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KevinCoyle
09-04-2002, 02:33 AM
I'm working on a model of Ben Kenobi from Episode 4. Here is a very early screenshot of his head. even though the head mesh isn't finished, I've already skinned the face. I tend to build my face mesh and skin at the same time so it comes out looking more like the person I'm trying to build. This is still in it's very early stages, I plan to make the beard and hair stick out a bit from the mesh, right now it just painted right on his face and head.

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/oldbenearlyhead.jpg

Twisted Vertex
09-04-2002, 02:59 AM
OK.......interesting production pipeline you have there. I would consider that highly unproductive. It would seem to be more benifishal if you at least completed the facial mesh. Then applied you texture. If I were you, you might wanna consider a new pipline, you might be pleased..........Anyways. FIX the beard please..Make it more random, we are talking about an old man here, He needs a little bit of randominess in the beard, Its too neat and organized.

The actually skin tone is that of 20 year old. Rich and colorful...By the way, Take back your light source when rendering. Also to improve your mesh.......Take off any specualr highlights off the texture....if your using max there is a dial in the texture editor.

I like the eyes alot.....they appear to be the right size, However that beek of a nose is throwing everything off....Other than that......it appears you have the proper protions in the facial area _BESIDE the nose_

great work keep it up.

nomad
09-04-2002, 03:04 AM
Hey, best of luck, KevinCoyle!
Ep4 Obi-Wan is hands down my most desired character for this game and probably the most overlooked character in this community.
I shall keep my eye on your progress for sure.
It's an early start still, but you have captured his look slightly :)
His nose, no doubt looks a little too wide, but his eyes, nose and mouth seem to be lined up well, in relation to eachother.

-nomad

May the force be with you

KevinCoyle
09-04-2002, 03:23 AM
OK.......interesting production pipeline you have there. I would consider that highly unproductive. It would seem to be more benifishal if you at least completed the facial mesh. Then applied you texture. If I were you, you might wanna consider a new pipline, you might be pleased..........Anyways. FIX the beard please..Make it more random, we are talking about an old man here, He needs a little bit of randominess in the beard, Its too neat and organized.

I guess I should have phrased that differently. I don't mean That I start making the skin when the head is still a box, I do make the mesh first but I don't wait until I think it's perfect before adding the face skin, once the mesh get's to a certain point, I do both together to really get it the way I want it. It doesn't take to much more time to select the face polygons and click the "apply texture" buttons.

Good idea about the beard, I'll work on that soon, and I do plan to fix the skin tone, like you said, it makes him look to young, plus it contrasts to much with his hair and beard. And I'll definatly fix the nose.

K.O
09-04-2002, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by nomad
Ep4 Obi-Wan is hands down my most desired character for this game and probably the most overlooked character in this community.

Well, I have 1 skin of him already out. There are probably more around, just have to look. :o

Good job so far, but anything I have to add it looks like you said you'll already fix. I'm looking forward to your next update! Nothing more fun than old guys running around with sabers. :D

Edit: Is he supposed to have a line running down the middle of his face like that?

KevinCoyle
09-04-2002, 05:07 AM
Here's a slight update to the head. I haven't gotten to changing the beard texture yet, but I changed the skin tone somewhat, added some various detail and thinned out the nose.

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/oldbenearlyhead2.jpg

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-04-2002, 05:23 AM
Good update. A few comments though. Shave the point from the end of the nose. And his face looks a bit odd. Like it doesn't fit on the model right. Try some altering of the facial model. So it better fits the skin.

jaybiggspr
09-04-2002, 07:11 AM
*belches up chunks

Madjai
09-04-2002, 08:01 AM
you really need to add detail to the face, it looks like you pasted the skin over a flat surface with a bump for a nose.

Eldritch
09-04-2002, 12:24 PM
I think considering you just started, you've captured his likeness pretty well. I do agree that more detail needs to be added to the face, and the beard looks a little too thick, but i'm sure you'll get to that as you go along. Keep it up, it's a good start.

KevinCoyle
09-04-2002, 09:30 PM
Here's another update

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/oldobiwanhead3.jpg

hawk_of_war
09-04-2002, 09:37 PM
WoW! That is so much better than the other pictures. I hope you can keep the quality up throughout the model.


[edit]
Though I do beleive that the nose is just a tad bit big.

funny_dude0
09-04-2002, 11:06 PM
I don't know if anyone's mentioned this or noticed this yet (although it's hard NOT to notice), but his nose is a bit big.

Sounds Risky
09-04-2002, 11:16 PM
Have the facial hair stick out. And don't forget real eyes.

fat_101
09-05-2002, 07:39 AM
im impressed, but i have to agree there needs to be real eyes and his beard needs to be attached (if thats the right word?) but on the whole it looks very good.

FATTEH

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-05-2002, 07:56 AM
For a first attempt I'd have to say good job man. The new update is looking great. Good job! :)

KevinCoyle
09-05-2002, 08:26 AM
Well, I gave him real eyes instead of skinned ones. I think they need to be tweeked still, he seems to look less like ben then he did before, also the eyelids need work. I also worked on his nose a little more and made it a bit smaller, and pulled out his mustache and beard a little

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/oldobiwanhead4.jpg

fat_101
09-05-2002, 08:35 AM
By comparison i think when u have completed the eyelids then it should look like ben again, its the darkness around his eyes that is the reason for the nonlikeness ( <- is that a real word ???)

FATTEH

Toonces
09-05-2002, 08:51 AM
I must say Kevin, you have a fabilous resemblence thus far, what's the poly count on that head right now?

I'm starting to really understand why some modelers put a skin on their models very early into the game, it really helps with proportions. I'm going to begin to try and use this technique on my next model :)

Toonces
www.drivingcatstudios.com
Powered by Sith :lightning

Eldritch
09-05-2002, 09:15 AM
I think the latest update looks less like him then the one before. Whatever you did with the eyes changed his look too much. The skin tone is better now though.

KevinCoyle
09-05-2002, 03:12 PM
I'll definatly fix the eyes, so don't worry about that. And for Toonces, the head has 850 polys in it right now. I shouldn't need much more, I mostly just need to tweek what I've got so far to make it look right

funny_dude0
09-05-2002, 06:09 PM
Well now I think he kind of looks like Gandalf from Lord of the Rings. Maybe shrink his nose a bit?

hawk_of_war
09-05-2002, 07:56 PM
Everyone one's been saying that ever since I did.

bleek
09-05-2002, 10:31 PM
I think it looks good...and a lot like him...least better than the one in the game right now. Looks much much much improved since the first screenies of him you made.

KevinCoyle
09-05-2002, 11:00 PM
Here's another update. I fixed the eyelids and made several adjustments here and there trying to make it look as close to obi-wan as possible. There's two screenshots here. The first one is an update like all the others, the second one is a rendering from the front next to one of the pictures I'm using for reference.

Update5 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/oldobiwanhead5.jpg)
UpdatewithRefPic (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/oldobiwanhead5ref.jpg)

keo718
09-05-2002, 11:05 PM
Very nice. My observation, the nose should be a tad shorter, and the ears should come out more. His mustache is also a tad less thick.

nomad
09-06-2002, 05:26 AM
Really nice looking resemblence!
That reference picture is a little strange. Did you doctor that one up yourself to get a straight on image of his face? It's clearly a mirrored image (one half of his face) and some of the preportions seem a little off. Your model looks better than that ref pic. :)
One little thing, I see a problem with the pupils. They should lie centered within the iris. I see that the reference pic has these weird ecliptical pupils and that you have the same on your model. I've noticed this in one pic that I have of him as well (I think it's the same one you got most of that ref pic from) but I think it's just a weird shadow or the angle, because no one should have pupils like that. Just trying to help ;)
Keep in mind though, that the eyes look fantastic besides this point, and I hope that you can fix the problem without losing that certain something that you have captured thus far.

K.O. -
I'm aware of the skins out there, but I do not think a skin with prequel-like jedi garments qualifies as being a good representation of such a legendary character. I mean ZERO offense. I've seen three skins of him, and all have been good jobs with what there was to work with, but until there is an Old Ben with full length robes, in my obsessive, Star Wars-Puristic Opinion, he has been "overlooked" And please do not " :o " at me. It seems as though you were making an attempt to appear as though you were talking down to me. That is not appreciated.
Nonetheless, I did not mean to sound like I was complaining with my original comments. I was merely stating my happiness with the fact that somebody had begun a WIP of this character.

Keep up the good work KevinCoyle.

-nomad

MTFBWY

fat_101
09-06-2002, 07:34 AM
I have to say ur reference pic Mr obi-wan looks a little .....roughed up but it looks like u have compensated 4 that. on the whole its looking more like him again, the only thing i would change is making his beard a little more rough around the edges and move his ears out a little more to stick out a bit.

FATTEH

overall top job keep it up :)

Toonces
09-06-2002, 04:56 PM
I'd be intrested to see a flat shader on that head. You've got more than enough faces to pull a very accurate head off I bet, it's looking good :D A side shot would be nice too, the front of the head looks a little pointy

I agree with you nomad, the model itself looks much better than that refrence pic, and to back you up nomad, a custom model is always prefrable to a reskin of an existing model, there is just so much more that you can do

Toonces
www.drivingcatstudios.com
Powered by Sith :lightning

12thMonkey
09-06-2002, 05:13 PM
Reference pic.

Old Ben (http://mysite.freeserve.com/12thMonkey/BenSTFU.jpg)

funny_dude0
09-06-2002, 05:52 PM
His eyes look a little too crossed.

KevinCoyle
09-07-2002, 12:40 AM
Another Update. I'm think I'm just about ready to start skinning the rest of the head and to finalize the face texture (Adding randomness to the beard, and making his hair wilder and combed forward and to the like it is in most of my reference pictures, instead of back like I have it now. Any suggestions before I continue?

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/oldobiwanhead6.jpg

icepool
09-07-2002, 12:48 AM
This face has come along way. It looks very much like him now. I look forward to seeing this model completed very much. Great Job!!!!!!!:D

mariners2001
09-07-2002, 12:49 AM
yeah, he still looks a bit cross eyed. otherwise, very nice!

PS. I want to learn how to MODEL!!! i need a tutorial that is actually helpful. ah well

KevinCoyle
09-07-2002, 01:03 AM
Yeah, I guess he still is a bit cross eyed, no big deal to fix.

I just want to take this opportunity to thank everyone for the compliments and constructive critism. You've all been a big help in helping me get the head to look right. No one really said "This model blows" in the early stages of develpment when it's obviously not going to look good. I appreciate that.

Eldritch
09-07-2002, 08:40 AM
Kevin,

I suggest going back to skinned eyes versus real ones. With the skinned ones it looked WAY more like him. Since you changed to "real" eyes, I think it's lost his likeness. Just change it out again and put two pics of it side by side (one skinned eyes, one real) and you'll see what I mean.

Also, here's some links for reference pics:
http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/Miscellaneous&image=Kenobi2.jpg&img=&tt=

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/A_New_Hope&image=obiwan5.jpg&img=&tt=

Zedar
09-07-2002, 05:42 PM
Looks quite nice
At least it looks like Ben, the skins we have now don't

There are way too many great models coming:D
It's annoying to know that there are so many of them coming
Well....I'll see what I'll do when they come out:)

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-07-2002, 07:12 PM
Wow man I just got back home and I checked the forums. The updates are much better then I had expected. You've come a long way in such a short time. Great work man. Can't wait to see what you do next. Also a suggestion, Maybe try to make a cloaked version and a noncloaked version (like Tyrion). Or make two versions, one with the anh clothes and one with the aotc clothes. Just a suggestion. Take it easy everyone. ;)

SithMaster01
09-07-2002, 08:30 PM
Jessman can you give me JediPlus3.4

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-07-2002, 09:15 PM
here (http://www.jediknightii.net/files/index.php?link=file&id=925) ya go man. We actually use this mod on our server. Jetpacks are now available for use on this mod and our server. :) **plug** Take it easy fellas. ;)

keo718
09-07-2002, 10:37 PM
Only slight adjusments would perfect it. Such as giving him a bit less forehead, and having his ears come out more. But its a great resemblance.

BradFu
09-07-2002, 10:49 PM
My only suggestion right now is to change the angle of his eyebrows a bit. Bring the outsides of the eyebrows up a bit and the insides down. Right now he looks a bit sad, and while in some ways that would be in character for him, he seemed to have more of a mischevious look to him most of the time :)

Eldritch
09-10-2002, 04:59 PM
Bumpity bump bump bump.

KevinCoyle
09-10-2002, 07:27 PM
Here is an early rendering of the body with the head. I haven't attached the head yet because the two halves of the body haven't been welding together yet. He currently does not have the brown robe. Any suggestions would be helpful.

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody1.jpg

keo718
09-10-2002, 08:33 PM
His body looks a bit short and stubby.

KevinCoyle
09-10-2002, 09:40 PM
Easy enough to fix, this one should look better..........

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody2.jpg

keo718
09-10-2002, 10:28 PM
Is that him with the robe on? If so the robe should come over his feet, and it should be alot baggier. I think that may be the problem. It looks better than before though.

Edit: That and his arms look a little short.

nomad
09-10-2002, 10:55 PM
Thanks for the pics, you're starting to get me excited.
Are you using the .xsi skeleton as a basis to build the model around? That will help make sure you have the arm lengths and such at good lengths.
I would say that his torso looks a little too wide or thick from the front. That looks like the thickness he'd probably have with his outer brown robe on. I also agree that his arms seem to be short.
The belt might be a bit too low, but more apparent to me is that he should have a wide peice of cloth around his waist with the leather belt centered over it. You may have known that and just not gotten to it yet, but I just figured I'd offer everything I could think of right off the bat.
Well anyway, it is very cool seeing a body being made for good old Ben Kenobi!

-nomad

MTFBWY

KevinCoyle
09-11-2002, 01:51 AM
I've Uvwmapped the model, and I've just started on the skins. Mostly all it is now is color with a few temperary lines I'm using to fit everything together and the make sure the robe lines up on the seperate parts. I know not all the lines line up yet, the robe is reversed on the torso in relation to the robe over the legs.

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody3.jpg

nomad
09-11-2002, 03:01 AM
Very cool!!
Oh, Heh I see you do have the cloth belt there.
I don't know how much you've tweaked anything, but it looks better now, possibly just because the basic colors are in place.
He still may be a bit too solid in the chest, but I'm sure you'll tweak it right. This model is looking very nice.
I really think you've captured his face extremely well.

I made a soundpack for Old Ben a while ago, and I was just making a new one with sounds fresh from the laserdiscs because my freind was going to make a model of him. However, your likeness is so good, it looks as though we'll be very happy with your work. I was wondering if you would like me to contribute towards the soundpack? Just let me know if you'd rather handle that yourself, because I can understand that.
Great job so far, and thanks for your hard work.

-nomad

MTFBWY

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-11-2002, 05:01 AM
Wow, Kevin I am most impressed. I knew my hunch was right. You're quite a modeler. Let us know when this model is up on jkii.net. Thanks for the great model man. :D

Eldritch
09-11-2002, 08:10 AM
I think the tabards (strips of cloth that lay over the shoulders and extend below the belt should be longer... I'm not sure as I haven't seen good reference shots of him, but I'll watch the OT again and take notes. I just seem to remember them being longer.

hawk_of_war
09-11-2002, 11:34 AM
I hope that isn't the final skin. Obiwan's robe was a lot darker than that.

[edit]
Plus his shirt under the robe was white. If you reverse the colors on the clothing it would look much better.

Eldritch
09-11-2002, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by KevinCoyle
I've Uvwmapped the model, and I've just started on the skins. Mostly all it is now is color with a few temperary lines I'm using to fit everything together and the make sure the robe lines up on the seperate parts. I know not all the lines line up yet, the robe is reversed on the torso in relation to the robe over the legs.

http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody3.jpg

Hawk of War,
Did you even read the post that accompanied the link? He clearly stated "I've just started on the skins." Read the posts next time before you ask a question that's *already* been answered.

hawk_of_war
09-11-2002, 04:15 PM
Well, aren't we all high and mighty.

Eldritch
09-11-2002, 04:59 PM
Just answering your question.

KevinCoyle
09-11-2002, 06:08 PM
To hawk_of_war:

Yes, this isn't even close to the final skin. Also he isn't wearing the outer brown robe, just the white inner one, like in this picture
.benluke (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benluke.jpg)
I'm adding the brown robe later.

To Jedi_Anakin_S

Your right, the tabards are a bit longer, I'll fix them

KevinCoyle
09-11-2002, 08:32 PM
to nomad: I'd like to hear what you put together for your soundpack. Do you think you could e-mail it to me? My e-mail address is KevinCoyle@nc.rr.com

hawk_of_war
09-11-2002, 08:36 PM
When they where on the Death Star I coulda sworn he had a white shirt on with a brown robe, not 2 robes of differ colors and a brown shirt.

hawk_of_war
09-11-2002, 08:40 PM
In the process of trying to confirm what I said I discovered that good old George screwed up on the costumes in the movie. There are actually times when his outer robe was grey in color rather than brown. By this point I'm so confused that you can do anything you want to and I won't complain.

KevinCoyle
09-11-2002, 09:58 PM
Here's the latest Image. I've mostly been working on the skin, and made a few adjustments to the model here and there.

BenKenobi4 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody4.jpg)

keo718
09-11-2002, 10:02 PM
Looking nice. He could use a little more neck though.

edit: Also, his brown inner shirt goes around his neck, almost in turtleneck fashion.

Eklin
09-12-2002, 09:13 PM
Sweet mother of Force that's an awesome model. I admit that I was a bit skepticle when I saw your first screen, but right now..... well *drools*

It's a perfect likeness to Sir Alec Guiness (may he rest in peace).

I can't wait to take on Vader with this guy.

Eldritch
09-12-2002, 09:37 PM
It's coming along nicely, but he looks like he's from Holland (wooden shoes) with those shoes/boots whatever he's got. Hope when it's skinned this will be fixed. The length of the tabards looks about right now.

SiThLoRd><1000
09-13-2002, 01:50 AM
I don't think it was George that errored Hawk...

KevinCoyle
09-13-2002, 02:10 AM
I've done some more work on the skin, added definition and detail. Here's an updated shot.

benbody5 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody5.jpg)

žith Lord
09-13-2002, 02:38 AM
Wow, thats quite an improvement. This Model Is looking very well indeed. my only complaint is his face is too blurry, and looks like a streched out photo pasted on the model. The robes however look wonderful.

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-13-2002, 06:58 AM
Well, me personally I have no complaints. It's looking awesome. And I hope you include a robed version. ;)

frendon
09-13-2002, 09:38 AM
it is looking good, but also include a robed version please!!!!!

fat_101
09-13-2002, 09:46 AM
was woundering what taunts hes gonna have (stupid question i guess)

if u strike me down..... blah blah
dont give into h8
may the force be with u always
trust in ur feelings
etc

FATTEH

Eldritch
09-13-2002, 12:31 PM
I hate to dwell on the tabards, but I think they're too far apart from each other (below the belt) and also below the belt they appear skinnier than above the belt. Also take care to make sure that they appear more seperate from the bottom half of the model. Right now they just look like part of the skin.

KevinCoyle
09-13-2002, 01:35 PM
I added his robe, no skin on it yet.

benbody6 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody6.jpg)

The tabards are about that far apart in most of the reference pictures I'm using, and they're the same width below and above the belt but I think the problem is the edges of the tabards above the belt are not defined enough, I'll work on that next. You'll see what I mean once I fix the problem

hawk_of_war
09-13-2002, 01:37 PM
Originally posted by SiThLoRd&gt;&lt;1000
I don't think it was George that errored Hawk...
:eyeraise:

frendon
09-13-2002, 02:09 PM
wow!! the robed version looks awesome!!

keo718
09-13-2002, 03:18 PM
Looking real good.

Flamegrape
09-13-2002, 03:26 PM
Really good work so far! Keep it up!

Darth-Nasty
09-13-2002, 03:28 PM
this model is looking really good now!

when i saw the first few pics i thought it was good but it has improved greatly

after seeing the latest pic with the robe i am really looking forward to the release:)

SiThLoRd><1000
09-13-2002, 06:45 PM
Hawk,
I meant no offense. I'm just saying to pin things on people that are really our own mistakes is not cool.

Scarlet Widow
09-13-2002, 08:25 PM
Just don't forget to make his body longer and in proportion, he looks like a midget right now :p

Looking good other than that...

KevinCoyle
09-13-2002, 08:30 PM
A midget? I don't see how. His proportions are correctly set to the bones for a Jedi Knight 2 humanoid. If a make his body longer he won't fit the bones anymore.

Toonces
09-13-2002, 08:41 PM
I'm not sure that's what Scarlet Widow meant exactly. I think keo nailed it though, you just have to slant his shoulders a little, he looks just a little too bulky up in the torso area, makes him look younger and stronger than the charecter is. You can cheat the Skeleton a little bit

The Textures look very nice, your doing a great job on Obi :D

Toonces
www.drivingcatstudios.com
Powered by Sith :lightning

Midgit Yoda
09-13-2002, 11:59 PM
Man this model is coming along great. I'll admit on the first screen you posted I was like, oh god but now I'm blown away. Looks great, keep it up.

KevinCoyle
09-14-2002, 12:09 AM
perhaps I did post my first screenshot a little too early.....

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-14-2002, 12:11 AM
Well, Kevin despite your own opinion I think that was a smart move. It helps any would be modelers out there. Shows them that it doesn't look this good at first. For that I think you made a good move. :D

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-14-2002, 01:09 AM
Ok, I think everyone needs to calm down. If you're irratated with something someone has said bring it up to them in a pm, not in someones model thread. Just out of respect for the modeler.

ASk
09-14-2002, 03:13 PM
The posts that the flame war started in were deleted.

Please do not do that next time, that could lead you to be banned.

SiThLoRd><1000
09-14-2002, 03:53 PM
I'm sorry Ask. I'll try to be more respectful to Odd and other modelers. I just don't like people who pop off and at the same time are ignorent...

SpYzEr
09-15-2002, 12:51 AM
Wow its looking great KevilCoyle... can't wait till its finished :D

Scarlet Widow
09-15-2002, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by KevinCoyle
A midget? I don't see how. His proportions are correctly set to the bones for a Jedi Knight 2 humanoid. If a make his body longer he won't fit the bones anymore.

Is it really? :eek:

Did you base the body off of one of the original JKII meshes? Maybe it is just the shoulders as meantioned.. i don't know, something looks very wrong though.

EDIT:
Looking at it a little more closely, the problem is definetly because of the shoulders and the waist.. he just looks too wide.

KevinCoyle
09-17-2002, 02:17 AM
Almost finished. Really all that's left is to add a bit more detail to the robe skin, smooth some seams in the skin and fix some Unwrapping errors that you'll notice in one of the below renderings, after that and a few more things are tweaked, I'll be ready to start setting Ben up for the game.

Here's a full screenshot

FullScreenshot (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody7.jpg)

And a shot of the face

FaceShot (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benfaceupdate.jpg)

Darth Vigrid
09-17-2002, 02:27 AM
That looks good, but I think you might run into some issues with the sleeves clipping his sides. To fix this, You could angle the wide part away from his body.

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-17-2002, 02:51 AM
Though I think it looks great I have one suggestion. I would suggest that you have the ends of the sleeves point back and not to his side. Only because most of the time his arms will be bent (when holding a saber/gun). But it does look fantastic. Thanks for making a robed version. You've done great. :)

Lol, oh sorry Vigrid beat me to it.

Toonces
09-17-2002, 02:54 AM
Jedi Hunter, that's one thing I forgot to mention before, with Palpatine I had to model the sleeves pointing backwards. If you rig them like you have them now, when he holds weapons, the sleeves will be diging right into his torso

KevinCoyle
09-17-2002, 03:14 PM
Fixed the sleeves, thanks for the tip, I checked some other models in progress when I started on the body a noticed they had the sleeves the same way I did, I figured it would be alright, but since you guys have already gotten models with drooping sleeves into the game(Emperor Palpatine & Joruus C'Boath(looking forward to both BTW)), you'd know better than I would. You probably saved me alot of trouble.

keo718
09-17-2002, 04:19 PM
This looks real good. Is it ingame yet?

Eldritch
09-17-2002, 05:41 PM
A few comments/suggestions:

1) I think the skin is lacking some serious detail. Ben's clothes had a much more rough texture, and were frayed in some places. Your textures look smooth and new. Try and get them a little closer to the movies, if possible.

2) I think there is something missing in the face. When I see it, I just don't think, "Yep! That's Ben Kenobi." Maybe it's something in the eyes. It doesn't look quite right.

In general, it just looks a little rushed to me. I'm very excited about a Ben Kenobi model, I would just prefer it to be the best it can possibly be. A good approach to take would be to not "sacrifice quality for speed," as -Tercero- has said (when it comes to modeling). Really take your time and try to make it look as much like Ben as possible. It's good right now, but it could be great! And without greatness, I'm still kinda hungry for a great Ben Kenobi model/skin.

nomad
09-17-2002, 07:34 PM
Looking really nice :)

I was wondering if you received my emails. Let me know if you want to take me up on my offer.

I honestly think that the face looks fantastic. The underobes look really good, but I agree that the outer robe doesn't quite look beaten up enough.
I have one other suggestion. The bottom of his under-robe (the beige robes) only really ever opened up when he was sitting down. And even then I only remember them opening up when he was in Dagobah talking to Luke (ROTJ). It may even help you in the weighting process to close those under-robes at the bottom.
Not a big deal, just something that caught my eye. His robes generally hung down almost like a long skirt.

-nomad

MTFBWY

SiThLoRd><1000
09-17-2002, 07:52 PM
You may have answered this, but I was too lazy to read through all the posts so Are you going to make an unrobed and hooded robed? (One with just the underrobes and another with his cloak hood up) Just curious...

<JOTD>Jedi Hunter
09-18-2002, 08:22 AM
Sithlord brings up a great point. No one's ever done a hooded robed Jedi model before. I think you should seriously considor that. That would be pretty sweet.

Eldritch
09-18-2002, 10:10 PM
Forget about robed/unrobed. I'll settle for the most accurate model of Ben Kenobi. Get that done, then I'll start worrying about robed/hooded/unrobed versions. ;)

omeo
09-19-2002, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by JEDI_Anakin_S

2) I think there is something missing in the face. When I see it, I just don't think, "Yep! That's Ben Kenobi." Maybe it's something in the eyes. It doesn't look quite right.



I couldn't disagree more.

keo718
09-19-2002, 01:05 AM
Me too. If you look at the side by side shot, theres little more he can do to the face.

Eldritch
09-19-2002, 08:17 AM
How about fixing the eyes? Ben wasn't from Asia, so why are his eyes shaped like he is?

nomad
09-20-2002, 04:19 AM
I have to admit that I've been hoping you would make a hood up and a hood down version. I hate "asking" for things from people that are already doing such a cool voluntary service, but since it's been brought up, I just figured I'd chime in with my greedy desire. :giggle1:

Hope you don't mind, you just seem to be doing such a bang up job on this model. I'd love to see you complete it with all those variants, so that this could be the "Be all end all" for Old Ben models (As far as I'm concerned)

-nomad

MTFBWY

Eldritch
09-20-2002, 09:42 AM
Not that there are any other Old Ben *models* to compare it with, so I guess we'll have to take what we can get.

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
09-21-2002, 02:14 AM
Ok, I've looked at many different reference pictures of ben and I've made some alterations to the face, I think it looks more like him now, but let me know what you all think. I've also added more wrinkles inner robe (haven't gotten to the brown one yet). Let me know what you think so far. I also pulled the drooping part of the sleeves back behind the arms, you can't see it in this render but they're there

BenBody 8 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody8.jpg)

To Jedi_Anakin_S: I got a little ahead of myself when I posted that I was almost finished with the model. I think I was just eager to get it in the game, but I decided shortly after that post that I really wanted to make it good. I want this model to be accurate and I want it to be something everyone will enjoy playing JK2 with. That's why I created this thread, so you and everyone else here can help me make it into a model you all will like, not something you download simply because there aren't any alternatives. Just be patient with me and hopefully this model will turn out to be the "most accurate model of Ben Kenobi" your looking for.

Also I don't mind making a hooded version also, If that's what you guys would like, I'll add that later on down the road.

mariners2001
09-21-2002, 02:16 AM
looks very nice, but looks as though he has no shoulders and where is his neck?

Darth Vigrid
09-21-2002, 02:28 AM
Good job KevinCoyle, Glad to see your commited to making the best representation of Ben as possible. I was actually thinking of making this model as my next project, but you beat me to it. No big deal though, the game really needs a good Ben Kenobi model. Have you given any thoughts to alternative skins, such as a ghost obi-wan for instance?

KevinCoyle
09-21-2002, 02:28 AM
The reason why it may look like he has no neck is because 1, part of it is behind the beard, and 2, his shirt is sort of a turtle-neck, it may look to you that it goes right from chest to head. That may also be why you said he has no shoulders(?) though I didn't slope them a little because it was recommended I do so

KevinCoyle
09-21-2002, 02:30 AM
Have you given any thoughts to alternative skins, such as a ghost obi-wan for instance.

Not as of yet, though that would be interesting.

Midgit Yoda
09-21-2002, 02:47 AM
I still personally think his eyes are crossed, that's bone number one that I'm picking.
Bone number two is, his robe sleeves don't have that dangling feeling that a big robe should. It looks like they're tight on him making him have fat arms. Kinda loosen em up a bit. Keep in mind when a robe sleeve is coming off of your arm it doesn't put your arm in the middle of the robe sleeve, you're arm is at the top of the robe sleeve with the rest of it dangling down. Also it looks like the robe also is tight around the chest, add more depth to the actual mesh and make it dangle as well. My good friend taught me that :) hehe you know who you are. :)

keo718
09-21-2002, 03:19 AM
His eyes do look crossed. But besides that the face is very good.

his robe sleeves don't have that dangling feeling that a big robe should. It looks like they're tight on him making him have fat arms.
Perhaps because the sleeve is facing backwards. If you check the previous shots, they were facing downward.

Eldritch
09-21-2002, 10:01 AM
Kevin Coyle,

I'm glad you've decided to take your time and put out the best model you can - you won't regret it, I'm sure.

Now for the nitpicking. ;)

From what I can tell (without a closeup) the face/head looks better, but I submit his eyes ARE NOT crossed, just placed too close together. If possible, spread them apart just a little bit (not too much) and see how it looks.

I'm not sure if you've mentioned this, but that brown inner turtle neck thing looks a little too 3-D, and would never reflect light like that. Also (and I know this has been mentioned before, I'm just bringing it to your attention again) the inner robe, the one that goes to the floor, shouldn't be split like that ordinarily. It split in that one scene in the beginning of New Hope where they were watching the hologram of Leia. The rest of the movie, they hung together, side by side, so that it looked more like a long skirt. Perhaps make the split thinner so that the pieces are closer together.

As for the robe, it looks like he's wearing a ski parka underneath that robe because of how much his arms are puffed out. Even if it is tilted backwards as Keo suggests, it looks a little too puffy. The robe also should hang slightly away from the rest of his body, and maybe not go straight down (Jedi robes are full and flowing, and much bigger than the people who actually wear them). Right now he couldn't close that robe in the front of him due to how tight it's wrapped around him now. Oh and I think his turtle neck thing matched his robe color, but i'm not sure.
That's all for now, keep up the good work.

-Anakin

Wuggie
09-21-2002, 05:35 PM
everything looks great but... theres one thing. Feet, I dont mean to be picky but where are his feet?

shred_lord
09-21-2002, 06:37 PM
First of all, I must say, WOW! DROOOOOL.

Now the constructive bit.

1. Though the face is a great likeness, he look very solemn and almost stern. I've allways felt that the best thing about him was that certain boyish twinkle mischief in his eyes. Especially when he says, "You must learn the ways of the force, if your to come with me to Alderan." However, when he actually fights he is all buisness, so having the stern look is probably more appropriate.

2. I know it been said, but, the inner robe would look more authentic if the split wasn't visible.

I have more points, but coincidently I've just been told that my sister and father are putting star wars ANH on, so I'm off to watch that.

Great work so far, keep it up.

S

Toonces
09-21-2002, 06:49 PM
The head is a great likeness, I was going to do a Old Ben model but you beat me to it, and I'm glad, I couldnt have even gotten close :D

I actually think it's just the position of the pupils that is making him look crosseyes, perhaps just adjusting the skin would make it look better

On the inner tunic, I'm sure you havent finished shading the body yet so that part shred mentioned I bet your not finished with yet.

Great model :)

bleek
09-21-2002, 07:13 PM
I luv it! But is it just me or do the arms look a little bit too short. The elbows should meet the waste just about.

SiThLoRd><1000
09-22-2002, 01:32 PM
I'm glad you'll hook us up with a hooded one too. Awesome. Also, I'm no skinner, but when you make a ghost effect I've heard all you do is add certain shaders and such. Is that accurate?

(If so, that would not be too hard, would it?)

Eldritch
09-22-2002, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by bleek
I luv it! But is it just me or do the arms look a little bit too short. The elbows should meet the waste just about.

Bleek,

On a real life human being, the fingertips should fall about mid-thigh. If the elbows were at the waist, we'd all walk like gorillas. ;)

-Anakin

bleek
09-22-2002, 02:33 PM
Elbows fall about where your hips meet your mid-section. And yes fingertips fall at about the mid part of your hips. If you put his arms down...i dont see that happening unless it is just cuz he robes look long.

or now that i look at it....like the top part of the arm isnt in porportion with the length of the lower arm...i dunno just looks odd to me. Mabey the puffy sleaves in the middle seem to puff out in the middle then not be as ***** at the ends. Can you take a pic of another angle next time?

mmmkay it bleeped out the word p-uffy.

KevinCoyle
09-23-2002, 06:23 AM
Here is another update. I've added some wrinkles to the outer robe and adjusted it some to make it look looser. I also worked on the arms a little, tried to make them less puffy, let me know if it looks better the you. As far as the eyes go, I think it was just the position of the pupils like Toonces suggested, when I tried to move the eyes apart even the slightest bit, he really didn't look right anymore.

Update 9 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benbody9.jpg)

Uber Sith
09-23-2002, 06:41 AM
Real nice there....I have one or two constructive critisism for ya...

I really like it but i think that the arms should be able to drape off him instead of making his arms look massive...make th ends by the hands drop down low and the cloths lay on the shuolders.

The white part needs a little more ...how can i say it...more cloths feel to it more ripple in ..

looking great though

Eldritch
09-23-2002, 08:23 AM
It's looking better, Kevin. Can we get a close up shot of the face? While he no longer looks crosseyed, we haven't seen him close up for a while. As for the robe and the rest of the body, it looks better, but as Uber Sith was trying to say, I think the sleeves on the outer robe are more narrow at the shoulder, and get larger the closer you go to the wrist (rather than being one length the entire time). The outer robe still looks a little tight around his body as well. Also, try and work on getting more of a sense of depth on his white clothes... right now they all look like they're part of the same layer with his brown turtleneck.

-Anakin

bleek
09-23-2002, 05:47 PM
Yeah I think that looks better. I agree with that one dood about making the top part of the arms that connect to the shoulders not as puffed out as the lower part.

KevinCoyle
09-23-2002, 06:21 PM
Here's a shot of the face. I'll see what I can do about the arms. Any suggestions on how to make the robe look looser? The only thing I can think of without adding more polygons is to add more wrinkles to the robe skin.

Benface (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benface.jpg)

bleek
09-23-2002, 06:25 PM
I dun exactly know what he looks like...but from my memory that looks REALLY REALLY nice.

frendon
09-23-2002, 06:32 PM
it is looking real good!!!, maybe it is 2 soon 2 be posting taunts but hear this one, there is no background sound of any kind i don't think that is Alec Guiness voice but it hears just like it

http://fernandorendon.5u.com/sounds/STRIKEMEDOWN.mp3

Eklin
09-23-2002, 06:49 PM
It looks like the robe actually gets narrower as it goes down the arm. So, either make the sleeves of the robe a little wider at the hands, or make them narrower up at the shoulders.
Also, where exactly is the hood?

Enjoi9187
09-23-2002, 06:58 PM
only thing i can say, is add some more accent and wrinkles to the cheeks and under eyes, and maybe a BIT more dark in he beard

Scotchy
09-23-2002, 07:51 PM
Looking very nice indeed... just one suggestion: Fix the eyes... his eyes were blue. Am I right about this? I think I am.

Other than that, really nice job on that model.

keo718
09-23-2002, 08:20 PM
Kevin, that is very nice.

Padawan_7
09-23-2002, 08:45 PM
I think its looking great Kevin!!! :D
The likeness is incredible!

The robe needs just a little more work to make it hang properly on the shoulders and the arms.

Eldritch
09-23-2002, 08:49 PM
The face is pretty good! I would add more detail to the hair/beard, because right now the textures are a little soft and look blurry.

About the robe, I would just pull it away from his body so it doesn't go straight down. Perhaps trailing behind him a little bit so his legs don't clip through it when the model walks around? Just ideas.

-Anakin

SiThLoRd><1000
09-24-2002, 12:39 AM
I also agree with Anakin. The image (maybe texture as well) needs to be sharper.

frendon
09-24-2002, 01:16 AM
has anyone listened to the taunt i posted?

MUHAHAHAHAHA
09-24-2002, 02:33 AM
Yes, I have heard that taunt, and it is most certainly not Alec Guiness. If you'd like, I can find some good ones...

frendon
09-24-2002, 01:43 PM
yes i know is not him, but it is a good alternative to the same line in the film that would have a lot background sound

morphius_doh
09-24-2002, 02:03 PM
Is there a way to edit the word "Darth" from the quote "You can't win Darth. If you strike me down I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine."

I think if the word is removed then this would make an excellent taunt,

frendon
09-24-2002, 03:01 PM
uh but in the sound that i posted, he only says "if you strike me down i will become more powerfull than you can possibly imagine" that's why i think it would make a great taunt.

It doesn't include "darth" so it can be direceted to anyone

shred_lord
09-24-2002, 03:11 PM
Er yes, but unfortunetly, it sounds nothing like Alec Guiness!

frendon
09-24-2002, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by shred_lord
Er yes, but unfortunetly, it sounds nothing like Alec Guiness!
c'mon!! it does sound like him :( , haha anyway just trying to help if you don't like it it's your choice and i'm not in charge of the taunts

Eldritch
09-24-2002, 05:50 PM
Why not just throw out the whole "you can't win, Darth," line? Just make it "if you strike me down I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine." It'd be tough to edit out the Darth part (and make it sound good), so I say just get rid of it and keep the second part.

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
09-24-2002, 07:20 PM
I could also seperate the two as two taunts. One that says "You can't win" and another saying "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful that you can possibly imagine."

SiThLoRd><1000
09-24-2002, 07:43 PM
Those two taunts would be best. Also, Kevin, are you going to make an unrobed Obi. The one like at his hut and on the Falcon when he senses something terrible. (I asked that earlier and you answered all but that one, hehe)

KevinCoyle
09-24-2002, 08:33 PM
Yes, there will be unrobed version, a robed with hood down and a robed with hood up

SiThLoRd><1000
09-24-2002, 11:26 PM
Cool, Thanks.

Marth
09-26-2002, 05:30 PM
wish i knew how to make player models :(

Eldritch
09-26-2002, 05:49 PM
Originally posted by Marth
wish i knew how to make player models :(

Wish you'd take the time to read the tutorials and threads on the subject rather than saying something like this in every single thread.

-Anakin

-s/<itzo-
09-26-2002, 11:06 PM
looks great. da face and da clothes has much improved. you should make da sleeves of da rob a bit bigger though. is there any in game screen shots coming soon. can't wait.

Andy867
09-27-2002, 10:12 AM
Hey Kevin, this is my first posting on this WIP model, but I must say it looks great. My only critique is with the whiteness in the eyes.. For Some reason, it looked more yellow than white. So if you could 2-3 shades of white (but not TOO Much) it'd be great. But keep up the awesome work. Definitely a great resemblance of the teacher of the model that I am most waiting for... :D

Eldritch
09-27-2002, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by LBuRNa
looks great. da face and da clothes has much improved. you should make da sleeves of da rob a bit bigger though. is there any in game screen shots coming soon. can't wait.

What the hell is a rob? If you mean ROBE, it's spelled R-O-B-E. I can understand people that don't know how to speak, but can't comprehend the people that don't take the time to type properly. There's absolutely no reason to type the way you (might) talk - that is, unless you want to look unintelligent.

-Anakin

Toonces
09-27-2002, 03:42 PM
heh, off topic, but just for the record, people from this area don't really talk like that :) I've met people who do and 99 out of 100 times it's just a fašade :)

-s/<itzo-
09-27-2002, 07:22 PM
holy SHlT jedi_anakin_s for real get off my DICK. thats like the 5th time you tryin to diss me. damn my bad if i left out an E in robe. but why do you care so much. and why do you always say something stupid after my posts. you always talk down to me. this is not the first time you did this. i think your really got something against me. get this in your head this is not an essay why are you taking my spelling or grammar so seriously. thats just pointless. everyone knows what i'm tyin to say you just wanna be a dick about it though. damn you need to get a life. i mean you registered in september right and you already have 100 or so posts. i guess you have a lot of time in your hands or maybe most of your posts are stupid just like what you just wrote. for real you taking this whole star wars thing a bit too serious. i bet in your own little world you think you are the real anakin and you make your friends call you annie. anyways i suggest some counseling or maybe some prozac might help if not i really don't know what else to say.

nomad
09-27-2002, 09:34 PM
"Luke... Don't give in to anger. That leads to the darkside."

(was that a good segue back to the WIP topic?)

Oh Kevin, are you ignoring me because I don't have a fancy icon? ;)

Eldritch
09-27-2002, 11:51 PM
I won't even bother dignifying that with a response. Instead of wasting your energy flaming me, why don't you put your energy into something else? Like leaving constructive posts rather than just the inane bable you spew all over the place.

Anyway, Kevin, any updates on the model?

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
09-28-2002, 01:04 AM
Right now I'm in the process of working out the flaws in the skin and model, making sure everything looks right. I had re-map the side of his head, there was too much distortion that I didn't really notice before. When I finished I'm going to render a front and back of the robed version, and a front and back of the unrobed version, and then a closeup of his face, that way, everyone will see the whole model and we can get it perfect for the game

Eklin
09-28-2002, 02:31 AM
1. Can't wait to see the different perspectives of the model (front, back, sides), Kevin. There's probably a lot of detail that's going un-noticed without them. You're doing an excellent job, and I can't wait until this is released.

2. Anakin, you're whole "What the hell is a rob? If you mean ROBE, it's spelled R-O-B-E." post was just completely moronic. So he misspelled robe. Whoop-dee-freaking-doo. Get a life.

3. LBuRNa, you should definitely try and work on using proper grammar. Although "da face and da clothes has much improved" IS understandable, it's really annoying.

Woodrodius
09-28-2002, 04:25 AM
No, Jedi_Anakin_S has every right to be extremely angry, Typo's are grounds for execution in some countries. Unlease your unbridled rage!!!

Eldritch
09-29-2002, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Eklin

2. Anakin, you're whole "What the hell is a rob? If you mean ROBE, it's spelled R-O-B-E." post was just completely moronic. So he misspelled robe. Whoop-dee-freaking-doo. Get a life.


There's no need for you to insult me, Eklin. I went off like that because i'd seen LBurna in several threads that day, and his particular style of typing grates on my nerves. There's only so much I can take. We all have our breaking points, and our pet peeves, so please - cut me some slack here.

But, lets get away from the bickering here; I won't be saying anything else on the subject, so let's consider it case closed and get back to the point of this thread - the model.

-Anakin

-s/<itzo-
09-29-2002, 01:58 AM
jedi_anakin_s i just want to ask you something. what's an " inane bable " thats a new word that i haven't heard before. common you do the same thing too. no ones perfect. everybody type typos here and there. if i made you mad i'm sorry but you really push me to the end. you were making fun of how i talk, calling me names, you don't even know me. whats wrong with the word "da" seriously. you act like an english teacher. you take the way i talk much seriously than the topic. stick to the thread instead of picking on people you don't even know. i hate how you talk down to me. theres no need for that. if the way i talk really gets to everybody then i'll stop but if you keep replying with stupid remarks i having nothing to do but retaliate.

everybody i'm sorry if the tread got a bit sidetrack. i just had to say what i have to say. please continue.

Enjoi9187
09-29-2002, 02:04 AM
inane: One that lacks sense or substance: interrupting with inane comments; angry with my inane roommate.

babel: A confusion of sounds or voices. See Synonyms at noise.
A scene of noise and confusion.

Woodrodius
09-29-2002, 04:16 AM
Woodrodius: 1. An Adonis, one adored by women. 2. Individual of immense class and style, see pimp.

Enjoi9187
09-29-2002, 10:24 AM
lulu

n : a very attractive or seductive looking woman [syn: smasher, stunner, knockout, beauty, sweetheart, peach, looker, mantrap, dish]

luĚlu Pronunciation Key (ll)
n. Slang
A remarkable person, object, or idea.

lulu, FL
Zip code(s): 32061

Eklin
09-29-2002, 07:00 PM
Originally posted by JEDI_Anakin_S


There's no need for you to insult me, Eklin. I went off like that because i'd seen LBurna in several threads that day, and his particular style of typing grates on my nerves. There's only so much I can take. We all have our breaking points, and our pet peeves, so please - cut me some slack here.

But, lets get away from the bickering here; I won't be saying anything else on the subject, so let's consider it case closed and get back to the point of this thread - the model.

-Anakin

Yes, I can understand and relate with the whole pet-peeve thing, and I appologize for reacting as harshly as I did. I guess my own breaking point had been reached at that time.

So, let's try to keep this thread clean of this kind of filth in the future, and stick to the main topic at hand: this kick ass Ben Kenobi model.

keo718
09-29-2002, 09:11 PM
babel: A confusion of sounds or voices. See Synonyms at noise.

I believe Jedi Anakin meant babble, not babel.

Eldritch
09-29-2002, 11:31 PM
No Keo, I did mean babel, not babble. It's pointless now though. So what's new on the model, Kev-O?

-Anakin

Edit : In other news, I was re-watching A New Hope the other night and saw something interesting. I don't know if this will affect plans for the non-robed version (if there even will be one) but I noticed that Obi-Wans tabards are actually one LONG piece of fabric, unlike the other jedi. It just goes behind his neck and down the other side of his body. I think the only place you can see this is when they're escaping Mos Eisley/Tattoine on the Millenium Falcon and Luke and Ben run to strap themselves in before the jump into hyperspace. Ben turns his back to the camera for a split second but if you pause it (or just have quick eyes) you can see what I mean.

KevinCoyle
10-01-2002, 09:51 PM
is this just in the back of his robe? I know the tabards are split in the front

Eldritch
10-01-2002, 09:55 PM
The tabards are actually not tabard(s), it's a tabard - for Old Ben, it's just *one* piece of fabric! They're separated in the front like normal, but instead of each slinging over his shoulder and going straight down his back, it's just *one* long piece of fabric that goes behind his neck and back down the other side of the front of his body. Hard to describe in words... just watch the movie, you'll see what I'm talking about.

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
10-01-2002, 10:01 PM
I think I see what your saying, the "tabard" is just like the robe itself, split in front of the neck and solid behind. Does the backpiece hang down the same length as the front?

Eldritch
10-01-2002, 10:05 PM
I think you're missing what I'm saying. There is NO backpiece, and it's not split. Imagine the tabard like a LONG scarf, and he's draped it over his neck so that it runs down his front on his left and right side. If you still don't understand, watch the movie... there's no reference pics that show this.

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
10-01-2002, 10:18 PM
I went ahead and watched the part you mentioned, and I see what your talking about now. Thanks for pointing that out to me, it will help me reduce the polycount by removing the tabards in the back, the number was beginning to get high.

frendon
10-01-2002, 10:36 PM
ok for everybody that didn't get that i'm going to ilustrate here is the front and back pic of what they are talking about:

http://fernandorendon.5u.com/pics/obitabard.JPG

KevinCoyle
10-01-2002, 10:52 PM
Another clip that actually shows where it wraps around the neck is when obi-wan sits behind luke and chewie in the ****pit of the Millenium falcon shortly before Han says "Watch your mouth kid, or your gonna find yourself floating home!" When they're trying to get away from the star destroyers after leaving tatooine

Eldritch
10-01-2002, 10:53 PM
No problem Kevin - glad I could help!

And thanks Frendon for the pic... now everyone will know I'm not crazy, heh heh.

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
10-01-2002, 11:26 PM
Anybody have any ideas for pain sounds? I've got a list written up for everything that I want for death and taunt, but I don't have pain sounds. I'd like to avoid phrases or sentences, it get's rather annoying when your fighting a someone and they keep repeating the same thing over and over again. Two examples are Vader and Tyranus, You'll be fighting Vader and he goes "it is useless to resist, it is useless to resist over and over again, Tyranus (or dooku) always says "brave of you boy, brave of you boy" over and over again. I don't know about the rest of you, but I find that very annoying, any ideas?

Eldritch
10-02-2002, 10:05 AM
If you don't like the idea of sound clips, I think your only other alternative is to find someone who can do a Alec Guiness impression and have that person make some "pain sounds" for you, because to my knowledge there's none for him in the movies.

-Anakin

shaolin_blade
10-02-2002, 11:27 AM
I get sick of hearing those long clips, too. Dooku is bad, but Jar-Jar got flat out annoying.

I replaced Dooku's pain and death sounds with the generic MP male sounds found inside the assets1.pk3 file. I did the same thing for Maul's jump sounds because that stupid Tiger growl just didn't fit.

If you open the assets1.pk3 file with WINZIP or WINRAR, you can copy any of the sounds from any of the characters in the game.

Eldritch
10-02-2002, 12:17 PM
The stock sounds provided for models made by Raven (any of them) just won't fit with Old Ben. To be as authentic as possible, you'd have to find or make your own sounds.

-Anakin

shaolin_blade
10-02-2002, 12:22 PM
There's a fine line between authenticity and playability. If the sounds are too annoying or distracting, they can take away from the playability of the model.

Custom Taunts are fine, but pain, jump and death sounds are played a lot during a fight and shouldn't be too obtrusive, like they are in the Dooku model.

Eldritch
10-02-2002, 12:32 PM
I agree - so long as the sounds aren't obtrusive, they're fine. But I was only stating that the default sounds wouldn't do the model justice.

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
10-03-2002, 03:40 PM
Here are some of the sounds I'm thinking of using for the ben model, let me know what you think and if you have any more ideas on sounds.

bensounds.zip (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/bensounds.zip)

On the model itself, I may have some new screenshots later today, or tomorrow if I don't post them today.

kenad
10-03-2002, 04:01 PM
Remeber to rename tuant4 :)

Great work

Thanks for everything

KevinCoyle
10-03-2002, 04:05 PM
Right, I'll have to rename them all anyway before I put them in the pk3

-s/<itzo-
10-03-2002, 04:29 PM
the sounds are great i don't know about taunt2 though. maybe because theres music in the background. also in the movies doesn't he say " may the force be with you " or " use the force. " i haven't seen it for a while it just pops up in my head when i think about ben. umm... the morgan model taunt uses " may the force be with you " and it kinda sounds like him. i don't know its your call do whatever pleases you.

Professor Snape
10-03-2002, 04:36 PM
sweet taunts dude! DO u think it will be released this week????

KevinCoyle
10-03-2002, 04:47 PM
I'm hoping it will be ready for release this weekend, but I'm not going to rush it. It all depends on how it turns out, if I have any major problems with it, and how much time I have to work on it.

keo718
10-03-2002, 05:08 PM
Just wanted to say great job on the model. If you need anyone to beta and check for errors, I'd be glad to help.

KevinCoyle
10-03-2002, 08:07 PM
Ok, here are the screenshots...

Unrobed Ben (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benunrobedfull.jpg)
Robed Ben (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benrobedfull.jpg) Ben with hood up (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benhoodup.jpg)
Ben's Face (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benfacefull.jpg)

frendon
10-03-2002, 08:13 PM
WOW :eek: !!! they look great, but i would like the hood to cover a little more of his head, so you are almost done right? what's left to be done?

rut-wa jodar
10-03-2002, 08:14 PM
Great looking model keep up the good work. can`t wait to see this beauty ingame.:thumbs1:

-s/<itzo-
10-03-2002, 08:15 PM
how about ben shirtless nah just playing. looks excellent man, one of the models out there with a complete package. the varieties of outfits was a great idea. can't wait.

KevinCoyle
10-03-2002, 08:18 PM
rut-wa jodar, read my post two posts up from the one with the screenshots.

Ha, well I guess you did. I noticed you edited your message

-s/<itzo-
10-03-2002, 08:23 PM
are in-game screen shots coming up??? looks great i want to see if its the same in the game.

frendon
10-03-2002, 08:23 PM
Originally posted by frendon
what's left to be done?

Thanks KevinCoyle is always great to be ignored!!

keo718
10-03-2002, 08:36 PM
I have a comment Kevin. The hood up version needs some adjustment. The hood in the back should flap over, as opposed to how it looks now. I'll try to find a pic for you.

edit: Also, with the "benrobedfull" the hood needs alot more detail.

keo718
10-03-2002, 08:49 PM
Im trying to show you all angles. I'll find some from the back.

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/A_New_Hope&image=TBOFF-ANH-vcap.jpg&img=48&tt=

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/A_New_Hope&image=ben.jpg&img=32&tt=

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/A_New_Hope&image=ob118.jpg&img=32&tt=

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/A_New_Hope&image=ob16.jpg&img=&tt=

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/A_New_Hope&image=ob1-3vcap.jpg&img=16&tt=

http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Classic_Trilogy/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi/A_New_Hope&image=lukeben1.jpg&img=16&tt=

http://www.padawansguide.com/promo/pages/obiwan2_promo.htm

keo718
10-03-2002, 08:57 PM
Copy and paste the first link.

This is the back and side view. Notice how it comes over his shoulders.

http://www.geocities.com/eo718/Obi-Wan_robe.jpg

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Episode_1/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi&image=vanity-4.jpg&img=16&tt=


http://cgi.theforce.net/theforce/multimedia/imageFolio.cgi?action=view&link=Images/Episode_1/Characters/Obi-Wan_Kenobi&image=swig206.jpg&img=&tt=

http://www.padawansguide.com/promo/pages/obiwan3_promo.htm

EDIT: For the hood up from the back perspective, consult Toonces' Sidious model.

KevinCoyle
10-03-2002, 09:02 PM
Sorry Frendon, forgot about that last part (I've already made the change to the hood as you suggested). Basically my schedule is to allow people to comment on the model tonight so I can make adjustments later tonight. Tomorrow, I'll continue working out flaws in the model until everything is as correct as I can get it. Then I need to do the CTF skins. For those, I just plan to change his robe color, so they shouldn't take very long. By Saturday, I hope to start getting the model in game so it will be in the game on Sunday, then fix any problems that might occur in-game. Depending on whether I have any problems getting the model in game or not, the model should be out by Sunday night or Monday night.

Thanks for the images Keo, I'll see what I can do

frendon
10-03-2002, 09:07 PM
don't worry about it KevinCoyle, thanks a lot for doing this model it looks great can't wait to have the old Vader/ObiWan duel in my pc, if you have it by sunday or monday it would rock but don't try to rush it see what everybody has to say as you have always done , thanks again

keo718
10-03-2002, 09:13 PM
Also Kevin, I think the robe sleeves need to open up more around the hands(again, you can refer to Toonces Sidious model).

Eldritch
10-03-2002, 09:20 PM
I wouldn't open up the sleeves too much more then they already are. If you do, it might end up looking like the sleeves on Toonces Sidious/Palpatine model... with the sleeves defying gravity pointing straight back instead of hanging down. Since there is no way to animate fabric in the JO engine, I suggest not making the sleeves so big they look ridiculous (as is the case in Toonces otherwise excellent model).

-Anakin

keo718
10-03-2002, 09:34 PM
If you do, it might end up looking like the sleeves on Toonces Sidious/Palpatine model... with the sleeves defying gravity pointing straight back instead of hanging down.

KevinCoyle: Yeah, when I said refer to it, I didn't mean to make it look the same. When you look through the reference pics, you'll see that the robe sleeves are indeed baggier than you have them. It's your call though as to whether or not you want to change it.

Toonces
10-03-2002, 09:55 PM
You should have seen how disasterous it was trying to "trick" the skeleton in an attempt to animate the sleves on Palp. Even using some of the lowest possible weight settings it looked horendous.

The only way to solve the problem is to either have gravity defying sleeves, or model the sleeves as close to the skeleton as possible.

KevinCoyle
10-03-2002, 11:23 PM
Keo, How's this? I modified the hood (On the hood-down version only so far) to the screenshots you sent. Look any better?

BenRobedfull2.jpg (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benrobedfull2.jpg)

keo718
10-03-2002, 11:36 PM
Yes, it is better. The textures however need to be more crisp or the shading more distinctive.

Edit: Kevin, you may want to model that hood in there instead.

frendon
10-05-2002, 02:55 AM
BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!! BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Eldritch
10-05-2002, 03:07 AM
Wasn't that a little unnecessary, Frendon? This thread isn't that far down...

-s/<itzo-
10-05-2002, 03:12 AM
what an improvement. much better kevin.

frendon
10-05-2002, 12:16 PM
Originally posted by JEDI_Anakin_S
Wasn't that a little unnecessary, Frendon? This thread isn't that far down...
so what? i want it to be the first in the page what's wrong with that? BUMP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

KevinCoyle
10-05-2002, 01:26 PM
Question for Toonces, when you segmented the emperor model, how did you work out the segmentation of the knees?, or did you not segment those parts at all. I don't believe I've ever seen the emporer or the Tuscan Raider cut along the knee when using dismemberment

Padawan_7
10-05-2002, 02:00 PM
I believe its done by segmenting only at the knee joint, thus allowing the leg to fall free from the robes when dismembered.

mariners2001
10-05-2002, 02:35 PM
Kevin,

sorry if you've already gone over this, but are you planning on adding facial animations? that'd definitely top it off.

Toonces
10-05-2002, 02:48 PM
I actually segmented him a little under the pelvis. The whole area from the pelvis down to the floor became the hips. I also made caps for just the legs. So when he gets dismembered at one of the legs just his boots fall out. I'll make a little diagram if you wanna see it.

Professor Snape
10-06-2002, 11:56 AM
bump

KevinCoyle
10-06-2002, 01:57 PM
I've fixed the hood and worked on making the textures sharper so they're not so blurry. I think it looks better now, I don't have any screenshots yet but will soon.

I've got unrobed ben in the game and he looks good for the most part except for the legs, I'm having trouble getting the robe around the legs to deform correctly. I'd appreciate any tips from anyone who's had experience with weighting long robes or dresses.

As far as facial animations go, I think I want to get the model in game and release it first, then maybe I'll release a second version will facial animations.

Enjoi9187
10-06-2002, 02:15 PM
try studying the emperor model, that seems to work quite nicely:vsd: :vsd: :vsd: :holosid:

KevinCoyle
10-06-2002, 03:49 PM
I'd have to have a copy of the original .max file for the emperor (if it was made in 3dsmax) to see how the vertices are weighted

Toonces
10-06-2002, 06:20 PM
Shoot me an e-mail Kevin, I'd be more than happy to send you the max file. What version of max are you using?

toonces@drivingcatstudios.com

Oh, the facial animations are easy, that's also setup in the max file, really simple to do

KevinCoyle
10-06-2002, 07:28 PM
Just sent the e-mail, thanks man! I really appreciate it.

Toonces
10-06-2002, 07:33 PM
heh, I'm just happy to help :) Rigging anything out of the ordinary in JKII is a pain in the neck, hopefully it'll be a good refrence for you.

Anyway, he's on his way

SpYzEr
10-08-2002, 12:14 PM
Bump Can't wait :D :D

KevinCoyle
10-08-2002, 02:02 PM
Here are a few Screenshots of Ben in the game, ignore the gloves he's wearing, I forgot to texture his hand before I put him in the game, so I just slaped on Kyle's textures for now. I'll skin his hands properly after I fix a few animation problems.

BenIngame 1 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/beningame1.jpg)

BenIngame2 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/beningame2.jpg)


Thanks to Toonces for lending me his emporer model, I've managed to fix most of the problems with the legs. The only problem left is that his boots clip through the front of the robe when you view him running forward. It seems no matter what I try it doesn't change much. I noticed Major Clod's Tusken Raider has a similar problem. I think the only reason the emporer doesn't have this problem is because his robe is much wider at the bottom, but Ben starts looking funny if I make his robe to wide. Here some screenshots of the leg problem in both Ben and Major Clod's tusken model.

BenRunning1 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benrun1.jpg)

BenRunning2 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/benrun2.jpg)

Tusken1 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/tusken1.jpg)

tusken2 (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/tusken2.jpg)

I'd appreciate any ideas that any of you may have.

You'll also notice his hands clip the sleeves a little also, but I don't think that will be a problem to fix, I just haven't gotten around to it yet because I'm still focused on fixing the legs.

I'm also considering removing the modeled tabbards for skinned ones, the modeled ones really don't look right and clip way too much when he moves, but I'd like to get some other opinions before I proceed. Here are a few reasons why I think this will benefit the model

1. Old ben's tabards are much thinner and looser than the Jedi from the newer movies, they pretty much lay flat on his robe except when he walks, and since clothing can't be animated in JK2 anyway, thats kind of makes it pointless anyway.

2.because his tabards are so thin unlike the other jedi, the robe behind them shows through too easily which really looks bad in game.

Here is a screenshot


bentabarderror (http://www.babylonius.com/invasion/jedimodels/bentabarderror.jpg)

I may be able to fix this but it's going to take quite some time, I've already spent a lot of time trying to get it to work to no avail. The model looked better in 3d max with modelled tabards but I think ingame it will look better with skinned ones, but let me know what you all think.

Darth Vigrid
10-08-2002, 02:57 PM
Ok, KevinCoyle, here's my two cents on the robe issue. If you look at the Mon Mothma model in-game you will notice that the movements of the legs and robe are less extreme than the other characters. The legs do not move apart as much when she is running. I have been able to get this effect with my Joruus model. I weight the legs and feet to their respective bones, then I select all the vertices of the legs and feet and weight them 50% (.5) to the pelvis. This restricts the movement of the robe and feet and they don't move around as much. It usually solves all clipping issues. Hope this helps.

KevinCoyle
10-08-2002, 06:23 PM
Cool, I'll have to try that out, I'll let you know how it turns out. Toonces Emporer model had the back of the robe weighted almost completly to the pelvis, which works well for that model because it gives the appearence that his robe is dragging along behind him because it is very large. I was planning I doing the same for Bens outer robed but his inner robe is to close to his legs for that to look right

Eldritch
10-08-2002, 06:29 PM
I have no problem with you tossing out the modeled tabards. They detract from the model if they clip like they're doing. I would like to see more detail in the brown turtleneck, it just looks like flat brown... doesn't really look like cloth, and it looks out of place. It's too bright and shiny. Try to get the texture to look like wool or some other heavy fabric perhaps?

-Anakin

Toonces
10-08-2002, 06:38 PM
Yeah, that's a good idea you got there about the feet Darth, I didn't try anything like that for Palp, I should have though

For the robe version it might be worth segmenting the inner skirt, to a front and back segment, and removing the back half from the robed version with a .surf file.

KevinCoyle
10-08-2002, 07:15 PM
It worked! Thanks Darth Vigrid, good idea.


I'll see what I can do about the turtleneck. I also need to work on the robe textures more. That is one of the other aspects of the model I didn't like after getting him in game. In levels with bright lighting, his robes appear more like plastic than cloth, especially in the death star level. I'll work on the textures to make them appear more like cloth and darken them so they don't shine too much.

Samurai-X
10-08-2002, 10:34 PM
hey guys, i see ur testing the model ingame already!! looks cool
so the model nears its completion....

*off topic*
do any of u guys want to film famous duels from starwars, like luke-vader, ben-vader, anakin-dooku??
if so, email me
:duel:

keo718
10-08-2002, 11:41 PM
Kevin, any shots of the hood?

žith Lord
10-09-2002, 04:30 AM
Kevin I have a suggestion,

its about the lightness of his inner robes. you see the problem I have is how the color white looks ingame. the lighting of the level makes the color white look almost fluoresent, glowing, it was one of my main problems with great models like Padme by Tetsuo and the Clone trooper. Im sure you could fix this by adding alittle more color to the robes.

just my two cents. great model.

Padawan_7
10-09-2002, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by žith Lord
Kevin I have a suggestion,

its about the lightness of his inner robes. you see the problem I have is how the color white looks ingame. the lighting of the level makes the color white look almost fluoresent, glowing, it was one of my main problems with great models like Padme by Tetsuo and the Clone trooper.

Yes, žith Lord brings out a very good point. You don't want the inner robes to glow in maps with alot of lighting (i.e. the Death Star).

-s/<itzo-
10-09-2002, 11:04 PM
hey kev its good to hear you fix the leg problem. i guess theres only a few touch ups left. so i'm thinkin is there a release date??????

KevinCoyle
10-10-2002, 12:05 AM
Well, I thought I fixed the problem... When I tried it before after I applied Darth Vigrid's suggestion, the robe looked good, it didn't split anywhere and the legs didn't show through, I noticed the feet doing something funny but I thought it was just a small weighting problem. Unfortunatly, it's not a small problem. The legs don't deform right at all when weight 50% to the pelvis, and 50% to their respective bones, they skrink when the bone moves and huge spikes pop out in all directions and looks horrible. If I can't fix the problem soon I may post a screenshot to show the problem I'm having incase anyone else may know what it is.

Hellfire Jedi
10-13-2002, 08:50 PM
if u dont mind my asking when will this be done

Darth Vigrid
10-13-2002, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by KevinCoyle
Well, I thought I fixed the problem... When I tried it before after I applied Darth Vigrid's suggestion, the robe looked good, it didn't split anywhere and the legs didn't show through, I noticed the feet doing something funny but I thought it was just a small weighting problem. Unfortunatly, it's not a small problem. The legs don't deform right at all when weight 50% to the pelvis, and 50% to their respective bones, they skrink when the bone moves and huge spikes pop out in all directions and looks horrible. If I can't fix the problem soon I may post a screenshot to show the problem I'm having incase anyone else may know what it is.

That's very strange. I haven't had any problems like that.

Eldritch
10-16-2002, 12:49 PM
Kevin, what's the status? Have you fixed the problem? Are there any updated screenies?

-Anakin

KevinCoyle
10-16-2002, 03:43 PM
No luck on fixing the problem yet, but I've been busy the past few days and haven't had a chance to work on it. Hopefully I'll fix the problem soon. I still have a few ideas to try.

Eldritch
10-16-2002, 05:05 PM
Thanks. Was just wondering. Take your time.

12thMonkey
10-16-2002, 05:14 PM
LBuRNa that is one very sweet looking avatar you got there.


:D

Eldritch
10-16-2002, 06:37 PM
LBurna, do you have SivyB's permission to use that avatar? He just made it, and it is nice, but i'm just making sure...

Hellfire Jedi
10-16-2002, 06:44 PM
Figures people like u guys get dragged into a lame discussion like taht in a good thread then its closed plz get back on topic i doubt they would close this but u guys will start going and going
back to the model
this one is the BEST Vahl's anakin was good too but seems a tad bit too buff and the face here looks AWESOME nothing more nothing less

Eldritch
10-16-2002, 07:08 PM
It's not a lame discussion. It would've been resolved in 2 posts - his and mine. This is an 'A'-'B' discussion so 'C' your way out.

-s/<itzo-
10-16-2002, 11:00 PM
jedi_anakin_s, sivy b is teaching me how to create custom avatars. for now since he changed his avatar sivy b is letting me use his old avatar. i ask him if he wanted to get credit for this awesome work he said no i din't have to.

everybody this is sivy b's avatar. so don't get it twisted. in a week or so i'll have my own.

Eldritch
10-17-2002, 12:59 AM
That's what I figured. Sivy is very nice, and makes good avatars to boot.

-s/<itzo-
10-17-2002, 01:31 AM
hey jedi_anakin_s, how about this one, i made it. what you think.

Eldritch
10-17-2002, 10:04 AM
Not bad... it looks a little squished, though (out of proportion)... did you shrink it correctly?

keo718
10-20-2002, 06:54 PM
Bump

Eldritch
10-22-2002, 09:50 AM
Updates?

KevinCoyle
10-23-2002, 04:36 PM
Sorry guys, Just been busy for a while, hopefully I'll have an update this weekend

Padawan_7
10-29-2002, 02:10 PM
Any updates KevinCoyle?