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View Full Version : The REAL problem with Multiplayer.


Arceri
09-04-2002, 11:02 AM
Alright, so alot of people have been saying how Jedi Knight 2 is starting to fade due to the lack of interest in Multiplayer, or what have you. The answer is yes, obviously some are leaving, most are leaving for reasons not really related to the game, which include mostly school and work.

But many people say that the problem with multiplayer itself is 1.4 or lack of varity. The fact 1.4 is less than a perfect patch means that people don't really like the game itself anymore. But with all the excellent mods recently, this really changes the game itself. Examples like Promod, Jedimod, and the upcoming Team Assault, Masters of the Force, ect. All of which have the proffessional look, feel, and fun. So the question is: If these mods that are out and are in production are helping revive the game, why does it continue to have problems?


The answer is: Servers and ignorant admins. What good are mods if not many servers run them? Sure lots of servers run Jedimod, but most of them have personal favorites, which alot of people don't really like. Then there's the normal 1.4 servers of which they have really stupid settings (like super force regen and very selective force powers). Then there's the selective servers on personal favorite mods, or maps or what have you. Then there's the ones that require you to download something like a saber hilt. But don't allow downloads. Then there's the ones with admins that hate getting beat, so they get kick/ban happy. Also there's the ones that run older verisons, hoping to bring back the old days.

In short, the fact is most servers offer TOO much variety, that if you like one mod or gameplay type, you're basically stuck to one server, IF you can find that one server. The problem with multiplayer is the fact there's no variety left, server admins seem to not really care what their players want, more like what they want. I mean how many servers can you really find that run the games you like. I personally would love to see a promod beta 2 CTF saber only with FULL force power, and more of them. But I've tried looking for them, I found one, with 500 ping on ADSL. It's shame, personally. There's several Jedimod servers, but most of them aren't up to date, and the ones that are have really funky settings that make the game almost unplayable.

So basically, I see that as the big problem bringing down multiplayer. You might say all games with mods have variety. Sure variety is good, but not variety in-which every server you play on is like playing a completely different game. Hopefully one of these days server admins will actually pay attention to their servers and start keeping their servers up to date with what people are playing.

I'm not saying all admins do what I've stated above, but I'm saying there's just too little servers to play whatever it is you want. Without changing the whole part of the game. I mean how many times have you joined a server just to leave cuz you're disguisted with the settings, or the fact it's download only but download isn't turned on (I really love that..).

Anyway, that's my theory.

CenturiOn
09-04-2002, 11:11 AM
well first of all

id nerf saber throw

the secondary attack would be used like primary attack but enable other new saber moves

(attack+back=backstab,sec.attack+bak would give another special move)double the number of saber moves!!!!!!!!!!

that would really enhace gameplay

Sith Maximus
09-04-2002, 11:35 AM
I feel your pain. I too felt this way not long ago. But I cured it by starting my own server.

I run Jedimod v1.2, thats another mod problem...not enough people update, with all of the moves that were removed or toned down in the game put back in. I run lots of custom maps and skins and will add any that a player asks for. I also switch gametypes for what the players want. Last night someone on the fly said "Can we have guns...", thirty seconds later we were in a gun fight. Then the same guys said he wished we had more players. So I added in a few platoons of stormtroopers!

I think one of the main problems today is that too many admins do not know how to run a server correctly. They do not know how to set it up and then are unable or unwilling to make a change on the fly to give the players what they want.They are also babies that hate to lose.

I only nerf lightning on my server because if I do not then it will crash when four or five people go crazy with it, my maxrate is on the low side, but everything else is on.

Also many admins do not state the rules to the players, they just kick them when they get po at them. I run a program that states the rules every few minutes to remind players what they can and cannot do. No saber = no attack, no chatkilling,bow before a duel...these are the main rules. I always give people a few chances to learn the rules before they get punished.

But even if I ban them it is only for the night. I don not have a large ban list the executes with the program. Thats foolish. Many of my best regulars are people that were kicked for breaking the rules. Thy come back later or the next night and are surprised that I abide by what I say, and are humble.

I think as a community JK2 has alot to be desired. Too many "rabid" fans have complained to Raven about the moves in this game and as a result it has suffered. Many clans are "no force freaks"...what the heck is that all about? No force play? You might as well be a po dwarf in a fantasy game. A jedi is a jedi not because he carries a lightsaber but because he uses the force!

Plus I can never ever remember being called a "whore" in Quake when I killed a pack of people with the rocket launcher. Or in RTCW when I took out a bunker with a few grenades. This game is full of some of the biggest babies I have ever seen.

If you would like a decent game of Jedimod then come over to Crazy Yoda (Jmod v1.2)...we will try to give you what you want.

Kstar__2
09-04-2002, 11:42 AM
i think that variety is good! there will always be a server that you like, when everything is the same, than it will be boring

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 11:46 AM
I understand what all of you are getting at but the problem isn't the Mods. The problem is the Patch. V1.04 sparked the Mod invasion because so few were happy with V1.04.

ProMod is less of a Mod and more like a Patch. It brought back the basic saber combat rules that people can agree upon. That is why people like it. You see many ProMod servers and most of them are running vanilla ProMod. There is one that I know of that runs a weak version of it but.......whatever point being that Raven screwed things up when they made sabers too weak and blocking too high.

Almost all servers have Blocking toned down a bit or a lot, and saber damage a little or a lot higher. Forget using sabers against weapons in V1.04 because not only are they weak but they are slow. ProMod fixed this by making sabers strong against players holding weapons and by increasing foorspeed while swinging in any stance.

My point.

Get Raven to make saber strong useful and effective again, and you won't have this ridiculous enviroment where every server is different and every ladder is vanilla.

v1.04 did more damage then it fixed, think of this patch as a patch that helps you quit smoking by giving you lung cancer. Sure you stop smoking, but now you're dieing.

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by kstar__2
i think that variety is good! there will always be a server that you like, when everything is the same, than it will be boring

have you lost you mind!! The fun isn't in "gee I wonder if my saber will be strong or not in this server?"

The fun is in the game play, the action, the killing!! Make the game fast and fun and BAM your done! The game rules again!!

Kstar__2
09-04-2002, 03:49 PM
well i have my blocking way up, becouse than u get a more movie like feel (i only play lightsaber only games)

FatalStrike
09-04-2002, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by kstar__2
well i have my blocking way up, becouse than u get a more movie like feel (i only play lightsaber only games)

:eek:

For a movie like feel, rent a movie. Otherwise lower you blocking and play saber boxing like the rest of us. Stick and move, float like a .....you get the point.

benswayzie
09-04-2002, 11:07 PM
i agree with ur post good paragraph.

KnightHawk420
09-04-2002, 11:22 PM
If you truly want a movie like feel, but don't care about the extras like duel sabers, neato taunts and the like. Then give promod a try.

It's as real as it gets.

But if some of you just get flat out owned every game don't feel bad your just not trained as well. :)

Promod takes actual skill to play well. Some of you who had envisioned a way that the game should play and have played accordingly yourself all this time, will love this mod. Those of you who depended on exploits and the like will not like this mod.

Want to do nothing but lunge at your opponenet? Fine,, just better hopes he doesn't begin predicting when your gonna do it and step to your side. Or even worse simply block your lunge dead on, then counter with a normal slash. Ahh yes wanna whore me with your 2 hit combo, please by all means come try. :)

The reality is now, people who used to whore certain combos will now have to get alot more dynamic about it. For instance a Red DFA may be a one hit killer, but if you miss, I could very easily kill you with 1 hit as well.

Want to medium DFA over and over and over? Sure go for it, I encourage it, it will only make my frag count higher.

Well this only covers some of the realities of how promod is different. It's simply a different combat system all together, one entirely based on skill, timing, speed. Not luck, skill, luck, timing, speed, luck.

Luc Solar
09-05-2002, 02:57 AM
Yeah...I'm really hoping to get to play more on Promod-servers.

But don't get discouraged if you get beaten at first. You'll get the hang of it...I think. :)


Here's what happened in my very first promod-duel:

* I bow and attack instantly executing a yellow finisher in the opponents face!

* He runs underneath me and pulls a backstab

* Luc[Ph34r Me!]Solar dies....a truly epic battle that lasted for approximately 0,5 seconds

It took some time to get my $hit together (and stop laughing)after that loss, but after a while...I managed to last quite a few seconds! Yay! :D

<|DLS|>Darth Fett
09-07-2002, 02:40 PM
:fett: Man i luv Multiplayer :fett:

Darth Vitruvio
09-07-2002, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Arceri
In short, the fact is most servers offer TOO much variety, that if you like one mod or gameplay type, you're basically stuck to one server, IF you can find that one server. The problem with multiplayer is the fact there's no variety left, server admins seem to not really care what their players want, more like what they want.

I was reading Arceri's article on the problem with multiplayer on Jedi Outcast and I came across this contradiction. Don't get me wrong, Aceri does have a point and I found the article to be pretty good. But, I just thought I should point it out in case somebody else finds it and tries to use it as an excuse for ridicule. Anyway, rock on, and I hear you buddy.


-Vitruvio

Homosexual Ewok
09-08-2002, 01:28 AM
Finding a Master level (7) Full Force duel server with no powers Nerfed these days is quite a challenge.
There is maybe 1 for every 10-15 NF/Nerfed Force servers out there.

The QuakeSh1t servers and clan STD server (when it is running duel not FFA) are about the only places I can play with a decent ping (>100).

This kind of blows because you pretty much play the same people over and over.

razorace
09-08-2002, 04:35 AM
Whoooo! MotF has been called cool! Yes!

Ok I'm done. :D I'd comment on the wide varity of server settings running but I've grown tired of people just whining about the game instead of playing or modding it.

Anyway, back to Masters of the Force work....

Razor Ace

sexcellent
09-09-2002, 02:23 AM
no no no. the REAL problem with multiplayer is that the competition aspect is very limited. it needs to be more team based... jedi v merc v sith and etc. i hated multiplayer, until there were jedi v merc servers. now the only problem is that the jedi v merc mode doesnt keep a score for the two teams, jedi and merc.

A major problem i have with the mutliplayer is the whole "spawning" thing after you die. i really wish that there were rounds like in counter-striker where the last team standing wins the round. the spawning thing makes the game to sloppy and brings a lack of organization and real competition.

i think there is a mod coming out that will make the game more team based where you can chose to be diff characters, like a merc, sniper, jedi, etc. until that comes out, or at least a mod that keeps jedi v merc v sith scores...
people are going to get bored REAL QUICK with jedi outcast multi player. thank God for all the modellers out there that keep the game more interesting. if it werent for them... there would probably be more people playing jedi knight 1, than 2!

Sam
09-09-2002, 02:38 AM
Yea that would rock like a survival mode or team survival mode

razorace
09-09-2002, 03:08 AM
I like the way people talk about Mods that they have no clue if they actual exist or not.

Jedi Spy
09-09-2002, 05:39 AM
Cmon guys, with anymore whine u could start your own off-licence.

I like the comments about how to fairly run a server but i find this unlikely coming from sith max because of the way he persecutes me for a few random comments :P but none the less if he runs his server like that i would play there :P

There is no point in bad mouthing the game on this forum where new people come to see what its like before getting it/playing it online. That just doesnt do any favours for the community

At the end of the day we all play this game alot and we are even posting on a forum dedicated to the game.

Its a great game thar we all enjoy and regardless of minor flaws we wont stop playing it :P

Advertise it, don't put it down

/Spy

Homeboy
09-09-2002, 10:06 AM
I agree with most said here.
1.04 just leaves too much to desired.
So we need a killer mod that EVERYONE (well, almost) plays.

What I'd like to see is a team based "ProJediMod"...
Also with Jedi vs Sith vs Merc as an option.

Because I like all 3 modes/mods very much.
Promod is competitive
Jedimod has lots of cool stuff
Jedi vs Sith vs Merc is very original and great for teams

And they don't interfere with each other, really.
So if the modders could work together, "ProJediMod" would be counter-strike for JO! I hope.

ArtifeX
09-09-2002, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by Arceri
...I mean how many servers can you really find that run the games you like. I personally would love to see a promod beta 2 CTF saber only with FULL force power, and more of them. But I've tried looking for them, I found one, with 500 ping on ADSL...


What are you pinging to the official ProMod beta 2 server? It's located in Dallas, TX and is on an OC48 connection, so it should ping well to anyone in the continental US. I usually run FFA because it allows the most people to play and get in some private duelling if they wish, but I've run CTF and TFFA several times.

Anyone want me to run the different gametypes on a schedule? I could run CTF on say, Mondays and TFFA on Tuesdays if enough people want that.

If I'm in the server some time, just hop in and ask for a gametype change and I'd be happy to oblige. You can also ask VeX *ASC*, as he has rcon privileges as well.

Haemon
09-09-2002, 08:50 PM
What we need is a really good mod, like promod and jedimod combined, and get it on a ton of servers with downloads allowed so people just starting will get it and play that instead of the original game. In Half-Life TFC is way more popular than the regular Half-Life multiplayer because people got it out there. If Promod was on more servers then people would stop going to the regular servers and eventually they would phaze out.

I can't say how much I like Promod. I was on a server with about 5 guys and 1 was a lightning spammer(didn't get a kill without lightning) and he could barely touch the rest of us because he was dead before any real damage was done.

Jedi Spy
09-09-2002, 08:54 PM
that idea is nice but not at all viable :P im sure u couldnt get everyone to download this mod unless it was raven/lucasarts supported

zerowingzero
09-09-2002, 09:11 PM
The good thing about promod is that it's so small, still under 1 mb in beta 2, conbineing mods would hamper people who have to dl it.

What would really help if Raven made promod an offical patch...

razorace
09-09-2002, 09:49 PM
and farther fragment the community? Just because something is "official" it doesn't mean people will run it on the servers. Besides, ProMod has had a mixed reaction with players. The Forums seem mainly positive, but there haven't been many servers changing to it.

Plus, making a Mod "official" is a huge pain in the ass for a developer/publisher, and, frankly, I don't think LucasArts is interested.

Jedi Spy
09-09-2002, 09:51 PM
yea well good point i cant really think of a solution i hate how developers always drop games when profits drop :( but thats business i suppose...at least lucasarts are not as bad for it as microprose and vie :P

Homosexual Ewok
09-09-2002, 10:26 PM
Originally posted by ArtifeX


What are you pinging to the official ProMod beta 2 server? It's located in Dallas, TX

I gotta give this a try...
<------- San Antonio TX :D

Revan Bakr'
09-09-2002, 10:36 PM
personally, and this might be just me, but I find that a lot of servers don't work. Tries to connect, fails. Also, the darkside servers are good, but a little too good, a moderately skilled player can't keep up. The jedimod servers have too many people with tiny-scaled models or hugely-scaled models. Pure servers, cheap players, etc., all these things are problems. Another problem is 1.04. i dominated with 1.02 medium style, but the new patches made it much harder and less fun. However, no 1.04, no Jedimod.

The most fun I have now is playing LAN or against bots. What's that say about Internet servers? The admins just don't keep up with the downloads. I want many things to happen for this game, more TC's, etc., but the people who can make it happen are negligent.

Revan Bakr'
09-09-2002, 10:40 PM
One thing i would like to see is more gameplay modes. Maybe: Co-op, 2 v. 1 duels, Wars(games where it's organized clans or people that play maps as teams and the winner of the map won the territory, so a tournament is created. Kind of like the C & C World Domination Tour.

Miggs the Just
09-09-2002, 10:48 PM
I think we should wait and see. The Saga gametype has been figured out, lets just see what that does for the community.

ASk
09-11-2002, 09:14 AM
For SAGA to get done right, we need to work together. Right now, the major work is to do it more customisable and fix the bugs. However since every coder can decide that he will add this "special" feature, the result will be a total mess.

Because of this, the SAGA work needs to be coordinated. And the accent is on releasing a mod that fill follow the specifications to the point.

Xabien
09-11-2002, 10:56 AM
I dont care how many patches and mods are released... The problem with multiplayer (for me anyway) is that the people who i play with are idiots.

Since this game was released I have been practising red style saber combat.. I have been playing on the Gamesdomain saber only CTF servers since I started too.. I didnt turn into a DFA whore in 1.02, I didnt turn into a backslash whore in 1.03 and I havent turned into a kick whore in 1.04.. I stuck with red style... Now when I play on the GD CTF Saber only servers and I get the flag, I have to run past about 5 people who are using mind trick trying to kick me off a side or some wannabe cool guy with his saber off who just keeps jumping at me... Ididnt spend all that time learning heavy style saber just for some lazy git to kick me off with no effort at all. I am not getting any help cos my entire team is back at our base having a "chat" and if I ask them to help me I get a mouth full of crap about how they dont want to play JK2... its stupid.

ahh well.. I always tell myself that these are the types of people who will end up in jail :)