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View Full Version : ProMod Beta 2 -- Released!


ArtifeX
09-01-2002, 05:41 PM
***UPDATE***
fileplanet.com now has Beta 2 available for download:
http://www.fileplanet.com/dl/dl.asp?/3dactionplanet/jediknight/promod_beta_2.zip


fileshack.com now has ProMod beta 2 available for download:
http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=837
***UPDATE***

ProMod Beta 2 is finished, and has been sent to both jkii.net and fileshack.com. The files should be available any time now. There's a HUGE list of changes, that you can check out at the official site, which I am now updating.

Check it out:

http://www.oculis.org/promod/

If you can't wait for the sluggish jkii.net files section to update, try logging into the official game server (ip in my sig below), which has autodownload enabled. There's quite a few people in there right now, actually.

So what's changed? Tons. Here's an abbreviated, generalized list:

- New Offensive/Defensive Bonus system and Bonus Meters in the HUD.
- All movement now has an effect on your Combat Bonuses--watch your Meters as you move around.
- Force Sight now has difficulty seeing higher levels of Mind Trick.
- Force Sight's ability to dodge sniper fire is now dependent upon the Combat Strength Crosshair (CSC).
- Saber Defense's ability to block sniper fire is now dependent on the CSC.
- New console variables allow you to customize the ProMod HUD elements, including the color of the CSC.
- All saber damages (including saber throw) have been increased by 50% versus anyone wielding a gun.
- All private FFA duels end with the winner receiving 100 health and 25 shields.
- All reported bugs from Beta 1 have been fixed.
- Many more...

There you have it. Enjoy, and as always, contact me with any comments or suggestions: arsartifex@msn.com


I'll be updating this post with links as soon as i have them.

zerowingzero
09-01-2002, 06:05 PM
DOWNLOAD IT NOW.

Right now.


Seriously, why havent you downloaded it yet?


why are you reading this and not downloading it?

Twins of Doom
09-01-2002, 08:22 PM
why am i not downloading it...because i'm in pain and can only type with one hand.....i don't want blood on my keyboard

here's what i said to my friend on msn because i'm too lazy to type it up again...

"Ow says:
andrew + i were returning a movie for mom + dad
Ow says:
down the hill where it's impossible to go slow
Ow says:
andrew slows down
Ow says:
i slow down because otherwise i'll hit andrew
Ow says:
i'm still going faster than andrew so i have to resort to the front break too.....owwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
Ow says:
brake*"

owwwwww

zerowingzero
09-01-2002, 09:04 PM
That's why you must wear biking gloves, and use seperate identies.



...Damn Twins...

ArtifeX
09-01-2002, 10:50 PM
Ok guys, the file's available at fileshack.com now. Here's the link:

http://www.fileshack.com/file.x?fid=837

Quiwan
09-02-2002, 12:44 AM
I think your mod is great and am looking forward to future releases. I like the new defense/attack meters on the sides they add more dept to saber fighting.

Maybe some food for though on future releases: Increase damage against a saber thrower. If his saber is out of his hand and a person strikes them it should take significant damage or kill with one shot. I donít know if you implemented this in the newest version.

Hereís something more for looks of the game (a pet peeve of mine) when the character is running he always has his saber over to his side whether it is forward/back or side to side. It just looks to me as if he canít block anything holding a saber like this. Is there any way that the model can hold the stance of the swing while running, I think this would add a nice look/feel to the game (Just a thought).

Overall if you didnít release any more I would be totally happy. Random saber swing just doesnít work against a skilled/timed person with this mod, thank goodness for you. Bringing back the essence of JediKnight.


JediKnight

GrEEk_OuTcAsT
09-02-2002, 09:21 AM
Great work Artifex. You have saved JK2 Multiplayer.

But I don't understand how the 2 indicators on the screen work. In your site you don't explain a lot about them.

Looking for more servers. Especially European ones!

ArtifeX
09-02-2002, 11:47 AM
Good thought on the saber throwers taking more damage. Expect that to be in Beta 3.

I'm updating the site to explain the new bonus meters in-depth. Check back sometime later today for a detailed discussion of some all the major features of promod.

Orangina_Rouge
09-02-2002, 01:15 PM
Great work ......tested it yesterday on your server and it s different from promod 1 .......i will not say it s good or bad since it s not necessarily a bad thing to adapt
Only thing i found maybe too much is Red stance footspeed being faster since u can chain it and it was good in promod 1 for people who knew actually HOW to use it ...but need to test it further

By the way your server was unavailable yesterday while we were playing with some ppl and it s still down ......hope it will back soon :)

ArtifeX
09-02-2002, 01:28 PM
Yeah, the official game server's down right now because ILAN dropped the ball, apparently. I can't get any of the admin stuff to work right now, and nobody from ILAN has returned any of my emails. It'll hopefully come back online soon. I'll post when it does.

Originally posted by Orangina_Rouge
Great work ......tested it yesterday on your server and it s different from promod 1 .......i will not say it s good or bad since it s not necessarily a bad thing to adapt
Only thing i found maybe too much is Red stance footspeed being faster since u can chain it and it was good in promod 1 for people who knew actually HOW to use it ...but need to test it further

By the way your server was unavailable yesterday while we were playing with some ppl and it s still down ......hope it will back soon :)

mikus_aurelius
09-02-2002, 02:32 PM
I reallly like way that the attack bonus goes up as you fall on someone. However, it seems almost impossible to connect before you hit the ground. Maybe you should consider having the falling bonus stick around for a quarter of a second after you land. Or maybe I should quit whining and learn to time it better :)

also, is damage tied to the attack meter or just chance to penetrate defenses? I assume its not, but i could swear I had some one hit kills last night walking foreward in red stance.

All in all, love the mod. Thanks a ton artifex.

Rad Blackrose
09-02-2002, 04:31 PM
While I do like the new attack/defensive bonuses, why do I feel I am in a Department of Defense designed fighter jet all of a sudden? Soon we will have a HUD for everything. ;p

I especially love the gunner balance. Sure, I just light up Dark Rage and fire away with the E11 or repeater while picking off everyone, but when I take a slash, that HURTS. Also, I noticed that the chances of pulling guns have increased according to distance.

If we get the chance, I would like to test the new sniper/FS relationship on the server Arti.

zerowingzero
09-02-2002, 04:35 PM
Yeah about that dodgeing, i didnt know that it was always on, that is a much better inprovement from the old system of having to activate it, but from what i've read you never mentioned it in your readme.

Psionic Jedi
09-02-2002, 06:49 PM
Er just came back from a session on your server (did horrible by the way, medium is no longer uber-leet :( ) and someone named Bizarre turned it into a 30 frag duel... Everyone got pissed and left.

Also is it just me or does a bunny hopper have the advantage in terms of bonus? It seems to pierce defenses alot more... I killed someone by hopping up, taking a lunge in the gut and swinging at their head with medium stance, and it killed them instantly. I was left still with alot of hp...

We need a documentation on the new bonus meters :mad:

Orangina_Rouge
09-02-2002, 07:48 PM
Originally posted by Psionic Jedi
Er just came back from a session on your server (did horrible by the way, medium is no longer uber-leet :( ) and someone named Bizarre turned it into a 30 frag duel... Everyone got pissed and left.



I confirm this .....also there is still problems with server

And tell your buddies of ASC to calm down, i dunno what s the relationship between Bizzarre and Rad but it s not by being @$$ to ppl that the mod will get success ......It s a good mod and need more servers, not ppl ruining the fun out of it

crazyplaya73
09-02-2002, 07:54 PM
It sounds good. I'll be putting it up on my server soon to try it out. Can you have multiple private duels at the same time in the FFA gametype with Promod?
All private FFA duels end with the winner receiving 100 health and 25 shields.

Rad Blackrose
09-02-2002, 07:54 PM
Simple, there is no relationship between Bizarro and I. However, I don't appreciate you calling people n00bs, then also using certain moves over and over again (take the hint: lightning spamming as well as overusing pull/Saber Throw puts you on my ****list automatically).

The reason why the server was changed to a 30 frag duel was because people callvoted the gametype to ffa, which upon sucessful vote makes the fraglimit 20. Someone must have callvoted fraglimit 30. However, it seems they did not callvote map_restart. That was the main problem.

Also, it is still noted that there is no map cycle. I thought that was fixed.

Rad Blackrose
09-02-2002, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by crazyplaya73
It sounds good. I'll be putting it up on my server soon to try it out. Can you have multiple private duels at the same time in the FFA gametype with Promod?


Well, I remember Vex "talking" to me for a bit while I was dueling someone, so I don't think so.

Orangina_Rouge
09-02-2002, 09:06 PM
I don't appreciate you calling people n00bs

Then next time waste Bizzarre head plez or better TAKE IT easy ......using force is not a crime man especially when all others ppl are using it

I don t care for myself since i m grown up enough to not be bothered by such attitude but what bizzarre did is just what this mod don t need .........lamers pissing everyone ( and u can ask everyone there he was a master at it ) when they are in fact sore losers ( thus the name noob .....wich he loved to call other with when u were not online )

there is not much servers( and no others with beta 2 for now ), so if this server ( and worst : mod ) get a bad rep we all lose and Artifex will lose even more since he invested time into this

U answering to bizzarre calls was just approving his acts ( and i asked to other ppl after u left ...they just thinked the same way ) wich hurts this growing community

So next time plez calm down ....
to end this up : u don t know me, i ve never been on OEF or some server u ve been so no need to get mad at me ......my name is just a popular drink with some funny ads where i live : it would be not surprising if someone else would use it

mikus_aurelius
09-03-2002, 01:12 AM
speaking of throw/pull:

is there a way to take this out? While it is counterable, it doesn't really make any sense. It certainly gets the award for cheapest move in JK right now.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by mikus_aurelius
I reallly like way that the attack bonus goes up as you fall on someone. However, it seems almost impossible to connect before you hit the ground. Maybe you should consider having the falling bonus stick around for a quarter of a second after you land. Or maybe I should quit whining and learn to time it better :)

also, is damage tied to the attack meter or just chance to penetrate defenses? I assume its not, but i could swear I had some one hit kills last night walking foreward in red stance.

All in all, love the mod. Thanks a ton artifex.

I wouldn't want to turn saber fighting into a hopping match by emphasizing the jump offensive bonus too much. Sorry. You might try doing the DFA off of a cliff into a group of people though. hehehehe.

One hit kills are possible with red stance, but only with the downwards chop swing. It's just intrinsic to the way the animations work that that swing can hit twice if you keep the saber inside their body long enough. Still, that's pretty difficult to do.

The damage done varies only by where in your swing you connect, the bonuses only affect you ability to hit them. Connecting in the exact middle of the swing will do the most damage.

Glad you like the mod. Spread the word.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 07:42 AM
Originally posted by Rad Blackrose
If we get the chance, I would like to test the new sniper/FS relationship on the server Arti.

Sure, np. I've done quite a bit of testing on it, and it works great!

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 07:46 AM
Originally posted by Psionic Jedi
Er just came back from a session on your server (did horrible by the way, medium is no longer uber-leet :( ) and someone named Bizarre turned it into a 30 frag duel... Everyone got pissed and left.

Also is it just me or does a bunny hopper have the advantage in terms of bonus? It seems to pierce defenses alot more... I killed someone by hopping up, taking a lunge in the gut and swinging at their head with medium stance, and it killed them instantly. I was left still with alot of hp...

We need a documentation on the new bonus meters :mad:

Don't worry, the advantage gained from a normal jump is very slight. Each one of the "ticks" you see in the meter is one point of bonus, which ends up being about 2 or 3 degrees of aiming arc. What was happening is that you were suprising your opponent with a jump, and he was still aiming below you when you hit him. That gave you enough of a combat advantage to break his defenses.

Remember, damage is unaffected by the bonus meters. I'll be putting up a complete guide to the CSC and the Bonus meters today. And fixing what seems to be a page formatting error in IE5.5 and IE6.0

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 07:48 AM
If anyone's being an ass on my server, they're going to get booted if I, or one of my admins sees it. Might get banned if they keep it up too.

Originally posted by Orangina_Rouge


I confirm this .....also there is still problems with server

And tell your buddies of ASC to calm down, i dunno what s the relationship between Bizzarre and Rad but it s not by being @$$ to ppl that the mod will get success ......It s a good mod and need more servers, not ppl ruining the fun out of it

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by mikus_aurelius
speaking of throw/pull:

is there a way to take this out? While it is counterable, it doesn't really make any sense. It certainly gets the award for cheapest move in JK right now.

If someone's constantly Saber Throw/Pulling you, then just duck. You're completely immune to Pull while ducked--you won't even do the counter-pull animation.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by crazyplaya73
It sounds good. I'll be putting it up on my server soon to try it out. Can you have multiple private duels at the same time in the FFA gametype with Promod?


Not at present. You can expect that to be in the next Beta version, though.

Jah Warrior
09-03-2002, 08:35 AM
Ok,

I've only tested on bots so far, 20-30 fights, so bare that in mind with my comments. I noticed some weirdness that may or may not have been intentionally put into the mod, Is it me or are the backstabs spinnable 'sometimes' it seems that they can be turned, is this a bug? I ask because it happens intermittently. The same also applies for blue lunge, turnable a la 1.02 and again this is intermittent.

On a positive note, I do like the defense meters even if I am not quick enough thinking to watch them in-game. And also the startup screen is cool man, very nicely done.

I'll be back once I've got to play some real opponents.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
Ok,

I've only tested on bots so far, 20-30 fights, so bare that in mind with my comments. I noticed some weirdness that may or may not have been intentionally put into the mod, Is it me or are the backstabs spinnable 'sometimes' it seems that they can be turned, is this a bug? I ask because it happens intermittently. The same also applies for blue lunge, turnable a la 1.02 and again this is intermittent.

On a positive note, I do like the defense meters even if I am not quick enough thinking to watch them in-game. And also the startup screen is cool man, very nicely done.

I'll be back once I've got to play some real opponents.

Think you could reproduce that at all? If you get to the point where you think you can, let me know. I had this happen only once, and I think it's related to having your defenses broken while in a special attack. It doesn't adversely affect the game in any way from what I saw, but I'd still like to nail that down.

Glad you liked the new startup screen art. I thought that'd help people realize that they weren't in Kansas anymore. :)

Jah Warrior
09-03-2002, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by ArtifeX


Think you could reproduce that at all? If you get to the point where you think you can, let me know. I had this happen only once, and I think it's related to having your defenses broken while in a special attack. It doesn't adversely affect the game in any way from what I saw, but I'd still like to nail that down.


Well the only way I can explain it is that occasionally it allows you to turn the backsweeps, as you say this could be a result of being attacked during the move which would sound like similar circumstances to when it happens to me. Would recording a demo of this be useful? so you can see how it happens, because it happens probably every 3 or 4 fights while I play. Knowing my luck the moment i start recording it will stop happening. hehe.

let me know...

ps. another question:-
is multi duel part of this beta? The documantation seems to suggest so but it is not abundantly clear.

FatalStrike
09-03-2002, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Orangina_Rouge

Only thing i found maybe too much is Red stance footspeed being faster since u can chain it and it was good in promod 1 for people who knew actually HOW to use it ...but need to test it further



have fun testing Heavy stance I know that I did!

Anyway if I could add my 2 cents-

Heavy in ProMod 1 was a joke. Sure you could chain it, and so what? Medium user had to do nothing more then press down attack and a Heavy user was minced before his second attack was out. A good heavy user v a good medium user in ProMod 1 ended in a dead heavy user 90% of the time.

The way JKII was designed was that
Medium Countered Light Stance
Heavy Countered Medium
Light Countered Heavy

If you play ProMod 2 and Run into a Heavy only user stop being a Medium addiict and switch to Light. When swings horizontal, rush in swinging, and you will parry his sabre and land to good hits.

However if you are a Medium only user then yes Heavy will seem annoying to you, but to bad. Heavy users have to switch stances to win duels and know hopefully so do medium users.

LONG LIVE HEAVY STANCE!! RAVENS FIRST VICTIM.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 09:49 AM
Nope, the multi-ffa-duels is the first thing going into beta 3. I just didn't have the time to put that in before release. But, Beta 3's "killer app" is going to be a new gametype that may make multiple duels passe, anyway.

Originally posted by Jah Warrior


Well the only way I can explain it is that occasionally it allows you to turn the backsweeps, as you say this could be a result of being attacked during the move which would sound like similar circumstances to when it happens to me. Would recording a demo of this be useful? so you can see how it happens, because it happens probably every 3 or 4 fights while I play. Knowing my luck the moment i start recording it will stop happening. hehe.

let me know...

ps. another question:-
is multi duel part of this beta? The documantation seems to suggest so but it is not abundantly clear.

Jah Warrior
09-03-2002, 10:24 AM
ok so now I've had like 30 plus bouts against a real and experienced player. so here's what i think so far...

loads more enjoyable than beta 1 totally!!!

Getting used to the defense and offense meters so thats all good.

Damage is well, how can I put it? DEVESTATING!!! jeez man i wont even tell you what saberdamagescale wer had to use to get matched that lasted more than 20 seconds. Fair enough saber vs guns is ridiculaous as tsandard so I see why you hiked it up but in a duel not quite as enjoyable, but hey we've already discussed that.

Kicking with out force jump:( well I dont think that me and Artifex will agree on this but for me the whole point of no jump is to get rid of that stupid kicking whether it does damage or not, I just loathe kicking. I think you will find NFSO duellists resistant to this mod, and I know that now you get big damage from level three jump I will certainly be missing having jump enabled. and as such it restricts the usabilty of maps, just to get rid of kick damage. :confused: personally the ability to kick and wall run with no force jump is a bit daft. I know that you want to make a standard of sorts for competitive play but that does leave those that do not want to do competitive play out in the cold a little. A little control over wheter or not kick is enabled would really make this mod cool for those that want the benefits of your CSC (is that it) system, but only want to play for 'fun'.

Further to my previous comment about being able to spin backstabs and backsweeps, it also works for the DFA albeit it only happened once in the games I have played so far.

Rants aside this mod is now very enjoyable to use and as such I think this will become our servers mod of choice, especially when you get those multi duels running:D

Good work Artifex keep it up, suffice to say I'm sure I will be back once I have some more opinions to air.

Jubatus
09-03-2002, 11:45 AM
What am I doing wrong?

I log on to Hermes Place as usual, I start DLing a new mod, fair enough, but after that and trying to get into the game I get this:

Error:
Client/Server game
mismatch:
basejk-1/Promod-beta-2

Ok, I go to LF and find this thread about the mod. I then figure maybe I didn't get the right files DLed, so I find Artifex' server as described in his sig, and I have no trouble entering his game, where I find the mod up and running with the meters and all.

So apparently I do have the files needed, so wondering why I can't log on to my favorite server and what this mismatch between me and the server is all about. It says it's running jedimod now...perhaps after having DLed the beta2 mod they interfere with eachother?

Any and all help would be appreciated, thanks.

EDIT: Another thing; so far as I can tell no new mod folder has been created alongside my other mod folders. Bear in mind despite of that I still logged onto and ran the mod fine on Artifex' server.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by Jubatus
What am I doing wrong?

I log on to Hermes Place as usual, I start DLing a new mod, fair enough, but after that and trying to get into the game I get this:

Error:
Client/Server game
mismatch:
basejk-1/Promod-beta-2

Ok, I go to LF and find this thread about the mod. I then figure maybe I didn't get the right files DLed, so I find Artifex' server as described in his sig, and I have no trouble entering his game, where I find the mod up and running with the meters and all.

So apparently I do have the files needed, so wondering why I can't log on to my favorite server and what this mismatch between me and the server is all about. It says it's running jedimod now...perhaps after having DLed the beta2 mod they interfere with eachother?

Any and all help would be appreciated, thanks.

EDIT: Another thing; so far as I can tell no new mod folder has been created alongside my other mod folders. Bear in mind despite of that I still logged onto and ran the mod fine on Artifex' server.

What appears to be happening here is that the server you're going to hasn't been updated correctly, or hasn't updated at all. Can you contact the admin of that server and let them know there's a problem? Let him know he can contact me directly at arsartifex@msn.com if he's having trouble. Helping out server admins is always my top priority.

Toonces
09-03-2002, 01:02 PM
heh, I usually just stick to the modeling forums, but I had to post here and say you've out done yourself again Artifex :D Beta 2 is awesome :)

One minor suggestion. One of the things Jedi Mod did right (cool mod, not realalistic saber fighting) was the saber throw knockdown, you might want to consider putting that in, I just liked the fact that if you throw at somebody and they block it dead center they lost their saber for a few seconds, seemed more realalistic.

Back to Max, then to Promod ;)

Toonces
www.drivingcatstudios.com
Powered by Sith :lightning

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 02:32 PM
Don't worry, knocking sabers out of the air is on my list for Beta 3.

Originally posted by Toonces
heh, I usually just stick to the modeling forums, but I had to post here and say you've out done yourself again Artifex :D Beta 2 is awesome :)

One minor suggestion. One of the things Jedi Mod did right (cool mod, not realalistic saber fighting) was the saber throw knockdown, you might want to consider putting that in, I just liked the fact that if you throw at somebody and they block it dead center they lost their saber for a few seconds, seemed more realalistic.

Back to Max, then to Promod ;)

Toonces
www.drivingcatstudios.com
Powered by Sith :lightning

Jubatus
09-03-2002, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX


What appears to be happening here is that the server you're going to hasn't been updated correctly, or hasn't updated at all. Can you contact the admin of that server and let them know there's a problem? Let him know he can contact me directly at arsartifex@msn.com if he's having trouble. Helping out server admins is always my top priority.

Got it figured out...seems the folder beta2 created was named the same as promod so upon DLing it directly from a server it must have replaced it and maybe that way caused some id problems...anyway made a seperate folder for it and DLed it again from a JK site and put it into said folder.

One thing about beta2: The special move blocking....not sure what else to call it; it's when your yellow finisher (and maybe blue lunge too...not sure) is blocked from the beginning. All you accomplish is making a small jump backwards as if you'd hit some invisible barrier. I hope you know of what I'm speaking. It's really annoying as it disrupts the flow of ones game.

This bug didn't come with beta2, it has been around since 1.03 I think.

Jah Warrior
09-03-2002, 02:59 PM
1:- When you made this mod what gametype did you have in mind?

2:- Could you please perhaps clarify how to change the colours of the CSC crosshair as the readme is not clear on this - ie a bit technical for mere mortals.

3:- Have you been fiddling with the distance required to do a yellow finisher? as outlined in Jubatus' post the jumpy blocky thintg is happening an awful lot, It does seem that a yellow finisher is only really possible when right on top of opponent.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 05:17 PM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
1:- When you made this mod what gametype did you have in mind?


I wasn't specifically thinking of a gametype, but ProMod Beta 1 was pretty saber-centric. Beta 2 has a bunch more factors that effect other weapons (like the sniper fire changes). I'm looking forward to playing some CTF and TDM with the new settings.


2:- Could you please perhaps clarify how to change the colours of the CSC crosshair as the readme is not clear on this - ie a bit technical for mere mortals.


Granted! Check the homepage for the in-progress strategies page. http://www.oculis.org/promod/


3:- Have you been fiddling with the distance required to do a yellow finisher? as outlined in Jubatus' post the jumpy blocky thintg is happening an awful lot, It does seem that a yellow finisher is only really possible when right on top of opponent.

Nope, not a single change to the medium finisher range. Same as 1.04.

ArtifeX
09-03-2002, 05:20 PM
You're right about that coming with 1.03. It's because the special moves are all uninterruptible animations. There's some wacky logic in there handling all that. I'll stick this on my bug list and have it fixed in Beta 3.

Originally posted by Jubatus


Got it figured out...seems the folder beta2 created was named the same as promod so upon DLing it directly from a server it must have replaced it and maybe that way caused some id problems...anyway made a seperate folder for it and DLed it again from a JK site and put it into said folder.

One thing about beta2: The special move blocking....not sure what else to call it; it's when your yellow finisher (and maybe blue lunge too...not sure) is blocked from the beginning. All you accomplish is making a small jump backwards as if you'd hit some invisible barrier. I hope you know of what I'm speaking. It's really annoying as it disrupts the flow of ones game.

This bug didn't come with beta2, it has been around since 1.03 I think.

Jubatus
09-03-2002, 05:36 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX
You're right about that coming with 1.03. It's because the special moves are all uninterruptible animations. There's some wacky logic in there handling all that. I'll stick this on my bug list and have it fixed in Beta 3.



You de man :D Keep up the good work; I'm sure we are legions appreciating it.

Jah Warrior
09-03-2002, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX
You're right about that coming with 1.03. It's because the special moves are all uninterruptible animations. There's some wacky logic in there handling all that. I'll stick this on my bug list and have it fixed in Beta 3.



LOL if you fix that damn bug then I'll have to put you on my Christmas card list man, and I know Jubatus will be eternally grateful too...

Who knows maybe promod will turn JK2 into a finished article instead of the collection of bugs and exploitable moves that it seems to be up till now!!!:D

zerowingzero
09-03-2002, 07:31 PM
Damn you Jah, i joined to see these 10 second flat duels you keep speaking of, but with your custom maps and lack of finding the map elsewhere, i just let it dl in the background (at 2kb/s!) And by the time it was done, everyone was gone :(


We will meet again someday...

Jah Warrior
09-03-2002, 08:35 PM
Originally posted by zerowingzero
Damn you Jah, i joined to see these 10 second flat duels you keep speaking of, but with your custom maps and lack of finding the map elsewhere, i just let it dl in the background (at 2kb/s!) And by the time it was done, everyone was gone :(


We will meet again someday...


LOL, we waited as long as we could dude, but my fave show was on - OZ you may have heard of it.

Anyways the map pack u want is ente's pad pack available at jedioutcastmaps.com, and its well worth getting hold of. You wouldnt have seen any 10 second duels, LOL damage is set at 0.3 and don't think about flaming me for that, myself and the regulars checked it out and that was the only sensible damage rating.

Hope to see you soon bro,

KnightHawk420
09-03-2002, 09:54 PM
First off....


Come play Praxeum Knights Promod Servers


Praxeum Knights Saber Only FFA - Promod Beta 2
206.169.69.25:28070
- Jedi Knight Force
- Saber Only

Praxeum Knights CTF - Promod Beta 2
206.169.69.25:28080
- Jedi Master Force
- Full Weapons


Both servers have the newest versions of the many of the greatest skins and models out there for the game. Custom maps will be coming soon. (need more regulars first :) )


Sadly I haven't had enough time to really test out beta 2 yet. But from what I've seen....

1. Love the new startup screen, for sure not Kansas no mo..
2. 100/25 after duel is good, but no multi duel? I know next release. :(
3. SP Style saber throw blocking, Would very much like to see in next release along with #2. :)
Good to hear it is coming though.
4. Love the offensive/defensive bonus guages. Jesus this mod just keeps getting better. :)



I have to say I really love this freaking mod. I consider it the savior of all things JK2. Really what JK2 should of been from day one. Artifex like you I really hope to get more CTF action in, but as it goes I'm the only one on the planet running a promod CTF server, and I have no traffic. LOL. Sad but true, hoping that will change so I can see if its good for CTF. Anyway us FFA'ers aside from that love it. hehe

zerowingzero
09-03-2002, 10:30 PM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior



LOL, we waited as long as we could dude, but my fave show was on - OZ you may have heard of it.


OZ?

http://members.rogers.com/unreal2k3/pics/genmay/mansecks.jpg


Lol seriously, if you watch seinfeld you have to see the snl parody with jerry in Oz, it's frigin funny
[B]
Anyways the map pack u want is ente's pad pack available at jedioutcastmaps.com, and its well worth getting hold of. You wouldnt have seen any 10 second duels, LOL damage is set at 0.3 and don't think about flaming me for that, myself and the regulars checked it out and that was the only sensible damage rating.

[B]

Me= lazy for dling individual maps, i'd rather let it dl at 2kb/s and go for a walk



And you and your damn "Fast and furious" duels, how are they to fast? How do you play exactly? With both players going for a downward axe chop in red at the same time? You and your crazysettings.

Jah Warrior
09-03-2002, 10:45 PM
Ah man the only way to explain it is that our server settings simply encourage use of all moves many times in a duel, you really have to get stuck in there to get some damage and we love it, honest!!! It brings a greater tactical element into the game i feel, and it also makes comebacks possible. If you get like most of your health taken form a normal hit you are done for in default damage settings, with it lowered a comeback is attainable.

To prove my point, I can safely say that on our server there is not a single player that for instance only uses Red, or Yellow or blue, everyone uses all stances and this is because they know that with lower damage its not worth jst using red or just using finishers, all the moves do their bit of damage and it comes together with some brilliant and I mean BRILLIANT fights.

It may be an acquired taste and sure it may not suit those that like to get a couple of hits and win, what it does do is make it bloody good fun! F'real!!! ask any of the regulars - jais druid lexx, jubatus sosky clem and so on.

He he maybe I should call the server Hermes Place the home of endurance duels!!!:D

zerowingzero
09-03-2002, 11:04 PM
I gotta make you a demo of some 3 min duels i had with others, Damage isnt really insane, in nf it takes three clean yellow hits, two red, or many many blue, and i've used lotsa moves with the current setting, i have style swich bound to mousewheeldown at the disadvanatge of nerver swiching weapons :S

The keys is, if your good enough you can be able to evade most moves at close range, as well as move accordingly to minimize damage.

.30? what is that? 20 damage per clean yellow hit? It has to be a real aquired taste, like watching baseball or grass grow. (No offence, but how long do your duels last? 10 min each?)

Toonces
09-03-2002, 11:10 PM
ArtifeX is already on my Holiday Greeting card list ;)

Toonces
www.drivingcatstudios.com
Powered by Sith :lightning

taboo
09-04-2002, 03:42 AM
I'm a huge fan of this mod ... I'm really hoping that it can virtually replace the default jk2. Having said that, I have just a few suggestions.

Please don't forget to eventually deal with the bots aim/difficulty issue. I for one get a huge kick out of slaying bots when i don't feel like finding an online server. It shouldn't be too hard to give bots of any given difficulty a range of 'hit scores' to determine defence breaking etc (this is coming from someone who's never modded before of course:p ).

This second suggestion is just an idea that I'm putting out there in case anyone finds it worthwhile. I'm a big fan of all weapons, all force ffa. However, it seems a bit unbalanced that a gunner can choose to put no skill points into the saber skills and fill up the rest of the force powers while a saberist has to choose between saber skills and force powers. My suggestion would be to reduce all force powers or just light/dark powers by a factor of 1 of players holding a non saber weapon. Please don't think that i'm a die hard saberist who thinks he should be able to win every battle with a saber ... I'm not. I realize that there is an unsupported mercs vs jedi feature but anything that limits choice/diversity in the game ain't a good think in my books. Anyway, that's the basic idea ... thanks for listening! :)

ArtifeX
09-04-2002, 07:59 AM
Originally posted by taboo
I'm a huge fan of this mod ... I'm really hoping that it can virtually replace the default jk2. Having said that, I have just a few suggestions.

Please don't forget to eventually deal with the bots aim/difficulty issue. I for one get a huge kick out of slaying bots when i don't feel like finding an online server. It shouldn't be too hard to give bots of any given difficulty a range of 'hit scores' to determine defence breaking etc (this is coming from someone who's never modded before of course:p ).


This is on my list for beta 3.


This second suggestion is just an idea that I'm putting out there in case anyone finds it worthwhile. I'm a big fan of all weapons, all force ffa. However, it seems a bit unbalanced that a gunner can choose to put no skill points into the saber skills and fill up the rest of the force powers while a saberist has to choose between saber skills and force powers. My suggestion would be to reduce all force powers or just light/dark powers by a factor of 1 of players holding a non saber weapon. Please don't think that i'm a die hard saberist who thinks he should be able to win every battle with a saber ... I'm not. I realize that there is an unsupported mercs vs jedi feature but anything that limits choice/diversity in the game ain't a good think in my books. Anyway, that's the basic idea ... thanks for listening! :)

This is really similar to something I've been talking to others about. I think a lot of CTF ladder players would send their big brother Vinny after me if I did this. My original plan was to put this in Beta 2, but the mixed reactions I was getting made me decide to push it back to a later version, if I do it at all.

I'm going to see how the current settings work out for a while, maybe get team Valar and some others to jump into my server for some CTF so I can watch how things go, and judge from there.

Jah Warrior
09-04-2002, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by zerowingzero
I gotta make you a demo of some 3 min duels i had with others, Damage isnt really insane, in nf it takes three clean yellow hits, two red, or many many blue, and i've used lotsa moves with the current setting, i have style swich bound to mousewheeldown at the disadvanatge of nerver swiching weapons :S

The keys is, if your good enough you can be able to evade most moves at close range, as well as move accordingly to minimize damage.

.30? what is that? 20 damage per clean yellow hit? It has to be a real aquired taste, like watching baseball or grass grow. (No offence, but how long do your duels last? 10 min each?)

2-3 minutes on average, if its unmatched - ie a really awful player versus a good player it will last 30 seconds, One one occasion I saw a fight last 7 minutes but this was a one off.

ArtifeX
09-04-2002, 08:15 AM
Sounds like you're going to be a big fan of multiple ffa duels when Beta 3 comes out. The shortest ones are 30 seconds? Sheesh!

Originally posted by Jah Warrior


2-3 minutes on average, if its unmatched - ie a really awful player versus a good player it will last 30 seconds, One one occasion I saw a fight last 7 minutes but this was a one off.

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by zerowingzero

.30? what is that? 20 damage per clean yellow hit? It has to be a real aquired taste, like watching baseball or grass grow. (No offence, but how long do your duels last? 10 min each?)

HAHA!!

I am with you ZWZ I like good strong hits, if I get smacked by two yellow hits I have to fight a perfect duel to score a comeback. That the way it should be. If you get outclassed early on, well my friend you deserve no pity, next time be more careful.

The same with finishers, why even try one? If they are weak the damage done to risk taken ratio is retarded. Finishers all leave you open for a long time (except Blue Lunge) and are very hard to land in a duel, they should be quick kills.

But then again I hate Baseball because its slow, so it only makes sense that slow duels would annoy me.

Jah Warrior
09-04-2002, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by FatalStrike


HAHA!!

I am with you ZWZ I like good strong hits, if I get smacked by two yellow hits I have to fight a perfect duel to score a comeback. That the way it should be. If you get outclassed early on, well my friend you deserve no pity, next time be more careful.

The same with finishers, why even try one? If they are weak the damage done to risk taken ratio is retarded. Finishers all leave you open for a long time (except Blue Lunge) and are very hard to land in a duel, they should be quick kills.

But then again I hate Baseball because its slow, so it only makes sense that slow duels would annoy me.

I soooooo want to fight you, on both default settings and sensible settings, PM me if you wanna discover just how much pity i deserve... LOL

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior


I soooooo want to fight you, on both default settings and sensible settings, PM me if you wanna discover just how much pity i deserve... LOL

I sooooooo think you should go on Arti's server since I will be there more and more now that Beta 2 is out. I play Jk++ on Rage's server, ProMod 2 on Artifex's server, and v1.02 when I want to just chill with cool players that have a more established community.

Sooooooooo show up at Arti's server more often and you will see me as ZWZ did last night (heehee punk I got you good right before you left :D)

To Jah (rule) warrior:

SOOOOOOO WEAK

SOOOOOOO WEAK

SOOOOOOO WEAK

SOOOOOOO WEAK

Want me to say it again? I know it drives you nuts.

SOOOOOOO WEAK

there you go!! LOL I pity you for acting big on a forum. LoL

I don't claim to be the best, I just know what I like. I like strong sabers because the idea of landing a heavy hit across the head that only leaves a scratch is laughable.

LoL Breath man Breath!!

Jah Warrior
09-04-2002, 11:41 AM
No comment... the offer stands.:rolleyes:

GonkH8er
09-04-2002, 11:43 AM
methinks everyone needs to be calming down now, aye.....

no more personal attacks... AT ALL

Jah Warrior
09-04-2002, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by GonkH8er
methinks everyone needs to be calming down now, aye.....

no more personal attacks... AT ALL

thanks.

ArtifeX
09-04-2002, 11:48 AM
If you haven't read this yet, read it. The last section of it is something that's been bothering me for a while. I just want to shout this from the highest hilltop...

http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=806991#post806972

Clem
09-04-2002, 01:13 PM
artifex .... i have an ickle problem with promod when playing online .... well ok its a big gurt problem .... i cant play!

ive only tested this in hermes cos i know of no other promods servers i can get into

i always get 999 pings i can chat to people .... but play is impossible

im on 56k if thats important

edit: i tested it in ur server 2 ... same problem

also i forgot to mention the "connection interrupted" warning and picture keep flashing on and off

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 01:20 PM
Originally posted by Jah Warrior
No comment... the offer stands.:rolleyes:

I told you where I play and I told you how to find me. :rolleyes:

You have the problem with me and my views, I don't want you to change your server. So my friend since I did not insult you in any way and you stated you "soooooo want to fight me" and I have no interest in even running into you, then you should have no problem finding me.

Look champ many people like ProMod because of the strong hits, and just because I happen to agree with them doesn't mean you gotta come around tryin to prove something. My last post was meant to show you how retarded you are for getting all bent out of shape because I express the fact I don't like weak sabers.

You freakin erased a good thread last time because of this. Just accept the fact that many people like duels to last a long time because of even opponents, not just because it actually takes a long time to kill someone.

You know where to find me so if you wish come and get it, otherwise I am not taking time out of my schedule for some match that only means something to you. Frankly I don't care if you are the best Jedi on the damn planet, you still won't change the fact that weak sabers SUCK IMHO.

Thanks

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by GonkH8er
methinks everyone needs to be calming down now, aye.....

no more personal attacks... AT ALL

Fine fine fine :mad:

ArtifeX
09-04-2002, 01:27 PM
ProMod beta 2 is now posted at jk2files.com. They give a quick blurb about it and have a new screenshot or two:

http://www.jk2files.com/file.info?ID=5179&sid=#55202

taboo
09-04-2002, 02:06 PM
This is really similar to something I've been talking to others about. I think a lot of CTF ladder players would send their big brother Vinny after me if I did this. My original plan was to put this in Beta 2, but the mixed reactions I was getting made me decide to push it back to a later version, if I do it at all.

I'm glad to heat that you've given a similar scheme some consideration! I'd just like to add a few thoughts seeing as this issue isn't just a pipe dream anymore.

Another solution would be to really reduce the number of skill points needed to buy saber skills. Or, make saber skill level 2 for offence/defence and level 1 for throwing free. In retrospect, this would be a less nerfy way to go about things I suppose.

Now, in regards to the earlier idea of reducing the force skill by 1 of ppl carrying a non saber weapon! It occured to me that youculd just reduce/nerf proactive force use while holding a ns-weapon. ie if i have a blaster in hand, i force push other ppl at level 2 while i use it defensively\automatically at level 3.

CTF,dueling and ffa are all very different games ... if you have to change the settings slightly for each to make them more fun/viable, i'd say do it. Having said this, don't do it unless you absolutely have to. :)

Anyway, these are all just ideas for consideration from a jedi with too much time on his hands. BTW, is there some place where you discuss features in depth that you are currently considering?

Jubatus
09-04-2002, 02:31 PM
Just wanna start out by addressing the clash between FatalStrike and Jah Warrior. I think it primarily happened due to two different points of view on duelling; Fatalstrike's from the FFA view and Jah Warrior's from the Duel view. Disregarding how Fatalstrike obnoxiously overreacted to Jah Warrior's challenge, I agree with them both. In FFA, which I rarely play, I want fast duels for the flow of the game and with consideration to the uninterrupted kill score list. In Duel however, the kill score list waits for you, and having longer fights is much more desirable, at least to me. The level of realism with regards to getting hit by a trapped laser beam emission must come second to the fun of the game, but then again that's relevant to each player.

That said, I just wanna comment on betamod further after having played it some more since my last comment. Beta2 seems to encourage close headon collisions as opposed to the side hits with the tip of the saber some of us strived for before. Does it require skill to make sure your horizontal saber swings hit at the peak of its strength, ie the crosshair dead on your opponent? Yes.

And therein could be a problem, for if you attack running straight on with vertical swinging it will require little to hit with full breakthrough capability, and thus we could be looking at a new newbie headless chicken epidemic :( Hereby not said it's not possible for players to adapt and evolve so much with this new style of play required by this mod that spectacular and diverse battles can come about. But so far much of the grace of some of the old mods have been lost to powermashing.....hope time and play will prove me wrong.

Another thing brought about by this mod is the necessity to practically always look at or above headheight of your opponent in order to max out CSC strength. I have always played looking downwards by 30-45 degrees in order to have a better view of my surroundings and my enemy's position. It simply provides a better overview, and even if I get used to looking straight ahead that overview won't be restored along with it. So, Artifex, if it is possible could you include a movable crosshair, so one could place it 30 degrees above normal to allow maximum strength while keeping ones overview by looking downwards? I'm no comp wiz but I assume that it might be a greater piece of work since by moving the crosshair in relation to your character's default point of attack origin and direction would demand alignment programming and such stuff. But if you could I'd be immensily appreciative :)

So much for now....might get back to yer. Hope you appreciate the feedback :p

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by Jubatus
Disregarding how Fatalstrike obnoxiously overreacted to Jah Warrior's challenge, I agree with them both.

Mind your words champ! You don't know how long Jah has been on me about not likeing his settings, if I even mention strong settings, or agree with someone who like them (as in this case) he gets all pissy and challenges me to a pointless match that cannot regardless of outcome prove either party as being correct.

About the rest of your Post:

Also you went on to say that ProMod encourages players to charge straight ahead, but you forget that changing to a better blocking stance makes a head on attack very easily defended. You will be blocked almost 100% of the time and it will be very easy for your enemy to sidestep and crush you. As players get more and more used to the blocking scheme head on attacks will not be as common.

Players need to learn to sidestep with out removing their crosshairs from their enemy.

ShockV1.89
09-04-2002, 04:37 PM
I dunno, this one feels kinda spammy. I just spent 15 minutes playing another two guys, and this one fella would just spam yellow slashes. No specials or anything, just run at you swinging yellow, and I found it very hard to counter. Yellow did decent damage, and it would break defenses as well? Hmmm....

ShockV1.89

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
I dunno, this one feels kinda spammy. I just spent 15 minutes playing another two guys, and this one fella would just spam yellow slashes. No specials or anything, just run at you swinging yellow, and I found it very hard to counter. Yellow did decent damage, and it would break defenses as well? Hmmm....

ShockV1.89

What stance were you defending with?

Also did you try short jump back vertcal heavy chop forward? I found that since it hits twice and usually kills upon landing you can kill forward attack spammers with ease.

You might also try a medium special since it only works when people charge at you, it may be good in this instance.

Its all about timing.

We must expect people to noob fight at first since non of us are well practiced in it enough to have set counters in mind, but I have found many that work including blue stance defense plus strafe while pivoting to keep him in my sights to be very effective.

Also keep in mind that a red DFA hits going up, so time a DFA to launch just before he reaches you.

Clem
09-04-2002, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by Darth Clem
artifex .... i have an ickle problem with promod when playing online .... well ok its a big gurt problem .... i cant play!

ive only tested this in hermes cos i know of no other promods servers i can get into

i always get 999 pings i can chat to people .... but play is impossible

im on 56k if thats important

edit: i tested it in ur server 2 ... same problem

also i forgot to mention the "connection interrupted" warning and picture keep flashing on and off

bump

ArtifeX
09-04-2002, 05:23 PM
Originally posted by Jubatus
...

That said, I just wanna comment on betamod further after having played it some more since my last comment. Beta2 seems to encourage close headon collisions as opposed to the side hits with the tip of the saber some of us strived for before.

Actually, being in close quarters combat can be more dangerous now than before. When you're that close, the angle between your crosshair and your opponent can change very rapidly. Someone who can consistently maintain their aiming lock when that close is going to be a very dangerous player, indeed. Defense breakers and knockaways are going to happen a lot at that range. It's much safer to keep your opponent at the maximum range of your current saber style, then dart around them trying to open up one of their sides to attack. Someone coming straight at you in a rush is going to get a nasty surprise when you sidestep them and slice them apart.

Does it require skill to make sure your horizontal saber swings hit at the peak of its strength, ie the crosshair dead on your opponent? Yes.

And therein could be a problem, for if you attack running straight on with vertical swinging it will require little to hit with full breakthrough capability, and thus we could be looking at a new newbie headless chicken epidemic :( Hereby not said it's not possible for players to adapt and evolve so much with this new style of play required by this mod that spectacular and diverse battles can come about. But so far much of the grace of some of the old mods have been lost to powermashing.....hope time and play will prove me wrong.

Another thing brought about by this mod is the necessity to practically always look at or above headheight of your opponent in order to max out CSC strength. I have always played looking downwards by 30-45 degrees in order to have a better view of my surroundings and my enemy's position. It simply provides a better overview, and even if I get used to looking straight ahead that overview won't be restored along with it. So, Artifex, if it is possible could you include a movable crosshair, so one could place it 30 degrees above normal to allow maximum strength while keeping ones overview by looking downwards? I'm no comp wiz but I assume that it might be a greater piece of work since by moving the crosshair in relation to your character's default point of attack origin and direction would demand alignment programming and such stuff. But if you could I'd be immensily appreciative :)

So much for now....might get back to yer. Hope you appreciate the feedback :p

I've gotten a request or two for a Y-axis camera adjustment variable. I'll take a look and see how easy that would be to implement.

zerowingzero
09-04-2002, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by FatalStrike


Sooooooooo show up at Arti's server more often and you will see me as ZWZ did last night (heehee punk I got you good right before you left :D)


Lol if i remember correctly, i got you better, if only i had some reference pics....

http://members.rogers.com/zwz/screenshots/biznatch.jpg

My score is so low because i was talking to artifex for a bit about his site, and the fact i can't swich weapons... the key i have weaponswich bound is "q" while i am using the arrow keys for movement :S

And by the way, hate you avatar and your arguing like it's JBF here...

Jubatus
09-04-2002, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by FatalStrike
Also you went on to say that ProMod encourages players to charge straight ahead, but you forget that changing to a better blocking stance makes a head on attack very easily defended. You will be blocked almost 100% of the time and it will be very easy for your enemy to sidestep and crush you. As players get more and more used to the blocking scheme head on attacks will not be as common.

Players need to learn to sidestep with out removing their crosshairs from their enemy.

Originally posted by ArtifeX
Actually, being in close quarters combat can be more dangerous now than before. When you're that close, the angle between your crosshair and your opponent can change very rapidly. Someone who can consistently maintain their aiming lock when that close is going to be a very dangerous player, indeed. Defense breakers and knockaways are going to happen a lot at that range. It's much safer to keep your opponent at the maximum range of your current saber style, then dart around them trying to open up one of their sides to attack. Someone coming straight at you in a rush is going to get a nasty surprise when you sidestep them and slice them apart.

Countering the headon bashing was not the issue of my post; I will have little trouble doing that. It's this form of 'style' people might adapt that bothers me, for it will ruin a lot of the grace as I mentioned in said post. I'm less interested in winning as I am in having a great fight. That was the point I wanted across.

zerowingzero
09-04-2002, 07:52 PM
Well after geting owned in Jah's server,i can honestly say that dueling and ffa's are very different.

Damnit i thought my ffa skills would transfer over :(

Anyway, i still say that red is ok in with the regular damage (it's a risky stance to use aginsed a good player but the damage is always worth it) and i think that the damage setting on your server takes away from it, i'll have to do more testing before i make any real oppinions though, i am not really used to the whole promod NF scene so what applys to FFA's or FF may not apply the same way there.

Don't think it's over though, i'll get better somehow...

Jah Warrior
09-04-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by zerowingzero
Well after geting owned in Jah's server,i can honestly say that dueling and ffa's are very different.

Yeah thats my point duelling and ffa ARE totally different, especially when you throw guns, saber throw and force into the mix. Seriously with damage set at 1 those fights would not have lasted more than a few seconds and you saw it with your own eyes dude.

Perhaps a different promod for duelling would work? I dunno, to be honest I'm sick of the debate, I know what me and our regulars like - nuff said...

For the record you so nearly had me on the last fight... 6hp i think or there abouts.:D I really did think i was doomed.

Hehe, when i was on Artifex's server I didnt have a single force power, except jump, all my keys are assigned to server commands etc. But hey i still got some kills off the drain whores and the run away and throw the saber fanatics... Love it,

Age and treachery always overcomes youth and skill!!!

cheers for the rumbles Zero

zerowingzero
09-04-2002, 08:38 PM
After playing some duels with the Promod ffa, they didnt seem as short as they thought they would, because with the full damage, players seem to take less risks than with your server, i found my matches to be a little faster than yours but good none the less.

Anyway maybe it's just your playstyle,i am not usually so outclassed in duels, probably because i've been playing with the same lot i developed a diff playstyle than the play style that all you HP server do, either way i'll try and test out red more in NF enviroments, as far i see Red is still ok with regular damage.


Anyway, good fights, and maybe i can change your mind about FFA's, the lightning-drain-backbedal throw you are thinking of isnt really what happins in all servers

Jah Warrior
09-04-2002, 08:59 PM
Originally posted by zerowingzero
Anyway, good fights, and maybe i can change your mind about FFA's, the lightning-drain-backbedal throw you are thinking of isnt really what happins in all servers

I hope so, its just that its a pain in the arse to change keyconfigs, perhaps i'll make a cfg file for that when i get the time.

zerowingzero
09-04-2002, 09:02 PM
I'll lend you mine, it's pretty reasonable, Whatever you do don't use artifex's, he has some crazy **** going on there, inverted mouse, weird keys, and if you read the bind letters backwards it says "IWORSHIPSATAN"


Lol i'll make you a good demo, FFA's kick

KnightHawk420
09-04-2002, 09:42 PM
FFA'ers tend to be more agressive than duelists. On my servers we duel quite a bit. We also do big bad brawls too. True enough none of us are too worried about dying and not playing the game till we're up again, thus we have no need to be quite as safe.

I think you'll find ffa duelers at least the ones fostered on my server to be a par above the rest. Most of them have focused mainly on they're saber skills, but being a force filled environment the usual grip whores don't get in they're way much. :)

I'm sure you regular duelers would find my ffa duelers to be a handfull.


As far as force powers go in general. After having played 2 weeks with full force powers enabled. I have yet to see anyone really successfully whore anything. Lightning - drain - backpedal... I've seen a few try, but they usually don't get much traction with us. As soon as lightning gets busted out they become everyones center of attention. And have they're asses handed to them accordingly. The biggest whore I've seen is pull/kick, and even that isn't usefull enough to matter. Or grip/blue lunge. This can be very deadly, but its far from unblockable or unavoidable. Experienced players hand me my ass every try of that, non experienced players get they're asses handed to them. :)

Also no longer in FFA does fighting a darksider = absorb. Play NS_STREETS, you know the push/pull/grip whore map. hehe.... With promod getting pushed/pulled/or gripped off. Is no easy whore to do. It finally takes skill to rack up so many skills with that tactic. Push/pull can be so easy to block as long as your paying attention to who's doing the pushing.

The known whores I did have, do nothing but bitch moan and complain about how much this mod sucks. :)


What force power FFA is like now I can only describe as a bitchin experience. I've had some damn good almost force only battles before, and I have to say it really feels good now. Somehow the force powers always seemed to be buggy, or overtly advantagous. Such as being able to push/pull others with impunity. Not anymore is that the case. Now if you can do it, it's because made a good solid well aimed, well timed force attack. You can now feel safe going into a server full of darksiders with nothing but push/pull and feel relatively safe from them. Sure there are the lightning/drain whores, but just remember if you got the health, then you got plenty of time to just take the lightning and run after them and chop they're vunerable lightning whoring butts to oblivion. :)

They will either have to stop using lightning or die... it's that simple anymore. No absorb required. :)

Now in my duels its not uncommon to throw a few force attacks at each other have each player counter and dodge accordingly and then follow up with saber strikes. This is the kind of fighting I see all the time now with promod. No more force only people running around. Cuz it's simple they learned hte saber is one badass weapon in ProMod.

Reminds me of another whore who would come on my server before equip very little other than darkside powers and own quite a few... As of lastnight watching him play he got owned outright. In a server full of saber loving players, and being the only force only guy is not a good thing. :)


Hoorah for promod. "It's what the game should of been".

FatalStrike
09-05-2002, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by zerowingzero


Lol if i remember correctly, i got you better, if only i had some reference pics....

http://members.rogers.com/zwz/screenshots/biznatch.jpg

Please Note that you were there longer and since this was my FIRST match of the night I spent some time adjusting my force powers. Also please note that out of my 6 kills YOU were 3 of them. I think you may have killed me once. But whatever keep thinking you own.

Also I was only reffering to our last little meeting of the night in which we had a sort of duel and you lost. It was a joke, since I thought you were cool with it. Didn't know you kept an index of meaningless screenshots or that you'd get all bent out of shape.

My bad!!



Originally posted by zerowingzero

And by the way, hate you avatar and your arguing like it's JBF here...

Sorry Angel boy, didn't mean to annoy you with the avatar my 12 year old cousin sent me. But I put my familly before losers that take cheap shots, like remarks about avatars, such as yourself.

Can't wait to see you on-line champ. :D

ArtifeX
09-05-2002, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by KnightHawk420
...
As far as force powers go in general. After having played 2 weeks with full force powers enabled. I have yet to see anyone really successfully whore anything. Lightning - drain - backpedal... I've seen a few try, but they usually don't get much traction with us...

Hoorah for promod. "It's what the game should of been".

Good comments. Good to see that my adjustments are turning out to be balanced in the long term. I really think that the range decrease in Lightning and Drain, and the increased saber damage have gone for miles to even out the gameplay.

Stay tuned. Next step is to equalize sabers vs. guns...and from what I've got on paper, it's gonna rock!

FatalStrike
09-05-2002, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX



Stay tuned. Next step is to equalize sabers vs. guns...and from what I've got on paper, it's gonna rock!

:devscare:

Do you realize what you are getting yourself into? Gunners will go rabid if you find a way to make sabers equal. Heck, they are already mad at you for upping saber throw damage against gunners.

You are a marked man Artifex, no telling what could happen to you.

:fire3: :slsaber:

Then again I already gave you my thoughts on how to help balance things out. Give'em Hell Artifex!!:devsmoke:

crazyplaya73
09-05-2002, 01:20 PM
I am going to put up a Promod duel server very soon to go along with my Jediplus FFA server. One question - what am I supposed to set for the blocking variables? (you know ghoul2 and sabertraces) I probably doesn't matter. I'm guessing that Promod doesn't pay attention to that but I want to make sure. Thanks.

ArtifeX
09-05-2002, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by crazyplaya73
I am going to put up a Promod duel server very soon to go along with my Jediplus FFA server. One question - what am I supposed to set for the blocking variables? (you know ghoul2 and sabertraces) I probably doesn't matter. I'm guessing that Promod doesn't pay attention to that but I want to make sure. Thanks.

Glad to hear it. All you need to do is leave the server set to its 1.04 defaults. ghoul2 off and sabertrace 0 (i think). None of the extra blocking or attacking stuff that ProMod does is affected too much by either of these though. Most of the ProMod collision code is "instead of" rather than "in addition to" ghoul2 and sabertrace.

ArtifeX
09-05-2002, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by FatalStrike
Do you realize what you are getting yourself into? Gunners will go rabid if you find a way to make sabers equal. Heck, they are already mad at you for upping saber throw damage against gunners.

You are a marked man Artifex, no telling what could happen to you.

Then again I already gave you my thoughts on how to help balance things out. Give'em Hell Artifex!!

Gunners take note:

I hereby solemnly swear that I will not in any way nerf, cripple or otherwise make sh1tty any gun, saber style/swing, or Force Power. Yet, I will bring Guns vs. Sabers into balance.

As to how I'm going to do that...I'll keep that to myself for a bit.

taboo
09-05-2002, 02:36 PM
Aww, come on! Let us in on the secret! I'm getting tired of going through your trash looking for scribbles/notes on promod! :p

Honestly though, you might want to let your ideas marinate in the forums for a bit. There may be some collective wisdom around here to be taken advantage of. Or maybe we're all whiny instant gratification junkies who just wanna know NOW!!! :)

Keep it up, eh?

TheLiberator34
09-05-2002, 04:29 PM
I haven't gotten a chance to download the Promod yet, but one thing i was wondering about is if you modyfied strong style. I think it should have less of a windup, but should have a chance of overswing if you miss your target.

ArtifeX
09-05-2002, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by TheLiberator34
I haven't gotten a chance to download the Promod yet, but one thing i was wondering about is if you modyfied strong style. I think it should have less of a windup, but should have a chance of overswing if you miss your target.

The major change i made to Strong was that I upped the footspeed during a swing. I think you'll find that change alone makes the Strong stance much more effective in combat. Most people have commented that it is a little riskier to use, but has a satisfying result for taking the risk.

ArtifeX
09-05-2002, 04:43 PM
Originally posted by taboo
Aww, come on! Let us in on the secret! I'm getting tired of going through your trash looking for scribbles/notes on promod! :p

Honestly though, you might want to let your ideas marinate in the forums for a bit. There may be some collective wisdom around here to be taken advantage of. Or maybe we're all whiny instant gratification junkies who just wanna know NOW!!! :)

Keep it up, eh?

I generally like to keep conceptual stuff under my hat until i've tested the feasibility in the code. Once I've got the lion's share of it working, I'll let you guys know about it.

Really though, if this works out, none of you will be disappointed I think.

zerowingzero
09-05-2002, 04:44 PM
Lol i just like posting pics, anyway i'd say i'm pretty good in ffa's, not to sound ****y but i usually do get high scores without guns with promodv2


Anyway i'll just have to focus on you next time i see you in arti's server ;)


Anyway there is something i must bring up with absorb, since promod beta 1 i've never used it, it is pretty useless to my with the increased useage and the delay before it activates, it's only usefull if someone just holds down lightning or if that's the only force power your gonna use. Any other time it seems more economical to just run from lightning-ers that don't hold it down, as by the time i activate absorb they've stoped and i've got less force with no benifit

ShockV1.89
09-05-2002, 05:25 PM
Do you realize what you are getting yourself into? Gunners will go rabid if you find a way to make sabers equal. Heck, they are already mad at you for upping saber throw damage against gunners.

Oh, I dunno. Sabre throw hasnt bothered me much in promod. I did rather well with my guns against FatalStrike and PsionicJedi. ;)

ShockV1.89

Psionic Jedi
09-05-2002, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89


Oh, I dunno. Sabre throw hasnt bothered me much in promod. I did rather well with my guns against FatalStrike and PsionicJedi. ;)

ShockV1.89

Arrr that you did Shock, even owned me with the saber in a duel :O

At least I have two duel kills on FatalStrike under me belt :D

KnightHawk420
09-05-2002, 07:27 PM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
I dunno, this one feels kinda spammy. I just spent 15 minutes playing another two guys, and this one fella would just spam yellow slashes. No specials or anything, just run at you swinging yellow, and I found it very hard to counter. Yellow did decent damage, and it would break defenses as well? Hmmm....

ShockV1.89

I had to deal with this kind of fighting lastnight myself. It does seem somehow Medium is more effective at this than it should be... but...

Blue stance is good against it. Blue lunge works like a charm.

Block, parry, strike with blue...

If you can get some distance from him, switch to red and at least make his incoming strikes dangerous as hell.

Mostly though blue stance worked best against this kind of player. Keep calm, block the hits and counter. It's as simple as that.. Sorta..

ArtifeX
09-06-2002, 08:53 AM
Generally the way things go is that Blue beats Yellow (used in the proper reactive rather than proactive manner), Yellow beats Red, and Red beats Blue (it busts Blue's defenses pretty well).

So KnightHawk's right, Blue does counter Yellow. You just wait for their attack, then block it, and use the block to chain a counterattack while the Yellow user is still recovering.

There's a great Blue combo that I've pointed out before that's difficult to do, but it's the fastest combo in the game, and can kill a player outright if you do it correctly. Goes like this:

attack(hold)+left, forward+right, left, forward+right, left,...ad infinitum.

One cycle of this combo will hit six times is just over 1 second. With the new damages, you'll be doing 180 points if you land all six. Hell, if you land just half of them you'll do the equivalent of a Strong swing at 90 points. If somebody sees me in a server and wants a demonstration of this, i can demonstrate.

This will chew up an unwary Yellow user.

Also, Yellow is seeming to be the best style for most people, but remember, most of the servers out there are FFA, so that's where most people's experience lies. If you do more private duels, I think you'll find that the advantages of Blue over Yellow start to become more apparent. I'm actually getting quite good at using Blue in duels, myself. Just as ZeroWingZero about the priv. duel we had on the death star map last night. :P

FatalStrike
09-06-2002, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by ShockV1.89
Oh, I dunno. Sabre throw hasnt bothered me much in promod. I did rather well with my guns against FatalStrike and PsionicJedi.

ShockV1.89



:devscare:
Yeah yeah yeah I got my @ss handed to me by Shock, and so what!! :D

I did put in some Promod training hours last night and have gotten better. So I look forward to running into all of you on-line. I need the practice so I will be at arti's server more often.

By the way Arti the new mind trick works wonders on gunners! Great job!!




Originally posted by Psionic Jedi


Arrr that you did Shock, even owned me with the saber in a duel :O

At least I have two duel kills on FatalStrike under me belt :D

:D Me and you were pretty even, I got you good a few times and you got me back.

zerowingzero
09-06-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX

ZeroWingZero about the priv. duel we had on the death star map last night. :P

What the?! Yellow lost to blue without a lunge! this isnt right! ahh!


Blue is fine if your patient, or not playing FFA, yellow will do more damage in less time and most likely steal your kills if you arent fast enough. I gotta learn to use blue :(

ArtifeX
09-06-2002, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by zerowingzero


What the?! Yellow lost to blue without a lunge! this isnt right! ahh!

Blue is fine if your patient, or not playing FFA, yellow will do more damage in less time and most likely steal your kills if you arent fast enough. I gotta learn to use blue :(

Exactly why more people are going for Yellow these days: they think that Medium's uses in FFA transfer to a closed duel. Closed duels are MUCH different than full FFA now.

FatalStrike
09-06-2002, 04:55 PM
I am learning blue a little bit, I kept losing duels to this one guy and finally stuck with blue for most of the duels and end up winning the next 4. It's not that blue does a lot of damage but it throws them off their game plan. They can't fight the way they like to fight and you end up opening them up to a later in the duel red or yellow hit.

That what makes Promod cool, all the stances seem to be very useful.

The footspeed change finally made red useful again but despite all the cry's of "oh no red is going to be uber again" it isn't. Well done Artifex!!

FatalStrike
09-06-2002, 04:59 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX


Exactly why more people are going for Yellow these days: they think that Medium's uses in FFA transfer to a closed duel. Closed duels are MUCH different than full FFA now.

Just like they were in 1.02.

In 1.02 FFA was a DFA orgy. Everyone DFA'd all day and those of us who were better at it won.

But 1.02 duels have medium stance masters crushing heavy users.

Duels are about small calculated attacks and a very mindful defensive posture. You can't be reckless in a duel in 1.02 or Promod. The hit points are high and one false step and its bye bye Jedi. I love it!!

thehomicidalegg
09-07-2002, 04:03 AM
lol 1.04 is still a DFA orgy...

zerowingzero
09-07-2002, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by thehomicidalegg
lol 1.04 is still a DFA orgy...


*looks at title that reads "Promod beta 2 released*

*wonders why comment about crappy 1.04 is in thread*

If you are refering to promod, i think you must have been playing with complete novices to the game, with promod, it isnt worth it to spam specials, especially in ffa's because of the increased damage. I also found that if i ever do connect with an un-blocked dfa, unless i got them from behind or they just stood still, i never got a kill.
I need to test this more.

zerowingzero
09-07-2002, 05:10 PM
I got a few idea's here from our tffa game, tell me what you think

1.Allow duels in Tffa for opposing teams:

Would be nice but i wouldent want tffa matches turning into FFA's with everyone's saber off

2. Allow some benifit for the greater levles of the team heal/energize:

Right now the only difference that i see in the levels is range, a benifit for lv three would be nice, as well as a lowering of the lv1 benifits.

3.Increace velocity of pushed back weapons:

Right now pushings is more of a novelty it most cases, as you can always dodge rather than pushing and ALL guns have a faster ROF than the push cool down. Don't know how easy this would be to implement, not really neccesary as i don't have much problems with gunners.

4. Bind a damn key with your site in it!

Anytime someone asks what promod does your frozen for like 6 min explaining it to them! or just simplfy it as "aim=good"

ArtifeX
09-07-2002, 08:13 PM
Originally posted by zerowingzero
I got a few idea's here from our tffa game, tell me what you think

1.Allow duels in Tffa for opposing teams:

Would be nice but i wouldent want tffa matches turning into FFA's with everyone's saber off

2. Allow some benifit for the greater levles of the team heal/energize:

Right now the only difference that i see in the levels is range, a benifit for lv three would be nice, as well as a lowering of the lv1 benifits.

3.Increace velocity of pushed back weapons:

Right now pushings is more of a novelty it most cases, as you can always dodge rather than pushing and ALL guns have a faster ROF than the push cool down. Don't know how easy this would be to implement, not really neccesary as i don't have much problems with gunners.

4. Bind a damn key with your site in it!

Anytime someone asks what promod does your frozen for like 6 min explaining it to them! or just simplfy it as "aim=good"

I'll keep all this in mind, though with the Beta 3 plans i have, most of it would be unnecessary, i think.

#4: ROFL. It's a complicated system, so I don't mind explaining it. Maybe I should bind a bunch of 1 line descriptions and hit each of them in turn, hmm? hehehehe.

zerowingzero
09-07-2002, 08:23 PM
*game starts FFA_Bespin*

*ZWZ has connected*

*ZWZ was sabered by Lazarous*

*ArtifeX *asc* was sabered by ZWZ*

*noob1 connected*

*noob1 has connected*

*noob1 was sabered by Atrifex *asc**

*noob1 was sabered by Lazarous*

*noob1 was sabered by ZWZ*

Noob1: What does this mod do?!??

Artifex *asc*: it's a complete re-work of the saber system

Artifex *asc*: It eleminates random encounters in favor of skill

Noob1: O

Artifex *asc*: (Every single thing in his site + demos)

*25min later*

Noob1:k

Artifex *Asc*: since when were we playing FFA_Yavin??

thehomicidalegg
09-08-2002, 01:12 AM
i was referring to 1.04, not promod, some1 said 1.02 was a dfa orgy im just commenting that 1.04 still is one... Thus the reason why we should ALL be playing promod

lf412
09-08-2002, 01:13 PM
Hehe, great job with the beta 2. Although it seems to be lacking servers atm. Anyway, 129.2.149.62:28070 is also a CTF server, just in case the Praxeum one gets full :) . Although I might change it depending on the player base.

Oh yeah, can anyone please tell me how to get my server on qtracker. That would be much appreciated!

Sam
09-08-2002, 01:20 PM
If this mod had the wall kick while your not on the ground thing and cliff hanging ability this would be the next patch

ArtifeX
09-08-2002, 01:31 PM
Actually, if you email the author of qtracker (his email at www.qtracker.com), then he'll probably respond. I've traded emails with him a couple of times now and he's always been very prompt in his responses.

Originally posted by lf412
Hehe, great job with the beta 2. Although it seems to be lacking servers atm. Anyway, 129.2.149.62:28070 is also a CTF server, just in case the Praxeum one gets full :) . Although I might change it depending on the player base.

Oh yeah, can anyone please tell me how to get my server on qtracker. That would be much appreciated!

taboo
09-10-2002, 06:13 AM
I've been playing promod beta 2 a fair amount against bots and I'm not so sure that their bot/exact aim will be a problem. In fact, the bots are by nature so stupid that perhaps their aim is a needed enhancement. Thought I'd mention this as I've been one of the ppl mentioning the bot issue in the past. As always, just my opinion. Looking forward to numero tres!

ArtifeX
09-10-2002, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by taboo
I've been playing promod beta 2 a fair amount against bots and I'm not so sure that their bot/exact aim will be a problem. In fact, the bots are by nature so stupid that perhaps their aim is a needed enhancement. Thought I'd mention this as I've been one of the ppl mentioning the bot issue in the past. As always, just my opinion. Looking forward to numero tres!

I'm planning on adding a bit of scalability to the bot aim at some point. That'll allow people to play against easy bots and not have to compete with such high accuracy. Not sure if it's going to be in beta 3, but it'll happen eventually.

thehomicidalegg
09-11-2002, 03:35 AM
hmm bots a predictable, thats their main fault, so i dont really think their aims matters, though it is good to see they are somewhat better now than before

taboo
09-17-2002, 03:46 AM
How now brown cow? Really looking forward to beta 3, do you have a rough idea about when it'll be finished? I've been pimping. (http://forums.raven-games.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=21&t=000105) :)

ArtifeX
09-17-2002, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by taboo
How now brown cow? Really looking forward to beta 3, do you have a rough idea about when it'll be finished? I've been pimping. (http://forums.raven-games.com/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=21&t=000105) :)

I've been putting my design doc together for a couple of weeks now, and poring over the code to see what I can accomplish. My long term goal with the mod is pretty lofty, so most of my effort at this point is chopping up my final vision into smaller releases.

Beta 3 is under way. I'll give you all more info as I get closer to release.