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View Full Version : What ways could LA make an original RTS?


RollingFelony
08-15-2002, 02:38 PM
All this talk about which 3d engine will SWGB use when they make another RTS? It makes my heart sink to think that LA would just follow suit of another company. The George Lucas I know does things nobody else has ever done before in all SW movies. Fully digital Ep2, wether you like it or not....Jar Jar, fully animated Yoda(which looks younger than the Ep 1 yoda...not to gripe:))

My point is it should be the first of its kind modeled to the opinons of the SWGB community....do what the majority of Players want who purchased the first SWGB and made it somewhat successful.
Some of my concepts were things like the ability to train pilots at the "Airbase" that garrison in various fighters and upgrade the fighter when they are in it. Also the pilots would be upgradeable in thier ability.
3D of course and I wouldnt complain if they used another engine but dont make the gameplay exactly the same (Ie food, wood, gold, stone) Make a unique new economy system.
More Civilizations....even invented ones....audience gasps......yes invented and approved by lucas's "authenticity" The warfare in the Air could be much more complex....since when does an x wing attack a trooper? Not complaining though just an obsevation. I love SWGB:CC it is a fun game. But the next one...and there will be a next one! Needs originality. The best way to achieve originality is take the advice of the people who actually play the game and use their imput..... I am a firm believer that you have to be careful in making a game so complex it sucks bad, and Keep it simple stupid is always good....but to copy AOM would be cowardly....but if that meant it would turn out like force commander.....forget it!

AnakinSWG
08-15-2002, 08:06 PM
I agree and wouldn't mind the wait. Also a timeline for the scenario editor (staring from the Sith War and going thought event to the current serries, most likely not the NJO) NO DEBATE PLEASE! that will show the terrian changing over time (larger/smaller rocks) maybe have it be 2 disc like one for the editor with lots of new stuff.



Dream On; LucasArts doesn't like to keep the community waiting, I think

AnakinSWG
08-15-2002, 08:08 PM
they will must likely use a game engine all ready out

Admiral Vostok
08-17-2002, 03:11 AM
I hope if they do use an existing engine they alter it a lot more than they did for Galactic Battlegrounds. Don't get me wrong, it's my favourite game (why else would I be here), but there's just too many things they carried over from Age of Empires II that don't have much of a place in Star Wars.

Not only did they keep cannons (trebuchets) and pummels (battering rams) but they even kept some technologies that are only in the game because they had an equivalent tech in AOE2, like the one which gives workers a bonus against buildings.

However, there are some things from AOE2 that they didn't keep which I think they should have. Mostly, the fact that everyone has access to every unit, even if they can't upgrade. In AOE2, some civs couldn't get gunpowder units, and the New World civs couldn't get gunpowder OR cavalry. This would have translated well to SWGB. For example, the Gungans not having air units, or the Naboo not having heavy weapons. This would have made the civs considerably weaker, but more "realistic". The one quote from the movies I remember most when playing SWGB is Captain Panaka's line "We have no army". Totally not what we see in the game.

That's just my opinion on the recycling engines debate.

Admiral Vostok
08-17-2002, 03:46 AM
Anyway, to the topic at hand.

I think its impossible to make a truly original RTS anymore. Pretty much everything has been done. But here are some ideas I've had or stuff I've seen in other RTS engines that I think would be perfect for a Star Wars RTS.

:atat: Firstly, they should only include units that we've seen at least one army have in the movies. This would mean no cannons, no pummels, no air cruisers, no grenade troopers. There are other units that we don't see any of, like the cargo hovercraft, the anti-air trooper, and pretty much all of the boats, but these are necessary in most cases.

:atat: Perhaps give the Jedi units more special powers, such as Force push or something. I also think all Jedi units should heal automatically like the Jedi Masters, but Sith shouldn't. Make Sith slightly tougher as a balance.

:atat: For air units, use a similar approach to Empire Earth (this is the engine I've had the most experience with recently). The air units are constantly moving, so their bombing runs and dogfights look a lot better. Also, if you don't want them flying around all the time they can garrison at the airbase, and you give orders to the different classes of air unit. This is sort of similar to the fighter planes in Red Alert 2, for those who have played, except you can leave the planes flying around, and bombers carry a bigger payload than one missile.

:atat: Another Empire Earth feature: the zoom in function. You can scroll down to the view of a trooper, and watch and command your forces that way. This would be fantastic for Star Wars, as the battles in the movies are nearly always viewed from a human perspective. If this is the only feature a new Star Wars RTS has, I'll buy it.

:atat: I like the idea of training pilots who then run to their fighters when told to. However, I'd have to say NO MORE CIVS! Only the ones we actually see in the movies, if anything get rid of Wookiees.

:atat: Here's somthing I haven't seen before: trenches. Just like in the Battle of Hoth. You could "garrison" troops inside, and it provides some (but not complete) protection. It's also a barrier to smaller units that can't physically get over, but not to things like assault mechs.

:atat: I think anti-air turrets should fire lasers, like the turbolaser on the Death Star and on the Trade Federation War Freighters.

:atat: Capital Ships. Maybe a maximum of one per hundred population or something, so you can't get a whole heap of them. You can garrison fighters and bombers inside. At least half the civs have them in the movies, and those that don't will probably need some sort of compensation (not a made up one). A Gungan capital ship would just be stupid. You've got Star Destroyer for Empire, Mon Calamari Cruisers for the Rebels, War Freighters for the Trade Federation, and the Republic Assault Ship for the Republic.

eizo131
08-17-2002, 04:25 AM
If I am correct we were talking about game engines so I think RoN ( Rise of Nations) would be a good game engine, but since we talking about other things their SHOULD be new civis. ( no comments ) And the capitol ships are a good idea.
P.S. do the titles above your avatar mean something?

General Nilaar
08-17-2002, 08:18 AM
Why does everyone want to see a Star Destroyer? I don't remember seeing any Star Destroyers in the Battle of Hoth. They're too large in scale for use in the game, and from a universe perspective they are too large to go into a planets atmosphere.

As for made up civs, well we only have one more movie to go. Then there will never be anything new that's "offical" again. In other words things are about to get real static and boring in the Star Wars universe of games if you just follow the movies.

I don't see what's wrong with a Wookie civ. We know they're technologically advanced. What's wrong with having some fun and seeing what they can do? It's certainly more fun than using an ewok civ.

Zoom-in function? Why? It's useless and only creates more lag time in multi-player games. Not everyone out there has broadband modems. Why should LucasArts restrict the game only to those who do? And let's not forget what a movable camera did to Force Commander.

Now trenches and air units that can strafe, those are good ideas:)

Darth Windu
08-17-2002, 08:40 AM
With all due respect, trenches are not a good idea. If you jumped into a trench in WW2 (which is like star wars in fighting) during a battle, you're dead because you're a sitting duck. Infantry going into the prone position would be much better.

Tyrion
08-17-2002, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
With all due respect, trenches are not a good idea. If you jumped into a trench in WW2 (which is like star wars in fighting) during a battle, you're dead because you're a sitting duck. Infantry going into the prone position would be much better.

But grenaders would do MUCH better in trenches,as ranged direct fire troops will have a hard time shooting them from far away,but they can fire like normal.

Admiral Vostok
08-18-2002, 12:24 AM
Okay, maybe the capital ships idea isn't feasible.

As for new civs... don't forget until a few years ago people playing Star Wars games only ever got to be rebels or imperials. Now we have a lot more armies from the movies to add variety. I will retract my statement about the Wookiees, but I would hate to see anything that isn't at least based in the movies as a civ. I'm a Star Wars Purist, so I say no to EU civs (such as the Yuzan Vong or what ever they're called). However, I suppose something like a Mon Calamari civ isn't all bad.

And I stand by a zoom-in function. However, please note this does NOT mean a movable camera. I have a dislike for games where the camera can rotate around the map, it adds a complexity that really isn't needed. Zooming in, however, is different, and anyone who has played Empire Earth will back me up that it is cool (even if it has no purpose other than being cool).

I'd also like to add something thought of concerning Jedis. I want to see them deflect laser bolts! Every tenth bolt or so they deflect back at their attacker.

Darth Windu
08-18-2002, 03:34 AM
Tyrion - if it was an infantry battle (WW1) that would work, but when you add mobile artillery, armour (mechs) and aircraft, you have to wage a war of mobility, turning the enemy's flank for example. In a battle such as that, any infatry in a trench would be slaughtered.

Legacy_Of_Sith
08-18-2002, 01:30 PM
I agrre with Nilar, Star Destroyers just don't fit in this type of game.

Darth Windu
08-19-2002, 06:16 AM
I disagree, i think the Star Destroyer and similar ships should be in the game in one of two forms-
1. Air Cruiser
2. Superweapon - Space Bombardment or something similar

eizo131
08-20-2002, 03:33 AM
I think that we are getting of the point go RoN!! Now then trenches should be a choice the player should be able to make trenches, mines etc.... But strafing is a GREAT idea. I really miss strafing enemies in flight simulaters and rogue leader. Super star destroyers, and star destroyers WERE seen in the battle of hoth. ( blockading the planet ) And SD and SSD are made on planets I thimk so they can enter atmospheres and exit then as well. Did you see the end of ep.2? Cruisers leaving courasant?
:fett:

memezcom
08-20-2002, 11:24 AM
Ironic thing is, that when they try and do something different with a game genre they get criticised for their efforts...e.g. Focom...
I suspect their own market research and making a game suitable for more than one gaming platform play a big part in how a game gets developed...

KoL ShadowJedi
08-23-2002, 05:53 PM
if LA put a lot of stuff WE (the community and ppl who buy the great game) want it would cost hell of a lot Jk2 cost 35 EE cost 35 this would cost 35- 50

cos it would take a LONG time to get it to all fit nicely im gonna start a thread on units and other things to maybe put in a new SWGB (if they make one)

Crazyus Dogus
08-24-2002, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by eizo131
I think that we are getting of the point go RoN!! Now then trenches should be a choice the player should be able to make trenches, mines etc.... But strafing is a GREAT idea. I really miss strafing enemies in flight simulaters and rogue leader. Super star destroyers, and star destroyers WERE seen in the battle of hoth. ( blockading the planet ) And SD and SSD are made on planets I thimk so they can enter atmospheres and exit then as well. Did you see the end of ep.2? Cruisers leaving courasant?
:fett:

That's what I was gonna say. Only problem is how to do cities. Yeah sure ya can say they are planets but then how do u do the planet's terrain?

Admiral
08-24-2002, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by eizo131
SD and SSD are made on planets I thimk so they can enter atmospheres and exit then as well. Did you see the end of ep.2? Cruisers leaving courasant?
:fett:

SD, and SSDs (most ships for that matter) are made in orbital shipyards. For a number of reasons.

1. It is eaisier.

2. If you build such ships on the ground, then you must use resources to send them into space. Where you can just build them in space and save some.

3. If you have an air leak, you can spot it in a vaccum easier then in atmosphere...

4. They are to big, to construct on the ground.

SDs, might be able to enter on the upper atmosphere, but I doubt that. I do know the VSD's are able to enter a planet's atmosphere. In Ep2, the ships you see are not as massive as SDs. Not to mention SSDs. Smaller classes are able to enter a planet's atmosphere such as the Corellian Corvette and others.

What I would do for a new game:

1. For economy, I wouldn't have it were you must mine something, or harvest. Instead set up supply lines. As such I would make it a little more complicated. To explain lets look at training a Stromtrooper. What would you need to do this.

1.New Recruit
2.Armor
3.Blaster
4.Food

To get these supplies you will need certain buildings. For instance, to get New recruites you'll need a barracks. To get armor and blasters you will need an armory, and finally for food you would need a Mess Hall. Once each building is built a supply/transport ship will appear to deliver the goods at say your command center. Then when you have the necessary goods, you can get a trooper.

This also could mean new tatics. Such as attacking supply lines, escorting supply ships, and mabye stealing supply ships if they are unprotected.

2. Impliment Moral into the game. Lets look at the Empire and Rebels for this one. Say they are fighting a battle, and the Empire is losing. Moral would get lower, if it gets low enough, then there could be a chance of Stormtroppers defecting to the Rebels. For the Rebels if moral is low, then they would throw down their weapons and walk of the screen. There can be many ways to affect it, like attacking the flanks, reinforcements, ambushes ect.

Then it could be possible to implement hero units, that affect moral, and are not just a stronger unit. Vader for instance, would inspire fear. The Imperial Troops would have the moral strengthend while the Rebels would have it lowered. Then say Leia could provide hope for them and boost the Rebel moral.

3. No more villagers. THey are completly out of place in a military base. Replace them with combat engineers who construct buildings, lay mines, defuse mines.

4. POWs, (Connects with moral): (Go with the Empire again). Say imperial troops are destroying a rebel group. Then there should be a chance were they may surrender. If they do then the Imperial player could send them to be interogated, and part of the enemy base is revealed. Have an interrogation center.

5. With Mechs and other things, have it a 2 step process. Get the mech, (order it, and the build time would the time it takes to arrive at the base), At the same time you would have to Train pilots for it. The pilots could enter the Mech, and leave it. If they are not in the mech, it has the chance of being taken by enemy drivers.

6. Experience (Veterancy). Have them tied with to the soldier not the vechile. (Connects with #5). Since vechiles aren't a live. For example. You have an At-At, it has gained some experience, and now is about to be destroyed. If you get the crew out of the vechile then you even if the vechile is destroyed you still have experienced drivers. Or if an x-wing is destroyed and the pilot ejects. The pilot has the veternancy, and if he gets backs to the base alive, then you just need to get a replacement x-wing.

This would allow for more possible tatics, such as rescuing downed pilots, or other crew members. Also if it's a the unit has enough experience they could hijacke a supply shuttle giving the player an added bonus.

7. Housing: No more build a house, replace that with barracks.

Darth Windu
08-24-2002, 11:52 PM
Really i think there needs to be one major change to any future star wars RTS. LESS MICROMANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!! I dont want to sit there for an hour figuring out what research out of 100 i should get with the resources i have. I want to be able to build large armies quickly and go fight the enemy.

Having said that i do like the idea of no houses, moral, surrendering etc. The game needs to 'flow' a lot better than it does at the moment as well.

KoL ShadowJedi
08-25-2002, 08:19 AM
admiral i sense a bit of Stonghold in your words

simwiz2
08-25-2002, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
(1) Really i think there needs to be one major change to any future star wars RTS. LESS MICROMANAGEMENT!!!!!!!!! (2) I dont want to sit there for an hour figuring out what research out of 100 i should get with the resources i have. (3) I want to be able to build large armies quickly and go fight the enemy.

Having said that i do like the idea of no houses, moral, surrendering etc. The game needs to 'flow' a lot better than it does at the moment as well.

1 - Really, I think there needs to be one major change to your posts. LESS STUPIDITY!!!!!!!! The only place where this game has bad micro is the farms depleting. Additional micro is brought on by lack of understanding of: commands, no attack stance, hotkeys, follow, etc.

2 - If you are really that stupid - then you should be playing Bob the Builder games. They would be easier for you to comprehend. Research adds strategy and replayability to the game.

3 - Looks like you forgot how to build power cores! With power cores, you do build an army rather fast, unless you are one of those turtle n00bs who wait until 3 hours of the game have passed to build an army.

What you seem to want is a clickfest game with no economy and almost no technology. If you want clickfest go play WC3. Or AoM when it comes out. :p

Admiral
08-25-2002, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by KoL ShadowJedi
admiral i sense a bit of Stonghold in your words

It is one of my favorite RTS games.

Darth Windu
08-26-2002, 10:05 AM
Of course simwiz is given the opportunity to add a constructive post, but no, he has to attack other member's idea's. The whole thing about micromanagement is that there is too much research to do, there is no research queue, and there is only a '15' unit queue, all of which lead me to the conclusion there is too much micromanagement. Fortunately it can be corrected easily.

lukeiamyourdad
08-26-2002, 10:55 AM
Windu how old are you really?
Only little kids with no experience whatsoever want an easy game. I don't think there is too much micromanagements and only stupid people who can't organize their lives a little bit would think that this game has to much micro managements. Stupid slaughters only games are not really rts. They are more infinite ressource, build an army and watch them beat the crap out of each other.I don't know how can somebody like a game where you do almost nothing.

RollingFelony
08-26-2002, 10:56 AM
Please no ridiculing other posts, although a little constructive criticism could have saved a few space shuttles :). I personally think that taking economy out would take away from the game, and the Tecnologies incorprate replayability and longevity of the title. I think the biggest part that promises replayability for myself is LAN games!! with friends and trying different tecs and using different strategies. Without the techs, we could not go Huge on fighters one round, then the next go more ground, exc. The economy in Command and Conquer RA:2 is a good example of no economy....just get the Jems and you dont have much control of how quickly you get recources. In reality, no science research and no economy meant surrender. They should make thier own economy system though not copy exactly
Sadly I think most of the stock in the future of Lucasarts is going towards Galaxies which unfortunately is not my cup of tea....but maybe I will like it...but it has been my experience that Online Play is great until you start seeing the childish behavior of some gamers. Hacking, exc.
Hopefully Lucasarts wont forget us RTS nuts!!!

RollingFelony
08-26-2002, 11:37 AM
I had a few other ideas for new features....
Yes I wouldnt waste a lot of time of making a completely new engine.....we will leave that to the fellas who brought us quake(in that everyone else uses thier Q3 engine to make FPS) I think the "Quake 3" engine of RTS will come from Age of Mythology or RoN.
Please be constuctive to all ideas and realize this is brainstorming.

Multiple Planets. Much like Seas between continents in Age of Empires, be able to transport between like 3 or so planets....this may be hard to describe how it is invisioned so be patient and build onto my ideas, or tell me why it may not work. I think it is a very authentic idea for starwars.
Lets say for example....each person starts on their own planet. There is a land map....then a space map that is seperate. One could make ANY kind of ship then. Of course it would have to be balanced for all races somehow. You could blockade an opponents planet with capitol Ships (which would be astronomically expensive) You could have certain buildings in space and the fighters could orbit, patrol or bunker. Of course the Empire would need TIE transportation as they are short range fighters. Transports would work similar and you could invade the other planet. and build on it, exc. There is a communications building to communicate to allies on other planets otherwise no communications, even with presence on another planet....there would be a tec to intercept communication(in MP that is fairly expensive much like spies in AOE2) and you have to explore the space map just like the land to find other planets....hyperdrive must be researched to get off your planet and to achieve presence in space, of course the # of planets would be limited for the length of the games sake. Invasions would be fun and exciting. To defeat your opponent in Space and then start sending in your ground army. The fighters would be more balanced and could not attack villagers (and the speeders would be researched on the planet as they are for surface attacks) You could switch between both maps and you would have a mini of both maps that could be toggled on and off. Anti air would work the same, and there would have to be a way to destroy capitol ships....we could think of capitol ships as a fortress in the sky the same as forts of SWGB with units you can train there exc. Maybe the population limit would be different to accomadate multiple planets, and you would still be able to do classic One planet skirmishes, and also only economy on the ground, and all air fighting untill one competitors planet is blockaded(they could call it blockade) in skirmish/MP mode. I could go on and on but the strategy would be fun and you could have asteroids exc that destroy fighters....and the more upgraded the fighter computers are the less fighters get taken out by asteroids. I could go on and on with the possibilities and this "rough draft" idea could make SWGB truely Star Wars.....its galactic battlegrounds not Planetary battlegrounds. I think LA could pull it off. and I would buy a super beefy comp to accomodate a great game! Peace!
RollingFelony

simwiz2
08-26-2002, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by Darth Windu
Of course simwiz is given the opportunity to add a constructive post, but no, he has to attack other member's idea's. The whole thing about micromanagement is that there is too much research to do, there is no research queue, and there is only a '15' unit queue, all of which lead me to the conclusion there is too much micromanagement. Fortunately it can be corrected easily.

I was not attacking "idea's", I was attacking your whining post that clearly showed your stupidity. I get tired of seeing these whining "it's too complicated, merge the civs, merge the units, take out econ, make it a clickfest, give me a super-unit, give me a super-civ, research is too hard, etc". You post whines in almost every thread. This game is NOT too complicated unless you have the intelligence of a shovel. You just need to learn how to play. The queues are small details that yes, it would be nice to see them improved, but this game is far from having horrible micromanagement. It just isn't designed for 2-year olds.

RollingFelony
08-26-2002, 03:12 PM
Micromanagement is only at the beginning of the game. Later on when you get the recources you can queue up your farms....you can even queue up 5 farms at once by holding shift and then selecting the queue button. This can also be done at the military buildings and any unit for that matter. 15 is plenty to queue up in one building. If you have 4 troop centers and 15 in each that is 60 troops....usually its 100 war units and 100 different kinds of recource collectors.
The villagers are only as smart as you make them since you are in command of them, they are only as fast as you let them be. If anything needs to be corrected it is the use of shields!!!!!!!!! It is cool to have them but man, balance them some!

Crazyus Dogus
08-26-2002, 04:21 PM
Anyway, thi (http://www.bighugegames.com) is (http://www.strategyplanet.com/riseofnations) is the game engine to use. Add shields and Jedi and here u go.

Admiral
08-26-2002, 05:02 PM
RollingFelony: 1 problem I see with your idea is the minimap, you would need 2 of them, which may get confusing. However to solve this you can have the minmap automatically switch depending upon which if your in space, or a planet (and which planet your on).

Working off your idea:

1. Scale, have 2 different scales, 1 the space protion and 1 for the ground portion. This way, Capital ships won't be to large. Figthers, shuttles and anything else would need to models obviously to show the different scales. (Larger one for ground and a smaller one for space)

2. The ability to capture enemy ships whether from boarding an enemy ships with an assualt vessel or making it derelict.

3. Ground to Space Weapons, Building an Ion Canon for instance, or planetary shield.

4. If you use my economy idea, (with supply shuttles), you could then ambush them from space.

5. For eye candy, if a large battle happens above a planet, and then you go down to the ground of that planet: The player sees some debri fallind.

RollingFelony
08-26-2002, 05:11 PM
One thing maybe I didnt make clear was that the Air units are primarily in space and only can garrison on land (Ie Yavin 4 in EP 4) They can also be repaired when garrisoned but at the expense of recources and the speed of the repair relies on a certain tech. The capitol ships would remain in space, and be built similar to the way a fortress is built in SWGB only it is mobile but very slow. The only thing that would need scaling is the size of fighters compared to capitol ships, but we all know that scaling is not true to form in RTS games anyways. It would be similar to the way Sea battles work, but only in space. Each planet would be visible on the space map, depending on what has been explored.

lukeiamyourdad
08-27-2002, 10:14 AM
To Rolling Felony

I like your ideas but I have one question: How long it will take us to win? It's just I don't want to spend a day before my computer. But still you have great ideas!:)

Admiral
08-27-2002, 11:29 AM
Well It would most likely depend upon the map: Simple maps can hold only enough planets for players. You could have objectives, like take the centeral planet. ect.


While scalling doesn't have to be exact, I still would hate to see an x-wing as large as a Star Destoryer. Also with 3d engiens it is feasible to scale the units to more appropiate sizes. Especially if a zoom function is included. Scalling ships would also have to be done for any ship that can enter a planet's atmosphere. Like shuttles, and figthers.

Being able to dock with the Starships would also be nice. Not just having a SD have a few fighters but also able to carry shuttles, ect. Would make for better invasions.

lukeiamyourdad
08-27-2002, 11:42 AM
I know that admiral, what i meant is how much time it will take you to build that invasion force? And I think if they put planets they should really limit the maps to double the number of players. I don't want to be chasing my enemies everywhere before I can blockade their last occupied planet.

KoL ShadowJedi
08-27-2002, 12:04 PM
nice ideas mate, if only LA wud listen to our pleas

all this space and stuff would make a great senate map

KoL ShadowJedi
08-27-2002, 12:05 PM
surely it is not "that hard" to make a game, i mean if all us SWGBers got together and stuff we'd make it in 5 months lol
dont take me to seriously but come on

Crazyus Dogus
08-27-2002, 01:33 PM
What about a Rebellion meets RON game. Maybe I will post a thread about it.


BTW I am not saying GB is a bad game I just think it is a major step to better SW RTS's.

lukeiamyourdad
08-29-2002, 12:11 PM
How can we send ideas to LA?

I like Rebellion meets RON! Well not on the same unusually large map...

Admiral
08-29-2002, 12:51 PM
They sometimes read the forums. Or you could try to email them.

MadrixTF
09-16-2002, 05:06 AM
Personally, i would like to see what type of engine Total Annihilation 2 will use when it comes out- if it is as revolutionary as the first one it could be a nice benchmark for future strategy games like GB2, etc. I think that the variation in Civs could be better in terms of each civ has a preferred or unique attack strategy - it could keep players guessing...

Sithmaster_821
09-16-2002, 12:58 PM
How about lucasarts being creative and using their own engine with unique unit sets, etc. RoN is probably the last engine i would use.
Having said that i do like the idea of no houses, moral, surrendering etc. The game needs to 'flow' a lot better than it does at the moment as well.
I find researc more STRATEGICALLY ENHANCING and REALISTIC the moral or any of that other crap. Houses are guards against building an army too quickly, thus reducing the fun fatcor. If you want a game that lasts a week and then gets boring continue right along with your ideas.
Or AoM when it comes out.
AoM has less micro than this game.

Admiral Vostok
09-17-2002, 01:17 AM
Admiral, I love your supply line idea! I think that's the biggest thing holding back RTS at the moment, just about every one you have to mine resources. In reality, if an army sets up a base during a war, they don't send out workers to mine and farm the local area so they can build up troops. I think your example with the stormtrooper is great. I also think instead of building mechs on site, they should be transported in, like how in some of the Westwood games you can order in some tanks and they get delivered.

Here's my ideas combined with other ideas already suggested to make a totally original game (to my knowledge... maybe it has already been done?) :

:atat: You start with a command center, a few droids and a scout, just like now. The droids can build buildings for you. However, you can't build any more droids, if they are killed new droids will be delivered to you from the main fleet (see more further down).

:atat: A mess hall (or something similar) that supplies enough food for, say twenty guys. These would replace houses. Instead of the Trade Federation not having one, theirs should be a Droid Control Core.

:atat: Barracks lets you make people. You can build a trooper, a pilot or an officer. They all cost the one food ration, provided by the mess hall.

:atat: Troopers start with only a blaster pistol and no armour. You need to build an armoury to issue them with a rifle and armour, then from there you can upgrade weapons and armour. If the armoury is destroyed, troops keep their equipment but any newly commissioned troopers will just have their blaster pistols.

:atat: Pilots need to be trained in either flight training or mech training. Training can only be carried out if there is a training facility. If not, untrained pilots can still drive vehicles, but they are appalling bad at doing so. They are assigned either a starship or a mech (of which more later). Assault mechs require two pilots. If a mech or starship is destroyed, the pilot always escapes, but will probably get killed by enemy forces. Otherwise they are rescuable, and their experience will make them a better pilot. However, not everything is piloted by a pilot: scouts and mounted troopers operate in the same way as piloted vehicles but are only used by troopers (who need no training).

:atat: Officers have weak combat ability but are needed to command your force. They can either stay at the base or ride in a mech. They could provide morale or something which makes units in their vicinity fight better.

:atat: There is no limit to the number of mechs and starships you can build, although they cost money. The limiting factor is the number of pilots you have available. Unmanned starships and mechs obviously can't move. This way, you could have some in hangars for reserve when a pilot comes running home from his destroyed vehicle.

:atat: So far the buildings available are: A command centre, which I think should operate like a fortress, a barracks for building people, a mess hall to supply food, an armoury to provide armour, a training centre to train pilots, and probably some turrets. The next building is a starport, from where you contact the main fleet. The main fleet delivers requested mechs and starships in a transport. The route the transport travels must be free of enemies, or else the transport waits in orbit. Basically, as long as there are no enemies in the base they are free to deliver.

:atat: Now resources: I think instead of mining resources, money should be given on the basis of your military abilities. If a commander is doing poorly with what he's got, the main fleet isn't going to give him any more stuff. So, you get credits to spend on starships, mechs and buildings according to what percent of the map is in your control. For example, if you control 50% of the map, you get 50 credits a second or something. If you control 75%, you get 75 credits a second. You should get bonuses for holding specific landmarks, like Royal Palace of a planet, or a field of resources that could potentially be mined if you win the war. Of course there is a debate that the less you control, the more the main fleet will want to help your war effort, so it could work the other way around as well. I also think the number of officers you have contributes to the credits, because they'll be limited by the population cap. So if you have heaps of officers, the credits they supply will go to waste as you won't be able to build enough combat units to use the equipment you can buy.

Well it's long, but what do you think? Please no flames, they're becoming far to common on these boards. There are probably a few problems with my ideas, so point them out by all means.

simwiz2
09-17-2002, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821
How about lucasarts being creative and using their own engine with unique unit sets, etc. RoN is probably the last engine i would use.

I'm all for them creating their own engine also, but RoN would fit the SW universe a lot better than AoK, AoM, and many other engines. If they insist on using an already made engine RoN would be the best one IMO.

AoM has less micro than this game.

It has less economy micro. It has more micro in combat due to Myth Units and God Powers. It's not really too much of a clickfest, but it is definately less economy than AoK. Which is good to an extent, but if overdone it makes the game oversimplistic and boring. At least they still have a lot of technologies to research.

simwiz2
09-17-2002, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
:atat: Now resources: I think instead of mining resources, money should be given on the basis of your military abilities. If a commander is doing poorly with what he's got, the main fleet isn't going to give him any more stuff. So, you get credits to spend on starships, mechs and buildings according to what percent of the map is in your control. For example, if you control 50% of the map, you get 50 credits a second or something. If you control 75%, you get 75 credits a second. You should get bonuses for holding specific landmarks, like Royal Palace of a planet, or a field of resources that could potentially be mined if you win the war. Of course there is a debate that the less you control, the more the main fleet will want to help your war effort, so it could work the other way around as well. I also think the number of officers you have contributes to the credits, because they'll be limited by the population cap. So if you have heaps of officers, the credits they supply will go to waste as you won't be able to build enough combat units to use the equipment you can buy.

If this was done in addition to the current worker economy it could work as an added incentive to expand over more of the map, rather than just a small base and a small forward base. There would need to be a method to determine who controls what % of the map.

If your idea replaced economy completely, the game would become way too simple. It would be: get workers, plop buildings everywhere and pump out units.

Admiral Vostok
09-18-2002, 08:11 AM
If your idea replaced economy completely, the game would become way too simple. It would be: get workers, plop buildings everywhere and pump out units.

I agree. However, I propose a move away from workers mining resources. It just doesn't happen in the real world. I agree we need a better system than I've proposed, but I think the only way Lucasarts can make a really unique game is to NOT have workers mining resources. They all have it, so a game without it would truly be different.

lukeiamyourdad
09-18-2002, 05:30 PM
I think why they have workers mining ressources is exactly because they wanted a game not based around wars only and give it a little gestion part. We never she this in an Rts and it would be nice to see one (divided into an economy and war mode). Besides, in some maps or scenarios the main idea is to build a colony or a city so it is ok i guess. But i don't want them to get rid of economy.

Admiral Vostok
09-20-2002, 06:50 AM
I guess the thing that would make me accept resources more is if they were actually based on stuff we see in the movies. Also, and this is especially relevant to SWGB who just inherited the resource types from AOK, the resource cost has to have more to do with the unit you're getting. For example, this seems silly to me:
"Okay, lets cut down that tree over there for carbon, and chop up some of that bizarre green crystal over there. We'll then use those two things to build a bounty hunter."

So, here's another suggestion from me:
Workers still mine resources, however I think it should be a bit like the Westwood resource system: mine resources that are renewed over time, and all types of resources contribute to a single stockpile of money to spend. This would overcome the problem that bizarre resources buy things. Instead, the resources give you money with which to buy things. I think you should be able to stockpile resources, then sell them for money, and the amount you receive fluctuates like the stockmarket. So a good micromanager waits until the market is high and sells their stuff.
Now the resources: they should mostly be based on stuff we know is mined in the Star Wars galaxy. This could include Tibanna Gas, Naboo Core Plasma and Spice (remember, not all spice is illegal). Also we could have things like metal ore, which would be a common resource on Geonosis, for example. I think it is important that the resources renew because one thing I don't like about SWGB is that in long games you can harvest every single resource on the map, which is totally unrealistic in a war zone. Anyway, you stockpile Tibanna Gas, for example, then sell it when the price offered at the spaceport is good. I suppose food could be gathered, but only to sell as I'm sure Star Wars armies have packaged supplies that last a long time before you have to resort to eating mynocks.

The biggest problem I can see with this is that you can't get any money until you have a spaceport to trade from, so maybe the spoaceport equivalent should be the building you begin with?

tanka
09-20-2002, 08:09 AM
like somebody said before the planes should be like the ones in empire earth. they should have to be stored in hangars and brought out for use, or you could garrison them in capitol ships.

has anybody here played the empire earth: art of conquest beta? if you have i think the space games should be played like that, you build docks and you have giant ships that blow the **** out of eachother sort of like a naval battle, but in space.
some of you guys though, you sound like you think you are making the game yourselves.

Admiral Vostok
09-22-2002, 09:19 AM
some of you guys though, you sound like you think you are making the game yourselves.

LOL, yeah I wish I was! Since I first posted on this thread I haven't stopped thinking about how to make a really cool Star Wars RTS. Oh well, Lucasarts will just have to do it without me...

Crazy_dog no.3
09-22-2002, 11:47 AM
1) Bounty Hunters are not built, they're hired . Otherwise they won't be Bounty Hunters. Think of Nova as gold, which is used for few things but can be sold for lots of money. This money is used to hire them. Carbon makes sence. In real life, carbon is used for many things. In this game, it would be very realistic, bieng used to make extra armor and ammo.
2) Naboo Plasma is a Naboo-unique resource. U cannot mine Naboo-Plasma on Geonosis.
Tibanna Gas is found mostly on giants like Bespin and Ord Ibanna. U mine Tibanna gas on Yavin.
Spice, is found on worlds like Kessel. It's not very likely u find spice on Sullust.
Resources have to be more generic.

lukeiamyourdad
09-22-2002, 01:46 PM
I don't understand what you would do with naboo plasma or spices...

Sithmaster_821
09-22-2002, 01:54 PM
It has less economy micro. It has more micro in combat due to Myth Units and God Powers. It's not really too much of a clickfest, but it is definately less economy than AoK. Which is good to an extent, but if overdone it makes the game oversimplistic and boring. At least they still have a lot of technologies to research.
It has less unit micro as well. MUs require no promting to do their special, it is done randomly. There are slightly less units on the battlefield, which is another micro plus. Theres no micro intensive things like converting, etc. The god pwers add, at the most, 4 extra double clicks per game.

Admiral Vostok
09-22-2002, 08:11 PM
Resources have to be more generic.
But do they? Sure, in every other RTS they are, but Star Wars is different. I think that you mine a resource that might be unique to the planet, or particularly valuable on a planet, and you have to sell it to get your money. For example, when on Naboo you mine the plasma, which is sold offworld for energy and shield generators. On Kessel, you mine spice. On Tatooine, you might even set up a moisture farm to earn cash! I think it could work. Other planets you could just mine metal ore or something generic, I suppose. But I still don't like the idea that in a military base, raw minerals are processed and spent on site. In worked fine in AOK, because you're base was a village, but in SWGB they are quite often only military outposts.

Crazy_dog no.3
09-23-2002, 02:46 AM
Ah, but what if u are on other worlds?



And all this 1 resource stuff works fine in C&C, because they are RTS's that are meant to be played in less than 45 mns.


Finnaly, with the exeption of nova, what is wrong with these resources? I mean, the Rebels had to look after themselves on Hoth, and the thing they didn't want was selling off food supplies.

Admiral Vostok
09-23-2002, 11:42 PM
Okay, everyone is making valid points, so I've decided my one-resource approach is maybe too simple.

I've got another idea, but maybe this is too complex. Basically I'd like to move away from the concept of processing minerals in a military base.

How about resources are mined (though I think they should be replenished over time) similar to the way they are now, but for ore have some metallic-looking rocks instead of bright purple, and possibly no nova. The resources you mine are then traded for other useful materials such as ready-to-build construction materials, armour, weapons and other things. From that you can make your army. For example, to make a stormtrooper you need a blaster and some armour. So you trade your food and carbon for some blasters and armour, then spend a blaster, armour and one population making a trooper.

Only a little bit more complicated than the current system, but more realistic I think.

joesdomain
09-24-2002, 01:30 AM
I think they should add Star Wars Locales to the scenario editor. I would also like to see new star wars planets added to the single player mode.
I also think you should be able to make local native buildings and people neutral so they don't favor one civilization over the other.

Crazy_dog no.3
09-24-2002, 02:47 AM
I think that would require abit too much micromanagement.

MadrixTF
09-25-2002, 07:52 AM
I think that the current resource system is fine how it is. I happen to like Nova and Ore - even their colours. The area that would need improving in my opinion is the military strategy of the AI. If each civ could have a unique approach to battle then it would be more interesting. For example: Some civs may be better at guerrilla tactics, while others prefer massive organised offensive, etc. Although it could be argued that this should be up to the player to decide. But, variation in AI battle strategy would be nice...

AU_Andy_Ewok
09-25-2002, 08:14 AM
A few thing LA could do to make an original RTS not just things to add too CC.

Keep the rock, paper counter theory. Ie Mounted troopers kill padawans, troopers kill mounted troopers, mountys kill troopers. But make the counter units do more than just counter. eg make the grenade trooper, AA troopers, Sea destroyer etc all be good in there own right.

Make the sea to land/air combat balanced something i've yet to see in an RTS.

Talk to players through a headset.

Change the way you collect the four resources. Mix it all up. Naboo can only get nova from trade carts, Confederacy from building sith's to powship at the sith temple and TF get it from killing units.

What i would really like is it to be completly different playing one civ to the other. Not just tech tree but the way they do things.

The should be more Team/civ bonuses like Gungans being able to walk through water and fish faster and TF to be able to collect +15 res not +10 etc.

Maybe the civs start in T1 when they go to t2 they get to choose a jedi path of an imperial leader to follow. One will give good defence, one good econ and one good for attacking units.

If every game was different from the last it would be the best RTS.

Admiral Vostok
09-25-2002, 08:50 AM
Madrix, I like your idea about the different tactics. Rebels would definitely be a strong guerilla civ. When I heard Rebels had strong troopers I thought it was a bit dumb. In every stand up fight between stormtroopers and rebels the stormtroopers win. Okay, so they had AT-ATs in the Battle of Hoth, but Rebels needed Ewoks to win the Battle of Endor! I guess I'mk mostly referring to the boarding of the Tantive IV, when Rebels had the strategic position but the stormtroopers still slaughtered them.

Anyway, I've strayed a bit, but Rebels DO have good guerillas.

Andy, some of the stuff you've suggested is still just add-ons to CC. But I agree that the went a bit overboard with the anti-unit-units in SWGB.

Arthur2
10-19-2002, 11:37 AM
Seriously
I still like M$ Game Engines better....
you just have to make it less obvious...
I think JK2 did a great job...it's built from Q3 Engine but then it's alot different from Q3

Btw, SW:GB is pretty much made by Microsoft
Lucasarts asked for help from Microsoft...
they didn't put too much time into it
thatz why...
doesn't matter which game engine it uses, as long as it's 45 degrees like a normal RTS game...
the most important part is that they need to put more time into development

Sithmaster_821
10-19-2002, 03:24 PM
Maybe the civs start in T1 when they go to t2 they get to choose a jedi path of an imperial leader to follow. One will give good defence, one good econ and one good for attacking units.
Sounds like AoM to me

Arthur2
10-20-2002, 12:43 AM
Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

Sounds like AoM to me

It does
it's good idea though
gives the game even more variation

MadrixTF
10-25-2002, 07:52 AM
I like the idea of Mining/Gathering Resources - i know that you don't mine resources during War, but you could see the early Tech levels as Pre-War buildup and once you have stores of resources then you can use them for building your Military and "feeding" your War. That is why i like the Econ part of RTS - you can't go to war unless you have resources to do so. Most large battles in SWGB happen in late Tech levels anyway and that is when the Pre-War / Econ buildup is nearly finished anyway...

Arthur2
10-25-2002, 08:07 AM
eh
tha'ts only partially true...
u'll run out of resource quickly if u only use what is stored from the previous tech lvls...
u need to continue mining

u guys have any ideas for resource gathering?

Admiral Vostok
10-26-2002, 07:52 AM
I was thinking maybe instead of having workers mine you just build a mining building over resources, and each mining building would cost something to run.

I'd make resources something generic, and more realistic than bright green nova and bright purple ore. I think I'd have metal ore deposits and gas pockets. The metal ore would be on the ground, and you might have to use a prospector or something to find it. You then get a worker to build a refinery over the top of it. The reources would be essentially renewable, but each refinery can only get a certain amount so you have to expand and build more for a good economy. Similarly with gas, except you need to build a floating refinery that looks a bit like Cloud City to get at the gas. You could also research upgrades for each refinery indivdually so they can get more resources.

Keep in mind it's just a generic gas, not tibanna gas.

Arthur2
10-26-2002, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
I was thinking maybe instead of having workers mine you just build a mining building over resources, and each mining building would cost something to run.

pardon me for deleting....

well...hmmm
in fact i've seen a game very similar to the idea u proposed
and it's called "enemy nation"
in that u just build mining structure over natural resource and then u'll get the resource autometically
but then the game also includes refinary, smelter...and also trucks for transporting...
hmmm :P
the natural resource thing...it may work , maybe let workers garrison to mine faster???

lukeiamyourdad
10-26-2002, 02:52 PM
That's actually a nice idea. But we should keep workers building buildings.

Arthur2
10-27-2002, 01:46 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
That's actually a nice idea. But we should keep workers building buildings.

wait which one u talking about?
building mining structure and let workers garrison to increase mining speed?

or the Enemy Nations smelter, refinery thing?
the smelter, refinery does some cool doesn't
but then in that game, there are so many natural resources, Coal, Iron, Oil, Wood, Xilium (some ghetto nova crystal thing, used to make tanks)
and u need smelter to make steel, and ur trucks willl have to transport coal and iron to smelter in order to produce steel
and...wood, just cut them down
oil needs to be refined by refinery
and....guess that's all
oh yeah, there is Farm , too
the farm will produce food autometically, as long as they are on flat and fertile ground...no replantation
and there are powerplants too...

well Enemy Nation is kinda different tho
food is only used to feed ur colonists (eh u are on a space mission), not for troop building
u will only need wood, steel and xilium for building tanks..
and...ur tanks and other military units will not operate if u don't have enuff population (maybe be not enuff apartments, not enuff food...blah blah blah)

if we want the same stuff in SWGB 2, gotta simplify it to just mining structure and farms...otherwise it'd be too complicated

lukeiamyourdad
10-27-2002, 03:50 PM
wait which one u talking about?

Yes building mining structures and garrisson workers in it.

MadrixTF
10-28-2002, 06:21 AM
Arthur2 - Obviously you would keep gathering resources - it just becomes less of a focus in late Techs - most of your resource gatherers should be set up and continue without much help / micro...

Summary: Early Tech = Econ focused, Late Tech = War focused -that was all that i was trying to point out...

;)

Arthur2
10-29-2002, 04:07 AM
yeah....
i agree
so , why not use mining structures?

Admiral Vostok
10-29-2002, 06:40 AM
Yeah, garrisoning workers is a good idea. But there would have to be a limit of ten or something for each refinery.

I like this idea because it also adds some protection to your resources, you can't just have a scout come up and piss off your workers so they don't mine. You could maybe even get an upgrade later on in the game for the refineries to have an attack, like a weak turret as protection.

I'd like to see farms go in SWGB2. They don't fit that well into Star Wars. I think two simple resources, metal ore (on the ground) and gas (in the air) would be good (maybe a bit similar to StarCraft, but different enough, and not as similar as nova = gold, ore = stone). Can anyone think of a third or even fourth resource that would fit really well in SWGB2?

lukeiamyourdad
10-29-2002, 06:21 PM
I don't think we should add a defensive weapon for refinery and stuff.

I think we should keep food(except for trade feds)

I can't think of another one.

Arthur2
10-30-2002, 04:16 AM
well IF u gonna add defense to refineries...then don't make it too strong...

argh, two resource is too limited...it will turn this game into a blizzard-style game (in a sense).

Maybe Food, Metal, Gas and some sort of Crystal?
or maybe just Food, Metal , Gas and Carbon
I don't think it matters that much though...

lukeiamyourdad
10-30-2002, 05:40 PM
I think food, carbon, gas and some kind of money or credits.

joesdomain
10-31-2002, 12:22 AM
Lucasarts should make their own engine with star wars movies units in mind instead of trying to copy ideas from other RTS games like command and conqurer, etc. I thought it was stupid to have units like artillery and pummels in the game. It is obvious they wanted to copy other RTS games. It looked fake and cheesy. I would rather buy and play a Star Wars RTS game using star wars specific units. Instead of following other RTS game companies specfications, they should devise their own. No offense I love a good 3-D game but RTS games that are 2-D are more about graphics and sound. You get more types of units for each civilization when you use a 2-D. That is why I like RTS games that are 2-D.

Arthur2
10-31-2002, 12:47 AM
Originally posted by joesdomain
Lucasarts should make their own engine with star wars movies units in mind instead of trying to copy ideas from other RTS games like command and conqurer, etc. I thought it was stupid to have units like artillery and pummels in the game. It is obvious they wanted to copy other RTS games. It looked fake and cheesy. I would rather buy and play a Star Wars RTS game using star wars specific units. Instead of following other RTS game companies specfications, they should devise their own. No offense I love a good 3-D game but RTS games that are 2-D are more about graphics and sound. You get more types of units for each civilization when you use a 2-D. That is why I like RTS games that are 2-D.

Can we not pick up this ghetto conversation AGAIN?
Have you ever played "FORCE COMMANDER"?
it's awful, it's so obvious that Lucasarts' programming team is weak in contrast with Microsoft, Blizzard and other companies...
ALL the recent lucasarts game are designed by other companies...
JK2 - Q3 Engine
SWGB - AOK Engine
Galaxies - designed by Sony

and same thing with the clone wars, bounty hunter ...
There is nothing wrong with using someone else's engine
JK2 and Unreal Tournament are both using Q3 Engine
It's just that they need to put in more time to develop their games

This is like the 8th time I've typed this crap
SO PLZ stop saying stuff like "I want to see lucasarts make their own engine"....I would much rather see a well-developed LA game based on someone else's engine than to see some crappy game made with some lucasarts engine...

Crazy_dog no.3
10-31-2002, 04:55 AM
BTW Arthur, what does ghetto mean, I still don't get it?

Also FoCom was not terrible , yeah it was bad but definetely not that bad.

Finally I think resoucres should be (I'm basing this on RoN again, sorry) Food, Tech (from Knowledge), Ore, Carbon, Credits and maybe something else but maybe not, to avoid further micro.


Look out for my list of "special resources" soon.:)

MadrixTF
10-31-2002, 08:11 AM
In my country a ghetto is a township / neighborhood where poor people live (houses with tin roofs, bad or no water / electricity supply, etc.) - but i don't know what meaning Arthur2 is applying to it?

I think the resource allocation is fine - Food, Carbon, Ore and NovaCrystals - i like it - it is a well balanced resource selection...

lukeiamyourdad
10-31-2002, 05:17 PM
In my country ghetto is a place with a small ethnic community that only lives there and does not go anywere else, almost forced to stay there.

The best example is the ghetto of Warsaw in Poland during WWII.
The city was divided into two parts, the ghetto A and the ghetto B. People who were able to work lived in the ghetto A and the elders and kids lived in the ghetto B. People who lived there were not necessarily jews.

Teabag
10-31-2002, 05:48 PM
I got some ideas for SWGB2:

*LA could get away with using the Genie engine again if they really push the specs and this time make the game 3d graphics enabled. The 3d graphics card would handle the laser effects, lightsabres, explosions, trail and wake effects, water effects and enviromental effects.

*Weather effects powered by a 3d graphics card. Wind, Snow, Rain.

*Keep the 6 original civs, make the 2 CC civs units available to the
Trade Fed and Rebellion and add 4 distinct civs. Take a pic. I say, Mon Cal, Trandoshan, Twi'lek, Bothan.

*Keep Ore, Nova, and Carbon (What do you think an AT-AT is made of thin air?) but instead of picking berries and fishing, they should replace food with vapor. Instead of Farms players would build moisture collectors, or thermal gas collectors or something like that which produced a gas that is used to power engines and such.

*Keep air and navy units, Trawlers should become repair units for naval ships. Allow aircrafts to return to the airbase for repairs...they could be queded up inside of it. Airbases would be able to repair 10 units at a time.

*More stealth units

*They have lots of leaders for each civ...Rune Hakoo and such. Give each leader an Attitude. Thrawn and Vader are aggressive, and build massive amounts of units; Nute Gunray uses tricky tactics like pummel drops, jedi rush and such. Queen Amidala and Naboo leaders are pacifist..will only retaliate when attacked and fight to gain ground and hold it. This gives the leaders more flavor instead of the civ just having a name attached to it.

*A Relay Station building that is achieved at Tech 4. Allows players to call in orbital bombardment that does massive damage over a wide area. Requires a spotter unit.

*Units should turn in full 360 degree motion. Mechs should tilt when they go uphil and other animation enhancements.

*Air units should fly in a circle when they are not being given an order. But air units should still spot up and shoot instead of straffe...this keeps them from straying into range of harmful AA turrets when they are focused on something else.

*Bongo subs stay submerged when attacking. All gungan ships should have the ability to submerge, but maybe only the bongo can move when submerged.

* Anti-Personnel device to stop/break up massive troop formations. Mine layer unit.

*Retain side view perspective

*Bounty Hunters become available the same time as Jedi. Blaster Cannons become avialable the same times as Fortresses.

*Unique jedi/sith for each civ..doesnt have to be of that race. I.e. gungans do not necessarily have to have a gungan jedi. Theirs could be Qui-gon Gin.

*Day/Night cycles

*More outer space terrain...less earth-like terrain.

I they did all this for SWGB2 it would definitely feel and play a lot different and would be very original.

Crazy_dog no.3
10-31-2002, 05:50 PM
Ah. So what's this got to do with Star Wars? :confused:

lukeiamyourdad
10-31-2002, 06:54 PM
*Keep the 6 original civs, make the 2 CC civs units available to the rebellion

why? for the last ******* time, the confederacy is NOT THE REBELLION!!!!!!!


I have to disagree with space bombardment. In C&C Tiberian Sun, you had an Ion Cannon and that really killed the fun because you could do a lot of damage just sitting on your ass.

Stealth units are not so good. They would greatly affect gameplay because you will just mass them up.

Bounty Hunters should not be available at the same time as Jedi Padawans because the Padawan will be way too weak against bounties.

Oh and the graphic changes and weather effects are fun butthink about what kind of comp you would need!!!!!!!

Admiral Vostok
11-01-2002, 12:58 AM
Here's what I think for resources: get rid of green Nova and purple Ore. It just looks too "cheap sci-fi TV show"-ish.

So here's the resources I can think of:

:atat: Food: Although farms are a bit out of place, food is a standard resource. I think perhaps more of a focus on the animal nursery idea than building farms would work well for Star Wars. Of course there would need to be more animals available on the map. Animal nurseries actually suit my "resource building" idea above quite well.

:atat: Carbon: This fits moderately well into Star Wars. However, I'd like it to be brown rather than bright blue. Also, trees should somehow be renewed - I'm a big advocate for self-renewable resources. With my "resource building" idea, perhaps a resource building could be built in the middle of a forest or near a forest, and you get a flow of carbon dependent on how many trees are within a certain radius. However, trees can only be "mined" by one resource building at a time.

:atat: Metal Ore: I'm a big fan of this. See my info above about it. Basically it's underground, you need to detect it, then build a resource building on top of it.

:atat: Gas: The same as metal ore except in the air. Needs to be detected, etc.

:atat: Credits: This could work like nova at the moment, except you can't mine raw credits from the ground. So they are needed to buy some things (most likely bounty hunters) but you have to trade other resources for them.

:atat: Spice: Keep in mind not all spice is illegal. It's only good for trading for credits, you can't make anything with mined spice. Similar extraction technique to Metal Ore and Gas.


Resource buildings would only get an attack in later tech levels, or far down the tech tree. Even then, it would be really weak, like trooper level or even just scout level. Then again, it's probably better without. But it's just an idea.

Arthur2
11-01-2002, 01:19 AM
LOL
I don't know about you guys
but some teenagers use "ghetto" instead of "low"
force commander was....BAD
I'd much rather see lucasarts put time into development w/ someone else's engine than to waste time trying to develop their own...since they dun have enuff tech to do so

MadrixTF
11-01-2002, 05:01 AM
I think with your resource ideas we would all be spending WAY too much time on micro-econ-management and not enough time on Strategy...

Arthur2: Thanks for the clarification of the term "ghetto" in your context - it clears things up a LOT. i can see how the slang-version of ghetto could mean "low"... especially in my country!

Crazy_dog no.3
11-01-2002, 09:44 AM
Thanks for the explanation, Arthur2.;)


Vostok-
Food: Yeah, I agree. But we should still keep farms, or the troops won't get a balanced deit.:D
Carbon: That's in RoN! I like it exept for 1 resource building at a time. I think it should be like 3 per a designated area.
Ore: Keep ore as it is.
Gas: WTF? Sorry but this is among most ---------------(line cut by censors)----------------- GB2 ideas I've ever heard.
Credits: I agree to credits as a resource, but IMO u should only be able to get it through trade.
Spice: I think given the fact that Spice is found on only a few worlds in the galaxy like Kessel, it should be in but as a "special resource"

lukeiamyourdad
11-01-2002, 09:03 PM
Gas- I am not sure so correct me if I am wrong, Gas could be used as a fuel......

Arthur2
11-01-2002, 09:46 PM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad
Gas- I am not sure so correct me if I am wrong, Gas could be used as a fuel......

ok, I am gonna pull out Enemy Nations again just to give you guys some ideas
in Enemy Nations, If you run out of Gasoline, your vehicles will slow down to like only 10% of its usual speed... I personally don't think it's a good idea because when I build an army of 150 tanks and cannons, everytime I move them like across the map , I burn 5000 units of gas (per minute) and not to mention that my trucks and cranes are still operating...and the worst thing is that oil wells mine really fast....if you don't look for new ones you'll be short on gasoline very soon.... It's cool idea, I just don't like it....slows down the game


Also some AoM updates:
the farm provides infinite food, no replantation, as long as you have workers working on them you'll get food

I think for the minig why don't we just let workers garrison in the minig structure....easier that way

lukeiamyourdad
11-01-2002, 09:50 PM
I guess you misunderstood me. Gas could be use as fuel. When you are building your units, it will require an amount of gas but not much.

Crazy_dog no.3
11-02-2002, 05:54 AM
Gas as a fuel=Too much micro

Arthur2
11-02-2002, 08:35 AM
If you are talking about the way people use gas in Starcraft
then yeah why not? gas is just another type of resource

I think the current resource structure is pretty good
food, carbon, metal and gas? dunno
I think just keep these resources simple...

Admiral Vostok
11-03-2002, 12:27 AM
Crazy dog, what's wrong with gas? It'd be mined like on Bespin, but it doesn't have to be tibanna gas. Surely there are other valuable generic gases out there in Star Wars that could potentially be mined?

Also, what's the carbon mining like in RoN? How does it work? Is it exactly the same as I proposed?

Crazy_dog no.3
11-03-2002, 05:03 AM
Well the idea for garrisoning workers in a Carbon Processesing Center provided they're near woods/carbon rocks and then getting a flow of carbon depending on the amount of trees/carbon rocks isn't all that bad.;)

Admiral Vostok
11-08-2002, 09:29 PM
Perhaps you could also make it so instead of building the "plantation" carbon processing building, you could just get workers to cut down trees for quick carbon early in the game. However, this would chop down the tree for good, just like now, so there are huge benefits to eventually building a plantation building.

joesdomain
11-09-2002, 02:13 AM
Do not follow the path of the other RTS games and make the next RTS game a 3-D ground battle. 2-D is the best and you get more types of units and more units period with 2-D. I could care less about 3-D graphics. They make the next RTS game 3-D and I won't buy it because my computer will be out of date and I don't have a 3-D accelarator card. The next RTS game needs to stick to canon star wars units. Quit copying RTS games and have unecessary units like pummels, aircruisers, and undeployed cannons. They need to follow their own path and make their own engine and use star wars movie units.

Crazy_dog no.3
11-09-2002, 06:54 AM
OK joe, 3D might not work very well as of now and the near future, so u may just have that right.


But why are pummels, for example, not canon? This is a game made by Lucas arts (note the Lucas). This would also mean all content is approved by George Lucas. The only cases to avoid things u consider EU are:
1) Trying to predict what happens in Episode 3.
2) If u're running out of money.

Arthur2
11-09-2002, 10:12 AM
i think 2d and 3d doesn't matter at all
as long as it's 45 degrees (like in AOK/SWGB)
45 degrees is the best for strategy games

well, 3D...
go play AoM and u'll see the control is not that different from AoK, but it's just a lot more detailed...more realistic under 3D
there are more variations
WHY?
because 3D games are using 3D engines generating 3D models everytime u move...u only need to color the models
look at some Action games for example, cutting off enemy's body parts, the part u cut off is depended on where u swing, there is no limitation...that's the good thing about 3D engine (applies to strategy games, too, well maybe not cutting off body parts, but other stuff....)
but for 2D, u have to draw a pic for EVERY move ur unit makes
that's not very efficient....and it's very limited
besides, there is no doubt that 3D looks better than 2D, take AoM and AoK for example.

Crazy_dog no.3
11-09-2002, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Arthur2

look at some Action games for example, cutting off enemy's body parts, the part u cut off is depended on where u swing, there is no limitation...that's the good thing about 3D engine (applies to strategy games, too, well maybe not cutting off body parts, but other stuff....)
but for 2D, u have to draw a pic for EVERY move ur unit makes
that's not very efficient....and it's very limited
besides, there is no doubt that 3D looks better than 2D, take AoM and AoK for example.


SOF2 ... *mouth waters*

lukeiamyourdad
11-09-2002, 03:05 PM
You have to think about the fact that 3d rts need good comp.In the future you will need an even better comp.

Anyway, 3d rts are only for eye candy, you don't need that. It's always better to have an overall view of the map.

Arthur2
11-09-2002, 11:57 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
that was a funny one
it requires good comp, no duh
but then ppl buy new comps!
if u really want to play games on crappy computers , then go play Starcraft or some DOS games...
go upgrade ur comp

this is called EVOLUTION
look, all the new Strategy games use 3D engine
is there any possiblity that SWGB 2 will still be 2D?
uh...no
unless Lucasarts has stupid marketting plan

and u know wut?
go play AoM and compare it AoK ok?
stop making stupid statements until u've played some 3D strategy games
3D graphics is always better

Crazy_dog no.3
11-10-2002, 06:32 AM
Yeah! Developers should stop babysitting crappy comps and move on!

Admiral Vostok
11-10-2002, 08:08 AM
I agree. Face it, too play the latest games you've got to have the latest computer. It's as simple as that. Now I'm not made of money, but I have to say that keeping a game simple so it will work on an old computer is silly.

Crazy Dog, just because the company is LUCASArts doesn't mean George Lucas personally approves everything that comes out. Pummels are definitely not canon, there is no question about it. Why? They aren't in the movies. That is the definition of canon: in the movies. Pummels were not in the movies, so pummels are not canon.

Not every Star Wars fan likes the EU. I've said it many times before, and I'll say it again - I think EU pollutes the Star Wars Universe. Keep things the same as the movies, it works for other games, why not Star Wars?

Crazy_dog no.3
11-10-2002, 11:22 AM
There could be a faint chance that pummels would be in Episode 3...?

I mean look at Gungan air. Before AotC everyone thought it was some crap made up by LA.

lukeiamyourdad
11-10-2002, 02:09 PM
Whoa people! I never said I wanted a 2d rts!

I just said that it wasn't necessary(except for marketing).

I'll enjoy a 2d SWGB 2 not that I want one.

Arthur2
11-11-2002, 04:09 AM
check out AoM
3D engine, neat graphics

Admiral Vostok
11-11-2002, 07:22 AM
It doesn't matter if it could be in Episode III, it is not in Episodes I, II, IV, V or VI so is not canon. If it is in Episode III it will be canon, but until then it is not.

And I doubt it will be, because battles in Star Wars usually take place from range, with blasters, so that when the Jedi get out their lightsabres and go hand-to-hand its a bit more meaningful.

And some Star Wars fans like me would have recognised the Gungan's air from early concepts for Cloud City as drawn by Ralph McQuarrie, sometime before 1980.

Crazy_dog no.3
11-11-2002, 12:48 PM
Well, at liest we sorted out the arguement about Gungan air.:)



However, even though sea units have only appeared like 2 or 3 times in the movies, they MUST be canon. How else would the Trade Fed have attacked Otoh Gunga (Yes they could have used air but the good commander would use sea for such a mission).
Also the Empire and Republic need to have sea units to keep order on worlds such as Naboo.

lukeiamyourdad
11-11-2002, 05:51 PM
Originally posted by Arthur2
check out AoM
3D engine, neat graphics

Damn it! I never said I don't want a 3d RTS! I just said that it was not NECESSARY for ME to have a SWGB2 completely 3d!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Arthur2
11-12-2002, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad


Damn it! I never said I don't want a 3d RTS! I just said that it was not NECESSARY for ME to have a SWGB2 completely 3d!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

well that means u can accept 3D, right?
well anywayz we should focus on the project plans of Lucasarts'
if lucas is gonna cut this project then there is no point discussing

MadrixTF
11-12-2002, 04:51 AM
Well, i'm certainly NOT going to buy a new computer evertime a new game comes out - if it doesn't run on my computer - i won't buy it - simple. In my country computers are expensive and don't warrant upgrading more than once every 3 years.

I run a PIII 550 with 128Mb RAM and a 16Mb Diamond Stealth card (i know it sounds pre-historic) and i can run all the applications and games that are important to me. This industry is always finding ways to keep us spending on hardware / software - but actually it is not neccessary at all.
Example: Microsoft released Windows XP and yes, it is not as fast as it should be on my PC, so guess what? I use Windows 2000! It works just as well and i don't require a P4 with 512MB RAM, etc.

btw, i even run 3D rendering applications and games on this "old" PC of mine...



:D

Arthur2
11-12-2002, 11:20 AM
eh well it's time to change right?
it's been 3 years
even my comp is aged almost 1 and half year already

my comp is a P!!!-1Ghz, 512 RAM, and a crappy TNT2
well most of the time it's the TNT2 that's slowing down the game, when i play SWGB it lags sometimes cauz my video card only has 32 mb ram
well i guess i'll upgrade my comp in probably another year

i have another comp , 450 MhZ , aged 5 yrs
urs should be aged sometime around that so yeah, actually u don't need to upgrade, u just need a better video card
like i do
3D games don't require fast CPU and enormous amount of ram
u just need a decent card, for example Geforce 3 is decent, and if u have a lot of cash, buy the new Radiant or something

lukeiamyourdad
11-12-2002, 05:06 PM
Not really. I have a AMD K-6 400 and it lags when I play SP at more than 3.

Arthur2
11-13-2002, 03:09 AM
aiyo
don't worry
ur next comp is gonna be 2200 MhZ +
btw u gonna say "oh god gimme gimme giimme more 3D"

lukeiamyourdad
11-13-2002, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Arthur2
aiyo
don't worry
ur next comp is gonna be 2200 MhZ +
btw u gonna say "oh god gimme gimme giimme more 3D"

Yeah of course:D !

Admiral Vostok
11-14-2002, 04:05 AM
Well my comp is only Celeron 500, and it runs fine. Of course, it used to take about ten minutes to load a game in Jedi Outcast. However, if they brought out a GOOD 3D Star Wars RTS, I'd probably consider upgrading if I couldn't play it.

lukeiamyourdad
11-14-2002, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Admiral Vostok
Well my comp is only Celeron 500, and it runs fine. Of course, it used to take about ten minutes to load a game in Jedi Outcast. However, if they brought out a GOOD 3D Star Wars RTS, I'd probably consider upgrading if I couldn't play it.

A 3D rts needs a very good comp. Even if they say you don't need much to play, you'll need a good one believe me.

Arthur2
11-15-2002, 03:11 AM
Originally posted by lukeiamyourdad


A 3D rts needs a very good comp. Even if they say you don't need much to play, you'll need a good one believe me.

yeah
well 500 MHz is good enuff, 256 m ram is good enuff
the most important thing is ....ur video card
if u have some crap like TNT2 and Savage 3D (these are the ones i have)
u better buy some tyte card like Geforce 4, nForce, whatever...
just something better than TNT2...
most of the time the game laggs cauz the video card doesn't have enuff ram and speed to process ur graphics.... (yeah , ur video card does the graphics, that's why it's called a VIDEO card ):D

MadrixTF
11-15-2002, 10:02 AM
Well, my Diamond Stealth 16MB Video Card handles 3D pretty well, maybe it is the design of the card rather than the VRAM - after all Diamond Stealth was designed for 3D Business apllications - but it handles great on games too!

Nevertheless, i can see that i will have to upgrade next year - it will be reaching my 3 year limit soon!

Arthur2
11-15-2002, 12:17 PM
well....
my comp is aged only 1.5 years
well yeah maybe....
it depends on what kind of ram it is, too
i just went and check the price
Geforce 4 - 64 MB costs only 2600 NT --> about $70.00
:P

lukeiamyourdad
11-15-2002, 10:45 PM
I think today they sell old GeForce3 64 MB at less then that, but you mean $70.00 US right?

Arthur2
11-16-2002, 06:09 AM
yeah
70 us dollars
Geforce 4 is better :)

lukeiamyourdad
11-16-2002, 12:05 PM
Yeah I know but there isn't a lot of differences between GeForce3 64MB and GeForce4 64MB.

Dark Merkaba
12-02-2002, 03:39 AM
have any of you played Deadlock? its a pretty outdated game but had a very good idea. you had a whole sh!t load of technologies and it took around three or so to build a specific unit. so some times you woulndt have all the units. the only thing that sucked a$$ was the fighting part. you hit attack and watched, you couldnt do anything. if lucus made a game around those ideas, where there were like 50 (just picking a number) units, and (again just picking a number) 300 technologies, and (bla bla bla) 40 different buildings, you would need 2 specific buildings, and three specific technoligies to create a unit. this would make the game more diverse and go deeper into the star wars universe. "how the hell do the blasters work? o, the laser crystal (?) focuses the beam" specific buildings have specific techs they can research.

that and OH MY GOD!!! whats wrong with you people? you are all getting too specific with the units. "well, in EP 1 this happened, so, that means ONLY that can happen" if you were to hold the entire game to that then why do all the jets in the game hover? never once in the movie did i see a tie fighter hover, or a x-wing just chill in the air.
in real life a super star destroyer couldnt enter the atmosphere. well, the game isnt real life, its a game, a universe made up by a man. how do you know that a star destroyer cant reach low orbit and fly around. have only jets able to attack it. that sounds reasonable doesnt it? anti air troopers cant send a shoulder mounted missile into low orbit. maybe have an upgrade that lets missile turrets shoot them down. same with the rebels, the mon calmaries do the same.