. Instead, we're going with a source code "on request" system.

If you have an good or interesting use for the code, contact us. Depending on our opinion of the idea, we'll:
Let you have the code for PERSONAL USE ONLY.
Impliment your idea as the official release. With your help, of course. :)
Reject the idea.
After the team has gotten tired/bored/etc. of the project, we WILL open source the code to the community so others can continue our work if they wish.

We feel the community is currently being segmented by a continuous flow of cut-and-paste Mods. The community needs 4 different versions of JediMod like a sub needs a screen door. While most of these cut-and-paste Mods DO have their high points, they needlessly split the servers and members of the community. What we need is ONE version of each distinct Mod to keep the fragmentation down and that's what MotF is doing. :) In exchange for an non-open source project, we will try to be as openminded about new ideas as possible.

Final Thoughts

That's it. If you have any suggestions / complaints / bug reports / etc. please post them here, PM me, or email me or another member of the Mod's staff. Thank you.

As for the current status of ideas, work, etc. just tuned to this thread. :)

Copyright Note

Please don't rip ideas, source, etc. without my permission or until we officially release stuff as Open Source.

08-12-2002, 07:29 PM
The Team Assignment / Open Positions doc is located here (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/Motfteamassignments.doc).

If you're interested in truely beta testing the Mod before public releases, you need to contact me and be added to the team.

UPDATE: The Team Assignment Doc is out of date. Read at your own risk. :)

08-12-2002, 07:34 PM
A currect copy of the Design Document can be found here. (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/MotFdesigndoc.doc) This includes the actual Design Document and ideas / suggestions that people have had.

UPDATE: The Design Doc is out of date. We're too busy working on the mod to update it. If anyone is interested in doing some writing work to update and maintain all our documention, please contact me.

08-12-2002, 09:56 PM

08-13-2002, 01:04 AM
Should I take the lack of replies as....

Everyone is speechless at the glory of my design Doc.
Noone is here because of all the damn server trouble.
Noone cares / I suck.
D00d, h0w d0 I G3t t00 s@b3rs N J3Di M0D????!!!!!
All of the above


08-13-2002, 04:29 AM
Sounds impresive would this work in single player sorry i cant help to bussy with the Dark Forces 2 Jedi knight TC (http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63347)

08-13-2002, 04:37 AM
Thanks for replying. :)

As for a SP port, unless Raven releases the SP source code, I'm not even going to attempt to port it. If someone else wants to try it, I guess they could try if they asked.

08-13-2002, 07:49 PM
I just updated the Design Doc posted up at the top of the thread.

08-13-2002, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by razorace
Thanks for replying. :)

As for a SP port, unless Raven releases the SP source code, I'm not even going to attempt to port it. If someone else wants to try it, I guess they could try if they asked.
hey its cool i know what you meen about the sp sdk come on raven we want it

08-13-2002, 10:29 PM
Just made another update to the Design Doc.

We can still use whatever help the community can provide.

08-14-2002, 12:09 AM
Sounds interesting. Alot of work too. I'd help you out if I knew anything about programming, but unfornately, I don't. I wish I did I have alot of my own ideas I'd like to see turn into a mod.

Let me know if you need someone to help you beta test your mod though. I'd be glad to help. :)

08-14-2002, 02:45 AM
Great! I'll give you a PM to get the ball rolling. I could use help with design too. :)

08-14-2002, 03:50 AM
if you need a guy to bouce ideas off of and test things, I am your guy... I have to be one of the only ones who has heard of/likes jedi style...

also say the word, and in 30min EVERYBODY will know... I can get ahold of anyone, belive me:D

this new mod sounds WONDERFULL, and the only advice I have is:dont start too big, start on the small side.

also, people like previews. if they know about it, and like it, they will come back for more. think yoda model thread;)

hmm... A idea...

why not instead of powerups, you would pick your gun(if so inclined) off a point based menu, much like the current force menu?

also, maybe have some addons? like... I dont know.. scopes for all the guns, for maybe 1 point per gun? or a silencer atachment? that could be fun.

also, the sniper rifle would need some improvement, methinks... I like the RTCW sniper idea, the longer you hold still, the better the shot. also you could offer a "sniper gyro system" to take it back to what you have now, for perhaps 15 points.(if you are gonna give um a boom-stick, make it hurt.:))

if the point system, is a no-go, perhaps just somthings like, the E-11 has a weaker scope(common, its on the flipin model, why cant we use it?) and give the primary fire the silencer...

anyway, thats all I have right now... I am sure I will think of more later... bye

08-14-2002, 04:39 AM
Awesome, I must be moving up in the world to get the attention of one of the Mods. :D

if you need a guy to bouce ideas off of and test things, I am your guy... I have to be one of the only ones who has heard of/likes jedi style...

That would be great. I'll PM you if I need something that I can just discuss in this thread. (Sides, it gives the thread a good bump at the same time. :) We're still in the Design / Recruitment stage so it will probably be a while before we get to a Beta Testing point.

also say the word, and in 30min EVERYBODY will know... I can get ahold of anyone, belive me

Well, we could really use someone who knows how / wants to sort thru the animations and set up the modified animations we'll need. I know very little about the animation setup and it sounds rather complicated. :( But, fortunately, I believe we can do everything we want to do without needing to create "new" animations.

As for other needs, the more coders, the better. This is mainly a gameplay Mod so we don't exactly need mappers, skinners, etc. But, we could use them to recreate some of the famous movie battles to show off the improved combat system and add a little "flash" to the presentation. :)

this new mod sounds WONDERFULL, and the only advice I have is:dont start too big, start on the small side.

also, people like previews. if they know about it, and like it, they will come back for more. think yoda model thread

Very wise advise. I've been trying to keep this thread up to date with my current design docs, but that hasn't seemed to generate as much interest as I had hoped. But that's ok. :)

As for trying to start small, I've already assigned the whole leveling system to Stage Two of the project but I may have to divide it up more to generate some interest and help. Of the Stage One modifications I think the Saber Clash/Force Dodge/Fatigue is the most important but they'll also be the hardest to impliment. :P Maybe we should start with a small release that tweaks the Specials....

why not instead of powerups, you would pick your gun(if so inclined) off a point based menu, much like the current force menu?

That's a great idea! :) It would be a good way to work on the UI and game code without getting TOO deep into it. I think I'll add that to the Design Doc (if that's ok with you. :) )

The gun attactments are good ideas too. I'll also add them to the DD but I'm not sure how implementable weapon add-on are in the game. (It may require adding "new" weapons for the add-on abilities and that may not be possible yet.)

I agree that the Disrupter need a work over. Maybe set secondary to zoom toggle and Push/Pull to zoom in and out? And add a diminishing random "barrel float" to the sights instead of a Rainbow 6 Crosshair thingy (sorry, I don't remember how the RTCW sniper scope worked....)

Anyway, thanks for the great input! I'll be sure to credit you for your contribution. :)

08-14-2002, 05:01 AM
Actually, after thinking about it. We sure could use a good mapper person as well. We need someone with knowledge of the map triggers to figure out a way to make the players "dodge" map damage. For example, after watching the movies I got the impression that Jedi seem to be able to fall at terminal speeds (Anakin/Obi-Wan on Coricent, Luke on Bespin, etc, etc.) and survive the landing. Therefore, on ns_streets and other "fall death" maps, I think you should just fall off the bottom of the map, "run back up to the level", and reappear thru a doorway or something with a slight Fatigue/Health Hit instead of a suicide match against your kills. (except, of course, for Bespin where there's no ground to safely fall onto. :)

08-14-2002, 05:15 AM
sure, add whatever you want to the docs, I do not mind one bit.

moving on...

when I said, give me 30min and everone will know, I ment just that"everybody" you know, 'joe 3 doors down' just so people know about this mod... jedi style floped frankly, just some bad timing, coming right after the much larger jedi mod 1.0.

however, I DO know some editors in the jkii world... I can think of a maper who does good work, and a 2 or 3 model/animation guys... come to think of it, the other day, one of them got a user-made .GLM file to work in mod-view... you might want to talk to him...

there is a ton of talent in the jediknightii.net IRC chat... and a ton of ideas...

like I said, I will think up some more ideas tomorow, as its not 0408 here.... GAH! night all!

edit: I have done enough mapping to know your idea, good as it may be, will not work at this time. there is no way to unBSP a map, and the only 2 ways to do what you would want/need is:1, remake the maps from scratch... doable, but very time consuming. OR 2, convince raven to somehow release/send us/do it for us the .MAP files of the above maps... yeah right...

your best shot would be to include a mappack with maps that are close in gamplay to the defaults...

look at this, I edited in a whole damn 2nd post... GAH! night for REAL this time:D

08-14-2002, 05:34 AM
oh, ok. Ether way the more people know about the Mod the better. Well, at least until the "D00d, h0w d0 I G3t t00 s@b3rs N J3Di M0D????!!!!!"people show up. :)

sweet, go ahead and PM me their contact info so I can pump them for information. :)

I'll be sure to go check out the JK2.net IRC when I've got the time. It's bedtime for me also.

edit: I have done enough mapping to know your idea, good as it may be, will not work at this time. there is no way to unBSP a map, and the only 2 ways to do what you would want/need is:1, remake the maps from scratch... doable, but very time consuming. OR 2, convince raven to somehow release/send us/do it for us the .MAP files of the above maps... yeah right...

Well, crap. But, I figured that was the case. Would it be possible to do it from inside the game code instead of the map files? I figure the map triggers are probably filtered down into the code at some point. (since the trash compacter can't kill Duelers but the falls can.) If we found that piece of code we could probably do a custom hack for each map to simply respawn your character at a certain point instead of just kill him. I don't know how we could explain trash compacter yet...maybe force the player to force speed out the door when the compacter trigger is pressed?

Well, good night all! I'll be sound to answer all messages in the morning.

08-14-2002, 12:44 PM
just a thought, in SBX, you could mid air jump, and that was really handy when you got blown off by a destruction, or with later mods, force push. maybe that would be a better alternative to "force dodge the ground" since it would be easier to impliment (i think) and also, then its not computer controlled, if your not paying attention, you can still me thrown off, but if you are, you should have no prob getting back to safe ground.

though this would cause rolling to reduce falling dmg to be useless, as you could just slow your fall with force jump as we did with SBX... but its still a worthy idea to consider.

also, i want to give my best wishes to this mod, as it sounds like the exact thing i have been mentally planning :D i just lack the skills...


08-14-2002, 02:13 PM
While a midair jump sounds like a good gameplay option, it's never been shown in the movies plus, I imagine it would require a huge burst of the Force to go from falling to jumping in midair. However, maybe at some point in the future, we could make a "extreme saber combat" toggle with additional unrealistic options(like midair DBZ style saber clashing and the like) that would be simply fun to use. :)

08-14-2002, 03:53 PM
I've always thought (as an idea) this game needed a new gameplay type.

Assuming you get most of what you want working, you could add in new gameplay types so maps and missions would be more intune with the movies. Like an example of one gameplay is a mission based gameplay sort of like CS or so.

Here's my idea.

Have one gameplay type called Insurrection (or something to that effect). Where you have one team the defense (depending on which era you like more) could have one team the Empire or Rebels (or new Republic). One team would be defending their base from attack by the opposing team. Now the objectives would vary, but they could include something like planting thermal detonating devices at the base's main computer terminal. Hacking into the files and stealing them and escaping (like Rebels stealing the first Death Star plans). Assassinating a General or other kind of leader. Or lots of other possible theories. This would not only create variety (and teamwork something JK2 certainly has a lack of), but it would also tie in your craving for realism true to the movies, with the story lines and such. Making it more movie like by actually taking part.

I also think having the weapon UI would be nice too. Like those who aren't Jedi or Sith pick their weapons off that. I also think that people that can use the force shouldn't be able to use any weapon other than a Lightsaber (that's me, I've always thought that). And people that can use a variety of weapons can't use the force or Lightsabers.

For this gameplay type you could have it where one team being whatever, Empire, Rebels, whatever you decide. Have a certain amount of Jedi/Sith to each team. The rest of the team being regular soldiers with a variety of selected weapons. Each weapon would be paired with their team's counterpart. Meaning each team only gets to select the weapons that their side actually created (or actively use). That would make diversity between the teams.

Anyway, that's one of my ideas. Seems like if it was done right it'd add a whole new depth to multiplayer, other than just killing people or going after a flag.

08-14-2002, 04:02 PM
Btw, about the dodge system. Wouldn't it be easier just to make it an effect to a force power?

Like take one of the under-used force powers, Seeing. Most people only do this to level 1. Because let's face it. It's not overally useful beyond that. Sure at level 3 you can dodge sniper fire, but.. c'mon.

Maybe you should make it where seeing gives you a chance to dodge automatically? Like level 1 seeing still lets you see people invisible (assuming you're still making mind trick make you go invisible, if you're not then don't bother with that). But you could make level 1 give you a 5% chance of dodging a blaster shot or lightsaber attack. Level 2 15% change. Level 3 40% chance. I dunno just a thought. Might just make it easier to make it random. Although you're idea sounds fine, I was just offering a simplier solutation, since Seeing is pretty unused for the most part (level 2 and 3 anyway).

Changing some of the other existing force powers to make them more movie-like might be a good idea too.

08-14-2002, 04:17 PM
While it would be a cool idea and all, I don't see it as worthwhile from a work -> payoff point of view. It would require an @$$load of programming, mapping, etc. and you'd be basically getting Team Fortress with lightsabers and the Force. Maybe after we complete all the other modifications we could attempt something like that but I currently feel that's beound the scope of the Mod. Sides, I understand that the Jedi Fortress WIP is going to do that exact thing.

As for the experience system, I believe in a more open ended style of system. Jedi players should use Lightsabers because they are the powerful, elegent, glaceful weapon of the Jedi not because we force them to. The Lightsaber is easily the most powerful and utilitarian weapon in the Star Wars universe and this will be reflected in the game. Sure, the guns will be balances against the saber, but a Jedi with a saber is simply more powerful than the best Bounty Hunter in the Galaxy with a blaster. I'm thinking that to offset this inharent advantage will be offset by a score bias for gun wielders.

08-14-2002, 06:08 PM
Well I meant for the gameplay type to allow only Jedi to use a Lightsaber, not your whole mod. Anyway, I understand it's alot of work, it was just an idea.

As for the weapons. What about simply limiting the number of weapons someone can carry? Like they can have a pistol, primary weapon, secondary weapon and selected explosives? But in the UI also give the person a choice whether to use a Lightsaber or Stun rod instead? But if you pick Lightsaber, it counts as the primary weapon, so therefore you can only carry a pistol, second weapon, and selected explosives?

Also could make it an OPTION to have it if you go no Lightsaber you can't use the force, but you get to carry more weapons? Making it a viable option to go Bounty Hunter as opposed to normal fitted soldier or Jedi. That'd give it a little more variety? Making it customizable for all types of people, would be nice. I don't think that'd take a whole lot of skinning, programming and such.

Just another idea anyway.

08-14-2002, 06:56 PM
I'm writting about the Force Powers at the moment but I'll get to it soon. :) I really liked SPY_jmr1's seperate UI menu for weapons for at least Stage One of the project. For Stage One I'm thinking of making non-force users be able to use Jetpacks and other B Hunter tricks. And you'll have at least be Force Sensitve to use the saber, but then you don't have access to the B Hunter goodies. In Stage Two you'll be able to be a Force Sensitive B Hunter but for now we need to start implimenting the gameplay goodies first.

08-14-2002, 09:41 PM
I have been playing this game since it came out and i have to say this mod your making does sound like its going to make things alot of fun and also more movie like. Wish i knew some programing so that i could help out with it >_<

Good luck!!! and hope to read about it on the main site !!

Yagyu Jubei

08-14-2002, 09:59 PM
Thxs. A lack of programming knowledge isn't a problem, we could always help with the design or many other parts of the project. We just need dedicated people. :)

08-15-2002, 08:22 PM
I just added additional information about what positions are open, in the Roster post at top of the thread. In addition, I've completed Force Powers part of the DD (Design Doc). However, I think I'm going to edit the posted DD into a simpler "Features" list.

Razor Ace

08-15-2002, 11:44 PM
Well I'd be willing to help you out. I don't have much techincal experience.. least not in JK2. But I could help in design if it was only requiring brainstorming or something. But either way I could help beta test too.

08-16-2002, 12:10 AM
I'm a bit confused. Are you saying that you'd like to help, but don't have the time and dedication to do more than brainstorm? That's ok, if you can't get too involved, just post ideas to the thread. :)

As for Beta Testing, if you're willing to do some hardcore Beta Testing / Balancing, I'll sign you up for the team. However, I should note that I think we're going to be making fairly rapid releases to show off what we are doing. So, if you just want to Play Test it, just d/l it when we start releasing. :)

08-16-2002, 01:30 AM
Well I have time to do more than brainstorm, but I don't really have any experience with anything techincal in JK2 is what I'm saying. I've edited skins, units, and maps in previous games before. But I don't think it can really qualify as knowledge on how to do anything in JK2. Since every game is different from that stance, knowing something on one game is knowing nothing in another.

And yeah I'd be willing to do hardcore beta testing and balancing, if you need me.

08-16-2002, 01:31 AM
Ugh double posts. I'm sleepy. :(

08-16-2002, 01:53 AM
oh, ok. Well, we don't care if you're a JK2 Modding newbie, we are too. Everyone has to start somewhere. How about you look over the available positions and DD and pick out what you'd like to help with Then just give me a PM and I'll get you set up. :) Me and Sonic are thinking that the Force Powers will the easist to do and therefore will be done first. As such, if you want to, you could look into creating some models of "ordinary" SW objects for us to sprinkle into some of the maps for the TK (telekenetic) Power.

I'm glad you willing to help. :)

Razor Ace

08-16-2002, 03:36 AM
quick idea: re, gun addons: would it help to make the addons a invintory(sp?late) item? now, before you jump on me, I dont know jack about Q3 coding, other then the 16 weapon limit...

I have heard this might be hacked, is this yes/no/maybe/ok, kinda thing?

also, I have some people I know, who map, and one guy for animations... you want me to put you togeather? or what?

th eonly problem, nither of them do much in the forums... hmm... anyway, it looks cool sofar!:D

doh, I know what I forgot.

if you are tweeking the guns, I would like to see somthing added that has been lacking in all SW games so far.


gun clips that is, just think: having to reload your gun/let it cool... this could balence some of them vs sabers right there... would you spam alt rep fire if it took 3 secs to reload that nade lonucher? and I KNOW the e-11 has a 15 rould clip...

the only problem, there are not any animations for this... you would either have to make them, or just have the gun lower/rise out of sight... and hear the sound. it cant be hard to code, many Q3 games do this...

one thing thats harder to do, but would rock, is to have random/heat buildup jamming... americas army does this very well... it does not happen often, but often enough to need a key bound...

anywya, I've been talking to long, I shuld so to bed now... late... night, and hope to hear good things about the above ideas

08-16-2002, 04:16 AM
Sorry, I haven't explored the possibly of weapon addons yet. It all depends on how the game handles weapons. If a each stance on the saber counts as a "weapon" the we probably can't do much if the game has a 16 "weapon" limit. If the game counts the different modes of a gun as one "weapon" we should be able to do a lot of stuff with it. :)

YES! Get them in contact with me ASAP! We can use all the help we can get :)

Clips are a great idea! I'll add to it the DD. I was considering it for the missile launcher (which fires WAY TOO quickly) but didn't think to apply it to the other weapons. I imagine we'll just do a quick "gun disappears" trick so we don't have to create new animations to do it. I'm really worried that truely new animations will be next to impossible to create without the motion capture equipment and software. If that turns out to be true the Mod will limited by that.

And yes, the Repeater secondary is planned to have much less ammo and have a "wind-up" period and sound. I envision it as a sort of energy gernade launcher so I'm trying to balance it to be like one. :)

As for gun jamming, I have two issues:

A. How can a plasma based weapon jam without exploding?
B. Do Star Wars weapons jam at all?

In real life, jams aren't THAT big of an issue, guns aren't complicated enough to realistical jam hard enough to be hard to unjam. Jams are the result of a casing not ejecting or loading correctly. The problem is that SW guns are not based on a casing system so they simply can't "jam" in the way our guns do. If you can figure out how a SW gun could jam we could probably add it to the game. :)

You know, if you're interested enough and have the time you could work as a weapons designer for the Mod. I'm mainly interested in the saber design and I don't use the guns enough in the game to really know how to balance them vs. other gunners. :) As of now, I haven't even touched any of the weapons in the DD except for the repeater and the saber. We need to work out a gun / force point system (that may or may not be linked) for the Stage One implimentation.

08-16-2002, 05:49 AM
Random Ideas are now stored with the Design Document, here. (http://personal.palouse.net/razorace/design%20doc.txt)

08-17-2002, 01:30 AM
sure, I would go for the weapon designer spot, but like I said, I know less than jack about programing... but tons about how things should act/balence...

re, jams: hmm point on the plasma weapons... but remember in JKII you have 2 guns that use a metal bolt clip(real ammo) and a rocket gun... the repeater shoots real bullets, a jam is not out of the question... for the rocket louncher, I am thinking.... right now, there are 2 modes of fire.. dumbfire and homing... both are low risk...perhaps... um... if mind trick is still in, in some form, have it work on the rocets, and have it chage targets randomly at low levers, and at lvl3(or whatever) have it try and seek the shooter...

ohh... that sounds cool:D have push still affect it, but only shove it off course perhaps...this could get interesting...

other idea, leave the rate of fire, wait for it... but have it, so that the more rounds you fire fast, with out leting it cool, makes it start to increse the chance that the next round you shoot will blow up in your face...

damn, thats evil too:D

also, I send you a PM about this... I got some names.

08-17-2002, 02:49 AM
re, jams:

Good points. So what is the repeater then if it fires real bullets? Real bullets travel much faster than that AND even a jedi couldn't deflect a spray of real bullets...

As for the rocket launcher, I was thinking that it would make sense if we seriously limited the reload speed and ammo. And maybe change the homing mode to a lazer guided or guided missile mode to make it more realistic.

ohh... that sounds cool have push still affect it, but only shove it off course perhaps...this could get interesting...

My thoughts exactly, I think force push or Dodge should instead of reversing the missile rotate it off course depending on your TK skill. And the pure TK Mode could actually manuver the missile around just like any other object. Say Push = (25% deflection Level 1; 45% level 2 90% level 3) and TK = (none level 1, 50% slow down in missile speed Level 2; 100% stop Level 3) So, if you caught the missile with TK you could throw the missile against the shooter or another person.

I think that's a great idea for the better guns. (practical and a realistic explaination why not everyone has they in Star Wars. :) However, I imagine you'd have to set it so you'll not risk blowing up your gun unless you continuously fire the gun thru multiple clips without pause (No one would use a gun that explodes all the time. :)

08-17-2002, 05:38 AM
Let's say this:

As long as it does not touch Ghoul (i.e. saber and animations) I'm ok with it.

The problem is, I do not know how much free time I will have from september 1st.

But things like weapon changes, general prog, I can do them


oh and also, just for you to know, the wall walking is now treated like a jump with a modified animation AND a chance to jump to side (aka flip from the wall)

[more edit]

Lightsaber is one weapon. The stances are treated like different values of one variable (for example similar to this):
if(pm-ps.right>0 && pm->ps.forward>0) //moving right-forward
if( stance==1) //light

else if(stance==2)
etc etc
(code is only an example, actual names will differ of course)

08-17-2002, 04:47 PM
ok, great!

I don't think we intend to mess with the Ghoul 2 system, just interface with it's output.

Thxs for the info on Wall Walk and the weapons. That means we should be able to impliment weapon addons or a more controllable Wall Walk. Excellent!

Thanks Ask and welcome to the team!

Razor Ace

08-17-2002, 05:07 PM
I would love to hardcore beta-test your mod. My email is -edited out-. I'm not on ICQ or AIM, but I could get one of those if I had to. I do get on IRC alot, though. I really like the idea of the clash versus the lock (as a matter of fact I turn off locks when I play against bots), and the other ideas in your DD sound like a blast to play.

08-17-2002, 05:26 PM
Sure! I'll add you to the Team.

Next time, I suggest you PM your email info, spammers can pick up email addresses from forums.

08-17-2002, 05:36 PM
Thanks, I forgot about the PM on here. I edited out my email address. :) Also, I have an idea for a force power. I'll PM it to you.

08-17-2002, 06:23 PM
Ok, feel free to PM me or post ideas to the thread.

08-18-2002, 02:11 AM
What I do suggest is:

meanwhile, when the site is not ready, I can make a private section for the mod on my site's forums os we could talk there without fear of:
"mail me this mod to abc@aol/hotmail/yahoo/lycos.com when it's done".

also, some channel on IRC would be nice, but GamesNet would probably only register it when we have a site. Not sure about other networks.

08-18-2002, 02:18 AM
I haven't found it to be a problem yet. We haven't had a single "mail me this mod to abc@aol/hotmail/yahoo/lycos.com when it's done" yet.

As for IRC, I've never used it before I normally use ICQ. Sides, the staff seem to be in different countries anyway. :) I'm up most of the time, Spr's on late, and S0nic is up earlier than me. :)

08-18-2002, 04:18 AM
I am going to have to ask you for rembursment for a new keyboard. WHile reading over the DD drool came out of my mouth and short curcited my keyboard. I will have you know that my keyboard is wireless so make sure u get it right ok :(

08-18-2002, 06:20 PM
The Masters of the Force Team is not responsible for drool damage. Write your congressperson instead. :)

And thanks for the positive comments. :)

08-22-2002, 10:33 AM
Damn, this mod just sounds wonderful! Cant wait to play it!

I am curios, on wich IRC-network will you be on ? I would very much like to be up-to-date with this wonderful mod!

Also, you said that you would like to have more movie-like maps to play on? Well im working on a tattooinemap for the moment, and its pretty buggy right now, but its not finished ;). Here are some screenshots:


As you might see the textures are not lined up properly, and the lightning isnt good too, but it will be soon.

The map is small, but it is intended to be a duel, and a FreeForAll map. My email is buckman@spray.se (buckman@spray.se) , so please contact me via email if you are interested ;)

-Buck out

08-22-2002, 11:03 AM
Some mod tips I wrote can be found here :


In addition to that I would suggest 1 more thing, do not spread you design documents out like that, for everyone to read. 95% of the people on these forums are good and nice blokes who are all working for the community, trying to increase the jk2 experience.

The other 5% are copycats, and try to do stuff that other people invent or what they find on these forums. If you don't watch your stuff, some other mod will start with a similar design document and some small changes.

It is not because I think bad of people that I say this, but because I have seen it happen before.

I can see that you've gone through a lot of work to have some design docs, keep up the good work, try to lead your project decently, and you'll get there.

08-22-2002, 05:20 PM
Thanks for the suggestions UniKorn. I understand the possibility of people stealling our work but I'm not overally concerned. The project is going to be open source, plus I imagine anyone who needs to steal ideas is going to not be originized enough to be able to impliment any of the cool features we want to try. I mainly have the DD posted to encourage people to get involved in the project. People can't make suggestions when they don't know what you're doing. Many of the other Modders feel the need to totally conceal their project's purpose until after they start releasing.

And yes, I've read your Mod tips thread. I think we're following that pretty well except for a website. I can't do good graphic websites and I haven't been able to find someone willing to webmaster for us yet.

08-22-2002, 05:27 PM
It might be a good idea to look out and write mails to professional website creators. Some of the are indeed willing to help you. You'd be amazed to see how many of them love to contribute in a game or a mod. After all, if they can build a website, they can also build your user interface.

08-22-2002, 06:09 PM
buckman: I'm normally on ICQ a lot and some of the team hangs out occationally at the gamesnet.net #jediknight channel. I'll email you about the maps. One suggestion, remove your email from your posting. Spammers use programs to scan for email address on forums such as this.

08-22-2002, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by UniKorn
It might be a good idea to look out and write mails to professional website creators. Some of the are indeed willing to help you. You'd be amazed to see how many of them love to contribute in a game or a mod. After all, if they can build a website, they can also build your user interface.

Professionals? I'm not willing to pay for a website, but if they'd do it for free I'd go for it. You have any suggestions of who to ask?

08-23-2002, 11:42 PM
hey razorace, I gotta admit. this is perhaps the best idea for a jk2 mod I've ever heard. don't give up on it. no matter what people say, don't give up on it. it'll be awsome.

08-24-2002, 01:07 AM
Thxs. What part of the Mod do you find most appealing?

08-27-2002, 12:28 AM

08-28-2002, 11:56 PM
The Design Doc is nearing completion. I've gotten most of it hammered down except for the gun systems. Expect programming to begin in earnest soon.

09-01-2002, 05:39 PM
ASk and I are working on a previously hidden feature of the JK2 Code. We'll release our information on it once we confirm the syntax and such.

09-01-2002, 05:48 PM
What is the projected length of the coding process? I wish I could help but I cannot currently code or map. I have alot of ideas myself. Few of them are expressed in your mod in different forms. Telekinetics for example. Im really excited about that feature.

09-01-2002, 08:00 PM
To total completion or to first release? I'm not going to estimate to completion as my estimate would be wrong. :) However, if we can secure the services of a mapper, we should be able to release our information on the hidden feature in about a week or so.

As for your ideas, if you want to share them, ether post them here or PM them to me. :)

Razor Ace

09-01-2002, 08:47 PM
However, if we can secure the services of a mapper, we should be able to release our information on the hidden feature in about a week or so.

Are you saying that the first release would be in about a week? Why don't you post this request in the mapping forum?

09-01-2002, 08:53 PM
Well, this was my force throw concept(would work like force grip)....

Level 1: Can move small objects,(rocks, droids, small
boxes etc.) for attack one at a time.
Must be stationary for 4 seconds.

--Every item within your arc or circle is affected.
Your arc/cursor(like force push/pull) on this level is
large enough for only one small object--

Level 2: Can move medium/small objects for attack
three at a time and press distanced switches
Must be stationary for 2 seconds.

--Your arc/cursor(like force push/pull)on this level
is large enough for three medium/small objects--

Level 3: Can move large/medium/small objects for
attack. Medium/small objects 5 at a time. Large
Objects 1 at a time.
Can press distanced switches. Can move aircraft around
the size of Xwings. That is not for attack, and it
would require a stationary 2 seconds of focus.(on
MP/SP maps this would make nice for hidden areas. Or
for SP, could be imperative to advancement in that

Movement of medium/small objects is instantaneous

--Your arc/cursor(like force push/pull) on this level
is large enough for 5 medium/small objects and 1 large

Level 4: Can collapse structures. All the aforementioned abilities are done instantly, no focus required. 5% increase in throw speed.

09-01-2002, 08:56 PM
This is another thought I had. It actually was for an addition to a jedimod based mod. I think it could bring a bit more balance to the dual/two saber weilding.

-The ability to break a dualbladed saber in half (to one saber-ex: Obi-wan vs Maul)
-The ability to destroy one saber if the opponent is weilding two at once(ex. Anakin vs. Dooku)

In your mod, will you be able to wield dual and two sabers?

09-01-2002, 09:55 PM
Nope, not until we can make new animations or someone else does. I believe I've addressed this before...without new animations the saber(s) clip thru the player's body AND don't fight with the correct style. As for your Force Throw idea, it's basically the same as TK except for level 4, which simply isn't practical to program, you'd ether have to create special maps (with scripted structure collapse) or rewrite the whole JK2 engine (which we don't have access to).

09-02-2002, 03:50 PM
What about if someone trows a saber at you and you block it it falls to the ground right? But instead YOU pick the saber up!
Also when someone dies you can pick their saber up (in addition to get 2 sabers)!

Is it possible?

The Truthful Liar
09-02-2002, 04:19 PM
Razorace are you still in need of hosting and/or a site layout?

If so, www.nrgteam.com NRG can certainly host your mod and furnish you with a board for posting. If I have time I can also personally work on a nice layout for you.

Cheers ;)

09-02-2002, 05:54 PM
Erliko: Read the post above yours..... We'll put in that feature once the problems are figured out. :)

AB_Legion: I've got two webmasters already but I'm not sure my current hosting will be able to handle it. What are the details of your offer? How much space/bandwidth/control would we have and how would this relate to your website?

Speaking of which....what happen to the Jedi of the Old Republic Mod? They seem to have the same goal as us, we could probably merge projects if they're still around. :)

The Truthful Liar
09-02-2002, 07:35 PM
There's more than enough space for you. Bandwidth is practically unlimited (30GB transfers) and there are unlimited MySQL databases as well as PHP4 support. Trust me, nothing is lacking on my server :cool:

All that is required if you choose to take on NRG's hosting, is you put alittle mention that you're being hosted by us (added with a link).

JotOR is still hosted by NRG, it's going to be one of our main points of concentration to work on this project. You would have to speak with Seth, Rajess MoDuron for more information though.

Do you have MSN or AIM, any of the sort for communication? If so that would be good so we could talk further about hosting.

Cheers ;)

09-02-2002, 09:03 PM
Awesome. I'm PM you my contact information. I'm on basically all the messenger services with Trillian.

What's Seth or Rajess MoDuron's contact information? I posted to the JotOR thread but I never got a reply. Depending on Mod focus and control issues, it may be best if the teams worked together. :) No point do the same things slightly different. :)

Razor Ace

The Truthful Liar
09-02-2002, 10:33 PM
Sounds good, but I think the PM system is down.

How about signing up on the nrg forums and you can tell me there?

*points to sig and runs*

:D :D :D

09-02-2002, 11:04 PM
Ok. I'd just post it here but the forum's big enough for spammers to have email scanners on it. :P

09-03-2002, 08:49 AM
as for message boards...I do not think we would need yours. I coded one of my own, with quite a bit of features, so it won't be necessary to use yours :)

The Truthful Liar
09-03-2002, 08:59 AM
Originally posted by ASk
as for message boards...I do not think we would need yours. I coded one of my own, with quite a bit of features, so it won't be necessary to use yours :)

That's why we could have used your expertise in the past. Oh well...

Cheers :cool:

09-04-2002, 09:32 PM
Hey Razorace, any chance of releasing a beta of some aspects of your mod? Like, the Telekinetics force power for example?(When its coded of course).

09-04-2002, 09:47 PM
By the way I am interested in beta testing if possible.

09-05-2002, 01:23 AM
Sorry, I forgot to mention the release plan. We'll be doing releases of small implimentations thru out the development cycle. In fact, We'll probably make a official release of the hidden feature ASk discovered in a week or so. As for ACTUAL MotF releases, I imagine we'll probably make our first release in about three weeks.

09-05-2002, 01:27 AM
As for beta testing, PM me your email/contact information and we'll get the ball rolling. :)

09-05-2002, 04:15 AM
PM messed up right now afaik...

still working on weapons...

and do I hear a upcoming saga in the myst?:D

09-05-2002, 10:26 AM
Maybe. :D

09-06-2002, 11:26 PM
Hey wassup. sorry I havn't posted in awhile, sounds like it's gonna be awsome. I'm gonna watch this one closely. I'd help but I don't know how to edit :(

09-07-2002, 04:38 PM
Well, someone beat us to the punch....Sort of... Slunker release a partial set of specs for the Saga Gametype (the secret project). It's a objective-based team mode. The link to the thread is here. ( I'm a little upset being accused of keeping something a secret for malicous purposes, but otherwise we're fine. ASk is about to send in a Mod to fix some minor bugs in the system. I'll start on coming up with some ideas to improve Saga for MotF.

Dragonlance: We can always use help on design or beta testing, if you can't code/map/etc.

Razor Ace

09-09-2002, 02:15 AM
I've just made a major update to the design doc. It's in .doc format and it's much prettier than the old one. The link is at the beginning of the thread.

09-09-2002, 03:42 PM
I'd like to join the team. I have minimal programming knowledge, but I've worked with coders before and have an ability to understand and explain code ideas.

I could also give you a competitive viewpoint on the mod. I can see it becoming standard on many ladders, even moreso that ProMod might become. I've played in many competitions and know what people are looking for in a mod. I know why Quake 3 and RTCW have done so well competitively, and can give you ideas on how to increase popularity of the mod.

09-09-2002, 04:19 PM
I just sent you an email about it. Please remove your email address from your previous posting.

As for Promod, it seems to me that it's popular in the forums, but not very popular on the servers. :)

Razor Ace

09-12-2002, 01:53 AM

09-15-2002, 12:29 AM
hey razorace, congrats on your 1000 post!!!!!

09-15-2002, 02:05 AM
Thanks. :D Speaking of which, why did my message count drop by about 50 posts?


09-15-2002, 05:29 AM
Hey razorace, i just read your updated design doc - looks good :)

FYI - i am doing a couple of the things in my mod that you mentioned in your design doc, and i've already coded them up.
So lemme know when you get to that stage and i might be able to save you some time.

09-15-2002, 05:40 AM
probably some spammy topic in Swamp that got deleted :)

09-15-2002, 02:29 PM
It was probably the 9/11 thread then. I don't remember posted in it 50 times thou. :P

09-15-2002, 09:47 PM
I've redone the Open Positions/Roster posting at the beginning of the thread. It's now much more in depth and updated more often. :)

09-23-2002, 01:13 PM
greetings all, I am here to tell you that for certain pre-existing reasons, I am unable to access the Mirc chat... :( wth...

anyway, I had a idea for a weapon that would be very cool, but I need to know if recoil is going/able to be put in at all?

also, for the repeater alt. fire, (or whatever high damage high arc gun gets in) can it be made to only fire if the player is crouched? this would make sence for ballence reasons, and gun backround(you gonna shoot a big gun thats basicly a portable mortor, standing up?)

thoughts, ideas?

oh yes, BUMP!!!:D

09-23-2002, 03:21 PM
Define "recoil". :) You talking recoil as in aim recoil or gun kick back?

As for the repeater alt fire, I think it depends A) on how powerful the alt fire is, and B) how far the range is.

09-23-2002, 03:25 PM
sorry, my bad, KICKBACK!

09-23-2002, 03:37 PM
hmmmm...probably, blasters cause kickback just like anyother gun....

10-05-2002, 01:34 AM
making the game more real is the best of your ideas.

1 thing would be to take out some of these 1 hit kills.

when im playing online as VenoMuS(player name) i can battle with the best or worst for a good while, sometimes up to 5 min. an still have 100 health then 1 luckey hit and i loose,
that dosnt seem fair or fun.

about beta testing, im tottally for it if you still need more people.:fett:

10-05-2002, 01:38 AM
All the "special" moves are being retooled or removed. Read the design doc for details.

10-05-2002, 01:53 AM
Weekly Team Meetings:

Starting tomorrow, we're going to have weekly team chat meetings on Saturday at 9pm PST. We will be meeting on IRC.

Server: gamesnet.net
Channel: #motf

These are openning meetings, so the "public" is welcome. Feel free to come if you want to give some input on the project or get the lastest news.

Mod Progress:

We're currently heavily in the later design stage. We have a first draft of the design set but a multitude of new ideas has created a minor delay in the programming. We'll start up the programming as so as we figure out the great new ideas we've had.

The website is coming along. We have a layout and are currently filling the site with information. Look to it to be up and running "soon".

10-07-2002, 12:13 AM
Only two people showed up for the meeting. Is it at a bad time or is noone actually interested in attending?

10-09-2002, 12:30 AM
I think what you guys are doing will be awesome when finished. I'm curious to know how far along is this mod and is there a set target date for completion? I downloaded the tools for editing JK2 but have only expiremented with them. I only get to touch my computer once or twice a week(my fiance is a pain sometimes) so I have little time for doing anything. And I know less than nothing about programming. But as I improve I'd like to drop ideas and submissions to you. I'm sure you would appreciate all the help you can get. Keep up the hard work. How is the job distribution going? Hope you have at least one person in every job. Great idea for a mod I hope it doesn't go the way of Jedi Styles. This post is long enough so I'll shut up now.

10-09-2002, 01:45 AM
Well, we kind of need people that have more availible time than that. But we can always use more people in the design discussions. :) Just stop by the official IRC channel during the day...or the weekly meeting and join in on the discussion. :)

10-13-2002, 08:37 PM
Ok, things are pluging along. Y, ASk, and me have been doing some serious design discussion over the last couple of weeks. I think we're about ready to start programming for Release 1. I'll be going over the DD in the next couple of days and try to get a revision 3 completed. We've also are in the middle of doing a "spring cleaning" of the project. Booting all the dead weight and such.

Also, I've updated the Source Code and Job Requirements at the front of the thread.

10-13-2002, 09:00 PM
Ok, I've started a thread for comments on Release 1 here. (

11-06-2002, 02:54 AM
Well, sorry for the lack of updates. I've been spending my time on other things than updating all the time. :)

Anyway, Release 1 is well on track. Hopefully, it'll be ready to go in about a week. Release 1 will contain that LEAST the following...

Release 1:

1. Dodge fully up and running
2. (1) Super Secret Easter Egg (Two Words: Justice Zone)

Anyway, that's all for now.

Razor Ace

Darth Vader III
11-06-2002, 09:43 AM
Nice idea!

11-06-2002, 04:50 PM
Which one?

Darth Vader III
11-07-2002, 12:33 AM
(I mean) Nice ideaS!

11-09-2002, 08:03 PM
Oh, ok. :)


Progess Report 11/9/02:

Got a second compile version of MotF up and running. The easter egg appears to be fully working except for a possible minor bug. As for Dodge, dodge IS operational except I must have screwed up the math SOMEWHERE because both Dodge and FP was regening a LOT faster than they should. This makes everyone invincible to player damage but I should have it fixed soon.

As for the visuals of dodge, I don't feel it's looking as good as I want it to. You only dodge once per saber swing so the blade still passes thru your body most of the time. :P In addition, I don't think the dodge is moving fast enough. On the plus side, it's got a cool real-time, matrix-style motion blur to the dodges that I didn't expect.

So basically, things are well on the way and progessing well. :)

Razor Ace

11-14-2002, 05:56 AM
First off, according to JK2.net's main page, the forums are getting reorganized. So, this thread and the other MotF threads may end up in the Showcase forums in the next week.

Progress Report 11/14/02

I now have a bug-free version of the early Release 1 code up and running. Things are taking longer than anticipted to get everything to work/look the way it SHOULD.

Mathmatically, the dodge code is perfect (except for map damage), but right now the visuals don't look "right". A saber swing will still pass thru the body (visually) due to the code only dodging once per attack (due to the way damage is dealt). I'm going to attempt to make the character hop back a little bit, in addition to the visual dodge, to eliminate the problem. Of course, this adds the problem of it being possible to suicide by dodging your way off a cliff. However, it shouldn't be too much of a problem as it's only a slight hop back AND dodge will work for fall deaths as well. On the plus side, this will add a additional point of realism (since you can in fact accidently reflexively dodge your way off a cliff) and encourage players to keep a slight distance from any bottomless pits.

In addition, the current dodge animation priorty is too low. You'll rarely do the dodge animations unless you're not attacking and not have your saber ignited.

As for map damage, the best solution I can think of is to have the game deduct a sizable amount of DP/HP and have the player teleport to a random respawn. This sims the concept of the character surviving the fall (ether thru the Force or a gadget (like a jetpack) and running back up to the combat area). For now this will apply to everyone, but it should be refined later. For example, some characters obviously can't survive a fall like that (like a Storm Trooper) and others can (Jedi/Boba Fett/etc.) In addition, we'll probably create some new map triggers to make this ability more beleivible. Like a trigger location for fall death dodge (like an elevator or a ship that flies up whenever a player dodges the fall death) and a "undodgeable" fall death trigger for locations where you couldn't probably survive the fall (getting knocked out of a airlock or falling off the edge of Cloud City).

If anyone has a better solution to these problems please let me know.

In summary, things are still coming along, so please don't think the project has been abandoned. :)

Razor Ace

11-18-2002, 09:04 PM
Progress Report 11/18/02

ok, people. I got the animation priorty problem fixed as while as various new additions to the system. I'm going to need everyone that wants to be a REAL betatester to contact me. There's a lot of new varibles that need to be twicked for the better feel/balance. Release 1 will be completed soon. :)

Razor Ace

12-10-2002, 11:44 PM
Progress Report 12/10/02

Sorry about the lack of updates, I was on vacation for turkey week and haven't gotten back into the swing of things until now. Great progress has been made. I'm sorry about the constant pushing back of estimated release dates. Things just keep coming up that just BEG to be messed with (such as the new true lethal weapon damage rates).

Anyway, I'm going to stick to my guns and get this bad boy's Release 1 out the door before Christmas if I can. :)

Neko Lain
12-11-2002, 08:01 AM
Hmmm, me and my brother(programmer) and maybe some others might consider joing your mod if we could.

a question.

Do you have a site? if not, i could maybe make one.

A request.

Get on icq or aim so we can talk! :)

Edit: Oh, and do you have a irc channel?

12-11-2002, 01:43 PM
I'm up! I'm up! I'm online now and will be for some time. Feel free to contact me.

#motf on gamesnet.net is the IRC channel.

12-16-2002, 06:59 AM
Well, I got good news and bad news.

Good News:
I'm confident that the team will have Release 1 ready and out the door by Xmas. Probably before the end of the week.

Bad News:
I screwed up the code, BAD. I've got at least 1 really weird cvar crash bug and the bot animations are screwing up.

Good News:
In progress of screwing up the code, I figured out how to get Dodge Attack to work. For those who don't know what Dodge Attack is, it's the ability to be able to fire your weapons while dodging. It's complicated to get working because I'm dealing with animations/code that were never meant to be used this way. The biggie is making it look good. Fortunately, when me and ACDCFanBill tested the prototype it worked/looked great, so that's not a issue. I was planning to release some screenies but the code got screwed up before I could get the shots. :P

Bad News:
I gotta rewrite the Dodge Attack code.

Good News:
I backed up the code right before I started to mess with the Dodge Attack concept so no good code was lost. (in fact, I didn't 'loss' any code, including the broken stuff. I just have to go back to the latest backup and start from there to insure that I get the stuff to work without bugs.) I should be able to get it working again tomorrow and will hopefully prevent the serious bugs that were plaguing me.

Bad News:
My internet connection sucks.

Good News:
That means that there's a big opportunity for people to betatest for the mod. Just contact me and I'll provide you with some contact information. Using that info, contact me in "person" so I can get you set up and ready to beta test. The only requirements are you've gotta be able to keep all team info/files secret, betatest only with bots or other team members, stay in contact with me, and follow instructions well. This is serious betatesting so we're not exactly just playing the mod. The testing needs change minute to minute while I code, so it's critical that you can communicate with me while I'm awake/coding on the #motf IRC channel. I reserve the right to send you packing if I don't like you or you give me crap. Also, this isn't a free way to get the mod. I do keep track of who gets what so I CAN track you down and bust your ass if you try to leak the mod to the public.

Bad News:
This mod's going to be a bandwidth hog.

Good News:
It's only as bad as JK2 is normally. Dodge is damaged based so it can't be predicted by the clients. Wether it's frame skippy or not directly depends on your connection. Dodge happens very quickly and if you blink/lag, you'll often miss it.

Razor Ace

12-20-2002, 06:17 AM
I've just uploaded Release 1 to my personal webspace, jediknightii.net, and jk2files.com. Feel free to d/l it from the personal webspace until it's up on the two main sites.





Also, I'm heading home for X-Mas so my dedication to the Mod maybe lacking for a couple of weeks. :)

I'm beat. I'm going to bed.

Happy Christmas,
Razor Ace

01-14-2003, 04:12 AM
Ok all. I'm back from break. I've got a new hitzone set up based on Herr's idea/notes. However, I need betatesters to fill in the gabs in my "surface to hitzone" code. I need people to test the mod by firing weapons at a still kyle model player (since all the ghoul 2 stuff is based off him) and matching the hitzones to the reported surface #. It's really simple and easy to do. :) Please contact me if you're willing to help.

Razor Ace

01-19-2003, 03:11 PM
Ok, the new MotF Forum is up. This thread has been transfered to there and closed. Please post any MotF related stuff there.